[RBW] Re: RBW Business Model

[Corwin]

Hi Michael -

I mean no disrespect.

Here's my take on the RBW Business Model:

In 2004, when I came to try and buy one of the original [Coleman green] 
Quickbeams, Mark said: "We'll treat you right". And everyone at Rivendell 
always has treated me right ever since. Miesha, Sterling, Rich, Will, 
Keven, Vince, Roman, Dave, John, Robert, Jenny, Harry, Corey, Spencer, Mark 
and Grant (measured my PBH himself) have always put my interests ahead of 
their own. In my opinion, that is the VERY BEST BUSINESS MODEL possible. I 
have studied many, many businesses. The single unifying characteristic of a 
great business is a genuine, concerted focus on customer satisfaction.

In my opinion, there is no need to go anywhere else.

Namaste,


Corwin

On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 10:38:11 AM UTC-7, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> There is a major flaw in the RBW Business Model.  They forgot to include 
> planned obselence.  Really, how can you expect to grow a business when your 
> products not only don't wear out they don't even loose their sex appeal? 
>  Certainly Trek didn't make that mistake and see how they have grown since 
> 1983 when I bought a 620.
>
> Take my Saluki for example.  Serial # SA 00011.  I am more in love with it 
> today than when I first got it.  Why would I want to buy a new bike? 
>  Bicycle Quarterly comes in and I look at the reviews of all the hot new 
> bikes and quickly realize I wouldn't trade em straight up for my Saluki.
>
> OK, it now has a lot of touch up paint and I would probably get it powder 
> coated if I could get my hands on some original decals, but the ride is 
> just as joyful, no even better than new, and she still looks pretty good to 
> me.  Instead of buying a new bike I can spend my money on fancy brakes, 
> levers, tires from Compass, and TA Rings ("Well honey the rings were worn 
> out and that's just what new rings cost.")
>
> So Rivendell, instead of pushing a needed replacement or a new improved 
> model, is stuck with the job of convincing people that they need more 
> bikes. Then you have to listen to your spouse - how you gonna pay for it, 
> where you gonna store it, how many bikes can you ride?  It never ends.
>
> Unfortunately for Rivendell, my wife is still in love with her Betty Foy, 
> so no bike sale this year.
>
> Michael
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Hunqapillar vs Appaloosa ride quality?

[Joe Bernard]

There's also the matter of looks, color, name and maybe just wanting to try 
something different. It's a thing!  

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[RBW] Re: Shoe recommendations for wet fall

[Andrew Turner]

I'll look into some water shoes. With boiled wool socks, even walking 
through water, my feet will stay warm albeit wet. 
On Wednesday, July 22, 2020 at 11:35:30 PM UTC-5 masmojo wrote:

> That tricky. because the temperature range is still quite cool. Just above 
> freezing the still freezing, if it's wet and it's windy or you are moving 
> through the air, due to evaporative cooling. Up to about 45 to 50 degrees 
> it would still be imperative to keep your feet dry! On up to at least 65 
> I'd prefer to stay dry. To that end I am not sure what to say? Probably 
> some sort of shoe cover?
> I have a pair of water shoes that I wear when it's not quite sandle 
> weather.

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[RBW] Re: Hunqapillar vs Appaloosa ride quality?

[masmojo]

Well it is a smaller frame likely doesn't have the double top tube so it should 
feel lighter. The longer chainstays do give the bike a springy feel.
That's the magic of Rivendell!

It kinda reminds me of a friend of mine many years ago who worked in a high end 
stero store, when I asked him about Bose speakers, he said "did you ever notice 
how Bose doesn't list the frequency response of their speakers" mainly because 
they really did concentrate on frequency response, but the overall balance of 
the sound. Most people find extreme highs irritating and don't care much about 
extreme lows.

All modern Rivendells are about balance, not the highs and lows! It's a product 
that is so unto itself that it defies comparison to anything else.

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[RBW] Re: FS: Bikes on eBay, CraigsLIst, and Other Sites

[Scott Calhoun]

I also ride a 64cm QB. My saddle height is 81.5cm and I’m 6’2.5” tall. It is on 
the big side when compared to some of my racy frames but fits great and I love 
the ride.

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[RBW] Re: Shoe recommendations for wet fall

[masmojo]

That tricky. because the temperature range is still quite cool. Just above 
freezing the still freezing, if it's wet and it's windy or you are moving 
through the air, due to evaporative cooling. Up to about 45 to 50 degrees it 
would still be imperative to keep your feet dry! On up to at least 65 I'd 
prefer to stay dry. To that end I am not sure what to say? Probably some sort 
of shoe cover?
I have a pair of water shoes that I wear when it's not quite sandle weather.

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[RBW] BUMP: FS: Size 58 c-c with 56.5 or 57 cm tt 2003 Curt Goodrich-built, Dave Porter and Chauncey Matthews-modified 26" wheel Rivendell Road fixed gear custom road bike

[Philip Williamson]

That seems like a reasonable price just to hang on the wall as art. Plus it has 
history as an OG iBOB bike. If we had a museum, this would be in it, with 
pictures of Patrick’s other bikes. 

Philip
Santa Rosa, CA 

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[RBW] Re: Shoe recommendations for wet fall

[Andrew Turner]

Thanks for the links! You actually turned me to Dachstein socks a couple 
years ago and they're simply the best. Unfortunately, one of our dogs got a 
hold of one so I need to replace them before winter. Our weather here in TN 
is nothing compared to your neck of the woods, snow comes once a year if 
we're lucky! The temperature range I'm struggling with is that 35-55°F. A 
thinner ply Dachstein sock will likely solve the warmth factor. Now it's 
just what shoe dries quickly. 

