http://hiawathacyclery.blogspot.com/2010/08/versatile-sam-hillborne.html
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We've sold a couple this year, but I've been neck-deep in repairs and
haven't spent much time publicizing the bikes we're selling.
On Aug 4, 2:26 pm, Seth Vidal skvi...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery
thill@gmail.com wrote:
http
It'd be interesting to lower your stem a little and try again.
On Aug 7, 2:37 pm, MichaelH mhech...@gmail.com wrote:
In five years of riding my Rambouillet I have never experienced any
front end shimmy - until this morning. I was coming down VT 108 from
Smugglers Notch and as the bike hit 45
The spacing between the chainrings on the XD is for 7/8sp chain. If
you are using indexed shifting for 10sp with 10sp chain, then the
front derailleur won't push the chain far enough to make the shift.
You could get around this if your front shifter is friction, but I
imagine there is a risk of
(not that square
taper is bad, just that the new stuff has some advantages).
On Aug 20, 2:55 am, Jan RBW jan@gmail.com wrote:
So if I shifted the front with friction, would XD2 work fine with 10 speed
chain? Or would the skinny chain drop between the chainrings?
2010/8/19 Jim Thill
If your rear wheel is built on a Phil track hub, the axle bolts can be
removed to allow the wheel to drop straight down. Obviously not a
cheap/easy solution if you have some other kind of hub. I'd prefer a
forward facing horizontal dropout, but there's probably some liability
concern with that.
And have just one bike HAHAHAHAHAHA
On Aug 25, 3:47 pm, Ray Shine r.sh...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
In my opinion, an Atlantis will handle both types of riding no problem.
Rather
than two bikes, just buy a second set of wheels for the Atlantis and mount
knobbies on them. Then you can switch
The Hillborne orange isn't too far off.
On Aug 27, 2:40 pm, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote:
On Fri, 2010-08-27 at 08:53 -0400, Frederick, Steve wrote:
If it were me (tho perhaps this falls outside your budget) I'd order
up a Roadeo with Rambouillet orange paint...
Do you remember
Time for Riv to go threadless!
On Aug 28, 12:23 am, Michael_S mikeybi...@rocketmail.com wrote:
my understanding is 31.8 only. Which does not leave any quill stem
options. we will have to use one of those adapters with a threadless
stem.
~Mike~
On Aug 27, 9:14 pm, cyclotourist
:
On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 9:46 PM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery
thill@gmail.com wrote:
Time for Riv to go threadless!
Let's not have that happen. I really don't care for threadless very much.
-sv
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outright reject an
option that otherwise has good features/design/aesthetics, but all
else being equal...
On Aug 29, 9:18 am, Seth Vidal skvi...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 3:41 AM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery
thill@gmail.com wrote:
Seth makes a good point, in that many
Just wanted to thank everyone here for their non-judgmental and open
minded views.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
I've seen Riv-oriented people get fighting mad over the phrase carbon
fiber. We all have our prejudices.
On Oct 12, 1:39 pm, Michael_S mikeybi...@rocketmail.com wrote:
I was looking at a
I have been riding as much as possible in Minnesota winter going back
to 2004, and I LOVE it! Nokians were my first studded tires, but now
I'm committed to Schwalbe studded models, which are lighter, have more
studs, and seem to roll easier. Winter riding is in many ways
different than summer
I have abandoned SKS fenders unless I have a customer who can't be
convinced to try something else. The Planet Bike Cascadias are a bit
less expensive, easier to install, give better coverage, and in my
opinion they look nicer (especially now that they removed the gaudy
planet bike logo from the
We had an early 70s French something in a couple months ago with a 4sp
freewheel. Gearing limitations were the least of its problems...
It's not accurate to describe Silver shifters as friction. They are
more of a ratchet mechanism than a friction mechanism. Unlike true
friction, which, for all
I have an old Stumpjumper, too, 1983 or 84. It has been my go-to bike
on a daily basis for several years. I mostly rode it fixed-gear in a
touring bike configuration, if that makes any sense, and I now have it
for sale (somewhat reluctantly). To make a Riv connection, I believe
these were made by
PS:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/twowheelflight/2928495702/
Also, an earlier stage with 650B wheels, basket, and Albatross bar:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/twowheelflight/422613850/
I found it was not at its best with 650B wheels.
