Re: [PEDA] Logo's for FCC, UL and CE ?
Jon Elson wrote: Right, the CE requirement is that all electrical components must bear the CE mark at the full accepted size (I think it is around 5 cm?). This includes EVERY component, including 0402 resistors! There are no exceptions permitted, and any unit bearing even one such unlabeled or improperly labeled component can be seized and destroyed by customs agents. Supposedly, there are even criminal penalties in Germany, maybe other places, too, for such violations! Very practical regulations! Jon (happy to live in the US) Funny, on most of my equipment the CE mark (which indeed is obligatory in the EU, not only in Germany) is just printed on a label fixed to the box or packaging. Size depends on size of the label. Only the form is to be genuine. I place a small CE mark (in copper on top or bottom layer) on all PCBs I do. It does not comply 100% to the official mark, but to 95%, and at a size of 3mm to 10mm, depending on available board space, nobody will notice if not viewed under a microscope. If anyone is interested, drop me a line. So I am sorry, Jon, but you should inform yourself better before issuing statements, that may read funny, but unfortunately do not contain real information. Gisbert (happy to live in Germany) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Logo's for FCC, UL and CE ?
Not quite correct, Brad. It is not illegal, to place a CE mark on a power supply, it only is not necessary, as the power supply will not work for its own, but only together with e.g. a PC. The complete system has to carry the CE mark, but system designers often ask for the components they implement to carry a CE mark also, in order to get proved that the single components (boards, power supply, drives, etc.) passed an EMC test. Regards, Gisbert Auge N.A.T. GmbH That also is not the whole truth. CE Mark is mandatory for every Part that is sold to any end user inside the european community. So, a PC PSU must carry a CE mark if Customers (end users) can buy it as a separate unit. Consequently, this applies to every PC component that is sold as retail version. EMC testing for these components is made in a typical environment. Which leaves the question what is typical. So in doubt the system integrator has the responsability that his system is CE conform. All CE marking of components that are not sold in the end user market and that are not subject to a particular european standard is a misuse of the CE mark and therefore illegal. There are clear standards and laws about the application of the CE mark. regards, Heiko Vachek elektronik 21 GmbH [EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Logo's for FCC, UL and CE ?
Your description is more precise than mine. Thank you. Gisbert Heiko Vachek [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 09.08.2001 15:45:19 Please respond to Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: Re: [PEDA] Logo's for FCC, UL and CE ? Not quite correct, Brad. It is not illegal, to place a CE mark on a power supply, it only is not necessary, as the power supply will not work for its own, but only together with e.g. a PC. The complete system has to carry the CE mark, but system designers often ask for the components they implement to carry a CE mark also, in order to get proved that the single components (boards, power supply, drives, etc.) passed an EMC test. Regards, Gisbert Auge N.A.T. GmbH That also is not the whole truth. CE Mark is mandatory for every Part that is sold to any end user inside the european community. So, a PC PSU must carry a CE mark if Customers (end users) can buy it as a separate unit. Consequently, this applies to every PC component that is sold as retail version. EMC testing for these components is made in a typical environment. Which leaves the question what is typical. So in doubt the system integrator has the responsability that his system is CE conform. All CE marking of components that are not sold in the end user market and that are not subject to a particular european standard is a misuse of the CE mark and therefore illegal. There are clear standards and laws about the application of the CE mark. regards, Heiko Vachek elektronik 21 GmbH [EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Logo's for FCC, UL and CE ?
Gisbert, I am not a CE compliance expert and I do not have access to the statement from the CE group any longer (former life with a different employer). However the statement that I read clearly and specifically stated that computer PSUs and other similar PSUs could not bear the CE marking. It also stated that all such PSU manufacturers should cease putting such markings on their equipment. That is all that I can state, you can argue with it all you want but it is a pretty clear statement directly from the CE governing bodies/group. Brad Velander, Lead PCB Designer, Norsat International Inc., #300 - 4401 Still Creek Dr., Burnaby, B.C., V5C 6G9. Tel. (604) 292-9089 direct Fax (604) 292-9010 website www.norsat.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 5:37 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Logo's for FCC, UL and CE ? Not quite correct, Brad. It is not illegal, to place a CE mark on a power supply, it only is not necessary, as the power supply will not work for its own, but only together with e.g. a PC. The complete system has to carry the CE mark, but system designers often ask for the components they implement to carry a CE mark also, in order to get proved that the single components (boards, power supply, drives, etc.) passed an EMC test. Regards, Gisbert Auge N.A.T. GmbH * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Logo's for FCC, UL and CE ?
