Re: [PHP] Persistent flag in memory
Op 2/11/10 7:25 AM, Teus Benschop schreef:
On Thu, 2010-02-11 at 06:46 +, Jochem Maas wrote:
Op 2/11/10 6:34 AM, Teus Benschop schreef:
On Thu, 2010-02-11 at 05:53 +, Jochem Maas wrote:
whatever it is that your trying to do, it sounds like one of two things:
1. you have hosting that is unsuitable for your needs
2. you are tackling the problem incorrectly
at any rate, as far I'm concerned, you should never have a long running
php process via a web server. (obviously this is the point that someone
posts a brilliant use case to prove me wrong ;-)
could you detail what is is you're actuallt trying to do, chances are
people
have:
a. got a better alternative
b. already invented the particular wheel you're trying to build
c. you really do need shell (or even just control panel) access to run a
cron job
What I am trying to achieve is to have a php script run once a minute
and do a few tasks. There are some constraints:
- Users usually install the php application on their local machines, be
it Linux, Windows, or Macintosh.
- The application is defined as needing zero-configuration, i.e. it runs
out of the box.
much too vague. no mention of a webserver ... zero-config and needing to
install
are somewhat mutually exclusive.
I still have the feeling you're using the wrong tool for the job somehow,
I may be wrong or drunk or both ;)
Well, on the web server, this usually would be Apache, though one user
indicated he would use some light httpd instead. Then, of course, yes,
installation is not zero-config, but what I mean is that after
installation no further configuration steps would be needed, e.g. if the
user unpacks a tarball in the web root, it should run straightaway, or
if he does 'apt-get install pacakge', no further configuration would
be needed. I thought therefore that using visitors page requests was a
clever way of initiating starting a php script. At the moment I've got
the following code:
if you're doing all this already in order to facilitate a multi-platform
install ... why not go the extra yard and have the install process setup
a cronjob (or scheduled task, launchd entry, etc, depending on platform)?
$crontable = Database_Cron::getInstance ();
if ($crontable-getFlag ()) die;
$crontable-setFlag ();
ignore_user_abort(true);
set_time_limit(0);
while(1)
{
$log = Database_Logs::getInstance();
$log-log (Minutely maintenance routine started);
.. do some maintenance ...
$log-log (Minutely maintenance routine finished);
sleep(60);
}
of itself this seems like reasonable code, people argue about
the finer details but you seem to be writing clean and tidy stuff.
as such I still don't think this kind of thing belongs in a webserver
process.
I have recently been using daemontools (*nix/bsd compatible daemon management
tools ... also used to manage qmail processes) to actually keep a
long running / perpetual script running ... it's a very robust bit of
kit which takes care of running just one instance of whatever
and restarting it if it happens to die ... very nice, very simple, not
available on Windows (AFAIK) ... and helps to keep this kind
of management logic out of the actual php app.
This uses the mechanism of a sql table in memory, which seems fine for
the moment, since it is volatile and would disappear if the user
restarts his laptop (or if the Amazon cloud reboots ;) - thus next time
the user visits any page, this script would be restarted and do the
maintenance till the user shuts down, and so on. I still have to look
into the other mechanisms of creating a volatile flag.
I think therefore, with my limited experience of PHP, that the above
does well, though improvements are welcome.
I'd think your php is an issue - little bit I've seen suggests you
code diligently, it's merely the vehicle your using to have the script run
perpetually that irks me.
About scripts running forever, I don't see a problem here since most of
the time it sleeps anyway, and when I look in my Ubuntu 9.10 laptop,
doing ps ax gives 194 live processes already, so what does the one
single extra sleeping process matter?
in practice not much on a personal machine - nonetheless it's wasteful
and technically a webserver is unneeded and creates another layer of
complexity and overhead. it does seem rather brittle in terms of how you
have it set up though.
realise that your Ubuntu laptop is *probably* alot more stable, robust when
running a never-ending Apache child [worker] process with mod_php loaded and
executing ... I'd be quite confident that it would be stable and such on my
Mac as well ... but a Windows machine, I wouldn't trust that to do it ...
and keep running reliably (not from the script or the user POV)
it's possible that it's the best you can do given the pratical circumstances
of the users/maintainers of the installations ... but I hazard to say
you 'wrapper' for you perpetual/reaccuring script *might* be a sub-optimal
setup
Re: [PHP] Owner or other; permissions for webpage users
On Thu, 2010-02-11 at 17:01 +1100, clanc...@cybec.com.au wrote: On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:08:42 +1030, james.mcl...@gmail.com (James McLean) wrote: On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 2:51 PM, clanc...@cybec.com.au wrote: I'm basically familiar with the UNIX permissions - 'owner', 'group', or 'other', but I have no real idea how these apply to webpage users under PHP. I know that if I FTP to the server I am the owner, and I think that if I, or anyone else, opens one of my webpages I am 'other'. Almost right. It's UGO, User Group and Other. When you view a PHP page, it's (usually) served by Apache, the process will be owned by a user, usually 'apache'; who is also a member of a group, usually 'apache'. On some systems these users/groups can be 'httpd', 'www-data' etc. When you or I look at a PHP file served from Apache, there is no concept of users/groups/others outside those that apply to the Apache process that served the data. However what I would like to do is assign certain users, who have logged in through a security portal, to 'group', so that they (but not 'others') have permission to write to data files on the site. It's a seperate thing, because once again inside PHP there is no concept of users/groups outside the Apache process itself. It would be up to your PHP code to manage who has access to what, the files will all be read from and written to disk by the Apache process. Thanks. So it is as I feared, and if I want any file to be editable under any circumstances, I have to give write access to 'others'. It is a little surprising that PHP has not made any provision for manipulating users write permissions, as this could provide a little extra protection from malicious users. You can manipulate users write permissions if you're the owner of a file, but what you're asking is to manipulate the user under which PHP is running dynamically. As users and permissions is so integral to the safe working of the system, this would be no easy feat for something that you should be easily able to tackle with some PHP ingenuity. Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
Re: [PHP] HTML5 aside description
On Thu, 2010-02-11 at 01:44 -0500, Robert Cummings wrote: *haha* I've removed w3.org from the recipients list... so onwards to the content below... Jochem Maas wrote: Op 2/10/10 9:08 PM, Robert Cummings schreef: From the editor's draft: The aside element represents a section of a page that consists of content that is tangentially related to the content around the aside element, and which could be considered separate from that content. Such sections are often represented as sidebars in printed typography. The element can be used for typographical effects like pull quotes or sidebars, for advertising, for groups of nav elements, and for other content that is considered separate from the main content of the page. Dear God, please don't suggest it be used for noise like sidebars, advertising, or non related groups of nav elements. Asides are NOT often represented AS sidebars in printed typography, they are often represented IN sidebars of printed typography. This distinction is fundamentally different. I've never read a serious article where suddenly an aside is made where it says: BUY! BUY! BUY! BUY OUR JUNK TODAY!! An aside is tangential to the content (as in the working draft of the spec), this means it is related in some way, usually enriching the information/experience rather than watering it down with nonsense. I beg you to reconsider your wording for this element's description. as an aside, I think I'll wait until there is some general consensus on the actual constructive usage of this sort of tag until I use it - personally I really think this is too vague. the concepts of what is structural, what is semantic and what is style are too mixed up and vague for me to worry, just yet, about the details of these new-fangled HTML5 tags (not mention browser support). @Rob - your browswer compability 'hack' example in another recent thread is a perfect example or the problems we face with trying to delineate between styling and semantics and as such I think I lot of what HTML5 adds is arbitrary and rather vague (the CANVAS and video stuff not withstanding) personally I don't give a hoot - browsers (and more importantly the users, and the various versions they run - and will be running for quite some time) mean that, as fas as I'm concerned, HTML5 and everything it may entail is still a pipe dream. As long as people run IE6 or IE7 (actually any POS browser that doesn't properly attempt to implement current standards) such things as semantically marked up ASIDES (as vague as the concept might) are rather irrelevant to the day to day business of building web sites/applications that accessible/relevant/usable/etc to the general public. I can only somewhat agree with your assessment above. It is true that while many people still use broken browsers like IE6 and IE7; however, this should not completely dissuade us from improving the experience for those users that *do* choose standards compliant browsers. If we ignore those users because we don't see the point in wasting time on the IE* crowd, then we essentially weaken the argument in favour of embracing standards. While IE* Joe, doesn't give a damn about whether his browser supports aside or not, studious Jane really enjoys the enriched experience her browser provides because not only does it understand asides, but it provides a convenient extra facility that extracts them into a browsable list with excerpts taken from the surrounding text for context (inverting the relationship :). Then there's Jenny who's blind, she's listening to the content on the page and hears a little ding go off that indicates there's further information available that she can review-- she can choose to pull it up and listen to it, after which the reader returns to where she left off the original content. Alternatively she may choose not to interrupt the main flow of information, but again, similar to Jane's experience she can listen to each one afterwards in a summarized fashion. This is how serious organizations, and almost certainly Government, will markup their information. Regardless of whether everyone has a browser that supports the information. If the semantic markup improves usability and enriches the information, then it will be used to meet that purpose. PS. from a semantics POV, Robert Cummings is, IMHO, spot on in his assessment - I do enjoy his posts, he's a sharp cookie with plenty to offer and I always enjoy reading his argumentation and opinion! Thanks... You've got me blushing :D Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP I'd say that from what I've heard, Governments aren't that good at getting accessible sites up, so the chances of them using HTML5 semantically, well, the immediate future
Re: [PHP] PHP Manual problems
