RE: Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
One more reason to believe that Irish are similar to Greeks... they try to maximise profit in all situations:-) Why do you think we invented Ouzo? (Which is the drink made out of the crap left when ALL other possible alcoholic drinks are made...) Ffibys My step-daughter brought a small bottle of ouzo back for me from holiday last year. I'd had a bad day and sat down with the bottle one friday night. Wasn't a happy chappy for a day or two after (well, my excuse is I don't drink much usually unless with Darren and I wasn't up to Ouzo) - it even made me stay off the QL for a day or two, now that is BAD :o( Oh yeah...Blame me for your alcoholic ways when you're in Ireland... 8-)# I recall my first encounter with ouzo tooI drank an entire bottle at a greek night in my local pub (don't ask). Took a large fried breakfast the next day to sort me out, and I made friends with a large packet of alka-seltzer too. Darren. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 04:52:41 -0400, Darren Branagh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Oh yeah...Blame me for your alcoholic ways when you're in Ireland... 8-)# It's known the world over that our friend Darren is the root of ALL evil ;-) I recall my first encounter with ouzo tooI drank an entire bottle at a greek night in my local pub (don't ask). Took a large fried breakfast the next day to sort me out, and I made friends with a large packet of alka-seltzer too. Darren. Tsk tsk... foreigners... Ouzo should ALWAYS be consumed with extremely salty food and diluted with 3 parts water for each part ouzo (it is an aperitif after all) ;-) OR with Orange juice... a screwdriver of sorts (but with a blunt edge and crooked stem I guess ;-) ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
RE: Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
Oh yeah...Blame me for your alcoholic ways when you're in Ireland... 8-)# Who else is there to blame ;-) I recall my first encounter with ouzo tooI drank an entire bottle at a greek night in my local pub (don't ask). Took a large fried breakfast the next day to sort me out, and I made friends with a large packet of alka-seltzer too. Darren. Hmmm, fried breakfast after Guinness doesn't work. In fact, your stomach is usually OK after Guinness UNTIL you eat :-( Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
RE: Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
Hmmm, fried breakfast after Guinness doesn't work. In fact, your stomach is usually OK after Guinness UNTIL you eat :-( Hm Neither does coffee flavoured sausages... remember that? 6am I think at a services stop on the way to Bristol with Hilary O'Kelly. Darren. Yes! First and only time I heard Hilary o'Kelly swear I think. Good job it was coffee all over his sausages and not his QL as we were on the way to a QL show! How is Hilary these days? I haven't heard from him in ages. Is he still living in the castle in Laragh? Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
By experience of many years heavy drinking, always better to have the breakfast first then the alcohol. Never quite sure if drinking during breakfast is OK, but I always seem better with food in first then drink. That is only in the morning. Derek Dilwyn Jones wrote: Oh yeah...Blame me for your alcoholic ways when you're in Ireland... 8-)# Who else is there to blame ;-) I recall my first encounter with ouzo tooI drank an entire bottle at a greek night in my local pub (don't ask). Took a large fried breakfast the next day to sort me out, and I made friends with a large packet of alka-seltzer too. Darren. Hmmm, fried breakfast after Guinness doesn't work. In fact, your stomach is usually OK after Guinness UNTIL you eat :-( Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Darren Branagh [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Hilary is fine, and still in that HUGE Castle, all on his own. Still beavering away with his Gold Card QL - I call on him when I visit my parents. I think hes on email still - Hilaryokelly AT hotmail DOT com He has written some amazing QL programs, and I'm sick nagging him to write manuals for them and release them. He has a brilliant yachting simulator which is amazingly accurate (does all the calculations and he updated it regularly, you can go sailing anywhere fro your living room and all the beacons etc are correct) Not to mention some rather addictive puzzle games and stuff. He also wrote an enigma code machine emulator for the QL which is totally authentic - he even contacted Bletchley Park in the UK for info to get the coding right. Keep nagging him, Darren. We need interesting new applications to enliven the QL software scene. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 14:38:18 -0400, Malcolm Cadman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Darren Branagh [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Reminds me, I really must organise another Irish Show, maybe in Galway for a change. Would that be an Irish Show or a show held in Ireland ... :-) Who cares... if there's plenty of Guinness it won't make a difference anyway ;-) Ffibys What's the drink of choice in Galway, Darren - Guinness or Murphy's? Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
RE: Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 14:38:18 -0400, Malcolm Cadman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Darren Branagh [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Reminds me, I really must organise another Irish Show, maybe in Galway for a change. Would that be an Irish Show or a show held in Ireland ... :-) Who cares... if there's plenty of Guinness it won't make a difference anyway ;-) Ffibys What's the drink of choice in Galway, Darren - Guinness or Murphy's? Dilwyn Jones Knowing how tight Galwegians are, the one with the lowest price and maximum alcohol content!! :-)) Guinness is the mainstay everywhere but Munster - particularly Cork. Though Pints are *MUCH* cheaper here than in the east - amazing but true. Some pubs here charge 2.95 euro, up to 3.50 euro in others. In Dublin over 4 euro is commonplace noweven touching 5 euro in some hotels. DB. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 07:28:39 -0400, Darren Branagh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Knowing how tight Galwegians are, the one with the lowest price and maximum alcohol content!! :-)) See I told you in the past Darren that Irish and Greeks are not that all different ;-) heehee Guinness is the mainstay everywhere but Munster - particularly Cork. Though Pints are *MUCH* cheaper here than in the east - amazing but true. Some pubs here charge 2.95 euro, up to 3.50 euro in others. In Dublin over 4 euro is commonplace noweven touching 5 euro in some hotels. One more reason to believe that Irish are similar to Greeks... they try to maximise profit in all situations:-) Why do you think we invented Ouzo? (Which is the drink made out of the crap left when ALL other possible alcoholic drinks are made...) Ffibys ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], =?windows-1253?B?UGhvZWJ1cyBSLiBEb2tvcyAo1u/f4u/yINEuIM30/Orv8ik=?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 14:38:18 -0400, Malcolm Cadman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Darren Branagh [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Reminds me, I really must organise another Irish Show, maybe in Galway for a change. Would that be an Irish Show or a show held in Ireland ... :-) Who cares... if there's plenty of Guinness it won't make a difference anyway ;-) Well, haven't yet made it to one of Darren's Shows ... :-) -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
One more reason to believe that Irish are similar to Greeks... they try to maximise profit in all situations:-) Why do you think we invented Ouzo? (Which is the drink made out of the crap left when ALL other possible alcoholic drinks are made...) Ffibys My step-daughter brought a small bottle of ouzo back for me from holiday last year. I'd had a bad day and sat down with the bottle one friday night. Wasn't a happy chappy for a day or two after (well, my excuse is I don't drink much usually unless with Darren and I wasn't up to Ouzo) - it even made me stay off the QL for a day or two, now that is BAD :o( -- Dilwyn Jones -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.18 - Release Date: 19/04/2005 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
RE: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
Tony Wrote:- In the old days, QL work used to be my living, and a good one. For the last 6 years at least, I have stayed because I have made many good friends. I don't make money or even do it for free. It actually costs me money to stay with the QL. Tony I couldn't agree more. Although I've been quiet on the QL scene lately, due to moving house and having a baby (not personally, of course!) but up to a year or so ago, I was at most shows, even some of the US ones, and its something I plan to get back into more towards the end of this year. It typically cost me over 150 euro to visit a QL show, as it entails a ferry or airplane ticket, and accommodation and eating out, and that's if I can get a cheap air deal, and I try to stay with friends if possible. I haven't even covered myself financially at a show since probably QL2000. But the friendships are just sooo good. Which is why I enjoy doing the Irish show when I can, they are s much fun. You have Roy, who is so witty it hurts, Tonys massive technical knowledge on just about anything that has electricity running through it, and several other people that can really get a conversation going - I totally enjoy it all. Its quite amazing really, we are all of varying ages, backgrounds, and experiences, even nationalities with Jochen etc, yet we all gel together so well, not just on QL matters, but as friends - in fact we often don't talk about QL stuff much when we are out. The first Xmas cards I get each year are usually from the QL fraternity. Such a varied bunch - I always use the example where Myself, Roy, Tony, and Jim Hunkins walked (unknowingly at the time) into a gay bar in Montreal at the QL show there a few years ago. You had an age gap spanning 20+ years, Roy with his long rock star hair and flowery shirt, Tony in shorts and beard, Jim was tanned and in jeans - the poor barman was working overtime trying to figure out who the couples were! I also tried to teach the barman how to pull Guinness properly... but that's another story. Reminds me, I really must organise another Irish Show, maybe in Galway for a change. Sorry if people see this as off topic - tough. In my opinion, its what has this list and the people on it still here. It we traders didn't all get on, it would have all died years ago. Darren. -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Darren Branagh [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Reminds me, I really must organise another Irish Show, maybe in Galway for a change. Would that be an Irish Show or a show held in Ireland ... :-) -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
At 01:45 25/04/2005 +0100, you wrote: What market? Rather my point, is there any such thing beyond this QLique ? most in the band are fairly well furnished with software. This thread started with the suggestion of a DVD of related material as a product, what a horrendous thought to have to pan through 4Gig to find the nuggets of interest. A later idea was a WIN_ file on a stick, but what to put in it ? But I can see something on a stick that could indeed extend the market. It is quite a hassle to setup an Emulation package with all the relevant addon bits and pieces, some involving downloads that dont work, the special unzipping needed. Bad enough if you can remember from the distant past what to expect - but for a newcomer - daunting. I think it would surely be great to have a plugin QL to hand where ever one might be. Even there I see two distinct routes, emulation of the old black box, but with added speed and storage access, my personal preference. Or the multi-coloured, desktopped, lauchpadded QPC in imitation as much of Windows as possible. Pay peanuts, get monkeys. Surely by now there is negligible commerce in this arena, some programme for the intelectual challenge, a school or university project. If a project is successful and others appreciate the use of it therein llies much satisfaction. Quote : Gwilt - The more difficult a project appears to be the more it appeals to me. You, Per, don't convince me you have not solved someone else's problem with taking top payscale. Never done work for local community, or worked for a charity ? DT -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.3 - Release Date: 25/04/2005 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