check out www.ce-mag.com Ted -Original Message- From: Brad Velander [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 11:38 AM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: Re: [PEDA] Logo's for FCC, UL and CE ? Gisbert, I am not a CE compliance expert and I do not have access to the statement from the CE group any longer (former life with a different employer). However the statement that I read clearly and specifically stated that computer PSUs and other similar PSUs could not bear the CE marking. It also stated that all such PSU manufacturers should cease putting such markings on their equipment. That is all that I can state, you can argue with it all you want but it is a pretty clear statement directly from the CE governing bodies/group. Brad Velander, Lead PCB Designer, Norsat International Inc., #300 - 4401 Still Creek Dr., Burnaby, B.C., V5C 6G9. Tel. (604) 292-9089 direct Fax (604) 292-9010 website www.norsat.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 5:37 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Logo's for FCC, UL and CE ? Not quite correct, Brad. It is not illegal, to place a CE mark on a power supply, it only is not necessary, as the power supply will not work for its own, but only together with e.g. a PC. The complete system has to carry the CE mark, but system designers often ask for the components they implement to carry a CE mark also, in order to get proved that the single components (boards, power supply, drives, etc.) passed an EMC test. Regards, Gisbert Auge N.A.T. GmbH * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Logo's for FCC, UL and CE ?
Download it from http://www.conformance.co.uk/CE_MARKING/CELOGO/ce_logo.html sarcastically Anybody ever heard of this newfangled thing called an internet search engine? www.google.com Darryl Newberry Hardware Engineer Freedom Scientific, Inc 2850 SE Market Pl Stuart FL 34997 (561) 223-6443 http://www.freedomscientific.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Logo's for FCC, UL and CE ?
Darryl, I have found Copernic (www.copernic.com) most useful for general searches. It has a free basic version. I believe Partminer (www.partminer.com) and its associated Free Trade Zone are pretty good too. I use http://pw1.netcom.com/~dwsmith/index.html as my homepage, so I don't have to think any more. The denser I get means I might eventually become management material. Although this is a bit off topic, I am not sure if obtaining CE status is mandatory or a level of comfort sticker for a consumer market ? We are working to an international product line in the future. I would not like to see our song and dance greeted by the extended cane of trade requirements. Fabe www.guigne.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Logo's for FCC, UL and CE ?
Alas, Partminer is no more, it was actually useful, so it had to go. It was acquired and promptly replaced by freetradezone, which sucks mightily, as do most monolithic, graphics-intensive, form-over-function, marketing-suit driven web ideas. BTW, I was being sarcastic about all the requests for a CE logo. It took me about 15 seconds to search for, locate, download and view the logo artwork from that link. I have spent at least 10 times that writing about it here. -Original Message- From: Fabian Hartery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 2:35 PM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: Re: [PEDA] Logo's for FCC, UL and CE ? Darryl, I have found Copernic (www.copernic.com) most useful for general searches. It has a free basic version. I believe Partminer (www.partminer.com) and its associated Free Trade Zone are pretty good too. I use http://pw1.netcom.com/~dwsmith/index.html as my homepage, so I don't have to think any more. The denser I get means I might eventually become management material. Although this is a bit off topic, I am not sure if obtaining CE status is mandatory or a level of comfort sticker for a consumer market ? We are working to an international product line in the future. I would not like to see our song and dance greeted by the extended cane of trade requirements. Fabe www.guigne.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Logo's for FCC, UL and CE ?
Brad Velander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Similarly, one can apply the same logic to resistors, capacitors and other components. Unless there is a specific directive which covers those types of components, they are covered under the products most suitable directives and are the responsibility of the integrator who used the components in their product. Hmm... this begs the question: What about CE markings on the integrator him/herself? Presumably, if an engineer has a CE tattoo on his arm/shoulder/etc., this would mean the products he designs are CE-compliant, right? With tongue firmly in cheek... --- Dave Cuthbert [EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Logo's for FCC, UL and CE ?
This issue with CE marking has caused many of us lots of headaches. Wading through the standards documents, it becomes clear that they are the work committees where all the members want to have their say, whether or not it is of value or not. How about changing the location of the tattoo to one's cheek. Then one can make a statement at each inspection ... Sorry! It's Friday here in New Zealand... -Original Message- From: David Cuthbert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, 10 August 2001 08:15 To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Logo's for FCC, UL and CE ? Brad Velander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Similarly, one can apply the same logic to resistors, capacitors and other components. Unless there is a specific directive which covers those types of components, they are covered under the products most suitable directives and are the responsibility of the integrator who used the components in their product. Hmm... this begs the question: What about CE markings on the integrator him/herself? Presumably, if an engineer has a CE tattoo on his arm/shoulder/etc., this would mean the products he designs are CE-compliant, right? With tongue firmly in cheek... --- Dave Cuthbert [EMAIL PROTECTED] The contents of this E-mail may contain information that is legally privileged and/or confidential to the named recipient. This information is not to be used by any other person and/or organisation. The views expressed in this document do not necessarily reflect those of the company. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Logo's for FCC, UL and CE ?
Is that cheek, or cheeks? As the moon rises in Minnesota... Dan Kennedy Great River Electronics Inc. Phil So wrote: How about changing the location of the tattoo to one's cheek. Then one can make a statement at each inspection ... Sorry! It's Friday here in New Zealand... * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Logo's for FCC, UL and CE ?
