[Python-Dev] order of Misc/ACKS

2011-11-11 Thread Eli Bendersky
The PS: at the top of Misc/ACKS says: PS: In the standard Python distribution, this file is encoded in UTF-8 and the list is in rough alphabetical order by last names. However, the last 3 names in the list don't appear to be part of that alphabetical order. Is this somehow intentional, or just a

Re: [Python-Dev] order of Misc/ACKS

2011-11-11 Thread Eli Bendersky
The key point here is that it is *rough* alphabetic order. IMO, sorting accented characters along with their unaccented versions would be fine as well, and be more practical. In general, it's not possible to provide a correct alphabetic order. For example, in German, 'ö' sorts after 'o',

[Python-Dev] documenting the Hg commit message hooks in the devguide

2011-11-11 Thread Eli Bendersky
Hi, Our Hg repo has some useful hooks on commit messages that allow to specify which issue to notify for commits, and which issue to close. AFAIU, it's currently documented only in the code of the hook (http://hg.python.org/hooks/file/tip/hgroundup.py). I think adding a short description into

Re: [Python-Dev] documenting the Hg commit message hooks in the devguide

2011-11-12 Thread Eli Bendersky
Our Hg repo has some useful hooks on commit messages that allow to specify which issue to notify for commits, and which issue to close. AFAIU, it's currently documented only in the code of the hook (http://hg.python.org/hooks/file/tip/hgroundup.py). I think adding a short description into

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] cpython (2.7): Normalize the keyword arguments documentation notation in re.rst. Closes issue

2011-11-13 Thread Eli Bendersky
http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/87ecfd5cd5d1 changeset:   73541:87ecfd5cd5d1 branch:      2.7 parent:      73529:c3b063c82ae5 user:        Eli Benderskyeli...@gmail.com date:        Mon Nov 14 01:02:20 2011 +0200 summary:   Normalize the keyword arguments documentation notation in re.rst.

[Python-Dev] file.readinto performance regression in Python 3.2 vs. 2.7?

2011-11-24 Thread Eli Bendersky
Hi there, I was doing some experiments with the buffer interface of bytearray today, for the purpose of quickly reading a file's contents into a bytearray which I can then modify. I decided to do some benchmarking and ran into surprising results. Here are the functions I was timing: def

Re: [Python-Dev] file.readinto performance regression in Python 3.2 vs. 2.7?

2011-11-24 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 20:29, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 20:15:25 +0200 Eli Bendersky eli...@gmail.com wrote: Oops, readinto takes the same time as copying. This is a real shame, because readinto in conjunction with the buffer interface was supposed

Re: [Python-Dev] file.readinto performance regression in Python 3.2 vs. 2.7?

2011-11-24 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 00:02, Matt Joiner anacro...@gmail.com wrote: What if you broke up the read and built the final string object up. I always assumed this is where the real gain was with read_into. Matt, I'm not sure what you mean by this - can you suggest the code? Also, I'd be happy to

Re: [Python-Dev] file.readinto performance regression in Python 3.2 vs. 2.7?

2011-11-24 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 20:53:30 +0200 Eli Bendersky eli...@gmail.com wrote: Sure. Updated the default branch just now and built: $1 -m timeit -s'import fileread_bytearray' 'fileread_bytearray.justread()' 1000 loops, best of 3: 1.14 msec per loop $1 -m timeit -s'import

Re: [Python-Dev] file.readinto performance regression in Python 3.2 vs. 2.7?

2011-11-24 Thread Eli Bendersky
Eli, the use pattern I was referring to is when you read in chunks, and and append to a running buffer. Presumably if you know in advance the size of the data, you can readinto directly to a region of a bytearray. There by avoiding having to allocate a temporary buffer for the read, and

Re: [Python-Dev] file.readinto performance regression in Python 3.2 vs. 2.7?

2011-11-25 Thread Eli Bendersky
However, the original question remains - on the 100MB file also, although in 2.7 readinto is 35% faster than readandcopy(), on 3.2 it's about the same speed (even a few % slower). That said, I now observe with Python 3.3 the same speed as with 2.7, including the readinto() speedup - so it

Re: [Python-Dev] file.readinto performance regression in Python 3.2 vs. 2.7?