On Thu, 2010-02-11 at 10:16 +1100, Ross McKay wrote: On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:12:01 -0500, Robert Cummings wrote: I'm doing quite a bit more work in public sector these days. Recently ne department finally did away with IE6 and moved to IE7. Here's what I had to do to accomodate this gotcha: Nothing See, that was tough. Why was it so hard? Because I developed for Firefox/Opera and touched up for IE6, 7, 8 since these are inevitable paths of evolution in the public sector. [...] We work the same way and generally just encounter a bit of swearing and minor CSS rework when we get around to IE6. Otherwise, it's all fine. Working to the standards and then patching for IE6 is easier than working to IE6 and patching for *everything else*. :) Regarding platforms, IMHO the main reason IE6 is so persistent is that it comes with Windows XP. Vista was such a flop that Windows XP is still the base of most SOE/COE distributions both in government and business. Now that Windows 7 is out and shown to be somewhat more worthy, IE6 will be replaced by IE8 in due course as Windows 7 becomes the SOE/COE base. I too am hoping for a switch to more Linux desktops, but I can't see it happening soon at most government / business organisations that deal in Microsoft Office documents until OpenOffice.org can better support the huge range of spottily formatted Office documents out there. That, or everyone moves to Google Docs, or regulations enforce exchange of government documents in OpenDocument formats :) -- Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia The documentation and sample application having failed me, I resort to thinking. This desperate tactic works, and I resolve that problem and go on to the next - Michael Swaine, Programming Paradigms, Dr Dobb's Journal There's a good reason for OpenOffice having some difficulties with MS Office documents. Back when MS rushed through getting their document standard ratified by ISO (which itself is a whole other story) they didn't explain all the details quite as well as they might have. Later on, MS found they were having some difficulty following their own 'standard' and so altered it in various ways in Office2007. Needless to say, ISO weren't too happy when MS asked if they could just 'change the specs' for their file format, and quite rightly refused to do so. In short, this means that there is a MS ISO standard that MS is the only one not trying to follow, and software like OpenOffice is left to reverse engineering the format again. Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
Re: [PHP] problems with permissions or getting access to a file
On 11 February 2010 09:31, Pat patrick.j.r...@gmail.com wrote: Richard Quadling wrote: On 10 February 2010 16:31, Pat patrick.j.r...@gmail.com wrote: hi all having trouble here with a site that I am hosting on go-daddy I want to keep my php and my images apart so to do this I have the base directory which contains the php scripts. On the directory above that I have my photos stored in /photos when I run my scripts I get the following: time -4 hours1265815323 *Warning*: filemtime() [function.filemtime http://www.patrickrice.net/tomdcam/function.filemtime]: stat failed for testPanasonicCamMotion20100201022429140.jpg in */home/content/j/a/c/jackcards/html/tomdcam/MotionCamLast1Hours.php* on line *16* 1265815323 *Warning*: filemtime() [function.filemtime http://www.patrickrice.net/tomdcam/function.filemtime]: stat failed for testPanasonicCamMotion20100201022429140.jpg in */home/content/j/a/c/jackcards/html/tomdcam/MotionCamLast1Hours.php* on line *28* 0 time -4 hours1265815323 *Warning*: filemtime() [function.filemtime http://www.patrickrice.net/tomdcam/function.filemtime]: stat failed for testPanasonicCamMotion20100201022619570.jpg in */home/content/j/a/c/jackcards/html/tomdcam/MotionCamLast1Hours.php* on line *16 *_The script is the following below _from running this script, I keep getting this error, now when I copy this script in to the directory photo where the photos are stored, the script displays the images with no problems leaving me think that the issue is with the permissions, I have modified the pre-emptions to give all access as a test and still problems. Anyone got any Ideas?? Thanks in advance. Pat read() only returns the filename, not the full path. So, when the script is in the same directory, the current directory contains the required file. Try using ... filemtime(realpath($f)) instead. Thanks Richard, It was really wrecking my head. Pat No problem. -- - Richard Quadling Standing on the shoulders of some very clever giants! EE : http://www.experts-exchange.com/M_248814.html EE4Free : http://www.experts-exchange.com/becomeAnExpert.jsp Zend Certified Engineer : http://zend.com/zce.php?c=ZEND002498r=213474731 ZOPA : http://uk.zopa.com/member/RQuadling -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] HTML5 aside description
If aside is not proper to use for this purpose, what would be? sidebar suggests a particular type of layout. section suggests content. nav is appropriate for some items in a side bar, but not all, and is often a child of how aside is being used. div give no semantics. I would like to see a toc tag for nav that serves as a table of contents of sorts (what I often have at the top of a side bar) but I suspect nav is considered sufficient. Maybe sidebar would be best, and the reference to column type layout can just be understood that isn't necessarily on the side? Reading up on it, I saw some suggest figure for what some of you want aside used for, but a figure is often important content and has its own meaning so that's not exactly appropriate. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Persistent flag in memory
On Thu, 2010-02-11 at 08:26 +, Jochem Maas wrote: if you're doing all this already in order to facilitate a multi-platform install ... why not go the extra yard and have the install process setup a cronjob (or scheduled task, launchd entry, etc, depending on platform)? The reason is that the php application will not only be installed locally, but also properly on a server. And some users could have servers that do not offer access to the cron daemon. Which means it might be covered by the installer on windows, and other platforms, but there would still be no crontab equivalent on the server that runs on the internet. Hence an platform-independent solution is still needed. Once that platform-independent solution is there, it could as well be deployed everywhere. But this seems to be going off-topic. I have recently been using daemontools (*nix/bsd compatible daemon management tools ... also used to manage qmail processes) to actually keep a long running / perpetual script running ... it's a very robust bit of If little or no configuration would be required that would help, and if it were available on commodity servers like Bravehost that would be a plus too. it's merely the vehicle your using to have the script run perpetually that irks me. Well, on the type of vehicle used to get a job done, my feeling is that PHP is very flexible and should / can adapt to the user's need, so why not use the tools provided? in practice not much on a personal machine - nonetheless it's wasteful and technically a webserver is unneeded and creates another layer of complexity and overhead. it does seem rather brittle in terms of how you have it set up though. Basically it is written as a web application, which installs locally as well. Therefore to reduce programming efforts, and to make it easier to be cross-platform, the LAMP server was chosen. Programmer's efforts are expensive, therefore choosing these robust tools as Apache, MySQL and PHP / Perl / Python was done for that reason. it's possible that it's the best you can do given the pratical circumstances of the users/maintainers of the installations ... but I hazard to say you 'wrapper' for you perpetual/reaccuring script *might* be a sub-optimal setup ... then again it's rather hard to say without known exactly what you want done every minute, why it needs to be done on the user's machine and what the connection with a cloud. The cloud comes in when somebody installs the app in such an environment (if that is at all possible, I haven't looked into that). The tasks to be done every minute is to check incoming email and process is since users can operate the system through email as well must like a message board where users can post by email. Then there's the processing of the outgoing email queue since all email sent to a user is first going to be put online, then transferred to email if the connection is on. Then there would be regular tasks as sending out diffs to the users since this is an online collaboration environment for translators, so other members can see who changed what in the translation. (This all is still to be made, but these are the plans). PHP is very flexible so should be able to do all of this. But I am afraid to go off-topic again. Teus. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] HTML5 aside description
Michael A. Peters wrote: If aside is not proper to use for this purpose, what would be? How about margin ?? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] HTML5 aside description
On Thu, 2010-02-11 at 05:59 -0800, Michael A. Peters wrote: Michael A. Peters wrote: If aside is not proper to use for this purpose, what would be? How about margin ?? To me margin says an area of space around the content. That's not to say that content can't be put in a margin, but I just don't think it accurately describes the content. For me, the margin is the entire area around the content, so these areas of content we're describing could exist repeatedly as child elements of the margin. How about boxout instead? It describes to me what I think is the gist of the this topic. Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
Re: [PHP] Persistent flag in memory
On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 8:47 AM, Teus Benschop teusjanne...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, 2010-02-11 at 08:26 +, Jochem Maas wrote: if you're doing all this already in order to facilitate a multi-platform install ... why not go the extra yard and have the install process setup a cronjob (or scheduled task, launchd entry, etc, depending on platform)? The reason is that the php application will not only be installed locally, but also properly on a server. And some users could have servers that do not offer access to the cron daemon. Which means it might be covered by the installer on windows, and other platforms, but there would still be no crontab equivalent on the server that runs on the internet. Hence an platform-independent solution is still needed. Once that platform-independent solution is there, it could as well be deployed everywhere. But this seems to be going off-topic. I have recently been using daemontools (*nix/bsd compatible daemon management tools ... also used to manage qmail processes) to actually keep a long running / perpetual script running ... it's a very robust bit of If little or no configuration would be required that would help, and if it were available on commodity servers like Bravehost that would be a plus too. it's merely the vehicle your using to have the script run perpetually that irks me. Well, on the type of vehicle used to get a job done, my feeling is that PHP is very flexible and should / can adapt to the user's need, so why not use the tools provided? in practice not much on a personal machine - nonetheless it's wasteful and technically a webserver is unneeded and creates another layer of complexity and overhead. it does seem rather brittle in terms of how you have it set up though. Basically it is written as a web application, which installs locally as well. Therefore to reduce programming efforts, and to make it easier to be cross-platform, the LAMP server was chosen. Programmer's efforts are expensive, therefore choosing these robust tools as Apache, MySQL and PHP / Perl / Python was done for that reason. it's possible that it's the best you can do given the pratical circumstances of the users/maintainers of the installations ... but I hazard to say you 'wrapper' for you perpetual/reaccuring script *might* be a sub-optimal setup ... then again it's rather hard to say without known exactly what you want done every minute, why it needs to be done on the user's machine and what the connection with a cloud. The cloud comes in when somebody installs the app in such an environment (if that is at all possible, I haven't looked into that). The tasks to be done every minute is to check incoming email and process is since users can operate the system through email as well must like a message board where users can post by email. Then there's the processing of the outgoing email queue since all email sent to a user is first going to be put online, then transferred to email if the connection is on. Then there would be regular tasks as sending out diffs to the users since this is an online collaboration environment for translators, so other members can see who changed what in the translation. (This all is still to be made, but these are the plans). PHP is very flexible so should be able to do all of this. But I am afraid to go off-topic again. Teus. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php Could the app be converted to an Adobe AIR app or use PHPdock ( http://www.nusphere.com/products/phpdock.htm ) to run local? There are a number of security issues that surround installing a webserver and a database locally on a users machine that may become issues. -- Bastien Cat, the other other white meat -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] HTML5 aside description
