Re: [PHP] Re: Top Posting
Tamara Temple wrote: And then, we have the case of a signature being 3 times as long as the reply Which is less of a problem if the email client correctly trims it! I can probably come up with a list of posts just to this list where a top poster has included several signatures several times - along with all the advertising :( The bottom line is that we are not going to get any agreement on this. It's just a fact of life that people don't like to accept being told what to do so we have to live with that. But as long as lists like this are coming conveniently into my inbox *I* can do what I like with them. I have material going back to 1995 nicely manageable here even when the broadband is down so I'll put up with the irritation - actually most top posted messages can simply be culled anyway - I have the previous message listed :) -- Lester Caine - G8HFL - Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk// Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Top Posting
On 11-07-05 10:42 AM, Jim Giner wrote: outlook doesn't offer an option for that. I'm pretty sure it has a scrollbar on the side ;) Cheers, Rob. -- E-Mail Disclaimer: Information contained in this message and any attached documents is considered confidential and legally protected. This message is intended solely for the addressee(s). Disclosure, copying, and distribution are prohibited unless authorized. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Top Posting
Jim Giner wrote: outlook doesn't offer an option for that. ctrl-END gets you to the bottom of a message.
Re: [PHP] Re: Top Posting
On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 3:48 PM, Jim Giner jim.gi...@albanyhandball.comwrote: And besides - I'm sure there are PLENTY of people here who despise scrolling thru endless repeated paragraphs from a long list of posts just to get the the latest contribution to the topic.:) This newgroup may have its rules, but if bottom-posting was such a wise and preferred method, why do millions of business users subscribe to a product such as Outlook, that top-posts by default, to conduct their daily business via emails flying back and forth with the latest post at the beginning so that readers don't have to re-hash old news unless they want to? If you're looking for a sane reason why Microsoft software is popular in the business world you're not going to find one. If you're looking for a logical reason it's simply because they built software that ran on the cheapest boxes available and then put a lot of money into marketing it. That doesn't make it good software, and it certainly doesn't give them any authority over the right way to do things. This mailing list requires selective quoting and bottom posting for the following reasons... 1) It provides context to that contributors' contribution without requiring the rest of the thread. 2) There is no second reason. That's it, and it's a strong argument. I use gmail for mailing lists and as such have access to the complete thread in a logical format. The most popular email clients don't feature decent threading, if any at all. Would you seriously rather wade through a date-sorted list to work out what the hell the latest email is talking about and responding to? As an example, your email to which I am replying starts And besides... Erm, besides what? While a stretch of an example I think it illustrates the point. In addition, these emails we send back and forth get archived on more websites than you know about, and they're usually near the top of results for any search you'll do for help with PHP. Upon visiting one of these results, is it more helpful for that single page to contain the relevant parts of the thread or do you really think it's better to have that page only contain that one post and links to the rest of the thread? If you really side with the latter, consider that a lot of the more useful threads on this list end up covering a number of different subjects in its various branches. Public archive requirements don't generally apply to business users - very few of them are generous/daft enough to publish their emails. It's also worth pointing out that for me, top posting in the business world annoys me just as must as bottom posting annoys you in this world. One final thing... you keep calling this a newsgroup. The PHP mailing lists are mailing lists first, and a newsgroup second - that's kinda why they're called the PHP mailing lists. -Stuart -- Stuart Dallas 3ft9 Ltd http://3ft9.com/
Re: [PHP] Re: Top Posting
On Tue, Jul 05, 2011 at 10:48:34AM -0400, Jim Giner wrote: And besides - I'm sure there are PLENTY of people here who despise scrolling thru endless repeated paragraphs from a long list of posts just to get the the latest contribution to the topic.:) This newgroup may have its rules, but if bottom-posting was such a wise and preferred method, why do millions of business users subscribe to a product such as Outlook, that top-posts by default, to conduct their daily business via emails flying back and forth with the latest post at the beginning so that readers don't have to re-hash old news unless they want to? Seriously? That behavior is dictated by Microsoft and could be simply a shortcut, making it easier on Microsoft. (They don't have to scan down the email and place the cursor at the end of the email. They can just put it at the top, easy-peasy.) Or it could have been dictated by