Re: [RBW] Re: Unsafe helmets

[Lee Legrand]

Politics and religion.  The two topics which will enrage and set off
firestorms in a email forum such as this or on a street corner or in the
work office.  I am not upset that he put it on the forum although it may go
outside of "forum policy".  I like those who break the rules sometimes.  It
irritates the old folks who have to have everything the same like there
morning breakfast or sleep at a certain time or those who cannot stand
opinion other than there own.

On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 10:30 PM, Scott McLain 
wrote:

> i don’t like giro and bell helmets because they don’t fit me right.  I
> have been foregoing a helmet more and more.  My primary use for a helmet is
> when my wife come riding with me.
>
> However I do buy amp from Federal.  Mostly Shotgun shells for when we go
> to the range.  I probably also buy .22 and 9mm shells from the also.
>
> I don’t shop at Wal Mart though because they are destroying America.  They
> are almost as evil as Microsoft.
>
> Throw another log on the fire
>
> Grinning with Patrick!
>
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Re: [RBW] Unsafe helmets

[Lee Legrand]

Misleading title?: Yes
Bad for Forum?: Ehh
Political topic that will inform some and enrage others?: Priceless

On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 4:52 AM, Daniel D.  wrote:

> Misleading title...
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Minimalist cycling shoe article.

[Lee Legrand]

Ha, it was a April Fool Joke.  Boy do I feel like a knuckle head now. LOL

On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 12:41 PM, Lee Legrand <krm2...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Really?
>
> On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 12:35 PM, Garth <garth...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It was an April fools joke !
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 2, 2018 at 12:15:09 PM UTC-5, Lee Legrand wrote:
>>>
>>> I am opening this discussion back up.  Well, I get cycling stuff sent to
>>> me thru pinterest and there is a minimalist cycling shoe that appeared in
>>> 2014 offered by Shimano.  I do not know if they still have it but I figure
>>> I will at least link it hear for all to read.  I still do not know if it
>>> adds anything to cycling performance or foot health.  I have not read the
>>> article but if the discussion pops up, I will make sure to read before
>>> responding.
>>>
>>> https://gearjunkie.com/shimano-vibram-bike-shoe
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Minimalist cycling shoe article.

[Lee Legrand]

Really?

On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 12:35 PM, Garth <garth...@gmail.com> wrote:

> It was an April fools joke !
>
>
> On Tuesday, January 2, 2018 at 12:15:09 PM UTC-5, Lee Legrand wrote:
>>
>> I am opening this discussion back up.  Well, I get cycling stuff sent to
>> me thru pinterest and there is a minimalist cycling shoe that appeared in
>> 2014 offered by Shimano.  I do not know if they still have it but I figure
>> I will at least link it hear for all to read.  I still do not know if it
>> adds anything to cycling performance or foot health.  I have not read the
>> article but if the discussion pops up, I will make sure to read before
>> responding.
>>
>> https://gearjunkie.com/shimano-vibram-bike-shoe
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Minimalist cycling shoe article.

[Lee Legrand]

I am opening this discussion back up.  Well, I get cycling stuff sent to me
thru pinterest and there is a minimalist cycling shoe that appeared in 2014
offered by Shimano.  I do not know if they still have it but I figure I
will at least link it hear for all to read.  I still do not know if it adds
anything to cycling performance or foot health.  I have not read the
article but if the discussion pops up, I will make sure to read before
responding.

https://gearjunkie.com/shimano-vibram-bike-shoe



On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 12:08 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:

> Peter,
>
> A raised heel changes the gait, be it running or walking, causing greater
> wear and impact on the heel (as well as altering biomechanics). The
> “solution” you say the heel is actually created the problem. WIth the
> excepetion of leather soled moccasins, the uppers on my footwear fall apart
> now, long before the soles are done, and my moccasins wear out under the
> big toe metatarcal and almost equally across the forefoot, not the heel at
> all. Bottom line, walking barefoot or in minimalist shoes with
> biomechanically correct gait is much easier on footwear and feet.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
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Re: [RBW] No Ordinary Rides

[Lee Legrand]

I love that saddlebag.  Wish Grant would bring them back.

On Tue, Dec 26, 2017 at 8:48 PM, Ed Fausto  wrote:

> As usual, nice pictures Patrick!
> Btw, what do you use to mount your phone/camera to take those pictures?
> Happy New Year!
>
> On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 2:08 AM, Deacon Patrick 
> wrote:
>
>> In which the gift of every ride is celebrated, however small.
>> https://thegrid.ai/withabandon/no-ordinary-rides
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
>> www.CredoFamily.org
>> www.MindYourHeadCoop.org
>>
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Re: [RBW] New Lugged Bike Builder of Note

[Lee Legrand]

Sweet.  If he keeps progressing with work like that, he will one of the
best frame builder in the country.

On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 10:02 AM, Addison Wilhite 
wrote:

> Happy Sunday morning all,
> I shared this on the ibob list but it later occurred to me that I should
> share it here as well.  A friend of mine has been apprenticing with Roland
> Della Santa for a few years and has just unveiled his first bike.  He built
> it for his father for his birthday and it's a stunner.  It's been fun to
> see Jake work with Roland because he has pushed Roland a bit beyond the
> Italian race bike model, with some wider clearances and more practical
> designs.  My last DS was pretty much built by Jake and some of you may have
> already seen pics of that.  Jake has what I think might be the only lugged,
> adventure, mountain bike, Roland ever made.
>
> Anyway, here is Barrett #1 with lots of pics.  We had a little event at
> the Dropout Bikeshop here in Reno for the Reno Rambler Cycling Club to
> unveil it.  Enjoy!
>
> http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/2017/12/theres-new-sheriff-in-town.html
>
> Addison Wilhite, M.A.
>
> Academy of Arts, Careers and Technology
> 
>
> *“Blazing the Trail to College and Career Success”*
>
> Educator: Professional Portfolio 
>
> Blogger: Reno Rambler 
>
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Re: [RBW] René Herse: The Beauty of Function

[Lee Legrand]

*Herse made his bikes so stunning despite (or rather, because of) their
simplicity*



   - Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication (William Gaddis)
   - It seems that perfection is attained not when there nothing more to
   add but when there is nothing more to remove. (Antoine de Saint Exupery)
   - Simplicity is prerequisite for reliability. (Edsgere W. Dijkstra)


On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 11:00 AM, Jan Heine  wrote:

> We've admired René Herse's bikes for a their beauty, function and
> performance for many years. However, it took a long time to figure out just
> how Herse made his bikes so stunning despite (or rather, because of) their
> simplicity... We share some of the secrets of the 'magician of Levallois'
> in this blog post:
>
> https://janheine.wordpress.com/2017/12/14/rene-herse-the-
> beauty-of-function/
>
> Enjoy!
>
> Jan Heine
> Editor
> Bicycle Quarterly
> Seattle, WA
> www.bikequarterly.com
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Fixed Flywheel for the Brain

[Lee Legrand]

Hi Deacon,

I have a question to the last part.  Do you eat off a low table since you
are floor living?

On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 6:16 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:

> Ha, Chris! Conventional wisdom is an oxymoron. Which is either a moron on
> oxygen or oxycodon. Grin. I can’t see a reason why pedal retention is
> required to make fixed safe. I can see why people who like it on
> freewheeled bikes like it on fixed bikes. My feet haven’t come off the
> pedals unbidden once.
>
> On the vertigo note, feel free to write me off group, but have you tried
> nutty things like floor living and minimalist shoes?
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Found Upright riding worse than drops riding.