Ashley Sheridan wrote: On Thu, 2010-02-11 at 01:44 -0500, Robert Cummings wrote: *haha* I've removed w3.org from the recipients list... so onwards to the content below... Jochem Maas wrote: Op 2/10/10 9:08 PM, Robert Cummings schreef: From the editor's draft: The aside element represents a section of a page that consists of content that is tangentially related to the content around the aside element, and which could be considered separate from that content. Such sections are often represented as sidebars in printed typography. The element can be used for typographical effects like pull quotes or sidebars, for advertising, for groups of nav elements, and for other content that is considered separate from the main content of the page. Dear God, please don't suggest it be used for noise like sidebars, advertising, or non related groups of nav elements. Asides are NOT often represented AS sidebars in printed typography, they are often represented IN sidebars of printed typography. This distinction is fundamentally different. I've never read a serious article where suddenly an aside is made where it says: BUY! BUY! BUY! BUY OUR JUNK TODAY!! An aside is tangential to the content (as in the working draft of the spec), this means it is related in some way, usually enriching the information/experience rather than watering it down with nonsense. I beg you to reconsider your wording for this element's description. as an aside, I think I'll wait until there is some general consensus on the actual constructive usage of this sort of tag until I use it - personally I really think this is too vague. the concepts of what is structural, what is semantic and what is style are too mixed up and vague for me to worry, just yet, about the details of these new-fangled HTML5 tags (not mention browser support). @Rob - your browswer compability 'hack' example in another recent thread is a perfect example or the problems we face with trying to delineate between styling and semantics and as such I think I lot of what HTML5 adds is arbitrary and rather vague (the CANVAS and video stuff not withstanding) personally I don't give a hoot - browsers (and more importantly the users, and the various versions they run - and will be running for quite some time) mean that, as fas as I'm concerned, HTML5 and everything it may entail is still a pipe dream. As long as people run IE6 or IE7 (actually any POS browser that doesn't properly attempt to implement current standards) such things as semantically marked up ASIDES (as vague as the concept might) are rather irrelevant to the day to day business of building web sites/applications that accessible/relevant/usable/etc to the general public. I can only somewhat agree with your assessment above. It is true that while many people still use broken browsers like IE6 and IE7; however, this should not completely dissuade us from improving the experience for those users that *do* choose standards compliant browsers. If we ignore those users because we don't see the point in wasting time on the IE* crowd, then we essentially weaken the argument in favour of embracing standards. While IE* Joe, doesn't give a damn about whether his browser supports aside or not, studious Jane really enjoys the enriched experience her browser provides because not only does it understand asides, but it provides a convenient extra facility that extracts them into a browsable list with excerpts taken from the surrounding text for context (inverting the relationship :). Then there's Jenny who's blind, she's listening to the content on the page and hears a little ding go off that indicates there's further information available that she can review-- she can choose to pull it up and listen to it, after which the reader returns to where she left off the original content. Alternatively she may choose not to interrupt the main flow of information, but again, similar to Jane's experience she can listen to each one afterwards in a summarized fashion. This is how serious organizations, and almost certainly Government, will markup their information. Regardless of whether everyone has a browser that supports the information. If the semantic markup improves usability and enriches the information, then it will be used to meet that purpose. PS. from a semantics POV, Robert Cummings is, IMHO, spot on in his assessment - I do enjoy his posts, he's a sharp cookie with plenty to offer and I always enjoy reading his argumentation and opinion! Thanks... You've got me blushing :D Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP I'd say that from what I've heard, Governments aren't that good at getting accessible sites up, so the chances of them using HTML5 semantically, well, the immediate future doesn't look too rosy! Also, I thought I'd throw in my tuppence as to the use of aside. I'd tend
Re: [PHP] HTML5 aside description
Michael A. Peters wrote: If aside is not proper to use for this purpose, what would be? sidebar suggests a particular type of layout. section suggests content. nav is appropriate for some items in a side bar, but not all, and is often a child of how aside is being used. div give no semantics. I would like to see a toc tag for nav that serves as a table of contents of sorts (what I often have at the top of a side bar) but I suspect nav is considered sufficient. Maybe sidebar would be best, and the reference to column type layout can just be understood that isn't necessarily on the side? Reading up on it, I saw some suggest figure for what some of you want aside used for, but a figure is often important content and has its own meaning so that's not exactly appropriate. I would lean towards div if there is no appropriate semantic tag to markup the information. But in the case of ads, there really should be a n ad tag :) The problem though with semantic tags like ad is that it wouldn't be used in practice by most commercial sites, because then the browser would know exactly what to rip out (or at least plugins like adblock) *lol*. Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] HTML5 aside description
Robert Cummings wrote: I don't know about where you are, but Canadian government has very specific guidelines on how content should be marked up... and semantic use of tags is a clear part of that: The institution respects the universal accessibility guidelines developed by the World Wide Web Consortium's Web Accessibility Initiative by ensuring compliance of its Web sites with the Priority 1 and Priority 2 checkpoints of the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 1.0 (WCAG), with the following exception: WCAG checkpoint 3.4 is superseded by requirement 2 of the Common Look and Feel Standards for the Internet, Part 3: Standard on Common Web Page Formats. http:// Oops, that was supposed to remind me to come back and paste the CLF2 URL: http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/clf2-nsi2/index-eng.asp Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] HTML5 aside description
On Thu, 2010-02-11 at 09:39 -0500, Robert Cummings wrote: Ashley Sheridan wrote: On Thu, 2010-02-11 at 01:44 -0500, Robert Cummings wrote: *haha* I've removed w3.org from the recipients list... so onwards to the content below... Jochem Maas wrote: Op 2/10/10 9:08 PM, Robert Cummings schreef: From the editor's draft: The aside element represents a section of a page that consists of content that is tangentially related to the content around the aside element, and which could be considered separate from that content. Such sections are often represented as sidebars in printed typography. The element can be used for typographical effects like pull quotes or sidebars, for advertising, for groups of nav elements, and for other content that is considered separate from the main content of the page. Dear God, please don't suggest it be used for noise like sidebars, advertising, or non related groups of nav elements. Asides are NOT often represented AS sidebars in printed typography, they are often represented IN sidebars of printed typography. This distinction is fundamentally different. I've never read a serious article where suddenly an aside is made where it says: BUY! BUY! BUY! BUY OUR JUNK TODAY!! An aside is tangential to the content (as in the working draft of the spec), this means it is related in some way, usually enriching the information/experience rather than watering it down with nonsense. I beg you to reconsider your wording for this element's description. as an aside, I think I'll wait until there is some general consensus on the actual constructive usage of this sort of tag until I use it - personally I really think this is too vague. the concepts of what is structural, what is semantic and what is style are too mixed up and vague for me to worry, just yet, about the details of these new-fangled HTML5 tags (not mention browser support). @Rob - your browswer compability 'hack' example in another recent thread is a perfect example or the problems we face with trying to delineate between styling and semantics and as such I think I lot of what HTML5 adds is arbitrary and rather vague (the CANVAS and video stuff not withstanding) personally I don't give a hoot - browsers (and more importantly the users, and the various versions they run - and will be running for quite some time) mean that, as fas as I'm concerned, HTML5 and everything it may entail is still a pipe dream. As long as people run IE6 or IE7 (actually any POS browser that doesn't properly attempt to implement current standards) such things as semantically marked up ASIDES (as vague as the concept might) are rather irrelevant to the day to day business of building web sites/applications that accessible/relevant/usable/etc to the general public. I can only somewhat agree with your assessment above. It is true that while many people still use broken browsers like IE6 and IE7; however, this should not completely dissuade us from improving the experience for those users that *do* choose standards compliant browsers. If we ignore those users because we don't see the point in wasting time on the IE* crowd, then we essentially weaken the argument in favour of embracing standards. While IE* Joe, doesn't give a damn about whether his browser supports aside or not, studious Jane really enjoys the enriched experience her browser provides because not only does it understand asides, but it provides a convenient extra facility that extracts them into a browsable list with excerpts taken from the surrounding text for context (inverting the relationship :). Then there's Jenny who's blind, she's listening to the content on the page and hears a little ding go off that indicates there's further information available that she can review-- she can choose to pull it up and listen to it, after which the reader returns to where she left off the original content. Alternatively she may choose not to interrupt the main flow of information, but again, similar to Jane's experience she can listen to each one afterwards in a summarized fashion. This is how serious organizations, and almost certainly Government, will markup their information. Regardless of whether everyone has a browser that supports the information. If the semantic markup improves usability and enriches the information, then it will be used to meet that purpose. PS. from a semantics POV, Robert Cummings is, IMHO, spot on in his assessment - I do enjoy his posts, he's a sharp cookie with plenty to offer and I always enjoy reading his argumentation and opinion! Thanks... You've got me blushing :D Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating
