Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] cpython (2.7): - Issue #13150: sysconfig no longer parses the Makefile and config.h files

Great! On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 3:02 PM, matthias.klose wrote: > http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/66e30c4870bb > changeset: 82872:66e30c4870bb > branch: 2.7 > parent: 82843:71adf21421d9 > user:d...@ubuntu.com > date:Thu Mar 21 15:02:16 2013 -0700 > summary: > - Issue

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 11:21 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > We can refactor IDLE to make aspects of it easier to test with the > buildbots, especially now that we have unittest.mock in the standard > library to mock out some of the UI interaction in the test suite. (I'm > happy to help coach the IDLE

Re: [Python-Dev] Slides from today's parallel/async Python talk

http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?BlubParadox ;-) Sent from my iPhone On 21 Mar 2013, at 06:18, "Antoine Pitrou" wrote: > Le Thu, 14 Mar 2013 15:23:37 -0700, > Trent Nelson a écrit : >> >>Don't get me wrong, I grew up with UNIX and love it as much as the >>next guy, but you can't deny the usefu

Re: [Python-Dev] Slides from today's parallel/async Python talk

No, I haven't. I'd lose the excellent Windows pairing of thread pool IO and overlapped IO facilities if I did that. Not saying it isn't an option down the track for the generic "submit work" API though; that stuff will work against any thread pool without too much effort. But for now, the fact

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 3/21/2013 7:17 PM, Thomas Wouters wrote: although I do think we should move 'idlelib' out of the standard library :) Currently, 'python -m idlelib' start idle from the command line. If idlelib/ were moved out of /Lib, idle.py should be added so 'python -m idle' would work. I may suggest t

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 3/21/2013 11:21 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 5:26 AM, Daniel Holth wrote: I showed IDLE to my 6-year-old on the Raspberry Pi and I'm convinced it is cool. Gave up on trying to (slowly) install bpython. We were multiplying large numbers and counting to 325,000 in no time. I

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 3/21/2013 5:19 PM, Mark Janssen wrote: On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 8:32 PM, Terry Reedy mailto:tjre...@udel.edu>> wrote: I might be jumping in late here, but... Not at all. Thank you for the enlightening post. The *only* thing I find "ugly" about it is that it doesn't have a white-on-black

Re: [Python-Dev] cpython: Issue #13248: removed deprecated and undocumented difflib.isbjunk, isbpopular.

On 3/21/2013 2:23 PM, R. David Murray wrote: On Thu, 21 Mar 2013 01:19:42 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote: How does this look? Is ``replacement`` right? Should the subsequent sm by itself be marked? If so, how? * :meth:`difflib.SequenceMatcher.isbjunk` and :meth:`difflib.SequenceMatcher.isbpopu

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

I expressed this opinion at the sprints (right before I left) in the group discussion with Guido and Nick, but I'm not sure if it's been represented in this thread yet (I'm jetlagged and talk about Windows command prompts depresses me) -- so I'll just rehash it: distributing IDLE in the binary pack

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting the _sysconfigdata.py module to 2.7

On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 10:48 PM, Benjamin Peterson wrote: > 2013/3/21 Matthias Klose : > > I'd like to backport issue13150, the _sysconfigdata.py module to 2.7. My > > motivation is not the improved startup time, but the ability to > cross-build > > extension modules using distutils/setuptools.

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 2:31 PM, Oleg Broytman wrote: > On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 02:19:33PM -0700, Mark Janssen < > dreamingforw...@gmail.com> wrote: > > The *only* thing I find "ugly" about it is that it doesn't have a > > white-on-black color scheme. Look at any hacker console and you won't > f

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting the _sysconfigdata.py module to 2.7

2013/3/21 Matthias Klose : > I'd like to backport issue13150, the _sysconfigdata.py module to 2.7. My > motivation is not the improved startup time, but the ability to cross-build > extension modules using distutils/setuptools. The basic idea is to use the > python interpreter of the build machine

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 02:19:33PM -0700, Mark Janssen wrote: > The *only* thing I find "ugly" about it is that it doesn't have a > white-on-black color scheme. Look at any hacker console and you won't find > a white screen. Call me a bad hacker or not hacker at all -- I hate black backgroun

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 8:32 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 3/20/2013 12:41 PM, Eli Bendersky wrote: > > Personally, I think that IDLE reflects badly on Python in more ways than >> one. It's badly maintained, quirky and ugly. >> > > Ugly is subjective: by what standard and compared to what? > I mi

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

Am 21.03.2013 19:13, schrieb Antoine Pitrou: > On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 19:57:54 -0700 > Raymond Hettinger wrote: >> >> On Mar 20, 2013, at 12:38 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: >> >> > Right. Ultimately, I think IDLE should be a separate project entirely, >> > but I >> > guess there's push back against t

[Python-Dev] backporting the _sysconfigdata.py module to 2.7

I'd like to backport issue13150, the _sysconfigdata.py module to 2.7. My motivation is not the improved startup time, but the ability to cross-build extension modules using distutils/setuptools. The basic idea is to use the python interpreter of the build machine (the machine you build on), and th

Re: [Python-Dev] cpython: Issue #13248: removed deprecated and undocumented difflib.isbjunk, isbpopular.