Thank you Deacon Patrick! 
Andrew 
On Wednesday, July 22, 2020 at 9:32:31 PM UTC-5 Deacon Patrick wrote:

> Sorry, I meant to ask also, what temps you're talking about? I find the 
> trickiest weather to ride, rest, and then ride again in is wet and 25 to 
> 55. Below that, and staying dry is easy, above that and staying warm is 
> easy, even when wet. If you haven't tried fish net long johns for this temp 
> range, they really make it easy. Brynje is the best I've found. Depending 
> on conditions I'll layer up to: fish net top, cotton flannel shirt, 
> Hilltrek ventile jacket (well, cotton analogy). If I'm stopped, I'll add a 
> boiled wool sweater to that if needed, under or instead of the ventile.
>
> This ride was wet and likely 20-25˚F. 
> https://deaconpatrick.org/june-snow-callooh-callay. Even though I sweat 
> riding up, the mid-weight boiled wool sweater breaths perfectly and sheds 
> the snow from tree branches and sky, then keeps my warm while I sit for a 
> pipe and coffee, all with the fishnet as a base layer on top. For winter, I 
> have the heavier boiled wool sweater.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>

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[RBW] Re: Shoe recommendations for wet fall

['Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Sorry, I meant to ask also, what temps you're talking about? I find the 
trickiest weather to ride, rest, and then ride again in is wet and 25 to 
55. Below that, and staying dry is easy, above that and staying warm is 
easy, even when wet. If you haven't tried fish net long johns for this temp 
range, they really make it easy. Brynje is the best I've found. Depending 
on conditions I'll layer up to: fish net top, cotton flannel shirt, 
Hilltrek ventile jacket (well, cotton analogy). If I'm stopped, I'll add a 
boiled wool sweater to that if needed, under or instead of the ventile.

This ride was wet and likely 20-25˚F. 
https://deaconpatrick.org/june-snow-callooh-callay. Even though I sweat 
riding up, the mid-weight boiled wool sweater breaths perfectly and sheds 
the snow from tree branches and sky, then keeps my warm while I sit for a 
pipe and coffee, all with the fishnet as a base layer on top. For winter, I 
have the heavier boiled wool sweater.

With abandon,
Patrick

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[RBW] Re: Shoe recommendations for wet fall

['Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Boiled wool socks, at which point nearly any shoe you like will work great. 
I like Vivo barefoot's Ra II. I ride with a leather sole as an insert to 
emulate a stiffer soled cycling shoe. I recommend Dachstein boiled wool. 
Here are their socks: 
https://www.sweaterchalet.com/dachstein-woolwear-boiled-wool-sweaters-mitts-socks-caps-gloves/

With abandon,
Patrick

On Wednesday, July 22, 2020 at 7:36:34 PM UTC-6, Andrew Turner wrote:
>
> *TL;DR: Looking for a shoe that'll last a long time during the rainy 
> seasons or when water in your shoes is inevitable. *
>
> My rides usually include a couple creek crossings and come the rainy 
> seasons, I'm guaranteed to get wet feet. 
>
> Summer's covered with bedrock sandals. Winter's covered in that I avoid 
> getting wet on top of cold at all cost. But does anyone have any 
> recommendations for spring/fall wet-condition riding shoes? 
>
> I usually ride sambas but man does water quickly wreck them...not to 
> mention the god-awful squishy feeling when water's down in there that 
> simply doesn't go away. Other thoughts are some sort of camp moc. Might 
> still be squishy but my hunch is the leather will last a lot longer than 
> typical synthetic shoe materials. Or heck are water shoes a thing among 
> cyclists? 
>
> Happy to hear any recommendations, and if it's simply a 'deal with it' 
> situation, that's fine too. 
>
> - Andrew
>

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Re: [RBW] HHH ride report

['Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Looks gorgeous! Someone from England would probably love to go here on vacation.

What kind of snake is that!?

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 

> On Jul 22, 2020, at 6:52 PM, Julian Westerhout  wrote:
> 
> COVID canceled our plan to tour in the UK on our Bilenky tandem this summer, 
> so in partial compensation today we went for a day ride on the Illinois and 
> Michigan Canal from Lasalle to Marseilles, Il and back on our Rivendell HHH 
> -- about 45 miles. Nice ride, even if the path is very poorly maintained in 
> places -- between Utica and Ottawa the path got rougher and rougher, then 
> there was a missing bridge which required us to take the tandem down a muddy 
> bank and wheel it across an 18" wide bridge some kind sole threw together 
> from some old lumber. We then had to navigate a long section of limestone mud 
> with running water -- fun! We ate lunch at Tangled Roots brew pub in Ottawa, 
> IL (Yum!) and avoided the worst stretches of the path on the return by taking 
> the road for 5 miles. A good day out... even if it isn't quite Cornwall, the 
> British Peak District or Scotland!
> 
> Photos here https://flic.kr/s/aHsmPzWJoy   sine Google Groups tells me i 
> can't upload them into the message for some reason. 
> 
> Julian Westerhout
> Bloomington, IL 
> 
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>  
> .

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[RBW] HHH ride report

[Julian Westerhout]

COVID canceled our plan to tour in the UK on our Bilenky tandem this 
summer, so in partial compensation today we went for a day ride on the 
Illinois and Michigan Canal from Lasalle to Marseilles, Il and back on our 
Rivendell HHH -- about 45 miles. Nice ride, even if the path is very poorly 
maintained in places -- between Utica and Ottawa the path got rougher and 
rougher, then there was a missing bridge which required us to take the 
tandem down a muddy bank and wheel it across an 18" wide bridge some kind 
sole threw together from some old lumber. We then had to navigate a long 
section of limestone mud with running water -- fun! We ate lunch at Tangled 
Roots brew pub in Ottawa, IL (Yum!) and avoided the worst stretches of the 
path on the return by taking the road for 5 miles. A good day out... even 
if it isn't quite Cornwall, the British Peak District or Scotland!