Re: [PHP] HTML5 aside description
Robert Cummings wrote: Michael A. Peters wrote: If aside is not proper to use for this purpose, what would be? sidebar suggests a particular type of layout. section suggests content. nav is appropriate for some items in a side bar, but not all, and is often a child of how aside is being used. div give no semantics. I would like to see a toc tag for nav that serves as a table of contents of sorts (what I often have at the top of a side bar) but I suspect nav is considered sufficient. Maybe sidebar would be best, and the reference to column type layout can just be understood that isn't necessarily on the side? Reading up on it, I saw some suggest figure for what some of you want aside used for, but a figure is often important content and has its own meaning so that's not exactly appropriate. I would lean towards div if there is no appropriate semantic tag to markup the information. But in the case of ads, there really should be a n ad tag :) I don't know. I understand making it cake for ad blockers is attractive, but I run a web site that benefits the local community and is paid for out of my pocket and while some donations have come in, nowhere near what it costs. There are a few select ads (no flash or animated) and even they don't make up the difference, but I wouldn't use something like ad because I personally have taken a huge financial cut this year (20% income reduction) yet I'm kind enough to out of pocket provide this service, including things like a SSL certificate so that users who want to log on can do so without fear of password sniffing etc. and I will never charge for use of my site, so while I don't specifically look for people running ad blockers, when they do, it kind of feels like they are giving me the finger. I do not mind script/flash blockers (and will never use flash ads because of how many behave poorly and do things like expand to cover content or flash at high rates giving headaches and possibly even causing seizures) but I know people use ad blockers, so I host the ad images myself which seems to neuter them, but I would never use something like ad until someone paid me to, and it would have to cover costs (which are not covered even right now even with ads). I've been accused (once) of trying to profit from the site. I'd post how I replied to the jerk, but I assume some children read this list. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] HTML5 aside description
On Thu, 2010-02-11 at 07:02 -0800, Michael A. Peters wrote: Robert Cummings wrote: Michael A. Peters wrote: If aside is not proper to use for this purpose, what would be? sidebar suggests a particular type of layout. section suggests content. nav is appropriate for some items in a side bar, but not all, and is often a child of how aside is being used. div give no semantics. I would like to see a toc tag for nav that serves as a table of contents of sorts (what I often have at the top of a side bar) but I suspect nav is considered sufficient. Maybe sidebar would be best, and the reference to column type layout can just be understood that isn't necessarily on the side? Reading up on it, I saw some suggest figure for what some of you want aside used for, but a figure is often important content and has its own meaning so that's not exactly appropriate. I would lean towards div if there is no appropriate semantic tag to markup the information. But in the case of ads, there really should be a n ad tag :) I don't know. I understand making it cake for ad blockers is attractive, but I run a web site that benefits the local community and is paid for out of my pocket and while some donations have come in, nowhere near what it costs. There are a few select ads (no flash or animated) and even they don't make up the difference, but I wouldn't use something like ad because I personally have taken a huge financial cut this year (20% income reduction) yet I'm kind enough to out of pocket provide this service, including things like a SSL certificate so that users who want to log on can do so without fear of password sniffing etc. and I will never charge for use of my site, so while I don't specifically look for people running ad blockers, when they do, it kind of feels like they are giving me the finger. I do not mind script/flash blockers (and will never use flash ads because of how many behave poorly and do things like expand to cover content or flash at high rates giving headaches and possibly even causing seizures) but I know people use ad blockers, so I host the ad images myself which seems to neuter them, but I would never use something like ad until someone paid me to, and it would have to cover costs (which are not covered even right now even with ads). I've been accused (once) of trying to profit from the site. I'd post how I replied to the jerk, but I assume some children read this list. I think ad's have and always will be part of the web. What gets up most peoples noses, and is something you said you don't do, is flashy ads that try to take over the screen, or ads that pretend to be some sort of warning on your computer. I'm wise enough not to be taken by the latter ones, but the ones that try to take over my screen (always in Flash too) are annoying for 2 reasons: 1) older versions of the Flash player on Linux couldn't handle transparent windowed mode in Flash, so I was left with a big white block over the content, and 2) I just don't like ad's that change size and move over the whole page forcing you to click on them to get at the content that you wanted underneath. Unobtrusive ads are fine. I can look at them or ignore them if I wish, which is likely to get a better response than shoving them in my face. It's for this very reason that I don't read most of the free London newspapers, because I can't stand the people who try to shove them at me every time I try to get a train home from work. Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
Re: [PHP] HTML5 aside description
Michael A. Peters wrote: Robert Cummings wrote: Michael A. Peters wrote: If aside is not proper to use for this purpose, what would be? sidebar suggests a particular type of layout. section suggests content. nav is appropriate for some items in a side bar, but not all, and is often a child of how aside is being used. div give no semantics. I would like to see a toc tag for nav that serves as a table of contents of sorts (what I often have at the top of a side bar) but I suspect nav is considered sufficient. Maybe sidebar would be best, and the reference to column type layout can just be understood that isn't necessarily on the side? Reading up on it, I saw some suggest figure for what some of you want aside used for, but a figure is often important content and has its own meaning so that's not exactly appropriate. I would lean towards div if there is no appropriate semantic tag to markup the information. But in the case of ads, there really should be a n ad tag :) I don't know. I understand making it cake for ad blockers is attractive, but I run a web site that benefits the local community and is paid for out of my pocket and while some donations have come in, nowhere near what it costs. There are a few select ads (no flash or animated) and even they don't make up the difference, but I wouldn't use something like ad because I personally have taken a huge financial cut this year (20% income reduction) yet I'm kind enough to out of pocket provide this service, including things like a SSL certificate so that users who want to log on can do so without fear of password sniffing etc. and I will never charge for use of my site, so while I don't specifically look for people running ad blockers, when they do, it kind of feels like they are giving me the finger. I do not mind script/flash blockers (and will never use flash ads because of how many behave poorly and do things like expand to cover content or flash at high rates giving headaches and possibly even causing seizures) but I know people use ad blockers, so I host the ad images myself which seems to neuter them, but I would never use something like ad until someone paid me to, and it would have to cover costs (which are not covered even right now even with ads). My intent wasn't to make it easy for ad blockers, but to indicate that for correctness that would be the appropriate semantic tag. As I later mentioned, commercial sites wouldn't use just because it would make it easy for ad blockers to strip :| Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] HTML5 aside description
At 5:08 AM + 2/11/10, Jochem Maas wrote: rgds, Jochem PS. from a semantics POV, Robert Cummings is, IMHO, spot on in his assessment - I do enjoy his posts, he's a sharp cookie with plenty to offer and I always enjoy reading his argumentation and opinion! With the danger of Rob becoming insufferable, I enjoy and also learn from Rob's opinion, advice, and practice. He is undoubtedly sharp and probably too intelligent for this list. But until he realizes that, we'll continue to gain from his contribution. Cheers, tedd PS: I agree with most of what he practices except for bracket spacing. :-) -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] HTML5 aside description
tedd wrote: At 5:08 AM + 2/11/10, Jochem Maas wrote: rgds, Jochem PS. from a semantics POV, Robert Cummings is, IMHO, spot on in his assessment - I do enjoy his posts, he's a sharp cookie with plenty to offer and I always enjoy reading his argumentation and opinion! With the danger of Rob becoming insufferable, I enjoy and also learn from Rob's opinion, advice, and practice. He is undoubtedly sharp and probably too intelligent for this list. But until he realizes that, we'll continue to gain from his contribution. Bleh, I dunno about all that... even if I were too smart for the list, I love the list for the feeling of community... it takes more than just me for that feeling. I thank all the people on the list who make it a pleasure to read and learn, and who don't take discussion/argumentation personally. I learn many things from the members on this list too and I'm never afraid to admit when I'm wrong. Mere discussion that exposes the many facets of an issue is a great way to advance one's thinking regardless of whether it confirms your original viewpoint or not. Thanks again to all on this list. PS: I agree with most of what he practices except for bracket spacing. :-) Everyone's a critic :D Cheers, Rob. *lol* Almost got caught posting to W3.org again ;) -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Persistent flag in memory
On Thu, 2010-02-11 at 09:27 -0500, Bastien Koert wrote: Could the app be converted to an Adobe AIR app or use PHPdock ( http://www.nusphere.com/products/phpdock.htm ) to run local? There are a number of security issues that surround installing a webserver and a database locally on a users machine that may become issues. It probably could be converted into a local application using these technologies, interesting technologies, by the way. The snag that will be hit though is that the application is licensed under the GPL v 3. Both tools you mention are closed source, I believe, and in addition I am not sure whether these work for Windows only, leaving Mac and Unix out. Will contributors to the applications be willing to buy the technologies? The security issues that you mention should be taken seriously. Teus. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] RE: SOAP connect error
Are you using wsdl? If so, does the WSDL file contain the information that
the port to use for the requests is on port 8080?