Relax Jon, the CE requirements do not cover use of normal components in an assembly. It covers the product/assembly but the individual components are not covered separately as far as it effects you or I. The best example of this is computer power supplies, it is illegal to put the CE mark on a computer power supply, because on it's own it does nothing and has no usable function (other then as a paper weight). There were a lot of computer power supply people driving the CE people nuts when CE became mandatory for all general electronics products. The individual components (passives, semis, etc.)undoubtedly come under some CE requirements (for at least materials/flammability) somewhere or in the future but I think the marking will not be an issue with them. Thank god it has been years since I had to deal with all that CE bs. Even talking directly to a CE engineer/rep in Europe would never get you a straight answer to a straight question. Brad Velander, Lead PCB Designer, Norsat International Inc., #300 - 4401 Still Creek Dr., Burnaby, B.C., V5C 6G9. Tel. (604) 292-9089 direct Fax (604) 292-9010 website www.norsat.com -Original Message- From: Jon Elson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 12:46 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Logo's for FCC, UL and CE ? Brad Velander wrote: Carl, a word of warning. Read the CE requirements for labeling requirements quite carefully, I don't remember the exact details but your desired size appears to be well below their minimum size requirements if this is the only CE mark to be applied to your product. Right, the CE requirement is that all electrical components must bear the CE mark at the full accepted size (I think it is around 5 cm?). This includes EVERY component, including 0402 resistors! There are no exceptions permitted, and any unit bearing even one such unlabeled or improperly labeled component can be seized and destroyed by customs agents. Supposedly, there are even criminal penalties in Germany, maybe other places, too, for such violations! Very practical regulations! Jon (happy to live in the US) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Logo's for FCC, UL and CE ?
Carl, Download the Klipper Free 30 day trial . http://www.desktop-eda.com.au/products/pcb.htm This has all those logos in its logo library. You can place them at what ever scale you want. regards Brian At 12:27 PM 07-08-01 -0700, you wrote: Hello, I have dense board to apply logos for FCC, UL and CE onto the silk screen. Ideal height would be ~.100 height, but anything would be great. Does anyone have these logos in a format Protel99SE can import? I would be grateful if you could share them with me. Sincerely, Carl Schattke, C.I.D. Intel Corporation, ACT Sr. Hardware Engineer ( PCB Design) 122 Saratoga Ave. Suite 100 Santa Clara, CA 95052 Office 408-556-3122 Fax 408-261-5869 24 Hr. Ph. 888-204-3704 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Brian Watson Desktop EDA http://www.desktop-eda.com.au Australia ph 61 3 9455 2289 fax 61 3 9479 1675 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Logo's for FCC, UL and CE ?
Brad Velander wrote: Relax Jon, the CE requirements do not cover use of normal components in an assembly. It covers the product/assembly but the individual components are not covered separately as far as it effects you or I. The best example of this is computer power supplies, it is illegal to put the CE mark on a computer power supply, because on it's own it does nothing and has no usable function (other then as a paper weight). OK, this is the clarification that everybody was looking for, after the initial version of the rules came out. Thank god it has been years since I had to deal with all that CE bs. Even talking directly to a CE engineer/rep in Europe would never get you a straight answer to a straight question. I'm sure glad I'm not selling anything internationally, right now! Jon * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Logo's for FCC, UL and CE ?
Carl, a word of warning. Read the CE requirements for labeling requirements quite carefully, I don't remember the exact details but your desired size appears to be well below their minimum size requirements if this is the only CE mark to be applied to your product. The pertinent details used to be found in the same section as the grid CE logo graphic. FCC has similar requirements but they 'were' not stated in their actual regulations, however we had one product rejected years ago because the size of the FCC ID were smaller then acceptable according to the engineer handling our submission. Seemed to have been arbitrary according to what we could determine at the time. I haven't had to deal with this for a fair period of time at the PCB level so possibly there have been some changes in recent years. Brad Velander, Lead PCB Designer, Norsat International Inc., #300 - 4401 Still Creek Dr., Burnaby, B.C., V5C 6G9. Tel. (604) 292-9089 direct Fax (604) 292-9010 website www.norsat.com -Original Message- From: Schattke, Carl [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 12:27 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: [PEDA] Logo's for FCC, UL and CE ? Hello, I have dense board to apply logos for FCC, UL and CE onto the silk screen. Ideal height would be ~.100 height, but anything would be great. Does anyone have these logos in a format Protel99SE can import? I would be grateful if you could share them with me. Sincerely, Carl Schattke, C.I.D. Intel Corporation, ACT Sr. Hardware Engineer ( PCB Design) 122 Saratoga Ave. Suite 100 Santa Clara, CA 95052 Office 408-556-3122 Fax 408-261-5869 24 Hr. Ph. 888-204-3704 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