[Lee Legrand]

Hi Lum,

I cannot find the earlier discussion I had mentioned this but have you
tried these bars on a bicycle?  They are mustache bars with a smaller
drop.  I believe SOMAFAB has them as a 3 speed mustache bar.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/pereiracycles/3983134786/

http://store.somafab.com/soma3speedbar.html

Just a suggestion but if you going towards drops again.  That will be the
ends of me saying anything.

On Sat, Dec 9, 2017 at 8:06 PM, 'Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> I'm not sure that my riding position qualifies as "upright" as being
> discussed in this thread but all of my bikes end up with the handlebars
> 7-8cm higher than my saddle and I consider my position to be upright.
>  After years of discomfort, no matter what I tried, I accidently discovered
> that my reach to the bar has to be much longer than I thought.   I'm 5'11"
> and I'm riding a bike with a 61cm ETT, a 17 degree 110mm stem and that is
> the only combo that has given me any kind of comfort.  All of my rides are
> short but I experienced pain almost immediately with a shorter reach.
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Found Upright riding worse than drops riding.

[Lee Legrand]

What about recumbent bicycle?  It puts you in a position in which it should
(at least I think it should) remove the stress from arms and buttocks that
a typical bicycle puts you in.  It may not the coolest looking way of
cycling but I think it should be an option for aging cyclist who can no
longer be in the bent position of road drops or be upright due to back or
buttock pains.

On Sat, Dec 9, 2017 at 1:42 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Several people have described this experience on the list. I've found, as
> have others, that sometimes you relieve, not only your seat, but your
> shoulders, arms, and hands by moving the saddle back to get more of an
> angle between hip and pedals, and let your torso muscles hold more of your
> torso's weight.
>
> This happens not only with drops but with bars of all sorts, IME.
>
> On Sat, Dec 9, 2017 at 8:23 AM, lum gim fong 
> wrote:
>
>> So I converted the Bleriot to upright so I could ride wifespeeds without
>> hand discomfort  that comes with riding that slow for an entire ride on
>> drops.
>>
>>  What I have found, in riding upright,  is that the discomfort of the
>> hands is reduced 75% and the butt discomfort 100% increase ( which was
>> nonexistent when I rode with drops) makes me want to just go back to drops.
>> I am more comfortable riding at wifespeed (and all other speeds) with
>> drops, turns out. No matter the bar heights or saddles.
>>
>> Also, headwinds are noticably more noticeable and wintry blasts harder to
>> endure while upright.
>>
>> I don't think I have never heard of someone on this list, or from Walnut
>> Creek finding uprighting to be less comfortable than dropsing. So I thought
>> I'd include it as a datapoint here.
>>
>> Has anyone here also found upriding to not be their cup of tea?
>>
>> I will say though that upriding provides fantastic views.
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
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Re: [RBW] Found Upright riding worse than drops riding.

[Lee Legrand]

Hi Steve,

I do not know what set up will do that but maybe he should perform
experiments on different drop bars or mustache type bars which have smaller
drops than typical road drop bars.  It is just a suggestion for him to
explore.  SOMAFAB has mustache type bars for him to explore that do not
have the typical drops.

On Sat, Dec 9, 2017 at 11:48 AM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:

>
>
> On 12/09/2017 10:55 AM, lum gim fong wrote:
>
>> Interesting you say 40 miles, Steve. It was at that distance that I
>> noticed my hands getting massively fatigued (Sam/Albas/Tallux max
>> height/max aft). And that was when riding solo at my own pace. Cork grips
>> are hard as rocks. That's when I found that out. But I don't think it was
>> really the grips. Because I would get marks in my hands from upright riding
>> and I could always feel the pressure on my hands at any bar height with
>> uprights.
>>
>
> Exactly.
>
> --
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> Alexandria, Virginia
> USA
>
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Re: [RBW] Found Upright riding worse than drops riding.

[Lee Legrand]

Hi Lum,

Have you thought about getting a set up that allows you to go from one
extent to another?  Another way of saying is, can you get a bicycle setup
in which you can ride upright for the most part and when you butt feet
uncomfortable, you can get down more to relieve the stress?  Then you
oscillate between the two positions of aching butt and aching hands?

On Sat, Dec 9, 2017 at 11:19 AM, Justin, Oakland 
wrote:

> I have found a few things to be true:
> - Upright doesn’t have to mean Albatross bars at max height. I’m upright
> with my MAP bars which allow my wrists to bend somewhat similarly to hoods.
> - Saddles tend to need be differently shaped/positioned to ride in
> different postures.
> - Geometry of a bike can make it not great for different people riding in
> different positions. My Bleriot was always drop bars or Jitensha bars.
> - I kind of hate Albatross bars too. Riding them isn’t a fun for me but
> actually can be terrifying based on how they are set up.
>
> -Justin
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Best Rack for a large saddlesack on a large frame?

[Lee Legrand]

Hi Isaac,

Who makes your saddlebag?  Carradice sell saddlebag supports for their bags
if have thiers and should work with other saddlebags that have design and
sizing.  Rear racks will work if you think you need it because it is too
large.

On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 5:09 AM, Jay in Tel Aviv  wrote:

> I have the opposite issue.
> With my76 cm saddle height, the large saddle sack sits a little too close
> to the rack, pushing up the bottom of the bag in the middle and wasting
> space.
> Be glad you have the room.
>
> Jay
>
> On Wednesday, November 29, 2017 at 8:23:51 PM UTC+2, Wally Estrella wrote:
>>
>> I can get a pic a med & lg Saddlesack atop a Pletscher rack on my 64
>> Atlantis.  Give me a day or so.  Might even be tonight.  I'll post it up on
>> IG and tag you on it.
>>
>> CHEERS!
>> Wally "sailing a DTT Atlantis on any day is the Sea of Tranquility" in
>> Maine
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 28, 2017 at 9:13:05 PM UTC-5, Birdman wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey bunch,
>>>
>>> I'm building up a 65cm Double TT Atlantis (yay, dream bike!).  I'd like
>>> to use a large saddlesack for short tours and wonder what rack support
>>> might be best for a large frame.  I was planning to use a 33R large rear
>>> rack before I decided on a saddlesack, but now I wonder how well it will
>>> work with the large frame, my 95 pbh, and subsequent saddle height. From
>>> pictures, it looks like the saddlesack will need to attach to the saddle
>>> with a rack high enough and close enough to the seat tube to support the
>>> bag.  Maybe there's more wiggle room and adjustability with the R14 rack?
>>> Anyway, I thought I'd tap the collective wisdom here before calling Riv
>>> HQ.  Any thoughts? Am I over thinking this?
>>>
>>> Isaac
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Calling Ron Mc for handlebar comparison photo

[Lee Legrand]

http://store.somafab.com/sysibar.html

On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 12:31 PM, 'Clayton' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Alan,
>
> I have had a bunch of back and wrist surgeries so I am in a similar
> situation. I am also a weirdo that is ulnar positive, where my ulna is
> longer than the radius. I have tried every kind of bar looking for comfort
> and pain relief.  My solution is swept dropped bars, mounted high. I found
> I need the bottom at the same height as the seat. The lower position is not
> too low to use as my default position and is where I normally ride, while
> the hoods and tops offer a 'sit upright and take a break' position. Being
> able to move my hands around helps prevent the worst of hand numbness and
> pain. As far as 'flat' bars, I would highly recommend the Sycip Singles
> Bar. For me on my Atlantis, it is the perfect flat bar. They are wide, have
> a nice sweep, are absorbent, and reasonably priced. I have tried the
> Albatross, Moustache, Albastache, and some Ti swept bars, and the Sycip
> won.
>
> Clayton (Bendite)
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Calling Ron Mc for handlebar comparison photo