--
-
Richard Quadling
Standing on the shoulders of some very clever giants!
EE : http://www.experts-exchange.com/M_248814.html
EE4Free : http://www.experts-exchange.com/becomeAnExpert.jsp
Zend Certified Engineer : http://zend.com/zce.php?c=ZEND002498r=213474731
ZOPA : http://uk.zopa.com/member/RQuadling
First, I am sorry for not getting back to this yesterday. I had some other
things come up.
As far as I know this website is using WSDL. I know that one of the early
issues I ran into in trying to get this to work was not having the wsdl.php
file in the path.
That having been said are you talking about the wsdl file on the server that
is providing the service or are you talking about the wsdl file on the system
hosting the webpage.
I can get everything to work correctly when I am working from our internal
development server. But when I attempt to put the file on the hosted site our
clients would ultimately be using I am getting the connect error.
I have compared the wsdl.php files on these two servers and neither of them
have specific information about the port in them.
Here is the code that I am using to connect to the webservice:
$webservices_uri =
http://xx.xx.xx.xx:8080/jasperserver/services/repository;;
Here is the code where I am trying to connect:
function ws_checkUsername($username, $password)
{
$connection_params = array(user = $username, pass =
$password);
$info = new SOAP_client($GLOBALS[webservices_uri], false,
false, $connection_params);
$op_xml = request
operationName=\list\resourceDescriptor name=\\ wsType=\folder\
uriString=\\ isNew=\false\.
label/label/resourceDescriptor/request;
$params = array(request = $op_xml );
$response = $info-call(list,$params,array('namespace' =
$GLOBALS[namespace]));
return $response;
}
This is working when I use the IP address of the server behind the firewall,
but when I try to use the address that is open through the firewall it is not
connecting. I can connect to the external IP address by entering it into the
browser and it does ask for the username and password.
Thank you
Eric H. Lommatsch
Programmer
360 Business
2087 South Grant Street
Denver, CO 80210
Tel 303-777-8939 Ext 23
Fax 888-282-9927
er...@360b.com
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[PHP] PHP will NOT display this on my dev machine: Warning: session_start()...
I am running into a strange problem and I hope someone might have an idea why this is happening. My installation of PHP will *NOT* display the warning message below on my development machine where it should display it (sample code at the bottom). Warning: session_start() [function.session-start]: Cannot send session cache limiter After receiving a bug report from a customer I tested my code on a XAMPP setup and, sure enough, it displayed the warning message. But on my machine, I can't find a message in my php log, it is as if this problem does not even exist (on my dev machine). My dev setup is: OS: ARCH 64bit (about a month out of date) PHP Dev stuff: Apache/2.2.14 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.2.14 OpenSSL/0.9.8k DAV/2 SVN/1.6.6 PHP/5.3.1 with Suhosin-Patch xdebug-2.0.5-2-x86_64 php.ini error_reporting = E_ALL | E_STRICT display_errors = On display_startup_errors = On log_errors = On html_errors = On phpinfo() confirms that these settings are in effect display_errors On On error_reporting 32767 32767 So does anybody have any clue as to what could be causing this problem of not getting a warning message? Here is sample code: pThe warning should be below this line/p ?PHP session_start(); ? pThe warning should be above this line/p Which should produce the message below between the lines: Warning: session_start() [function.session-start]: Cannot send session cache limiter - headers already sent ( output started at file_name on line 2 ) but on my machine all I get is this in html source of the output: pThe warning should be below this line/p pThe warning should be above this line/p thx -- John Staat heißt das kälteste aller kalten Ungeheuer. Kalt lügt es auch; und diese Lüge kriecht aus seinem Munde: 'Ich, der Staat, bin das Volk.' [Friedrich Nietzsche] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP will NOT display this on my dev machine: Warning: session_start()...
Do you have output buffering turned on? On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 1:19 PM, John Black s...@network-technologies.orgwrote: I am running into a strange problem and I hope someone might have an idea why this is happening. My installation of PHP will *NOT* display the warning message below on my development machine where it should display it (sample code at the bottom). Warning: session_start() [function.session-start]: Cannot send session cache limiter After receiving a bug report from a customer I tested my code on a XAMPP setup and, sure enough, it displayed the warning message. But on my machine, I can't find a message in my php log, it is as if this problem does not even exist (on my dev machine). My dev setup is: OS: ARCH 64bit (about a month out of date) PHP Dev stuff: Apache/2.2.14 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.2.14 OpenSSL/0.9.8k DAV/2 SVN/1.6.6 PHP/5.3.1 with Suhosin-Patch xdebug-2.0.5-2-x86_64 php.ini error_reporting = E_ALL | E_STRICT display_errors = On display_startup_errors = On log_errors = On html_errors = On phpinfo() confirms that these settings are in effect display_errors On On error_reporting 32767 32767 So does anybody have any clue as to what could be causing this problem of not getting a warning message? Here is sample code: pThe warning should be below this line/p ?PHP session_start(); ? pThe warning should be above this line/p Which should produce the message below between the lines: Warning: session_start() [function.session-start]: Cannot send session cache limiter - headers already sent ( output started at file_name on line 2 ) but on my machine all I get is this in html source of the output: pThe warning should be below this line/p pThe warning should be above this line/p thx -- John Staat heißt das kälteste aller kalten Ungeheuer. Kalt lügt es auch; und diese Lüge kriecht aus seinem Munde: 'Ich, der Staat, bin das Volk.' [Friedrich Nietzsche] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- Nephtali: PHP web framework that functions beautifully http://nephtaliproject.com
Re: [PHP] PHP will NOT display this on my dev machine: Warning: session_start()...
On Thu, 2010-02-11 at 19:19 +0100, John Black wrote: I am running into a strange problem and I hope someone might have an idea why this is happening. My installation of PHP will *NOT* display the warning message below on my development machine where it should display it (sample code at the bottom). Warning: session_start() [function.session-start]: Cannot send session cache limiter After receiving a bug report from a customer I tested my code on a XAMPP setup and, sure enough, it displayed the warning message. But on my machine, I can't find a message in my php log, it is as if this problem does not even exist (on my dev machine). My dev setup is: OS: ARCH 64bit (about a month out of date) PHP Dev stuff: Apache/2.2.14 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.2.14 OpenSSL/0.9.8k DAV/2 SVN/1.6.6 PHP/5.3.1 with Suhosin-Patch xdebug-2.0.5-2-x86_64 php.ini error_reporting = E_ALL | E_STRICT display_errors = On display_startup_errors = On log_errors = On html_errors = On phpinfo() confirms that these settings are in effect display_errors On On error_reporting 32767 32767 So does anybody have any clue as to what could be causing this problem of not getting a warning message? Here is sample code: pThe warning should be below this line/p ?PHP session_start(); ? pThe warning should be above this line/p Which should produce the message below between the lines: Warning: session_start() [function.session-start]: Cannot send session cache limiter - headers already sent ( output started at file_name on line 2 ) but on my machine all I get is this in html source of the output: pThe warning should be below this line/p pThe warning should be above this line/p thx -- John Staat heißt das kälteste aller kalten Ungeheuer. Kalt lügt es auch; und diese Lüge kriecht aus seinem Munde: 'Ich, der Staat, bin das Volk.' [Friedrich Nietzsche] Is your system setup with session autostart enabled? That would cause PHP to ignore you manually starting them I believe, as they should have already been started. I'm not 100% certain on this though. Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
Re: [PHP] Persistent flag in memory
Op 2/11/10 3:48 PM, Teus Benschop schreef: On Thu, 2010-02-11 at 09:27 -0500, Bastien Koert wrote: Could the app be converted to an Adobe AIR app or use PHPdock ( http://www.nusphere.com/products/phpdock.htm ) to run local? There are a number of security issues that surround installing a webserver and a database locally on a users machine that may become issues. It probably could be converted into a local application using these technologies, interesting technologies, by the way. The snag that will be hit though is that the application is licensed under the GPL v 3. Both tools you mention are closed source, I believe, and in addition I am not sure whether these work for Windows only, leaving Mac and Unix out. Will contributors to the applications be willing to buy the technologies? The security issues that you mention should be taken seriously. Teus. Adobe AIR is a free platform - incl. a free SDK, it runs on Win, Mac and Linux. AFAICT there is no restriction for developing GPL code that runs on the Air platform ... obviously you'll not be using PHP inside Air - javascript and/or actionscript would be the language in which the app logic is written. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP will NOT display this on my dev machine: Warning: session_start()...
