Re: [racket-users] Re: truly stand-alone Windows ".exe"s

2018-03-28 Thread Alex Harsanyi


On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 9:17:49 PM UTC+8, Matthew Flatt wrote:
>
> I should have bumped the version number when adding `--embed-dlls`, but 
> I didn't. So, even though it's still version 6.90.0.23, `--embed-dlls` 
> is in snapshots starting with the ones built on March 26. 
>

I tried the new build, and indeed the '--embed-dlls` works.

However, with this Racket version I can no longer set a custom icon on the 
generated executable, either using the --ico option to "raco exe" or the 
'ico key to the #:aux parameter for `create-embedding-executable`.

Best Regards,
Alex.

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Re: [racket-users] Profiling places

2018-03-28 Thread 'Paulo Matos' via Racket Users


On 27/03/18 17:18, Vincent St-Amour wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Mar 2018 07:55:08 -0500,
> 'Paulo Matos' via Racket Users wrote:
>>
>> I was trying to confirm my suspicion that profile needs to be manually
>> setup in each place for profiling.
> 
> Right. Each place has its own separate runtime, and the profile only
> spans a single runtime.
> 
>> Is this a possibility or is there something out there to make this
>> easier? Also, profile-thunk says that:
>> "To track all threads, specify a non-#f value for the threads?
>> argument―this will execute the computation in a fresh custodian, and
>> keep track of all threads under this custodian."
>>
>> But what happens if the place itself creates its own custodian to launch
>> threads?
> 
> In this case, thread refers to Racket's concurrency mechanism; this is
> unrelated to places.
> 

I understand that, what I meant was that I was wondering what would
happen (haven't tried it yet) if the place spawned by `dynamic-place`
creates a new custodian and uses that to create new threads. Would
profiling through the place, with #:threads #t, still profile the
threads? -- maybe I need to create an example.

> On Tue, 27 Mar 2018 08:15:19 -0500,
> 'Paulo Matos' via Racket Users wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On 27/03/18 14:55, 'Paulo Matos' via Racket Users wrote:
>>>
>>> 1. setup a profile command line argument that's passed to places-profile.rkt
>>> 2. send a flag indicating if we need profiling in any-double?
>>> 3. then use profile-thunk on the function if profiling is required, or
>>> nothing if profiling is not required.
>>>
>>
>> I have attempted this:
>> [...]
> 
> I get profiling information (including periodic reports) when I disable
> errortrace mode in `profile-thunk`.
> 
> The errortrace mode requires the use of the errortrace compile-handler,
> without which there's nothing for the profiler to observe.
> 
> `raco profile --use-errortrace` sets it, as does `racket -l errortrace
> -t places-profile.rkt`. However, neither of those work on your example.
> 
> Could places be interfering with the compile-handler?
> 

True, I can confirm that. I will open an issue on this. I have no idea
how the internals of these things work so not sure what could be
happening here. Maybe Matthew knows?

-- 
Paulo Matos

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Re: [racket-users] Profiling places

2018-03-28 Thread 'Paulo Matos' via Racket Users


On 28/03/18 10:23, 'Paulo Matos' via Racket Users wrote:
> True, I can confirm that. I will open an issue on this. 

Done #2019.
https://github.com/racket/racket/issues/2019

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[racket-users] Re: compile-zo: date for newly created .zo file ... is before source-file date ... which appears to be in the future

2018-03-28 Thread Greg Trzeciak
Quick update - doing a fresh install of Racket solved the problem on my 
machine, an interesting case nevertheless.

On Wednesday, March 28, 2018 at 1:07:14 AM UTC+2, Greg Trzeciak wrote:
>
> Forgot to mention - my setup is: Racket 6.12 on Windows 10... could be 
> some recent Windows update?
>

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Re: [racket-users] Behavior of nested ellipses

2018-03-28 Thread Matthias Felleisen

> On Mar 27, 2018, at 11:58 PM, Justin Pombrio  wrote:
> 
> Matthias: the algorithm I was thinking of is the Macro-by-Example algorithm 
> that Ryan pointed out, which is neither of yours. Decompose the environment 
> at the outer ellipsis. I take back my claim that it's the most obvious 
> algorithm, though.


