John, Ryan;
Good insights, personally I have a 80.5 cm pbh so I think that colours my
opinion. I am pretty low between the wheels compared to tall folks.
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At least from an armchair engineer perspective, and I recognize the
limitations and dangers of doing so, I agree. I've felt for a lot of years
that Grant's designs have matured along with himself. I have a 1992 XO-1 as
well which is clearly a very, very different bike than you'd see Grant
You make very good points, Leah, and I hope you don't receive any harsh
responses for them. Cycling still has a ways to go, like most things, when
it comes to these issues. Probably stems from most people's lack of
imagination when it comes to putting oneself in someone else's shoes.
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The Sam Hillborne got it right with only the unisex "Hillborne" logo -
could/should maybe drop the first name altogether
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Interesting history, j.schwartz! And, unrelated to this topic, hearing
multiple accounts now of people keeping their SH's long term while other
models come and go has been reinforcing my decision to get one.
I am coming from the low-trail randonneur bike as my primary interest over
the past 8
I did my part by purchasing a "last chance" Hillborne back at the start of
the month, since the last remaining size was my own! Plus a stem and a
couple other bits. Maybe in another year or two I will be able to afford
an AHH, and I won't have to swap my tires / remove my fenders each time I
Precisely what I was getting at, yes. That's why I thought it would be
really interesting to hear how each version of the AHH felt, from someone
fortunate enough to ride both. I bet the new version is more comfortable,
but I'm curious if the sporty-ness of the bike feels any different.
On
Cheers Paul, and thanks for the photos! Yes the knobby tire version is
quite capable, I took it on a variety of trails (nothing too extreme, but
plenty of roots and a few rocks) and it felt great, though I was wishing I
heeded the advise to run side-pull brakes on it. Unfortunately, it rains
Thanks for the feedback, my 'question' was what those who've ridden both
thought about the ride differences, specifically around the long stays. I
know that as unconventional as they are, Grant knows what he's doing and
had good reason to do it - but I felt that those reasons might not apply as
Knowing little more about the two bikes other than what you've described,
I'd certainly go for the Susie if it were me! It sounds like the more
lively bike, unloaded, and if you're riding at a fairly relaxed pace, I
think all the more reason to inject some liveliness. Plus, the additional
flex
Totally agree! Just harder to find.
On Friday, 15 November 2019 08:57:12 UTC-8, Fullylugged wrote:
>
> What you want is a Saluki.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
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Wow, my biggest contribution to this group is and will probably continue to
be just providing Luis a platform for that post! I am really glad you
popped in when you did, and shared those experiences! I completely
empathize with your history and feelings about the AHH, and to be honest, I
did
I especially like it because it stiffens the stock Wald supports at the
same time, which are the weak link of that system. Nice!
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I have been eyeing the Elk Pass tires for the XO - good to know! I will
probably order up a set in the spring. Funny, a box just arrived to my
desk from Rene Herse this moment (my new chainrings)
On Friday, 22 November 2019 09:23:49 UTC-8, Christopher Cote wrote:
>
> Jason, the build with
You are correct, I had not seen them, and thank you for sharing! I love
them both. I'm a big fan of 26" wheels, partly because of how nimble they
feel, and partly because I hate toe overlap and headtubes shorter than
~135mm.
The XO size I have is a 52 seat tube, 55 top tube. It fits great
Thanks everyone for the comments!
Patrick: Yes, 50mm Tallux, and you're absolutely correct that it's all due
to the wide bars. I would run an 80mm with "normal" drop bars. Reaching
wider puts one's shoulders quite a bit further forward, all else equal.
Tires are 650 x 48, but measure a touch
Rob, yeah I've heard it referred to as QBP's "Loss Leader" by Grant along
the way. I think it was just ahead of its time - 650B randonneur bikes are
ever-increasing in popularity from my perspective. Sadly when the Bleriot
was available i was into the Surlys and Salsas that were taking its
She is inspirational in her intelligence and character, but being a
Rivendell rider is icing on the cake indeed :)
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Looks like a Soma Tradesman, too.