Adam Richardson wrote: Do you have output buffering turned on? THANK YOU! That was it, for some reason ARCH has a tweaked php.ini in their main repo, that sucks. Thank you, I have been looking all over to fix this! -- John -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Mysql statement works in phpmyadmin but not in php page
I'm at my wits end trying to make this mysql statement insert work in PHP. I'm not getting any errors from PHP or mysql but the insert fails (nothing is inserted) error reporting is on and is reporting other errors. When I echo out the query and manually paste it into PHP myAdmin the query inserts without a problem. I know that I am connecting to the database as well part of the data being inserted comes from the same database and that the mysql user has permission to do inserts (even tried as root no luck). $query=INSERT INTO upload_history (v_id,hour,visits,date) VALUES (.$v_id.,.$hour.,.$visits.,'$date1'.);; $r2=mysql_query($query) or die(bA fatal MySQL error occured/b.\nbr /Query: . $query . br /\nError: ( . mysql_errno() . ) . mysql_error()); This is an echo of $query and runs in phpmyadmin. INSERT INTO history (v_id,hour,visits,date) VALUES (45,0,59,'2010 01 27'); Any idea what is going on here? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Mysql statement works in phpmyadmin but not in php page
Try putting tick marks (`) around the field and table names. So your SQL query would then look like: INSERT INTO `history` (`v_id`, `hour`, `visits`, `date`) VALUES (45, 0, 59, '2010 01 27'); This is a good practice to get into. The problem is that MySQL allows you to create tables and fields with the same name as functions. If the tick marks are not there, then it assumes you mean to try using the function. In your case, hour is a function in mysql. I would assume that the reason it works in phpmyadmin is that it filters the query somehow to add the tick marks in. Joseph james stojan wrote: I'm at my wits end trying to make this mysql statement insert work in PHP. I'm not getting any errors from PHP or mysql but the insert fails (nothing is inserted) error reporting is on and is reporting other errors. When I echo out the query and manually paste it into PHP myAdmin the query inserts without a problem. I know that I am connecting to the database as well part of the data being inserted comes from the same database and that the mysql user has permission to do inserts (even tried as root no luck). $query=INSERT INTO upload_history (v_id,hour,visits,date) VALUES (.$v_id.,.$hour.,.$visits.,'$date1'.);; $r2=mysql_query($query) or die(bA fatal MySQL error occured/b.\nbr /Query: . $query . br /\nError: ( . mysql_errno() . ) . mysql_error()); This is an echo of $query and runs in phpmyadmin. INSERT INTO history (v_id,hour,visits,date) VALUES (45,0,59,'2010 01 27'); Any idea what is going on here? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Mysql statement works in phpmyadmin but not in php page
james stojan wrote on 11/02/2010 22:21: $query=INSERT INTO upload_history (v_id,hour,visits,date) VALUES (.$v_id.,.$hour.,.$visits.,'$date1'.);; The ,'$date1'. is not correct syntax, change it to ,'.$date.' -- Kind regards Kim Emax - masterminds.dk -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Mysql statement works in phpmyadmin but not in php page
Also, in PHP you should NOT put the last semi-colon at the end of your SQL statement. http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.mysql-query.php On Feb 11, 2010, at 1:26 PM, Joseph Thayne wrote: Try putting tick marks (`) around the field and table names. So your SQL query would then look like: INSERT INTO `history` (`v_id`, `hour`, `visits`, `date`) VALUES (45, 0, 59, '2010 01 27'); This is a good practice to get into. The problem is that MySQL allows you to create tables and fields with the same name as functions. If the tick marks are not there, then it assumes you mean to try using the function. In your case, hour is a function in mysql. I would assume that the reason it works in phpmyadmin is that it filters the query somehow to add the tick marks in. Joseph james stojan wrote: I'm at my wits end trying to make this mysql statement insert work in PHP. I'm not getting any errors from PHP or mysql but the insert fails (nothing is inserted) error reporting is on and is reporting other errors. When I echo out the query and manually paste it into PHP myAdmin the query inserts without a problem. I know that I am connecting to the database as well part of the data being inserted comes from the same database and that the mysql user has permission to do inserts (even tried as root no luck). $query=INSERT INTO upload_history (v_id,hour,visits,date) VALUES (.$v_id.,.$hour.,.$visits.,'$date1'.);; $r2=mysql_query($query) or die(bA fatal MySQL error occured/b.\nbr /Query: . $query . br /\nError: ( . mysql_errno() . ) . mysql_error()); This is an echo of $query and runs in phpmyadmin. INSERT INTO history (v_id,hour,visits,date) VALUES (45,0,59,'2010 01 27'); Any idea what is going on here? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Mysql statement works in phpmyadmin but not in php page
Thank you. You were right on the money, hour was the problem and the tick marks solved it. I spent 3 hours trying to figure out why I never got an error but there was no insert and php myadmin does add the tick marks automatically. Probably a good habit to always use the tick marks. Learn something new everyday. On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 4:26 PM, Joseph Thayne webad...@thaynefam.orgwrote: Try putting tick marks (`) around the field and table names. So your SQL query would then look like: INSERT INTO `history` (`v_id`, `hour`, `visits`, `date`) VALUES (45, 0, 59, '2010 01 27'); This is a good practice to get into. The problem is that MySQL allows you to create tables and fields with the same name as functions. If the tick marks are not there, then it assumes you mean to try using the function. In your case, hour is a function in mysql. I would assume that the reason it works in phpmyadmin is that it filters the query somehow to add the tick marks in. Joseph james stojan wrote: I'm at my wits end trying to make this mysql statement insert work in PHP. I'm not getting any errors from PHP or mysql but the insert fails (nothing is inserted) error reporting is on and is reporting other errors. When I echo out the query and manually paste it into PHP myAdmin the query inserts without a problem. I know that I am connecting to the database as well part of the data being inserted comes from the same database and that the mysql user has permission to do inserts (even tried as root no luck). $query=INSERT INTO upload_history (v_id,hour,visits,date) VALUES (.$v_id.,.$hour.,.$visits.,'$date1'.);; $r2=mysql_query($query) or die(bA fatal MySQL error occured/b.\nbr /Query: . $query . br /\nError: ( . mysql_errno() . ) . mysql_error()); This is an echo of $query and runs in phpmyadmin. INSERT INTO history (v_id,hour,visits,date) VALUES (45,0,59,'2010 01 27'); Any idea what is going on here?
Re: [PHP] Mysql statement works in phpmyadmin but not in php page
Actually, the syntax is just fine. I personally would prefer it the way you mention, but there actually is nothing wrong with the syntax. The ,'$date1'. is not correct syntax, change it to ,'.$date.' -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Mysql statement works in phpmyadmin but not in php page
On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 8:27 AM, Joseph Thayne webad...@thaynefam.org wrote:
Actually, the syntax is just fine. I personally would prefer it the way you
mention, but there actually is nothing wrong with the syntax.
The ,'$date1'. is not correct syntax, change it to ,'.$date.'
My personal preference these days is to use Curly braces around
variables in strings such as this, I always find excessive string
concatenation such as is often used when building SQL queries hard to
read, and IIRC there was performance implications to it as well
(though I don't have access to concrete stats right now).
In your case, the variable would be something like this:
$query=INSERT INTO upload_history (v_id,hour,visits,date) VALUES
({$v_id}, {$hour}, {$visits}, '{$date}');
Much more readable and maintainable IMO.
No need for the trailing semicolon in SQL that uses an API like you
are using so save another char there too.
Backticks around column names are not required and IMO again they just
make the code hard to read. Just because phpMyAdmin uses them, doesn't
mean we all need to.
Cheers
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Re: [PHP] Mysql statement works in phpmyadmin but not in php page
That is a good idea to use the curly braces. I consistently forget
about them, and fell like an idiot every time I am reminded of them.