On Oct 24, 10:14 am, Marty mgie...@mac.com wrote:
While I wait
the idea of touring on one, much less on a fixed
gear. I'm intrigued. How's it worked out for you? Do you have it
geared low?
--Tom
On Oct 25, 12:23 am, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery
thill@gmail.com wrote:
PS:http://www.flickr.com/photos/twowheelflight/2928495702/
Also, an earlier stage
AM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery
thill@gmail.com wrote:
Gearing low on a fixed gear is usually a mistake, since spinning 150+
rpm down hills can be a greater challenge than pushing a somewhat
taller gear uphill.
Your body gets used to pushing bigger gears at low rpm with high
torque
If ice is a typical concern where you live, Schwalbe Marathon Winter
700x35 or 700x40. Schwalbe also has the 700x38 Snow Stud, which is
probably more appropriate for locales where wet snow is more common,
but ice is an occasional concern.
On Oct 28, 9:02 am, Bruce Baker bkno...@gmail.com wrote:
Slow here at Hiawatha Cyclery, too. The weather has been more
beautiful than usual for October, and I see people out on bikes, but
for whatever reason they're not in here buying stuff or getting
repairs. A good snow/ice storm would clear us out of studded tires,
and some mid-winter seasonal
My first bike shop job was at one of the larger shops in the area, and
the owner is/was a pretty hard-headed, sharp-elbowed businessman. I
remember one time hearing him telling an aspiring-but-procrastinating
customer I'm not operating a museum. That has stuck with me over the
years - in this
I agree that roll-on bike service would be great, but I have found
Amtrak to be a wonderful way to travel with a bicycle. If you are
traveling between two stations that offer luggage service, then simply
use one of the Amtrak bike boxes. It's not ideal, but it's not as bad
as people often imagine
Pretty sure it's a retro-direct drivetrain.
On Nov 9, 7:38 am, Seth Vidal skvi...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Nov 9, 2010 at 8:25 AM, rperks perks@gmail.com wrote:
Same here, and while I get it, take a close look at the chain line
on that bike. Is it a kickstand making it look odd or are
I think it's a bad idea to do such a wheel size conversion on a
tandem. Pedal strike is highly undesirable on a tandem, and dangerous.
On Nov 10, 12:26 pm, Frederick, Steve frede...@mail.lib.msu.edu
wrote:
To bring this a bit more on topic, I wonder if a 700c, sidepull-braked tandem
would
Before you go through the considerable expense of adding couplers,
consider that in the world of airline luggage fees today, you are as
likely as not to be charged $200 per bike per trip even with coupled
bikes that don't exceed normal luggage size limits. The rules on this
are seemingly unclear,
If you can determine that the shifters are indeed 9sp, that the
derailleur hanger is not bent, that the derailleur and downtube cable
stop are snug, and that the cable is routed properly under the bb,
then I would check the cable pinch bolt. If the cable runs on the
wrong side of the bolt, it
Some shops may have the WTB Test Ride Program, which is basically a
collection of specially-marked and loaner saddles that you can try
before you buy. We have sold a lot of WTB saddles this way. The two
most popular are the Rocket (narrow-ish) and the Pure (wider, similar
dimensions to a B17). All
I'm with you on being less than enchanted with cantilever brakes.
Spirit of the group notwithstanding (it's your bike, after all), the
Magura hydraulic rim brakes are nice, but may be limiting in terms of
what kind of handlebar bar you can use with them. My choice would be
to use v-brakes (aka
Quill stems are a great frustration for me for exactly this reason:
very little selection in terms of rise, clamp diameter, etc. So many
good handlebar options that simply aren't available to those of us who
happen to have a bike with a quill stem. And what seems to be a simple
stem swap becomes
Making build-ups faster is certainly a consideration. But I disagree
that the refinements in bicycle and component design are not, in fact,
genuine improvements. Here's my take on how these examples represent
improvements for the end-user:
V-brakes: A lot of people seem to be saying that
You can also get an adjustable reamer and ream out the steerer, as
needed and not 0.1 mm more.