Well I sat with Eugene for most of the weekend in 87 when he implemented 
Mitch’s suggestions in extend-syntax. I surely misremembered the details, but 
it is easy to reconstruct that there are several alternatives of mapping at 
such points and that the algorithm has to proceed compositionally. The rest is 
a question of which of the alternatives you prefer. 

Eugene picked one that night, Racket picked a different one a few decades 
later. I don’t see why one is better than the other. 

— Matthias

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Re: [racket-users] Behavior of nested ellipses

2018-03-28 Thread Matthew Flatt
Just to answer some parts of the original question:

At Tue, 27 Mar 2018 13:01:54 -0700 (PDT), Justin Pombrio wrote:
> I'm surprised by the behavior of using a pattern variable under one set of 
> ellipses in the pattern, and under two sets of ellipses in the template:
> [...]
> Is this the expected behavior?

Yes. See this part of the documentation of `syntax`:

 If a pattern variable is replicated by more es in a template
 than the depth marker of its binding, then the pattern variable’s
 result is determined normally for inner es (up to the
 binding’s depth marker), and then the result is replicated as
 necessary to satisfy outer es.


> And is there a good reason for it?

If I remember correctly, I implemented a different behavior first, but
switched to be consistent with the `syntax-case` implementation. I also
vaguely remember that the switch made things work better. That was a
long time ago, though, so I may not remember correctly.

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Re: [racket-users] Re: truly stand-alone Windows ".exe"s

2018-03-28 Thread Matthew Flatt
At Wed, 28 Mar 2018 00:54:01 -0700 (PDT), Alex Harsanyi wrote:
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, March 27, 2018 at 9:17:49 PM UTC+8, Matthew Flatt wrote:
> >
> > I should have bumped the version number when adding `--embed-dlls`, but 
> > I didn't. So, even though it's still version 6.90.0.23, `--embed-dlls` 
> > is in snapshots starting with the ones built on March 26. 
> >
> 
> I tried the new build, and indeed the '--embed-dlls` works.
> 
> However, with this Racket version I can no longer set a custom icon on the 
> generated executable, either using the --ico option to "raco exe" or the 
> 'ico key to the #:aux parameter for `create-embedding-executable`.

I'm not sure why that would be, and I haven't yet been able to
replicate that problem.

Just to make sure, it's not a caching issue with the File Explorer
view, right? When I rebuild an executable on Windows, I sometimes have
to move it to a different folder to see the icon update (and when I
move the executable back to its original location, it sometimes goes
back to its original icon).

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Re: [racket-users] Re: truly stand-alone Windows ".exe"s

2018-03-28 Thread Alex Harsanyi
Yes, this seems to be a Windows Explorer problem, if I move the executable to a 
different place, the icon changes.  It is the first time I see this 
behaviour... Sorry for the false alarm :-)

Alex. 

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Re: [racket-users] The Nitty Gritty of Pixels, Pens, and Lines example output

2018-03-28 Thread Robby Findler
I've pushed an edit to the docs that attempts to address this point.

https://github.com/racket/htdp/commit/86900c00e770f1336dafce331c206240495a9953

Robby


On Sat, Mar 24, 2018 at 3:44 PM, Stephen Smith
 wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> When running the following example from the Racket docs section titled 'The
> Nitty Gritty of Pixels, Pens, and Lines':
>
> (define p1 (make-pen "black" 1 "solid" "round" "round"))
>
> (rectangle 20 20 "outline" p1)
>
> instead of a rectangle with all four sides drawn with equal thickness as
> shown in the example output, I get the top and left sides drawn with 1 pixel
> and the right and bottom sides are drawn as gray lines. I'm running it in
> DrRacket (v6.12).
>
> I suspected that DrRacket was cropping the image in the interactions area so
> I did this:
>
> (overlay/align "middle" "middle" (rectangle 20 20 "outline" p1) (rectangle
> 40 40 "outline" p1))
>
> and sure enough, the inner rectangle appeared with all four sides having
> equal thickness, as shown in the example.
>
> The cropping of the image in DrRacket might not be obvious to the reader
> working along with the examples (even though that is, in essence, the
> subject of this section :-). Should something be put in the docs to clarify
> this? Perhaps add a snippet similar to what I created with the overlay/align
> function and mention that DrRacket will crop the outer rectangle in the
> interactions area? I know this seems to go against the 'writing style' used
> in the docs but I believe most users will be following along with DrRacket.
> Maybe a sidebar mention would be worthwhile to avoid initial confusion?
>
> Regards,
> Stephen.
>
>
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Re: [racket-users] Profiling places

2018-03-28 Thread Vincent St-Amour
Thanks! I've commented there.