As for the backticks, they are required because of MySQL, not because of
phpMyAdmin. The issue was not that phpMyAdmin uses backticks, it is
that MySQL pretty much requires them when naming a field the same as an
internal function to my knowledge. If someone else knows of another way
to designate to MySQL that a field named HOUR is the name of a field
rather than the name of the internal function, I would love to know.
James McLean wrote:
On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 8:27 AM, Joseph Thayne webad...@thaynefam.org wrote:
Actually, the syntax is just fine. I personally would prefer it the way you
mention, but there actually is nothing wrong with the syntax.
The ,'$date1'. is not correct syntax, change it to ,'.$date.'
My personal preference these days is to use Curly braces around
variables in strings such as this, I always find excessive string
concatenation such as is often used when building SQL queries hard to
read, and IIRC there was performance implications to it as well
(though I don't have access to concrete stats right now).
In your case, the variable would be something like this:
$query=INSERT INTO upload_history (v_id,hour,visits,date) VALUES
({$v_id}, {$hour}, {$visits}, '{$date}');
Much more readable and maintainable IMO.
No need for the trailing semicolon in SQL that uses an API like you
are using so save another char there too.
Backticks around column names are not required and IMO again they just
make the code hard to read. Just because phpMyAdmin uses them, doesn't
mean we all need to.
Cheers
Re: [PHP] Mysql statement works in phpmyadmin but not in php page
Op 2/11/10 10:51 PM, James McLean schreef:
On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 8:27 AM, Joseph Thayne webad...@thaynefam.org wrote:
Actually, the syntax is just fine. I personally would prefer it the way you
mention, but there actually is nothing wrong with the syntax.
The ,'$date1'. is not correct syntax, change it to ,'.$date.'
My personal preference these days is to use Curly braces around
variables in strings such as this, I always find excessive string
concatenation such as is often used when building SQL queries hard to
read, and IIRC there was performance implications to it as well
(though I don't have access to concrete stats right now).
In your case, the variable would be something like this:
$query=INSERT INTO upload_history (v_id,hour,visits,date) VALUES
({$v_id}, {$hour}, {$visits}, '{$date}');
actually IIRC the engine compiles that to OpCodes that equate to:
$query = 'INSERT INTO upload_history (v_id,hour,visits,date) VALUES ('.$v_id.',
'.$hour.', '.$visits.', '\''.{$date}.'\')';
Much more readable and maintainable IMO.
No need for the trailing semicolon in SQL that uses an API like you
are using so save another char there too.
Backticks around column names are not required and IMO again they just
make the code hard to read. Just because phpMyAdmin uses them, doesn't
mean we all need to.
Cheers
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Re: [PHP] Mysql statement works in phpmyadmin but not in php page
On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 9:31 AM, Jochem Maas joc...@iamjochem.com wrote:
Op 2/11/10 10:51 PM, James McLean schreef:
My personal preference these days is to use Curly braces around
variables in strings such as this, I always find excessive string
concatenation such as is often used when building SQL queries hard to
read, and IIRC there was performance implications to it as well
(though I don't have access to concrete stats right now).
In your case, the variable would be something like this:
$query=INSERT INTO upload_history (v_id,hour,visits,date) VALUES
({$v_id}, {$hour}, {$visits}, '{$date}');
actually IIRC the engine compiles that to OpCodes that equate to:
$query = 'INSERT INTO upload_history (v_id,hour,visits,date) VALUES
('.$v_id.', '.$hour.', '.$visits.', '\''.{$date}.'\')';
Interesting point, but the original code is still more readable, the
opcode's aren't our problem (at least in this case) :)
Cheers
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Re: [PHP] Mysql statement works in phpmyadmin but not in php page
On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 9:31 AM, Joseph Thayne webad...@thaynefam.org wrote: As for the backticks, they are required because of MySQL, not because of phpMyAdmin. The issue was not that phpMyAdmin uses backticks, it is that MySQL pretty much requires them when naming a field the same as an internal function to my knowledge. If someone else knows of another way to designate to MySQL that a field named HOUR is the name of a field rather than the name of the internal function, I would love to know. Ahh I see :) Wasn't aware of that. Personally i've always been over-descriptive when designing my tables which is possibly why I've never run into that limitation :) Thanks. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Mysql statement works in phpmyadmin but not in php page
Yeah, I am a lot more descriptive now. I ran into it quite a bit when I was first starting out. James McLean wrote: On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 9:31 AM, Joseph Thayne webad...@thaynefam.org wrote: As for the backticks, they are required because of MySQL, not because of phpMyAdmin. The issue was not that phpMyAdmin uses backticks, it is that MySQL pretty much requires them when naming a field the same as an internal function to my knowledge. If someone else knows of another way to designate to MySQL that a field named HOUR is the name of a field rather than the name of the internal function, I would love to know. Ahh I see :) Wasn't aware of that. Personally i've always been over-descriptive when designing my tables which is possibly why I've never run into that limitation :) Thanks.
Re: [PHP] PHP Manual problems
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:18:18 +, a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk (Ashley Sheridan) wrote: On Thu, 2010-02-11 at 10:16 +1100, Ross McKay wrote: ... There's a good reason for OpenOffice having some difficulties with MS Office documents. Back when MS rushed through getting their document standard ratified by ISO (which itself is a whole other story) they didn't explain all the details quite as well as they might have. Later on, MS found they were having some difficulty following their own 'standard' and so altered it in various ways in Office2007. Needless to say, ISO weren't too happy when MS asked if they could just 'change the specs' for their file format, and quite rightly refused to do so. In short, this means that there is a MS ISO standard that MS is the only one not trying to follow, and software like OpenOffice is left to reverse engineering the format again. When the first Word Macro virus appeared in the early 90s, the AV industry approached Microsoft for the specifications of the internal structure of the Word documents. After some discussion Microsoft agreed to make these available to firms who signed an NDA. Several large firms did so, but when they got the specifications they immediately discovered that they bore very little relation to the actual documents. When Microsoft was approached about this their reply was Well, that's all we've got! The industry had to run a joint program to reverse engineer the specifications before they could work out how to remove the virus. The story that went around was that with each update Microsoft hired a new batch of young graduates asidethey don't have preconceived notions (a.k.a. experience), and they don't have extravagant ideas of their own worth/aside, told them vaguely what they wanted, and left them to it. Then, as soon as they had something that sort of worked, they let them go again. So there was no continuity, no documentation, no hope of bug fixes, and very little likelihood that the next update would be improved in any meaningful sense. I have seen nothing to suggest that anything has changed. And Bill actually likes it this way! Someone who did a lot of support work for small and medium enterprises told me that the biggest pressure for updating to the latest version came from workers envious of the new employee, with his new computer and the new version of the Microsoft rubbish --- sorry, wonder product. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] the limitation of upload_max_filesize, post_max_size
Hi, I know that we can limit the size of upload file by specify upload_max_filesize, post_max_size and even memory_limit parameters. Though we can change these parameters, can someone please let me know what the maximum value of these parameters can be? What is the factors we need to take into account when specify these values. Many thank, Pinate -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/the-limitation-of-upload_max_filesize%2C-post_max_size-tp27556756p27556756.html Sent from the PHP - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Mysql statement works in phpmyadmin but not in php page
On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 09:44:47AM +1030, James McLean wrote: On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 9:31 AM, Joseph Thayne webad...@thaynefam.org wrote: As for the backticks, they are required because of MySQL, not because of phpMyAdmin. The issue was not that phpMyAdmin uses backticks, it is that MySQL pretty much requires them when naming a field the same as an internal function to my knowledge. If someone else knows of another way to designate to MySQL that a field named HOUR is the name of a field rather than the name of the internal function, I would love to know. Backticks are also required to preserve casing in MySQL, if you name something in mixed or upper case; MySQL lowercases table and field names otherwise. It's a silly misfeature of MySQL. I can't conceive of why a DBMS would assume something which should be understood in the context of a field name should instead be interpreted as a function call. Buy maybe that's just me. Paul -- Paul M. Foster -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] PHP Manual problems
On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 12:13:11PM +1100, clanc...@cybec.com.au wrote: On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:18:18 +, a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk (Ashley Sheridan) wrote: On Thu, 2010-02-11 at 10:16 +1100, Ross McKay wrote: ... There's a good reason for OpenOffice having some difficulties with MS Office documents. Back when MS rushed through getting their document standard ratified by ISO (which itself is a whole other story) they didn't explain all the details quite as well as they might have. Later on, MS found they were having some difficulty following their own 'standard' and so altered it in various ways in Office2007. Needless to say, ISO weren't too happy when MS asked if they could just 'change the specs' for their file format, and quite rightly refused to do so. In short, this means that there is a MS ISO standard that MS is the only one not trying to follow, and software like OpenOffice is left to reverse engineering the format again. When the first Word Macro virus appeared in the early 90s, the AV industry approached Microsoft for the specifications of the internal structure of the Word documents. After some discussion Microsoft agreed to make these available to firms who signed an NDA. Several large firms did so, but when they got the specifications they immediately discovered that they bore very little relation to the actual documents. When Microsoft was approached about this their reply was Well, that's all we've got! The industry had to run a joint program to reverse engineer the specifications before they could work out how to remove the virus. The story that went around was that with each update Microsoft hired a new batch of young graduates asidethey don't have preconceived notions (a.k.a. experience), and they don't have extravagant ideas of their own worth/aside, told them vaguely what they wanted, and left them to it. Then, as soon as they had something that sort of worked, they let them go again. So there was no continuity, no documentation, no hope of bug fixes, and very little likelihood that the next update would be improved in any meaningful sense. I have seen nothing to suggest that anything has changed. I suspect any lack of continuity was more due to the shifting of personnel internally to differing projects, rather than the hiring of all new coders each time. But more importantly, I suspect MS coders just coded without writing any docs. Coders usually suck at documentation and will avoid it unless forced. And if forced to write docs, the docs were just a toss-off no one ever actually looked at. Microsoft's attitude, I'm sure was, Why should we care about other players in the market? Just buy our crap and you won't have to worry about our formats. (Except until the next upgrade.) I think ISO's policy should be that if you're a company forwarding a standard, your off-the-shelf software should verifiably duplicate that standard. Otherwise, go pound sand. Same if you're a community proposing a standard. Produce some software which adheres to that standard or shut up. Paul -- Paul M. Foster -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] Mysql statement works in phpmyadmin but not in php page
I was going to write an example as to what should happen instead of what
actually does when id dawned on me why MySQL works the way it does. One of
the biggest complaints people have with MySQL is in speed. To demonstrate
what I just realized, take the following statement that will select the hour
from a given time as well as the value from the hour field:
SELECT HOUR('13:42:37') as thehour, hour FROM mytable;
Not a big deal and pretty straight forward. What about the following?