[Lee Legrand]

Hi Irreguleur,

He may have problems with swept back bars.  Here is a hypothesis.  Cycling
is one of those modern activities that anatomically we are not built to do
but we can do it but doing something that we are not built to do has risk.
Risk being we develop health issues and possibly deformities.  For example,
we are not built to be sitting in a chair for 8 hours a day typing at a
desk that long.  Consequences of that is the we develop meta carpel
syndrome which is repeated stress syndrome and we see this happening in all
types of activities like runners who develop knee and hip issues due to
warn ligaments.  Cycling has the same problem in which we can develop weak
bones which is a form of osteoporosis and I have seen cyclist with hump
backs from being bent over on the drops from many years of cycling.  I
think some of those issue can be resolved if strengthening is part of the
regime and activities like cycling is not taken to extreme and balance with
stretching and strength training.  I do not know if Alan has deformities
that may be contributing to his back pain while cycling and swept back may
not be the solution either since a more vertical position may increase or
decrease stress on his back. Strengthening may not be a solution either
which is why I think he should get a fit or do some research on how to be
on a bicycle and see if he can get his body more in line with that and
experiment.

On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 9:53 AM, Irreguleur  wrote:

> Let’s not throw swept back bars into the same category of flats. Very
> different.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Calling Ron Mc for handlebar comparison photo

[Lee Legrand]

Hi Alan,

I have the issue with too much pressure on my hands while riding which I
think is related to my fit being not stretched out enough although from a
structural, it would seem that more pressure could possibly be put on the
hands if stretched out even further.  I think the issue is that we need
strong mid-sections and possibly learn to balance the upper body with
structurally strong mid section.  Have you thought about exercising the mid
section or getting a fit done?  This may help with the back.

Regards,

On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 9:35 AM, Steven Sweedler  wrote:

> Alan, it certainly seems Riv has moved mostly to flat bars, I tried a set
> of North Road (typical older 3 speed bars) on a commuter and didn’t like
> them,I never felt very secure on descents, still much prefer drops. I have
> 48 noodles on  my bikes, I’m 66 and not especially flexible, bars and
> saddle are level. Steve
> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>
> On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 7:33 AM alan lavine  wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the info, Evan.  I was hoping to see that photo because they
>> all have slightly different shapes, even though similar.
>>
>> Curious about how many others are slowly moving away from drop bars, as I
>> am.  For me, its definitely an aging/arthritis/flexibilty issue.  But I
>> find that too upright makes my back hurt, as the vertical forces are
>> transmitted straight up and down the spine.  Finding that Goldilocks spot
>> is a challenge...been through many cockpits last few years!
>>
>> Alan
>> NYC
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, November 25, 2017 at 9:16:01 PM UTC-5, Doug H. wrote:
>>>
>>> I just replaced drop bars on my Trek 520 with Rivendell’s Albastache and
>>> a Nitto Dirt Drop Stem. It feels like a new bike. Upright but with several
>>> hand positions.
>>
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Re: [RBW] MUSA button down shirts available at RivBike

[Lee Legrand]

Hide it from your wife Bill. :)

On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 11:29 AM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> Recent instagram photos of GP have shown him in a MUSA dress shirt with
> multi-colored buttons.  Now they are for sale.  Cue up all the standard
> comments...
>
> Here's my standard comment re: MUSA clothing in general:
>
> I would totally rock that shirt.  My wife would shake her head and make me
> get rid of it.  Maybe I'll get one and use it purely as a cycling shirt
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Casual Observations on Japanese Metropolitan Area Bike Transportation

[Lee Legrand]

Hi Bob,

Nice write up.  Too bad we cant live in a society with similar positives as
those shown in your post about Japan.

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 10:53 AM, Bob B  wrote:

> Nice video Jim. Love the idea of the "Gaman" spirit.
>
> It reminded me of this kinda korny but super interesting video on bicycle
> culture in Japan  I saw a
> few years ago, which was part of the "Cool Japan" campaign (state-sponsored
> cultural propaganda).
>
> Particularly interesting is the section on "power-assisted" bicycles
> . Boy, is the perception about
> e-bikes different there. Main takeaway: power-assisted bikes are to help
> people get up hills without straining. Not to break the sound barrier.
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, November 21, 2017 at 10:21:52 AM UTC-5, Jim S. wrote:
>>
>> Cool video re cycling in Tokyo:
>>
>> https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2016/03/tokyo-bike-
>> lane-streetfilm-gaman-spirit-video/471945/
>>
>> They don't have separate bike lanes. Everyone is just civil and
>> cooperative to each other. In this area, I think Japan's lack of cultural
>> diversity works in its favor. Re crime, my sense, with no actual knowledge,
>> is that your bike is almost never going to get stolen.
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Minimalist cycling shoe article.

[Lee Legrand]

Hi Patrick,

I do not have an answer to why high heel may be worse or better and would
be open just like you to the evidence.  Also, I think the evidence is there
but you may not be aware of it. Rarely do I see anyone mentioning anything
other than the typical raised heel or giving a shoe in the market that as a
alternative.  They do not have to say it but merely offer you what the
market will  allow or take by offering you the only the choice to make. As
I mentioned in the previous post, if public transportation is a better
solution than people driving car or bicycling is better for your health and
the health of the city you live in, why do people in mast not go in that
direction?  Do you hear anything about that in your area about how public
transportation is better than having a car in already crowded cities?  I am
on the east coast and almost never hear anything about it and cities are
getting over crowded,especially in my state.  So they do not have to say
anything explicitly towards you but frame discussion or omit alternative
completely from the discussion.  In that, you are locked in to a frame of
looking at the world.


On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:29 AM, Patrick Moore <bertin...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Lee: For my mind, at any rate, the question about the benefits or
> detriments of heels remains open; I just haven't heard sufficiently good
> evidence either way and, again, the argument "all the others are doing it
> wrong" seems to me to be a dangerously 2-edged sword.
>
> Respectfully, I don't yet see sufficient evidence that people wear
> conventional shoes merely because marketing has them bamboozled, or because
> society has refused them alternatives. I am very open to hearing more about
> the health benefits of no shoes, or no heels, but you all need to give more
> information than "*this *worked for me" and "*that* happens only because
> marketers or powers-that-be make it happen" -- ie, personal experience on
> the one hand, and conjecture on the other. Again, I am very open to hearing
> more and clearer evidence about pros and cons of heels and no heels, and
> for that matter, shoes and no shoes, but I haven't yet seen it. Indeed, I
> am if anything biased toward no heels since Romans and Indians and Chinese
> and Maya and Zulu all thrived without European type shoes; but then they
> don't live in Germany or Zurich or damp England, either. (Cetschwayo's
> impis could cover 50 miles in a day over rough bush terrain while barefoot.)
>
> One more anecdote: I recall as a boy recently moved to India, remarking at
> the high arches of laborers who of course went barefoot on asphalt as they
> did their daily work pushing and carrying and hewing and drawing. No shoes
> didn't seem to hurt them. But then, I've known very old people whose feet
> didn't hurt after 8 decades of modern shoes.
>
> BTW, Lee, it's apparent to me that societies don't "progress" in a
> unilateral way; they progress in certain ways and regress on others; it's
> aways a combination.
>
> On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 8:53 AM, Lee Legrand <krm2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Patrick,
>>
>> I would not use the word stupid since a society is not always progressing
>> but can remain stagnant because of cultural conditioning and society tend
>> to change slowly or resist change.  Anyway, it may be due to wear but I am
>> not aware of the reason why shoes have heels and it may be true what Peter
>> has said.  I always thought it was a fashion thing. Sometimes things do not
>> change due to market forces which see that expensive of retooling or
>> research to get into profits.  Availability of having a shoe or choices of
>> shoes are very limited as well since living in a society does not mean we
>> really have choices.  For example, it may be to have better public
>> transportation in society to reduce air pollution but the only choice we
>> have in some circumstances is to just get a car and these choices are
>> driven by markets since it is more advantages (if you are a business man
>> that relies on people having them and you are selling them) than to go
>> toward other ways of traveling like using bikes or public transportation
>> such as buses and trains.  We see this played out in society in all kinds
>> of ways to drive out ideas because they are bad but bad means bad for
>> business.  Also, would not a thicker sole help with the wear?  It may be my
>> foot but I rarely buy new shoes because the sole has worn down but because
>> they are completely worn.  Just saying.
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 10:32 AM, Patrick Moore <bertin...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Heels may well add nothing to foot health, but apparently they don'

