Well, if you saw me in one of those wicked stretchy, neon-rainbow-
colored, advert-festooned synthetic jerseys, you'd be thinking...
catastrophic failure!
As for the steel v carbon thing... it's much, much simpler. Forget
about catastrophic failure, fatigue, and all that rocket science
stuff. It
On Mar 8, 10:43 am, Buck ahurv...@gmail.com wrote:
But... if you ride carbon and dress the part,
carbon passing carbon is always a competitive event. You can't not be
about going faster. You can't relax. You don't notice stuff along the
way. The first time I rode my Atlantis on my favorite
On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:42 AM, Patrick in VT psh...@drm.com wrote:
On Mar 8, 10:43 am, Buck ahurv...@gmail.com wrote:
But... if you ride carbon and dress the part,
carbon passing carbon is always a competitive event. You can't not be
about going faster. You can't relax. You don't notice
You're right. When I reread my post it was too nasty. More a reaction
to where I'd been and where I am. I'm actually a very competitive
person, just not on a bike any more. So thanks for calling me on it,
But I do think the steel v carbon is less about physics and
fundamentally a mindset. If you
On Mar 8, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Buck wrote:
well... it reminded me that before I bought my Atlantis, I had a
Lemond (steel with a carbon fork) and that was more or less how I
rode. It wasn't comfortable. It was all about the cyclocomputer. And
riding was more of a competitive event that just plain
This is pretty fun reaction to the go-fast mindset:
http://slowbikes.org/index.php
On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 5:21 PM, Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.net wrote:
On Mar 8, 2010, at 9:43 AM, Buck wrote:
well... it reminded me that before I bought my Atlantis, I had a
Lemond (steel with a carbon
On Mar 6, 9:41 am, Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.net wrote:
On Mar 6, 2010, at 10:22 AM, bfd wrote:
Grant's pointing out the problems with carbon doesn't strike me as desperate,
it
strikes me as concerned about people's safety.
OK, maybe I wasn't clear, I was only talking about carbon
I have a synthetic jersey and it keeps me warm. Everybody I know uses
synthetic jersies. They have never failed, even the zippers! Why is Grant
going on and on about wool and disparaging synthetic jersies. Tom Ritchey
uses synthetic jersies. So does Gary Fisher. They both know a thing or two
On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 8:36 AM, cyclotourist cyclotour...@gmail.com wrote:
I have a synthetic jersey and it keeps me warm. Everybody I know uses
synthetic jersies. They have never failed, even the zippers! Why is Grant
going on and on about wool and disparaging synthetic jersies. Tom
I think the crux of the issue is not how long a carbon frame can
last- of course there are old carbon frames out there, being ridden
today.
I think the point is that EVERYTHING fails eventually under sufficient
stress- the million dollar question being, when something does fail,
how does it do
. Materials don't deserve benefit of the
doubt, while people often do.
-Jim W.
-Original Message-
From: Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.net
Sent: Mar 6, 2010 12:41 PM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Re: Carboon Bashing- was: Riv resurrecting and selling
crashed
I just read Grant's reply to the carbon bashing bashing thread and I was
heartened to learn that (1) he bashes -- the quotation marks to indicate
that this word is used very provisionally -- carbon out of a sense of duty
and (2) almost even more so, that he has little interest in pushing the
I should add to my thoughts that I myself have experienced sudden failure on
a steel steerer tube, and this on a new frameset (NOS -- 531c Orbit tandem
-- bad material for a neophyte tandem couple, all question of overheating
aside!; fortunately no serious injury). But again, there was no such
a material. Materials don't deserve benefit of the
doubt, while people often do.
-Jim W.
-Original Message-
From: Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.net
Sent: Mar 6, 2010 12:41 PM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Re: Carboon Bashing- was: Riv resurrecting
On Mar 7, 2010, at 10:12 AM, PATRICK MOORE wrote:
One thing is undeniable: there was no such widespread scuttlebutt
about steel, titanium or aluminum forks and frames breaking; for
whatever reason, the volume rather signifcantly increased only when
carbon fiber became common in the bike
It does worry me a bit that we're starting to discuss carbon fiber on this
list. But, it has been specifically related to Riv/Grant topics, so I am
wont to say it's outside the fence. But, it's leaning against it, eh?
It seems to me that the overarching issue is that carbon is filtering down
to
On Mar 7, 8:12 am, PATRICK MOORE bertin...@gmail.com wrote:
I just read Grant's reply to the carbon bashing bashing thread and I was
heartened to learn that (1) he bashes -- the quotation marks to indicate
that this word is used very provisionally -- carbon out of a sense of duty
and (2)
I don't think anybody suggests that EVERY carbon frame or fork will fail in
the next XX years. In fact, probably a TINY fraction of a percent MIGHT.
I also don't think that EVERY Toyota on the road is going to accelerate
unexpectedly and uncontrollably within the next XX years either.