Photos here https://flic.kr/s/aHsmPzWJoy   sine Google Groups tells me i 
can't upload them into the message for some reason. 

Julian Westerhout
Bloomington, IL 

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[RBW] WTB 69/71cm A. Homer Hilsen

['Abcyclehank' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Kai-
I am all out of Jumbo Homer Holden’s but have a 68cm Bombadil I would love for 
you to take off my hands.  Also have a 73cm Nobilette Custom country bike but 
it only takes up to 33mm tires, Campy drivetrain, cantilevered brakes.
You know how to contact me if interested in either.
Sincerely,
Ryan Hankinson 
West Michigan

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[RBW] Shoe recommendations for wet fall

[Andrew Turner]

*TL;DR: Looking for a shoe that'll last a long time during the rainy 
seasons or when water in your shoes is inevitable. *

My rides usually include a couple creek crossings and come the rainy 
seasons, I'm guaranteed to get wet feet. 

Summer's covered with bedrock sandals. Winter's covered in that I avoid 
getting wet on top of cold at all cost. But does anyone have any 
recommendations for spring/fall wet-condition riding shoes? 

I usually ride sambas but man does water quickly wreck them...not to 
mention the god-awful squishy feeling when water's down in there that 
simply doesn't go away. Other thoughts are some sort of camp moc. Might 
still be squishy but my hunch is the leather will last a lot longer than 
typical synthetic shoe materials. Or heck are water shoes a thing among 
cyclists? 

Happy to hear any recommendations, and if it's simply a 'deal with it' 
situation, that's fine too. 

- Andrew

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[RBW] Re: FS: Bikes on eBay, CraigsLIst, and Other Sites

[Bones]

Very helpful, thank you very much. My Rivs are more recent and have sloping top 
tubes. I assumed I could go larger with a level top tube.

Regards,
Bones

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[RBW] Re: RBW Business Model

[Joe Bernard]

All I need for a reason to try a new Rivendell is "I want to try that one." 

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[RBW] Re: RBW Business Model

[Michael Hechmer]

Doug, you have put your finger on the problem exactly.  Yes, chainstays 
have gotten longer, tire clearance wider (than 52!) and geometries have 
been tweeked, but as you ask:

 "what would I want that my Atlantis doesn't do?" and have never come up 
with a good answer. "

What we poor humans face is a situation where the ego wants wanting more 
than it wants having.  As soon as we have what we want, we start wanting 
something else.  Shiny objects abound!

To be clear,  RBW has brought forth a great many innovative products in the 
past 30 years and new bike buyers are getting great value for their money, 
especially because these bikes will still be a joy to ride in 2040.  I wish 
GP blessings and am so glad we own three of his creations.  That said, I 
can't come up with even half a reason to replace the Ramboulliet, Saluki, 
or Betty Foy in my garage.

Just Ride,
Michael



On Wednesday, July 22, 2020 at 6:52:21 PM UTC-4, dougP wrote:
>
> Michael:
>
> In rebuttal, I'd like to point out how much the Rivendell model line-up 
> has evolved over the years.  When I bought my Atlantis in '03, there was 
> just a handful of models (don't recall the rest) and the Atlantis was the 
> most heavy duty and touring oriented.  In 25 years, Rivendell has gone from 
> a few, mostly road oriented bikes to a wide array.  Now, with the emphasis 
> on trail riding and load carrying, the tire clearances have grown (my 
> Atlantis is rated at 52mm max), chainstays have gotten longer, geometry has 
> evolved, etc.  This isn't really planned obsolescence but does expand the 
> model line up to appeal to a wider range of riders.  I've occasionally 
> mused on the question "what would I want that my Atlantis doesn't do?" and 
> have never come up with a good answer.  OTH, I was sorely tempted when I 
> test rode the current long wheel base version of the current iteration.  We 
> sometimes miss that even long playing models like the Atlantis have subtly 
> evolved over the years.  
>
> Just don't expect to see disc brakes or thru eyelets on forks.  :)
>
> dougP
>
> On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 10:38:11 AM UTC-7, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>>
>> There is a major flaw in the RBW Business Model.  They forgot to include 
>> planned obselence.  Really, how can you expect to grow a business when your 
>> products not only don't wear out they don't even loose their sex appeal? 
>>  Certainly Trek didn't make that mistake and see how they have grown since 
>> 1983 when I bought a 620.
>>
>> Take my Saluki for example.  Serial # SA 00011.  I am more in love with 
>> it today than when I first got it.  Why would I want to buy a new bike? 
>>  Bicycle Quarterly comes in and I look at the reviews of all the hot new 
>> bikes and quickly realize I wouldn't trade em straight up for my Saluki.
>>
>> OK, it now has a lot of touch up paint and I would probably get it powder 
>> coated if I could get my hands on some original decals, but the ride is 
>> just as joyful, no even better than new, and she still looks pretty good to 
>> me.  Instead of buying a new bike I can spend my money on fancy brakes, 
>> levers, tires from Compass, and TA Rings ("Well honey the rings were worn 
>> out and that's just what new rings cost.")
>>
>> So Rivendell, instead of pushing a needed replacement or a new improved 
>> model, is stuck with the job of convincing people that they need more 
>> bikes. Then you have to listen to your spouse - how you gonna pay for it, 
>> where you gonna store it, how many bikes can you ride?  It never ends.
>>
>> Unfortunately for Rivendell, my wife is still in love with her Betty Foy, 
>> so no bike sale this year.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] My New Old Sam Hillborne TT!

[☆ Paul ☆]

Ha!

Yes, I have a wholesale account, so I build up nice bicycles now and then for 
charity, and it sort of doubles the value of my giving since the bikes usually 
raise a lot of money. 

Also neighborhood kids help build the bikes and they learn, too.