David Tubbs writes: You, Per, don't convince me you have not solved someone else's problem with taking top payscale. Never done work for local community, or worked for a charity ? Im not sure I catch your drift, but Ive spent most of my working life in unwaged positions, in so-called ideal communities. If I didnt believe in what I do I would be a rather sad monkey. You either need to believe in what you do or get paid (lucky are those who have it both ways ;) Therefore I understand the nature of the contribution a number of people in the QL community make to keep it all ticking over and that is why it irkes me when people appear to rubbish those efforts. Sheer ignorance, of course. The way I see it, it works the other way round too: Either you contribute, or you pay. If for valid reasons you are not able to do either, you appreciate. Per ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
At 19:19 26/04/2005 +0100, you wrote: You, Per, don't convince me you have not solved someone else's problem with OUT taking top payscale. Never done work for local community, or worked for a charity ? Disklesia Roles Sorry Per -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.3 - Release Date: 25/04/2005 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 at 19:19:08, P Witte wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) David Tubbs writes: You, Per, don't convince me you have not solved someone else's problem with taking top payscale. Never done work for local community, or worked for a charity ? Im not sure I catch your drift, but Ive spent most of my working life in unwaged positions, in so-called ideal communities. If I didnt believe in what I do I would be a rather sad monkey. You either need to believe in what you do or get paid (lucky are those who have it both ways ;) Therefore I understand the nature of the contribution a number of people in the QL community make to keep it all ticking over and that is why it irkes me when people appear to rubbish those efforts. Sheer ignorance, of course. The way I see it, it works the other way round too: Either you contribute, or you pay. If for valid reasons you are not able to do either, you appreciate. In the old days, QL work used to be my living, and a good one. For the last 6 years at least, I have stayed because I have made many good friends. I don't make money or even do it for free. It actually costs me money to stay with the QL. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
RE: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
Hi all, esp. John, I have still to get definitive pricing on the USB drives, but this would hinge greatly on how many we would potentially order. Ideally, 100 or more would yield the best price, but then again we have to make sure we can sell then on quickly, as the prices change very quickly on items like this. Suffice to say I can get 64Mb ones for about a fiver, but that's today and may not be tomorrow. These are now obsolete and we have existing stock only - 128Mb is now the smallest we do, with 4Gb being the biggest. We had 32Mb ones last week, don't now completely sold out. I'm pretty sure I can get the best prices, as they are made by us, and therefore we are getting 'direct from manufacturer' prices, plus I am staff, so can order at cost price. The savings ain't gonna be huge as we are talking about margins of 3-7% on stuff in here anyway, but a saving it will be. Basically, it entails getting a concrete OK from QUANTA to buy some. Then we will need somebody or somebodies to write a front end, and copy the data to them (at USB speeds, this is a very quick procedure). So, what we need is some quanta money, and someone to write the software to drive the thing - a certain Welshman would be ideal... (Hint hint) but far be it from me to volunteer him!! :-)) I propose we get 64Mb ones if any at all, but we'd need to move fast as 128Mb is the way we are moving now, and these are about 8 pounds ish... This could then be split into say, a 40Mb QXL.WIN, and then some 24Mb for some PC files outside it (zip files, or the QL manual in word.doc format of whatever). Copies of the emulators inc. QPC2 demo etc would be essential, and a little INTRO.DOC file giving some QL background and info on the programs. Darren. -Original Message- From: John Gilpin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 25 April 2005 00:41 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product. - Original Message - From: Just about everbody who monitors the user list About 10 days or so ago, Darren Branagh asked a quite straight forward question about the possibility of there being a market for a DVD containing an emulator and heaps of QL Software with a purpose written front end etc. This idea was extended to 32Mb and 64Mb USB Flash Drives with a similar package. Since then this topic has become so distorted that it seems to me now to have been downgraded to a general slanging match over who said what in emails or what was the purpose of links in workshop flyers etc. After over 140 emails bearing this subject heading, can we please get back to the original topic? Carry on with the other one if you must, but is it getting anywhere? And if so can someone change the subject line so that those of us who are fed up of this exchange can ignore whatever there is still to come. I for one am very interested in what Darren was suggesting and would be willing to place any firm suggestions or business plan before the Quanta Committee if financial support was needed. Anyone else want to know what Darren has (had) in mind? Regards, John Gilpin. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
- Original Message - From: Jeremy Taffel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 2:02 AM Subject: Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product. Roy wood wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jeremy Taffel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes SNIP My position is quite simple really. I use computers for soving engineering problems, and find myself using windows (98,XP, 2000), Linux, Solaris., but the OS is less important to me than the tools. I used to use the QL a lot, and found that I could work similarly to PVWAVE ( a very expensive unix application that I use at work) and that SuperBasic + Turbo.+ lots of maths, signal and image proceesing extensions approximated the same working environment. So I'd prototype the code at home on the QL. play with some ideas and once they had gelled do it for real at work using an approved tool. However, I hit various limits (speed, graphics resolution, turbo restrictions) and eventually (about 12 years ago) stopped using the QL for anything serious, and now when I do use it its to look through my old programs to remind myself how I did something. I no longer use the native hardware, so its uQLx (until I upgraded Linux, and now it doesn't work), and QLAY Jeremy Try Turbo v4g21 when it goes on the site sometime this week. If it still needs up grading George will listen. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
Basically, it entails getting a concrete OK from QUANTA to buy some. Then we will need somebody or somebodies to write a front end, and copy the data to them (at USB speeds, this is a very quick procedure). So, what we need is some quanta money, and someone to write the software to drive the thing - a certain Welshman would be ideal... (Hint hint) but far be it from me to volunteer him!! :-)) Assuming you mean me not Hitchies or John Hall, for example, you can volunteer me all you like, you'll be waiting a long time, I'm struggling with my own programs at the moment. I'd help as part of a team and contribute ideas and suggestions for programs to include, but wouldn't have time to write real code for a front end. Plus, if you intend to put free emulators on, you'll need someone who knows QLay and/or uQLx. I propose we get 64Mb ones if any at all, but we'd need to move fast as 128Mb is the way we are moving now, and these are about 8 pounds ish... This could then be split into say, a 40Mb QXL.WIN, and then some 24Mb for some PC files outside it (zip files, or the QL manual in word.doc format of whatever). Copies of the emulators inc. QPC2 demo etc would be essential, and a little INTRO.DOC file giving some QL background and info on the programs. The 64MB ones will be cheaper and may not sell as fast as the larger memory ones. Do you intend to fill it with programs, or leave, say, half of the space for users to use? If you are seeking help with finance from Quanta I'd guess they'd want a say in what type to use and whether to put Quanta library stuff in there. I'd suggest you probably consider adverts from traders on there too, not necessarily paid for but say a text file from each trader with info on how they may be contacted, what sorts of things they sell and so on. -- Dilwyn Jones -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.18 - Release Date: 19/04/2005 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
I'm on Tony's mailshot, or so I thought, but I never saw it! :-( You are. His announcement was on the JMS .gif image linked to from the emailshot. Thanks Tony, makes one wonder if that is read at all... maybe we should, if it is a show invitation, just put the show and the date in...? Jochen ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
SMSQ - Jochen Merz wrote: I'm on Tony's mailshot, or so I thought, but I never saw it! :-( You are. His announcement was on the JMS .gif image linked to from the emailshot. Thanks Tony, makes one wonder if that is read at all... maybe we should, if it is a show invitation, just put the show and the date in...? Jochen ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm It's quite likely that the email client stripped the .gif image out. Jeremy ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 at 09:44:43, SMSQ - Jochen Merz wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) I'm on Tony's mailshot, or so I thought, but I never saw it! :-( You are. His announcement was on the JMS .gif image linked to from the emailshot. Thanks Tony, makes one wonder if that is read at all... maybe we should, if it is a show invitation, just put the show and the date in...? ... better expand the text to give such details. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
- Original Message - From: Jeremy Taffel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 12:27 PM Subject: Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product. SMSQ - Jochen Merz wrote: I'm on Tony's mailshot, or so I thought, but I never saw it! :-( You are. His announcement was on the JMS .gif image linked to from the emailshot. Thanks Tony, makes one wonder if that is read at all... maybe we should, if it is a show invitation, just put the show and the date in...? Jochen ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm It's quite likely that the email client stripped the .gif image out. Neither did I! Put things in plain text if you want things to be read!! Too many worms are installed by clicking on links. Use Text only and no HTML, if you really want things to be read!! Cheers Colin ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 at 12:27:52, Jeremy Taffel wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) His announcement was on the JMS .gif image linked to from the emailshot. It's quite likely that the email client stripped the .gif image out. It was not attached - it was simply a link. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
At 12:51 24/04/2005 +0100, you wrote: It was not attached - it was simply a link. Tony -- A link is only as good as the authoring ! JMS from your site leads to a blind alley. Godfroy from JMS is Forbidden and has been for months ! DT -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.2 - Release Date: 21/04/2005 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
Jochen Merz writes: I'm on Tony's mailshot, or so I thought, but I never saw it! :-( You are. His announcement was on the JMS .gif image linked to from the emailshot. Thanks Tony, makes one wonder if that is read at all... maybe we should, if it is a show invitation, just put the show and the date in...? I must admit I missed the ads too. Being on a dial-up connection I dont normally click on email links, as by the time I see them Im already off-line. The mailshot seemed to indicate that a text version of the ads where available further down, so I only looked at those: Traders ads - see bottom of email for text. TF Services: http://firshman.co.uk/mailing/tfs.jpg Just Words http://firshman.co.uk/mailing/jwhove.gif Qbranch http://www.qbranch.demon.co.uk/showflyer.htm Jochen Merz Software http://firshman.co.uk/mailing/JMS.gif RWAP Software http://firshman.co.uk/mailing/rwap.jpg See what I mean? Very sloppy reading on my part not to see the .gif and .jpg endings, but there you are; I may not have been the only one. Im glad we cleared this one up. Now there is a chance of doing something about it. Per ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