Vincent


On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 03:27:11 -0500,
'Paulo Matos' via Racket Users wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 28/03/18 10:23, 'Paulo Matos' via Racket Users wrote:
> > True, I can confirm that. I will open an issue on this. 
> 
> Done #2019.
> https://github.com/racket/racket/issues/2019
> 
> -- 
> Paulo Matos
> 
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[racket-users] Resubmitting PRs after build problems

2018-03-28 Thread Kieron Hardy
Hi all,

I have noticed that some recent PRs have failed the Travis CI build step
seemingly due to unrelated, perhaps infrastructure-y, problems. e.g. The PR
I submitted, via a Github edit that fixes a typo in a comment, failed the
tests on one target with a tcp-connect timeout error (errno=60).

Of course, only PRs that pass the build will be reviewed by others and then
possibly merged into the Racket source proper. And so, using the Github web
interface, I looked in vain for some option to "re-build" my stalled PR,
ending up accidentally closing the PR. When I reopened and resubmitted the
PR, the build proceeded and completed successfully (and the PR was then
merged, thanks Vincent).

Is there a better procedure (other than close/open/resubmit PR) to redo a
build that failed?

Is there some way to get a "build failed" message automatically sent to the
PR submitter? I only noticed that my PR's build had failed by looking on
Github manually, a step that others may not think to perform; I did a quick
look at some of the other PRs with build failures and see several with
similar issues to mine.

Cheers,

Kieron.

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Re: [racket-users] Resubmitting PRs after build problems

2018-03-28 Thread Greg Hendershott
On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 11:32 AM Kieron Hardy 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I have noticed that some recent PRs have failed the Travis CI build step
> seemingly due to unrelated, perhaps infrastructure-y, problems. e.g. The PR
> I submitted, via a Github edit that fixes a typo in a comment, failed the
> tests on one target with a tcp-connect timeout error (errno=60).
>
> Of course, only PRs that pass the build will be reviewed by others and
> then possibly merged into the Racket source proper. And so, using the
> Github web interface, I looked in vain for some option to "re-build" my
> stalled PR, ending up accidentally closing the PR. When I reopened and
> resubmitted the PR, the build proceeded and completed successfully (and the
> PR was then merged, thanks Vincent).
>
> Is there a better procedure (other than close/open/resubmit PR) to redo a
> build that failed?
>

I don’t think you can if you lack rights on the repo. I’ve asked :) ...


https://stackoverflow.com/questions/17606874/trigger-a-travis-ci-rebuild-without-pushing-a-commit


> Is there some way to get a "build failed" message automatically sent to
> the PR submitter? I only noticed that my PR's build had failed by looking
> on Github manually, a step that others may not think to perform; I did a
> quick look at some of the other PRs with build failures and see several
> with similar issues to mine.
>

I mean, in theory you’d run tests locally before submitting the PR. But if
that’s impractical or for non-test build failures, I don’t know other than
opening the page on Travis and watching.

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Re: [racket-users] Resubmitting PRs after build problems

2018-03-28 Thread Sam Tobin-Hochstadt
If you make another commit to that PR, then it will rebuild. I'm not sure
how to do that from the web interface though.

