Re: [qubes-users] Qubes 3 MacOSX
On Sun, Oct 01, 2017 at 06:29:10AM -0700, nhe...@gmail.com wrote: > On Monday, October 31, 2016 at 4:39:40 AM UTC+8, Manuel Amador (Rudd-O) wrote: > > On 06/17/2016 04:11 AM, Drew White wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Sunday, 15 May 2016 14:05:50 UTC+10, Jeremy Rand wrote: > > > > > > FWIW, I think a legal argument could be made that such license > > > agreements are anti-competitive and therefore unenforceable. > > > However, > > > I am unaware of any specific precedent for this argument, so it would > > > indeed probably be unwise for ITL to violate the license agreement > > > unless their goal is to win the inevitable lawsuit and thus achieve a > > > beneficial precedent. (And while that would be laudable, I would > > > definitely not blame ITL if they decided that such activities are not > > > worth their effort or budget.) > > > > > > (And of course, I'm not a lawyer.) > > > > > > > > > Well, in the end, I own a mac, It's not breaking any agreement or > > > anything for me wanting to run it. > > > > Yeah you are. Check the licensing terms for the Mac OS X software that > > came with it. > > FWIW - I have a MacBook Pro with OS X. I want to run qubes on my MacBook Pro, > and OS X inside qubes. OS X is the running on genuine Apple hardware. No > license agreements broken. Cheers. > > I am not arguing that this is a good use case to work on for Qubes > developers, just saying that the license argument is untrue. > > Sadly, getting Qubes to run on Apple hardware isn't super easy either. > Naturally, the situation isn't as simple as you suggest. Apple licensing has altered from OSX version to version - it's pointless to talk of this without specifying WHICH version you are talking about. Also, most of the licenses are not transferable so if you acquired a second hand MacBook you almost certainly wont have the benefit of the "virtualization" clauses in later EULAs. On your second point, it's easy to get Qubes running on SOME Apple hardware - in my experience old MacBookPro6.2 works fine with 8GB RAM: the i5s don't, of course support VT-X but are otherwise fine. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/20171001150014.quzh5vnkp4nodrki%40thirdeyesecurity.org. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [qubes-users] Qubes 3 MacOSX
On Monday, October 31, 2016 at 4:39:40 AM UTC+8, Manuel Amador (Rudd-O) wrote: > On 06/17/2016 04:11 AM, Drew White wrote: > > > > > > On Sunday, 15 May 2016 14:05:50 UTC+10, Jeremy Rand wrote: > > > > FWIW, I think a legal argument could be made that such license > > agreements are anti-competitive and therefore unenforceable. > > However, > > I am unaware of any specific precedent for this argument, so it would > > indeed probably be unwise for ITL to violate the license agreement > > unless their goal is to win the inevitable lawsuit and thus achieve a > > beneficial precedent. (And while that would be laudable, I would > > definitely not blame ITL if they decided that such activities are not > > worth their effort or budget.) > > > > (And of course, I'm not a lawyer.) > > > > > > Well, in the end, I own a mac, It's not breaking any agreement or > > anything for me wanting to run it. > > Yeah you are. Check the licensing terms for the Mac OS X software that > came with it. FWIW - I have a MacBook Pro with OS X. I want to run qubes on my MacBook Pro, and OS X inside qubes. OS X is the running on genuine Apple hardware. No license agreements broken. Cheers. I am not arguing that this is a good use case to work on for Qubes developers, just saying that the license argument is untrue. Sadly, getting Qubes to run on Apple hardware isn't super easy either. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/a115a980-a0f1-42bf-87c4-a58ccbd8e21a%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [qubes-users] Qubes 3 MacOSX
On Sunday, April 2, 2017 at 5:09:05 PM UTC-7, Drew White wrote: > On Sunday, 2 April 2017 10:31:36 UTC+10, Eric wrote: > > Most of the following removed for brevity: > > > > On Sunday, November 6, 2016 at 4:37:15 AM UTC-8, Achim Patzner wrote: > > > > > > Point is: You can't buy a valid license without buying a machine with > > > it. I guess you could buy *heaps* of Mac mini just to obtain licenses... > > > Just like having to buy defective power supplies to get MagSafe > > > connectors. And Apple does not attack the people breaking the licenses; > > > they are usually aiming at those who enable others to break them (which > > > I regard as a good thing). > > > > > > > > > Achim > > > > > > Most of seems a bit misinformed (or at least very confusingly worded), and > > thankfully Apple's own SLA provides us with very direct answers: > > > > > > "B. License from Mac App Store. If you obtained a license for the Apple > > Software from the Mac App Store, then subject to the terms and conditions > > of this License and as permitted by the Mac App Store Usage Rules set forth > > in the App Store Terms and Conditions > > (http://www.apple.com/legal/itunes/ww/) (“Usage Rules”), you are granted a > > limited, non-transferable, non-exclusive license: > > > > [several sections removed for brevity] > > > > (iii) to install, use and run up to two (2) additional copies or instances > > of the Apple Software within virtual operating system environments on each > > Mac Computer you own or control that is already running the Apple > > Software." > > > > > > This is the license for the NON-SERVER version of Mac OS X Lion, 10.7, and > > every operating system since then has had a similar provision. This means > > that yes, you do need to run it on Apple hardware, but you can run up to > > three copies of OS X, or two in a virtual machine presuming you were using > > Xen or ESXi. > > > > Macs have good VT-d and VT-x support, but since they don't use PS/2 for > > trackpad and keyboard, or have a TPM, it would be a terrible platform