Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] r86930 - in python/branches/py3k: Doc/library/os.rst Lib/os.py Lib/test/test_os.py Misc/ACKS Misc/NEWS

2010-12-02 Thread Nick Coghlan
On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 5:05 PM, terry.reedy python-check...@python.org wrote: + If +   the target directory with the same mode as we specified already exists, +   raises an :exc:`OSError` exception if *exist_ok* is False, otherwise no +   exception is raised.  If the directory cannot be

Re: [Python-Dev] AIX 5.3 - Enabling Shared Library Support Vs Extensions

2010-12-02 Thread Sébastien Sablé
Hi Anurag, Le 25/11/2010 10:24, Anurag Chourasia a écrit : All, When I configure python to enable shared libraries, none of the extensions are getting built during the make step due to this error. you may want to take a look at the following issue: http://bugs.python.org/issue941346

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] r86924 - python/branches/py3k/Doc/library/random.rst

2010-12-02 Thread Éric Araujo
On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 12:41 PM, raymond.hettinger python-check...@python.org wrote: +A more general approach is to arrange the weights in a cumulative probability +distribution with :func:`itertools.accumulate`, and then locate the random value +with :func:`bisect.bisect`:: + +

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

2010-12-02 Thread Neil Hodgson
Stephen J. Turnbull: Here's why: '''print %d % some_integer''' doesn't now, and never will (unless Kristan gets his Python 2.8wink), produce Arabic or Han numerals.  Not in any language I know of, not in Microsoft Excel, and definitely not in Python 2. While I don't have Excel to test

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

2010-12-02 Thread Georg Brandl
Am 01.12.2010 23:39, schrieb Martin v. Löwis: As of today, What’s New In Python 3.2 [1] does not even mention the unicodedata upgrade to 6.0.0. One reason was that I was instructed not to change What's New a few years ago. Maybe all past, present and future whatsnew maintainers can agree on

[Python-Dev] Change to the Distutils / Distutils2 workflow

2010-12-02 Thread Tarek Ziadé
Hey We discussed with Eric about the debugging workflow and we agreed that our life would be easier if every bug fix would land first in Distutils2 when it makes sense, then get backported to Distutils1. For other core-devs that would mean that your patches should be done against

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

2010-12-02 Thread Lennart Regebro
2010/12/2 Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org: Because that works, but print(T1234) doesn't (it prints ASCII).  You can't round-trip, but users will want/expect that. You should be able to round-trip, absolutely. I don't think you should expect print() to do that. str(56) possibly. :)

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

2010-12-02 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Wed, 1 Dec 2010 22:28:49 -0500 Alexander Belopolsky alexander.belopol...@gmail.com wrote: Both my personal observations when travelling from Turkey to India and Wikipedia say yes. When representing a number in Arabic, the lowest-valued position is placed on the right, so the order of

Re: [Python-Dev] Porting Ideas

2010-12-02 Thread Lennart Regebro
On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 20:17, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: And I'm not sure what this package called Python is (“a high-level object-oriented programming language”? like Java?), but I'm pretty sure I've heard there's a Python 3 compatible version. Uhm...

Re: [Python-Dev] AIX 5.3 - Enabling Shared Library Support Vs Extensions

2010-12-02 Thread Anurag Chourasia
Hi Sebastian, Thanks for your response. I looked at http://bugs.python.org/issue941346 earlier. I was referred to this link by Stefan Krah through another bug that i created at http://bugs.python.org/issue10555 for this issue. I confirm that my problem is solved with the Python 2.7.1 release

Re: [Python-Dev] ICU

2010-12-02 Thread Guido van Rossum
On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 8:45 PM, Alexander Belopolsky alexander.belopol...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: Oh, about ICU: Actually, I remember you saying that locale should ideally be replaced with a wrapper around the ICU library.