At 02:02 23/04/2005 +0100,Jeremy Taffel wrote: Roy, I don't know why you have to take such an aggressive stance. It is his way, always got time to dish a superfluous diatribe. But when I recently furnished him with information he had asked for it was not even acknowledged nor a relevant enquiry answered. DT -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.2 - Release Date: 21/04/2005 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 at 12:51:50, COLIN PARSONS wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Neither did I! Put things in plain text if you want things to be read!! Too many worms are installed by clicking on links. On spam yes. What makes you think that my emails (and QL traders) are going to do that sort of thing? Use Text only and no HTML, if you really want things to be read!! It was text only. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 at 13:23:02, David Tubbs wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) At 12:51 24/04/2005 +0100, you wrote: It was not attached - it was simply a link. Tony -- A link is only as good as the authoring ! JMS from your site leads to a blind alley. It doesn't - tried it just now. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
Neither did I! Put things in plain text if you want things to be read!! Too many worms are installed by clicking on links. On spam yes. What makes you think that my emails (and QL traders) are going to do that sort of thing? Use Text only and no HTML, if you really want things to be read!! It was text only. Then a link would't work! Colin ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
At 14:11 24/04/2005 +0100, you wrote: JMS from your site leads to a blind alley. It doesn't - tried it just now. Tony Same as before, Jochen has given another address for the QL relevant site. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.2 - Release Date: 21/04/2005 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 at 14:17:25, David Tubbs wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) At 14:11 24/04/2005 +0100, you wrote: JMS from your site leads to a blind alley. It doesn't - tried it just now. Tony Same as before, Jochen has given another address for the QL relevant site. I give the correct link. All Jochen does is then link (from his top page) to German and English versions. Where is this blind alley you talk about? Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
At 14:23 24/04/2005 +0100, you wrote: Where is this blind alley you talk about? Tony Very simply that site has NO QPC or SMSQ material. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.2 - Release Date: 21/04/2005 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
The link *always* was and still is http://smsq.j-m-s.com No www! Jochen Jeremy Taffel wrote: David Tubbs wrote: At 14:11 24/04/2005 +0100, you wrote: JMS from your site leads to a blind alley. It doesn't - tried it just now. Tony Same as before, Jochen has given another address for the QL relevant site. It sends to you to his shareware site - no sign of anything QL related there Jeremy ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
Neither did I! Put things in plain text if you want things to be read!! Too many worms are installed by clicking on links. Use Text only and no HTML, if you really want things to be read!! It *WAS* text only. And putting all the contents into the main email is not really helpful either - if emails get too long, nobody reads them :-( And if we put too much text in, other receivers may complain for receiving too much text. Sorry, but impossible to please everybody. Jochen ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
SMSQ - Jochen Merz wrote: The link *always* was and still is http://smsq.j-m-s.com Ah. That's better. At Last !!! Jeremy No www! Jochen Jeremy Taffel wrote: David Tubbs wrote: At 14:11 24/04/2005 +0100, you wrote: JMS from your site leads to a blind alley. It doesn't - tried it just now. Tony Same as before, Jochen has given another address for the QL relevant site. It sends to you to his shareware site - no sign of anything QL related there Jeremy ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
Hi Jeremy, Tis true! I use thunderbird. It allows you to inspect thesource; and it is plain text. However under normal display it converts text strings that start with http: into a URL. Similarly, it converts all the and at the start of the line into pretty formatted coloured sidebars. There really is no reason why anyone should need to send email in html. However, the main point is, that unless the body of the text in an email tells me why I'm supposed to click on a link, then I'm unlikely to. I receive too many to follow random links without knowing why. Something as simple as Follow this link for Jochen Mertz' special offers would probably have done the trick. It has a header trader's ads ... not go to trader's website (Maybe you should put this in capitals only, double-underline it, Tony) isn't this explaining enough what the links are? And Roy's link even says showflyer. Honestly, if you need the explanation follow this link on a highlit hyperlink, you may as well ask for information to be added how to click on a hyperlink or general explanation what a link is... So what I am saying here is: whatever we do, we can't please everybody. It is always too much for some, too few information for others. But somehow I had the feeling that it was just about right for the majority. Obviously not, as you do not seem to be the only one who missed it. (Tony, how about putting please open this letter to see what's inside on the next real mailings' envelopes.) ;-) Cheers Jochen homepage: SMSQ.J-M-S.COM not www! ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
Hooray!!! And to help for the future, I've added a proper signature from now on :-) Jochen Jeremy Taffel wrote: SMSQ - Jochen Merz wrote: The link *always* was and still is http://smsq.j-m-s.com Ah. That's better. At Last !!! Jeremy No www! Jochen Jeremy Taffel wrote: David Tubbs wrote: At 14:11 24/04/2005 +0100, you wrote: JMS from your site leads to a blind alley. It doesn't - tried it just now. Tony Same as before, Jochen has given another address for the QL relevant site. It sends to you to his shareware site - no sign of anything QL related there Jeremy ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm -- Jochen Merz Software - Kaiser-Wilhelm-Str. 302 - D-47169 Duisburg Tel. +49-(0)203-502011 Fax +49-(0)203-502012 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage: http://SMSQ.J-M-S.COM ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
At 09:29 24/04/2005 +0100, you wrote: Also worth noting Hardly, it being so out of date ! that the starter pack offer (234 Euros worth Shall we say priced at rather than worth. The authors think it should be higher whilst the market seems to suggest otherwise. of software for 99.90 Euros) was advertised in the snailshot flier for Byfleet, -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.2 - Release Date: 21/04/2005 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], David Tubbs [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes At 02:02 23/04/2005 +0100,Jeremy Taffel wrote: Roy, I don't know why you have to take such an aggressive stance. It is his way, always got time to dish a superfluous diatribe. But when I recently furnished him with information he had asked for it was not even acknowledged nor a relevant enquiry answered. I thought we had a brief and acrimonious exchange and some of the information was wrong. I must admit I did misread part of it to start with but some of the statements you made were not right. -- Roy Wood Q Branch. 20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex.BN41 2LB Tel: +44 (0) 1273 386030fax: +44 (0) 1273 430501 skype : royqbranch web : www.qbranch.demon.co.uk ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 at 16:01:56, Jeremy Taffel wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) However, the main point is, that unless the body of the text in an email tells me why I'm supposed to click on a link, then I'm unlikely to. I receive too many to follow random links without knowing why. Something as simple as Follow this link for Jochen Mertz' special offers would probably have done the trick. I will be pedantic in the next mailing (8-)# Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 at 09:38:54, =?windows-1253?B?UGhvZWJ1cyBSLiBEb2tvcyAo1u/f4u/yINEuIM30/Orv8ik=?= wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 09:16:00 -0400, COLIN PARSONS [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Neither did I! Put things in plain text if you want things to be read!! Too many worms are installed by clicking on links. On spam yes. What makes you think that my emails (and QL traders) are going to do that sort of thing? Use Text only and no HTML, if you really want things to be read!! It was text only. Then a link would't work! It would if the text is written in the proper way. We had that discussion here years ago (Tony made me revisit the RFC and of course he was right)... Most mailers will render sentences beginning with http://...; to a link (but only the first line if the link is too long as to be word- wrapped) You mean, of course, short enough NOT to be word-wrapped, and all the links I use are. and ALL mailers will display a link if the text has been written enclosed into a URL: construct So all mailers will make a link out of this: URL: http://blablah and some mailers will even do URL: http://blahblah, but not all... :-) Yes indeed. I remember the exchange well. Unfortunately damned MS Outback does not know how to handle this construct. Ben (my son) keeps complaining when I send him such links. Because of this, I changed the emailshot to include both. That looked too confusing so I reverted to unadorned. Jochen, Jeremy - I will make it clear that these links should be followed in the next emailshot. I hope even Colin will not see them as worm links (8-)# He is quite right about the danger of following links in spam emails. It is very easy to obscure the real destination. On one spam, the link looked OK. Of course I would not follow it, but looking at the raw text (yes it was html) the hidden link in the href was linking to the attached file. I am afraid I even junk the xmas cards from QL people - Basil Lee was a master at sending these. He sent .jpg attachments with no text. I rejected this. He was, it seems, quite annoyed. Nothing I said could convince him that it was -very- easy for worm/virus writers to hijack address books. In any case, what is the point of electronic cards? One cannot successfully print them, and the -whole- point of Xmas cards is to clutter the living room. However rest assured that worm writers could never devise a QL emailshot (8-)# Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 at 17:15:58, David Tubbs wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) At 17:01 24/04/2005 +0200, you wrote: It *WAS* text only. By definition a gif is not plain text It was a text link to a .gif. I also don't have any attachments. The email was plain text (for the third time)! Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 at 14:43:09, David Tubbs wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) At 14:23 24/04/2005 +0100, you wrote: Where is this blind alley you talk about? Tony Very simply that site has NO QPC or SMSQ material. You are dead right. Jochen - you should restore the link to the actual QL site http://smsq.j-m-s.com/ from http://j-m-s.com/ This latter one always used to link to a QL site - at least when I started my website. David - I have altered my website. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jeremy Taffel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Malcolm Cadman wrote: clip Jeremy, with all your computer interests I am sure that you will find it even more fun now than the period that you are recalling. Yes, there is a cost involved for the commercial programs, yet there are also lots of free software and tools too. To get involved in the new things you will need SMSQ/E rather than QDOS, which is £32. Then you have options to build on that as you wish. Remember you can still use QDOS as well, so the QDOS 'past' is not lost to you. QPAC2 Pointer Environment - mouse pointer, menus, file handler, etc, is £42 I have the pointer environment. But its very old - I bought it from Care Electronics when they had a shop in Watford; perhaps in 1988. I'm not sure that it was sold as QPAC2 though. Files include hot_rext, ptr_gen, wman, hotkey, ramprt Would it still work under SMSQ/E, or would I need to upgrade? Yes, that is the one. It may be in need of an upgrade though. QPC2 is £65 to start, yet then the upgrades seem to come along frequently and are mostly free. QLAY and QEmulator are alternatives as free emulators. Can you run SMSQ/E under them? I don't know whether either of them run on QDOS or can run with SMSQ/E. I am not a user of either, no doubt someone else will have the answer ... clip Good luck with what whatever you choose to do. I am sure that you will get inspired, and maybe even write some new software yourself ? I did write a few non-work related programs; all in superbasic. One that displayed random words in a random colour from a user-definable vocabulary against a contrasting background. One that used the same vocabulary to construct grammatically correct (but often nonsensical) random sentences; building it up one word at a time until the sentence is complete, then wiping the screen for the next sentence. Bilingual versions of the word programme English followed by Hebrew, English only, or Hebrew only. I also did an arithmetic tester which included a multiplication table tester. It meant that when my kids started school they were about 3 years ahead of the class in reading and arithmetic. I had two additional projects that I never completed;. A bridge playing program that used true AI, and a hebrew word processor. Perhaps one day I'll find the time to complete them Well, as they say, the world is 'your oyster' ... with programming. With SBASIC a compiler is useful, of which there are 2 - Turbo which has been further developed, and Qliberator. They give programs a bit more speed, and protect the source code from being seen by others. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jeremy Taffel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Tony Firshman wrote: I repeat - my emails are text only. If there is html there, that is added by your mailer. Nothing to do with me. Tony Tis true! I use thunderbird. It allows you to inspect thesource; and it is plain text. However under normal display it converts text strings that start with http: into a URL. Similarly, it converts all the and at the start of the line into pretty formatted coloured sidebars. There really is no reason why anyone should need to send email in html. Ah ... that again :-) It is the default behaviour in Outlook Express to send both a text and HTML file, unless you actually find the setting for text only. I get lots of people who work in local government sending email like that. Usually either because they just don't know, or they are not allowed access to change any settings. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], gwicks [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes - Original Message - From: Tony Firshman To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 8:15 PM Subject: Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product. On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 at 00:53:37, Jeremy Taffel wrote: His announcement was on the JMS .gif image linked to from the emailshot. Also worth noting that the starter pack offer (234 Euros worth of software for 99.90 Euros) was advertised in the snailshot flier for Byfleet, Just to be clear ... will this starter pack still be valid for the forthcoming Byfleet show in September 2005 ? -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
At 19:55 24/04/2005 +0200, you wrote: Sorry All current SMSQ/E stuff is on smsq.j-m-s.com, and that's the official SMSQ homepage, and always was. No point in pointing to an outdated ad somewhere. then try this one Jochen Forbidden You don't have permission to access /~godefroy/english on this server. Apache/1.3.27 Server at www.imaginet.fr Port 80 .. wherever it may have been (I thought you had a copy of it on your server and pointed to it anyway with your link). Jochen -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.2 - Release Date: 21/04/2005 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 14:32:58 -0400, David Tubbs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 19:55 24/04/2005 +0200, you wrote: Sorry All current SMSQ/E stuff is on smsq.j-m-s.com, and that's the official SMSQ homepage, and always was. No point in pointing to an outdated ad somewhere. then try this one Jochen Forbidden You don't have permission to access /~godefroy/english on this server. Apache/1.3.27 Server at www.imaginet.fr Port 80 That is correct. That address has ceased to be for a long time now. The correct addresses are: URL:http://thgodef.nerim.net/qdos/english/index.html and URL:http://qdos.dyns.net/ Cheers, Ffibys ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
Hi David, then try this one Jochen Forbidden You don't have permission to access /~godefroy/english on this server. Apache/1.3.27 Server at www.imaginet.fr Port 80 Well, it seems that the link to Thierry's website is broken, (will remove it, unless somebody has a working, but ... what has this to do with links to MY ad from QL 2004's mailshot last year? (at least that was the subject of the last 30+ emails or so). If anybody has a working link to Thierry's site, please mail it to me. Jochen -- Jochen Merz Software - Kaiser-Wilhelm-Str. 302 - D-47169 Duisburg Tel. +49-(0)203-502011 Fax +49-(0)203-502012 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage: http://SMSQ.J-M-S.COM ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
At 20:51 24/04/2005 +0200, Jochen wrote: Well, it seems that the link to Thierry's website is broken, (will remove it, unless somebody has a working, but ... what has this to do with links to MY ad from QL 2004's mailshot last year? (at least that was the subject of the last 30+ emails or so). I have already pointed out the fatuity of the SUBJECT, I demurred to effect a change. Earlier I raised the point of both those ineffective links, the choice of yourself and Tony to ignore the Godfory one. If anybody has a working link to Thierry's site, please mail it to me. =?windows-1253?B?UGhvZWJ1cyBSLiBEb2tvcyAo1u/f4u/yINEuIM30/Orv8ik=?= has provided. DT -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.2 - Release Date: 21/04/2005 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
Malcolm Cadman wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jeremy Taffel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Tony Firshman wrote: I repeat - my emails are text only. If there is html there, that is added by your mailer. Nothing to do with me. Tony Tis true! I use thunderbird. It allows you to inspect thesource; and it is plain text. However under normal display it converts text strings that start with http: into a URL. Similarly, it converts all the and at the start of the line into pretty formatted coloured sidebars. There really is no reason why anyone should need to send email in html. Ah ... that again :-) It is the default behaviour in Outlook Express to send both a text and HTML file, unless you actually find the setting for text only. I get lots of people who work in local government sending email like that. Usually either because they just don't know, or they are not allowed access to change any settings. I don't work in local government, just the UKs largest defence contractor. All the IT is outsourced. The contract specifies the levels of support received. It also has the conflicitng requirements of standardising profiles, despite the fact that some of us use laptops, and others don't. Net result, no-one can customise Windows to his needs. Every time I log on, for example, the calculator has reverted to the simple form, despite the fact that I always need the scientific functions. AND, email defaults to html, even tho we are only allowed to send each other plain text! If I'm going to need to run an application other than office, (mathcad, for example) when out of the office, I have to start the program at work , to grab a licence off the server, and then put it into suspend, because no-one is allowed his own licence. Everything runs so slowly because almost all the files come over the network, instead of being stored on the local hard drive, and although I work in Stevenage, I can't fill in my timesheet if a server in Maidstone goes down! I still do most of my serious computing from home! Jeremy ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 at 21:04:33, SMSQ - Jochen Merz wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Not an ad. This is the link to you on my website. When I started it (in 1996 I think) j-m-s.com -was- your QL link surely. Surely??? No, impossible. I did not own a website in 1996. My first emails date back Dec, 1997. My first website was brought up in 1998, because I remember I got Frontpage 98 (original!) from my provider when I opened the website there, and had j-m-s.com registered through them. ... then 1998? It certainly worked for the QL when I first put it there. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 at 20:16:36, Jeremy Taffel wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) ess to change any settings. I don't work in local government, just the UKs largest defence contractor. All the IT is outsourced. The contract specifies the levels of support received. It also has the conflicitng requirements of standardising profiles, despite the fact that some of us use laptops, and others don't. Net result, no-one can customise Windows to his needs. Every time I log on, for example, the calculator has reverted to the simple form, despite the fact that I always need the scientific functions. AND, email defaults to html, even tho we are only allowed to send each other plain text! If I'm going to need to run an application other than office, (mathcad, for example) when out of the office, I have to start the program at work , to grab a licence off the server, and then put it into suspend, because no-one is allowed his own licence. Everything runs so slowly because almost all the files come over the network, instead of being stored on the local hard drive, and although I work in Stevenage, I can't fill in my timesheet if a server in Maidstone goes down! I still do most of my serious computing from home! I hope the same principal does not apply at time of war - sorry defence (8-)# Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
Malcolm Cadman wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jeremy Taffel writes Malcolm Cadman wrote: I have the pointer environment. But its very old - I bought it from Care Electronics when they had a shop in Watford; perhaps in 1988. I'm not sure that it was sold as QPAC2 though. Files include hot_rext, ptr_gen, wman, hotkey, ramprt Would it still work under SMSQ/E, or would I need to upgrade? Yes, that is the one. It may be in need of an upgrade though. I have QPAC2 with QTOP, which had Thor compatibility software, however there are no emulators that support the Thors. I like the idea of Minerva, QDOS, ARGOS compatibility addons for the Q60 / SMSQ/E. The Thor 21-16 design had an 68030+6888x (68882 is pin compatible with 68881 and faster) piggybacked on the 68008 main processor, could this be done to SGC cards, temperately? QPC2 is £65 to start, yet then the upgrades seem to come along frequently and are mostly free. QLAY and QEmulator are alternatives as free emulators. Can you run SMSQ/E under them? I don't know whether either of them run on QDOS or can run with SMSQ/E. I am not a user of either, no doubt someone else will have the answer ... QLAY emulates the original Sinclair QL Hardware so cannot run SMSQ/E, but will run the latest version of Minerva (1.98) which under the GPL, at http://www.dilwyn.uk6.net/qlrom/index.html ,while QLAY is at http://web.inter.nl.net/hcc/A.Jaw.Venema/ -- Tarquin Mills (Chairman) ACCUS (Anglia Classic Computer Users Society) http://www.speccyverse.me.uk/comp/accus/ http://www.PetitionOnline.com/Spectrum/ (We want a Spectrum +4) ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
- Original Message - From: Just about everbody who monitors the user list About 10 days or so ago, Darren Branagh asked a quite straight forward question about the possibility of there being a market for a DVD containing an emulator and heaps of QL Software with a purpose written front end etc. This idea was extended to 32Mb and 64Mb USB Flash Drives with a similar package. Since then this topic has become so distorted that it seems to me now to have been downgraded to a general slanging match over who said what in emails or what was the purpose of links in workshop flyers etc. After over 140 emails bearing this subject heading, can we please get back to the original topic? Carry on with the other one if you must, but is it getting anywhere? And if so can someone change the subject line so that those of us who are fed up of this exchange can ignore whatever there is still to come. I for one am very interested in what Darren was suggesting and would be willing to place any firm suggestions or business plan before the Quanta Committee if financial support was needed. Anyone else want to know what Darren has (had) in mind? Regards, John Gilpin. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
