Re: [Python-Dev] Drop support for old unsupported FreeBSD and Linux kernels?

On 1/19/2018 1:04 AM, Nathaniel Smith wrote: On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 12:27 PM, Victor Stinner wrote: CPython still has compatibility code for Linux 2.6, whereas the support of Linux 2.6.x ended in August 2011, longer than 6 years ago. Should we also drop support for old Linux kernels? If yes, w

Re: [Python-Dev] Positional-only parameters in Python

On 1/19/2018 4:49 PM, Mario Corchero wrote: I am happy to put some work into this (and Pablo Galindo in CC offered to pair on it) but it is not clear for me whether the next step is drafting a new PEP or this is just blocked on "re-evaluating" the current one. If someone can clarify we can pu

Re: [Python-Dev] Exposing different versions of a system call in Python

On 1/19/2018 11:06 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: On 20 January 2018 at 02:32, Random832 wrote: On Fri, Jan 19, 2018, at 04:28, Pablo Galindo Salgado wrote: On the other side, we have pipe and pipe2 as an example of exposing two versions when this situation happens. The question is: What is prefera

Re: [Python-Dev] GH-NNNN vs #NNNN in merge commit

On 1/25/2018 1:03 PM, Mariatta Wijaya wrote: One idea is maybe have a bot to do the squash commit, for example by commenting on GitHub: @merge-bot merge So core devs can do the above instead of pressing the commit button. Any thoughts on this? I can hardly believe that you are seriously

Re: [Python-Dev] GH-NNNN vs #NNNN in merge commit

On 1/25/2018 1:53 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: I would assume it would just go into miss-islington, but before we get ahead of ourselves and design this we need to get consensus that people like the overall idea of using a bot to do a main commits as well. I strongly dislike any idea of making me

Re: [Python-Dev] GH-NNNN vs #NNNN in merge commit

On 1/25/2018 4:22 PM, Berker Peksağ wrote: On Thu, Jan 25, 2018 at 11:50 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: On 1/25/2018 1:03 PM, Mariatta Wijaya wrote: One idea is maybe have a bot to do the squash commit, for example by commenting on GitHub: @merge-bot merge So core devs can do the above instead

Re: [Python-Dev] GH-NNNN vs #NNNN in merge commit

On 1/25/2018 4:34 PM, Berker Peksağ wrote: On Fri, Jan 26, 2018 at 12:09 AM, Terry Reedy wrote: On 1/25/2018 1:53 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: I would assume it would just go into miss-islington, but before we get ahead of ourselves and design this we need to get consensus that people like the

Re: [Python-Dev] GH-NNNN vs #NNNN in merge commit

On 1/25/2018 7:47 PM, Mariatta Wijaya wrote: I think we're starting to deviate from the original topic here which is: please replace # with GH- when you click Squash & Merge button. I will try to remember to do this, although it seems pointless if most people do not. The idea of the mergebot

Re: [Python-Dev] GH-NNNN vs #NNNN in merge commit

On 1/25/2018 10:38 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: On Thu, 25 Jan 2018 at 17:33 Eric V. Smith <mailto:e...@trueblade.com>> wrote: On 1/25/2018 8:13 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 1/25/2018 7:47 PM, Mariatta Wijaya wrote: >> I think we're starting to deviate from

Re: [Python-Dev] Making "-j0" the default setting for the test suite?

On 1/28/2018 11:43 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: So why can't you just run "make test" if that's faster? Not a standard option on Windows ;-). On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 8:30 PM, Nick Coghlan > wrote: On my current system, "make test" runs in around 3 minutes, while

Re: [Python-Dev] Making "-j0" the default setting for the test suite?

On 1/28/2018 11:30 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: On my current system, "make test" runs in around 3 minutes, while "./python -m test" runs in around 16 minutes. And that's with "make test" actually running more tests (since it enables several of the "-u" options). Did you test with current 3.7.0a+, s

Re: [Python-Dev] Why is Python for Windows compiled with MSVC?