❤️❤️❤️

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[RBW] WTB 69/71cm A. Homer Hilsen

[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

All these WTB's has me wondering if maybe there's one of these huge Homers out 
there for me. The less attractive the better (on furlough for at least another 
month) but want to talk to YOU about making this dream happen...
Thanks!
-Kai

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[RBW] Re: WTB: Sackville Banana Sax

[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

I've got a blue one I'm not using.
-Kai
kaivierstra 
At
gmail.com

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[RBW] My New Old Sam Hillborne TT!

[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

"Paul brakes & Paul seatpost, White hubs"
That's how you set it up for the charity auction? That's incredibly charitable 
of you! Very nice. My first Rivendell was a 64 twin toptubed Hillborne, it's 
the only one I sold (don't ever sell anything☹️)
Enjoy!
-Kai

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[RBW] Re: FS: Bikes on eBay, CraigsLIst, and Other Sites

[Bones]

Wow, I’ve been keeping my eye out for one of these. Anyone know the recommended 
saddle height for a 64 (mine is 80)?

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[RBW] Re: RBW Business Model

[dougP]

Michael:

In rebuttal, I'd like to point out how much the Rivendell model line-up has 
evolved over the years.  When I bought my Atlantis in '03, there was just a 
handful of models (don't recall the rest) and the Atlantis was the most 
heavy duty and touring oriented.  In 25 years, Rivendell has gone from a 
few, mostly road oriented bikes to a wide array.  Now, with the emphasis on 
trail riding and load carrying, the tire clearances have grown (my Atlantis 
is rated at 52mm max), chainstays have gotten longer, geometry has evolved, 
etc.  This isn't really planned obsolescence but does expand the model line 
up to appeal to a wider range of riders.  I've occasionally mused on the 
question "what would I want that my Atlantis doesn't do?" and have never 
come up with a good answer.  OTH, I was sorely tempted when I test rode the 
current long wheel base version of the current iteration.  We sometimes 
miss that even long playing models like the Atlantis have subtly evolved 
over the years.  

Just don't expect to see disc brakes or thru eyelets on forks.  :)

dougP

On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 10:38:11 AM UTC-7, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> There is a major flaw in the RBW Business Model.  They forgot to include 
> planned obselence.  Really, how can you expect to grow a business when your 
> products not only don't wear out they don't even loose their sex appeal? 
>  Certainly Trek didn't make that mistake and see how they have grown since 
> 1983 when I bought a 620.
>
> Take my Saluki for example.  Serial # SA 00011.  I am more in love with it 
> today than when I first got it.  Why would I want to buy a new bike? 
>  Bicycle Quarterly comes in and I look at the reviews of all the hot new 
> bikes and quickly realize I wouldn't trade em straight up for my Saluki.
>
> OK, it now has a lot of touch up paint and I would probably get it powder 
> coated if I could get my hands on some original decals, but the ride is 
> just as joyful, no even better than new, and she still looks pretty good to 
> me.  Instead of buying a new bike I can spend my money on fancy brakes, 
> levers, tires from Compass, and TA Rings ("Well honey the rings were worn 
> out and that's just what new rings cost.")
>
> So Rivendell, instead of pushing a needed replacement or a new improved 
> model, is stuck with the job of convincing people that they need more 
> bikes. Then you have to listen to your spouse - how you gonna pay for it, 
> where you gonna store it, how many bikes can you ride?  It never ends.
>
> Unfortunately for Rivendell, my wife is still in love with her Betty Foy, 
> so no bike sale this year.
>
> Michael
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Two Bike Fridays for Sale

[Lyman Labry]

You can google “how to measure Bike Fridays”.  A video will demonstrate.
Thanks!

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 5:32 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> That's correct. On a regular sloping-toptube or step-thru bike you would
> measure straight across from the seatpost through the headtube. You mimic
> that on a Bike Friday by measuring straight across from about the midpoint
> of the seat- and bar-mast.
>
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> .
>

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Re: [RBW] Two Bike Fridays for Sale

[Joe Bernard]

That's correct. On a regular sloping-toptube or step-thru bike you would 
measure straight across from the seatpost through the headtube. You mimic that 
on a Bike Friday by measuring straight across from about the midpoint of the 
seat- and bar-mast. 

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Re: [RBW] Two Bike Fridays for Sale

[Julian Westerhout]

Hello, 

Horizontally between the middle of the two vertical-ish tubes (a sort of 
top-tube length, but lower?)? That’s a very weird way to measure!  It is 
definitely a larger frame. Let me know if i’ve properly understood where to 
measure and i’ll do so. One of the photos has the deat tube withj a 
measuring tape. 

Julian. 