On Dec 3, 1:53 pm, PATRICK MOORE bertin...@gmail.com wrote:
???!!! You mean that the quill will fit into a French steerer with no
problem? Thinking about that, I see no reason why it shouldn't; after
Cleaning out some inventory and raising some cash.
Lightweight 700C/622mm wheelset, all NOS and all silver: Dura-Ace
7800-series hubs, Velocity Aerohead rims (rear drilled off-center), rear
36h, front 32h. Sapim spokes, front spokes are bladed. Includes 10sp 12-27
Shimano cassette. The rims
Both sets of 700C wheels are sold.
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I have a 1-1/4 threaded steerer on my Santana tandem. A local bicycle
machinist guy made me a tall quill, diameter 1-1/8 that fits perfectly into
the steerer and fastens with the usual wedge/bolt mechanism. Any 1-1/8
threadless type stem will clamp onto this quill, which makes for a stem with
Five years ago, we were the sole US supplier of these - it was the first
product we sold at Hiawatha. The original SL100 model works great and I know
of several that are still going after 5 hard years, Minneapolis winters,
etc. The drawback of this model is that when the bike stops, the lights
I have tried the JB Blues on three different bikes, and I disliked how they
felt more than I've ever disliked any tire. Subjective, yes, but I thought
they felt dead and slow. No scientific analysis to back that up. When I went
to Paselas, or in one case some old Conti Top Touring 2000, I
I have a few nice wheelsets lying around, and I'm also building some new
ones to use up some rim and hub inventory and to pass the time until the
snow melts.
Here's what I have:
700C/622: Velocity Aerohead rims with 36h Shimano T660 (touring version of
LX) rear and 32h Alfine front generator
+1 on the descent without brakes article. If I recall, it was a reprint from
a 1970s issue of Bicycling?
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It's been awhile since I installed one of these, but assuming you have the
struts and the fasteners that attach the struts to the rack, I believe all
you need would be some M5 bolts of the appropriate length. Every LBS has M5
bolts. If you don't have the struts, etc, then call Riv.
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You
650B and 26 wheels are gone, but I still have the 700c wheels. Open to
offers.
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OLD of the rear is 135 mm.
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I have lots of rims. I think they're all interesting.
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Demand and people chatting on an internet forum, lamenting a bike that
went out of production for lack of demand, are two very different things...
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It could be argued that some of us have organized our lives around having to
drive everywhere, 30-mile (or more) one-way commutes, living in places where
transportational cycling is simply too difficult or dangerous, etc. That's
the arrangement that many people choose for various reasons, and
Over the years, there were numerous changes from batch to batch, even among
just Toyo Atlantis frames. Different lugs, different headbadges, different
decals, different braze-ons, different forks, and it seems like tire
clearance possibly improved in later incarnations. I have not seen a
I should point out that Peter White is THE wholesaler for many of the German
lighting products, and Rivendell is not the only outfit that sells these
items at the retail level. We at Hiawatha Cyclery have been selling Schmidt
hubs/lights, BM lights, etc, since we opened our doors five years
My favorite is the Schwalbe Kojak. I have been using the 26x2 size, and
think they're wonderful! There is a skinnier one (1.35?), but I haven't
tried it.
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Pretty sure the QBP brand rings are no longer available, but they were
pretty nice. I generally default to Sugino brand rings, but sometimes Salsa.
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I have about 1600 miles on the Kojaks in a variety of non-winter conditions,
including hundreds of miles of gravel, and have not had any issues with
traction. Most of the tread on non-knobby tires is cosmetic anyway...lots
of people share these concerns about slick tires, so tire manufacturers
Specifically, what do you need?
