Re: [PEDA] Gerber woes
I got caught out on this myself, so I downloaded a gerber spec from the web somewhere. Specifically, the line means: %ADAperture description D34Name of the aperture P, It's a regular polygon 0.063X Size of the polygon 8X It's has 8 sides 0 NOT rotated *% End of description The printout I have suggests that for no rotation, do not use the rotation parameter. IMHO it sounds like the manufacturer's interpretation of the gerber data is not correct. Kiernan F Quoting Kulajew Waldemar [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello all. Is there any GerberGURU out there? I got a call from my board house just some minutes ago. They tells me the extended gerber file I send them is buggy. There seam to be an octagonal pad showing up rotated with 22,5 degrees. That, naturally, causes shorts to the surrounding Polygon. In fact it seams to be in the extended gerber file itself. Caused by the line %ADD34P,0.063X8X0*% in the header,. So here is my question: has anybody out there heard about a similar behavior? And is there a workaround? Yes I know one: do not use octagnal pads. ;-) But is there an other? Just wanted to push up the traffic on PEDA-forum before I jump into my weekend. ;-) Any advice appreciate when I comme back to fight with the Problems on Monday morning. Cheers, Waldemar * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:proteledaforum;techservinc.com * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:ForumAdministrator;TechServInc.com * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum;techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Hard Look at other Programms
Out of curiosity, without commenting on all your points individually, have you seen anything in Boardmaker that cannot be done, one way or another in P99SE? It depends how much you look to automating things. I have previously controlled via tenting under BGAs by editing the gerbers in an external editor, but I'd rather the CAD system did it for me (and remembered for next time). For the star earth return feature, in Protel, you can route the nets and then go back and edt the schematic to join them together or you can short them on the PCB and live with the design rule errors. Pin swapping can be done in the schematic etc but it's nice to do on the PCB. Place from schematic is a feature that's neat where you click at a schematic part and place it in the PCB, but there is obviously a perfectly satisfactory way to place parts on a PCB in Protel, though not by dragging them from the schematic. I'm not expert enough on either package to give a full answer and one way or another, there's probably not a lot in it. I am a believer in NO hidden pins. If there is a connection, you should see it. Agreed, though the dynamic text (which is one of the options) makes the schematic much neater in some cases and it's stll explicit. Regarding leases and support, I don't have a problem paying for a lease if I think I getting something for my money. I've had two (possibly three) updates in six months so I figure I'm getting support and quite frankyl what's the difference between a lease and ATS? What happens if you don't pay for the ATS? It isn't clear. Anyone considering spending 5000 on software (which is 20 years of a 250 lease), should wonder what they'll be doing/using in 20 years time and how much maintenance they'll have paid in the interim to keep it up to date. Kiernan Fitzpatrick * Tracking #: 409CC70FD796F24CAC1F395D07DBFBB2875B7DD8 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Hard Look at other Programms
I just thought I'd throw you guys my 2c worth and another option. Around 6 months ago I found myself in a position where I needed to do some design work at home - we use Protel98 at work - so I downloaded the demo for 99SE and started to use it. Disapointingly, I came across the some of the same issues that I see at work and started to look around before stumping up. I contacted several companies including a UK company called Tsien (spelt like that) and when I mentioned that I was looking at Protel, they quite literally gave me a full copy of their system on trial for 6 months, no questions asked. It has some features missing, in particular, there's no autorouter, but it's got some features that leave others standing: Very impressive plane and split plane control with an automatic thermal break generation tool and a built-in plane viewing facility. Trace ploughing is dynamic!! no repouring polygons at all. True rotation of SMD parts by any angle - even polygon and rectangular pads get plotted correctly in the gerber (this has been a great bugbear for me in the past because I often design irregularly shaped boards). Pin swapping from the PCB editor with automatic back annotation of the schematic. Bill of Materials export to CSV format and reverse field stuffing in parts from excel Via tenting control on an individual basis - really useful for those BGAs In the (integrated) schematic tool, they've got a mechanism for getting power connetions displayed on a part by part basis. No more hidden connections and no more explicit power pins to be connected (Hooray). The text with the power (global as they call it) connections changes automatically if you the connections. Annotation of parts is completely under user control although the mechansim for creating the parts in the first takes some getting your head round. There are loads of tools that I haven't played with. In particular, I've just had a realease from them which has a star earth return feature to allow nets to be connected without erroneous DRC errors. Not played with it yet. It's coming to the crunch time when my free trial license runs out and Craig Elison's comments exactly matched what I thought at the beginning - I could fall in love with it and then find I can't afford it. I also would have wasted my time evaluating the demo. I asked the Tsien people again and again about the pricing. It is leased at 250 a year which includes all the new versions, no capital outlay - it's pin money. For the record, I have no personal connections with Tsien. Kiernan Fitzpatrick * Tracking #: CD32527E7C1D9C46B123E98DD4928916F7058F29 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Protel DXP beta testing
Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [Snip] Within a short time, though, will come another entrepeneur who recognizes the void which Protel has left, and fills it with tools which advance the state of the art, at a price which fits the vast numbers of small shops which have been overlooked by the financial types. Looks like I'm stuck with P99SEsp6, warts and all, until that next entrepeneur gets going. Hmmm, my degree is in computer science (I started out doing mostly programming), and I've now got a lot of experience designing PC boards so I also know the user side of things. Maybe a new business opportunity here. Steve Hendrix I think the entrepreneurs have already got going. There's stuff out there for under a $1000 which does the job very nicely. And a few who are so keen to bite at the big boys heels that they give it away (almost literally) if you say that you're looking at Protel, Cadence etc - it seems that we're their prime targets... Kiernan Fitzpatrick - Join IrishCircle - IrishAbroad's premium service http://www.irishabroad.com/circle/ * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] Limitations on InternalPlane layers
I'm still on my first PCB under P99SE. I need to add quite a few extra routes, but the PCB is really dense. Can I route these on the InternalPlane layers? Should I have used Polygon pours on ordinary layers instead? If I am allowed to use the plane layers, then how can I tell whether I'm going to isolate some connections from others and how can I clean up where the trace ploughing would leave nasty slices / lost copper? Also on plane layers can I pull the plane completely away from a particular area? And finally, if I use a polygon on a normal layer, then how do I create the thermal reliefs? Sorry for all the questions. Thanks in advance. Kiernan Fitzpatrick - Join IrishCircle - IrishAbroad's premium service http://www.irishabroad.com/circle/ * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Mismatching gerber
Quoting Brad Velander [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Kiernan, Ian's explanation below is correct. What you're seeing are drawn pads rather then flashed rectangular pads. A major shortcoming of Protel if you are doing very fine or finicky work. As for your soldermask encroachment, that will not be an issue because the soldermask pad will be drawn similarly and won't encroach. Thanks guys. We're using FPC connectors with an 0.3mm pitch. I've got the pads designed so that there's virtually no visible land after soldering, so I will get soldermask encroachment under the pad even though the soldermask lines up with the copper because the pad that I'm getting out of the gerber is smaller than the one on the screen (ie smaller than the pin). At the very least, I'll get severe solderballing. I've put a sample of the gerber output for a couple of pads below and I wonder whether anyone knows enough about gerber to see if there's a quick fix that will produce the correct result. One of the pads is supposed to be a rectangle and the other actually uses the octagonal option. Are there any other Non-WYSIWYG features that I should know about before I spend too many hours on this?? I thought gerber output was the gold standard for PCB packages. Cheers Kiernan Fitzpatrick %ADD10C,0.0600*% %ADD11C,0.0150*% D10* X102723Y83933D02* X102879Y83353D01* D11* X101100Y83387D02* X101268Y84015D01* X101702Y83899D01* X101534Y83271D01* X101100Y83387D01* X101253Y83476D02* X101356Y83862D01* X101549Y83810D01* X101446Y83424D01* X101253Y83476D01* - Join IrishCircle - IrishAbroad's premium service http://www.irishabroad.com/circle/ * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] Mismatching gerber
I've just managed to get a PCB created under Protel and I'm struggling to get the gerber output to match what's on the Protel screen. I've got several components (that I've created myself) which use very small rectangular pads and I've used these components at several angles all over the PCB. When I produce the gerber, all the corners of the pads are rounded off, though on the screen they are square. I've had to keep the pad sizes very tight and I don't want the resist etc to encroach under the pad. So my question is how can I get the corners to be square? I can't afford to increase the pad sizes to accomodate for the rounding. The PCB itself is a horribly dense radial PCB - probably not the best thing to start learning a package with, but this was part of the reason for moving to Protel in the first place. Any help would be much appreciated. Kiernan Fitzpatrick - Join IrishCircle - IrishAbroad's premium service http://www.irishabroad.com/circle/ * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