Sam

On Wed, Mar 28, 2018, 11:32 AM Kieron Hardy  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I have noticed that some recent PRs have failed the Travis CI build step
> seemingly due to unrelated, perhaps infrastructure-y, problems. e.g. The PR
> I submitted, via a Github edit that fixes a typo in a comment, failed the
> tests on one target with a tcp-connect timeout error (errno=60).
>
> Of course, only PRs that pass the build will be reviewed by others and
> then possibly merged into the Racket source proper. And so, using the
> Github web interface, I looked in vain for some option to "re-build" my
> stalled PR, ending up accidentally closing the PR. When I reopened and
> resubmitted the PR, the build proceeded and completed successfully (and the
> PR was then merged, thanks Vincent).
>
> Is there a better procedure (other than close/open/resubmit PR) to redo a
> build that failed?
>
> Is there some way to get a "build failed" message automatically sent to
> the PR submitter? I only noticed that my PR's build had failed by looking
> on Github manually, a step that others may not think to perform; I did a
> quick look at some of the other PRs with build failures and see several
> with similar issues to mine.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kieron.
>
> --
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Re: [racket-users] error during prompt calculation: path->string: contract violation

2018-03-28 Thread Kieron Hardy
> An error report on the `enter!` problem would be welcome.
>
> >
> > D:\>racket
> > Welcome to Racket v6.12.
> > > (enter! "foo.rkt")
> > ; error during prompt calculation: path->string: contract violation
> >   expected: path?
> >   given: "d:\\foo.rkt"
> > [internal-error]>
>
>
Done: https://github.com/racket/racket/issues/20230 path->string: contract
violation when 'enter!' a file on Windows D: drive

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Re: [racket-users] error during prompt calculation: path->string: contract violation

2018-03-28 Thread Philip McGrath
The correct link seems to be https://github.com/racket/racket/issues/2023
(no final 0)

-Philip

On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 3:23 PM, Kieron Hardy 
wrote:

>
> An error report on the `enter!` problem would be welcome.
>>
>> >
>> > D:\>racket
>> > Welcome to Racket v6.12.
>> > > (enter! "foo.rkt")
>> > ; error during prompt calculation: path->string: contract violation
>> >   expected: path?
>> >   given: "d:\\foo.rkt"
>> > [internal-error]>
>>
>>
> Done: https://github.com/racket/racket/issues/20230 path->string:
> contract violation when 'enter!' a file on Windows D: drive
>
>
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[racket-users] Re: compile-zo: date for newly created .zo file ... is before source-file date ... which appears to be in the future

2018-03-28 Thread Greg Trzeciak
I was too quick with the success update - although I was able to install 
some packages that were failing before, the problem is not resolved for 
other packages - I have just tested "syndicate" package - exactly the same 
error.

In the offline conversation with Kieran Hardy we briefly discussed some 
edge-case possibility: I can't be certain it is the case but I don't recall 
having the problem before the Weekend and it was the Weekend with a Summer 
time switch in my time zone -> UTC+1 + 1 (Daylight Saving Time).

>From the time of the fresh install I only managed to install 2 packages 
that previously failed: pop-pl and pollen-count and test them + install 
syndicate that failed, no other Racket activity today.

Any ideas?

G.

On Wednesday, March 28, 2018 at 1:03:29 PM UTC+2, Greg Trzeciak wrote:
>
> Quick update - doing a fresh install of Racket solved the problem on my 
> machine, an interesting case nevertheless.
>
> On Wednesday, March 28, 2018 at 1:07:14 AM UTC+2, Greg Trzeciak wrote:
>>
>> Forgot to mention - my setup is: Racket 6.12 on Windows 10... could be 
>> some recent Windows update?
>>
>

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Re: [racket-users] Re: compile-zo: date for newly created .zo file ... is before source-file date ... which appears to be in the future

2018-03-28 Thread Philip McGrath
I don't really know, but a few thoughts:

   - I'm very suspicious about the daylight savings time possibility. Would
   you be comfortable sharing your specific timezone?
   - It might be helpful to see the results of
   file-or-directory-modify-seconds
   

   for the source and .zo files.
   - Have you checked what your OS thinks about these modification times
   compared to your system time? When you create other files, does it mark
   them with the correct creation time?
   - What happens if you try to compile a module outside of a
   package/collection, perhaps via raco make or the compiler/compiler
   
   library?
   - You could see if manually setting the source file's modification time
   to something, say, a day in the past could trick it into working.