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I think more than anything, people have vastly different conceptions of
what being liberal or being conservative is. The information you get about
either side is entirely different based on your source of news, or your
family / friends word of mouth. That said I've never worried about
I'm kind of amazed it's still available. Most Rivs are too big for me, yet
this one is too small.
My fingers are crossed that Grant brings back the Bleriot one day
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Ug it's the perfect size for me, and it's basically my ideal
commuter bike. But I am nowhere near done paying off the Hillborne I
bought only a month ago!
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Patrick, maybe it is a 700c vs. 650b difference, since mine is a 650b
model? I'm not sure!
Joe - yeah, as much as I wish I could fit a bit more tire, that's a good
point. The 1992 has a unique charm. I prefer bigger tires but it's like a
go-kart with the 26x1.25 Pasela tires (which measure
If you can handle the additional cost, the low Q-factor, endless chainring
size options, and beautiful craftsmanship of the Rene Herse / Compass
cranks cannot be beat in my opinion.
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I agree with 42-26 being a pretty ideal setup for a bike like this. That's
what I just switched to on my Rene Herse cranks, from 46-30. The latter is
OK but as you say, I found myself needing to drop from big to small ring
more often than I'd like. With the 42, I can get up most hills in the
Yes, get the Herse cranks! I am certain you will be happy you did. As for
BB length, I installed mine on the BB that my Sam Hillborne came with
(113??? No idea actually, website doesn't say and I didn't measure) and
with the 46-30 it was nearly touching the frame, probably 0.5mm clearance,
I understand Grant's apprehension with posting geometry since Rivs fit a
bit differently than most bikes so the numbers can be misleading - but
reach and stack, along with standover, are key elements to determining fit,
and I'm a firm believer in a proper fit being the most important element of
Zed,
Your record-breakingly thorough review of the Clem continues to be
enlightening, as I only just found it yesterday! After falling hard for my
Hillborne, I got to daydreaming about replacing my vintage MTB commuter
with a Clem H. What struck me especially is that the 52 ended up being a
I was just admiring this bike on IG earlier! I am @jasonmytail btw.
Lovely build, I ordered a Clem H 45cm earlier today so this was topical for
me. Good deal on that sale, I wish I had jumped on it, but thankfully a
near-as-good sale came up now so I figured why not.
I've only been a
Extremely tempted to! I just bought my Hillborne two months ago so funds
are tight (shipping to Canada is expensive too), plus if this new bike is
sub-1000 price point and 650B, I think i'd prefer to hold out for it as my
commuter bike! Still very very tempted though.
On Saturday, 21
80 cm; I would err towards a 45 if choosing because I'd rather a bike a
little small than a little large. And the 45's actually pretty reasonable
for my size from a numbers perspective though there is a big disconnect
with the recommended height range. I think you were expecting I was between
From the AMA on reddit yesterday,
"The next one is Charlie H. Gallop, and it's a high-clearance, v-braked
roadish bike that'll fit to 50mm."
Nothing new there, definitely sounds very similar to the Hillborne. I
expect the chainstays to be ~10mm longer than the equivalent size AHH and
Sorry, I didn't read the whole thread. That said, I don't consider a curved
top tube to make any difference in whether it rides like / not like a
Hillborne. Price point is a differentiator but also kind of a separate
consideration, especially since Sam wasn't a super expensive frame (by Riv
I am also the type to prefer a tastefully modified / updated old bike that
respects the original, rather than return to as original of condition as
possible - same habit with VW's as well! Hence the drop bars, etc.
Brewster - I also have an '89 Nishiki with elevated chainstays; I am
There was a Hillborne replacement hinted at a while ago on the Blahg (if I read
into it right), still waiting for the unveiling of that bike but I'm betting it
would be a great candidate depending on your patience
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80s/90s MTB as a project.
