Mikael Byström suggested:
to accept that we are a smaller, most likely more vocal, strata of the
user base.
And go from there, I might add.
Mikael
Tech facts:
PM 5.5.3 Swedish | OS X 10.4.5 | Powerbook G4/550Mhz | 1GB RAM | 80GB HD
Rick Lecoat said:
Well, if you want 100 percent accuracy then you have to poll every
single user of Powermail on every single question that comes up for
discussion. That is clearly near-impossible, and certainly ludicrously
impractical. If even a single PM user's opinions are omitted from the
Rick Lecoat suggested:
Which means that we are talking about statistical approximations here,
just as most marketing decisions are, and, that being the case, I repeat
my notion that this list can serve as a practical cross section of the
user base. Is it completely accurate? Of course not. But I
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Hash: SHA1
On 4/25/2007 10:58 PM, Matthias Schmidt wrote:
Am/On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 17:52:35 -0400 schrieb/wrote Winston Weinmann:
A user forum does not have that problem, but of course does not push
questions out to users. A forum also keeps a more readily
That's your answer?
Oh, Mikael.
Or should I call you 'Mr Spock'?
; -)
Rick
--
G5 2GHz x2 :: 2GB RAM :: 10.4.7 :: PM 5.5.2 :: 3 pane mode
--
Original message:
Received from Mikael Byström on 26/4/07 at 13:42
Rick Lecoat said:
Well, if you want 100 percent accuracy then you have to poll
Rick Lecoat said:
That's your answer?
Oh, Mikael.
Or should I call you 'Mr Spock'?
; -)
What else could I say?
That CTM could, do and probably should lend an ear to this list is
obvious. For us on this list to assume it's a practical cross-section
of the user base is something else entirely.
Tim Lapin (sympatico) said this:
It is true that a web based forum will never be as fast or as clean in
the interface as a text based mailing list but...
Forums are only as slow as the load originating from them and the speed
of the receiving computer.
Yes, but as one reason for me why I am
Wayne Brissette said:
And as an old timer myself. I'm just as tired of people trying to make
PM an HTML email client.
It's not about that at all, it's really about giving PowerMail the
ability to cope with the fact that it's not uncommon that people ( Some
of these being folks that you have to
Mikael Byström sez:
That's a given. However, whether it's a majority of customers are
affected by an issue or not is not something you should pretend to know
anything about, Michael. This list is NOT all PowerMail users. What do
you know how other users unknown to you are affected?
Hey, Mikael.
It's not about that at all, it's really about giving PowerMail the
ability to cope with the fact that it's not uncommon that people ( Some
of these being folks that you have to deal with) send HTML-messages.
Thanks for the insight into the people I have to deal with. ;-)
I think there is
Clearly this list is not all Powermail users. However, in the absence of
direct input from every single PM user out there, can we not, for the
purposes of discussion and friendly debate, assume that this list
represents something approaching a representative cross section of the
user base and
Michael Lewis said it like this:
Again, I never said that. If you can go back through my messages and
show specifically where I said the issue was not real instead of
speaking to my own experience and how I worked around that, then feel
free to do so. I don't think you can.
I didn't specifically
Rick Lecoat said:
However, in the absence of
direct input from every single PM user out there, can we not, for the
purposes of discussion and friendly debate, assume that this list
represents something approaching a representative cross section of the
user base and proceed on that basis?
No we
This is a mailing list which broadcasts to all members, whether the
topic is of interest or not. The list discourages some people from
joining simply to avoid one more thing clogging their in box. I joined
for a time last year, then abandoned the list for that reason. I may
leave it again for the
Well, if you want 100 percent accuracy then you have to poll every
single user of Powermail on every single question that comes up for
discussion. That is clearly near-impossible, and certainly ludicrously
impractical. If even a single PM user's opinions are omitted from the
statistical data then
Am/On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 17:52:35 -0400 schrieb/wrote Winston Weinmann:
A user forum does not have that problem, but of course does not push
questions out to users. A forum also keeps a more readily available
history, and provides a place for evolving FAQ answers. I have
wondered why CTM used a
Not necessarily. See the Dealmac forum:
http://forums.dealmac.com/list.php?4
- Winston
Matthias Schmidt wrote:
Forums are slow and have all that blinky pinky stuff.
It is inconvenient it just s*cks.
I definitely prefer a mailing list.