David Tubbs writes: that the starter pack offer (234 Euros worth Shall we say priced at rather than worth. The authors think it should be higher whilst the market seems to suggest otherwise. What market? Pay peanuts, get monkeys. Per ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
- Original Message - From: Dilwyn Jones To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 12:01 PM Subject: Re: Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product. - it actually looked more like runny mascara than anything else so I hope wasn't being wound up about it all! Watch it, Dilwyn. Any more remarks like that and I will hit you with my handbag! ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jeremy Taffel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes SNIP I don't know why you have to take such an aggressive stance. Why do you have problems? I was not complaining about the cost, nor requesting a price reduction, merely offering the constructive suggestion that if the market appears to have reached saturation, a new market might open up if the price is reduced. I seem to have sparked off quite a lively debate, so it was a worthwhile exercise, but it turns out that my suggestion had been tried already without, apparently much success. I wasn't complaining that I missed the promotion, merely curious to discover where I should look for such offerings. It must be admitted that although I visit Marcel's site quite often, I don't visit Jochen's, and no I don't subscribe to QL Today, but that is hardly a crime is it? I was not being aggressive I was just pointing out the way it seems to the people who put a lot of time and effort into keeping the QL scene going. The very fact that people are on this list shows they have an interest but so few of them contribute in an other way. I suppose after a couple of weeks of sitting at the computer writing two articles for the current edition of QL Today, checking and preparing the new EASYPTR release with Marcel, setting how much sweat and effort Jochen puts into getting the magazine out on time, seeing how much Marcel puts into QPC2, QPCPrint and the EASYPTR update and getting a QL show ready I was just peeved that people seemed to think all this was not really worth a few pounds or any real support from them. Maybe you were, somewhat unjustly, on the receiving end of that. SNIP And now for another suggestion The QPC2 demo on Marcel's site hardly shows the system off to its best potential.. The presentation of the screen that results from the boot file on the .win file that is included for download is awful, and could have been from qdos. There really isn't anything to help the uninitiated to know whatto do with it, and it does not seem to have changed since I first looked at QPC1. This surely is not the way to showcase the system. The justwords demo does that much better, as do the screenshots from QDT that I've seen. How about a demo that properly showcases the programme? (expecting another flame from Roy telling me how much work I'm asking someone to do for free ;-) ) No you won't get it just a suggestion that you do one and then give it to us to put on the site (tee hee). Of course you won't be able to save it in the demo but you could write the boot file using QLAY and then test it on the demo. - or even get SMSQ/E for your Gold card ! -- Roy Wood Q Branch. 20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex.BN41 2LB Tel: +44 (0) 1273 386030fax: +44 (0) 1273 430501 skype : royqbranch web : www.qbranch.demon.co.uk ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
Roy wood wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jeremy Taffel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes SNIP I don't know why you have to take such an aggressive stance. Why do you have problems? I was not complaining about the cost, nor requesting a price reduction, merely offering the constructive suggestion that if the market appears to have reached saturation, a new market might open up if the price is reduced. I seem to have sparked off quite a lively debate, so it was a worthwhile exercise, but it turns out that my suggestion had been tried already without, apparently much success. I wasn't complaining that I missed the promotion, merely curious to discover where I should look for such offerings. It must be admitted that although I visit Marcel's site quite often, I don't visit Jochen's, and no I don't subscribe to QL Today, but that is hardly a crime is it? I was not being aggressive I was just pointing out the way it seems to the people who put a lot of time and effort into keeping the QL scene going. The very fact that people are on this list shows they have an interest but so few of them contribute in an other way. I suppose after a couple of weeks of sitting at the computer writing two articles for the current edition of QL Today, checking and preparing the new EASYPTR release with Marcel, setting how much sweat and effort Jochen puts into getting the magazine out on time, seeing how much Marcel puts into QPC2, QPCPrint and the EASYPTR update and getting a QL show ready I was just peeved that people seemed to think all this was not really worth a few pounds or any real support from them. Maybe you were, somewhat unjustly, on the receiving end of that. SNIP Apology accepted. I don't take it personally, because you often come over as being a bit on the aggresive side. For anyone who reads this list regularly, its just a part of your personality. However, it is a bit uncomfortable to be on the receiving end. And now for another suggestion The QPC2 demo on Marcel's site hardly shows the system off to its best potential.. The presentation of the screen that results from the boot file on the .win file that is included for download is awful, and could have been from qdos. There really isn't anything to help the uninitiated to know whatto do with it, and it does not seem to have changed since I first looked at QPC1. This surely is not the way to showcase the system. The justwords demo does that much better, as do the screenshots from QDT that I've seen. How about a demo that properly showcases the programme? (expecting another flame from Roy telling me how much work I'm asking someone to do for free ;-) ) No you won't get it just a suggestion that you do one and then give it to us to put on the site (tee hee). Of course you won't be able to save it in the demo but you could write the boot file using QLAY and then test it on the demo. - or even get SMSQ/E for your Gold card ! I know that response was meant as a jest, but I was being perfectly serious.Surely, if you are interested in selling a product, its up to you to show what it can do. If you leave it to the prospective buyer to try to work it out for himself you will end up losing sales. As I have never used SMSQ/E, I think I should be the LAST person to write a demo to show off its capabilities. Anyway, your suggestion is unworkable. Firstly, as I said, I no longer own any native QL hardware (that includes Gold card). Secondly, I'm not sure how I use QLAY to write anything that uses the SMSQ/E features that QDOS lacks. Perhaps you could enlighten me there? Even if that wasn't the case, there would be the learning curve to go through to find out how to use the high colour etc. All of which requires manuals etc. Jeremy ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
Jeremy said - / And now for another suggestion The QPC2 demo on Marcel's site hardly shows the system off to its best potential.. The presentation of the screen that results from the boot file on the .win file that is included for download is awful, and could have been from qdos. There really isn't anything to help the uninitiated to know whatto do with it, and.../ === I must say that I have had this same thought many many times - but it usually arrives coupled to another Jeremy thought i.e. ... how much work I'm asking someone to do for free ;-) ).. Best wishes to all, John in Wales -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.13 - Release Date: 16/04/2005 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jeremy Taffel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes SNIP I know that response was meant as a jest, but I was being perfectly serious.Surely, if you are interested in selling a product, its up to you to show what it can do. If you leave it to the prospective buyer to try to work it out for himself you will end up losing sales. As I have never used SMSQ/E, I think I should be the LAST person to write a demo to show off its capabilities. Anyway, your suggestion is unworkable. Firstly, as I said, I no longer own any native QL hardware (that includes Gold card). Secondly, I'm not sure how I use QLAY to write anything that uses the SMSQ/E features that QDOS lacks. Perhaps you could enlighten me there? Even if that wasn't the case, there would be the learning curve to go through to find out how to use the high colour etc. All of which requires manuals etc. Yes it was. Although I had not realised that you wanted it to demonstrate the colour drivers too. The problem is that it is hard to do anything that really demonstrates it all given that there are some aspects which remain commercial property and cannot be released on demos. Most of the program demos need MENU_REXT loaded and that is a commercial release. You may wonder why this is but the answer is that it is programmable from BASIC and sold as such. The user would have to have a disk with the menu extensions on it and then he could load those but this would then mean it would have to be a QL User (and an up to date one) and that does not give a demo to the uninitiated. Perhaps the answer would be to sell the demo for the price of the menu extensions. If the user is happy with the demo he can then return his receipt and get that money back when he buys the full thing. This would mean two demos. One with the full QXL.WIN demo on it that is paid for and another, without them, which is free. How does that sound? -- Roy Wood Q Branch. 20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex.BN41 2LB Tel: +44 (0) 1273 386030fax: +44 (0) 1273 430501 skype : royqbranch web : www.qbranch.demon.co.uk ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 at 00:53:37, Jeremy Taffel wrote: (ref: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) SMSQ - Jochen Merz wrote: We cut QPC as a special offer to 49 EUR last year (this is about 33 pounds - the price region you talk about) ... did we get hundreds and thousands of sales? No! Where did you advertise this? I didn't know about it. It was sent out by email to the newsgroups, advertised by TF's mailshot, placed on my website AND we spent a lot of money sending out some hundred real letters ... together with advertising QL 2004. That was one of the largest and most expensive mailings for the last 2 or 3 years, and the result was as described ... :-( Jochen ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm I'm on Tony's mailshot, or so I thought, but I never saw it! :-( You are. His announcement was on the JMS .gif image linked to from the emailshot. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:252/67) +44(0)1442-828255 tony@surname.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jeremy Taffel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes My position is quite simple really. I use computers for soving engineering problems, and find myself using windows (98,XP, 2000), Linux, Solaris., but the OS is less important to me than the tools. clip So, to answer your question, I haven't put anything in for the past 12 years, clip So, I'm stuck in the QDOS past, and am curious as to whether all the enhancements overcome the limitations that I ran into back then. No doubt if I were to buy QPC2, it would be rapidly followed by QDT, as I'd need a decent desktop; But, I've got so many projects on the go, QPC2 really isn't my highest priority. clip Jeremy, with all your computer interests I am sure that you will find it even more fun now than the period that you are recalling. Yes, there is a cost involved for the commercial programs, yet there are also lots of free software and tools too. To get involved in the new things you will need SMSQ/E rather than QDOS, which is £32. Then you have options to build on that as you wish. Remember you can still use QDOS as well, so the QDOS 'past' is not lost to you. QPAC2 Pointer Environment - mouse pointer, menus, file handler, etc, is £42. QPC2 is £65 to start, yet then the upgrades seem to come along frequently and are mostly free. QLAY and QEmulator are alternatives as free emulators. If you get really enthused than you will be into QDT which is £32. Roy Wood is giving a £10 discount on SMSQ/E if you buy both QDT and SMSQ/E at present. Good luck with what whatever you choose to do. I am sure that you will get inspired, and maybe even write some new software yourself ? -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