to > > run Qubes on (trust me, I've tried). Not to mention that HiDPI support is > > still a work in progress - I miss my retina display something awful. > > > > > > Which brings us to the real question, how do we get this to work on Qubes > > today, on a non-Apple laptop? > > > > 1) accept that the developers will not work on making this happen, because > > Mac hardware is not a good target for Qubes unless something changes, and > > the dev's very limited time is much better spent elsewhere, especially > > given the potential for SLA abuse. I for one would much rather see Qubes 4 > > ship, than have macOS patches land. > > > > 2) accept *individual* responsibility for breaking a software license > > agreement. > > > > 3) try to make it work (not sure if those patches above still work in Xen > > 4.7, but Xen 4.7 might also have some of the newer code needed to make it > > work). ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ > > Also accept that if you have to patch Xen with code downloaded from a > > mailing list, you're probably downgrading your dom0 security, and therefore > > the overall system security, by a fair amount. > > > > 4) google a bunch (IIRC there is some info floating around on the QEMU > > mailing list that might help). > > > > 5) celebrate or drink, depending on the outcome. possibly both. > > > > The thing about the licensing is that IF you get permission from Apple to use > the OS under Qubes then you can. Even if it is not on Apple Hardware. > > If you get permission to do so then you can. There is no issue there. > > 1. The developers won't make it happen because they think it's breaking the > licensing to get permission to run it. > > 2. It isn't breaking the agreement if you have permission from Apple to do > the specified things. > > 3. I have patches and all that allow it to work in 3.0, all that one has to > do is update it to run properly on 4. But it can patch 3.1, however the > updates in 3.2 mean the patches need to be updated more. > > 4. Why use Google "a bunch" when you can just look on this forum and read > this thread? > > 5. Do both, because you should always celebrate both successes and failures. > From failure, you learn, from success, not so much. This thread has some interesting links, for example. (Though many things changed in Mavericks, and again in Sierra 10.12.4, so YMMV). Seems like the best option for now would be to try and get El Capitan running. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/c59b8d70-94f5-4ba0-9054-4b173c618081%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit http
Re: [qubes-users] Qubes 3 MacOSX
On Sunday, April 2, 2017 at 5:09:05 PM UTC-7, Drew White wrote: > > >The thing about the licensing is that IF you get permission from Apple to use >the OS under Qubes then you can. Even if it is not on Apple Hardware. Good luck. Apple has not done this for ANYONE, even the big names, since Steve Jobs came back. That door is closed. The way is shut. For our purposes, it's not a real option. > >If you get permission to do so then you can. There is no issue there. > >1. The developers won't make it happen because they think it's breaking the >licensing to get permission to run it. > >2. It isn't breaking the agreement if you have permission from Apple to do the >specified things. See the above. Short answer, if we can make it work such that it works on Apple laptops, no issue (and that work would likely carry over to non-Apple laptops, "incidentally" as it were. > >3. I have patches and all that allow it to work in 3.0, all that one has to do >is update it to run properly on 4. But it can patch 3.1, however the updates >in 3.2 mean the patches need to be updated more. So let's make that happen. There's an active ticket open (https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/1982) but I imagine it would require a fair piece of work. (and I sure as shit don't know enough about hypervisor underpinnings to even take a stab at that). >4. Why use Google "a bunch" when you can just look on this forum and read this >thread? Because there are additional resources that might contribute knowledge and help - specifically the ones involving OS X on QEMU. >5. Do both, because you should always celebrate both successes and failures. >From failure, you learn, from success, not so much. *toasts* -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/f3feb181-b59b-41b5-9e24-5e32a9188dce%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [qubes-users] Qubes 3 MacOSX
On Sunday, April 2, 2017 at 5:09:05 PM UTC-7, Drew White wrote: > > > The thing about the licensing is that IF you get permission from Apple to use > the OS under Qubes then you can. Even if it is not on Apple Hardware. Good luck. Apple has not done this for ANYONE, even the big names, since Steve Jobs came back. That door is closed. The way is shut. For our purposes, it's not a real option. > > If you get permission to do so then you can. There is no issue there. > > 1. The developers won't make it happen because they think it's breaking the > licensing to get permission to run it. > > 2. It isn't breaking the agreement if you have permission from Apple to do > the specified things. See the above. Short answer, if we can make it work such that it works on Apple laptops, no issue (and that work would likely carry over to non-Apple laptops, "incidentally" as it were. > > 3. I have patches and all that allow it to work in 3.0, all that one has to > do is update it to run properly on 4. But it can patch 3.1, however the > updates in 3.2 mean the patches need to be updated more. So let's make that happen. There's an active ticket open (https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/1982) but I imagine it would require a fair piece of work. (and I sure as shit don't know enough about hypervisor underpinnings to even take a stab at that). > 4. Why use Google "a bunch" when you can just look on this forum and read > this thread? Because there are additional resources that might contribute knowledge and help - specifically the ones involving OS X on QEMU. > 5. Do both, because you should always celebrate both successes and failures. > From failure, you learn, from success, not so much. *toasts* -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/e2a529c5-4a1e-4fef-8f3a-0e5143bf4864%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [qubes-users] Qubes 3 MacOSX