On 1/31/2018 10:04 AM, Oleg Sivokon wrote: Why did you choose to use non-free compiler, which also makes cross-compilation impossible? There wasn't really a reason not to choose MinGW as Python was ported to DOS years before the initial 1998 release of the mingw32 predecessor. There has be

Re: [Python-Dev] OS-X builds for 3.7.0

On 1/31/2018 6:23 PM, Chris Barker wrote: On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 4:20 AM, INADA Naoki > wrote: > Against the official CPython 3.6 (probably .3 or .4) release I see: > 1 that is 2.01x faster (python-startup, 24.6ms down to 12.2ms) > 5 that are >=1.5x,<1

[Python-Dev] Is object the most base type? (bpo-20285)

>>> object.__doc__ 'The most base type' I and several people on python-list thread "interactive help on the base object" (Dec 2013) thought this could be improved. On https://bugs.python.org/issue20285 and https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/4759 After some research, I believe the follow

Re: [Python-Dev] Is object the most base type? (bpo-20285)

On 2/2/2018 1:53 AM, Terry Reedy wrote: >>> object.__doc__ 'The most base type' I and several people on python-list thread "interactive help on the base object" (Dec   2013) thought this could be improved.  On https://bugs.python.org/issue20285 and https://github

Re: [Python-Dev] A minimal Python interpreter written in Python for experimenting with language changes

On 2/2/2018 7:01 PM, asrp asrp wrote: I don't know if this is the right place to post this. Please redirect as needed. This list is for development *of* cpython. Development *with* python in general belongs on python-list. -- Terry Jan Reedy ___

Re: [Python-Dev] Is 4.0 a major breaking changes release?

On 2/3/2018 5:50 PM, Zachary Ware wrote: On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 4:40 PM, Alex Walters wrote: I am still working on porting code from 2.x to 3.x. As of late on the lists I've seen comments about making somewhat major changes in 4.0 - now I'm concerned that I should pause my porting effort until

Re: [Python-Dev] Dataclasses and correct hashability

On 2/5/2018 2:28 AM, Glenn Linderman wrote: This is an interesting use case. I haven't got the internals knowledge to know just how just different mutable and immutable classes and objects are under the hood. I believe there is no internal difference. An object is immutable if there is not

[Python-Dev] Update tcl/tk to 8.6.latest on Windows?

3.7.0b1 Windows installer installs tcl/tk 8.6.6, which is a couple of years old. Same for Windows repository builds. I believe the MacOS installer shipped with something later. Can we update Windows to the current 8.6.8? -- Terry Jan Reedy ___ Py

Re: [Python-Dev] Update tcl/tk to 8.6.latest on Windows?

On 2/21/2018 5:22 AM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: 21.02.18 12:12, Terry Reedy пише: 3.7.0b1 Windows installer installs tcl/tk 8.6.6, which is a couple of years old.  Same for Windows repository builds.  I believe the MacOS installer shipped with something later.  Can we update Windows to the

Re: [Python-Dev] How is the GitHub workflow working for people?

On 2/20/2018 8:58 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: It's been a year and 10 days since we moved to GitHub, so I figured now is as good a time as any to ask people if they are generally happy with the workflow ***The nearly automatic backporting!!! A responsible human *should* check backport PRs, as it

Re: [Python-Dev] Backward incompatible change about docstring AST

On 2/27/2018 9:32 AM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: 27.02.18 15:37, INADA Naoki пише: Of course, this change was backward incompatible. Tools reading/writing docstring via AST will be broken by this change. For example, it broke PyFlakes, and PyFlakes solved it already. https://github.com/PyCQA/pyfla

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7 -- bugfix or security before EOL?

On 3/10/2018 4:59 PM, Michael Scott Cuthbert wrote: I notice on https://devguide.python.org that Python 3.5 is in “security” status with an EOL of 2020-09-13 but Python 2.7 is in “bugfix” and has a likely earlier EOL. There is no relation between the two, or between 2.7 and any other version.

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7 -- bugfix or security before EOL?

On 3/10/2018 8:54 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: Let's not play games with semantics. The way I see the situation for 2.7 is that EOL is January 1st, 2020, and there will be no updates, not even source-only security patches, after that date. Support (from the core devs, the PSF, and python.org

Re: [Python-Dev] Git hub : CLA Not Signed label

On 3/10/2018 9:58 PM, Anthony Flury via Python-Dev wrote: All, I submitted two Pull Requests last Sunday, only a few hours after I signed the CLA. When processed properly, a day to a week, usually, a * will appear after your name on any tracker (bpo) post. I understand why the 'Knights who

Re: [Python-Dev] Git hub : CLA Not Signed label

On 3/11/2018 3:34 AM, Matěj Cepl wrote: On 2018-03-11, 03:45 GMT, Terry Reedy wrote: When processed properly, a day to a week, usually, a * will appear after your name on any tracker (bpo) post. So, I got my start after the name, where is the list of maintainers of individual packages, so I

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7 -- bugfix or security before EOL?