Bill Gates, who didn't want to scroll down. One thing's for sure: Microsoft's rarely met a standard they liked or willingly followed. Business users simply went along with this behavior, mostly because they had no knowledge of anything else. It was the default behavior of the only email client that came with their operating system. They learned to live with it and even appreciate it. My point is, I seriously doubt that business users (who were not the original target audience for Outlook) dictated to Microsoft that they arrange their email client so that the cursor defaulted to the top. And by many accounts, Outlook (et al) is an appalling broken email client for many reasons. Business users don't subscribe to the Microsoft email client. It comes with their operating system for free and it pretty much does what they want, even if it has gaping holes in it. Why retrain and spend billions to install something else on every computer in their company? A similar question might be, if Unix/Linux is so great, why do millions of business owners stick with Windows year after year? Answer: because it comes with their computer and pretty much does what they want. And Microsoft actively blocks, discourages and prevents the installation of any other operating system on hardware from anyone they can possibly control. Questioning bottom-posting is one thing. Holding up the widespread adoption of Outlook as a reason why top-posting is superior (because business people demand it) is silly. No offense, but it's pretty weak reasoning. Paul -- Paul M. Foster http://noferblatz.com http://quillandmouse.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Top Posting
not what he was asking for. Curtis Maurand cur...@maurand.com wrote in message news:4e7755d57a7a032c39e44598f3660ac7.squir...@www.xyonet.com... Jim Giner wrote: outlook doesn't offer an option for that. ctrl-END gets you to the bottom of a message. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Top Posting
Actually business user do subscribe to use Outlook as their client. It does not come with the OS, it is purchased on a per seat basis by every corporation using it in the form of a license. On the other hand Outlook Express is available as part of the os, or is easily obtained for free. It is not however the preferred 'business' client for those stuck on M$ products. Paul M Foster pa...@quillandmouse.com wrote in message news:20110705152457.gk21...@quillandmouse.com... Business users don't subscribe to the Microsoft email client. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Top Posting
Stuart Dallas stu...@3ft9.com wrote in message If you're looking for a sane reason why Microsoft software is popular in the business world you're not going to find one. No - you missed my statement's point. Not looking for anything - just saying it is what it is. You won't find me defending M$ software designs - I was simply pointing out that the product is setup that way and nobody over the years has made any effort (?) to have it altered. I wonder why. :) One final thing... you keep calling this a newsgroup. The PHP mailing lists are mailing lists first, and a newsgroup second - that's kinda why they're called the PHP mailing lists. It looks like all the newsgroups I've ever belonged to. It acts like a newsgroup. And - funny ha ha - its name begins with the word news, not mailing. BTW - what does a mailing list look like? AND - instead of coming down on people who top post, why not come down on the vast majority of people of DON'T post ONLY the pertinent part(s) of the past emails in their own response? Cutting down on the amount of chaff in the postings here would certainly eliminate the biggest reluctance to having to bottom-post. To scroll thru 60-100 lines of quoted and re-quoted text only to read a two line contribution is tedious and wasteful. Let the new mantra be - Snip Your Posts! PS - note the bottom post. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Top Posting
On 5 July 2011 16:48, Jim Giner jim.gi...@albanyhandball.com wrote: Let the new mantra be - Snip Your Posts! Consider your post snipped. OOI. If you use Google Mail, highlighting the part of the message you want to use and then clicking reply-all will embed only that part in the reply. -- Richard Quadling Twitter : EE : Zend : PHPDoc @RQuadling : e-e.com/M_248814.html : bit.ly/9O8vFY : bit.ly/lFnVea -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Top Posting
On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 4:48 PM, Jim Giner jim.gi...@albanyhandball.comwrote: Stuart Dallas stu...@3ft9.com wrote in message If you're looking for a sane reason why Microsoft software is popular in the business world you're not going to find one. No - you missed my statement's point. Not looking for anything - just saying it is what it is. You won't find me defending M$ software designs - I was simply pointing out that the product is setup that way and nobody over the years has made any effort (?) to have it altered. I wonder why. :) I didn't miss the point. As I said later on, mailing lists with archives have different requirements to business users - you can't compare the two. In addition, most business users live with what they're given because they don't have a loud enough voice. I'd also bet good money that most people haven't even considered the possibility of doing it differently. One final thing... you keep calling this a newsgroup. The