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Ron: Thanks for the Dave Moulton article about BB height. Grant has many
times made the case that a bike with a lower BB has some handling advantage,
which I never fully understood, and, since it came from Grant, I never
questioned the wisdom. In recent years, however, I have had quite a bit of
I did this with my early 80s Specialized Stumpjumper, and I concluded it was
a bad idea on that bike. Ultimately, I went back to 26 for the greatly
increased variety of suitable tires. I used the Paul Motolite brakes (not
worth the $$$ IMO), but it could probably be done with other cantilever
Hi Forrest, I have done the Almanzo 100 twice on Schwalbe Kojaks (slicks),
and have done many touring miles of southeastern Minnesota gravel on
Supremes. No problem whatsoever, wet or dry. The only time I want knobbier
tread is when riding wet singletrack with slippery rocks, mud, and tree
There is no practical tire width limitation. I have many times run 2 or
bigger tires on rims 24 mm or slightly narrower. If you need rims, I have a
shocking number of 26 40h rims, mostly Velocity Aeroheat (black) and Sun
RhynoLite (polished silver). I use the 26 RhynoLite on my own touring
I wear Old Navy stuff sometimes. It's durable/comfortable enough, usually
looks halfway stylish, and of course, it's really inexpensive. To say that
MUSA shorts are on par with Old Navy quality might not be untrue, or the
insult it is intended/interpreted to be - except that MUSA shorts cost a
I think Schwalbe makes the Kojak in 26x1.35.
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I agree with Jeremy about the noise coming from the points where the spokes
cross. A little grease or oil on these crosses should fix it.
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Thanks for the plug, Seth. I've already pre-sold about half of the 100
posters I ordered. These are really going to be gorgeous.
http://hiawathacyclery.blogspot.com/2011/03/2011-hc-poster.html
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Dish on dynamo hubs is sometimes non-zero. Non-disc SON hubs are symmetric,
but other manufacturers move the right flange inward to leave room for the
wire/plug connection. My personal favorite lotsa-bang-for-the-buck hub is
the Shimano Alfine, which has some dish because of the disc brake
I have nothing against professional photographers or exploiting people, but
I am greatly offended by the shameless portrayal of internal gear hubs and
chain guards as sensible for transportation bikes! Both of these cause me
lots of trouble on a daily basis!
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For wheelbuilding purposes, a dished wheel is not much more difficult to build
than a non-dished wheel. You may have two different spoke lengths, but
otherwise the process is the same.
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Well said, Matt. A very stylish former girlfriend, who has little or no
interest in bikes, fell in love with an Electra Amsterdam purely as a fashion
accessory. In the end she decided that spending $500 on a bike was out of the
question (she can buy decent earrings with that kind of money!)
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Cute, and they definitely have panache... But for stopping power, I'll be
using $15 Tektro v-brakes :)
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While the gear recommendations above are worth your consideration, and
could make a few recommendations of products and strategies that have
worked ok for me, I believe you will learn best by doing. The beauty
of a S24O is that you only have to live with your mistakes for 24
hours or less. I
Highly recommend that you get a friction bar-end, downtube, or thumb
shifter for your triple. You can keep the brifter set, just don't hook
the shifting to it on the left side. It worked for Lance Armstrong.
On Apr 8, 12:05 pm, M. Chandler milehighska...@gmail.com wrote:
Shimano's road triples
Now if only Riv would come up with a pricey version of those white
vinyl mattress saddles!
On Apr 8, 1:16 pm, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote:
Yes. Here: http://www.rivbike.com/assets/payloads/253/original_S60.pdf
I plan to get one. I prefer the look on some bikes. Low budget
Why ask the peanut gallery when you could go to the source?
http://www.schwalbetires.com/marathon_supreme
IMO, the Supreme is a nice tire for city riding, gravel riding, loaded
bike riding, etc. Fairly flat-resistant, fairly lightweight, fairly
nice rolling, fairly expensive. Schwalbe makes at
In high school, living in one of the many remote parts of the Upper
Peninsula of Michigan with several thousand wild acres in my backyard,
I was fanatic about hunting and trapping. And when I did those things,
I prefered to use the tools and methods used by my grandfather or
great-grandfather,
Looks great, Seth. None of these left (for now), but you've given me
inspiration to frame my poster.
On Apr 26, 6:34 pm, Seth Vidal skvi...@gmail.com wrote:
I assume this is quasi on topic since I found out about the print
here. I got my print from Hiawatha back from the framers today:
Funny, I couldn't give the damned things away when they were still
available. Too many internet discount places selling them $15 over
cost.