On Wednesday, July 22, 2020 at 3:23:18 PM UTC-5, Tirebiter ATX wrote:
>
> Nice bikes. The NWT is of interest to me. It must be a Large (58cm) at 
> least?  BF measures size from the center of stem riser to the center of 
> seat mast using a level.
> Thanks!
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 3:19 PM Julian Westerhout  > wrote:
>
>> For Sale — Two Bike Fridays. I am selling these on behalf of the owners — 
>> a couple of friends of mine who had plans to do lots of riding on these, 
>> but life intervened, and so they’ve mostly sat unused, and are pristine and 
>> loaded, ready to go make other riders very happy. Take a look at the photos 
>> — these bikes look brand new — I think they have at most a few hundred 
>> miles of use.
>>
>>
>> Bike #1:  New World Tourist — red, owner is 6’2” — bike will fit those 
>> from about 5’10 to about 6’3” with minimal to no adjustment.  Drivetrain is 
>> SRAM Dual drive 3 x 9. This is a 3-speed internal hub and a 9-speed rear 
>> derailleur setup that provides a very wide gearing range with a single 
>> front chainring. Note that the frame has a braze-on for a front derailleur, 
>> so if someone really wanted to they could make this a double or triple up 
>> front, too!   :)   Shimano Ultegra crankset with chainguard, Ultegra rear 
>> derailleur,  Deore XT V-brakes, Shimano dual-side pedals — platform on one 
>> side, SPD on the other. Chris King Headset, BF Split H handlebars. Two 
>> water bottle cages.  It has a Thomsen seat post with a Selle Anatomico 
>> Titanico saddle, a Detours rear back that clicks on and off of the seat 
>> post, a nylon carry bag for use on a bus or car, plus the suitcase that 
>> converts into a trailer — a really fantastic system. 
>>
>>
>> Bike # 2: Crusoe — blue — owner is 5’7”,  bike will fit those from about 
>> 5’4” to about 5’10” with minimal to no adjustment. Equipped almost 
>> identically to the NWT, but with a Terry butterfly saddle — plus a spare 
>> Schwalbe marathon tire. It has a Bike Planet cyclometer mounted, but the 
>> batteries are dead. One water bottle cage, with room for another. It also 
>> comes with a nylon carry bag as well as the suitcase system with trailer 
>> transformation ability. 
>>
>>
>> Photos of both bikes are at https://flic.kr/s/aHsmPyEavb
>>
>>
>> Asking $1600 each net plus shipping. Buy one or buy both! My friends want 
>> these to be used and loved. Let me know if you have any questions. 
>>
>>
>> Julian Westerhout
>>
>> Bloomington, IL 
>>
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com .
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/614b46ed-f996-4779-b903-097a6a989b8ao%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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[RBW] NOS Suntour hub question

[Joel Stern]

I hate to ask this but I have never used XCPro hubs.  What’s with the 
grease coming out of the sides?  I assume this is wiped away when being 
built up.  

Sorry for my being uninformed, always used Superbe and Cyclone before.  

Thanks 

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[RBW] Re: FS: Sackville happisack, light grey, barely used

[jamin orrall]

price drop to 180 shipped!

On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 11:04:00 PM UTC-7, jamin orrall wrote:
>
> Selling a "light grid grey" happisack.  I purchased it a while ago to 
> replace my Bagboy but I decided to stick with the smaller of the two.  The 
> bag is in almost new condition, see pictures.  Used for about 20 miles, one 
> trip to the store.  
>
> $195 shipped 
>
> Thanks!
> Jamin
> Los Angeles
>

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[RBW] WTB: 61cm Atlantis, short chainstay (TOYO, MUSA)

[Joshua Stacy]

Looking to buy a short chainstay 61cm Atlantis (TOYO, MUSA). I prefer the older 
style to the MIT geometry. I’m interested in a full bike or a frame set.

Thanks so much,
Joshua

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[RBW] Seeking 59 CM Clem H! Based in LA.

[C.McMann]

Hey I have a green one available in LA

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[RBW] Needing front rack advice

[Alex K]

I’m waiting on a Clem L 52 myself.  I bought a Nitto 34F Campee front rack with 
the express purpose of mounting it onto my Clem with a WALD 139 or 157 basket.  
So there’s one option.  Another large load-bearing option is the SURLY front 
rack.  Heavy, but can carry up to 70 LBS if needed.  Silva Cycles in San Jose, 
CA has an example of a Clem with a Surly front rack on their Instagram page.  
Really pretty build.  Will send a pic if I can figure out how on this thread.

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[RBW] Re: WTB: Sackville Banana Sax

[Doug H.]

My Banana Sack is my favorite bag. The shape is perfect and it holds more 
than you'd think based on its size.
Doug Hansford

On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 6:36:08 PM UTC-4, Hetchins52 wrote:
>
> Andrew took me up on my offer so mine is on its way to TN and no longer 
> available.
>
> David
>
> On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 10:46:28 AM UTC-7, Applegate wrote:
>>
>> I'm also interested, especially in blue and olive (did they ever make it 
>> in the darker "royal" color?), if there are any others out there!
>>
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Needing front rack advice

[Alex K]

IMG_9791.jpg

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Re: [RBW] Two Bike Fridays for Sale

[Lyman Labry]

Nice bikes. The NWT is of interest to me. It must be a Large (58cm) at
least?  BF measures size from the center of stem riser to the center of
seat mast using a level.
Thanks!

On Tue, Jul 21, 2020 at 3:19 PM Julian Westerhout 
wrote:

> For Sale — Two Bike Fridays. I am selling these on behalf of the owners —
> a couple of friends of mine who had plans to do lots of riding on these,
> but life intervened, and so they’ve mostly sat unused, and are pristine and
> loaded, ready to go make other riders very happy. Take a look at the photos
> — these bikes look brand new — I think they have at most a few hundred
> miles of use.
>
>
> Bike #1:  New World Tourist — red, owner is 6’2” — bike will fit those
> from about 5’10 to about 6’3” with minimal to no adjustment.  Drivetrain is
> SRAM Dual drive 3 x 9. This is a 3-speed internal hub and a 9-speed rear
> derailleur setup that provides a very wide gearing range with a single
> front chainring. Note that the frame has a braze-on for a front derailleur,
> so if someone really wanted to they could make this a double or triple up
> front, too!   :)   Shimano Ultegra crankset with chainguard, Ultegra rear
> derailleur,  Deore XT V-brakes, Shimano dual-side pedals — platform on one
> side, SPD on the other. Chris King Headset, BF Split H handlebars. Two
> water bottle cages.  It has a Thomsen seat post with a Selle Anatomico
> Titanico saddle, a Detours rear back that clicks on and off of the seat
> post, a nylon carry bag for use on a bus or car, plus the suitcase that
> converts into a trailer — a really fantastic system.
>
>
> Bike # 2: Crusoe — blue — owner is 5’7”,  bike will fit those from about
> 5’4” to about 5’10” with minimal to no adjustment. Equipped almost
> identically to the NWT, but with a Terry butterfly saddle — plus a spare
> Schwalbe marathon tire. It has a Bike Planet cyclometer mounted, but the
> batteries are dead. One water bottle cage, with room for another. It also
> comes with a nylon carry bag as well as the suitcase system with trailer
> transformation ability.
>
>
> Photos of both bikes are at https://flic.kr/s/aHsmPyEavb
>
>
> Asking $1600 each net plus shipping. Buy one or buy both! My friends want
> these to be used and loved. Let me know if you have any questions.
>
>
> Julian Westerhout
>
> Bloomington, IL
>
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> 
> .
>

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[RBW] Re: Hunqapillar vs Appaloosa ride quality?