Re: [RBW] 650b Nokian/Suomi A10 tires may not be available

[Lee Legrand]

For all those who will need this tire but cant get them from Mr. White or
other supplier.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/hjupiter/bikes-diys?utm_term=.njo9eXk3Vv#.hbaNe5p9RZ

See DIY #18

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Peter White  wrote:

> We had been expecting to have the A10 650b tires by the middle of October.
> However, not only have they not arrived yet, we still have not received
> confirmation from Suomi in Finland that they have even shipped. So, I doubt
> that we will have these available this winter.
>
> --
> Peter White
> Peter White Cycles LLC
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Minimalist cycling shoe article.

[Lee Legrand]

Hi Patrick,

I would not use the word stupid since a society is not always progressing
but can remain stagnant because of cultural conditioning and society tend
to change slowly or resist change.  Anyway, it may be due to wear but I am
not aware of the reason why shoes have heels and it may be true what Peter
has said.  I always thought it was a fashion thing. Sometimes things do not
change due to market forces which see that expensive of retooling or
research to get into profits.  Availability of having a shoe or choices of
shoes are very limited as well since living in a society does not mean we
really have choices.  For example, it may be to have better public
transportation in society to reduce air pollution but the only choice we
have in some circumstances is to just get a car and these choices are
driven by markets since it is more advantages (if you are a business man
that relies on people having them and you are selling them) than to go
toward other ways of traveling like using bikes or public transportation
such as buses and trains.  We see this played out in society in all kinds
of ways to drive out ideas because they are bad but bad means bad for
business.  Also, would not a thicker sole help with the wear?  It may be my
foot but I rarely buy new shoes because the sole has worn down but because
they are completely worn.  Just saying.

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 10:32 AM, Patrick Moore <bertin...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Heels may well add nothing to foot health, but apparently they don't hurt,
> to judge by the 80 and 90 year olds I've known who wore heeled shoes and
> remained ambulatory until very near death without any foot complaints!
>
> I'm still open to the answer; it's obvious that millennia of people got by
> without heels. I just don't believe that centuries of societies are as
> stupid as they've been made out to be, if heels were merely fashion or
> cluelessness. One could turn the question around and ask why minimalist
> shoes, as those "earth shoes" and other designs, seem to come up every
> decade or 2 and then disappear?
>
> What happened to Crocks, by the way?
>
> On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 8:11 AM, Lee Legrand <krm2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hey Peter,
>>
>> It may last longer but what does this say about foot health?  I think
>> that is central to the minimalist shoe idea and to this post.  Not how
>> shoes last longer but is a raise heel better for your feet?
>>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Minimalist cycling shoe article.

[Lee Legrand]

Hey Peter,

It may last longer but what does this say about foot health?  I think that
is central to the minimalist shoe idea and to this post.  Not how shoes
last longer but is a raise heel better for your feet?

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 4:19 AM, Peter Turskovitch 
wrote:

> Thick heels last longer. That's what they're for. They exist to allow you
> to walk farther before replacing your shoes. The vast majority of shoes,
> for centuries, have had a little extra material in the places that wear the
> most. That means raised heels. Raised heels mean that your shoes can last
> far longer before replacement. I'm surprised that this isn't common
> knowledge.
>
> Where I live, decent boots have separate heels and fore-foot soles, both
> of which are replaceable. Cobblers often have a display of Vibram-brand
> replacement heels in their windows. Anecdotally, cobblers are about as
> common in Zürich as dry cleaners. Getting your shoes re-heeled is a super
> common thing to do. Bankers here are semi-famous for having low or even
> absent heels on their shoes, ostentatiously displaying their ability to
> replace entire shoes when the sole wears a little.
>
> I understand that this list is mostly American - do you really not replace
> the soles of your shoes in America? How can you people think that heels
> "serve no purpose" despite being a feature of shoes for literal millenia?
> As if any mere fashion could be so stable???
>
> Peter, confused, Zürich
>
>
>
>
> On Monday, November 20, 2017 at 1:04:43 AM UTC+1, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>
>> Humans are highly adaptable, and we often adapt to things less than ideal
>> and yet continue to do amazing things along the way. Democracy of the herd
>> buying mostly raised heels doesn’t answer the question: what does a raised
>> heel accomplish?
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Minimalist cycling shoe article.

[Lee Legrand]

Hi Lum,

I see how they are using it from the ad.

It reminds me when I have discussions of people who buy organic chicken.
What is organic chicken?  Its chicken that eats organic food that is mostly
some kind grain but chicken natural diets are not grain and include greens,
seeds, insects and worms. It is a marketing tool that associates organic
with healthy and if you eat organic chicken you are choosing a healthy
chicken and eating healthy which may not be the case since we are feeding
them something closer to cheerios than their natural food.   When I see how
they are using minimal, it is like that in which they are changing the
meaning of the word to sell something which appears to be healthy.  I am
not a podiatrist but I do think there is something to having wider box
shoes and less heel but I also think our ancestors if they walked bare
foots lived in areas where there were minimal hard surfaces for our feet
and they walked and ran on cushy soil which I think would play a part in a
healthy foot.  Minimal has a specific meaning but companies use advertisers
and propagandist to change meaning in order to sell an idea.  The original
meaning of minimal is having less or what is necessary for function but
they are using it to how associate it with low heel shoes with box toe.  It
is not a minimal shoe but a type of shoe and has nothing to do, in my
opinion, with minimal.  We have podiatric shoes available but why are they
not minimal as well? Why isnt a cycling shoe minimal? We can make the case
if I own 3 cycling shoes but if I have 1, I am still living minimal since
no shoe is good at every function (walking in snow, hiking in  woods,
walking, running etc).  It is marketing used to sell an idea and it
probably requires alot more knowledge on our part to validate whether this
choice of shoes is actual great for our feet.  Like, not only would I have
to know podiatrics, but anthropology for the origins of people, their
footwear (if they wore something like shoes) and environment in which they
flourished.  I should be able to trust that my society that produces
products that it is scientifically sound or to the best of its knowledge
that these products will not hurt people since it is impossible to know
everything.