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] r86817 - python/branches/py3k-stat-on-windows/Lib/test/test_shutil.py

2010-12-02 Thread Hirokazu Yamamoto
On 2010/11/27 5:31, Brian Curtin wrote: On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 14:18, Hirokazu Yamamotoocean-c...@m2.ccsnet.ne.jp wrote: On 2010/11/27 5:02, Brian Curtin wrote: We briefly chatted about this on the os.link feature issue, but I never found a way around it. How about implementing

Re: [Python-Dev] ICU

2010-12-02 Thread James Y Knight
On Dec 1, 2010, at 11:45 PM, Alexander Belopolsky wrote: On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: Oh, about ICU: Actually, I remember you saying that locale should ideally be replaced with a wrapper around the ICU library. By that, I stand - however,

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

2010-12-02 Thread Alexander Belopolsky
On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 8:36 AM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: On Wed, 1 Dec 2010 22:28:49 -0500 Alexander Belopolsky alexander.belopol...@gmail.com wrote: .. This matches my limited research on this topic as well.  However, I am not sure that when these codes are embedded in Arabic

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

2010-12-02 Thread Antoine Pitrou
Le jeudi 02 décembre 2010 à 11:41 -0500, Alexander Belopolsky a écrit : Note that my point is not to find the correct answer here, but to demonstrate that we as a group don't have the expertise to get parsing of Arabic text right. I don't understand why you think Arabic or Hebrew text is any

Re: [Python-Dev] ICU

2010-12-02 Thread Benjamin Peterson
2010/12/2 Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org: On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 8:45 PM, Alexander Belopolsky alexander.belopol...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: Oh, about ICU: Actually, I remember you saying that locale should ideally be

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] r86930 - in python/branches/py3k: Doc/library/os.rst Lib/os.py Lib/test/test_os.py Misc/ACKS Misc/NEWS

2010-12-02 Thread Terry Reedy
On 12/2/2010 4:32 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 5:05 PM, terry.reedypython-check...@python.org wrote: (except I did not write most of the patch) + If + the target directory with the same mode as we specified already exists, + raises an :exc:`OSError` exception if

Re: [Python-Dev] ICU

2010-12-02 Thread P.J. Eby
At 07:47 AM 12/2/2010 -0800, Guido van Rossum wrote: On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 8:45 PM, Alexander Belopolsky alexander.belopol...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: Oh, about ICU: Actually, I remember you saying that locale should

Re: [Python-Dev] Porting Ideas

2010-12-02 Thread Terry Reedy
On 12/2/2010 8:36 AM, Lennart Regebro wrote: On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 20:17, Antoine Pitrousolip...@pitrou.net wrote: And I'm not sure what this package called Python is (“a high-level object-oriented programming language”? like Java?), but I'm pretty sure I've heard there's a Python 3

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

2010-12-02 Thread Alexander Belopolsky
On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: Le jeudi 02 décembre 2010 à 11:41 -0500, Alexander Belopolsky a écrit : Note that my point is not to find the correct answer here, but to demonstrate that we as a group don't have the expertise to get parsing of Arabic

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

2010-12-02 Thread Antoine Pitrou
Le jeudi 02 décembre 2010 à 13:14 -0500, Alexander Belopolsky a écrit : I don't understand why you think Arabic or Hebrew text is any different from Western text. Surely right-to-left isn't more conceptually complicated than left-to-right, is it? No, but a mix of LTR and RTL is

Re: [Python-Dev] Porting Ideas

2010-12-02 Thread Barry Warsaw
On Dec 02, 2010, at 12:59 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: On 12/2/2010 8:36 AM, Lennart Regebro wrote: On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 20:17, Antoine Pitrousolip...@pitrou.net wrote: And I'm not sure what this package called Python is (“a high-level object-oriented programming language”? like Java?), but I'm

Re: [Python-Dev] Porting Ideas

2010-12-02 Thread Sridhar Ratnakumar
On 2010-12-01, at 11:02 AM, Brian Curtin wrote: http://onpython3yet.com/ might be helpful to you. It orders the projects on PyPI with the most dependencies which are not yet ported to 3.x. Note that there are a number of false positives, e.g., the first result -- NumPy, since people

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

2010-12-02 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 02.12.2010 03:01, schrieb Ben Finney: Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org writes: Furthermore, he provided good *objective* reason (excessive cost, to which I can also testify, in several different input methods for Japanese) why numbers simply would not be input that way. What's

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

2010-12-02 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Maybe all past, present and future whatsnew maintainers can agree on these rules, which I copied directly from whatsnew/3.2.rst? I don't think all past maintainers can (I'm pretty certain that AMK would disagree), but if that's the current policy, I can certainly try following it (I didn't know