-Philip

On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 4:30 PM, Greg Trzeciak  wrote:

> I was too quick with the success update - although I was able to install
> some packages that were failing before, the problem is not resolved for
> other packages - I have just tested "syndicate" package - exactly the same
> error.
>
> In the offline conversation with Kieran Hardy we briefly discussed some
> edge-case possibility: I can't be certain it is the case but I don't recall
> having the problem before the Weekend and it was the Weekend with a Summer
> time switch in my time zone -> UTC+1 + 1 (Daylight Saving Time).
>
> From the time of the fresh install I only managed to install 2 packages
> that previously failed: pop-pl and pollen-count and test them + install
> syndicate that failed, no other Racket activity today.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> G.
>
>
> On Wednesday, March 28, 2018 at 1:03:29 PM UTC+2, Greg Trzeciak wrote:
>>
>> Quick update - doing a fresh install of Racket solved the problem on my
>> machine, an interesting case nevertheless.
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 28, 2018 at 1:07:14 AM UTC+2, Greg Trzeciak wrote:
>>>
>>> Forgot to mention - my setup is: Racket 6.12 on Windows 10... could be
>>> some recent Windows update?
>>>
>> --
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Re: [racket-users] Re: compile-zo: date for newly created .zo file ... is before source-file date ... which appears to be in the future

2018-03-28 Thread Greg Trzeciak
Thanks Philip for these ideas, I won't be able to test all the suggestions 
today (due to time zone ;) but here is what I got so far:
* My timezone is for Warsaw, Poland
* When I create a file it is added with a correct timestamp but "raco pkg" 
downloads it and saves with + 1 hour timestamp. When running raco make on 
these files it brings the compile-zo error but when I wait 1 hour it 
compiles them just fine.

So it seems the problem is not during compilation (that was my first 
thought) but with "raco pkg" which saves the files from git repos with a 
future date! 
Now the question is why, how and what to do to fix it?

Thanks for getting me a bit closer to the answer!


On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 12:18:51 AM UTC+2, Philip McGrath wrote:
>
> I don't really know, but a few thoughts:
>
>- I'm very suspicious about the daylight savings time possibility. 
>Would you be comfortable sharing your specific timezone?
>- It might be helpful to see the results of 
>file-or-directory-modify-seconds 
>
> 
>  
>for the source and .zo files.
>- Have you checked what your OS thinks about these modification times 
>compared to your system time? When you create other files, does it mark 
>them with the correct creation time?
>- What happens if you try to compile a module outside of a 
>package/collection, perhaps via raco make or the compiler/compiler 
>
>  
>library?
>- You could see if manually setting the source file's modification 
>time to something, say, a day in the past could trick it into working.
>
>
>
> -Philip
>
> On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 4:30 PM, Greg Trzeciak  > wrote:
>
>> I was too quick with the success update - although I was able to install 
>> some packages that were failing before, the problem is not resolved for 
>> other packages - I have just tested "syndicate" package - exactly the same 
>> error.
>>
>> In the offline conversation with Kieran Hardy we briefly discussed some 
>> edge-case possibility: I can't be certain it is the case but I don't recall 
>> having the problem before the Weekend and it was the Weekend with a Summer 
>> time switch in my time zone -> UTC+1 + 1 (Daylight Saving Time).
>>
>> From the time of the fresh install I only managed to install 2 packages 
>> that previously failed: pop-pl and pollen-count and test them + install 
>> syndicate that failed, no other Racket activity today.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>> G.
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 28, 2018 at 1:03:29 PM UTC+2, Greg Trzeciak wrote:
>>>
>>> Quick update - doing a fresh install of Racket solved the problem on my 
>>> machine, an interesting case nevertheless.
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, March 28, 2018 at 1:07:14 AM UTC+2, Greg Trzeciak wrote:

 Forgot to mention - my setup is: Racket 6.12 on Windows 10... could be 
 some recent Windows update?

>>> -- 
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>
>

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Re: [racket-users] Behavior of nested ellipses

2018-03-28 Thread Justin Pombrio
> I don’t see why one is better than the other. 

I was surprised that the ellipsis which 'x' varies over changes between the 
pattern and the template. But it looks like no one else has the same 
intuition, so it's fine :-).

> Yes. See this part of the documentation of `syntax`: 

That's clear, thanks. I should have looked that up before asking.