On 3/14/2018 9:16 AM, Michael Scott Cuthbert wrote: I’m guessing my first message was unclear or able to be misunderstood in some part — I’m one of the frequent contributors to python3statement.org and have moved my own Python projects to Py3 only (the main one, m

Re: [Python-Dev] ttk.Treeview.insert() does not allow to insert item with iid=0

On 3/16/2018 6:54 AM, Игорь Яковченко wrote: This might fit python-list better, and may become a bugs.python.org issue, but I will answer now, having just investigated. I found a possible bug with ttk.Treeview widget. See below. I'm working on program that uses tkinter UI. I use ttk.Treevi

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 574 -- Pickle protocol 5 with out-of-band data

On 3/28/2018 9:15 PM, Nathaniel Smith wrote: There's obviously some tension here between pickle's use as a persistent storage format, and its use as a transient wire format. For the former, you definitely can't store code objects because there's no forwards- or backwards-compatibility guarantee

Re: [Python-Dev] Subtle difference between f-strings and str.format()

On 3/28/2018 11:27 AM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: The optimizer already changes semantic. Non-optimized "if a and True:" would call bool(a) twice, but optimized code calls it only once. Perhaps Ref 3.3.1 object.__bool__ entry, after " should return False or True.", should say something like "Sho

Re: [Python-Dev] Subtle difference between f-strings and str.format()

On 3/30/2018 6:29 AM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: 29.03.18 18:06, Terry Reedy пише: On 3/28/2018 11:27 AM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: The optimizer already changes semantic. Non-optimized "if a and True:" would call bool(a) twice, but optimized code calls it only once. Perhaps Ref 3.

Re: [Python-Dev] IDLE colorizer

On 4/1/2018 10:20 PM, Tim Peters wrote: [MRAB [ A thread on python-ideas is talking about the prefixes of string literals, and the regex used in IDLE. Line 25 of Lib\idlelib\colorizer.py is: stringprefix = r"(?i:\br|u|f|fr|rf|b|br|rb)?" which looks slightly wrong to me. This must be a

Re: [Python-Dev] gdb support could use some love

On 4/5/2018 5:47 AM, Skip Montanaro wrote: There are a bunch of open issues regarding gdb support including one with a PR in need of review for 3.6+. I rejected one (which assumed everyone now uses a python-aware gdb), commented on another (ceval.c-related name changes in several commands), an

Re: [Python-Dev] Basic test to validate win10 install?

On 4/16/2018 6:00 PM, Martin Gainty wrote: I was told the python -m test are for devs only to test "auxiliary functions" People say all sorts of nonsense. I don't know what 'auxiliary function' would mean in this context. The Windows installer optionally installs the tests so that users ca

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 572: Assignment Expressions

On 4/17/2018 3:46 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: Abstract This is a proposal for creating a way to assign to names within an expression. I started at -something as this is nice but not necessary. I migrated to +something for the specific, limited proposal you wrote above: expressions o

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 572: Assignment Expressions

On 4/17/2018 1:03 PM, Yury Selivanov wrote: Using inline assignments in "while" statements is neat, but how often do we use "while" statements? Beginners commonly write game and entry loops and commonly stumble over the need to write an infinite loop and a half. The evidence is on both pyth

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 572: Write vs Read, Understand and Control Flow

On 4/25/2018 6:10 AM, Steve Holden wrote: On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 4:56 AM, Tim Peters > wrote: [Tim] >> Binding expressions are debugger-friendly in that they _don't_ just >> vanish without a trace.  It's their purpose to _capture_ the values of >> th

Re: [Python-Dev] (name := expression) doesn't fit the narrative of PEP 20

On 4/25/2018 8:20 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 10:11 AM, Yury Selivanov wrote: Just yesterday this snippet was used on python-dev to show how great the new syntax is: my_func(arg, buffer=(buf := [None]*get_size()), size=len(buf)) What strikes me as awful about