> The thing about the licensing is that IF you get permission from Apple to use > the OS under Qubes then you can. Even if it is not on Apple Hardware. Sure. This, however, essentiually means you get a different license. Well, anything that the original license does not allow can be solved by licencing the software under a different license – provided that the vendor wishes to do so. But the key question is, how hard is it to get the license. I doubt Apple will give the license to anyone who asks. If they did, why would they put the restrictions on the standard license? Regards, Vít Šesták 'v6ak' -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/8d13a4c7-1d29-4f29-801a-7a084b1c146b%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [qubes-users] Qubes 3 MacOSX
On Sunday, 2 April 2017 10:31:36 UTC+10, Eric wrote: > Most of the following removed for brevity: > > On Sunday, November 6, 2016 at 4:37:15 AM UTC-8, Achim Patzner wrote: > > > > Point is: You can't buy a valid license without buying a machine with > > it. I guess you could buy *heaps* of Mac mini just to obtain licenses... > > Just like having to buy defective power supplies to get MagSafe > > connectors. And Apple does not attack the people breaking the licenses; > > they are usually aiming at those who enable others to break them (which > > I regard as a good thing). > > > > > > Achim > > > Most of seems a bit misinformed (or at least very confusingly worded), and > thankfully Apple's own SLA provides us with very direct answers: > > > "B. License from Mac App Store. If you obtained a license for the Apple > Software from the Mac App Store, then subject to the terms and conditions of > this License and as permitted by the Mac App Store Usage Rules set forth in > the App Store Terms and Conditions (http://www.apple.com/legal/itunes/ww/) > (“Usage Rules”), you are granted a limited, non-transferable, non-exclusive > license: > > [several sections removed for brevity] > > (iii) to install, use and run up to two (2) additional copies or instances of > the Apple Software within virtual operating system environments on each Mac > Computer you own or control that is already running the Apple Software." > > > This is the license for the NON-SERVER version of Mac OS X Lion, 10.7, and > every operating system since then has had a similar provision. This means > that yes, you do need to run it on Apple hardware, but you can run up to > three copies of OS X, or two in a virtual machine presuming you were using > Xen or ESXi. > > Macs have good VT-d and VT-x support, but since they don't use PS/2 for > trackpad and keyboard, or have a TPM, it would be a terrible platform to run > Qubes on (trust me, I've tried). Not to mention that HiDPI support is still a > work in progress - I miss my retina display something awful. > > > Which brings us to the real question, how do we get this to work on Qubes > today, on a non-Apple laptop? > > 1) accept that the developers will not work on making this happen, because > Mac hardware is not a good target for Qubes unless something changes, and the > dev's very limited time is much better spent elsewhere, especially given the > potential for SLA abuse. I for one would much rather see Qubes 4 ship, than > have macOS patches land. > > 2) accept *individual* responsibility for breaking a software license > agreement. > > 3) try to make it work (not sure if those patches above still work in Xen > 4.7, but Xen 4.7 might also have some of the newer code needed to make it > work). ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ > Also accept that if you have to patch Xen with code downloaded from a mailing > list, you're probably downgrading your dom0 security, and therefore the > overall system security, by a fair amount. > > 4) google a bunch (IIRC there is some info floating around on the QEMU > mailing list that might help). > > 5) celebrate or drink, depending on the outcome. possibly both. The thing about the licensing is that IF you get permission from Apple to use the OS under Qubes then you can. Even if it is not on Apple Hardware. If you get permission to do so then you can. There is no issue there. 1. The developers won't make it happen because they think it's breaking the licensing to get permission to run it. 2. It isn't breaking the agreement if you have permission from Apple to do the specified things. 3. I have patches and all that allow it to work in 3.0, all that one has to do is update it to run properly on 4. But it can patch 3.1, however the updates in 3.2 mean the patches need to be updated more. 4. Why use Google "a bunch" when you can just look on this forum and read this thread? 5. Do both, because you should always celebrate both successes and failures. >From failure, you learn, from success, not so much. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/41e259da-2a73-430e-b384-4cfdaf35eae0%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [qubes-users] Qubes 3 MacOSX
On Saturday, April 1, 2017 at 5:31:36 PM UTC-7, Eric wrote: > 4) google a bunch (IIRC there is some info floating around on the QEMU > mailing list that might help). http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~somlo/OSXKVM/ looks like Eric Shelton who provided the patches up-thread did most of the work on this. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/977ec4e5-6f87-4fb5-9086-69d33260e3d3%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [qubes-users] Qubes 3 MacOSX