> Besides Bridgestone and Specialized, what are other good candidates?
>
> On Monday, February 10, 2020 at 3:35:12 PM UTC-8, Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>> I am also the type to prefer a tastefully modified / updated old bike
>> that respects th
When I saw this post I was excited to come in and share that the Panaracer
Gravel King SK is being made in 26" now, but based on your use and desire
for a quicker-rolling tire, have to agree with everyone else on the RH
tires. I think the Naches Pass are the way to go if you have
Also, in case it comes across otherwise, this isn't meant to imply any
negativity towards the current lineup as it is - we just all have our
preferences, right? Certainly one of the things that's made Rivendell what it
is all these years is not worrying about too many other people's opinions!
While the longer stays do create a longer moment arm, they also facilitate
better load sharing between front and rear wheels so that's bound to help,
as well as the flex characteristics of the frame could distribute the
stresses better - nothing we can prove without a good FEA model, but fun to
I think it was pretty clear based on context that 465mm is my approximate /
estimated "upper limit" based on the equilibrium of the various trade-offs.
I also prefaced that this is for an "all rounder" type bike specifically,
and that it's approximate because there are a lot of other geometry /
Building bikes designed to last a lifetime, like Rivendell does, is the
right thing to do--but it's not what pays the bills best. I wonder if it
wouldn't be in Riv's best interest to offer consignment used Rivendells /
trade ins for new frames in order to get a portion of the proceeds from the
Brilliant. I adore what Blue Lug and Simworks are doing.
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Yeah, I expect Grant could vastly improve the AR without changing or losing
the plot. While he's built some very long bikes lately, I have to assume
that Grant would still make a bike with lightweight tubing, relaxed-sporty
geometry including medium-length stays. I hope so, at least!
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Pardon the idle-mind pondering, I am home sick today and becoming bored,
which has me daydreaming about a collaboration I've been trying to ignite
between Ocean Air Cycles and Rivendell to bring back the Rambler as a MIT,
tig-welded all-rounder that could hit that $900 - $1050 range price point
Toe overlap is one of my gripes with a lot of Riv bikes - while it's
generally a product of appropriate geometry, rather than a design input, as
mentioned wheel size is a big contributor and IMO if you've got anything
more than slight overlap, then the wheel size is incorrect.
IMO any bike
The Cava's 'knobs' are flush with the casing, which were the ones I was
referring to - the Rosé is as you describe but I agree they won't be as
fast. I have them on my Sam and find them reasonably quick but certainly
slower than the Babyshoes!
On Tuesday, 18 February 2020 08:43:19 UTC-8,
Fair enough Patrick, I have had bikes with varying amounts and I should
have been clearer that I think some toe overlap is OK for me (ie my 51 Sam
has some when I run fenders) and I've also never had an accident due to it
(also rode fixed a good while on a bike with a fair bit of overlap) but I
What Paul describes as swoopy is probably the same thing I've described to
myself and maybe others as Rivendells (or, at at least the two I have) as
carving when cornering. And I expect it's because the rider is so well balanced
between front and back wheels with a Riv frame. Length is probably
Agree, that's one of the best looking Clem's I've seen! Beautiful. I am
really surprised how many Clems are set up without fenders - not only does
the Clem look a lot better with fenders imo, I also think they are a
requirement for any "everyday" type of bike.. but then again, it rains here
Sorry for the slow response, but thanks for the kind words Tom. It's an
FSA Comet crankset / BB with external bearings, which uses an annoyingly
rare chainring interface - but I discovered through internet sleuthing that
it is the same as a Cannondale spec, which Wolf Tooth makes a spider
Very much agree that stack and reach should be the most prominent geometry
numbers on any geo chart - but unfortunately, not too many people have a
feel for them, myself included to be honest!