David Tubbs wrote: At 00:18 22/04/2005 +0100, you wrote: Roy wood wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jeremy Taffel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes SMSQ - Jochen Merz wrote: We cut QPC as a special offer to 49 EUR last year (this is about 33 pounds - the price region you talk about) ... did we get hundreds and thousands of sales? No! Where did you advertise this? I didn't know about it. Jeremy Probably in QL Today. Do you subscribe to that? No __ Ich glaube es ist ausgekauft, Ich kann es nicht sehen bei http://www.j-m-s.de/index_e.htm Nein, es war ein Sonderangebot, um zu sehen ob es Kunden interessiert. Die SMSQ-Homepage ist smsq.j-m-s.com Jochen (no, it was a special offer to check if it draws customer's attention) ;-) The SMSQ homepage is smsq.j-m-s.com, by the way ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
We cut QPC as a special offer to 49 EUR last year (this is about 33 pounds - the price region you talk about) ... did we get hundreds and thousands of sales? No! Where did you advertise this? I didn't know about it. It was sent out by email to the newsgroups, advertised by TF's mailshot, placed on my website AND we spent a lot of money sending out some hundred real letters ... together with advertising QL 2004. That was one of the largest and most expensive mailings for the last 2 or 3 years, and the result was as described ... :-( Jochen ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
Ich glaube es ist ausgekauft, Ich kann es nicht sehen bei http://www.j-m-s.de/index_e.htm ... und natürlich http://qpc.j-m-s.com Jochen ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
One technique is to get an 0870 (national number) at 7p a minutes and 1p or 2p of the call charge is given to you, this is like the system that free ISPs use and if I had the money for a second line for a QL ISP I would use. The Phone Coop (http://www.thephone.coop) used to offer this service for free, I do not know if they still do. Don't forget to add the 1-2 minute recorded announcement about 'please listen to the following options carefully .. calls may be recorded for training and' followed by the options in a complex manner and 'to 'repeat these options key 9' by that time you have spent a bit. And then you get 'all of our operators are busy. Your call is important to us (but not important enough to actually employ anyone to answer it) so please hold the line until an operator becomes available (or until we have made enough to retire)' -- Roy Wood I worked for a company called Patientline for a while. They had a system similar to this. In their case, ripping off customers and sheer greedy profit was NOT the motive, but it was seen by customers as such and people used to go ballistic with us front line staff about it. People were paying up to 50p a minute for making calls to patients in hospital and the call started with a long announcement plus if you didn't know the number to get through to the patient's bed you had to go through announcement plus wait until able to speak to operators. Presumably it all mounted up. There are sometimes legal announcements you have to make - in these cases, these premium rate numbers should start free until the end of announcements and recorded music until you actually get through to a person. In terms of making money - good idea. In terms of upsetting your customers, not a good idea. It all adds to the Rip-off-Britain impressions we have. Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
Users that confuse the both need a quick lecture that's all... That was my point Marcel, Jochen and I choose to sell it. They know the price. Try arguing with the man at the petrol pump on a slack day or the supermarket checkout at night by saying - there are not many people buying why not halve the price. What a stupid remark to say Roy. You will never get someone with the authority to do anything remotely approaching that on a till nowadays. And anyway there's always half the tills needed at any given time so there aren't any slack times (sarcasm aimed at modern businesses not at Roy). You'll probably get a free black eye from a p***ed off bored spotty teenager to match Geoff Wicks's through trying it and nothing else. Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
So whats wrong with the demo version of QPC2? You can check out most of the new facilities and run most new programs. Enough to satisfy curiosity, I should think. No, not really, not without being able to save config files etc. A reminder here that there are programs like my own Launchpad out there which write frequently to disk as part of any norml usage - change anything in Launchpad, it immediately writes out new configuration files which of course gets stopped by QPC2 demo. (just a reminder and not getting at anyone in particular since someone asked me about Launchpad not running on QPC2 lately and it turned out it was the demo version of QPC2 not allowing saving after about 2 days of fruitless bug hunting). Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
On the other hand, while the money will never, ever compensate for the time or energy, it does show me that people respect the work and are interested in it. If no one was willing to pay what I consider to be a very underpriced cost for QDT, I would read it as no one appreciated the work being done. Therefore, it would not happen and further development would definitely not happen. You have to be careful - if people perceive one program as costing more than the operating system it runs on they may not understand the reasons. Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
Am Fri, 22 Apr 2005 8:41:22 + hat Dilwyn Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] geschrieben: It all adds to the Rip-off-Britain impressions we have. You could replace Britain by every EG-country, I'm afraid :-( The latest trick I had to undergo with the German Postbank two days ago. After the usual announcements and advertising a very friendly male voice asked me whether I wanted more advertising or information about just another bullshit. As I didn't want either of them I waited for another statement or something like press 1 ...9 on your telefone but nothing happened. Then I began to rail a bit and the voice said. I'm sorry but I can't understand what you said. and began to repeat everything from the very first start. You can imagine that my railing did not get friendlier. Only when (after repeating this unproductive dialogue for a while) I stopped to say anything, then, after quite a while, the voice said, Because I cannot understand what you are sayin I will connect you with an assistent Which was, what I had wanted all the time! More than three minutes connected, before even being able to say what I want, a really good deal for the company %-(#?^ß*! Wolfgang ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
COLIN PARSONS writes: So whats wrong with the demo version of QPC2? You can check out most of the new facilities and run most new programs. Enough to satisfy curiosity, I should think. You can't save any work. Hardly the way to encourage any new programmer to the platform!! Its perfectly possible to write programs which you can test on the demo - only you have to write them on another platform and put them into a .WIN container. The moment you talk of saving your work I suppose you are, strictly speaking, no longer in demo mode.. Per ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
Jeremy Taffel writes: So whats wrong with the demo version of QPC2? You can check out most of the new facilities and run most new programs. Enough to satisfy curiosity, I should think. No, not really, not without being able to save config files etc. Ok, so if you had to solve the problem of producing a demo that would satisfy curiosity, but was limited in some way that would compell the thus satisfied punter to buy the product rather than just continuing to use the demo, what would you suggest? Selling previous versions at a discount doesnt really help as it would become a logistical nightmare for programmers to support what would in effect be new platforms. I don't understand. What new platforms? Surely support is still provided for the previous versions; even if only yes that's a known problem, its fixed in the upgrade Would you buy the buggy version, even if it were £20 less? The fix is usually to get the latest version. There are also limits to how much backward compatibility people who write free or negative-profit software are prepared to strive for. My own stuff will usually not run on an earlier version of the OS than the one it was designed on although, hopefully, it will run on all subsequent versions. Per ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
Dilwyn Jones wrote: You'll probably get a free black eye from a p***ed off bored spotty teenager to match Geoff Wicks's through trying it and nothing else. I did not know the Quanta chairmanship fight was actual ;-), seriously I am sad to hear someone has hit Geoff and hope he is alright. -- Tarquin Mills (Chairman) ACCUS (Anglia Classic Computer Users Society) http://www.speccyverse.me.uk/comp/accus/ http://www.PetitionOnline.com/Spectrum/ (We want a Spectrum +4) ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
P Witte wrote: Id go one better: The place to start, of course, is to make the Qx0 designs public and free so other people can develop and improve them, and in some cases, build their own. A free computer to run free software on. Just the thing. The obstacle is production. If I publish software, it automatically exists, if I publish hardware it does not. Every single piece of hardware must be built (in series production if it's going to be affordable) and at the complexity and massive costs of the Qx0, this means commercial production. Unfortunately one can't materialize mainboards by a uploading to a website or burning a CD. Peter ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
You'll probably get a free black eye from a p***ed off bored spotty teenager to match Geoff Wicks's through trying it and nothing else. I did not know the Quanta chairmanship fight was actual ;-), seriously I am sad to hear someone has hit Geoff and hope he is alright. I don't know what actually happened though judging how much joking and bantering there was about it I doubt it was anything bad like fighting or anything like that at all. I didn't know about it until Tony Firshman showed me the photo and suggested a caption competition or something with Geoff stood right behind him - it actually looked more like runny mascara than anything else so I hope wasn't being wound up about it all! Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
On Apr 22, 2005, at 4:55 AM, Dilwyn Jones wrote: On the other hand, while the money will never, ever compensate for the time or energy, it does show me that people respect the work and are interested in it. If no one was willing to pay what I consider to be a very underpriced cost for QDT, I would read it as no one appreciated the work being done. Therefore, it would not happen and further development would definitely not happen. You have to be careful - if people perceive one program as costing more than the operating system it runs on they may not understand the reasons. I would be happy to raise the price of QDT if that would make anyone more comfortable :) Actually, am considering this for later, simply because QDT is relatively very underpriced. But if I do, it will be pre-announced to allow anyone waiting to buy before it would happen. The pricing was initially set to encourage people to buy it and give it a go. However, in review against other QL modern software prices and further comparison to PC type software prices, it really does feel very underpriced to me. jim ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