Most of the following removed for brevity: On Sunday, November 6, 2016 at 4:37:15 AM UTC-8, Achim Patzner wrote: > > Point is: You can't buy a valid license without buying a machine with > it. I guess you could buy *heaps* of Mac mini just to obtain licenses... > Just like having to buy defective power supplies to get MagSafe > connectors. And Apple does not attack the people breaking the licenses; > they are usually aiming at those who enable others to break them (which > I regard as a good thing). > > > Achim Most of seems a bit misinformed (or at least very confusingly worded), and thankfully Apple's own SLA provides us with very direct answers: "B. License from Mac App Store. If you obtained a license for the Apple Software from the Mac App Store, then subject to the terms and conditions of this License and as permitted by the Mac App Store Usage Rules set forth in the App Store Terms and Conditions (http://www.apple.com/legal/itunes/ww/) (“Usage Rules”), you are granted a limited, non-transferable, non-exclusive license: [several sections removed for brevity] (iii) to install, use and run up to two (2) additional copies or instances of the Apple Software within virtual operating system environments on each Mac Computer you own or control that is already running the Apple Software." This is the license for the NON-SERVER version of Mac OS X Lion, 10.7, and every operating system since then has had a similar provision. This means that yes, you do need to run it on Apple hardware, but you can run up to three copies of OS X, or two in a virtual machine presuming you were using Xen or ESXi. Macs have good VT-d and VT-x support, but since they don't use PS/2 for trackpad and keyboard, or have a TPM, it would be a terrible platform to run Qubes on (trust me, I've tried). Not to mention that HiDPI support is still a work in progress - I miss my retina display something awful. Which brings us to the real question, how do we get this to work on Qubes today, on a non-Apple laptop? 1) accept that the developers will not work on making this happen, because Mac hardware is not a good target for Qubes unless something changes, and the dev's very limited time is much better spent elsewhere, especially given the potential for SLA abuse. I for one would much rather see Qubes 4 ship, than have macOS patches land. 2) accept *individual* responsibility for breaking a software license agreement. 3) try to make it work (not sure if those patches above still work in Xen 4.7, but Xen 4.7 might also have some of the newer code needed to make it work). ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Also accept that if you have to patch Xen with code downloaded from a mailing list, you're probably downgrading your dom0 security, and therefore the overall system security, by a fair amount. 4) google a bunch (IIRC there is some info floating around on the QEMU mailing list that might help). 5) celebrate or drink, depending on the outcome. possibly both. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/686c034b-0bc4-420c-aa97-ddd864699e65%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [qubes-users] Qubes 3 MacOSX
On Sunday, November 6, 2016 at 4:37:15 AM UTC-8, Achim Patzner wrote: [etc etc etc etc removed for brevity] > > Point is: You can't buy a valid license without buying a machine with > it. I guess you could buy *heaps* of Mac mini just to obtain licenses... > Just like having to buy defective power supplies to get MagSafe > connectors. And Apple does not attack the people breaking the licenses; > they are usually aiming at those who enable others to break them (which > I regard as a good thing). > > > Achim Most of this is untrue, and thankfully Apple's own SLA provides us with very direct answers: "B. License from Mac App Store. If you obtained a license for the Apple Software from the Mac App Store, then subject to the terms and conditions of this License and as permitted by the Mac App Store Usage Rules set forth in the App Store Terms and Conditions (http://www.apple.com/legal/itunes/ww/) (“Usage Rules”), you are granted a limited, non-transferable, non-exclusive license: [several sections removed for brevity] (iii) to install, use and run up to two (2) additional copies or instances of the Apple Software within virtual operating system environments on each Mac Computer you own or control that is already running the Apple Software." This is the license for Mac OS X Lion, 10.7, and every operating system since then has had a similar provision. Yes, you do need to run it on Apple hardware, and, since Macs don't use PS/2 for trackpad and keyboard, it would be a terrible platform to run Qubes on (trust me, I've tried). They have good VT-d and VT-x support, but no TPM, and a bunch of really-well-performing wifi chips that don't work very well with Qubes either. Not to mention that HiDPI support is still a work in progress (though I miss my retina display something awful). Which brings us to the real question, how do we get this to work on Qubes today, on a non-Apple laptop? 1) accept that the developers will not work on making this happen, because Mac hardware is not a good target for Qubes unless something changes (which is doubtful, since Apple is going more and more crazy with proprietary stuff, making it harder and harder for Linux to write drivers), and this use case, while super helpful for a small number of folks, would. 2) accept *personal* responsibility for breaking a software license agreement. 3) try to make it work (not sure if those patches above still work in Xen 4.7, but Xen 4.7 might also have some of the newer code needed to make it work). ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 4) google a bunch (there is some info floating around on the QEMU mailing list I believe). 5) celebrate or drink, depending on the outcome. possibly both. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/3beab201-dd3d-4bfb-9e56-cf2126c7d6e1%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [qubes-users] Qubes 3 MacOSX