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 6:56 PM, lum gim fong  wrote:

> @Lee:
>
> Looking into it online, it seems that a minimalist shoe is defined as a
> shoe that is a:
>
> protective and ornamental foot covering that has zero drop (no elevation
> of heel), completely flat (level) support base from heel to toe, wide toe
> box (allowing toes to splay freely and inline with metatarsals), flexible
> sole, and is widest at the ends of the toes, allowing your feet to function
> like a bare foot inside the shoe.
>
> Here is an example of a minimalist shoe vendor:  https://
> naturalfootgear.com/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAl8rQBRDrARIsAEW_To-guXA0skc-
> o85dg8s0BkZK4VXAmed4q7XmedrNUU1XifrSM94_efcaAkcaEALw_wcB
>
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Re: [RBW] Minimalist cycling shoe article.

[Lee Legrand]

Hey Lum,

Can you explain to me what you mean by minimalist?  My first reaction to
the word is minimal requirements for living and survival but you seem to
use it in another way.  How does minimal relate to shoe's or shoe's with no
heel?  Technically any style of shoe can be considered minimal or having a
pair that does double duty for things is living minimal.  Just trying to
get a understanding from your view.

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:46 AM, lum gim fong  wrote:

> Absolutely nothing wrong with regular shoes for cycling. My Nike's got me
> thru all my centuries and 200k with ease.  I just posted the article
> because I saw it as akin to Grant's articles about bike hacks, and it
> mentioned a minimal shoe (for the minimalists here), and it also discussed
> Catalyst pedals which I know are of interest to some here.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Minimalist cycling shoe article.

[Lee Legrand]

Hi Bruce,

I think they are mixing form and function.  The idea behind this is that
you are supposed to have a minimalist heal on the shoe but this applies to
walking and running, not cycling which has a another criteria. The rigid
sole for cycling is there for a reason and is it is related to cycling, not
how you walk.  I think an argument can be made for foot health that a
cycling shoe should be made wider but I am not a podiatrist.

On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 1:22 PM, Lee Legrand <krm2...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Garth,
>
> You are right in that health is not in a body part but I think shoes are
> built around the idea of narrow feet and what looks good as opposed regards
> to a foot is supposed to look like when it is healthy.  The LEMS shoes are
> wide box meaning they are have a box wide foot area up front because feet
> are supposed to function freely and not confined with a case like a shoe,
> at least that is my understanding of the website.  Feet are supposed to be
> wide and this promotes a healthy feet in that, you do not have bunions or
> foot deformities that come from wearing a narrow foot shoe.  In addition,
> the modern look of a shoe does not take into account those who have natural
> wide feet and as a person who does have wide feet, you see there are fewer
> selections of footwear.  If I would buy this shoes, it would fit me only
> because the box area is already wide and I do not have to check if it is
> wide enough for my feet to fit like a typical shoe but it is still not wide
> enough in a sense that it fits me well, but according to there philosophy,
> the box should actually be WIDER since my toes should be splayed out
> further.
>
> On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 12:26 PM, Garth <garth...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Well gee, "health" is not isolated to any one body part, it either IS in
>> entirety or not at all, and there is no not.
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Minimalist cycling shoe article.

[Lee Legrand]

Hi Garth,

You are right in that health is not in a body part but I think shoes are
built around the idea of narrow feet and what looks good as opposed regards
to a foot is supposed to look like when it is healthy.  The LEMS shoes are
wide box meaning they are have a box wide foot area up front because feet
are supposed to function freely and not confined with a case like a shoe,
at least that is my understanding of the website.  Feet are supposed to be
wide and this promotes a healthy feet in that, you do not have bunions or
foot deformities that come from wearing a narrow foot shoe.  In addition,
the modern look of a shoe does not take into account those who have natural
wide feet and as a person who does have wide feet, you see there are fewer
selections of footwear.  If I would buy this shoes, it would fit me only
because the box area is already wide and I do not have to check if it is
wide enough for my feet to fit like a typical shoe but it is still not wide
enough in a sense that it fits me well, but according to there philosophy,
the box should actually be WIDER since my toes should be splayed out
further.

On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 12:26 PM, Garth  wrote:

> Well gee, "health" is not isolated to any one body part, it either IS in
> entirety or not at all, and there is no not.
>
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Re: [RBW] Minimalist cycling shoe article.

[Lee Legrand]

I do not think I would destroy a shoe for a wider box.  Cycling shoes are
pretty expensive up front and cutting them like that only means I will have
to replace them sooner.  The other thing is that cycling is different than
walking but he is applying foot health for walking unto cycling and cycling
probably uses different foot muscles.  I plan to get a wide box toe gym
shoe one day but I do not think that translate to cycling since those are
different activities.  Like a football player doing powerlifting to become
more explosive.  You have to train the movement to get better at it, not do
something else in hopes that it offers benefit to somethings else.

On Sun, Nov 19, 2017 at 1:39 AM, lum gim fong  wrote:

> https://naturalfootgear.com/blogs/education/17861648-cycling-shoe-surgery
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Beartown Mountain Overnight, Cheviot, Rain, Question

[Lee Legrand]

Nice pics Phil. I especially like the one where you riding in the rain.

On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 8:53 AM, Philip Kim  wrote:

> this looks like a lot of fun!
>
> On Sunday, October 29, 2017 at 10:14:59 PM UTC-4, Antone Könst wrote:
>>
>> 718 Cycles  in Brooklyn just led a
>> great overnight 'Micro-tour' to Beartown Mountain Park, MA, which I did on
>> my Cheviot.  It was an s240 if you don't count the 3 hours each way on the
>> train and the 40 minute ride to Grand Central.  Total was about 40 miles
>> each way, so it was more fun than work but I'm not complaining about that.
>>
>> The ride was wonderful, really really fun, with the leaves changing, and
>> accidentally adventurous because I brought a friend who I thought had more
>> riding experience (he'd never changed gears and is developing some serious
>> scar tissue on his chin after attempting a downtube shift while going down
>> a hill pretty fast).The way up was blue skies and we got some surprise
>> trail riding in for a number of miles, which made my Barlow Pass tires
>> worth the $.  On the way home we had pouring rain from 5:30 am straight
>> through, which was actually more fun than on the way up - and it was also
>> pretty much down-hill for ~40 miles.  The rain made me appreciate my
>> Carradice bags, which I hung on a Jandd front (they are rear panniers), and
>> made me appreciate a little less my Sackville Shop sack which became a very
>> useful bucket for my kit to float in, despite folding the zipper down.  I
>> know, it's a California bag, but it was a bucket in NY, CT, and MA this
>> morning :).  I still love it.
>> My Chev was incredible, it was super stable down hills fast (my Paul
>> Racers were not so useful at the bottom of these hills, in the rain), and
>> my fendered tail light and Dlux front light were increidbly useful with the
>> dynamo hub.
>>
>> *My question for you, after the trip* is *how do I add a granny gear?*
>> Right now I'm 1x8 with 34 in front and 11-26 in back, and the steeper hills
>> killed me, especially because I was carrying my friend's gear too.  Do I
>> get a new 12-36 cassette and a Deore XT, or do I get a wide/low crankset
>> and put my front derailleur back on?   I honestly have no idea, I'm new to
>> thinking about the drivetrain creatively.  The randonneuring guys with us
>> seemed very happy with their 3 chainrings, and the people on their 1x9 or
>> 10 set ups also seemed happy, the Rolhoff people didn't recommend it.  So
>> I'm at a loss, please advise!
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] FS: 2017 Brompton M6L w/ upgrades - $1900 shipped

[Lee Legrand]

Always thought having a bicycle and a brompton bicycle was a nice set.  One
for commuting, errand and traveling, the other for any other type of riding
style that one does.