2011-11-25 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 14:02, Matt Joiner anacro...@gmail.com wrote: I was under the impression this is already in 3.3? Sure, but 3.3 wasn't released yet. Eli P.S. Top-posting again ;-) ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org

Re: [Python-Dev] Fixing the XML batteries

2011-12-09 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Sat, Dec 10, 2011 at 00:43, Matt Joiner anacro...@gmail.com wrote: I second this. The doco is very bad. It would be constructive to open issues for specific problems in the documentation. I'm sure this won't be hard to fix. Documentation should not be the roadblock for using a library. Eli

Re: [Python-Dev] French sprint this week-end

2011-12-16 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 11:00, Stefan Krah ste...@bytereef.org wrote: Victor Stinner victor.stin...@haypocalc.com wrote: Do you know simple task to start contributing to Python? Something useful and not boring if possible :-) There is the easy tag on the bug tracker, but many issues have a

Re: [Python-Dev] Python as a Metro-style App

2012-01-07 Thread Eli Bendersky
A then-related question is whether Python 3.3 should be compiled with Visual Studio 11. I'd still be in favor of that, provided Microsoft manages to release that soon enough. Martin, I assume you mean the Express version of Visual Studio 11 here, right? Eli

Re: [Python-Dev] Documenting Python is moving to devguide

2012-01-14 Thread Eli Bendersky
The section is still available in the cpython repo, and I'm waiting to remove it because it's better to have some redirections in place from the current urls to the new ones. I've prepared a small set of RewriteRules (attached): I don't know the actual setup of apache for docs.p.o but at

Re: [Python-Dev] Dinsdale is no more

2012-01-15 Thread Eli Bendersky
2012/1/15 Łukasz Langa luk...@langa.pl Gentlemen, www.python.org is down at the moment. Well, it's back now: http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/python.org Eli ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org

[Python-Dev] PEP 408 -- Standard library __preview__ package

2012-01-27 Thread Eli Bendersky
Eli --- PEP: 408 Title: Standard library __preview__ package Version: $Revision$ Last-Modified: $Date$ Author: Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com, Eli Bendersky eli...@gmail.com Status: Draft Type: Standards Track Content-Type: text/x-rst Created: 2012-01-07 Python

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 408 -- Standard library __preview__ package

2012-01-27 Thread Eli Bendersky
Assuming the module is then promoted to the the standard library proper in release ``3.X+1``, it will be moved to a permanent location in the library::     import example And importing it from ``__preview__`` will no longer work. Why not leave it accessible through __preview__ too? I

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 408 -- Standard library __preview__ package

2012-01-27 Thread Eli Bendersky
Something along the lines of : if sys.version_info[:2] == (3, X):        from __preview__ import example else:        raise ImportError( 'Package example is only available as preview in Python version 3.X. Please check the documentation of your version of Python to see if and how you can

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 408 -- Standard library __preview__ package

2012-01-27 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Fri, Jan 27, 2012 at 17:34, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org wrote: 2012/1/27 Eli Bendersky eli...@gmail.com: Criteria for graduation - I think you also need Criteria for being placed in __preview__. Do we just toss everything someone suggests in? I hoped

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 408 -- Standard library __preview__ package

2012-01-27 Thread Eli Bendersky
No, potentially wrong in cases where the APIs are different. Even with the try...except ImportError dance around StringIO / cStringIO there are some API differences. But for a lot of use cases it works fine (simplejson and json aren't *identical*, but it works for most people). Okay,

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 408 -- Standard library __preview__ package

2012-01-27 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Sat, Jan 28, 2012 at 07:41, Stephen J. Turnbull step...@xemacs.org wrote: Eli Bendersky writes:   My point is that if our users accept *this*, in the stable stdlib, I   see no reason they won't accept the same happening between __preview__   and a graduated module, when they (hopefully

Re: [Python-Dev] #include Python.h

2012-01-29 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 17:34, Andrea Crotti andrea.crott...@gmail.com wrote: I have a newbie question about CPython. Looking at the C code I noted that for example in tupleobject.c there is only one include #include Python.h Python.h actually includes everything as far as I can I see so: -

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 409 - Accepted!