Re: [Python-Dev] Porting Ideas

2010-12-02 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Aside: how does one log into the Cheeseshop with your Launchpad OpenID? When I try to do it I end up on a Manual user registration page. I fill out the username with what I think my PyPI user name is, and add my python.org email address, but then it tells me 'barry' is already taken. Do I

Re: [Python-Dev] Porting Ideas

2010-12-02 Thread Barry Warsaw
On Dec 02, 2010, at 08:44 PM, Martin v. Löwis wrote: Since the barry account already exists, you first need to log into that (likely using a password). You can then claim the LP OpenID as being associated with that account, and use LP in the future. Thanks Martin. -Barry signature.asc

[Python-Dev] PEP 384 accepted

2010-12-02 Thread Benjamin Peterson
Hi, Since discussion has trailed off without any blocking objections, I'm accepting PEP 384. Martin, you may mark the PEP accepted and proceed with merging the implementation for the beta on Saturday. -- Regards, Benjamin ___ Python-Dev mailing list

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

2010-12-02 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
Martin v. Löwis wrote: Now, one may wonder what precisely a possibly signed floating point number is, but most likely, this refers to floatnumber ::= pointfloat | exponentfloat pointfloat::= [intpart] fraction | intpart . exponentfloat ::= (intpart | pointfloat) exponent intpart

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

2010-12-02 Thread Georg Brandl
Am 02.12.2010 20:40, schrieb Martin v. Löwis: Maybe all past, present and future whatsnew maintainers can agree on these rules, which I copied directly from whatsnew/3.2.rst? I don't think all past maintainers can Yes, and the same goes for the future ones, since they may not even know yet

Re: [Python-Dev] Porting Ideas

2010-12-02 Thread Georg Brandl
Am 02.12.2010 20:06, schrieb Barry Warsaw: On Dec 02, 2010, at 12:59 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: On 12/2/2010 8:36 AM, Lennart Regebro wrote: On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 20:17, Antoine Pitrousolip...@pitrou.net wrote: And I'm not sure what this package called Python is (“a high-level object-oriented

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

2010-12-02 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Then these users should speak up and indicate their need, or somebody should speak up and confirm that there are users who actually want '١٢٣٤.٥٦' to denote 1234.56. To my knowledge, there is no writing system in which '١٢٣٤.٥٦e4' means 12345600.0. I'm not sure what you're after here. That

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 accepted

2010-12-02 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Since discussion has trailed off without any blocking objections, I'm accepting PEP 384. Martin, you may mark the PEP accepted and proceed with merging the implementation for the beta on Saturday. Thanks! will do (I'll also take into consideration the proposed changes). Regards, Martin

Re: [Python-Dev] Porting Ideas

2010-12-02 Thread Dirkjan Ochtman
On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 20:24, Sridhar Ratnakumar sridh...@activestate.com wrote: Also note that the dependency information is incomplete. Also, a python3 version of chardet is available (from the website only, looks like). Cheers, Dirkjan ___

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 accepted

2010-12-02 Thread Tarek Ziadé
On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 9:24 PM, Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de wrote: Since discussion has trailed off without any blocking objections, I'm accepting PEP 384. Martin, you may mark the PEP accepted and proceed with merging the implementation for the beta on Saturday. Thanks! will do (I'll

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 accepted

2010-12-02 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 02.12.2010 21:48, schrieb Tarek Ziadé: On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 9:24 PM, Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de wrote: Since discussion has trailed off without any blocking objections, I'm accepting PEP 384. Martin, you may mark the PEP accepted and proceed with merging the implementation for the

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 accepted

2010-12-02 Thread Tarek Ziadé
2010/12/2 Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de: Am 02.12.2010 21:48, schrieb Tarek Ziadé: On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 9:24 PM, Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de wrote: Since discussion has trailed off without any blocking objections, I'm accepting PEP 384. Martin, you may mark the PEP accepted and

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

2010-12-02 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
Martin v. Löwis wrote: [...] For direct entry by an interactive user, yes. Why are some people in this discussion thinking only of direct entry by an interactive user? Ultimately, somebody will have entered the data. I don't think you really believe that all data processed by a computer was

