At 11:45 PM -0400 6/6/06, Robert Cummings wrote:
On Tue, 2006-06-06 at 22:53, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
Richard Lynch wrote:
Or we try to do something a bit more creative which always runs the risk
of surprising people. In this case a2++ becomes a3 and c9++
becomes d0. If we have a character
On 06 June 2006 02:35, tedd wrote:
a b c ... x y z aa ab ac ... yx yy yz za zb zc ... zy zx zz aaa aab
-- it's not!
Yes it is. The ++ operator generates that sequence when applied to a string,
and nothing you can say or do will alter that fact.
You're trying to treat the 2nd and 3rd
2006/6/6, Robert Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Tue, 2006-06-06 at 00:01, Martin Alterisio wrote:
Because defining ++ and and in such a way as to make them behave
like
numbers would have made them not work for alphabetizing. A string is
a
string, and comparison of strings is alphabetic
Martin Alterisio wrote:
You're right about ++ operator not to be considered a math operator, my
mistake. What I should have said is that the usual connotation and expected
behaviour of ++ and the comparison operators is to give iteration
capabilities to a certain data type, as used in a for
Martin Alterisio schrieb:
is it really worthy the functionality supplied with the string ++ operator
as it is? I don't see its usefullness yet.
guess you want to order something by name not by number which might be
false in some cases (1,10,2,20,21 ... and so on).
There it might be useful.
2006/6/6, Barry [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Martin Alterisio schrieb:
is it really worthy the functionality supplied with the string ++
operator
as it is? I don't see its usefullness yet.
guess you want to order something by name not by number which might be
false in some cases (1,10,2,20,21 ... and
2006/6/6, Rasmus Lerdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Martin Alterisio wrote:
You're right about ++ operator not to be considered a math operator, my
mistake. What I should have said is that the usual connotation and
expected
behaviour of ++ and the comparison operators is to give iteration
On Tue, 2006-06-06 at 09:46, Martin Alterisio wrote:
2006/6/6, Robert Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
In C++ they do leave it to the coder, and well, we all know what a mess
it can be deciphering overloaded operators in C++ (or maybe we ALL
don't). At any rate, the PHP overlords made a choice,
Rasmus:
At 6:54 PM -0700 6/5/06, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
tedd wrote:
For example, the Unicode issue was raised during this discussion -- if php
doesn't consider the numeric relationship of characters, then I see a big
problem waiting in the wings. Because if we're having these types of
2006/6/6, Robert Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Tue, 2006-06-06 at 09:46, Martin Alterisio wrote:
2006/6/6, Robert Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
In C++ they do leave it to the coder, and well, we all know what a
mess
it can be deciphering overloaded operators in C++ (or maybe we ALL
tedd wrote:
for I can't get it to stop when it passes z -- which I think it should.
But, people have posted code solutions for you to do exactly what you
want. So have I. Here it is again:
foreach (range('a', 'z') as $char)
{
echo $char;
}
I don't mean to sound harsh, but why are you
On Tue, 2006-06-06 at 13:05, tedd wrote:
I don't have these issues because I'm not Lithuanian. If a Lithuanian php
programmer wants y to fall between i and k in a loop, then good
luck -- for I can't get it to stop when it passes z -- which I think
it should.
This isbecause you're using the
On Tue, 2006-06-06 at 13:11, Martin Alterisio wrote:
2006/6/6, Robert Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Tue, 2006-06-06 at 09:46, Martin Alterisio wrote:
2006/6/6, Robert Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
In C++ they do leave it to the coder, and well, we all know what a
mess
it can be
At 10:38 AM 6/4/2006, tedd wrote:
for ($i=a; $iz; $i++)
{
echo($i);
}
-- it stops at y
But, if you use --
for ($i=a; $i=z; $i++)
{
echo($i);
}
-- it prints considerably more characters after z than what one
would normally expect -- why is that?
Tedd,
The discussion of PHP
At 1:14 PM -0400 6/6/06, Adam Zey wrote:
tedd wrote:
for I can't get it to stop when it passes z -- which I think it should.
But, people have posted code solutions for you to do exactly what you want. So
have I. Here it is again:
foreach (range('a', 'z') as $char)
{
echo $char;
}
I don't
2006/6/6, Robert Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Tue, 2006-06-06 at 13:11, Martin Alterisio wrote:
2006/6/6, Robert Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Tue, 2006-06-06 at 09:46, Martin Alterisio wrote:
2006/6/6, Robert Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
In C++ they do leave it to the coder,
Tedd,
The discussion of PHP strings has been interesting; thanks for sparking that.