Re: [Python-Dev] (name := expression) doesn't fit the narrative of PEP 20

On 4/26/2018 6:20 AM, Steve Holden wrote: On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 8:56 AM, Steven D'Aprano <mailto:st...@pearwood.info>> wrote: On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 03:31:13AM -0400, Terry Reedy wrote: > On 4/25/2018 8:20 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: > >On Thu, Apr 26,

Re: [Python-Dev] (name := expression) doesn't fit the narrative of PEP 20

On 4/26/2018 6:34 AM, Greg Ewing wrote: Antoine Pitrou wrote: Well, how do languages where assignment is an expression returning the assigned value make their REPLs work?  I'm sure they don't inflict that on their users, so it's certainly a solvable problem. I can't think of any such language

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 572: Why not := as standard assignment operator?

On 4/26/2018 11:38 AM, Gustavo Carneiro wrote: On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 11:13 PM, Martin Teichmann mailto:lkb.teichm...@gmail.com>> wrote: > when reading PEP 572 I actually liked it a lot - I think it's actually > a cool idea. I think it's actually that cool an idea that it should

Re: [Python-Dev] Every Release Can Be a Mini "Python 4000", Within Reason (was (name := expression) doesn't fit the narrative of PEP 20)

On 4/29/2018 11:51 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 10:45 AM, Eitan Adler > wrote: On 29 April 2018 at 01:34, Jeff Allen mailto:ja...@farowl.co.uk>> wrote: > On 27/04/2018 08:38, Greg Ewing wrote: > I speculate this all goes back to so

Re: [Python-Dev] Every Release Can Be a Mini "Python 4000", Within Reason (was (name := expression) doesn't fit the narrative of PEP 20)

On 4/30/2018 4:00 PM, Jeff Allen wrote: They were not "statements", but "formulas" while '=' was assignment (sec 8) *and* comparison (sec 10B). So conversely to our worry, they actually wanted users to think of assignment initially as a mathematical formula (page 2) in order to exploit the sim

Re: [Python-Dev] bpo-33257: seeking advice & approval on the course of action

On 5/2/2018 4:38 PM, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev wrote: The bottom line is: Tkinter is currently broken This is way over-stated. Many modules have bugs, somethings in features more central to their main purpose. -- as in, it's not thread-safe (in both Py2 and Py3) Meaning that tkinter ca

Re: [Python-Dev] Drop/deprecate Tkinter?

On 5/2/2018 4:51 PM, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev wrote: As https://bugs.python.org/issue33257 As I report there, the 'crasher' does not crash on my Win 10 with either installed 3.7 or built 3.8. https://bugs.python.org/issue33316 showed, nothing about tkinter Tkinter is broken, for both

Re: [Python-Dev] Drop/deprecate Tkinter?

On 5/2/2018 6:01 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On Wed, 2 May 2018 22:54:04 +0100 Paul Moore wrote: His *other* email seems reasonable, and warrants a response, yes. But are we to take the suggestion made here (to drop tkinter) seriously, based on the fact that there's a (rare - at least it appear

Re: [Python-Dev] Python startup time

On 5/2/2018 12:42 PM, Gregory Szorc wrote: I know this kinda/sorta exists with zipimporter. But zipimporter uses zlib (slow) and only allows .py/.pyc files. And I think some Python application distribution tools have also solved this problem. I'd *really* like to see a proper/robust solution i

Re: [Python-Dev] Dealing with tone in an email

On 5/3/2018 2:45 PM, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev wrote: Let me express things right from the horse's mouth. Ditto, as the only person who responded on the tracker before you posted here and the only person other that Guido to respond on the tracker since and the only person to collect data w

Re: [Python-Dev] Dealing with tone in an email

On 5/4/2018 11:43 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: I'm not defending Ivan's initial email. His tantrum *was* annoying, unreasonable, and unfair to those who do care about tkinter. Ivan's email was a disinformation troll intended to jump the attention queue of core developers. He is proud of its ap

Re: [Python-Dev] Dealing with tone in an email

On 5/4/2018 12:04 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: Thank you Steven! I'd like to use your email (nearly) verbatim to start off the discussion about civility we're going to have at the Language Summit. I won't be there but sounds like a good idea. I hope you consider that bad content as well as ba

Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

On 5/2/2018 5:11 AM, Victor Stinner wrote: As a follow-up to the "[Python-Dev] (Looking for) A Retrospective on the Move to Python 3" thread, I will like to clarify how a feature should be removed from Python. Would it be possible (and sensible) to use the 2to3 machinery to produce 36to37.py,

Re: [Python-Dev] Dealing with tone in an email

On 5/4/2018 10:07 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: Terry, please, to persist in attacking Ivan's past behaviour when he has not repeated it is not open, considerate or respectful. I did not do that. My first sentence was background for a *discussion* about a partial disagreement with what you said

Re: [Python-Dev] Process to remove a Python feature

On 5/4/2018 6:18 PM, Victor Stinner wrote: 2018-05-04 23:59 GMT+02:00 Terry Reedy : Would it be possible (and sensible) to use the 2to3 machinery to produce 36to37.py, etc., to do mechanical replacements when possible and flag other things when necessary? I suggest you to watch Daniele

Re: [Python-Dev] A fast startup patch (was: Python startup time)

On 5/5/2018 2:33 PM, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: On Sat, May 5, 2018, 10:40 AM Eric Fahlgren > wrote: On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 10:30 AM, Toshio Kuratomi mailto:a.bad...@gmail.com>>wrote: On Fri, May 4, 2018, 7:00 PM Nathaniel Smith mailto:n...@pobox.com>>

Re: [Python-Dev] Dealing with tone in an email

On 5/5/2018 9:45 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 11:39 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: On Sun, May 06, 2018 at 11:09:21AM +1000, Chris Angelico wrote: What exactly didn't work? I don't understand. https://bugs.python.org/issue33412 I've read it and I still don't fully under

Re: [Python-Dev] Use a queue in Tkinter (was: Dealing with tone in an email)

On 5/6/2018 8:51 AM, Stefan Krah wrote: Steven D'Aprano wrote: What exactly didn't work? I don't understand. https://bugs.python.org/issue33412 Isn't the standard solution to use a queue for updating the GUI? At least I didn't have any problems at all with my one TKinter app, I think the m

Re: [Python-Dev] Dealing with tone in an email

On 5/6/2018 10:03 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 6:54 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: Is it ALL of Tkinter that fails in threaded mode? No. It is non-threaded tcl that fails in threaded mode, along with tkinter's attempt to make non-thread tcl work anyway. There are at leas

Re: [Python-Dev] bpo-33257: seeking advice & approval on the course of action

On 5/14/2018 12:20 PM, Chris Barker via Python-Dev wrote: On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 8:21 PM, Terry Reedy <mailto:tjre...@udel.edu>> wrote: On 5/2/2018 4:38 PM, Ivan Pozdeev via Python-Dev wrote: The bottom line is: Tkinter is currently broken This is way over-stat

Re: [Python-Dev] What is the rationale behind source only releases?

On 5/16/2018 11:46 PM, Alex Walters wrote: This is actually the heart of the reason I asked the question. CI tools are fairly good now. If the CI tools could be used in such a way to make the building of binary artifacts less of a burden on the release managers, would there be interest in d

Re: [Python-Dev] please help triage VSTS failures

On 5/18/2018 4:13 PM, Steve Dower wrote: Close/reopen PR is the best way to trigger a rebuild right now. It may be the way to retrigger VSTS, but if one want to merge, and either of Travis or AppVeyor pass, tossing the success is a foolish thing to do. Either may fail on a rebuild. -- Te

Re: [Python-Dev] Reminder: Please elaborate commit messages

On 5/22/2018 8:37 AM, Andrew Svetlov wrote: Sorry for that. I thought that the bpo issue can be skipped because it is tests-only change, no asyncio code was affected. Will be more accurate next time. A new issue was not needed. Adding 'bpo-33531' would have been fine, automatically linking t

Re: [Python-Dev] Reminder: Please elaborate commit messages

On 5/22/2018 2:26 PM, Yury Selivanov wrote: On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 8:52 AM Victor Stinner wrote: Usually, I don't open a new bug to fix or enhance a test. So I wouldn't say that it's mandatory. It's really on a case by case basis. It seems like test_asyncio failures are a hot topic these d

Re: [Python-Dev] PySequence_Check but no __len__

On 6/22/2018 7:17 AM, Christian Tismer wrote: My problem is to find out how to deal with a class which has __getitem__ but no __len__. The documentation suggests that the length of a sequence can always be obtained by len(). https://docs.python.org/3/reference/datamodel.html It says that pla

Re: [Python-Dev] PySequence_Check but no __len__

On 6/22/2018 7:57 PM, Greg Ewing wrote: Terry Reedy wrote: I am surprised that a C-API function calls something a 'sequence' without it having __len__. It's a bit strange that PySequence_Check exists at all. The principle of duck typing would suggest that one should be c

Re: [Python-Dev] We now have C code coverage!