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 accepted

2010-12-02 Thread Martin v. Löwis
So the question still stands: Why not implementing this in Distutils2 ? Because it then wouldn't be available in Python 3.2, which is the target release of the PEP. If that really causes too much pain, I'll refrain from making any changes to distutils; PEP 384 doesn't specify any changes,

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

2010-12-02 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Arabic numerals are being used a lot nowadays in Asian countries, but that doesn't mean that the native script versions are not being used anymore. I never claimed that people are not using their local scripts to enter numbers. However, none of your examples is about Chinese numerals using an

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

2010-12-02 Thread Steven D'Aprano
Martin v. Löwis wrote: Then these users should speak up and indicate their need, or somebody should speak up and confirm that there are users who actually want '١٢٣٤.٥٦' to denote 1234.56. To my knowledge, there is no writing system in which '١٢٣٤.٥٦e4' means 12345600.0. I'm not sure what

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 accepted

2010-12-02 Thread Tarek Ziadé
2010/12/2 Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de: So the question still stands: Why not implementing this in Distutils2 ? Because it then wouldn't be available in Python 3.2, which is the target release of the PEP. The exact feature I am mentioning is the ability to compile extensions with new

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

2010-12-02 Thread Alexander Belopolsky
On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: .. I don't think so.  str.split() and str.splitlines() are also defined in conformance to the SPEC, AFAIK.  They certainly try to. You are joking, right? Where exactly does Unicode specify something like this:

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

2010-12-02 Thread Antoine Pitrou
Le jeudi 02 décembre 2010 à 16:34 -0500, Alexander Belopolsky a écrit : On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: .. I don't think so. str.split() and str.splitlines() are also defined in conformance to the SPEC, AFAIK. They certainly try to. You are

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 accepted

2010-12-02 Thread Martin v. Löwis
I was told not to touch to Distutils code to avoid any regression since it's patched to the bones in third party products. So we decided to freeze distutils and add all new features in Distutils2, which is at alpha stage now. So this move seems contradictory to me. I think it was a bad

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

2010-12-02 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 02.12.2010 22:30, schrieb Steven D'Aprano: Martin v. Löwis wrote: Then these users should speak up and indicate their need, or somebody should speak up and confirm that there are users who actually want '١٢٣٤.٥٦' to denote 1234.56. To my knowledge, there is no writing system in which

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

2010-12-02 Thread Alexander Belopolsky
On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 4:14 PM, M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: .. Have you tried Google ? I tried google at I could not find any plain text or HTML file that would use Arabic-Indic numerals. What was interesting, though that a search for quran unicode (without quotes). Brought me to

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 accepted

2010-12-02 Thread Tarek Ziadé
2010/12/2 Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de: I was told not to touch to Distutils code to avoid any regression since it's patched to the bones in third party products. So we decided to freeze distutils and add all new features in Distutils2, which is at alpha stage now.  So this move seems

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 accepted

2010-12-02 Thread Michael Foord
On 02/12/2010 21:39, Martin v. Löwis wrote: I was told not to touch to Distutils code to avoid any regression since it's patched to the bones in third party products. So we decided to freeze distutils and add all new features in Distutils2, which is at alpha stage now. So this move seems

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

2010-12-02 Thread Mark Dickinson
On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 8:23 PM, Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de wrote: In the case of number parsing, I think Python would be better if float() rejected non-ASCII strings, and any support for such parsing should be redone correctly in a different place (preferably along with printing of

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

2010-12-02 Thread Eric Smith
On 12/2/2010 4:48 PM, Martin v. Löwis wrote: Am 02.12.2010 22:30, schrieb Steven D'Aprano: Martin v. Löwis wrote: Then these users should speak up and indicate their need, or somebody should speak up and confirm that there are users who actually want '١٢٣٤.٥٦' to denote 1234.56. To my

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 accepted

2010-12-02 Thread Martin v. Löwis
This freeze made the situation worse. Can you extend on this and explains why it makes it worse ? Before the freeze, distutils was unmaintained (i.e. before you started maintaining it), but people who want to improve it gradually atleast could. Now gradual improvements are also banned, so