PHP mailing lists are mailing lists first, and a newsgroup second - that's kinda why they're called the PHP mailing lists. It looks like all the newsgroups I've ever belonged to. It acts like a newsgroup. And - funny ha ha - its name begins with the word news, not mailing. BTW - what does a mailing list look like? http://php.net/mailing-lists - this is what you're reading. They're also available as newsgroups on our news server. Note that they're not newsgroups that are also available as mailing lists. A mailing list server is a managed one-to-many distribution system. Google it! AND - instead of coming down on people who top post, why not come down on the vast majority of people of DON'T post ONLY the pertinent part(s) of the past emails in their own response? Cutting down on the amount of chaff in the postings here would certainly eliminate the biggest reluctance to having to bottom-post. To scroll thru 60-100 lines of quoted and re-quoted text only to read a two line contribution is tedious and wasteful. When you post at the top of a thread where most people have bottom posted, that's a bigger problem than untrimmed quotes. Find out what key combination gets you to the end of the message in your OS and learn how to use it. Oh, and bear in mind that you may miss inline responses by skipping to the end. Oh, so you're saying that the need to cut out the chaff is what stops you from bothering to cut out the chaff? Curious logic at work there. PS - note the bottom post. *clap* *clap* You after a medal or summink?!! -Stuart -- Stuart Dallas 3ft9 Ltd http://3ft9.com/
Re: [PHP] Re: Top Posting
Again, please include the list when replying! On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 4:56 PM, Jim Giner jim.gi...@albanyhandball.comwrote: ** if they weren't on the list, then how did they get involved in the first place? You don't need to be subscribed to post. I see the bottom posting lasted a headline-worthy amount of time! -Stuart -- Stuart Dallas 3ft9 Ltd http://3ft9.com/
Re: [PHP] Re: Top Posting
Stuart Dallas stu...@3ft9.com wrote in message news:CAJgGj58OkZLiakMMo8qmuhg68BamYOi+TLNGyzze=iyppbj...@mail.gmail.com... Again, please include the list when replying! But don't include the poster's email if you're replying to the list! -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Top Posting
On 5 July 2011 17:08, Stuart Dallas stu...@3ft9.com wrote: Again, please include the list when replying! On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 4:56 PM, Jim Giner jim.gi...@albanyhandball.comwrote: ** if they weren't on the list, then how did they get involved in the first place? And Jim, your anti-spam measures are spamming me. So, I've blocked your anti-spam as spam. -- Richard Quadling Twitter : EE : Zend : PHPDoc @RQuadling : e-e.com/M_248814.html : bit.ly/9O8vFY : bit.ly/lFnVea -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Top Posting
On Jul 5, 2011, at 12:06, Stuart Dallas stu...@3ft9.com wrote: On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 4:48 PM, Jim Giner jim.gi...@albanyhandball.comwrote: Stuart Dallas stu...@3ft9.com wrote in message If you're looking for a sane reason why Microsoft software is popular in the business world you're not going to find one. No - you missed my statement's point. Not looking for anything - just saying it is what it is. You won't find me defending M$ software designs - I was simply pointing out that the product is setup that way and nobody over the years has made any effort (?) to have it altered. I wonder why. :) I didn't miss the point. As I said later on, mailing lists with archives have different requirements to business users - you can't compare the two. In addition, most business users live with what they're given because they don't have a loud enough voice. I'd also bet good money that most people haven't even considered the possibility of doing it differently. One final thing... you keep calling this a newsgroup. The PHP mailing lists are mailing lists first, and a newsgroup second - that's kinda why they're called the PHP mailing lists. It looks like all the newsgroups I've ever belonged to. It acts like a newsgroup. And - funny ha ha - its name begins with the word news, not mailing. BTW - what does a mailing list look like? http://php.net/mailing-lists - this is what you're reading. They're also available as newsgroups on our news server. Note that they're not newsgroups that are also available as mailing lists. A mailing list server is a managed one-to-many distribution system. Google it! AND - instead of coming down on people who top post, why not come down on the vast majority of people of DON'T post ONLY the pertinent part(s) of the past emails in their own response? Cutting down on the amount of chaff in the postings here would certainly eliminate the biggest reluctance to having to bottom-post. To scroll thru 60-100 lines of quoted and re-quoted text only to read a two line contribution is tedious and wasteful. When you post at the top of a thread where most people have bottom posted, that's a bigger problem than untrimmed quotes. Find out what key combination gets you to the end of the message in your OS and learn how to use it. Oh, and bear in mind that you may miss inline responses by skipping to the end. Oh, so you're saying that the need to cut out the chaff is what stops you from bothering to cut out the chaff? Curious logic at work there. PS - note the bottom post. *clap* *clap* You after a medal or summink?!! -Stuart -- Stuart Dallas 3ft9 Ltd http://3ft9.com/ Don't forget that apple mail doesn't have an option for default bottom posting and the indents suck. (yes I have a Mac) Logically, to developers bottom posting makes more sense, but to businesses, they don't want to cut scroll and quote, so top posting became big. The preference is that of the administrators and the community or business just need to deal with it. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Top Posting