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I'll be putting one on my Hillborne this spring, so I can move my Rawland
demi-porteur rack to my Clem. Rene Herse stuff is all beautifully made,
practical and functional stuff - but you certainly pay for it.
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Bringing back the Saluki would be a sure-fire way to get some money out of
me. :D
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to
I have a hard time suggesting anything other than Rene Herse tires for road
use when supple & quick are desired. There are other good options I'm
sure, but I cannot find a fault in the R.H. tires. At one point I was
concerned about their puncture protection because I had two flats within a
Nah. Comparable to the previous Homer sure, but the new Homer is quite a
different bike. I am actually disappointed it got the same name with such
an overhaul.
I'm also not going to ever be spending the custom Riv money (nor are many
people) but the MIT frames are quite competitive with
Here are some photos of my initial build of the Clem from a buddy who takes
nice photos (photog for the Radavist and others)
https://www.instagram.com/p/B64oAw3h7L1/?igshid=1ptxnies22j4k
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I think Ron / Bené / Ultraromance's entire bike collection would be my top
ten beautiful bicycles of 2019, a portion of which are Rivs. That said,
there are some impressive modern bikes there too. One thing I cannot find
attractive is a straight-blade steel fork though.
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The custom sounds amazing! I have pondered why the Compass/RH centerpulls
aren't used on any of the caliper-brake Rivendells. I understand the desire
to avoid rare / single source parts but the R Herse brakes are truly the
best of all worlds, unless you're heavily loaded / riding a tandem.
I bought two new Rivendells this fall, so my 2020 goal is to not buy any
more bikes and ride the heck out of these new ones! :D
My mileage goal is 3600 km, which is a monthly average I had been keeping
up July thru November this year. Other goals include:
- Ride a 200km brevet (or at
Aww no :( I live 7 hours north but was looking forward to making a trip
out of visiting this coming summer.
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I agree that Grant's bikes have continued to be at least a decade ahead of
their time, throughout history, which is impressive but also has surely had
a negative effect on sales. The 650B bikes that Grant was building in the
early 2000's are hugely marketable now, but Grant has moved on to
This is what I use for my Wald 137 on my Hillborne and it's perfect. The
platform fits the base of the basket perfectly - not required, but helps
rigidity.
https://rawlandcycles.com/collections/gear/products/raidoverks-demiporteur-rack
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A good topic, Leah! I think that it's hard to avoid "armchair engineering"
of the numbers during this discussion, which is known to be one of Grant's
biggest pet peeves, and the reason that the geometry numbers are so hard to
find in the first place. But I recognize that your intent here is
John_C - I highly, highly recommend going with the 45. The 52 is massive,
much larger than a 52 has any right being. I am 5'8.5" with s 30.5" inseam
and I fit the 45 quite well. It'll be perfect for you. With a Billie /
Bosco you'll want a longer stem but it'll overall fit MUCH better in my
I too thought about the upcoming Charlie frame, even though we don't know
everything about it yet. I get the sense it's a re-invented Hillborne,
which sounds more in line with what you need - the Atlantis might be a
touch overbuilt based on your plans, while the Homer might be a touch
Even though I haven't ridden any 50+ cm chainstay Rivs, I am pretty
confident that I would side with those who prefer the shorter stays: I
like to ride spirited, I don't mind getting a little out of control in the
name of fun, and I would happily trade off some stability to get these
things.