But we have also an achive:
Hiro
I can confirm that I also do NOT have this problem (perhaps you are the
only one!) One thing I love about PowerMail is that it usually can track
an attachment link even after I move the attachment to another folder
and rename the file. (Though I usually have to quit and relaunch the
Winston Weinmann sez:
I said in an earlier message that
I appreciated your input on what works for you, and thanked you for the
comment on CTM not discussing future plans.
That's true. Sorry for my weak moment there. I just didn't feel things
were as being portrayed, and I had had a bad day. I
Besides I too feel HTML printing issue is a problem and needs to be
taken care of, whether you call it bug or not, there is something else.
I do handful of beta testings for many different vendors. The beta
testing lists often depends on inline images. PM can't display them
unless the original
[Michael Lewis [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb am 19.4.2007 um 15:28 Uhr:]
But I don't care. I said I print through my web browser when I want to
print an HTML mail. And that is very rarely.
Me too. Nothing could be more uninteresting for me. I do not print
mails. I rarely print at all.
lG
Subhash
Hmm.
I've been following this thread for the last couple of days and I'm
surprised that many of the people contributing to it are taking a stance
that seems to be: this is not a problem in my own workflow, so I fail
to see that it should be a problem in yours. The implication would seem
to be that
[Rick Lecoat [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb am 20.4.2007 um 12:09 Uhr:]
this is not a problem in my own workflow, so I fail
to see that it should be a problem in yours.
I only wanted to tell that this is not a self evident problem. Winston
was surprised that so few people cared about this bug. I do
Rick -
Thanks for your words of support.
While I do find the printing problem annoying, I am surprised that
people who like PowerMail don't think that a significant flaw (bug) in
the program, which minimally affects them, is important.
Significant flaws hurt sales of software. Existing users
Rick Lecoat sez:
this is not a problem in my own workflow, so I fail
to see that it should be a problem in yours.
That is not my stance at all. However, if a majority of the customers do
not have an issue, then that probably makes it a lower priority issue
for a small company like CTM that must
Rick Lecoat on 4/20/07 said
Is this something that I actually care about? No, because as I said, I
hardly ever print any sort of email. But Winston cares about it, and I
think that he is right to (and *has* every right to). He's not out of
line here.
I *do* care that a valid concern by a list
Someone said CTM added HTML viewing by customer request. If so many
people wanted HTML viewing, then it makes sense that they might want
printing too. CTM implemented printing of HTML documents, but it does
not work properly. Do we laud CTM for putting in flawed printing
features, or wonder why
Winston Weinmann sez:
Has anyone else noticed that mail composed in HTML sometimes is hard to
read when rendered in text because the layout does not work well in text?
It'll do that if the mail client doesn't follow the protocols and
provide a text version that goes with the HTML version.
And I
Michael Lewis wrote:
I provided what I do the few times I need
to print HTML mail, and this is all I get back?
Michael, I am sorry you feel that way. I said in an earlier message that
I appreciated your input on what works for you, and thanked you for the
comment on CTM not discussing future
users.
PowerMail leaves printing activated when in fact it does not work.
That's a bug, not a feature.
- Winston
as this is actually a funny thread yes, us discussing the fact if
it's a bug or feature is somewhat funny because the person who want's it
printed in the end probably does not care
After reviewing CTM's web site I can't find any reference to HTML at all.
My comments relate to not following Mac standards, and confusing
operation. They have nothing to do with as advertised, but with the
program I am using.
HTML mail is not a mac standard. In fact, it is NOT an email
This is not an issue of whether HTML mail is or is not an email
standard. The issue is that PowerMail does not print correctly something
it can display. If PowerMail displayed JPEGs, PDFs or PowerPoint slides
I'd expect it to print them correctly (not that I need or want PowerMail
to display those
do you think users would accept this behavior from any other
mainstream Mac program without complaining? What if Word could not print
RTF files correctly, since they are not Word format files?
Of course you picked the wrong file format for the wrong product. ;-)
RTF is of course a MS creation
On 4/19/07, at 8:28 AM, Wayne Brissette [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
You really have two options at this point. Either use the workaround of
viewing and printing in a web browser, or switch to another email
client. I doubt that a ton of effort is going to be spent on this issue
because most of us
You must not have four children in three schools all of whom attend
various games, practices, parties, classes and other events in obscure
locations. Or live in a city where directions are needed often.
Then there are school instructions, lists of dates for the above
activities, invitations,
I've been watching this discussion with interest. I've been using
PowerMail for a while now, and I've recommended it to many people, but
I'm gradually making the transition to Thunderbird -- I've got it on my
laptop now -- still using PowerMail on my desktop. The two main reasons...