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 accepted

2010-12-02 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 02.12.2010 22:54, schrieb Michael Foord: On 02/12/2010 21:39, Martin v. Löwis wrote: I was told not to touch to Distutils code to avoid any regression since it's patched to the bones in third party products. So we decided to freeze distutils and add all new features in Distutils2, which is

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 accepted

2010-12-02 Thread Tarek Ziadé
2010/12/2 Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de: Am 02.12.2010 22:54, schrieb Michael Foord: On 02/12/2010 21:39, Martin v. Löwis wrote: I was told not to touch to Distutils code to avoid any regression since it's patched to the bones in third party products. So we decided to freeze distutils

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 accepted

2010-12-02 Thread Martin v. Löwis
The distutils is unmaintained situation. It's not only unmaintained now, but proposed improvements are rejected without consideration, on the grounds that they are changes. I welcome those changes in Distutils2. That's the whole point. That would be useful if there was a clear vision of

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

2010-12-02 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
Eric Smith wrote: The current behavior should go nowhere; it is not useful. Something very similar to the current behavior (but done correctly) should go into the locale module. I agree with everything Martin says here. I think the basic premise is: you won't find strings in the wild that

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 accepted

2010-12-02 Thread Tarek Ziadé
2010/12/2 Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de: This freeze made the situation worse. Can you extend on this and explains why it makes it worse ? Before the freeze, distutils was unmaintained (i.e. before you started maintaining it), but people who want to improve it gradually atleast could.

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 accepted

2010-12-02 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 23:21:25 +0100 Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de wrote: Am 02.12.2010 22:54, schrieb Michael Foord: On 02/12/2010 21:39, Martin v. Löwis wrote: I was told not to touch to Distutils code to avoid any regression since it's patched to the bones in third party products. So

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 accepted

2010-12-02 Thread Tarek Ziadé
2010/12/2 Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de: The distutils is unmaintained situation. It's not only unmaintained now, but proposed improvements are rejected without consideration, on the grounds that they are changes. I welcome those changes in Distutils2. That's the whole point. That

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 accepted

2010-12-02 Thread Barry Warsaw
On Dec 02, 2010, at 11:21 PM, Martin v. Löwis wrote: Well, the PEP 384 text in PEP 3149 specifies a change. It's not clear whether this change was accepted when PEP 3149 was accepted, or whether it was accepted when PEP 384 was accepted, or whether it was not accepted at all, or whether it was

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 accepted

2010-12-02 Thread Martin v. Löwis
No, only the ones that didn't cause backwards incompatibilities, and broke existing packages. This is impossible. I can point you to some third party project that can break if you touch some distutils internals, like setuptools. Setuptools also uses some privates global variables in some

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

2010-12-02 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
Alexander Belopolsky wrote: On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 4:14 PM, M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: .. Have you tried Google ? I tried google at I could not find any plain text or HTML file that would use Arabic-Indic numerals. What was interesting, though that a search for quran unicode

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

2010-12-02 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
Terry Reedy wrote: On 11/29/2010 10:19 AM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: Nick Coghlan wrote: On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 9:02 PM, M.-A. Lemburgm...@egenix.com wrote: If we would go down that road, we would also have to disable other Unicode features based on locale, e.g. whether to apply non-ASCII case

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 accepted

2010-12-02 Thread Martin v. Löwis
I think distutils is simply a bugfix branch for distutils2. Similarly as how we don't commit improvements in e.g. 2.7 or 3.1, neither do we commit improvements to distutils. It's different, though, in the sense that Python has a release schedule and multiple committers working on it, and that

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

2010-12-02 Thread Alexander Belopolsky
On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 5:58 PM, M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: .. I will change my mind on this issue when you present a machine-readable file with Arabic-Indic numerals and a program capable of reading it and show that this program uses the same number parsing algorithm as Python's

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

2010-12-02 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 02.12.2010 23:43, schrieb M.-A. Lemburg: Eric Smith wrote: The current behavior should go nowhere; it is not useful. Something very similar to the current behavior (but done correctly) should go into the locale module. I agree with everything Martin says here. I think the basic premise

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

2010-12-02 Thread Eric Smith
On 12/2/2010 5:43 PM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: Eric Smith wrote: The current behavior should go nowhere; it is not useful. Something very similar to the current behavior (but done correctly) should go into the locale module. I agree with everything Martin says here. I think the basic premise is:

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 accepted

2010-12-02 Thread Michael Foord
On 02/12/2010 23:01, Martin v. Löwis wrote: [snip...] I'm just getting tired having to talk to five projects just to make a single change to the build infrastructure available to the Python community. The very best hope of resolving that particular problem is distutils2. :-) distutils2 is

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 accepted

2010-12-02 Thread Tarek Ziadé
2010/12/2 Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de: No, only the ones that didn't cause backwards incompatibilities, and broke existing packages. This is impossible. I can point you to some third party project that can break if you touch some distutils internals, like setuptools. Setuptools also

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

2010-12-02 Thread Martin v. Löwis
The point is that we support all of Unicode in Python, not just a fragment, and therefore the numeric constructors support all of Unicode. That conclusion is as false today as it was in Python 1.6, but only now people start caring about that. a) we don't support all of Unicode in numeric

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

2010-12-02 Thread M.-A. Lemburg
Eric Smith wrote: On 12/2/2010 5:43 PM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: Eric Smith wrote: The current behavior should go nowhere; it is not useful. Something very similar to the current behavior (but done correctly) should go into the locale module. I agree with everything Martin says here. I think

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 accepted

2010-12-02 Thread Martin v. Löwis
From my point of view, the PEP 3149 text is just a proposal. It leaves the final decision to PEP 384, but tries to address some of the issues raised during the PEP 3149 discussion. I think it is within PEP 384's scope to make the final decisions about it. Ok, then it looks like there just

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 accepted

2010-12-02 Thread Martin v. Löwis
An alpha is already released. A beta will be released for Pycon (I need it for my talk :) ) Then hopefully the final before 3.2 Ok, that's promising. Regards, Martin ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 accepted

2010-12-02 Thread Tarek Ziadé
On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 12:01 AM, Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de wrote: I think distutils is simply a bugfix branch for distutils2. Similarly as how we don't commit improvements in e.g. 2.7 or 3.1, neither do we commit improvements to distutils. It's different, though, in the sense that

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 accepted

2010-12-02 Thread Amaury Forgeot d'Arc
Hi, 2010/12/3 Michael Foord fuzzy...@voidspace.org.uk On 02/12/2010 23:01, Martin v. Löwis wrote: [snip...] I'm just getting tired having to talk to five projects just to make a single change to the build infrastructure available to the Python community. The very best hope of resolving

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

2010-12-02 Thread Alexander Belopolsky
On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 4:14 PM, M.-A. Lemburg m...@egenix.com wrote: .. Some examples: http://www.bdl.gov.lb/circ/intpdf/int123.pdf I looked at this one more closely. While I cannot understand what it says, It appears that Arabic numerals are used in dates. It looks like Python want be able

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

2010-12-02 Thread Steven D'Aprano
Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Steven D'Aprano writes: With full respect to haiyang kang, hear-say from one person can hardly be described as strong evidence That's *disrespectful* nonsense. What Haiyang reported was not hearsay, it's direct observation of what he sees around him and

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 accepted

2010-12-02 Thread Michael Foord
On 02/12/2010 23:51, Amaury Forgeot d'Arc wrote: Hi, 2010/12/3 Michael Foord fuzzy...@voidspace.org.uk mailto:fuzzy...@voidspace.org.uk On 02/12/2010 23:01, Martin v. Löwis wrote: [snip...] I'm just getting tired having to talk to five projects just to make

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 accepted

2010-12-02 Thread Barry Warsaw
On Dec 03, 2010, at 12:51 AM, Amaury Forgeot d'Arc wrote: Sure. But today (before 3.2b1) we want to merge PEP3149 and PEP384; they change the paths and filenames used by python. Either we modify distutils to comply with the new names, or defer these PEPs until distutils2 is ready. I do not think

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 accepted

2010-12-02 Thread Matthias Klose
On 03.12.2010 00:25, Tarek Ziadé wrote: 2010/12/2 Martin v. Löwismar...@v.loewis.de: No, only the ones that didn't cause backwards incompatibilities, and broke existing packages. This is impossible. I can point you to some third party project that can break if you touch some distutils