It would be surprising to me that someone would spend the money on a
Rivendell without being quite educated about bikes, but let's face it,
Rivendell is quite a "lifestyle brand" in a sense since Grant has a unique
perspective in the industry. So I guess it could happen. Rivendells are
meant
Awesome looking bike! I too bought my first Rivendell recently, a 51 Sam
as well, only a month before you. I have hopes of riding it for decades,
bucking my previous habit of switching things up every 3 years or so. I've
only put about 250 km on mine so far, but it's already really impressed
Crust's business plan basically requires that Matt sells through a batch
before they have the cashflow to buy a new run, hence the sporadic
availability - but you can rest assured that most of the time, a new order
is only 1-3 months away. I love the Bombora, I actually debated between
that
I understand the need for a low-key bike, but also not wanting an actual
pedestrian frame. My solution was a Clem H with a bunch of decals. This
solution looks like it must ride fantastically. I don't, however, condone
selling your Sam H based on it being too pretty - I am betting you'll
I really appreciate you saying so Ed, I was feeling a bit self-conscious
about the vanity photos - not meant to show off as much as share my
excitement :)
Joe, yes it's a pretty fun bike beyond the collector factor, though the Sam
does everything it does 90% as well, plus does so much more
Funny, I'm going through a similar process with my Clem H. I swapped over
everything from my upgraded vintage MTB city 'beater', so it's a somewhat
eclectic mix of mostly economy-based parts, with a good sprinkling of fancy
parts as well. The result is a pretty heavy bike - and it's mostly due
Ha, I had noticed that the 50cm was listed as 26" in the geometry page, but
650B on the frameset page. I emailed Will about the discrepancy a little
while ago, but hadn't heard back about it. Now I know the truth!
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Fender installation is an exercise in patience and attention to detail, for
sure. I just ordered a set of Simworks / Honjo 74mm fenders for my Clem H
45 will be interesting to see how I make out with them, as I have to
re-radius them to fit the 26" wheels then shoe-horn them into the frame
"Gravel Peterson"
Why buy direct from Riv when you can pay double on eBay!
On Wednesday, 15 April 2020 11:45:55 UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> I won't link it but there's an NOS Clem F/F/HS on Ebay. $1800! Plus
> shipping!!!
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I'm one of those people who just can't get into the look of a step thru
bike, with one exception, and that's the Clem L. There is just something
magical about its appearance; I expect it's the fact that it's the most
practical bike geometry there is, which transcends previous concepts of
Leah, I've thought back to that sentiment that you've stated, about how
Clems, despite being the most pedestrian of Rivs, manage to out-do their
bejazzled counterparts quite a few times. I thought about it when reading
that SF Craigslist ad of the 50cm Atlantis, and how it's for sale because
I don't have a shop sack, but I can offer a hearty endorsement for the Swift
Sugarloaf, which I've used as a daily carry for about four years now. It's more
expensive and smaller volume (I think), but also made in USA, top notch
quality, nearly waterproof, and has some organization pockets etc.
Yeah their stuff is pretty expensive, but not over-priced. Might be
overkill for a lot of people though (not unlike a $1500 lugged steel
frameset ;) ). Pricing is definitely a product of quality of materials and
MUSA labour, and their stuff is more labour-intensive to make than a shop
sack,
I live in a high bike-theft city, so choosing an extra sturdy rack,
checking it that it's in good shape, making sure to lock to the right part
of the rack, using two locks (and going around at least one wheel) is just
part of normal lock-up. I also always try to lock up in front of a cafe or
I never know when to believe that a model is truly retired, as it seems
some pop back into existence for a new run after some time away. For
instance, if a fresh crop of Roscoe (high TT) dropped, I'd probably have to
get one, but I have no idea if that will happen or not.
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beauty of a build, and it's nice to see a smaller sized Riv, since it seems
like most owners are tall. even in my size (50-53 based on model), i don't
see much representation!
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There is a huge wealth of information available on places like
bikepacking.com - there are a lot of fancy setups, but one of the
foundation principles of bike packing / touring is that ingenuity and
creativity is a great replacement for money. Also "bikepacking" is
typically considered to be
Myself, I'd probably want to paint it after a classic bike I've been inspired
by (Riv or not) so the colour has context, rather than just one I like the look
of.
But what about this vintage machinery green:
https://images.app.goo.gl/NP2K6S87MsJrpdpq6
(Hope that works)
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hehe, somebody got fooled.