Roy wood wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jeremy Taffel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes SNIP Where did you advertise this? I didn't know about it. Jeremy Probably in QL Today. Do you subscribe to that? No You see this is where I have a problem with all this. Here is someone who 'cannot justify the expense of buying QPC2' and probably cannot justify the expense of subscribing to QL Today and wants Marcel, Jochen and I to justify the expense of supplying him with cheap software. How does this work? What do you put in? Roy, I don't know why you have to take such an aggressive stance. Why do you have problems? I was not complaining about the cost, nor requesting a price reduction, merely offering the constructive suggestion that if the market appears to have reached saturation, a new market might open up if the price is reduced. I seem to have sparked off quite a lively debate, so it was a worthwhile exercise, but it turns out that my suggestion had been tried already without, apparently much success. I wasn't complaining that I missed the promotion, merely curious to discover where I should look for such offerings. It must be admitted that although I visit Marcel's site quite often, I don't visit Jochen's, and no I don't subscribe to QL Today, but that is hardly a crime is it? My position is quite simple really. I use computers for soving engineering problems, and find myself using windows (98,XP, 2000), Linux, Solaris., but the OS is less important to me than the tools. I used to use the QL a lot, and found that I could work similarly to PVWAVE ( a very expensive unix application that I use at work) and that SuperBasic + Turbo.+ lots of maths, signal and image proceesing extensions approximated the same working environment. So I'd prototype the code at home on the QL. play with some ideas and once they had gelled do it for real at work using an approved tool. However, I hit various limits (speed, graphics resolution, turbo restrictions) and eventually (about 12 years ago) stopped using the QL for anything serious, and now when I do use it its to look through my old programs to remind myself how I did something. I no longer use the native hardware, so its uQLx (until I upgraded Linux, and now it doesn't work), and QLAY So, to answer your question, I haven't put anything in for the past 12 years, but before then I spent more on QL software than I have since on PC software! ( psion chess, scrabble, bridge, metacomco C, fortran, qram, Hotkey II , qtype, perfection, turbo, qmaths, lightningSandy superqboard + disks, gold card.). I stopped buying the software when I stopped using it for anything much. I read this list to find out what's going on, and that's about it. So, I'm stuck in the QDOS past, and am curious as to whether all the enhancements overcome the limitations that I ran into back then. No doubt if I were to buy QPC2, it would be rapidly followed by QDT, as I'd need a decent desktop; But, I've got so many projects on the go, QPC2 really isn't my highest priority. So, I'm not saying that I want it for £30 or so, merely, that if it was priced in that region, I would buy it without even worrying about if I'd ever get around to using it in anger. Why does this give you a problem? And now for another suggestion The QPC2 demo on Marcel's site hardly shows the system off to its best potential.. The presentation of the screen that results from the boot file on the .win file that is included for download is awful, and could have been from qdos. There really isn't anything to help the uninitiated to know whatto do with it, and it does not seem to have changed since I first looked at QPC1. This surely is not the way to showcase the system. The justwords demo does that much better, as do the screenshots from QDT that I've seen. How about a demo that properly showcases the programme? (expecting another flame from Roy telling me how much work I'm asking someone to do for free ;-) ) Jeremy ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], James Hunkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes For myself, I started QDT as an interesting project. Plus I really enjoy the people involved in the community. To be honest, I would have abandoned the project quite a while ago if I was only doing it for the money. Probably before it even started. On the other hand, while the money will never, ever compensate for the time or energy, it does show me that people respect the work and are interested in it. If no one was willing to pay what I consider to be a very underpriced cost for QDT, I would read it as no one appreciated the work being done. Therefore, it would not happen and further development would definitely not happen. So, while the money isn't everything, obviously, it definitely is something. Knowing the effort that goes into different QL software projects, I don't know of any that I would consider not to be fare value. And most are very good deals already. I am an 'early adopter' of QDT, and although it is still at its early stages of implementation, it does show what excellence can now be achieved with all the new developments for the QL. Note : QDT does not run on 'older' systems, as it is designed to make use of the best that is currently available. I now hope that Jim's work will encourage software writers to flex their muscles again and produce all those interesting applications that we all need. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Roy wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], David Tubbs [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes SNIP Would you buy the buggy version, even if it were £20 less? The fix is usually to get the latest version. So someone was happy to sell Buggy versions for top dollar ! No software of any complexity is without bugs. QPC2's bugs are usually fixed before any get sold and those that slip through are fixed very quickly with free updates. Older versions are not buggy as suggested - just not as refined and developed as the current ones. Some newer programs require keywords that have been especially built into SMSQ/E to make them work. QPC2 and SMSQ/E are inter-linked and some versions will not work with the wrong SMSQ/E file. The whole thing is a continuous line of sustained development and very hard to backtrack on. In the end the users benefit from this. Most upgrades are free and the ones which are charged for are major re-workings of the system. Much of this is not evident to the users except that it works better and does more things. Marcel does not even own a trumpet let alone blow it. Yes, this is all transparent to the user. As well as more features in the upgrades, the system and the emulator always get faster and slicker too ( which is an added 'hidden' bonus ). I made the plunge in buying SMSQ/E and then QPC some years ago now ... and I have had lots and lots of benefits from it. We have had this debate many many times ... there comes a time with any computer system when the user has to make a significant investment upgrade ... in either hardware or software. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
Peter Graf writes: Id go one better: The place to start, of course, is to make the Qx0 designs public and free so other people can develop and improve them, and in some cases, build their own. A free computer to run free software on. Just the thing. The obstacle is production. If I publish software, it automatically exists, if I publish hardware it does not. Every single piece of hardware must be built (in series production if it's going to be affordable) and at the complexity and massive costs of the Qx0, this means commercial production. Unfortunately one can't materialize mainboards by a uploading to a website or burning a CD. All that is pretty obvious, of course - and neatly side-steps the issue ;) Equally obvious to me, however, is that a /design/ is not a physical thing, but it is essential information to understand the physical thing; how it works, how it can be fixed if there is a problem, how to improve it, how to create addons and expansions, and how to build your own if you are that way inclined. (Presumably, even you had to build a few one-off prototypes to test your design before going to production.) Now, as an owner of a Q60 - a considerable investment, I would feel a lot happier if I knew the designs were available for many of the reasons mentioned above. You might not always be around, you might loose interest, or you might (heaven forbid!) decide to use the monopoly position you enjoy with your closed, proprietory architecture, to my disadvantage. Thered be precious little I could do about that. But luckily it need never come to that because, as you suggest, there is another way: You would make your designs and firmware open and make your profit on the added value thing! (I am assuming, of course, that you respect other people's intellectual property rights as you do your own, and would never expect others to do what you would not wish to do yourself.) Per ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
On the other hand, while the money will never, ever compensate for the time or energy, it does show me that people respect the work and are interested in it. If no one was willing to pay what I consider to be a very underpriced cost for QDT, I would read it as no one appreciated the work being done. Therefore, it would not happen and further development would definitely not happen. You have to be careful - if people perceive one program as costing more than the operating system it runs on they may not understand the reasons. How about Office, X3 times the cost of the OS! Cheers Colin ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jeremy Taffel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes SNIP Where did you advertise this? I didn't know about it. Jeremy Probably in QL Today. Do you subscribe to that? No You see this is where I have a problem with all this. Here is someone who 'cannot justify the expense of buying QPC2' and probably cannot justify the expense of subscribing to QL Today and wants Marcel, Jochen and I to justify the expense of supplying him with cheap software. How does this work? What do you put in? -- Roy Wood Q Branch. 20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex.BN41 2LB Tel: +44 (0) 1273 386030fax: +44 (0) 1273 430501 skype : royqbranch web : www.qbranch.demon.co.uk ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], David Tubbs [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes SNIP Would you buy the buggy version, even if it were £20 less? The fix is usually to get the latest version. So someone was happy to sell Buggy versions for top dollar ! No software of any complexity is without bugs. QPC2's bugs are usually fixed before any get sold and those that slip through are fixed very quickly with free updates. Older versions are not buggy as suggested - just not as refined and developed as the current ones. Some newer programs require keywords that have been especially built into SMSQ/E to make them work. QPC2 and SMSQ/E are inter-linked and some versions will not work with the wrong SMSQ/E file. The whole thing is a continuous line of sustained development and very hard to backtrack on. In the end the users benefit from this. Most upgrades are free and the ones which are charged for are major re-workings of the system. Much of this is not evident to the users except that it works better and does more things. Marcel does not even own a trumpet let alone blow it. -- Roy Wood Q Branch. 20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex.BN41 2LB Tel: +44 (0) 1273 386030fax: +44 (0) 1273 430501 skype : royqbranch web : www.qbranch.demon.co.uk ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
- Original Message - From: Tarquin Mills To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 11:48 AM Subject: Re: Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product. Dilwyn Jones wrote: You'll probably get a free black eye from a p***ed off bored spotty teenager to match Geoff Wicks's through trying it and nothing else. I did not know the Quanta chairmanship fight was actual ;-), seriously I am sad to hear someone has hit Geoff and hope he is alright. Actually I was viciously attacked by a kerbside in the vicinity of Gatwick Airport, and I still don't know how it happened. On my way back through London, I was stopped by someone on the tube who asked me what had happened. He added, I was a bit afraid to ask you, because I thought you might be a really hard type. Thus very good for my street cred! Best Wishes, Geoff ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], COLIN PARSONS [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Ok, so if you had to solve the problem of producing a demo that would satisfy curiosity, but was limited in some way that would compell the thus satisfied punter to buy the product rather than just continuing to use the demo, what would you suggest? A 30 day time limited version, as is normal in most share ware, degrading to your no save mode, after this time limit. QPC2 is not a normal PC program. It does not write to the registry, install hidden files, DLLs or any of that stuff. It is, in fact very QL! Making it time out so that those with short arms and long pockets don't just reinstall it again would be a major undertaking. You know that the save works. If you have the programs on another QL system you can configure them there and then transfer them. -- Roy Wood Q Branch. 20 Locks Hill, Portslade, Sussex.BN41 2LB Tel: +44 (0) 1273 386030fax: +44 (0) 1273 430501 skype : royqbranch web : www.qbranch.demon.co.uk ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