On Monday, 7 November 2016 01:54:50 UTC+11, Dominik Dorn wrote: > The current VMWare Fusion v8 allows to run multiple instances of OSX. > They even advertise it on their website: > http://www.vmware.com/products/fusion.html > "macOS Sierra-Ready > Launch virtual machines on Macs with macOS 10.12 Sierra, or safely test the > new macOS in a sandbox on your current Mac without disruption." Still, it's running on a Mac... So that's why aparently they can advertise that like that and do it like that. Because it's on a Mac already. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/f0efbff3-61d3-4a30-80db-9e0b739479f9%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [qubes-users] Qubes 3 MacOSX
The current VMWare Fusion v8 allows to run multiple instances of OSX. They even advertise it on their website: http://www.vmware.com/products/fusion.html "macOS Sierra-Ready Launch virtual machines on Macs with macOS 10.12 Sierra, or safely test the new macOS in a sandbox on your current Mac without disruption." -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/CABHM76WhY%2BmXnrXHQbOhZOFOHf%3DFKQ80D%2BgXkwrK0fcJ5obzrA%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [qubes-users] Qubes 3 MacOSX
Am 06.11.2016 um 10:42 schrieb Alex: > On 11/06/2016 10:31 AM, Jeremy Rand wrote: > Actually reading the license of OSX available at > https://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/MacOSX.htm is very easy > because they are awfully short and simple, compared to a lot of other > software. > > And in 2.A. there is the actual permitted use: >> This License allows you to install and use one copy of the Apple >> Software on a single Apple-labeled computer at a time. > which means that you can own an Apple Mac computer, install > Qubes/Linux/what you want on it, install VirtualBox/VMWare/Xen on it, > and have an OSX virtual machine while still behaving according to the > license. There were other people who thought it would be that simple (mind you, I'm not talking about Mac OS X Server, a product that became a 30$ add-on later); does anyone remember a product called VMware Fusion version 4.10 which suddenly removed the artificial barrier against running non-Server Mac OS X on VMware and which had ot be replaced by version 4.11 only two weeks later with the only bug fixed being able to run Mac OS X on a VM? That must have ben one hell f a letter Apple sent, I guess I would pay for reading it. > The third point, "ensure your physical system is an Apple-labeled > computer", explicits the then-actual license conditions to run a > virtualized OSX within the license terms. And if you do, you can run VMware ESXi on a Mac Pro cluster and use it to virtualize multiple Mac OS-based machines, as long as they are installing Server.app on them. One of our customers is doing it to get the applications from his old Mac Servers running in a world where the most important customer is obviously the iPad Pro user... > AFAIK, by the link from the apple store reported above, these terms are > still valid - you can run a virtualized OSX and be within the license > terms if it is the only instance you run, and it runs on an > Apple-labeled computer. Point is: You can't buy a valid license without buying a machine with it. I guess you could buy *heaps* of Mac mini just to obtain licenses... Just like having to buy defective power supplies to get MagSafe connectors. And Apple does not attack the people breaking the licenses; they are usually aiming at those who enable others to break them (which I regard as a good thing). Achim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/b63a0115-312d-a809-8cad-62154112c7b0%40noses.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [qubes-users] Qubes 3 MacOSX
On 11/06/2016 10:31 AM, Jeremy Rand wrote: > Manuel Amador (Rudd-O): >> On 06/17/2016 04:11 AM, Drew White wrote: >>> >>> Well, in the end, I own a mac, It's not breaking any agreement >>> or anything for me wanting to run it. >> >> Yeah you are. Check the licensing terms for the Mac OS X software >> that came with it. >> >> Not that it matters, as it's a bullshit "agreement" that transforms >> a purchase into somewhat of a feudal renting system of objects. > > [...] Actually reading the license of OSX available at https://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/MacOSX.htm is very easy because they are awfully short and simple, compared to a lot of other software. And in 2.A. there is the actual permitted use: > This License allows you to install and use one copy of the Apple > Software on a single Apple-labeled computer at a time. which means that you can own an Apple Mac computer, install Qubes/Linux/what you want on it, install VirtualBox/VMWare/Xen on it, and have an OSX virtual machine while still behaving according to the license. That's also the position of VMWare regarding their products; please check http://partnerweb.vmware.com/GOSIG/MacOSX_10_9.html where they speak about VMWare Fusion: > Prerequisites > > Before you begin, verify that the following tasks are complete: > > Read General Installation Instructions for All VMware Products. > Download Install OS X Mavericks.app from the Mac App Store. Ensure > your physical system is an Apple-labeled computer. This is required > to install or run OS X 10.9 in a virtual machine. Ensure you physical > system can support an additional virtual machine with at least 2GB of > RAM. The third point, "ensure your physical system is an Apple-labeled computer", explicits the then-actual license conditions to run a virtualized OSX within the license terms. AFAIK, by the link from the apple store reported above, these terms are still valid - you can run a virtualized OSX and be within the license terms if it is the only instance you run, and it runs on an Apple-labeled computer. -- Alex -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/5ccefa28-dde2-9b7e-6851-2438cc2165f7%40gmx.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [qubes-users] Qubes 3 MacOSX