On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 12:24 PM, Belopsky 
wrote:

> I have a problem. (Step 1 is admitting it, right?)
>
>
> I want the Clem L (maybe even the Cheviot, though my wife has one of those
> and we should diversify), but in order to do so, something else must go.
>
>
>
> This is the 6 speed model w/ fenders.
>
> Titanium seatpost
> Titanium handlebars (slightly higher rise)
> Ergon GP1 BioKork grips
> SON Dynamo front wheel
> Busch front light
> Busch rear light
> Schwalbe Kojak tires
> MKS EZ-Y pedals
> Brooks B17
> Brompton Front bag
>
> I am including the original front wheel, original Brompton tires (10miles)
> and a pair of studded tires (new). Stock bars and seatpost will also be
> included.
>
> Photo shows a TA crankset however the stock crankset will be put on before
> shipping.
> There was a recall on the bottom bracket which was recently replaced by my
> Brompton dealer.
>
> Album
> 
>
> $1900 shipped
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

[Lee Legrand]

I stand corrected by Bill.

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 6:16 PM, Bill Lindsay <tapebu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> If you think that list is a retrogrouch list, then I don't know what you
> mean with the word "retrogrouch".  To me, retrogrouch means "I like this
> old thing, and the new thing is crap, and I don't even have to try it to
> know I hate it".
>
> Rivendell is not pro-friction-shifting.  Rivendell thinks index shifters
> work great, and friction shifters work great, and your foot shifts the
> chain fine, and a stick is OK to shift your chain.
>
> High bars on expensive bikes is not an old-proven-design.  Bolt upright on
> an expensive bike is revolutionary to the point of offending some people
> because it's so non-traditional
>
> Riding for fun over racing is breaking from the tradition of the last 45
> years, not sticking with the tradition.  Riv started the revolution.  They
> didn't stay back, they plowed forward
>
> Lugged steel over carbon is choosing "a bike that will last >50 years"
> over "not that".  It has nothing to do with tradition or sticking with
> something because it is old.  Anybody who wants to make a frame that will
> last over 50 years of hard use will make it from steel or titanium.
>
> Wider tires is an evolution in the entire industry.  Everybody has figured
> it out and is evolving.  Wide tires is the cool new thing, not the cool old
> thing.
>
> Actual "retro" people would rather see more Rivendells that look like
> Italian racing bikes of the 1970's and 1980's or French Randonneur bikes
> from the 1930's through 1950's.  Those old proven designs are awesome, and
> there are many places you can get bikes that copy those old proven
> designs.  Rivendell doesn't do that stuff because that stuff has been
> done.  The reason they don't copy those old proven designs is because
> Rivendell is not retro.  They are definitely not grouchy, either.
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 2:45:34 PM UTC-7, Lee Legrand wrote:
>>
>> Bill there are retrogrouch aspects of it.
>>
>> Friction shifting
>> High bars for riding
>> Riding for enjoyment rather than fast pace road cycling
>> Lugged steel frame vs composite
>> Tires wider than 25 mm (this is more bucking the system)
>>
>> I view Rivendell as a company that makes bicycle for the vast majority of
>> people who do not want to wear lycra and have super duper fast bicycles but
>> want to ride bicycle for pure enjoyment and travel on tours.  The answer is
>> probably somewhere in the middle between retro and never been built before
>> bicycles.
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 5:09 PM, Bill Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> It is my opinion that the people who think Rivendell is either "retro"
>>> or "retrogrouch" are taking an EXTREMELY short-sighted view of things.  You
>>> can't see the forest for the lugs if you think Rivendell is using old
>>> proven designs.  Lugged-steel is an old proven construction method,
>>> perhaps.  The 'design' of the machine is a lot more than the construction
>>> method.  Rivendell does not copy or replicate any old proven designs.  They
>>> design bikes that have never been built before by anyone, ever.
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 12:56:28 PM UTC-7, Lee Legrand wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I always thought Rivish was centered around the retrogrouch philosophy
>>>> in which steel lugged frame, wide tires for comfort, bicycling is for
>>>> enjoyment and travel over speed, modern technology is good but the old
>>>> design has proven itself to work well, therefore no need to constantly move
>>>> with trends.
>>>>
>>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

[Lee Legrand]

Bill there are retrogrouch aspects of it.

Friction shifting
High bars for riding
Riding for enjoyment rather than fast pace road cycling
Lugged steel frame vs composite
Tires wider than 25 mm (this is more bucking the system)

I view Rivendell as a company that makes bicycle for the vast majority of
people who do not want to wear lycra and have super duper fast bicycles but
want to ride bicycle for pure enjoyment and travel on tours.  The answer is
probably somewhere in the middle between retro and never been built before
bicycles.

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 5:09 PM, Bill Lindsay <tapebu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> It is my opinion that the people who think Rivendell is either "retro" or
> "retrogrouch" are taking an EXTREMELY short-sighted view of things.  You
> can't see the forest for the lugs if you think Rivendell is using old
> proven designs.  Lugged-steel is an old proven construction method,
> perhaps.  The 'design' of the machine is a lot more than the construction
> method.  Rivendell does not copy or replicate any old proven designs.  They
> design bikes that have never been built before by anyone, ever.
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
>
> On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 12:56:28 PM UTC-7, Lee Legrand wrote:
>>
>> I always thought Rivish was centered around the retrogrouch philosophy in
>> which steel lugged frame, wide tires for comfort, bicycling is for
>> enjoyment and travel over speed, modern technology is good but the old
>> design has proven itself to work well, therefore no need to constantly move
>> with trends.
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: What is a Rivvish bike?

[Lee Legrand]

I always thought Rivish was centered around the retrogrouch philosophy in
which steel lugged frame, wide tires for comfort, bicycling is for
enjoyment and travel over speed, modern technology is good but the old
design has proven itself to work well, therefore no need to constantly move
with trends.

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 3:47 PM, Christopher Murray <
chrispmurra...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I think there are two ways to view this question. Riv-ish could be the
> style of Riv bikes (leather, lugs, bags, etc) or the idea of Riv bikes
> (bikes that work for the owner regardless of current trends or other
> people’s opinions). When most people say or hear Riv-ish I’d guess they
> think of the style. Will was obviously talking about the idea of Riv.
>
> It’s not that different than asking what makes a Ferrari- the styling or
> performance. I’d say the performance but an argument could be made for the
> styling as well.
>
> Cheers!
> Chris
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Wrecked my Atlantis

[Lee Legrand]

Garth,

Cant speak for anywhere else besides NJ since this is where I spent most of
my time. We can always generalize by saying there are bad drivers
everywhere, of course there is, but what of size do we see it? I do not
know everywhere but I do know of my driving experience in Jersey.  Its of
moderate size and although there are drivers of different states that come
thru, my experience of out of state drivers is that there are not as risky
oriented as New Jersey drivers and they tell me it is tough going thru
Jersey because of the traffic and driving style here.

To John,

Keep us posted on what you do with your Atlantis.