1.
Winston Weinmann on 4/19/07 said
Wayne wrote:
I doubt that a ton of effort is going to be spent on this issue
because most of us don't really use that feature often and I, and I'm
sure others, would rather see CTM Dev spend their time improving or
fixing other issues rather than HTML email.
Winston Weinmann on 4/19/07 said
You must not have four children in three schools all of whom attend
various games, practices, parties, classes and other events in obscure
locations. Or live in a city where directions are needed often.
Then there are school instructions, lists of dates for the
I don't carry a PDA and don't carry my iBook with me everywhere. Nor do
I hang it on the refrigerator or on one of the clips we use for each
child. Again, I am concerned with PowerMail printing, not how I organize
the rest of my life.
- Winston
Barbara Needham wrote:
Winston Weinmann on
I can print text emails. I know how to switch to text from HTML. I trash
most all-image emails (even from places like schools) without looking at
them. I'd rather have all-text email.
But PowerMail still does not properly print what it can display, and the
way it does it is less than helpful.
Wayne Brissette said:
improving or fixing other issues rather than HTML email.
But the issue is *printing* HTML-messages, nothing else. And since when
is it useful to discuss what CTM should use time for or not? We can
discuss the merits of any approach, but its CTM's call what to
prioritize,
Marlyse Comte said:
maybe I am getting old or maybe I am getting just tired of the old same
old same why is this not an html email application... because it's not
and never has been and I just feel if that is what people want to begin
with, well why do they even get powermail in the first place
Barbara Needham sez:
Also, I do not think it makes CTM look professional to have such an
obvious bug. It certainly prevents me from recommending PowerMail to
others, even if I keep using it. The problem is too quirky for new users
to have to deal with.
Apparently it doesn't bother a lot of us,
Michael Lewis wrote:
Why should I care if my email program can print HTML as long as
one click takes me to a browser that does?
PowerMail pretends to print HTML email properly, and does not warn users
that it does not. I am not complaining that PM does not print HTML. I am
complaining that
Wayne Brissette wrote:
And as an old timer myself. I'm just as tired of people trying to make
PM an HTML email client. Having a text email client has so many
advantages that I'm not sure where to begin. Probably the two most
important are that there is no way of faking people out and trying to
Winston Weinmann sez:
You should care because if you are like many people, your email is an
important part of your life. If CTM does not consider such a basic
feature worth fixing, don't you worry about how CTM will deal with less
obvious but perhaps more consequential problems?
But I don't
Michael Lewis wrote:
I'm just providing my experience and a possible
workaround if you really wish to continue using PM for whatever features
you do like while waiting for CTM to fix this one. (A clue: they rarely
say what they are working on. They aren't a large company. They may or
may not be
as this is actually a funny thread yes, us discussing the fact if
it's a bug or feature is somewhat funny because the person who want's it
printed in the end probably does not care how it is called in the first
place, but on the other hand, 2 people calling something a bug when it's
using
standard Mac commands, and in fact prints incorrectly using standard
procedure, has a bug in it. I expect EVERY Mac program to use Apple's
standard setup for printing. So do most Mac users.
PowerMail leaves printing activated when in fact it does not work.
That's a bug, not a feature
to use Apple's
standard setup for printing. So do most Mac users.
PowerMail leaves printing activated when in fact it does not work.
That's a bug, not a feature.
- Winston
as this is actually a funny thread yes, us discussing the fact if
it's a bug or feature is somewhat funny because
add 1 line to your existing filter (for your wife): after the resend
action add 'set status to unread' - this should bold it again. not sure
if it will show in the recent window (I doubt it though), but the folder
for your wife should show bold.
Thank you, I hadn't found these Mail Action
cool that it works! that the message shows in the Recent Mail window
surprises me - I had not expected this, but definitely think this neat
and useful (and good to know).
---marlyse
-- original message(s) follows --
add 1 line to your existing filter (for your wife):
Is this a bug or feature?
I don't think either, just the way it works (as you are applying an
action via filter to the mail, it is as if it was read).
More important, is there a way to make sure that mail 'actioned' in
this way, stays marked 'unread'?
add 1 line to your existing filter
but her mail/folder is not
bolded. It also does not show in the Recent Mail window. This means
that I have to look for it deliberately. Sometimes I suffer a senior
moment and fail to look
Is this a bug or feature? More important, is there a way to make sure
that mail 'actioned
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