The point
Very good point. It up to each of us to evaluate the risk versus the
reward and make a decision for ourselves. If, in fact, carbon is less
forgiving than steel, which I believe, then I thank GP for making me
aware of this information. Don't shoot the messenger of bad news.
On Mar 7, 12:13 pm,
I just looked at Grant's carbon bashing piece on the RBW website and
appended to the end of the original post is a letter from a mechanical
engineer who claims to have great familiarity with carbon materials,
and it is well written and sensible:
Letter from Joe Thomas.
I read your thoughts on
On Mar 6, 9:41 am, Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.net wrote:
On Mar 6, 2010, at 10:22 AM, bfd wrote:
I know many here will disagree with me, but I'm tired of Grant's
constant carbon bashing. What he doesn't mention is that carbon frames
can be repaired. Craig Calfee repairs carbon fiber
I think it is pretty common sense for the builder of a certain thing
to explain why they built it the way they did and not the way someone
else did. So if you make steel bikes because you think they are the
best, it has to be true that you think something else is not the best.
And on that
Sure, there were examples. I got a warning from LLBean years after I bought
a rebranded Cannondate sport tourer from them warning me of cracking, and I
personally know of 3 good quality steel frames or forks breaking, either
suddenly or gradually. But there wasn't the volume of talk about it as
On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 12:57 PM, PATRICK MOORE bertin...@gmail.com wrote:
nd yes the navy makes nuclear shields for aircraft carriers out of the
stuff,
Sorry for the mispelling. I meant, of course, nucular.
Patrick no g-d emoticons in *this* family Moore
--
You received this message
On Mar 7, 2010, at 11:11 AM, bfd wrote:
However, it seems that a man of his insight, connections and knowledge
would be able to distinguish between a FORK and a FRAME. Carbon frames
build by good builders like Calfee, Crumpton, Parlee and Serotta, to
name a few, don't seem to break just riding
On Mar 7, 2010, at 1:15 PM, Phil Brown wrote:
On Mar 6, 9:41 am, Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.net wrote:
On Mar 6, 2010, at 10:22 AM, bfd wrote:
I know many here will disagree with me, but I'm tired of Grant's
constant carbon bashing. What he doesn't mention is that carbon
frames
can be
On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.net wrote:
Aluminum alloys fall in between and are worth inspecting, especially cranks
at the pedal eye, handlebars/stems and rim braking surfaces.
I wonder: if all the research and attention and money had gone into updating
those
Better:
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3561856/2007/11/14/thin_french_cranks.jpg
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3561856/2007/11/10/chrome_french_cranks.jpg
http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/bikes/jrj-rb1.jpg
I don't think the manufacturers of carbon bikes are saying that they
are safer, they are saying that they are lighter. Grant agrees that
they are lighter, they are just less safe. So the user has to decide
whether the increased risk of injury justifies the benefits from the
reduced weight of the
On Mar 7, 2010, at 1:57 PM, PATRICK MOORE wrote:
And, to put another red herring to sleep: yes, of course, you can
make a cf anything stronger than any steel frame out there, and yes
the navy makes nuclear shields for aircraft carriers out of the
stuff, but that, as someone wisely pointed
On Mar 7, 2010, at 2:36 PM, PATRICK MOORE wrote:
On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 1:26 PM, Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.net
wrote:
Aluminum alloys fall in between and are worth inspecting,
especially cranks at the pedal eye, handlebars/stems and rim
braking surfaces.
I wonder: if all the
On Mar 7, 2010, at 1:44 PM, cm wrote:
I think it is pretty common sense for the builder of a certain thing
to explain why they built it the way they did and not the way someone
else did. So if you make steel bikes because you think they are the
best, it has to be true that you think something
On Mar 6, 2010, at 10:22 AM, bfd wrote:
I know many here will disagree with me, but I'm tired of Grant's
constant carbon bashing. What he doesn't mention is that carbon frames
can be repaired. Craig Calfee repairs carbon fiber frames and does a
fantastic job.
Unfortunately many carbon
of the doubt, while
people often do.
-Jim W.
-Original Message-
From: Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.net
Sent: Mar 6, 2010 12:41 PM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Re: Carboon Bashing- was: Riv resurrecting and selling crashed
frames
On Mar 6, 2010, at 10:22 AM, bfd
-
From: Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.net
Sent: Mar 6, 2010 12:41 PM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Re: Carboon Bashing- was: Riv resurrecting and selling
crashed frames
On Mar 6, 2010, at 10:22 AM, bfd wrote:
I know many here will disagree with me, but I'm tired
.
-Original Message-
From: Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.net
Sent: Mar 6, 2010 12:41 PM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Re: Carboon Bashing- was: Riv resurrecting and selling
crashed frames
On Mar 6, 2010, at 10:22 AM, bfd wrote:
I know many
, while people often do.
-Jim W.
-Original Message-
From: Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.net
Sent: Mar 6, 2010 12:41 PM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Re: Carboon Bashing- was: Riv resurrecting and selling
crashed frames
On Mar 6, 2010, at 10:22 AM
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