2012-02-03 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 22:14, Ethan Furman et...@stoneleaf.us wrote: Good news!  PEP 409 has been accepted! Not so good news:  There is no one assigned to Issue 6210 to review the patches... any volunteers? http://bugs.python.org/issue6210 Hi Ethan, I've just looked at PEP 409 online

Re: [Python-Dev] Fixing the XML batteries

2012-02-06 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Fri, Dec 9, 2011 at 10:02, Stefan Behnel stefan...@behnel.de wrote: Hi everyone, I think Py3.3 would be a good milestone for cleaning up the stdlib support for XML. Note upfront: you may or may not know me as the maintainer of lxml, the de-facto non-stdlib standard Python XML tool. This

Re: [Python-Dev] Fixing the XML batteries

2012-02-06 Thread Eli Bendersky
What should change? a) The stdlib documentation should help users to choose the right tool right from the start. Instead of using the totally misleading wording that it uses now, it should be honest about the performance characteristics of MiniDOM and should actively suggest that those who

Re: [Python-Dev] Fixing the XML batteries

2012-02-07 Thread Eli Bendersky
On one hand I agree that ET should be emphasized since it's the better API with a much faster implementation. But I also understand Martin's point of view that minidom has its place, so IMHO some sort of compromise should be reached. Perhaps we can recommend using ET for those not

[Python-Dev] folding cElementTree behind ElementTree in 3.3

2012-02-07 Thread Eli Bendersky
Hello, Here's a note from What's new in Python 3.0: A common pattern in Python 2.x is to have one version of a module implemented in pure Python, with an optional accelerated version implemented as a C extension; for example, pickle and cPickle. This places the burden of importing the

Re: [Python-Dev] folding cElementTree behind ElementTree in 3.3

2012-02-07 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 06:41, Fred Drake fdr...@acm.org wrote: On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 11:31 PM, Eli Bendersky eli...@gmail.com wrote: Besides, in http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2011-December/114812.html Stefan Behnel said [...] Today, ET is *only* being maintained in the stdlib

Re: [Python-Dev] folding cElementTree behind ElementTree in 3.3

2012-02-07 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 06:15, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 1:59 PM, Eli Bendersky eli...@gmail.com wrote: Is there a good reason why xml.etree.ElementTree / xml.etree.cElementTree did not receive this treatment? See PEP 360, which lists Externally Maintained

Re: [Python-Dev] folding cElementTree behind ElementTree in 3.3

2012-02-07 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 07:10, Fred Drake fdr...@acm.org wrote: On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 11:46 PM, Eli Bendersky eli...@gmail.com wrote: The initial proposal of changing *the stdlib import facade* for xml.etree.ElementTree to use the C accelerator (_elementtree) by default. I guess this is one

Re: [Python-Dev] folding cElementTree behind ElementTree in 3.3

2012-02-07 Thread Eli Bendersky
The facade can be added to xml/etree/ElementTree.py since that's the only documented module. It can attempt to do: from _elementtree import * (which is what cElementTree.py) does, and on failure, just go on doing what it does now. Basically, cElementTree (actually the accelerator module)

Re: [Python-Dev] folding cElementTree behind ElementTree in 3.3

2012-02-08 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 11:36, Dirkjan Ochtman dirk...@ochtman.nl wrote: On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 08:37, Stefan Behnel stefan...@behnel.de wrote: I didn't get a response from him to my e-mails since early 2010. Maybe others have more luck if they try, but I don't have the impression that waiting

Re: [Python-Dev] folding cElementTree behind ElementTree in 3.3

2012-02-08 Thread Eli Bendersky
It's not frozen, it's actually maintained. Indeed, it sounds like the most appropriate course (if we don't hear otherwise from Fredrik) may be to just update PEP 360 to acknowledge current reality (i.e. the most current release of ElementTree is actually the one maintained by Florent in the

Re: [Python-Dev] folding cElementTree behind ElementTree in 3.3

2012-02-09 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 10:04 PM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: It's not frozen, it's actually maintained. Indeed, it sounds like the most appropriate course (if we don't hear otherwise from Fredrik) may be to just update PEP 360 to acknowledge current reality (i.e. the most

Re: [Python-Dev] folding cElementTree behind ElementTree in 3.3

2012-02-09 Thread Eli Bendersky
That said, I think that the particular change discussed in this thread can be made anyway, since it doesn't really modify ET's APIs or functionality, just the way it gets imported from stdlib. I would suggest that, assuming python-dev want to take ownership of the module, one last-ditch