On May 7, 6:03 pm, Johnny Alien johnnyal...@verizon.net wrote:
Yep, $750
On May 7, 6:29 pm, William tapebu...@gmail.com wrote:
How much was that?
Well, off-road covers a lot of ground, so to speak. On a dry trail
with scattered rocks as the main obstacles, or on a groomed but
unpaved trail, the BAs at lowish pressure would be ok or even great.
On the Minnesota River Bottoms, where I often ride, muddy, slippery
roots protrude at acute angles
I could add one more step, likely of no pertinence here, except that
the back-story is entertaining. One day I was at the shop early, and
this college hipster kid comes in with some dumpster-find Peugeot
converted to fixed gear. He had some kind of fancy track crank and BB
for it. Of course, the
Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote:
The discussion about the new Pacenti 650B tires momentarily ventured
into commentary on the future of 650B. I thought this was worth a
discussion of its own.
Two or three years ago we had 650B bikes at Hiawatha Cyclery from at
least three manufacturers
am, John McMurry johnmcmu...@gmail.com wrote:
On May 12, 1:33 am, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery thill@gmail.com
wrote:
The discussion about the new Pacenti 650B tires momentarily ventured
into commentary on the future of 650B. I thought this was worth a
discussion of its own.
It can
wheels and tires to my hoard of incandescent
light bulbs. And hi, by the way; I'm regularly here reading but this
is my first time posting. How long will hoarded tires and tubes keep?
On May 12, 1:33 am, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery thill@gmail.com
wrote:
The discussion about the new Pacenti
I've been reading about these fire trails in Grant's writings for
years. As far as I know, we don't have fire trails in Minnesota, but
we have thousands of miles of rural gravel roads, and races/rides on
these gravel roads have exploded in popularity. This weekend I, along
with several hundred
Your body position is the same on both bikes? Sometimes even a small
fore/aft saddle adjustment will make a big difference in pedaling
power.
On May 20, 5:13 pm, Tyler mock...@gmail.com wrote:
I've had my bleriot for 2 years and my quickbeam for 1 year. I bought
the quickbeam to essentially be
IMO, you'd gain very little and make the bike potentially dangerous to
ride by doing this conversion. The Hilsen has ample tire and fender
clearance. Not sure you'd improve that in a meaningful way by going to
650B, assuming you can even find a brake that works.
The dangerous part relates to the
No comment on Mr Moore's bicycle for sale, but a comment on the
Waterford Hillbornes based on my limited experience with one frame/
bike: We have a Waterford Hillborne here at Hiawatha. There is nothing
I can see on the bike that indicates that Waterford made it, and the
quality of the paint and
I'm 5'8 on a good day, 85 cm pbh, and have always been most
comfortable on 58-59 cm Riv-proportioned bikes. Early in my bike
career, the bike fitting guru at the shop where I was working
expressed shock and dismay that I would ride such a large frame. He
suggested that I'd be a better fit on a 52
The spoke count matters very little compared to the weight of the tire/
tube/rim combination. You can save a bunch of rolling weight and
probably improve rolling resistance, for example, simply by switching
to an ultralight tube (I almost always use ultralight tubes). You save
even more rolling
Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery thill@gmail.com
wrote:
The spoke count matters very little compared to the weight of the tire/
tube/rim combination. You can save a bunch of rolling weight and
probably improve rolling resistance, for example, simply by switching
to an ultralight tube (I almost
UL tubes (and half the cost) as well as the tubeless fluids/strips. He's
pretty happy with his set up, and doesn't puncture very often. He says it's
not a hassle to mount them, but YMMV.
On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 8:30 PM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery
thill@gmail.com wrote:
I don't
One benefit of freehub designs is that this can be a little easier -
single tool and wrench rather
than a bench vise.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding your words, but to remove a cassette,
generally you'd need a chain whip (or vise whip!!!), cassette lockring
tool, and a wrench to turn the cassette
Do it! Unless you're a conformist, then do only silver parts.
On Jun 27, 2:42 pm, Thomas Lynn Skean thomaslynnsk...@comcast.net
wrote:
Contemplating my Hillborne build and wondering whether brass fenders
would look okay with the Sam's orange. The bike would be adorned with
silver
Is it lower gears you're after? Could do one of the Shimano MTB cranks
with 48/36/24 or 44/32/22.