Manuel Amador (Rudd-O): > On 06/17/2016 04:11 AM, Drew White wrote: >> >> >> On Sunday, 15 May 2016 14:05:50 UTC+10, Jeremy Rand wrote: >> >> FWIW, I think a legal argument could be made that such license >> agreements are anti-competitive and therefore unenforceable. >> However, >> I am unaware of any specific precedent for this argument, so it would >> indeed probably be unwise for ITL to violate the license agreement >> unless their goal is to win the inevitable lawsuit and thus achieve a >> beneficial precedent. (And while that would be laudable, I would >> definitely not blame ITL if they decided that such activities are not >> worth their effort or budget.) >> >> (And of course, I'm not a lawyer.) >> >> >> Well, in the end, I own a mac, It's not breaking any agreement or >> anything for me wanting to run it. > > Yeah you are. Check the licensing terms for the Mac OS X software that > came with it. > > Not that it matters, as it's a bullshit "agreement" that transforms a > purchase into somewhat of a feudal renting system of objects. Drew reminds me of a kid I knew in high school who routinely got his legal advice from the first response he got on Yahoo Answers. You can't seriously expect someone with that mindset to have the patience or skill set to read the OS X license agreement, can you? I mean, he doesn't even have the patience or skill set to read paragraph-long answers that he's given on this mailing list (see his countless other threads). -Jeremy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/763585c5-cba0-d079-77e6-48012b34b6d5%40airmail.cc. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [qubes-users] Qubes 3 MacOSX
On 06/17/2016 04:11 AM, Drew White wrote: > > > On Sunday, 15 May 2016 14:05:50 UTC+10, Jeremy Rand wrote: > > FWIW, I think a legal argument could be made that such license > agreements are anti-competitive and therefore unenforceable. > However, > I am unaware of any specific precedent for this argument, so it would > indeed probably be unwise for ITL to violate the license agreement > unless their goal is to win the inevitable lawsuit and thus achieve a > beneficial precedent. (And while that would be laudable, I would > definitely not blame ITL if they decided that such activities are not > worth their effort or budget.) > > (And of course, I'm not a lawyer.) > > > Well, in the end, I own a mac, It's not breaking any agreement or > anything for me wanting to run it. Yeah you are. Check the licensing terms for the Mac OS X software that came with it. Not that it matters, as it's a bullshit "agreement" that transforms a purchase into somewhat of a feudal renting system of objects. -- Rudd-O http://rudd-o.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/87694b7c-33f9-8a1c-fd26-14d1f361e02e%40rudd-o.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [qubes-users] Qubes 3 MacOSX
On Saturday, October 29, 2016 at 12:54:11 PM UTC-4, Andrew David Wong wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA512 > > On 2016-10-29 09:19, Dominik Dorn wrote: > > [image: Inline image 1] > > > > > > Hmm.. just noticed that it does not say "we support os x"... still a little > > misleading.. > > > > Oh, that's just Google giving you a preview of our "What is Qubes OS?" > explanation: > > https://www.qubes-os.org/intro/#what-is-qubes-os > > As you can see, that sentence is literally just explaining what an operating > system is (for non-technical readers) and pointing to the most well-known > examples (which, of course, includes OS X). > > > so back to the question... what's required to get this going? > > > > I'm afraid Qubes does not (currently) support OS X. However, we have an > open issue for it, and we welcome help on this: > > https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/1982 > > You can read more in this message (and the surrounding thread): > > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/qubes-users/RiVntUzgJmY/rXMtXD3WKQAJ > > > P.S. - Please try to avoid top-posting. Do not expect any success with getting OSX/MacOS working until a recent version of QEMU is in place for HVM (the only version of QEMU that works in a stub domain right now is very old and many, many changes and improvements have been made to QEMU since then that make it a lot easier to run guest OSes. Getting that to work is a substantial development effort. Headway is being made on it, but I don't know if you can count on it being a Qubes 4.0 feature - I suspect it is not a blocker that would justify delaying that release. Then, even after QEMU is in place, there will likely be a few additional challenges, but I there are enough examples of OSX/MacOS being run under QEMU+KVM to get past that. Finally, running OSX/MacOS as a guest OS never really has been much of a priority in the Xen community, so it may never end up running "out of the box." Eric -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/28e9f1cb-326f-4955-8a4c-7c735c17cc09%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [qubes-users] Qubes 3 MacOSX