David Tubbs writes: Really Per, I am surprised at your response ! Ooops! Have I put my mouth where my foot should have been? No, not really, not without being able to save config files etc. Ok, so if you had to solve the problem of producing a demo that would satisfy curiosity, but was limited in some way that would compell the thus satisfied punter to buy the product rather than just continuing to use the demo, what would you suggest? Do you really suggest the potential customer provides the solution. Suggestion, not solution. Solutions in this matter are not my call. Surely support is still provided for the previous versions; even if only yes that's a known problem, its fixed in the upgrade Would you buy the buggy version, even if it were £20 less? The fix is usually to get the latest version. So someone was happy to sell Buggy versions for top dollar ! Yes, it all one big conspiracy to do us poor punters in ;) Per ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
SMSQ - Jochen Merz wrote: We cut QPC as a special offer to 49 EUR last year (this is about 33 pounds - the price region you talk about) ... did we get hundreds and thousands of sales? No! Where did you advertise this? I didn't know about it. It was sent out by email to the newsgroups, advertised by TF's mailshot, placed on my website AND we spent a lot of money sending out some hundred real letters ... together with advertising QL 2004. That was one of the largest and most expensive mailings for the last 2 or 3 years, and the result was as described ... :-( Jochen ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm I'm on Tony's mailshot, or so I thought, but I never saw it! :-( Jeremy ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
At 11:48 22/04/2005 +0100, you wrote: I did not know the Quanta chairmanship fight was actual ;-), Surely not so, I thought he was a cert for the job. Transformation from rebel to house-trained seemed complete. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.2 - Release Date: 21/04/2005 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
Dilwyn Jones writes: So whats wrong with the demo version of QPC2? You can check out most of the new facilities and run most new programs. Enough to satisfy curiosity, I should think. No, not really, not without being able to save config files etc. A reminder here that there are programs like my own Launchpad out there which write frequently to disk as part of any norml usage - change anything in Launchpad, it immediately writes out new configuration files which of course gets stopped by QPC2 demo. (just a reminder and not getting at anyone in particular since someone asked me about Launchpad not running on QPC2 lately and it turned out it was the demo version of QPC2 not allowing saving after about 2 days of fruitless bug hunting). Might be an idea to pre-configure all software to be able to run from a RAM disk out of the box. That way punters can try it out in a controlled environment, and QPC demo users wont be stuck. Per ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
The only way, taking a leaf from Linux, that it is going to increase it's market penetration is if it is freely available for download, under a GNU license. This is a bullet that has to be bitten, if there is to be any future for the platform! Very encouraging discussion ... how many new software products will people write for QDOS/SMSQ, being told they better give it away for free to stabilize their own future ...? Jochen ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
The only way, taking a leaf from Linux, that it is going to increase it's market penetration is if it is freely available for download, under a GNU license. This is a bullet that has to be bitten, if there is to be any future for the platform! Very encouraging discussion ... how many new software products will people write for QDOS/SMSQ, being told they better give it away for free to stabilize their own future ...? Taking an example from the Linux community again, a LOT, if they have any real belief in the future of the platform. How many work in the QL sector for real monetary gain, rather than love of the product? Cheers Colin ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
I really cannot imagine that a price of 45 pounds is unaffordable. One visit to a restaurant with your family is likely to be more expensive. Bad example if you live in the US ;-) hehe (You can feed 4 for about $20... mind you not a fancy restaurant but a lot of food nonetheless... how do you think I got to be SO Huge? :-P) You don't live in flaming Rip-Off-Britain do you? (Though that doesn't seem to have helped me lose weight). Yes but why shell another $100 for Windoze? It makes more sense to run QPC2 under WineX (as it requires DirectX or maybe compile it with SDL or something ;-) so that compatibility is ensured maybe even under FreeBSD/Linux?) There are such options available to those who know about them. The 'unknown' factor means people may be reluctant to try them, but the options are there. Regardless, the fact of the matter is that QPC2 is a great piece of software :-) Anyone who uses it regularly would agree with that as long as the proce is acceptable to them. At the end of the day it's choice...pay and get the best or use the (good) free options like QLay2 and uQLx and QDOS Classic. Dilwyn ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
COLIN PARSONS wrote: The only way, taking a leaf from Linux, that it is going to increase it's market penetration is if it is freely available for download, under a GNU license. This is a bullet that has to be bitten, if there is to be any future for the platform! One can make money with free software also, but by adding value instead of charging for the rigths over the binaries. Added value can be: - Distribution packages (Disk/CD/DVD) - Handbooks and documentation - Commercial support (e.g. for those who bought the package/docs) - Provide development for a donation (but the resulting code will be free) - A piece of hardware that uses the free software Nobody will gain a monopoly on such an added value, because the software itself remains free. Nevertheless successful business around free software has proven to work, especially in the embedded systems market. It requires flexibility though. Even in the QL scene, selling added value for free software is not impossible. E.g. the QDOS Classic/Q60 Linux CD sold well, although the software was free and one could have also downloaded the contained pieces at no charge. Also developers of free QL software have been given donations. Such ideas came too faint and too late for the QL probably. Peter ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
We're not competing with Linux or anything else - what we have is unique, thanks to many people. I'd say that EVERYBODY who puts time into QDOS/SMSQ does it because he likes it ... some do it for free, some don't, but isn't it up to them? This view fits in with what people tell me, that they like and use QDOS or SMSQ/E because it is is interesting and different. You can write your own programs and generally tinker with a computer at your leisure without it being the same old Windows you use every day at work. We do need to attract some new and/or ex users, and we are fortunate in having high end QPC2 and Q60 to choose from at one end of the QL scale and the free emulators at the other, with an excellent moderately priced high compatibility QDOS emulator in the middle of the proce scale. We all have our preferences as to QL systems, the point is there is a good choice which you don't always get in this kind of situation. Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
One can make money with free software also, but by adding value instead of charging for the rigths over the binaries. Added value can be: - Distribution packages (Disk/CD/DVD) - Handbooks and documentation - Commercial support (e.g. for those who bought the package/docs) - Provide development for a donation (but the resulting code will be free) - A piece of hardware that uses the free software Nobody will gain a monopoly on such an added value, because the software itself remains free. Nevertheless successful business around free software has proven to work, especially in the embedded systems market. It requires flexibility though. Even in the QL scene, selling added value for free software is not impossible. E.g. the QDOS Classic/Q60 Linux CD sold well, although the software was free and one could have also downloaded the contained pieces at no charge. Also developers of free QL software have been given donations. Such ideas came too faint and too late for the QL probably. Peter I don't always agree with what Peter says, but I think he makes his point well here. This is certainly food for thought. I know myself having put most of my older programs onto my website for free download, I still get people asking for copies on disk or CD or for minor updates for their own needs for which they are willing to pay modest amounts. I must admit, I'm seeing both sides of the viewpoints presented here today. It will be very interesting to see how this dicussion develops. Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
Dilwyn Jones writes: One can make money with free software also, but by adding value instead of charging for the rigths over the binaries. Added value can be: - Distribution packages (Disk/CD/DVD) - Handbooks and documentation - Commercial support (e.g. for those who bought the package/docs) - Provide development for a donation (but the resulting code will be free) - A piece of hardware that uses the free software Nobody will gain a monopoly on such an added value, because the software itself remains free. Nevertheless successful business around free software has proven to work, especially in the embedded systems market. It requires flexibility though. Even in the QL scene, selling added value for free software is not impossible. E.g. the QDOS Classic/Q60 Linux CD sold well, although the software was free and one could have also downloaded the contained pieces at no charge. Also developers of free QL software have been given donations. Such ideas came too faint and too late for the QL probably. Peter I don't always agree with what Peter says, but I think he makes his point well here. This is certainly food for thought. I know myself having put most of my older programs onto my website for free download, I still get people asking for copies on disk or CD or for minor updates for their own needs for which they are willing to pay modest amounts. I must admit, I'm seeing both sides of the viewpoints presented here today. It will be very interesting to see how this dicussion develops. Id go one better: The place to start, of course, is to make the Qx0 designs public and free so other people can develop and improve them, and in some cases, build their own. A free computer to run free software on. Just the thing. Per ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [ql-users] Just an idea for a new Product.....
- Original Message - From: P Witte [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jeremy Taffel writes: So, all I was saying is that I think that there could be a market beyond the one that seemingly (according to other emails) has reached saturation, and foolishly set myself up as a skinflint by offering myself as someone who fell into that market. I think it is perfectly valid to put the question although, of course, it is not our call to answer it. However, it doesnt appear to be the solution to the particular problem you pose: You wrote: As I said, I am only a casual user. If I needed it I could, of course afford it, but I don't. Any purchase would be purely out of curiosity, and once that had been satisfied I don't know whether I'd continue using it. So whats wrong with the demo version of QPC2? You can check out most of the new facilities and run most new programs. Enough to satisfy curiosity, I should think. You can't save any work. Hardly the way to encourage any new programmer to the platform!! Cheers Colin ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