On 6/22/2018 6:21 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: Thanks to a PR from Ammar Askar we now run Python under lcov as part of the code coverage build. And thanks to codecov.io automatically merging code coverage reports we get a complete report of our coverage (the first results of whic

Re: [Python-Dev] We now have C code coverage!

On 6/22/2018 8:43 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: On 6/22/2018 6:21 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: Thanks to a PR from Ammar Askar we now run Python under lcov as part of the code coverage build. And thanks to codecov.io <http://codecov.io> automatically merging code coverage reports we get a complete

Re: [Python-Dev] About [].append == [].append

On 6/23/2018 4:54 AM, Serhiy Storchaka wrote: 23.06.18 10:27, Jeroen Demeyer пише: On 2018-06-23 03:50, Steven D'Aprano wrote: I think it is more important that builtin methods and Python methods behave the same. +1 This inconsistency is the *real* problem here. It's one little extra compli

Re: [Python-Dev] We now have C code coverage!

On 6/22/2018 9:40 PM, Nathaniel Smith wrote: On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 6:16 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: I discovered the answer to 2. by shift-clicking on a text_x file to see their coverage report for the file. The colors actually do reflect the test lines executed. codecov.io excludes gui tests

Re: [Python-Dev] We now have C code coverage!

On 6/23/2018 1:09 PM, Zachary Ware wrote: On Sat, Jun 23, 2018 at 11:31 AM, Terry Reedy wrote: I have suggested that, and before that, the same for buildbots. The reality is that tkinter, IDLE, or turtle could be disabled on *nix by regressions and the official testing would not notice. I&#

Re: [Python-Dev] We now have C code coverage!

On 6/23/2018 5:48 PM, Zachary Ware wrote: On Sat, Jun 23, 2018 at 2:20 PM, Terry Reedy wrote: Rechecking now, on Gentoo test_idle appears and passed on these 3.6 and 3.7 pages http://buildbot.python.org/all/#/builders/82/builds/414/steps/5/logs/stdio Neither Firefox nor Edge can find

Re: [Python-Dev] Informal educator feedback on PEP 572 (was Re: 2018 Python Language Summit coverage, last part)

On 6/24/2018 7:25 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: I'd wager that the people who might be most horrified about it the (b) scoping rule change would be people who feel strongly that the change to the comprehension scope rules in Python 3 is a big improvement, I might not be one of those 'most hor

Re: [Python-Dev] Informal educator feedback on PEP 572 (was Re: 2018 Python Language Summit coverage, last part)

On 6/25/2018 8:25 AM, Paul Moore wrote: On 25 June 2018 at 12:44, Nick Coghlan wrote: Unfortunately, I think the key rationale for (b) is that if you *don't* do something along those lines, then there's a different strange scoping discrepancy that arises between the non-comprehension forms of c

Re: [Python-Dev] Informal educator feedback on PEP 572 (was Re: 2018 Python Language Summit coverage, last part)

[\0 * \0 for \0 in iterable] with \1, \2, ... used as needed. (I am using the regex back-reference notation in a way similar to the use of str.format forward reference notation.) I will stop here for now, as it is 1:30 am for me. Terry On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 12:40 PM Terry Reedy &l

Re: [Python-Dev] Gcode path

On 5/18/2015 4:18 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: It's unlikely that anyone on this list can help you with this. It's a question you should ask of the ReplicatorG people, not the Python people... If that does not work, try stackoverflow, or possibly even python-list. This list is focused only on

Re: [Python-Dev] Automated testing of patches from bugs.python.org

On 5/19/2015 11:02 AM, Kushal Das wrote: Hi, With the help of CentOS project I am happy to announce an automated system [1] to test patches from bugs.python.org. This can be fully automated to test the patches whenever someone uploads a patch in the roundup, but for now it accepts IRC commands o