Re: [Python-Dev] folding cElementTree behind ElementTree in 3.3

2012-02-10 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 10:32, Florent florent.xicl...@gmail.com wrote: 2012/2/10 Eli Bendersky eli...@gmail.com Thanks for the input, Florent. So, to paraphrase, there already are code changes in the stdlib version of ET/cET which are not upstream. You made it explicit about the tests, so

Re: [Python-Dev] folding cElementTree behind ElementTree in 3.3

2012-02-10 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 11:43, Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de wrote: IMHO it's no longer a question of wanting to take ownership. According to Florent, this has already happened to some extent. Ownership to some extent is not a useful concept. Either you have ownership, or you don't. I

[Python-Dev] maintenance of the ElementTree / cElementTree packages in the Python standard library

2012-02-10 Thread Eli Bendersky
Hello Fredrik, Recently a discussion came up on the python-dev mailing list regarding continued maintenance of the ElementTree cElementTree packages which are part of the standard library, and which were originally contributed by you. There currently exists an unclear situation with respect to

Re: [Python-Dev] folding cElementTree behind ElementTree in 3.3

2012-02-10 Thread Eli Bendersky
What happens now? Do we give up on touching it until Fredrik Lundh decides on a come-back or some person who is willing to commit 5 years is found? Or do we just *keep* maintaining it in the stdlib as we do with other modules, fixing bugs, tests, documentation and so on? If we really can't

[Python-Dev] Fwd: maintenance of the ElementTree / cElementTree packages in the Python standard library

2012-02-10 Thread Eli Bendersky
-- Forwarded message -- From: Fredrik Lundh fred...@pythonware.com Date: Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 13:16 Subject: Re: maintenance of the ElementTree / cElementTree packages in the Python standard library To: Eli Bendersky eli...@gmail.com Hi Eli, thanks for reaching out.  I'll get

[Python-Dev] PEP 411: Provisional packages in the Python standard library

2012-02-10 Thread Eli Bendersky
in the Python standard library Version: $Revision$ Last-Modified: $Date$ Author: Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com, Eli Bendersky eli...@gmail.com Status: Draft Type: Informational Content-Type: text/x-rst Created: 2012-02-10 Python-Version: 3.3 Post-History: 2012-02-10 Abstract

Re: [Python-Dev] folding cElementTree behind ElementTree in 3.3

2012-02-10 Thread Eli Bendersky
snip A common pattern in Python 2.x is to have one version of a module implemented in pure Python, with an optional accelerated version implemented as a C extension; for example, pickle and cPickle. This places the burden of importing the accelerated version and falling back on the pure

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 411: Provisional packages in the Python standard library

2012-02-10 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 20:33, Brett Cannon br...@python.org wrote: Other than the misspelling of maintenante instead of maintenance, LGTM. Fixed that and another typo (thanks 'aspell' :-] ) Eli ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 411: Provisional packages in the Python standard library

2012-02-10 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 22:13, Jim J. Jewett jimjjew...@gmail.com wrote: Eli Bendersky wrote (in http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2012-February/116393.html ): A package will be marked provisional by including the following paragraph as a note at the top of its documentation page

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 411: Provisional packages in the Python standard library

2012-02-10 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 23:56, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote: On 2/10/2012 9:06 AM, Eli Bendersky wrote: Whenever the Python core development team decides that a new package should be included into the standard library, but isn't entirely sure about whether the package's API is optimal

Re: [Python-Dev] http://pythonmentors.com/

2012-02-10 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 03:38, Jesse Noller jnol...@gmail.com wrote: I've been trying to publicize it on twitter, my blog, google plus and elsewhere. help welcome. It also appears in the first paragraph of Contributing in the dev guide - which is pointed to by the main page at python.org

Re: [Python-Dev] http://pythonmentors.com/

2012-02-10 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 08:27, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 1:14 PM, Eli Bendersky eli...@gmail.com wrote: Mark, do you have a concrete idea of how it can be made more prominent? Mark didn't know about it because the core-mentorship list didn't exist yet