On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 5:10 PM, Jim Giner jim.gi...@albanyhandball.comwrote: Stuart Dallas stu...@3ft9.com wrote in message news:CAJgGj58OkZLiakMMo8qmuhg68BamYOi+TLNGyzze=iyppbj...@mail.gmail.com... Again, please include the list when replying! But don't include the poster's email if you're replying to the list! The guidelines say I should, and I try to be a good netizen. This discussion is going nowhere, so I'm out. -Stuart -- Stuart Dallas 3ft9 Ltd http://3ft9.com/
Re: [PHP] Re: Top Posting
On 5 July 2011 17:10, Jim Giner jim.gi...@albanyhandball.com wrote: Stuart Dallas stu...@3ft9.com wrote in message news:CAJgGj58OkZLiakMMo8qmuhg68BamYOi+TLNGyzze=iyppbj...@mail.gmail.com... Again, please include the list when replying! But don't include the poster's email if you're replying to the list! But that is what reply-all is about. Person A sends an message to List B. I reply-all and Person A and List B get replies. Hmm. GMail sucks at this. Reply should be first Reply-To-List. Having said that, the PHP lists should proxy the sender so a reply is to the list and not the original poster. -- Richard Quadling Twitter : EE : Zend : PHPDoc @RQuadling : e-e.com/M_248814.html : bit.ly/9O8vFY : bit.ly/lFnVea -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Top Posting
If you resisted sending what amounts to a duplicate email to the posters who are 'on' the list, you wouldn't have to deal with spam filters. Don't understand the purpose of a reply all when in essence our replies are to the list wherein the topic originated. Those on the list will surely see any and all posts without having another one in their inbox, won't they? Richard Quadling rquadl...@gmail.com wrote in message news:CAKUjMCW9rcqZodVe7dx2R9Rew5bQ5-5xcHgHxMmtzqc_z=a...@mail.gmail.com... And Jim, your anti-spam measures are spamming me. So, I've blocked your anti-spam as spam. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Top Posting
Richard Quadling rquadl...@gmail.com wrote in message news:CAKUjMCVbhbXO=ngr1lnzo-6fdahdj-r8hc73b-esotfqg+k...@mail.gmail.com... But that is what reply-all is about. Person A sends an message to List B. I reply-all and Person A and List B get replies. Hmm. A new level of complexity! A person sends to the list, hoping for a response, but fails to subscribe to the list? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Top Posting
On 7/5/2011 9:11 AM, Richard Quadling wrote: And Jim, your anti-spam measures are spamming me. So, I've blocked your anti-spam as spam. I noticed this the other day and I blocked him as well. Maybe this is why his mail server IP is listed as a source of spam... http://www.mxtoolbox.com/SuperTool.aspx?action=blacklist%3a64.118.87.45 Jim Lucas -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Top Posting
It's certainly not spam - it's a spam filter offered by my ISP and works great. The mail you are getting from it is a query asking you to reply if you are real and once you do, you'll never get the request again. Jim Lucas li...@cmsws.com wrote in message news:4e134676.7090...@cmsws.com... On 7/5/2011 9:11 AM, Richard Quadling wrote: And Jim, your anti-spam measures are spamming me. So, I've blocked your anti-spam as spam. I noticed this the other day and I blocked him as well. Maybe this is why his mail server IP is listed as a source of spam... http://www.mxtoolbox.com/SuperTool.aspx?action=blacklist%3a64.118.87.45 Jim Lucas -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Top Posting
Jim Giner jim.gi...@albanyhandball.com wrote: It's certainly not spam - it's a spam filter offered by my ISP and works great. The mail you are getting from it is a query asking you to reply if you are real and once you do, you'll never get the request again. Jim Lucas li...@cmsws.com wrote in message news:4e134676.7090...@cmsws.com... On 7/5/2011 9:11 AM, Richard Quadling wrote: And Jim, your anti-spam measures are spamming me. So, I've blocked your anti-spam as spam. I noticed this the other day and I blocked him as well. Maybe this is why his mail server IP is listed as a source of spam... http://www.mxtoolbox.com/SuperTool.aspx?action=blacklist%3a64.118.87.45 Jim Lucas -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php I've seen fake messages do that before as a way of harvesting good live email addresses, so I regard all such messages spam now. Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Top Posting
Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk wrote in message news:21e916f2-2a1f-4982-bc4d-9a574da92...@email.android.com... I've seen fake messages do that before as a way of harvesting good live email addresses, so I regard all such messages spam now. oh, well... -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Top Posting