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Thanks for posting the in-progress update Joe! Looks very nice. Can't
wait to see it with paint.
If I were looking at a custom, I think it would be designed around 26 x 2.1
with 65mm fenders, and I'd alternate presently between Naches Pass and
Gravel Kings. I'd push for medium trail, and
Any of my complimentary pairings would have to have one bike that's
relatively lively and suitable for comfy road tires, and the other would
have to have generous tire clearance and be able to carry a fair bit. An
AHH / Joe Appa combo would be my choice probably as of today, though I have
Oh wow, that's beautiful. Naches Pass I assume? It's making me
second-guess my decision to go with fatter tires / fenders on my Clem
instead of those.
I feel like 95% of people who try moustache bars come to the same
conclusion. I'm not sure if it's because you need a super short stem to
This has me seriously debating whether to go with Atlas or Cliffhangers on
my Clem wheelset; I might end up running Rat Trap Passes on it and maybe
the extra width will prevent the swirm that some have reported. Or maybe
the Atlas is wide enough to address that. I'll probably run Gravel King
In the context of riding only the streets indicated in the article, totally
agree that the pictured mountain bike doesn't make sense. I was assuming,
if it's her bike, that she does ride trails on it. My point was the
intended purpose of that bicycle is quite different than the Clem, and when
This thread reminds me how far off the "beaten path" this group really is,
haha. That bike looks like a pretty decent mountain bike, and while I love
to romanticize about the joys of a simple, capable bicycle as much as any
Riv owner, telling someone they should give up their much-more-capable
Beauty of a build! I had the same path to Rivendell ownership, landing on
a Hillborne for basically exactly the same purposes (with a little bit of
credit card touring mixed in). I had a similar concern about it being a
bit heavy duty and sluggish, coming off a lightweight randonneur
Right, I did know that but had forgot. Nonetheless, it seemed like an
awfully practical addition to the lineup - I feel that there's a huge gap
in the affordable TIG lineup between the Clem and the Roadini, where
something akin to the Surly Pack Rat (but better executed with the latest
Grant
Ha, I have a Clem H and am constantly fighting a nagging desire to upgrade
to an Atlantis / Joe in similar size. But for me, it's purely vanity that
draws me in (those lugs, those colours).
However in my case, it would be going from a 45cm Clem H to a 50cm Atlantis
/ 51cm Appaloosa, and for
Yeah, it's hard to pin down exact details but that's a pretty solid modern
XC mountain bike. The members here are extremely knowledgeable about
certain types of bicycles, but this thread has been kind of funny to read
as a life-long mountain biker. Obviously, the consensus here would be she
Good idea on the Rhyno Lite / XL - I ran one of each on my trials bike back
in the 90's and on a MTB or two as well!
A friend also mentioned the Velo Orange rims, which I had forgotten about -
27mm outside / 22mm inside width is a nice middle ground too, plus they
come in polished for a
Wow, that's great! I have to imagine some luck went into that as well, but
needless to say RBW doesn't treat obsolescence the way most bike makers do.
I'm more of an email than a call kind of person, which doesn't really jive
with RBW's preferences, and I find I sometimes don't get responses,
For a traditional road bike, such a short stem might be strange but for a
more all-road or all-terrain style bike, I think the long TT / short stem
combo is great because it gets the front wheel further out in front of you
for better stability / less chance of endo, reduces or eliminates toe
I have to think those ZTTO 8 spd wide range cassettes (paired with a
Shimano 8spd derailleur and chain, drop link if necessary to get the
derailleur up onto that big cog, and friction shifter) is the ideal
scenario - and cheap, to boot! I think that's the route I'll go when I
eventually wear
I've said more than once that I'd rather a second Hillborne than any other
bike, that's how much I love the Hillborne - this might make me put my
money where my mouth is! Haha..
(and to explain, I'd have one set up with drops, slicks, and fenders - and
the other would have knobbies and an
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