Re: [Python-Dev] http://pythonmentors.com/

2012-02-11 Thread Eli Bendersky
Eli, quite frankly no :( The stock answer put it on the main page at python.org if actually followed up in all cases would result in something unreadable, as the page would be too noisy and displayed in something like Palatino size 1 (if there is such a thing). I'm just crossing my fingers

Re: [Python-Dev] folding cElementTree behind ElementTree in 3.3

2012-02-13 Thread Eli Bendersky
Since there appeared to be an overall positive response for making this change in Python 3.3, and since there isn't longer any doubt about the ownership of the package *in Python's stdlib* (see http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2012-February/116389.html), I've opened issue 13988 on

Re: [Python-Dev] folding cElementTree behind ElementTree in 3.3

2012-02-13 Thread Eli Bendersky
The change was committed to the default branch. In 3.3, import xml.etree.ElementTree will automatically use the _elementtree accelerator, if available, and will fall back to a Python implementation otherwise. The documentation of ElementTree has also been updated to reflect this fact. An

Re: [Python-Dev] folding cElementTree behind ElementTree in 3.3

2012-02-13 Thread Eli Bendersky
Currently in 3.3 the whole cElementTree module is: # Deprecated alias for xml.etree.ElementTree from xml.etree.ElementTree import * Would it be alright to issue a DeprecationWarning if this module is imported? Then hopefully a couple of releases after 3.3 we can just dump it.

Re: [Python-Dev] folding cElementTree behind ElementTree in 3.3

2012-02-16 Thread Eli Bendersky
I'd still like to know who is in charge of the etree package now. I know that I'm not, so I just don't have any opinion on the technical question of using the accelerator module (it sounds like a reasonable idea, but it also sounds like something that may break existing code). If the

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] cpython: Disabling a test that fails on some bots. Will investigate the failure soon

2012-02-16 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 05:50, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 2:09 AM, eli.bendersky python-check...@python.org wrote: diff --git a/Lib/test/test_xml_etree_c.py b/Lib/test/test_xml_etree_c.py --- a/Lib/test/test_xml_etree_c.py +++

Re: [Python-Dev] folding cElementTree behind ElementTree in 3.3

2012-02-20 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 01:12, Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de wrote: The change of backing ElementTree by cElementTree has already been implemented in the default branch (3.3) by Florent Xicluna with careful review from me and others. etree has an extensive (albeit a bit clumsy) set

Re: [Python-Dev] folding cElementTree behind ElementTree in 3.3

2012-02-20 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 00:51, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 1:55 AM, mar...@v.loewis.de wrote: Basically, if something is just documented as being callable without subclassing or instance checks being mentioned as supported in the docs, it can be

Re: [Python-Dev] folding cElementTree behind ElementTree in 3.3

2012-02-21 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 03:59, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 11:39 AM, Eli Bendersky eli...@gmail.com wrote: So the two choices here are either change the documentation or the C implementation to actually make Element a class. The first is of course simpler

Re: [Python-Dev] folding cElementTree behind ElementTree in 3.3

2012-02-21 Thread Eli Bendersky
I'm happy to stand up as an example of someone who uses a custom Element class. My specific use case is loading the project Gutenberg database, which is a 210MB XML file. I created a custom Element class which I use for the top-level element (a custom element_factory passed to TreeBuilder

Re: [Python-Dev] folding cElementTree behind ElementTree in 3.3

2012-02-21 Thread Eli Bendersky
I can't fathom why someone would do it though, since bar tiny differences (like this one) cET is just a faster ET and it's available practically everywhere with CPython. I mean, is it really important to be able to subclass ET.Element? What goal does it serve? Statements like this make

Re: [Python-Dev] Status regarding Old vs. Advanced String Formating

2012-02-26 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Sat, Feb 25, 2012 at 12:20, Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de wrote: I find that strange, especially for an expert Python dev. I, a newbie, find it far friendlier (and easier for a new programmer to grasp). Maybe it's because I use it all the time, and you don't? That is most likely

Re: [Python-Dev] Status regarding Old vs. Advanced String Formating

2012-02-26 Thread Eli Bendersky
Indeed, that note was written before we decided that getting rid of % formatting altogether would be a bad idea. It would be better to update it to say something like: The formatting operations described here are modelled on C's printf() syntax. They only support formatting of certain