Of course, your subject line to the contrary, it's not that z != z, it's
that storing an alphabetic character assumed to be a single byte in a variable
and then incrementing it can result in a two-byte result.
2006/6/6, tedd [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
If php is supposed to be open source, doesn't that mean that people can
voice their opinion on what they observe and expect?
I second that. I believe being open-source doesn't mean Yay, it's free!
but Cool, someone is listening to us!
On Tue, 2006-06-06 at 14:06, Martin Alterisio wrote:
2006/6/6, Robert Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
You must have missed this post:
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=php-generalm=114945456908350w=2
Yes, I haven't read that post. That algorithm has an error, an overflow
on a
tedd wrote:
snip
And I thank you for your reply -- you've been much kinder than most (on and
off-list). :-)
True the subject line was a bit misleading, but that was intentional. Bait
causes more fish to rise.
I've received the answer several times over since I posted the problem, but I
2006/6/6, Robert Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Tue, 2006-06-06 at 14:06, Martin Alterisio wrote:
2006/6/6, Robert Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
You must have missed this post:
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=php-generalm=114945456908350w=2
Yes, I haven't read that post.
At 2:20 PM -0400 6/6/06, John Nichel wrote:
tedd wrote:
snip
And I thank you for your reply -- you've been much kinder than most (on and
off-list). :-)
True the subject line was a bit misleading, but that was intentional. Bait
causes more fish to rise.
I've received the answer several times
On Tue, 2006-06-06 at 14:31, Martin Alterisio wrote:
2006/6/6, Robert Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Tue, 2006-06-06 at 14:06, Martin Alterisio wrote:
2006/6/6, Robert Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
You must have missed this post:
2006/6/6, Robert Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Tue, 2006-06-06 at 14:31, Martin Alterisio wrote:
2006/6/6, Robert Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Tue, 2006-06-06 at 14:06, Martin Alterisio wrote:
2006/6/6, Robert Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
You must have missed this post:
On Tue, 2006-06-06 at 15:11, Martin Alterisio wrote:
2006/6/6, Robert Cummings [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
You lost me there. Can you explain it a little bit further?
You said:
Still, an overload is an known issue and that can be caught
easily.
It follows that you need
On Mon, June 5, 2006 9:00 pm, tedd wrote:
Does that make more sense?
Maybe to you, but not me.
a
b
c
.
.
.
x
y
z
Richard Lynch wrote:
On Mon, June 5, 2006 9:00 pm, tedd wrote:
Does that make more sense?
Maybe to you, but not me.
a
b
c
.
.
.
x
y
On Tue, 2006-06-06 at 22:53, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
Richard Lynch wrote:
Or we try to do something a bit more creative which always runs the risk
of surprising people. In this case a2++ becomes a3 and c9++
becomes d0. If we have a character that doesn't infer any sort of
logical
I know this discussion doesn't need to continue any further..hah.. but I think
the biggest confusion people are having is that they're looking at two things
and assuming that PHP operates the same on both and these two things serve
different purposes.
1. Incrementing strings: Best example
-TG:
Thanks for your explanation and time.
Normally, I don't alpha++ anything -- not to criticize others, but to me it
doesn't make much sense to add a number to a character. But considering the
php language is so string aware, as compared to other languages, I just tried
it on a lark just
tedd wrote:
-TG:
Thanks for your explanation and time.
Normally, I don't alpha++ anything -- not to criticize others, but to me it
doesn't make much sense to add a number to a character. But considering the
php language is so string aware, as compared to other languages, I just tried
it on
On Mon, 2006-06-05 at 12:49, tedd wrote:
-TG:
Thanks for your explanation and time.