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 2016-10-29 09:19, Dominik Dorn wrote: > [image: Inline image 1] > > > Hmm.. just noticed that it does not say "we support os x"... still a little > misleading.. > Oh, that's just Google giving you a preview of our "What is Qubes OS?" explanation: https://www.qubes-os.org/intro/#what-is-qubes-os As you can see, that sentence is literally just explaining what an operating system is (for non-technical readers) and pointing to the most well-known examples (which, of course, includes OS X). > so back to the question... what's required to get this going? > I'm afraid Qubes does not (currently) support OS X. However, we have an open issue for it, and we welcome help on this: https://github.com/QubesOS/qubes-issues/issues/1982 You can read more in this message (and the surrounding thread): https://groups.google.com/d/msg/qubes-users/RiVntUzgJmY/rXMtXD3WKQAJ P.S. - Please try to avoid top-posting. > > On Sat, Oct 29, 2016 at 5:15 PM, Andrew David Wong wrote: > > On 2016-10-29 07:52, domi...@dominikdorn.com wrote: Hi.. just chiming in... I came here because of all the hype that's going on about Cubes-OS at > the moment, mainly because of the Snowden movie. I liked what I've seen in > the video tour. > > Welcome. :) > On the main website, Cubes-OS is advertising that its able to run Mac OS > X and iOS. > > Where do you see this? > - -- Andrew David Wong (Axon) Community Manager, Qubes OS https://www.qubes-os.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJYFNQoAAoJENtN07w5UDAwykgP/io5tpKGuzywpVh+lwAqyagr 2cqOlTf9U9gUn/8M/eSuyhIfpgjcytIsHUnX28vABhtITSgZ1Br2eTIfiHNPlrvd Ad+wqbY9NXkb5sG865i5sgXrZEosiVSRv1I4+ut49foWOAiIjDzoAGuCxS/usbUR RvugtKBhVMPWwa7jdFLWDJeSlPLxzo0TKyTWY2dY0U4+pp1Z37wI6NquplzS2Pzb AqeDGVIFzTAS0f1nb7VDTaf/1VPCEtX8ZUoRR6LxgZJZxOkwp8NQc2gD4t+uM5kJ cqNwSlep8PBsODGZmvdt9fmOFUC3ZSwpBqLU2S00omtDo84s0NVEj7t7CM3jQZDN ipm/SxYehrbJaaSkH6nv1+HA5kJdMV7eAOLxp1d851lXOH3EW0oz9M+ksbTffb+V WsDEbhZi1NPgny7XSzQ1HDRdo7mUWv/nzvVGzZrW/6A0pQsZ1DBxIYZN2EOSFh3E Lkip3jL1Jgh8qQINu8nd+Fh4pUVvb0XqO9kq+MMOEwhXs7kGWeGibafZvCh1YBeO SAGKajq5epkLnnSQ6KIARHmguqiwVdk0BI89AWghzwEmiw8FEwOnKZoQ6wPdZAJR Xz+ZJNKmFCLw5rXp2SatxRA59lUHIdR95PiUT/bMJ06UF31OPYH/isv1OfAjfIQt 2yLyG9PoQboZZ2JbPgpw =WS7M -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/fd14e740-98a9-f627-4ac8-b6d2d9806b41%40qubes-os.org. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [qubes-users] Qubes 3 MacOSX
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 2016-10-29 07:52, domi...@dominikdorn.com wrote: > Hi.. just chiming in... > > I came here because of all the hype that's going on about Cubes-OS at the > moment, mainly because of the Snowden movie. I liked what I've seen in the > video tour. > Welcome. :) > On the main website, Cubes-OS is advertising that its able to run Mac OS X > and iOS. > Where do you see this? - -- Andrew David Wong (Axon) Community Manager, Qubes OS https://www.qubes-os.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJYFL0aAAoJENtN07w5UDAwDcgQAM08InYAYRdAjbyEQooWkbOL 26ZIscMhW7niCYoKGEQml2igxE6hE6NKiT7uIVoQRRzfm1QZpMkop1VqE+f+qZ/M u60ThVIRHAEKbJe6PzxruwEORwtJ7UAzvlxYBeg6XCwiHVuDUxIAeoSSJUR6XOwS iWTfdz6FQ70fFDA3OCQjx2kTC+7r3CItw3S3CtzWbl0pr1lpEwRb84/NkrrULwr1 WegVwS0CwJdbpn5OUPSIAc9HlM9zumTZHIvL1FNPTSZxnzR4gZQ1dggTEONY/kSK X9cOfdyVTpjN1Ubb23cQeioHKt1o5JaiZcRr/rApRJJUwiJhG0IwCfzzsTow8CQ7 agVy5Atya6alUy6oWDsva22BbGLAUyEb6K0wfu5ti2fP/8GJlvzVQZ/r3ZS7zxG1 eheYkHnyuAdBRbpgMz4PfaNd50Hfp8E9egDvD+WsQwUbkohp9G0kafZkCao3f2Ax 1ecTBmJjLgQExkmTQ5gSC7jHH2Itt58dYYzN3n5IRpn6BDyWi9tvNSzMG3yIDGUM mnKTkAghZQSolA4YzRz7MFcvIRQGCydc7DWxbOrx+TIsL4DRiYoQnYy6/Sgs3Eha pqQZ3mxiWRLPsl/zSKbTuomDcQ6r+dcRYZ5HfQf3CoFzKmP5Pd6S0p7wod/QTSlb qjvPezog8Iekgguu8ipv =zUp6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/5f585451-a8d2-81be-6f01-fa3443c1415f%40qubes-os.org. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [qubes-users] Qubes 3 MacOSX
Hi.. just chiming in... I came here because of all the hype that's going on about Cubes-OS at the moment, mainly because of the Snowden movie. I liked what I've seen in the video tour. On the main website, Cubes-OS is advertising that its able to run Mac OS X and iOS. I also own a Macbook Pro and would like to run Mac OS X as a Cubicle / multiple cubicles .. at the moment, I can quite easily install a OS X VM with VMWare Fusion - they even provide a explicit installation option for it, where you can install it from the rescue partition. So obviously, the legal part is already tackled by checking for some properties on the underlying hardware.. Apple seams to be fine with it, as else VMWare wouldn't allow it. The two main questions now are: 1) Are there skilled CubesOS developers that would be willing to do this? 2) What resources would they need to do this (hardware, money, other developers)? if we have a yes for 1) we can try to find a way for 2) ... crowdfunding comes to my mind. If of course no Devs are interested in this, the whole thing makes no sense and references to MacOS X and iOS should be removed from the website, so people now right from the start that this is not supported. cheers, Dominik -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/c07084a3-961f-41e0-aba1-35f7146e6836%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [qubes-users] Qubes 3 MacOSX
> On June 17, 2016 at 11:47 AM Achim Patzner wrote: > > > Am 17.06.2016 um 06:11 schrieb Drew White: > > Well, in the end, I own a mac, It's not breaking any agreement or > > anything for me wanting to run it. > > You didn't read the license very well, then. Depending on the version of > Mac OS X you bought as part of your machine there are several > restrictions (including only running server versions and only running it > on genuine Apple hardware) on the use of the software you licensed. Actually if he updates his iMac regularly it depends on the version installed. And 10.10 is allowed to be virtualized (10.7 and up is client and server; 10.5 and .6 only server - since for some versions the server is only an extension of the client via an AppStore-App anything else wouldn't make sense) > > All that the qubes-os developers are doing is putting the availability > > for those that have a MAC and want to run one piece of hardware > > instead of 4 to do so without an issue. > > _could_ be doing. > > > If people decide to use it for the wrong purposes, then that is not > > the fault of Qubes-OS. Qubes-OS and developers should not be the > > judge, jury, and executioner for this. > > The Qubes developers should have the right to decide that for themselves. Yep, priorities and