SELECT HOUR(mydate) as thehour, hour FROM mytable;
Still pretty simple to determine which are the functions and which are the
field names. However, take the following:
SELECT HOUR(NOW()) as thehour, hour FROM mytable;
As humans, glancing at it, it makes perfect sense to us as to which is
which. However, try telling a computer how to interpret the above
statement. You could look for parenthesis. That would work fine on the
first two statements, but once you get to the third, you have to worry about
recursion and all possible permutations of the data that could come through.
This exponentially increases the complexity and processing time/power
required to run the query. Granted, that query is a simple one, but plug it
into a query filled with multiple joins, and you have the potential of a
nightmare. So why focus on adding in functionality that adds so much
complexity and will end up requiring that much extra support when a simple
character (the tick mark) will take care of the work for you and you can
then focus on other things such as data integrity and general processing
speed?
Joseph
-Original Message-
From: Paul M Foster [mailto:pa...@quillandmouse.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 9:15 PM
To: php-general@lists.php.net
Subject: Re: [PHP] Mysql statement works in phpmyadmin but not in php page
On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 09:44:47AM +1030, James McLean wrote:
On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 9:31 AM, Joseph Thayne webad...@thaynefam.org
wrote:
As for the backticks, they are required because of MySQL, not because of
phpMyAdmin. The issue was not that phpMyAdmin uses backticks, it is
that
MySQL pretty much requires them when naming a field the same as an
internal
function to my knowledge. If someone else knows of another way to
designate
to MySQL that a field named HOUR is the name of a field rather than the
name
of the internal function, I would love to know.
Backticks are also required to preserve casing in MySQL, if you name
something in mixed or upper case; MySQL lowercases table and field names
otherwise. It's a silly misfeature of MySQL.
I can't conceive of why a DBMS would assume something which should be
understood in the context of a field name should instead be interpreted
as a function call. Buy maybe that's just me.
Paul
--
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[PHP] Checking correct usage of fopen(), stream_set_timeout() and fread() [newbie]
Hi,
I have some code to download large files as part of a larger class. I've
been in a discussion with the developer of a library that I'm using who has
told me clearly that my code will not work at all, even though it does. He
is suggesting my problems are due to my not understanding the nature of
fread() even the code is very similar to examples on php.net.
I do get very rare timeout problems where the stream_set_timeout() does not
seem to be firing, and PHP exits on a general timeout. However I'm using
this under Tomcat and the logs are not giving me as much information as
under Apache webserver, where I have been unable to reproduce this problem.
So it's proving difficult to track down and I'm not able to reproduce the
error consistently. I would appreciate any comments about the validity of
the code (at the bottom) so I have a better idea whether it is my problem,
or not. It might be that I need to catch and handle the error, but that is
an area where I have no experience as yet.
I'm aware the code could be rewritten in CURL, but for now I'm more after an
understanding of what problems there might be, if any, with this approach.
The server is returning content-length in the header, and chunk encoding is
not an approach I'm intending to use right now.
Also, I'd appreciate any ideas on what the developer might mean by the
following quote. He's asked that I do not use his mailing list anymore and
should take my questions to php-general, so it would be impolite to ignore
this so I can ask him to explain further:
3. The network buffer used by the PHP streams implementation reads data
eagerly. If you fread($socket, 1024) and the network buffer already
contains 24 bytes, PHP will try to read 1000 bytes nevertheless.
My understanding is the fread() will wait until is has 1024 bytes (in this
example) and then return that, unless EOF is encountered when the data up to
and including EOF is returned. I'm not sure what he's trying to say.
Many thanks for any advice on this.
Mark...
Code:
(The intentions are: used for downloading very large files while avoiding
memory problems, this is contained in a loop for a list of files, if the
socket is unavailable then the download is not attempted for that file, if
the socket is available but no data is received in a 30 second period, then
that download should be aborted and retried up to 5 times)
$download_attempt = 1;
do {
$fs = fopen('http://' . $host . $file, rb);
if (!$fs) {
$this-writeDebugInfo(FAILED to open stream for , http://;
. $host . $file);
} else {
$fm = fopen ($temp_file_name, w);
stream_set_timeout($fs, 30);
while(!feof($fs)) {
$contents = fread($fs, 4096); // Buffered download
fwrite($fm, $contents);
$info = stream_get_meta_data($fs);
if ($info['timed_out']) {
break;
}
}
fclose($fm);
fclose($fs);
if ($info['timed_out']) {
// Delete temp file if fails
unlink($temp_file_name);
$this-writeDebugInfo(FAILED on attempt .
$download_attempt . - Connection timed out: , $temp_file_name);
$download_attempt++;
if ($download_attempt 5) {
$this-writeDebugInfo(RETRYING: , $temp_file_name);
}
} else {
// Move temp file if succeeds
$media_file_name = str_replace('temp/', 'media/',
$temp_file_name);
rename($temp_file_name, $media_file_name);
$this-newDownload = true;
$this-writeDebugInfo(SUCCESS: , $media_file_name);
}
}
} while ($download_attempt 5 $info['timed_out']);
Re: [PHP] Mysql statement works in phpmyadmin but not in php page
On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 09:49:02PM -0600, Joseph Thayne wrote:
I was going to write an example as to what should happen instead of what
actually does when id dawned on me why MySQL works the way it does. One of
the biggest complaints people have with MySQL is in speed.
The much-vaunted speed of MySQL is the biggest complaint? Sheesh.
To demonstrate
what I just realized, take the following statement that will select the hour
from a given time as well as the value from the hour field:
SELECT HOUR('13:42:37') as thehour, hour FROM mytable;
Not a big deal and pretty straight forward. What about the following?
SELECT HOUR(mydate) as thehour, hour FROM mytable;
Still pretty simple to determine which are the functions and which are the
field names. However, take the following:
SELECT HOUR(NOW()) as thehour, hour FROM mytable;
As humans, glancing at it, it makes perfect sense to us as to which is
which. However, try telling a computer how to interpret the above
statement. You could look for parenthesis. That would work fine on the
first two statements, but once you get to the third, you have to worry about
recursion and all possible permutations of the data that could come through.
This exponentially increases the complexity and processing time/power
required to run the query. Granted, that query is a simple one, but plug it
into a query filled with multiple joins, and you have the potential of a
nightmare. So why focus on adding in functionality that adds so much
complexity and will end up requiring that much extra support when a simple
character (the tick mark) will take care of the work for you and you can
then focus on other things such as data integrity and general processing
speed?
I understand what you're saying, and you may be right about why MySQL
was built this way. However, it's like telling the programmers not to
build a better parser; just make the user backtick stuff so we don't
have to write a proper parser. For a one-off script only I was going to
use, I'd do this. But not for a professional level product used by
millions, speed or no speed. Imagine if KR had tried to shortcut the C
parser this way; the C parser is almost endlessly re-entrant and must
accommodate some seriously obfuscated code. Which it does reliably.
Besides, if you've got a parser which understands joins, parsing things
like the distinction between hour (field name) and hour (function call)
is a piece of cake.
If a programmer working for me tried to pawn this off as a done, I'd
make him redo it. Again, maybe it's just me.
Anyway, we're way off topic
Paul
--
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