Normally, I don't alpha++ anything -- not to criticize others, but to me it
doesn't make much sense to add a number to a character. But considering the
php language is so string aware, as compared to
This is just one of those cases where the designers had to make a judgement
call on how things were going to operate. It makes sense if you look at the
two things separately (incrementing vs string 'greatness' evaluation) and makes
sense that how they chose to implement the functions are two
2006/6/5, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
This is just one of those cases where the designers had to make a
judgement call on how things were going to operate. It makes sense if you
look at the two things separately (incrementing vs string 'greatness'
evaluation) and makes sense that how
On Monday 05 June 2006 14:56, Martin Alterisio wrote:
2006/6/5, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
This is just one of those cases where the designers had to make a
judgement call on how things were going to operate. It makes sense if
you look at the two things separately (incrementing
At 1:10 PM -0400 6/5/06, Robert Cummings wrote:
NO! More must be said!!
a = z
b = z
c = z
-snip-
yx = z
yy = z
yz = z
zaz
Sooo, the comparisons stop before we get to aaa
and so aaa is never reached. za is the last comparison to occur at which
point the
tedd wrote:
For example, the Unicode issue was raised during this discussion -- if php
doesn't consider the numeric relationship of characters, then I see a big
problem waiting in the wings. Because if we're having these types of
discussions with just considering 00-7F characters, then I can
On Mon, 2006-06-05 at 21:35, tedd wrote:
At 1:10 PM -0400 6/5/06, Robert Cummings wrote:
NO! More must be said!!
a = z
b = z
c = z
-snip-
yx = z
yy = z
yz = z
zaz
Sooo, the comparisons stop before we get to aaa
and so aaa is never reached.
At 8:18 PM -0500 6/5/06, Larry Garfield wrote:
See how the comparison works? It's a purely alphabetic comparison.
As for the increment, it actually would never have occurred to me to ++ a
string before this thread, honestly. :-) However, what it appears to be
doing (and I'm sure Rasmus will
2006/6/5, Larry Garfield [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Monday 05 June 2006 14:56, Martin Alterisio wrote:
2006/6/5, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
This is just one of those cases where the designers had to make a
judgement call on how things were going to operate. It makes sense if
you
On Mon, 2006-06-05 at 22:00, tedd wrote:
At 8:18 PM -0500 6/5/06, Larry Garfield wrote:
See how the comparison works? It's a purely alphabetic comparison.
As for the increment, it actually would never have occurred to me to ++ a
string before this thread, honestly. :-) However, what it
On Monday 05 June 2006 21:12, Martin Alterisio wrote:
As for the increment, it actually would never have occurred to me to ++ a
string before this thread, honestly. :-) However, what it appears to be
doing (and I'm sure Rasmus will correct me if I'm wrong) is using a
string
base
2006/6/6, Larry Garfield [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Monday 05 June 2006 21:12, Martin Alterisio wrote:
As for the increment, it actually would never have occurred to me to
++ a
string before this thread, honestly. :-) However, what it appears to
be
doing (and I'm sure Rasmus will correct me
On Tue, 2006-06-06 at 00:01, Martin Alterisio wrote:
Because defining ++ and and in such a way as to make them behave like
numbers would have made them not work for alphabetizing. A string is a
string, and comparison of strings is alphabetic (for some definition of
alphabet). It's more
tedd wrote:
Hi gang:
Here's your opportunity to pound me again for not knowing the basics of php.
I vaguely remember something like this being discussed a while back, but can't
find the reference.
In any event, if one uses --
for ($i=a; $iz; $i++)
{
echo($i);
}
-- it stops at y
2006/6/4, Rasmus Lerdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
tedd wrote:
Hi gang:
Here's your opportunity to pound me again for not knowing the basics of
php.
I vaguely remember something like this being discussed a while back, but
can't find the reference.
In any event, if one uses --
for ($i=a; $iz;
Martin Alterisio wrote:
2006/6/4, Rasmus Lerdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
tedd wrote:
Hi gang:
Here's your opportunity to pound me again for not knowing the basics of
php.
I vaguely remember something like this being discussed a while back,
but
can't find the reference.
In any event, if one
2006/6/4, Rasmus Lerdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Martin Alterisio wrote:
2006/6/4, Rasmus Lerdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
tedd wrote:
Hi gang:
Here's your opportunity to pound me again for not knowing the basics
of
php.
I vaguely remember something like this being discussed a while back,
At 11:08 AM -0700 6/4/06, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
tedd wrote:
But, if you use --
for ($i=a; $i=z; $i++)
{
echo($i);
}
-- it prints considerably more characters after z than what one would
normally expect -- why is that?