Re: [Python-Dev] folding cElementTree behind ElementTree in 3.3

2012-02-26 Thread Eli Bendersky
It probably wouldn't be very difficult to make element_new() the tp_new of Element_Type, and expose that type as Element. That would settle the issue nicely and avoid compatibility concerns :) Regards I guess it's not as simple as that. element_new doesn't quite have the signature required

Re: [Python-Dev] struct.pack inconsistencies between platforms

2012-02-26 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 12:33, pmon mail pmon.m...@gmail.com wrote: Hi I have found myself in the following troubling situation. I'm running the following code on a Python 2.6.5 on Linux x86: Python 2.6.5 (r265:79063, Apr 16 2010, 13:09:56) [GCC 4.4.3] on linux2 Type help, copyright,

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] cpython (3.2): Issue #14123: Explicitly mention that old style % string formatting has caveats

2012-02-26 Thread Eli Bendersky
- The formatting operations described here are obsolete and may go away in future - versions of Python. Use the new :ref:`string-formatting` in new code. + The formatting operations described here are modelled on C's printf() + syntax. They only support formatting of certain

Re: [Python-Dev] struct.pack inconsistencies between platforms

2012-02-26 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 15:09, Paul Moore p.f.mo...@gmail.com wrote: On 26 February 2012 12:34, Eli Bendersky eli...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 12:33, pmon mail pmon.m...@gmail.com wrote: Documentation clearly states that the 'L' is a 4 byte integer. Is this a bug? I'm I

Re: [Python-Dev] cpython (3.2): Issue #14123: Explicitly mention that old style % string formatting has caveats

2012-02-26 Thread Eli Bendersky
It would be nice to call it something else than printf-style formatting. While it is certainly modelled on printf(), knowledge of C or printf is not required to understand %-style formatting, nor even to appreciate it. +1. The section is already titled old string formatting operations so if

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 416: Add a frozendict builtin type

2012-02-29 Thread Eli Bendersky
Rationale = A frozendict mapping cannot be changed, but its values can be mutable (not hashable). A frozendict is hashable and so immutable if all values are hashable (immutable). The wording of the above seems very unclear to me. Do you mean A frozendict has a constant set

Re: [Python-Dev] Add a frozendict builtin type

2012-02-29 Thread Eli Bendersky
The frozenset type covers a niche case that is nice-to-have but *rarely* used. Many experienced Python users simply forget that we have a frozenset type. We don't get bug reports or feature requests about the type. When I do Python consulting work, I never see it in a client's codebase.

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 411: Provisional packages in the Python standard library

2012-02-29 Thread Eli Bendersky
I have updated PEP 411, following the input from this discussion. The updated PEP is at: http://hg.python.org/peps/file/default/pep-0411.txt Changes: - Specified that a package may remain provisional for longer than a single minor release - Shortened the suggested documentation notice, linking

[Python-Dev] slice subscripts for sequences and mappings

2012-03-03 Thread Eli Bendersky
Hello, I find a strange discrepancy in Python with regards to slice subscripting of objects, at the C API level. I mean things like obj[start:end:step]. I'd expect slice subscripts to be part of the sequence interface, and yet they are not. In fact, they are part of the mapping interface. For

Re: [Python-Dev] slice subscripts for sequences and mappings

2012-03-03 Thread Eli Bendersky
This doesn't align well with the documentation, in at least two places. snip Another place is in http://docs.python.org/dev/reference/datamodel.html: object.__getitem__(self, key) Called to implement evaluation of self[key]. For sequence types, the accepted keys should be integers and

Re: [Python-Dev] slice subscripts for sequences and mappings

2012-03-03 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 11:24, Stefan Behnel stefan...@behnel.de wrote: Eli Bendersky, 03.03.2012 09:36: I find a strange discrepancy in Python with regards to slice subscripting of objects, at the C API level. I mean things like obj[start:end:step]. I'd expect slice subscripts to be part

Re: [Python-Dev] slice subscripts for sequences and mappings

2012-03-03 Thread Eli Bendersky
I'd expect slice subscripts to be part of the sequence interface, and yet they are not. In fact, they are part of the mapping interface. For example, the list object has its slice get/set methods assigned to a PyMappingMethods struct. So does a bytes object, and pretty much every other object

Re: [Python-Dev] slice subscripts for sequences and mappings

2012-03-03 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 19:58, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 4:20 AM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: I'd expect slice subscripts to be part of the sequence interface, and yet they are not. In fact, they are part of the mapping interface. For example,

Re: [Python-Dev] slice subscripts for sequences and mappings

2012-03-03 Thread Eli Bendersky
Thomas Wouters, 03.03.2012 21:59: Why even have separate tp_as_sequence and tp_as_mapping anymore? That particular distinction never existed for Python types, so why should it exist for C types at all? I forget if there was ever a real point to it, but all it seems to do now is create

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] cpython: Fix a comment: PySequence_Fast() creates a list, not a tuple.