['Gary L' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Hi Jeremy,

I've got a 58 Hunq and my wife has the 55 Appaloosa. I started this thread 
to see if anyone has experience with a larger Appaloosa because I was so 
surprised when I rode her App for about an hour how much livelier and 
supple it felt compared to my Hunq (one of the first generation grey/maroon 
ones). I thought maybe because it was a smaller frame?  But others that 
have responded seem to have felt the same thing. My Hunq is noticeably 
heavier and just FEELS heavier riding it compared to my wife's Appaloosa. I 
don't know about the tubes, but it sure seems that the Appaloosa either has 
lighter tubes or the longer chain stays contribute to the significantly 
different feel. A clydesdale vs a gazelle difference almost.  Not good vs 
bad, just different.

Gary

On Wednesday, July 22, 2020 at 10:51:13 AM UTC-4, Jeremy Till wrote:
>
> Masmojo, can you point to a source that describes the tubing differences 
> you mention? Or is it something you experienced from riding both? I've been 
> following Riv bikes pretty closely since the Hunqapillar came out and don't 
> remember such differences being mentioned, but I could have missed it.
>
> I've got an interest in this thread as I have a Clem H which I've ridden 
> as an off-road bike for the last 4 years or so, and honestly it's the best 
> bike in terms of ride quality I've ever owned. I've got a chronic case of 
> upgrade-itis, however, and I've wondered if an Appaloosa or used Hunq would 
> fit the bill. Given how smooth the Clem rides I'd want to make sure its 
> replacement shared its ride quality. I've never ridden a Hunq but I did 
> work on a couple of Waterford built Bombadils and I remember them being way 
> stout. I had an opportunity to buy an Appaloosa frame locally but it had 
> less tire clearance than the Clem and it would have been a tight fit with 
> my preferred tires.
>
> -Jeremy Till
> Sacramento, CA
>
>

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[RBW] WTB: 58 Hunqapillar

[Michael Williams]

Hey group,  just seeing if anyone has a 58 Hunqapillar they’re not riding much 
and would like to move along.  -Mike

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[RBW] Re: Hunqapillar vs Appaloosa ride quality?

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

   Back in 2013, I test rode an Appaloosa prototype while waiting for my 
Hunqapillar to be made. I didn't pick it up to feel its weight compared to 
the demo Hunqapillars at Riv, but it did ride much differently than the 
Hunqapillar. The longer chains stays give the ride a much different feel. I 
liked it, but I don't remember wishing I could have ordered it instead of 
the Hunqapillar. Some people really love the longer chain stay Rivendells, 
but I didn't think Riv bikes needed a smoother ride.

   I really liked the feel of the Hunqapillar, and it already had that 
Rivendell touring bicycle geometry. It felt perfect to me. I think the 
Hunqapillar has more trail than other Riv models, more wheel flop, but it 
never bothered me. As far as the weight of my 54cm Hunq goes, I carry it up 
the stairs to our 3rd floor apartment without any problem when the elevator 
breaks down. If I had purchased a longer chain stay Rivendell, it wouldn't 
fit in my elevator (it's a tiny elevator), and would stick out to the sides 
a bit more on my bike rack, and be a bit less manageable on trains.

   But I have absolutely no idea what *you* would think if you could ride 
the Hunq & Appaloosa back to back.

Here's what the Rivendell catalog said about the Hunqapillar when I ordered 
it in Dec. 2012:

http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/f-hunqapillar.htm

YMMV,

John

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[RBW] Re: Hunqapillar vs Appaloosa ride quality?

[Joe Bernard]

I've owned both, the Hunqapillar was a stout trail bike and did not feel 
appreciably lighter than an Appaloosa to me. 

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[RBW] Re: Hunqapillar vs Appaloosa ride quality?

[masmojo]

The Appaloosa would be a definite upgrade over the Clem.

I think if you went through the Blug and the Blagh for the last 2 or 3 years, 
you would find something.

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[RBW] Re: RBW Business Model

[Joe Bernard]

I never in a million years thought step-thru/mixtes would break through the 
"lady's bike" stigma in this country (most of the world didn't market them that 
way) and take off as A Serious Bicycle. Grant was the wise one who looked at 
them as bicycles first and thought "A lot of people would be better served with 
that dang toptube out of the way." He was right!  

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[RBW] Re: Hunqapillar vs Appaloosa ride quality?

[masmojo]

I think Rivendell uses what they refer to as "Silver" tubing in their current 
lineup of overseas manufactured frames. As far as I  know this steel is 
possibly sourced from one or more manufacturers (True Temper?). Perfectly 
adequate I'm sure, but older US made frames were made with more common popular 
tube sets (likely Reynolds). Problem is one or more of these companies stopped 
producing steel tubes for bike frames.

Then their lug maker shut down.

Someone could probably lend some more details, it's one of those things that I 
read and it barely  registers so my recollection of it is not too good.

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[RBW] Re: Needing front rack advice

[Joe Bernard]

The Riv/Nitto Hub Area Rack works with Orlieb front bags and I assume a bunch 
of others. Out of stock at Riv but I have one (with hoop) I'm not using. Holler 
at me at joeremi62 gmail com if you're interested. 

Joe Bernard

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[RBW] Re: RBW Business Model

[masmojo]

Yes, that Saluki is sweet!