On Jun 28, 10:36 pm, GeorgeS chobur...@gmail.com wrote:
I am getting a new road frame and I would like to try an external
bearing BB. But I want a triple. The only one I've found is
Shimano's
Well, external bearings are often marketed based on larger (stronger
bearings) and, for lack of a better term, the wide stance that makes
the BB stiffer. There's probably a weight savings, too. But for me the
greatest advantage is that I can remove and reinstall the crank with a
5 mm allen wrench
The selection of BMX pedals from low-end to high-end is mind-boggling,
and should be appreciated by those of us who like flat pedals with no
clips, straps, or cleats. I usually go with cheap ($20-30) Primo or
Wellgo pedals, but some of the fancier $80-150 pedals are really nice,
with cartridge
This thread is kinda funny in light of another recent discussion re:
external bearing triples, during which one commentator expressed
reluctance to fight with various standards and incompatibilities of
external BBs. Never used a VO BB, except the French ones, but I've
used XD cranks hundreds of
Assuming the hub is made for 7s, it should work fine. I think.
On Jul 5, 9:30 pm, Forrest ftme...@me.com wrote:
I'm hoping to put an IRD 7-spd freewheel (from RBW) on a Phil Wood
road hub, easy as pie, no fuss and no muss. The 7-spd will take the
place of a Sachs 6-spd freewheel.
Has anyone
700x40 too skinny? The Hillborne we started concocting today pushes
the limits of tire clearance... Pictures when it's done.
On Jul 6, 8:08 pm, EricP ericpl...@aol.com wrote:
As mentioned in another thread, rode the Sam Hillborne for 71 miles
yesterday. Nothing too great for that, except the
That's a nice bike, Bill, and a good price. Now where did I put those
pedal blocks?
On Jul 6, 11:18 pm, Bill Connell bconn...@gmail.com wrote:
I've come to the hard decision to sell my Redwood. It's in great
shape, ridden well but not abused, about 3,000 miles on it over almost
6 years, never
The sidepull brakes, in your case, will not be a limiting factor for
tire clearance. You should be able to do a 700x40 with a fender, and
probably 700x45 without fenders. Personally, I think the Planet Bike
Cascadia fenders are much nicer than the SKS fenders.
On Jul 7, 1:51 pm, Peter Pesce
Tandems can be made to work with bigger tires, after a fashion. I was
tired of the limitations of 28 mm tires. Now my tandem runs Big Apple
26x2.35, and it CAN run 26x4.0 up front. From the 10+foot hydraulic
brake line to the steerer-tube diameter mismatch to the home-brewed 90
mm kiddie-crank,
I believe Soma's rack is rated to 25 kg, not 25 lb. It's actually
pretty nice.
On Jun 21, 8:25 pm, Brewster Fong bfd...@yahoo.com wrote:
On Jun 21, 9:11 am, Bruce Gordon bgcyc...@svn.net wrote:
Sure I would put down tube shifter bosses - no difference to me.
There are a couple of frames
Black Paselas and Pasela variants are (becoming) widely available. In
most cases, your LBS can get them for you from the usual distributors.
On Jun 23, 8:48 pm, Bruce fullylug...@yahoo.com wrote:
Someone asked where the black Paselas came form
We tried running a left side Shimano bar-end (friction only) with a
SRAM rear derailleur on a 9s cassette. It wasn't able to hit all 9
gears. The same shifter worked fine when we switched to a Shimano
derailleur.
On Jun 23, 6:51 pm, relistan relis...@gmail.com wrote:
Are you indexing? Or do
If you aren't averse to chemical burns, lye might be fun.
On Jun 24, 6:30 pm, Robert Linthicum linthi...@gmail.com wrote:
Google is my friend: The Kalloy Uno seatpost is ALUMINUM. I just put
ammonia on our shopping list!
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You received this
I would imagine that the Rom would get noodly if you put a lot of
weight on the front, which you will discover if you brake while going
downhill. I found this to be the case with my Atlantis, and I think it
has a lot to do with a 1 steerer being somewhat flexy under such
circumstances. But with a
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