2012-03-05 Thread Eli Bendersky
This fix should be applied to the documentation as well. On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 08:59, larry.hastings python-check...@python.org wrote: http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/d8f68195210e changeset:   75448:d8f68195210e user:        Larry Hastings la...@hastings.org date:        Mon Mar 05 22:59:13

Re: [Python-Dev] Docs of weak stdlib modules should encourage exploration of 3rd-party alternatives

2012-03-12 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 05:07, R. David Murray rdmur...@bitdance.com wrote: I don't like any of the suggested wordings.  I have no problem with us recommending other modules, but most of the Python libraries are perfectly functional (not leaky or some other pejorative), they just aren't as

Re: [Python-Dev] Docs of weak stdlib modules should encourage exploration of 3rd-party alternatives

2012-03-12 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 05:25, C. Titus Brown c...@msu.edu wrote: On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 05:22:45AM +0200, Eli Bendersky wrote: On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 05:07, R. David Murray rdmur...@bitdance.com wrote: I don't like any of the suggested wordings. ?I have no problem with us recommending

Re: [Python-Dev] Docs of weak stdlib modules should encourage exploration of 3rd-party alternatives

2012-03-12 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 06:43, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 9:23 PM, Brian Curtin br...@python.org wrote: Downloads don't mean the code is good. Voting is gamed. I really don't think there's a good automated solution to tell us what the high-quality

Re: [Python-Dev] Docs of weak stdlib modules should encourage exploration of 3rd-party alternatives

2012-03-13 Thread Eli Bendersky
Rather than indicating apathy on the party of third party developers, this might be a sign that core Python is unapproachable or not worth the effort. For instance I have several one line patches languishing, I can't imagine how disappointing it would be to have significantly larger patches

[Python-Dev] Raising assertions on wrong element types in ElementTree

2012-03-16 Thread Eli Bendersky
Hi, [Terry suggested in http://bugs.python.org/issue13782 to raise this dilemma to python-dev. I concur.] The Element class in ElementTree (http://docs.python.org/py3k/library/xml.etree.elementtree.html) has some methods for adding new children: append, insert and extend. Currently the

[Python-Dev] PEP 411 - request for pronouncement

2012-03-23 Thread Eli Bendersky
, with a recommendation on the requirement the PEP should make of provisional modules (process details). Eli PEP: 411 Title: Provisional packages in the Python standard library Version: $Revision$ Last-Modified: $Date$ Author: Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com, Eli

Re: [Python-Dev] Playing with a new theme for the docs, iteration 2

2012-03-25 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 08:34, Georg Brandl g.bra...@gmx.net wrote: Here's another try, mainly with default browser font size, more contrast and collapsible sidebar again: http://www.python.org/~gbrandl/build/html2/ I've also added a little questionable gimmick to the sidebar (when you

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 411 - request for pronouncement

2012-03-25 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Sat, Mar 24, 2012 at 13:53, Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 10:51, Eli Bendersky eli...@gmail.com wrote: The PEP received mostly positive feedback. The only undecided point is where to specify that the package is provisional. Currently the PEP mandates

Re: [Python-Dev] Playing with a new theme for the docs, iteration 2

2012-03-25 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 21:25, Georg Brandl g.bra...@gmx.net wrote: On 25.03.2012 21:11, Steven D'Aprano wrote: Georg Brandl wrote: Thanks everyone for the overwhelmingly positive feedback.  I've committed the new design to 3.2 and 3.3 for now, and it will be live for the 3.3 docs

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 411 - request for pronouncement

2012-03-26 Thread Eli Bendersky
I think the PEP is almost ready for approval. Congratulations! A few comments: - I'd leave some wiggle room for the docs owner (Georg) about the exact formulation of the text blurb included for provisional modules and the glossary entry; I don't want the PEP to have the last word here.