On Sat, Oct 14, 2017 at 11:34 AM, 'Ann L' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> I'm really sorry about the bike.  I  hope it turns out to be fixable.  I'm
> also glad you weren't seriously hurt.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Wrecked my Atlantis

[Lee Legrand]

I rescinded my last comment since it sounds rude but NJ drivers are not
like every driver in the 50 states no more than NJ/ NYC residence are like
every other resident in the fifty states.  Some states spring different
people based on the environment there.  I do think NJ/NYC residence are
more aggressive and can be course than say CA,WA or Oregon residence. All
due the environment which one is from and what people pick up from the
environment as norm.  So a person can do something that is normal but be
wrong in doing so because so many do it as well.  When it comes to driving,
I think this is the case.  I cant speak for other states but driving in NJ
and speaking to people in NJ which I am familiar with more, there is an
aggressiveness and yes, this does not mean everyone and I doubt it is just
a few but a moderate size.  The more you move away from the populus area of
the north, the more I think you wont see it as much. This is my last
comment because this post is not about NJ but a John Rivendell Atlantis.

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 10:27 PM, Lee Legrand <krm2...@gmail.com> wrote:

> It is not a particular person or thing.  New Jersey drivers are pretty
> bad. Not all but if you live in upper NJ driving down many main roads, you
> will find it the case.  I have never heard of anyone complain about any
> state drivers unlike NJ drivers.  These are facts people who live in upper
> NJ will complain will tell you.  Part of the reason for this is because the
> state is very congested and main roads can become pretty crowded to the
> point of a parking lot.  30 minute drives turn into hour or more during the
> week.  Summer is pretty bad since many people are going to the shore.  As a
> person who has lived here all my life, I pretty much try to stay off of the
> road.  I do not know if you live in the state or not but if you do not, you
> do not know what you are talking about.
>
> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 9:41 PM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes, Lee, actually what you wrote is the definition of "stereotype": a
>> widely held but fixed and oversimplified image or idea of a particular type
>> of person or thing.
>>
>> There are nutballs behind the wheel or on wheels in all fifty States and
>> many other places around the world. There are also many responsible drivers
>> and cyclists in New Jersey and elsewhere. There are lots of people in
>> between these two poles. Some people living in cities are hostile. Many are
>> not. Some people who own Rivendells only wear wool underwear. Many do not.
>> Etc.etc. etc.
>>
>> On Friday, October 13, 2017 at 7:18:03 PM UTC-4, Lee Legrand wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi John,
>>>
>>> I live in NJ and in the north.  It is not a stereotype, unfortunately.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 7:04 PM, John Hawrylak <john.h...@verizon.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I live in far southern NJ, very rural.  Although the northern people
>>>> may be tougher, the driving up in the Newark area is not much differnet
>>>> than in Philly or any major city.  I would be careful about too many
>>>> stereotypes.
>>>>
>>>> John Hawrylak
>>>> Woodstown NJ
>>>>
>>>> On Friday, October 13, 2017 at 10:46:23 AM UTC-4, Lee Legrand wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Its New Jersey Alan.
>>>>>
>>>>> Home of the worst drivers.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 10:41 AM, alan lavine <ciga...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> John,
>>>>>> Are you referring to "River Road" that runs through Palisades
>>>>>> Interstate Park?  We ride there all the time, and the riders heading 
>>>>>> south
>>>>>> reach very fast speeds, because they can.  I said to my wife just the 
>>>>>> other
>>>>>> day that when riding in the city, the other cyclists have become more
>>>>>> dangerous than the cars. Especially in Jersey.  Especially when crossing
>>>>>> the GW bridge.  Its just nuts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Glad you are OK, but it'll be rough getting out of bed tomorrow.  My
>>>>>> best..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>> NYC
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 7:30:11 PM UTC-4, John G. wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yesterday, at 5:30 in the morning, I collided head-on with another
>>>>>>> cyc

Re: [RBW] Re: Wrecked my Atlantis

[Lee Legrand]

It is not a particular person or thing.  New Jersey drivers are pretty bad.
Not all but if you live in upper NJ driving down many main roads, you will
find it the case.  I have never heard of anyone complain about any state
drivers unlike NJ drivers.  These are facts people who live in upper NJ
will complain will tell you.  Part of the reason for this is because the
state is very congested and main roads can become pretty crowded to the
point of a parking lot.  30 minute drives turn into hour or more during the
week.  Summer is pretty bad since many people are going to the shore.  As a
person who has lived here all my life, I pretty much try to stay off of the
road.  I do not know if you live in the state or not but if you do not, you
do not know what you are talking about.

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 9:41 PM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Yes, Lee, actually what you wrote is the definition of "stereotype": a
> widely held but fixed and oversimplified image or idea of a particular type
> of person or thing.
>
> There are nutballs behind the wheel or on wheels in all fifty States and
> many other places around the world. There are also many responsible drivers
> and cyclists in New Jersey and elsewhere. There are lots of people in
> between these two poles. Some people living in cities are hostile. Many are
> not. Some people who own Rivendells only wear wool underwear. Many do not.
> Etc.etc. etc.
>
> On Friday, October 13, 2017 at 7:18:03 PM UTC-4, Lee Legrand wrote:
>>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> I live in NJ and in the north.  It is not a stereotype, unfortunately.
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 7:04 PM, John Hawrylak <john.h...@verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I live in far southern NJ, very rural.  Although the northern people may
>>> be tougher, the driving up in the Newark area is not much differnet than in
>>> Philly or any major city.  I would be careful about too many stereotypes.
>>>
>>> John Hawrylak
>>> Woodstown NJ
>>>
>>> On Friday, October 13, 2017 at 10:46:23 AM UTC-4, Lee Legrand wrote:
>>>
>>>> Its New Jersey Alan.
>>>>
>>>> Home of the worst drivers.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 10:41 AM, alan lavine <ciga...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> John,
>>>>> Are you referring to "River Road" that runs through Palisades
>>>>> Interstate Park?  We ride there all the time, and the riders heading south
>>>>> reach very fast speeds, because they can.  I said to my wife just the 
>>>>> other
>>>>> day that when riding in the city, the other cyclists have become more
>>>>> dangerous than the cars. Especially in Jersey.  Especially when crossing
>>>>> the GW bridge.  Its just nuts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Glad you are OK, but it'll be rough getting out of bed tomorrow.  My
>>>>> best..
>>>>>
>>>>> Alan
>>>>> NYC
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 7:30:11 PM UTC-4, John G. wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yesterday, at 5:30 in the morning, I collided head-on with another
>>>>>> cyclist. I was on a path along the Hudson river on the Jersey side, and 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> guy had no lights.  And I went over the bars.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Thankfully, I'm all right, but my Atlantis is pretty messed up,  and
>>>>>> I'd like to get the lists advice . The fork is badly bent, and my local
>>>>>> shop thinks that the Head tube maybe messed up. They're stripping  it 
>>>>>> down
>>>>>> and sending it to Bilenky to see if it can be realigned. Do any of you
>>>>>> think that's a bad move?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  I don't want to think about how much worse it would've been if I had
>>>>>> been riding a carbon bike.  I'm pretty bummed. The worst part is that the
>>>>>> other guy swore at me and threw my water bottle at me while I was lying 
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> the ground.  Called me some names I won't repeat here, and rode off 
>>>>>> before
>>>>>> I was even able to get up.   Sometimes I really hate riding around here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, be safe out there and hug your Rivendells tonight!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>> You received this message because yo

Re: [RBW] Re: Wrecked my Atlantis

[Lee Legrand]

Hi John,

I live in NJ and in the north.  It is not a stereotype, unfortunately.