such. > > The patch for Qubes 3.0 would work fine, jsut have to put it into 3.1 > > / 4.0 and get it working again. > > If you belive this is a good idea why don't you spend your time on doing it? Because not everyone is able to code, test code and build an operating system and would need a lot of work by the user to get to a level to include an appropriate patch (sorry, I don't know what exactly the patch is doing and what needs to be done to recompile the Xen hypervisor and install it properly) but maybe not a lot of work by the developers. But I also have to say that users often assume things are simpler than they expect. If the devs have no use for OS X and there's only one user who really wants it, the priority is probably not that high. > > I own a Mac, I want to run MacOSX on Qubes on my PC which is much much > > more powerful than my Mac. And that way I could also have multiples. > > You know that you really start sounding like a spoilt child? If this is > so important to do, implement it, publish it on the repository and > mantain the code across Qubes versions. Do the work or pay for it. Yes, there is always the option to ask a Qubes-dev what he wants in terms of compensation to get the feature faster implemented. I adjusted my expectations in terms of F/OSS that I can have feature requests and bug reports and hope that they get implemented at some point because I just don't have the money to pay a dev because I expect their hourly rates are outside my budget. Even with paid software I had to adjust my expectations that I pay for what the software can do now - everything else is just hopeful wishing (looking at you Hibari). Niels -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/991542679.29606.1466156641015%40office.mailbox.org. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [qubes-users] Qubes 3 MacOSX
Am 17.06.2016 um 06:11 schrieb Drew White: Well, in the end, I own a mac, It's not breaking any agreement or anything for me wanting to run it. You didn't read the license very well, then. Depending on the version of Mac OS X you bought as part of your machine there are several restrictions (including only running server versions and only running it on genuine Apple hardware) on the use of the software you licensed. All that the qubes-os developers are doing is putting the availability for those that have a MAC and want to run one piece of hardware instead of 4 to do so without an issue. _could_ be doing. If people decide to use it for the wrong purposes, then that is not the fault of Qubes-OS. Qubes-OS and developers should not be the judge, jury, and executioner for this. The Qubes developers should have the right to decide that for themselves. The patch for Qubes 3.0 would work fine, jsut have to put it into 3.1 / 4.0 and get it working again. If you belive this is a good idea why don't you spend your time on doing it? I own a Mac, I want to run MacOSX on Qubes on my PC which is much much more powerful than my Mac. And that way I could also have multiples. You know that you really start sounding like a spoilt child? If this is so important to do, implement it, publish it on the repository and mantain the code across Qubes versions. Do the work or pay for it. Achim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/5763C72C.2050006%40noses.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [qubes-users] Qubes 3 MacOSX
On Sunday, 15 May 2016 14:05:50 UTC+10, Jeremy Rand wrote: > > FWIW, I think a legal argument could be made that such license > agreements are anti-competitive and therefore unenforceable. However, > I am unaware of any specific precedent for this argument, so it would > indeed probably be unwise for ITL to violate the license agreement > unless their goal is to win the inevitable lawsuit and thus achieve a > beneficial precedent. (And while that would be laudable, I would > definitely not blame ITL if they decided that such activities are not > worth their effort or budget.) > > (And of course, I'm not a lawyer.) > Well, in the end, I own a mac, It's not breaking any agreement or anything for me wanting to run it. All that the qubes-os developers are doing is putting the availability for those that have a MAC and want to run one piece of hardware instead of 4 to do so without an issue. There is no infringment on any agreement or lisencing there or anything because they would already own a Mac. If people decide to use it for the wrong purposes, then that is not the fault of Qubes-OS. Qubes-OS and developers should not be the judge, jury, and executioner for this. We can run Windows on a Mac if we have Qubes on the Mac, so why not the other way around? For Windows people use Illegal Lisence Keys and cracks and all, but that is THEIR issue, not the manufacturer of the hardware. The patch for Qubes 3.0 would work fine, jsut have to put it into 3.1 / 4.0 and get it working again. I own a Mac, I want to run MacOSX on Qubes on my PC which is much much more powerful than my Mac. And that way I could also have multiples. I could have one that I use for this, one for that, and another for another. I own a Mac, I want to run OSX, I want to run it under Qubes. I'm not doing anything wrong. If people choose to do it wrong, then that is their fault, not Qubes. Qubes wouldn't be saying that people can use it to have MacOSX if they don't have a Mac, but you would just be allowing those that have a Mac to run OSX on their PC. You are not responsible for those that do things illegally. Please, add it in and get it working, it would be most beneficial to have a SECURE operating system for OSX as well as windows and other variants of Unix. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to qubes-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to qubes-users@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/5c768b0a-a968-4217-ba3f-291afbc0a553%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