On Thu, 21 Mar 2013 01:19:42 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 3/20/2013 2:13 PM, R. David Murray wrote: > > On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 05:23:43 -0700, Eli Bendersky wrote: > >> A mention in Misc/NEWS can't hurt here, Terry. Even though it's > >> undocumented, some old code could rely on it being there and

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 19:57:54 -0700 Raymond Hettinger wrote: > > On Mar 20, 2013, at 12:38 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > > > Right. Ultimately, I think IDLE should be a separate project entirely, but > > I > > guess there's push back against that too. > > The most important feature of IDLE is tha

[Python-Dev] Federated repo model [was: IDLE in the stdlib]

On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 8:23 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > I think a federated repo model in general is something we need to > consider, it's not something we should consider IDLE specific. I would love to have a federated repo model. I have recently made the attempt to port the devguide for CPython t

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

Am 21.03.2013 16:23, schrieb Nick Coghlan: > On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 6:22 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: >> On Mar 21, 2013, at 05:25 AM, Eli Bendersky wrote: >> >>>1. Whether IDLE should be developed separately from the core Python >>>repository (while still being shipped). >>> >>>I really want to const

Re: [Python-Dev] How to fix the incorrect shared library extension on linux for 3.2 and newer?

Am 20.03.2013 22:36, schrieb Barry Warsaw: > On Mar 20, 2013, at 01:18 PM, Matthias Klose wrote: > >>The patch in the issue now makes a distinction between EXT_SUFFIX and >>SHLIB_SUFFIX, and restores the value of SO to SHLIB_SUFFIX. Now this could >>break users of sysconfig.get_config_var('SO'),

Re: [Python-Dev] Slides from today's parallel/async Python talk

That's good to hear :-) (It's a fantastic facility, I couldn't imagine having to go back to manual TLS API stuff after using __thread/__declspec(thread).) This e-mail was sent from a wireless device. On 21 Mar 2013, at 09:30, "Baptiste Lepilleur" mailto:baptiste.lepill...@gmail.com>> wrote:

[Python-Dev] PEP 405 (venv) - why does it copy the DLLs on Windows

PEP 405 has this note: """ On Windows, it is necessary to also copy or symlink DLLs and pyd files from compiled stdlib modules into the env, because if the venv is created from a non-system-wide Python installation, Windows won't be able to find the Python installation's copies of those files when

Re: [Python-Dev] Slides from today's parallel/async Python talk

2013/3/15 Trent Nelson > On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 03:50:27PM -0700, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote: > > Am 14.03.13 12:59, schrieb Stefan Ring: > > > I think you should be able to just take the address of a static > > > __thread variable to achieve the same thing in a more portable way. > > > > That assu

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 6:22 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Mar 21, 2013, at 05:25 AM, Eli Bendersky wrote: > >>1. Whether IDLE should be developed separately from the core Python >>repository (while still being shipped). >> >>I really want to constructively focus on (1). > > In fact, solving (1) sh

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 5:26 AM, Daniel Holth wrote: > I showed IDLE to my 6-year-old on the Raspberry Pi and I'm convinced > it is cool. Gave up on trying to (slowly) install bpython. We were > multiplying large numbers and counting to 325,000 in no time. It might > not be for *me* but I'm not go

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Mar 21, 2013, at 05:25 AM, Eli Bendersky wrote: >1. Whether IDLE should be developed separately from the core Python >repository (while still being shipped). > >I really want to constructively focus on (1). In fact, solving (1) should help move along the discussions about separating the stdlib

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 12:18 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > Paul Moore writes: > > > I have no figures one way or the other on that. You may well be > > right. Are we aiming at "all Windows users" here? > > We need to be careful about this. ISTM that IDLE is aiming at the > subset of users

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

Paul Moore writes: > I have no figures one way or the other on that. You may well be > right. Are we aiming at "all Windows users" here? We need to be careful about this. ISTM that IDLE is aiming at the subset of users on any platform who for some reason need/want a simple development environ

Re: [Python-Dev] Slides from today's parallel/async Python talk

Le Thu, 14 Mar 2013 15:23:37 -0700, Trent Nelson a écrit : > > Don't get me wrong, I grew up with UNIX and love it as much as the > next guy, but you can't deny the usefulness of Windows' facilities > for writing high-performance, multi-threaded IO code. It's > decades ahead of POSIX

Re: [Python-Dev] Slides from today's parallel/async Python talk

Den 14. mars 2013 kl. 23:23 skrev Trent Nelson : > >For the record, here are all the Windows calls I'm using that have >no *direct* POSIX equivalent: > >Interlocked singly-linked lists: >- InitializeSListHead() >- InterlockedFlushSList() >- Que