Business e-mail did not start with Outlook. Businesses have been using e-mail long before it even showed up as an option. The de jure standard on the Internet before that time, and before several other clients came about was either bottom posting or intermixed responses. This was true in e-mail, Usenet postings, and other similar things. Mailing lists have been around for a long, long time and the reasons things are done that way is pretty well established. Now, however, not everyone who comes along is aware of and certainly was not party to the discussions that happened back then about how best to do things. But there are reasons beyond just mere it's the way we do it and most certainly beyond it's the way my mail client acts. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] Re: Top Posting
-Original Message- From: Jim Giner [mailto:jim.gi...@albanyhandball.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 1:53 PM To: php-general@lists.php.net Subject: Re: [PHP] Re: Top Posting Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk wrote in message news:21e916f2-2a1f-4982-bc4d-9a574da92...@email.android.com... I've seen fake messages do that before as a way of harvesting good live email addresses, so I regard all such messages spam now. oh, well... -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php I have made a few changes in Outlook to make this a little easier. Since this is the only time I would ever bottom post. I will manually do it, I am sorry but Outlook should have an option for this I was not complaining about bottom posting I just thought maybe someone knew a setting to make it happen in outlook. :) Happy FRY Casey Anthony Day! -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] Re: Top Posting
On Tue, 2011-07-05 at 14:04 -0400, ad...@buskirkgraphics.com wrote: -Original Message- From: Jim Giner [mailto:jim.gi...@albanyhandball.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 1:53 PM To: php-general@lists.php.net Subject: Re: [PHP] Re: Top Posting Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk wrote in message news:21e916f2-2a1f-4982-bc4d-9a574da92...@email.android.com... I've seen fake messages do that before as a way of harvesting good live email addresses, so I regard all such messages spam now. oh, well... -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php I have made a few changes in Outlook to make this a little easier. Since this is the only time I would ever bottom post. I will manually do it, I am sorry but Outlook should have an option for this I was not complaining about bottom posting I just thought maybe someone knew a setting to make it happen in outlook. :) Happy FRY Casey Anthony Day! There is another way... Have you looked into using Evolution as an email client? It's what I use on Linux, and the last time I checked there were Windows binaries available for it. It connect to MS Exchange Server if that's what you use in the office, it's completely free, and it lets you set up your posting options very easily. It also looks very similar to Outlook, although it behaves itself a darn sight better, and tends not to crash or drop connections as much as Outlook, oh and there are the added security benefits you get when you realise that email viruses tend to be targeting MS products! -- Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
Re: [PHP] Re: Top Posting
On Jul 5, 2011, at 1:14 PM, Ashley Sheridan wrote: Have you looked into using Evolution as an email client? It's what I use on Linux, and the last time I checked there were Windows binaries available for it. It connect to MS Exchange Server if that's what you use in the office, it's completely free, and it lets you set up your posting options very easily. It also looks very similar to Outlook, although it behaves itself a darn sight better, and tends not to crash or drop connections as much as Outlook, oh and there are the added security benefits you get when you realise that email viruses tend to be targeting MS products! This may or may not be an option for people -- when I was working at a business, I did not get to have a choice about what email client I used, nor much choice about any other software. In fact, I was chastized for loading cygwin onto my laptop because it wasn't an authorized piece of software. However, I learned long ago to only use my work machine for work emails, and had other systems for getting at email and Usenet and the rest of network that did not involve the use of my employer's machine and software. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: Top Posting
On Jul 5, 2011, at 4:37 PM, Michelle Konzack wrote: Imagine here a quoting of 200 lines and then a ME TOO! Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening Michelle Konzack -- # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant ## Development of Intranet and Embedded Systems with Debian GNU/Linux itsystems@tdnet Franceitsystems@tdnet Owner Michelle KonzackOwner Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 (homeoffice) Gewerbe Straße 3 50, rue de Soultz 77694 Kehl/Germany 67100 Strasbourg/France Tel: +49-177-9351947 mobil Tel: +33-6-61925193 mobil Tel: +49-176-86004575 office http://www.itsystems.tamay-dogan.net/ http://www.flexray4linux.org/ http://www.debian.tamay-dogan.net/ http://www.can4linux.org/ Jabber linux4miche...@jabber.ccc.de ICQ#328449886 Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ And then, we have the case of a signature being 3 times as long as the reply -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