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 411 - request for pronouncement

2012-03-26 Thread Eli Bendersky
I've marked it up as Approved. Thanks, and congrats! Thanks! Eli ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe:

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 411 - request for pronouncement

2012-03-26 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 05:34, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote: On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 8:23 PM, Eli Bendersky eli...@gmail.com wrote: I think the PEP is almost ready for approval. Congratulations! A few comments: - I'd leave some wiggle room for the docs owner (Georg) about

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] cpython: Issue #14065: Added cyclic GC support to ET.Element

2012-03-30 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 21:30, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.orgwrote: +def test_cyclic_gc(self): +class ShowGC: +def __init__(self, flaglist): +self.flaglist = flaglist +def __del__(self): +

Re: [Python-Dev] Suggested addition to PEP 8 for context managers

2012-04-18 Thread Eli Bendersky
Quoting from http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/#other-recommendations (with elision): Use spaces around arithmetic operators:    No:       i=i+1       submitted +=1       x = x*2 - 1       hypot2 = x*x + y*y       c = (a+b) * (a-b) End quote. I agree that this could be

Re: [Python-Dev] Open PEPs and large-scale changes for 3.3

2012-05-01 Thread Eli Bendersky
* PEP 3144: IP Address manipulation library This is pretty close to approval. Peter's addressed all the substantive comments that were made regarding the draft API, and he's going to provide an update to the PEP shortly that should get it into a state where I can mark it as Approved.

Re: [Python-Dev] Open PEPs and large-scale changes for 3.3

2012-05-01 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 16:43, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org wrote: 2012/5/1 Eli Bendersky eli...@gmail.com: Will this package go through the provisional state mandated by PEP 411 ? I don't see PEP 411 requiring any module to go through its process. You're right, it doesn't require

Re: [Python-Dev] What should we do with cProfile?

2012-05-29 Thread Eli Bendersky
As per PEP 3108, we were supposed to merge profile/cProfile into one unified module. I initially championed the change, but other things got in the way and I have never got to the point of a useful patch. I posted some code and outlined an approach how the merge could be done. However, there

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] Daily reference leaks (d9b7399d9e45): sum=462

2012-06-02 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 6:01 AM, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org wrote: 2012/6/2  solip...@pitrou.net: results for d9b7399d9e45 on branch default test_smtplib leaked [154, 154, 154] references, sum=462 Can other people reproduce this one? I

Re: [Python-Dev] Language reference updated for metaclasses

2012-06-04 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 10:38 AM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: When writing the docs for types.new_class(), I discovered that the description of the class creation process in the language reference was not only hard to follow, it was actually *incorrect* when it came to describing

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] cpython: Fix potential NameError in multiprocessing.Condition.wait()

2012-06-05 Thread Eli Bendersky
Can you add a testcase for this? On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 9:01 PM, richard.oudkerk python-check...@python.org wrote: http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/3baeb5e13dd2 changeset:   77348:3baeb5e13dd2 user:        Richard Oudkerk shibt...@gmail.com date:        Mon Jun 04 18:59:07 2012 +0100

Re: [Python-Dev] Language reference updated for metaclasses

2012-06-05 Thread Eli Bendersky
On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Eli Bendersky eli...@gmail.com wrote: if an explicit metaclass is given and it is not an instance of type(), then it is used directly as the metaclass Could you elaborate on this point

[Python-Dev] dictnotes.txt out of date?

2012-06-13 Thread Eli Bendersky
Hi pydev, I was looking at the memory allocation strategy of dict, out of curiosity, and noted that Objects/dictnotes.txt is out of date as far as the parameters go. It says about PyDict_STARTSIZE: * PyDict_STARTSIZE. Starting size of dict (unless an instance dict). Currently set to 8.

Re: [Python-Dev] dictnotes.txt out of date?

2012-06-13 Thread Eli Bendersky
I was looking at the memory allocation strategy of dict, out of curiosity, and noted that Objects/dictnotes.txt is out of date as far as the parameters go. It says about PyDict_STARTSIZE: * PyDict_STARTSIZE. Starting size of dict (unless an instance dict).    Currently set to 8. Must

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