Just stopping at z would seem to make more sense, wouldn't it? After
tedd wrote:
But, what brothers me about the routine, is that is DOES print z where it is supposed
to. In other words, the characters a-z are output before continuing with aa and so on. The
operation doesn't end with z.
Your condition for the loop to continue is $i=z.
When $i = y it will
Martin Alterisio wrote:
Still:
anything ++anything
should be true, or at least that's what they taught me on abstract data
types design, and I think they're right (at least this time)
In loosely typed languages that is not always true. Operators have to
guess at the type and try to do what
2006/6/4, Rasmus Lerdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Martin Alterisio wrote:
Still:
anything ++anything
should be true, or at least that's what they taught me on abstract data
types design, and I think they're right (at least this time)
In loosely typed languages that is not always true.
Martin Alterisio wrote:
I still don't see why this functionality should be a native operator of
the language.
It doesn't seem natural that ++ operator understands that the string
could be an enumeration of some kind. I believe that such things should
be left to the coder who knows what the
At 12:27 PM -0700 6/4/06, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
tedd wrote:
But, what brothers me about the routine, is that is DOES print z where it
is supposed to. In other words, the characters a-z are output before
continuing with aa and so on. The operation doesn't end with z.
Your condition for the loop
At 12:40 PM -0700 6/4/06, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
For example, this also works:
$filename = file1;
$filename++;
echo $filename;
You would get file2 from this. Think about the amount of code you would
need to write in C to make that work?
I would rather not. :-)
tedd
--
tedd wrote:
At 12:27 PM -0700 6/4/06, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
tedd wrote:
But, what brothers me about the routine, is that is DOES print z where it is supposed
to. In other words, the characters a-z are output before continuing with aa and so on. The
operation doesn't end with z.
Your
At 1:09 PM -0700 6/4/06, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
I agree with [1] and [2], but [3] is where we part company. You see, if you
are right, then aaa would also be less than z, but that doesn't appear so.
Of course it is.
php -r 'echo aaa z;'
1
You missed the point, why does --
for ($i=a; $i=z;
On Sun, 2006-06-04 at 16:45, tedd wrote:
At 1:09 PM -0700 6/4/06, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
I agree with [1] and [2], but [3] is where we part company. You see, if you
are right, then aaa would also be less than z, but that doesn't appear
so.
Of course it is.
php -r 'echo aaa z;'
1
On Sun, 2006-06-04 at 16:53, Robert Cummings wrote:
-- not continue past aaa? Clearly, if aaa is less than z then why
does the loop stop at yz?
Because right after 'yz' there is 'zz' and 'z' is neither less than nor
equal to 'zz'.
Err, that should say 'zz' is neither less than nor
On Sun, 2006-06-04 at 15:10, Martin Alterisio wrote:
Still:
anything ++anything
should be true, or at least that's what they taught me on abstract data
types design, and I think they're right (at least this time)
There's always limitations :)
int main( char *argv[], int argc )
{
int i
On Sunday 04 June 2006 15:04, tedd wrote:
Yes, it is my contention that strings are numerical -- you don't store A
in memory, you store 0100 001, or ASCII DEC 65.
In a low-level language like C, that matters. One doesn't have strings, one
has numbers that happen to map to a symbol.
In PHP
clip
There will always be edge cases. Being able to
increment
strings is pretty handy when you need to create
sequences for unique file
and directory names.
For example, this also works:
$filename = file1;
$filename++;
echo $filename;
You would get file2 from this. Think about
At 4:53 PM -0400 6/4/06, Robert Cummings wrote:
On Sun, 2006-06-04 at 16:45, tedd wrote:
-- not continue past aaa? Clearly, if aaa is less than z then why
does the loop stop at yz?
Because right after 'yz' there is 'zz' and 'z' is neither less than nor
equal to 'zz'.
and
At 4:37 PM -0500
tedd wrote:
At 1:09 PM -0700 6/4/06, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
I agree with [1] and [2], but [3] is where we part company. You see, if you are right, then
aaa would also be less than z, but that doesn't appear so.
Of course it is.
php -r 'echo aaa z;'
1
You missed the point, why does --
for
Larry Garfield wrote:
On Sunday 04 June 2006 15:04, tedd wrote:
Yes, it is my contention that strings are numerical -- you don't store A
in memory, you store 0100 001, or ASCII DEC 65.
In a low-level language like C, that matters. One doesn't have strings, one
has numbers that happen to
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