Re: [Python-Dev] Automated testing of patches from bugs.python.org

On 5/20/2015 3:44 AM, anatoly techtonik wrote: This was intended to add status for bugs.python.org, but the work on Roundup had stalled due to uncertainty and despair on how to handle utf-8 (internal to Roundup) vs unicode (internal to Jinja2) in this issue: http://issues.roundup-tracker.org/iss

[Python-Dev] 3.5 doc warnings

35\Doc\whatsnew\3.5.rst:686: ERROR: Unknown interpreted text role "module". 35\Doc\library\typing.rst:: WARNING: document isn't included in any toctree from building html docs just now -- Terry Jan Reedy ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.

Re: [Python-Dev] An yocto change proposal in logging module to simplify structured logs support

Please post your idea to the python-ideas list. -- Terry Jan Reedy ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-arc

Re: [Python-Dev] Preserving the definition order of class namespaces.

On 5/25/2015 3:40 PM, Eric Snow wrote: On Mon, May 25, 2015 at 1:33 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On Sat, 23 May 2015 20:14:56 -0700 Larry Hastings wrote: Yeah, I'm willing to grant the feature freeze exception, assuming he can find general approval from the community (and assuming he still has

Re: [Python-Dev] Preserving the definition order of class namespaces.

On 5/27/2015 4:16 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: I second that sentiment. But it strikes me that we're doing this because our release frequency is completely inadapted. If we had feature releases, say, every 6 or 9 months, the problem wouldn't really exist in the first place. How about a feature re

Re: [Python-Dev] Computed Goto dispatch for Python 2

On 5/27/2015 9:31 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: +1 from me, for basically the same reasons Guido gives: Python 2.7 is going to be with us for a long time, and this particular change shouldn't have any externally visible impacts at either an ABI or API level. Immediately after a release, giving the p

Re: [Python-Dev] Computed Goto dispatch for Python 2

On 5/28/2015 10:55 AM, Steve Dower wrote: And it would look like a 20MB+ file just for a simple 1KB Python script... For Windows at least, I'd prefer to have some app-style installer generation (e.g. http://pynsist.readthedocs.org/en/latest/) which, combined with the embeddable Python distro (n

Re: [Python-Dev] Single-file Python executables (was: Computed Goto dispatch for Python 2)

On 5/28/2015 12:44 PM, Donald Stufft wrote: I do think single-file executables are an important piece to Python's long-term competitiveness. I completely agree. I talk to a lot of people about packaging of things, and while I think there are some serious problems with huge parts of Go’s pack

Re: [Python-Dev] Single-file Python executables (was: Computed Goto dispatch for Python 2)

On 5/28/2015 4:29 PM, Paul Moore wrote: On 28 May 2015 at 20:47, Brett Cannon wrote: I think it's to have a single tool to do it for any platform, not to have the technical nuts and bolts be the same necessarily. I think it's also to figure out if there is anything the interpreter and/or stdlib

Re: [Python-Dev] Computed Goto dispatch for Python 2

On 5/31/2015 6:59 AM, Alexander Walters wrote: A better course of action would be to deprecate the non-portable version. Other than setting the PATH envvar, why do we need to continue even touching the system on install? It is highly annoying for those of us that maintain several installs of py

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3 migration status update across some key subcommunities (was Re: 2.7 is here until 2020, please don't call it a waste.)

On 5/31/2015 10:15 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: The education community started switching a while back - if you watch Carrie-Anne Philbin's PyCon UK 2014 keynote, one of her requests for the broader Python community was for everyone else to just catch up already in order to reduce student's confusion

[Python-Dev] Unicode 8.0 and 3.5

Unicode 8.0 was just released. Can we have unicodedata updated to match in 3.5? -- Terry Jan Reedy ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/opt

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 0420: Extent of implementation? Specifically Python 2?

On 6/19/2015 11:21 AM, triccare triccare wrote: Will this PEP be implemented in Python 2? "Version: 3.3" Enhancements are not backported And, more generally, is there a way to know the extent of implementation of any particular PEP? When a PEP is accepted, the version field should be upda

Re: [Python-Dev] Unicode 8.0 and 3.5

On 6/27/2015 4:57 PM, Benjamin Peterson wrote: On Thu, Jun 18, 2015, at 13:27, Terry Reedy wrote: Unicode 8.0 was just released. Can we have unicodedata updated to match in 3.5? 3.5 now has Unicode 8.0.0. Great. Does the release PEP or something else have instructions on how to do this

[Python-Dev] Should asyncio ignore KeyboardInterrupt?