And yes overall the Clementine sort of slid into a Niche, but I don't think 
that category really existed 20 years ago. Or at least there wasn't anyone who 
thought they could make hay with it.
To me the Electra Townie really staked out that territory of something casual, 
that was a bit more serious than a cruiser, but not built for serious "bikers".
And Clementine riders by and large take it a bit more serious still.

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[RBW] WTB Riv Bullmoose

[ant ritchey]

hey all-

need a set of the Riv bullmooses for a friend's build. figured i'd check 
here first before heading to rivbike...

holler if you have something you're willing to part with.

best,
anthony ritchey // pdx or // 724 757 9358

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[RBW] Re: RBW Business Model

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

It's not a flaw... it's a feature!


On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 1:38:11 PM UTC-4, Michael Hechmer wrote:

> There is a major flaw in the RBW Business Model.  They forgot to include 
> planned obselence.  Really, how can you expect to grow a business when your 
> products not only don't wear out they don't even loose their sex appeal? 
>  Certainly Trek didn't make that mistake and see how they have grown since 
> 1983 when I bought a 620.
>
> Take my Saluki for example.  Serial # SA 00011.  I am more in love with it 
> today than when I first got it.  Why would I want to buy a new bike? 
>  Bicycle Quarterly comes in and I look at the reviews of all the hot new 
> bikes and quickly realize I wouldn't trade em straight up for my Saluki.
>
> OK, it now has a lot of touch up paint and I would probably get it powder 
> coated if I could get my hands on some original decals, but the ride is 
> just as joyful, no even better than new, and she still looks pretty good to 
> me.  Instead of buying a new bike I can spend my money on fancy brakes, 
> levers, tires from Compass, and TA Rings ("Well honey the rings were worn 
> out and that's just what new rings cost.")
>
> So Rivendell, instead of pushing a needed replacement or a new improved 
> model, is stuck with the job of convincing people that they need more 
> bikes. Then you have to listen to your spouse - how you gonna pay for it, 
> where you gonna store it, how many bikes can you ride?  It never ends.
>
> Unfortunately for Rivendell, my wife is still in love with her Betty Foy, 
> so no bike sale this year.
>
> Michael
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] WTB: Clem L 45cm

[Dorothy C]

You would need a wheelset too. The Clem 45 is 26”, not 650b

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[RBW] Re: Needing front rack advice

[Clayton Scott]

Nitto 34F (big front rack) worked well on the 52 Clem H (most recent 
generation) I used to own. Not sure if your Clem L differs in fork geo 
though.

Best,
Clayton Scott
HBG, CA

On Wednesday, July 22, 2020 at 8:17:24 AM UTC-7, Dave Redmon wrote:
>
> I have a Clem L 52cm/650B and am searching for a front rack to carry 
> panniers. Anyone know what fits? I've tried a Tubus Tara but it slopes too 
> far forward. 
>
> Dave in Kansas
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Bikes on eBay, CraigsLIst, and Other Sites

[Paul Richardson]

64cm orange Quickbeam in the DC area.

<
https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/bik/d/riverdale-rivendell-quickbeam/7163896380.html
>

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[RBW] Needing front rack advice

[Dave Redmon]

Make that last read "slopes too far down in front"

Dave in KS

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Re: [RBW] WTB: Clem L 45cm

[Justin Lai]

No problem Kyle— best of luck. I know the 45 Clem L’s are a bit harder to find. 
You may be interested in the Velo Orange Polyvalent frameset if you have 
trouble finding the Clem 45 L: https://velo-orange.com/products/polyvalent-mk5-1

I may still be interested in purchasing your 52 Clem L frame once everything 
else is sorted on your end. Keep me posted!

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Re: [RBW] RBW Business Model

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

A Clementine is always good, now and forever! I think yours will nobly serve 
you, Mas. And yes, you should also have the Platypus. I mean, that’s exactly 
what I’m having, so it won’t be without precedent! Just own all the Riv mixtes, 
that’s what I say.

It’s true that Rivs have overlap and that we Rivendell fans are hard-pressed to 
explain to our spouses (who usually aren’t as ardent fans as we are - why does 
it work that way most of the time? One member of the couple is a bike person 
and the other is ambivalent...) why we need yet another. In my case, this is my 
one extravagance...well, unless you count that I do spend a lot on healthy, 
organic food from the grocery store - but that serves my whole family so do we 
have to count that? I’ll let you in on the Secret Life of Women here and tell 
you that most of us are spending $$$ getting our hair colored every 6 weeks, 
some are getting nails done, still others will pay for other beauty treatments, 
massages, and gym memberships. Since I do none of those things, I feel ok 
spending money on good bikes and good bike stuff from Rivendell and Analog. I 
tell my husband we’re probably saving money - I should be praised for my 
thriftiness! I will be one of the happy owners of the new Platypus when it 
finally gets released. I really cannot wait, even though it will be set up a 
lot like my Clementine. Hey, I like what I like!

Back to the business model - don’t you think Rivendell’s best business decision 
of late was when they offered the Clems? Clems are fantastic, and at at their 
price point, so many new customers could be brought in. My family are prime 
examples of this - before my mother-in-law’s was sold we had 7. Most of them 
would not be excited enough about bikes to spend the money for a fully-lugged 
Rivendell, but the Clems were reasonable, in their minds.

I’m so glad you and your wife have long loved your Rivs, Michael. I think Rivs 
get more special as their mileage increases. 

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[RBW] Needing front rack advice

[Dave Redmon]

I have a Clem L 52cm/650B and am searching for a front rack to carry panniers. 
Anyone know what fits? I've tried a Tubus Tara but it slopes too far forward. 

Dave in Kansas

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[RBW] Re: Hunqapillar vs Appaloosa ride quality?