On Wednesday, March 28, 2018 at 7:59:42 AM UTC-4, Matthew Flatt wrote:
>
> Just to answer some parts of the original question: 
>
> At Tue, 27 Mar 2018 13:01:54 -0700 (PDT), Justin Pombrio wrote: 
> > I'm surprised by the behavior of using a pattern variable under one set 
> of 
> > ellipses in the pattern, and under two sets of ellipses in the template: 
> > [...] 
> > Is this the expected behavior? 
>
> Yes. See this part of the documentation of `syntax`: 
>
>  If a pattern variable is replicated by more es in a template 
>  than the depth marker of its binding, then the pattern variable’s 
>  result is determined normally for inner es (up to the 
>  binding’s depth marker), and then the result is replicated as 
>  necessary to satisfy outer es. 
>
>
> > And is there a good reason for it? 
>
> If I remember correctly, I implemented a different behavior first, but 
> switched to be consistent with the `syntax-case` implementation. I also 
> vaguely remember that the switch made things work better. That was a 
> long time ago, though, so I may not remember correctly. 
>
>

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Re: [racket-users] Re: compile-zo: date for newly created .zo file ... is before source-file date ... which appears to be in the future

2018-03-28 Thread Greg Trzeciak
Before I disappear for today - some additional observations + current hack 
if anyone has the same problem:
* folders have correct timestamps
* dependencies downloaded in the same run can have their timestamp even +2h 
into the future.
* install directly from git has the same problem -> "raco pkg install 
https://github.com/some-user/new-package.git"; has timestamp +1h or +2h into 
the future
* current workaround (so that I can use Racket at all) is:
  - "raco pkg install new-package" -> edit all downloaded files to save 
with current timestamp OR simply wait 2h (possibly longer) -> run "raco 
setup new-package"

G.


On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 12:59:12 AM UTC+2, Greg Trzeciak wrote:
>
> Thanks Philip for these ideas, I won't be able to test all the suggestions 
> today (due to time zone ;) but here is what I got so far:
> * My timezone is for Warsaw, Poland
> * When I create a file it is added with a correct timestamp but "raco pkg" 
> downloads it and saves with + 1 hour timestamp. When running raco make on 
> these files it brings the compile-zo error but when I wait 1 hour it 
> compiles them just fine.
>
> So it seems the problem is not during compilation (that was my first 
> thought) but with "raco pkg" which saves the files from git repos with a 
> future date! 
> Now the question is why, how and what to do to fix it?
>
> Thanks for getting me a bit closer to the answer!
>
>>
>>

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[racket-users] (eighth RacketCon) is St. Louis in September 2018

2018-03-28 Thread Jay McCarthy
Prepare yourselves!

(eighth RacketCon) is St. Louis in September 2018!

http://con.racket-lang.org

co-located with ICFP and Strange Loop!

--

At this point, you can book your hotel room (get them fast!) and let
me know what you plan on presenting!

Jay

-- 
-=[ Jay McCarthy   http://jeapostrophe.github.io]=-
-=[ Associate ProfessorPLT @ CS @ UMass Lowell ]=-
-=[ Moses 1:33: And worlds without number have I created; ]=-

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[racket-users] Embedding image files in a executable file

2018-03-28 Thread 若草春男
Hi, everyone.

I'm making a simple game. I want to embed some image files in ONLY-ONE 
executable file.
I need it for a simple distribution.

Do you think that it displays the error message "no image files" when you 
execute the application?

For example,

[image.rkt]
#lang racket
(provide foo-image)
(define foo-image [ [Insert] - [Insert Image...] in DrRacket ])

[tmp.rkt]
#lang racket
(require "image.rkt")

The error message like the follows occurs when I run tmp.rkt:

write: cannot marshal value that is embedded in compiled code
value: (object:image-snip% ...)

Thanks,
Haruo Wakakusa

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[racket-users] Re: Embedding image files in a executable file

2018-03-28 Thread 若草春男
It fails the following case, too:

[foo.rkt]
#lang racket
(require 2htdp/universe)
(define foo-image [ [Insert] - [Insert Image...] in DrRacket ])
(void
  (big-bang 0
(on-draw (lambda (s) foo-image

The file "foo.rkt" is runnable.
But, the compiled executable "foo.exe" displays the following error message:

write: cannot marshal value that is embedded in compiled code
  value: (object:image-snip% ...)

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