Should the loop.run... methods of asyncio respect KeyboardInterrupt (^C)? Developer and user convenience and this paragraph in PEP "However, exceptions deriving only from BaseException are typically not caught, and will usually cause the program to terminate with a traceback. In some cases the

Re: [Python-Dev] Should asyncio ignore KeyboardInterrupt?

On 7/4/2015 4:06 PM, Andrew Svetlov wrote: I believe it's a bug #23057 http://bugs.python.org/issue23057 On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 10:58 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: It's possible, but AFAIK asyncio.sleep() has nothing in common with time.sleep() -- it's implemented as a timeout on select() or on

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue #15014 - SMTP AUTH initial-response (beta exception requested)

On 7/7/2015 1:52 PM, Barry Warsaw wrote: Larry and others, I'd like to bring your attention to issue #15014. This issue added arbitrary auth methods to smtplib, which is a good thing. Implicitly though, a regression was introduced w.r.t. RFC 4954's optional initial-response for the AUTH comman

Re: [Python-Dev] How far to go with user-friendliness

On 7/14/2015 8:39 AM, Nick Coghlan wrote: On 14 July 2015 at 22:06, Dima Tisnek wrote: Thus the question, how far should Python go to detect possible erroneous user behaviour? Granted it is in tests only, but why not detect assrte, sasert, saster and assrat? Drawing the line at only rejecti

Re: [Python-Dev] How far to go with user-friendliness

(?) Steven D'Aprano yes -1 Barry Warsaw yes -.5 (?) Ethan Furman yes -1 Terry Reedy yes -1 Looks like this thread was pretty evenly split between core devs and non-core devs. Looks like a definite major

Re: [Python-Dev] GetFinalPathNameByHandleW - what is the minimum windows version python-3.5 will support ?

On 7/19/2015 9:51 AM, Tim Golden wrote: On 19/07/2015 13:10, Vitaly Murashev wrote: I've just found out that that on Windows internal implementation of python35.dll in posixmodule.c uses winapi function GetFinalPathNameByHandleW By the way from MSDN: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/w

Re: [Python-Dev] Devguide - Add Communications Quick Start Section

On 7/21/2015 1:06 PM, Carol Willing wrote: I would like to add a "Communications Quick Start" section to the beginning of the Python Developer's Guide. I would rename 'Quick Start' to 'Quick Start: Code Development' and add 'Quick Start: Communications' (or maybe 'Q S: Community Interaction').

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 3.4.3 on RedHat 6.6 s390x make fails with: make: *** [sharedmods] Error 139

On 7/21/2015 6:20 PM, Vitale, Joseph wrote: Hello, Trying to install Python 3.4.3 on Red Hat 6.6 zLinux(s390x) but “make” fails and core dumps. Not using OpenSSL and did not configure for it. Questions about installing current Python should be directed to python-list. pydev is for develo

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 447 (type.__getdescriptor__)

On 7/22/2015 3:25 AM, Ronald Oussoren wrote: Hi, Another summer with another EuroPython, which means its time again to try to revive PEP 447… I’ve just pushes a minor update to the PEP and would like to get some feedback on this, arguably fairly esoteric, PEP. Yeh, a bit too esoteric for most

Re: [Python-Dev] Status on PEP-431 Timezones

On 7/27/2015 11:21 AM, MRAB wrote: Also, if you "add one year" to 29 February 2016, what date do you get? I believe the 'conventional' answer is 1 March 2017. That is also 1 Mar 2016 + 1 year. 1 March 2017 - 1 year would be 1 Mar 2016. Leap days get cheated. -- Terry Jan Reedy

Re: [Python-Dev] Status on PEP-431 Timezones

On 7/27/2015 3:09 AM, Tim Peters wrote: [Paul Moore ] As an example, consider an alarm clock. I want it to go off at 7am each morning. I'd feel completely justified in writing tomorrows_alarm = todays_alarm + timedelta(days=1). [Lennart Regebro ] That's a calendar operation made with a t

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