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 3/20/2013 12:41 PM, Eli Bendersky wrote: Interesting writeup about PyCon 2013 young coder education:http://therealkatie.net/blog/2013/mar/19/pycon-2013-young-coders/ Quote: "We used IDLE because it's already on Raspian's desktop. Personally, I like IDLE as a teaching tool. It's included in t

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

I showed IDLE to my 6-year-old on the Raspberry Pi and I'm convinced it is cool. Gave up on trying to (slowly) install bpython. We were multiplying large numbers and counting to 325,000 in no time. It might not be for *me* but I'm not going to teach my daughter a large IDE any time soon. __

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 11:42 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 3/20/2013 11:54 PM, Eli Bendersky wrote: > >> On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 8:32 PM, Terry Reedy > > > Ugly is subjective: by what standard and compared to what? >> >> Compared to other existing Python IDEs and shells which are layered on >

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

> > On Mar 20, 2013, at 12:38 PM, Barry Warsaw > > wrote: > > > >> Right. Ultimately, I think IDLE should be a separate project > entirely, but I > >> guess there's push back against that too. > > > > The most important feature of IDLE is that it ships

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 3/21/2013 5:20 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: Le Thu, 21 Mar 2013 02:42:33 -0400, Terry Reedy a écrit : On 3/20/2013 11:54 PM, Eli Bendersky wrote: On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 8:32 PM, Terry Reedy Ugly is subjective: by what standard and compared to what? Compared to other existing Python I

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 3/21/2013 5:41 AM, Paul Moore wrote: On 21 March 2013 06:54, Devin Jeanpierre wrote: On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 2:42 AM, Terry Reedy wrote: I think being frozen in the late 1990s is better than being frozen in the early 1980s, like Command Prompt is. In fact, I think we should 'deprecate' the

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 21 March 2013 10:32, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 3/21/2013 5:27 AM, Paul Moore wrote: > >> Can I suggest that debates about the capability of Windows command >> line programming are off-topic here? > > > I respectfully disagree, unless you say that the whole thread is off topic. > If it is okay for

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 3/21/2013 5:27 AM, Paul Moore wrote: Can I suggest that debates about the capability of Windows command line programming are off-topic here? I respectfully disagree, unless you say that the whole thread is off topic. If it is okay for people to say that IDLE, including the IDLE interactiv

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 20 March 2013 23:53, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > I also note that in the last few weeks, I've seen at least two instances > that I recall of a beginner on the tu...@python.org mailing list being > utterly confused by Python's Unicode handling because the Windows command > prompt is unable to print

Re: [Python-Dev] A 'common' respository? (was Re: IDLE in the stdlib)

On 3/21/2013 2:06 AM, Philip James wrote: I hope I'm not coming across as pedantic, because I think you have some good arguments listed above, but shouldn't discussion like this go in python-ideas rather than python-dev? Normally yes. But since this is a counter-proposal or an alternate propos

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 21 March 2013 06:54, Devin Jeanpierre wrote: > On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 2:42 AM, Terry Reedy wrote: >> I think being frozen in the late 1990s is better than being frozen in the >> early 1980s, like Command Prompt is. In fact, I think we should 'deprecate' >> the Command Prompt interpreter as th

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

Le Wed, 20 Mar 2013 18:48:15 -0400, "Kurt B. Kaiser" a écrit : > > IDLE has a single keystroke round trip - it's an IDE, not just an > editor like Sublime Text or Notepad. In the 21st century, people > expect some sort of IDE. Or, they should! I don't think I've used an IDE in years (not serio

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 21 March 2013 00:38, Neil Hodgson wrote: > Terry Reedy: > >> Broken (and quirky): it has an absurdly limited output buffer (under a >> thousand lines) > >The limit is actually lines. > >> Quirky: Windows uses cntl-C to copy selected text to the clipboard and >> (where appropriate) cn

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

Le Thu, 21 Mar 2013 02:42:33 -0400, Terry Reedy a écrit : > On 3/20/2013 11:54 PM, Eli Bendersky wrote: > > On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 8:32 PM, Terry Reedy > > Ugly is subjective: by what standard and compared to what? > > > > Compared to other existing Python IDEs and shells which are layered

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 3/21/2013 12:32 AM, Kurt B. Kaiser wrote: Well, spending a lot of time backporting new features is not my idea of fun. OTOH, I have no objection. I intentionally did not say in the PEP that it should be mandatory. Along those lines, I've thought that IDLE should refrain from using the new

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 03/20/2013 11:34 PM, Georg Brandl wrote: I don't really understand what Antoine's "quiescently torpid" means, "quiescent" = "peaceful, quiet, still" "torpid" = "lethargic, not moving" "antoine" = "thesaurus owner" //arry/ ___ Python-Dev mailing l

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE in the stdlib

On 3/21/2013 12:36 AM, Glenn Linderman wrote: On 3/20/2013 5:15 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: Broken (and quirky): it has an absurdly limited output buffer (under a thousand lines) People keep claiming that Windows CMD has a limited output buffer. It is configurable, at least to lines, which is