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

2010-12-02 Thread Terry Reedy
On 12/2/2010 6:54 PM, Alexander Belopolsky wrote: On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 4:14 PM, M.-A. Lemburgm...@egenix.com wrote: .. Some examples: http://www.bdl.gov.lb/circ/intpdf/int123.pdf I looked at this one more closely. While I cannot understand what it says, It appears that Arabic numerals

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 accepted

2010-12-02 Thread Éric Araujo
even without having any changes in distutils it would make sense to know if an extension can be built with the restricted ABI, so maybe it is better to defer any changes to the extension soname, and provide a check for an extension if it conforms to the restricted ABI, even if the

Re: [Python-Dev] Porting Ideas

2010-12-02 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Martin v. Löwis writes: Aside: how does one log into the Cheeseshop with your Launchpad OpenID? When I try to do it I end up on a Manual user registration page. I fill out the username with what I think my PyPI user name is, and add my python.org email address, but then

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

2010-12-02 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Lennart Regebro writes: 2010/12/2 Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org: T1000 = float('一.◯◯◯') That was already discussed here, and it's clear that unicode does not consider these characters to be something you can use in a decimal number, and hence it's not broken. Huh? IOW,

Re: [Python-Dev] Porting Ideas

2010-12-02 Thread Éric Araujo
Hi Prashant, Python 3 support in distutils2 is not entirely finished, it’s an interesting and challenging task. Another idea: convert the python.org internal scripts to use Python 3, for example starting with patches for http://code.python.org/hg/peps/ . This would not have any impact on the

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

2010-12-02 Thread haiyang kang
Furthermore, data can well originate from texts that were written hundreds or even thousands of years ago, so there is plenty of material available for processing. humm..., for this, i think we need a special tuned language processing system to handle this, and one subsystem for one language

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

2010-12-02 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Neil Hodgson writes: While I don't have Excel to test with, OpenOffice.org Calc will display in Arabic or Han numerals using the NatNum format codes. Display is different from input, but at least this is concrete evidence. Will it accept Arabic on input? (Han might be too much to ask

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

2010-12-02 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Antoine Pitrou writes: The legacy format argument looks like a red herring to me. When converting from a format to another it is the programmer's job to his/her job right. Uhmm, the argument *for* this feature proposed by several people is that Python's numeric constructors do it

Re: [Python-Dev] Python and the Unicode Character Database

2010-12-02 Thread Alexander Belopolsky
On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 4:57 PM, Mark Dickinson dicki...@gmail.com wrote: .. (the decimal spec requires that non-European digits be accepted). Mark, I think *requires* is too strong of a word to describe what the spec says. The decimal module documentation refers to two authorities: 1. IBM’s

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 accepted

2010-12-02 Thread Éric Araujo
Le 02/12/2010 23:17, Martin v. Löwis a écrit : Before the freeze, distutils was unmaintained (i.e. before you started maintaining it), but people who want to improve it gradually atleast could. Now gradual improvements are also banned, so it's not only unmaintained, but I can't even provide

Re: [Python-Dev] Change to the Distutils / Distutils2 workflow

2010-12-02 Thread Éric Araujo
Hi everyone, I have sketched a workflow guide on http://wiki.python.org/moin/Distutils/FixingBugs Cheers ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe:

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 accepted

2010-12-02 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Python’s setup.py has an example in Martin’s branch: ext = Extension('xxlimited', ['xxlimited.c'], define_macros=[('Py_LIMITED_API', 1)]) http://codereview.appspot.com/3262043/patch/1/68 This is possible with today’s distutils. I don’t know if it’s enough to build

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 384 accepted

2010-12-02 Thread Martin v. Löwis
I wonder what your definition of “unmaintained” is. In this specific case: doesn't get feature requests acted upon. I'm well aware that you are fixing bugs, and that is appreciated. Sure, distutils is not as well-maintained as other modules, but a dozen bugs have been fixed by five or six of

Re: [Python-Dev] Porting Ideas

2010-12-02 Thread Martin v. Löwis
It would be nice if the UI told users that, and offered an opportunity to log in. Better yet would be a option for an OpenID to claim a user name by giving the password for it (ie, automatically on a successful login from that page). So many projects, so little time. Contributions are