[Jeremy Till]

Masmojo, can you point to a source that describes the tubing differences you 
mention? Or is it something you experienced from riding both? I've been 
following Riv bikes pretty closely since the Hunqapillar came out and don't 
remember such differences being mentioned, but I could have missed it.

I've got an interest in this thread as I have a Clem H which I've ridden as an 
off-road bike for the last 4 years or so, and honestly it's the best bike in 
terms of ride quality I've ever owned. I've got a chronic case of upgrade-itis, 
however, and I've wondered if an Appaloosa or used Hunq would fit the bill. 
Given how smooth the Clem rides I'd want to make sure its replacement shared 
its ride quality. I've never ridden a Hunq but I did work on a couple of 
Waterford built Bombadils and I remember them being way stout. I had an 
opportunity to buy an Appaloosa frame locally but it had less tire clearance 
than the Clem and it would have been a tight fit with my preferred tires.

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

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[RBW] RBW Business Model

[Rob Kristoff]

I appreciate the light-hearted post. But we've been down the road of 
second-guessing Grant, Will, and Co.'s business dealings before. Instead, let's 
discuss that beautiful Saluki! 

RK (now @bike.writing on insta)

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[RBW] WTB: Sam Hillborne 55cm or AHH 54.5 !!

[☆ Paul ☆]

Hello Everyone.

Looking for a new frame to build up for a friend. Either a Sam Hillborne 
55cm or A. Homer Hillson at 54.5 would fit perfectly. Would also consider 
an "older" horizontal top tube Atlantis (shorter rear triangle version, 
smaller tires) if the fit is right!

Prefer frame & fork only, but will consider buying a whole bike. Would love 
a BLACK Sam H but know that's a long shot!

Thank you! 

Paul

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[RBW] Re: Hunqapillar vs Appaloosa ride quality?

[masmojo]

You could talk about fit and ride quality, yadda. Yadda, yadda . . .
At the end of the day the main difference would be cost. The Hunqapillar being 
made domestically, one at a time & the Appaloosa being made overseas in batches 
(and limited frame sizes)
Additionally, I don't know the current situation, but early Hunqapillars would 
have been made of a better quality tubing and be quite a bit lighter than an 
Appaloosa. 
It's all academic though, seeing as old Hunqs are rarely sold and they've been 
replaced by the new "hilly bikes"

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Re: [RBW] RBW Business Model

[masmojo]

I know you were not being serious, but I can still say your wrong. Indeed 
Rivendells reputation for forever bikes is what keeps them in business!
It does present a challenge though, because 90% of your customer base already 
has a Rivendell.
How do you sell the owner of an Atlantis, Homer or Hunqapillar another bike 
when what they already have pretty much satisfies their needs!?
My original Clementine replaced an XO-1 which is hardly comparable at all 
(sadly) so I  bought a Toyo Atlantis and that bike could satisfy just about any 
need anyone might have. Unfortunately I am a bikeoholic an I can't resist the 
newest thing so I have too many bikes that are all sort of serve the same 
function.
Recently,  I endured a drastic life changing health event that is undoubtedly 
going to curtail my tendency to "over do it" when it comes to riding. No more 
30+ mile days for me. In a very short time I went from trying to sell my 
Clementine to needing to keep it & selling my Atlantis 
And as much as I hate to admit it the Platypus is looking like a good 
replacement for both of those. Just as an aside, I sold my Atlantis to someone 
who already had a Hunqapillar!
So, maybe Rivendell is almost exactly right; good solid, reliable products that 
stand the test of time & do the required job extremely well. THAT is how you 
sell new bikes to the same Ole customers.
As your customers needs change, you products change with them and because 
you've done your job they will come back over & over. 

I mean it's worth considering that when Rivendell first started would a Clem 
have been something they could have sold? It's doubtful. 

So, yeah I am probably up for a Platypus despite the terrible name, because it 
most suits my present cycling need (and I believe I have virtually all the 
parts to build it at hand).

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Re: [RBW] WTB: Clem L 45cm

[Kyle Altshuler]

Hi Justin

Appreciate the response. I’m afraid the H, even at 45cm is too high for her. 
The step thru is what allows her to fit into the bikes this size.

Thanks anyways.

All the best

Kyle 

> On Jul 22, 2020, at 5:49 AM, Justin Lai  wrote:
> 
> Kyle, 
> 
> If you’re at all interested in a 45CM Clem H in Grilver, let me know. I may 
> be interested in a trade. I purchased the bike brand new and complete a few 
> months ago, and it’s running a tad small for me. 
> 
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[RBW] WTB: Clem L 45cm

[Justin Lai]

Kyle, 

If you’re at all interested in a 45CM Clem H in Grilver, let me know. I may be 
interested in a trade. I purchased the bike brand new and complete a few months 
ago, and it’s running a tad small for me. 

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[RBW] Chauncey Matthews Riv-cloned Road Bike for Road, take 2

[Patrick Moore]

Chauncey picked up the new bike this (actually, yesterday) morning to re-do
the fork and reinforce the rear rack. A 41 mm Pasela has ample room under
the 45 mm fender in the rear, but while it fits under the fender in front,
there is only about 5 mm of clearance, so he will lengthen the fork legs to
gain an additional 10 mm, and swap out the fork-crown fender mount with
projecting boss with another that puts the threaded boss inside the
steerer, so that the fender can be butted up tight against the underside of
the crown. That should gain at least 3 mm. He said he can add more rake to
the fork to preserve the wonderful (Riv-like, in fact, since it's Riv
clone) handling.

Grant would not have built me a custom with the features I wanted -- 42s
with fenders, narrow Q, and 118 mm OL rear spacing, with braze-ones for
Sturmey Archer trigger shifter, extra-long but thin plate dropouts
(Chauncey cut his own), and internal light wire routing, with custom f and
r racks. So I consider this a non-Riv tribute to Riv.

Once I get the bike back, I'll look into buying some RH Naches Pass tires.

-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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