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 7:04 PM, John Hawrylak <john.hawry...@verizon.net>
wrote:

> I live in far southern NJ, very rural.  Although the northern people may
> be tougher, the driving up in the Newark area is not much differnet than in
> Philly or any major city.  I would be careful about too many stereotypes.
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
> On Friday, October 13, 2017 at 10:46:23 AM UTC-4, Lee Legrand wrote:
>
>> Its New Jersey Alan.
>>
>> Home of the worst drivers.
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 10:41 AM, alan lavine <ciga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> John,
>>> Are you referring to "River Road" that runs through Palisades Interstate
>>> Park?  We ride there all the time, and the riders heading south reach very
>>> fast speeds, because they can.  I said to my wife just the other day that
>>> when riding in the city, the other cyclists have become more dangerous than
>>> the cars. Especially in Jersey.  Especially when crossing the GW bridge.
>>> Its just nuts.
>>>
>>> Glad you are OK, but it'll be rough getting out of bed tomorrow.  My
>>> best..
>>>
>>> Alan
>>> NYC
>>>
>>> On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 7:30:11 PM UTC-4, John G. wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yesterday, at 5:30 in the morning, I collided head-on with another
>>>> cyclist. I was on a path along the Hudson river on the Jersey side, and the
>>>> guy had no lights.  And I went over the bars.
>>>>
>>>>  Thankfully, I'm all right, but my Atlantis is pretty messed up,  and
>>>> I'd like to get the lists advice . The fork is badly bent, and my local
>>>> shop thinks that the Head tube maybe messed up. They're stripping  it down
>>>> and sending it to Bilenky to see if it can be realigned. Do any of you
>>>> think that's a bad move?
>>>>
>>>>  I don't want to think about how much worse it would've been if I had
>>>> been riding a carbon bike.  I'm pretty bummed. The worst part is that the
>>>> other guy swore at me and threw my water bottle at me while I was lying on
>>>> the ground.  Called me some names I won't repeat here, and rode off before
>>>> I was even able to get up.   Sometimes I really hate riding around here.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, be safe out there and hug your Rivendells tonight!
>>>>
>>>> --
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>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Wrecked my Atlantis

[Lee Legrand]

Its New Jersey Alan.

Home of the worst drivers.

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 10:41 AM, alan lavine  wrote:

> John,
> Are you referring to "River Road" that runs through Palisades Interstate
> Park?  We ride there all the time, and the riders heading south reach very
> fast speeds, because they can.  I said to my wife just the other day that
> when riding in the city, the other cyclists have become more dangerous than
> the cars. Especially in Jersey.  Especially when crossing the GW bridge.
> Its just nuts.
>
> Glad you are OK, but it'll be rough getting out of bed tomorrow.  My best..
>
> Alan
> NYC
>
> On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 7:30:11 PM UTC-4, John G. wrote:
>>
>> Yesterday, at 5:30 in the morning, I collided head-on with another
>> cyclist. I was on a path along the Hudson river on the Jersey side, and the
>> guy had no lights.  And I went over the bars.
>>
>>  Thankfully, I'm all right, but my Atlantis is pretty messed up,  and I'd
>> like to get the lists advice . The fork is badly bent, and my local shop
>> thinks that the Head tube maybe messed up. They're stripping  it down and
>> sending it to Bilenky to see if it can be realigned. Do any of you think
>> that's a bad move?
>>
>>  I don't want to think about how much worse it would've been if I had
>> been riding a carbon bike.  I'm pretty bummed. The worst part is that the
>> other guy swore at me and threw my water bottle at me while I was lying on
>> the ground.  Called me some names I won't repeat here, and rode off before
>> I was even able to get up.   Sometimes I really hate riding around here.
>>
>> Anyway, be safe out there and hug your Rivendells tonight!
>>
>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Wrecked my Atlantis

[Lee Legrand]

To Patrick Moore,

It's Jersey.  Home of bad drivers and cyclist who ride on sidewalks and
against traffic on regular basis.  You have to be extra careful getting
around NJ since everyone tends to be Formula 1 race car drivers and the way
they drive, they translate that into the cycling habits as well.  One last
thing, if he did the violence as you suggested, he would have been in worst
shape. We tend to be more coarse in our language and attitude and if
violence erupts, it will erupt in a way that you did not intend it to since
his bicycle shop location tells me he lives near the major cities. Jersey
city and cities around that location are near the NYC were most of their
jobs are and people tend to live in those locations.  Those locations have
a dense population so people can be hostile and the NYC environment of fast
pace makes it worst.  Sometimes, you have to let things go, even when you
are right.

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 9:21 AM, Leslie  wrote:

> Glad you're alright, and sorry about the attitude of the other fellow...
>
> Bilenky is great: I had RBW send some dropouts to Bilenky so they could
> replace the bent hanger: did a *beautiful* job on the metalwork.
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/leslie_bright/24133962382/in/
> album-72157623199721925/
> (They would have powder-coated it for me, too, but I wanted to preserve as
> much of the original paint, so I had them not deal w/ the paint after they
> did the metalwork, then I painted the rear ends of the triangles.
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/leslie_bright/23946265090/in/
> album-72157623199721925/)
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 7:30:11 PM UTC-4, John G. wrote:
>>
>> Yesterday, at 5:30 in the morning, I collided head-on with another
>> cyclist. I was on a path along the Hudson river on the Jersey side, and the
>> guy had no lights.  And I went over the bars.
>>
>>  Thankfully, I'm all right, but my Atlantis is pretty messed up,  and I'd
>> like to get the lists advice . The fork is badly bent, and my local shop
>> thinks that the Head tube maybe messed up. They're stripping  it down and
>> sending it to Bilenky to see if it can be realigned. Do any of you think
>> that's a bad move?
>>
>>  I don't want to think about how much worse it would've been if I had
>> been riding a carbon bike.  I'm pretty bummed. The worst part is that the
>> other guy swore at me and threw my water bottle at me while I was lying on
>> the ground.  Called me some names I won't repeat here, and rode off before
>> I was even able to get up.   Sometimes I really hate riding around here.
>>
>> Anyway, be safe out there and hug your Rivendells tonight!
>>
>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Wrecked my Atlantis

[Lee Legrand]

Did not know they had a cycle shop in Jersey city. One of the most diverse
cities in New Jersey, also one of the most crowded cities since it is close
to New York City.

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 9:25 PM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Sorry to hear this, John. I'm glad you are okay. I see too many riders
> around my town riding without lights, or even light clothing. In fact, I
> was thinking the other night, coming home from a friend's house, I'm more
> likely to crash into another cyclist I didn't see that to get bonked by a
> car.
>
> On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 7:30:11 PM UTC-4, John G. wrote:
>
>> Yesterday, at 5:30 in the morning, I collided head-on with another
>> cyclist. I was on a path along the Hudson river on the Jersey side, and the
>> guy had no lights.  And I went over the bars.
>>
>>  Thankfully, I'm all right, but my Atlantis is pretty messed up,  and I'd
>> like to get the lists advice . The fork is badly bent, and my local shop
>> thinks that the Head tube maybe messed up. They're stripping  it down and
>> sending it to Bilenky to see if it can be realigned. Do any of you think
>> that's a bad move?
>>
>>  I don't want to think about how much worse it would've been if I had
>> been riding a carbon bike.  I'm pretty bummed. The worst part is that the
>> other guy swore at me and threw my water bottle at me while I was lying on
>> the ground.  Called me some names I won't repeat here, and rode off before
>> I was even able to get up.   Sometimes I really hate riding around here.
>>
>> Anyway, be safe out there and hug your Rivendells tonight!
>>
>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Wrecked my Atlantis

[Lee Legrand]

New Jersey Cycles in Linden or Elizabeth?

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 7:57 PM, John G. <jpgu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks, guys! Glad to hear Bilenky comes highly recommended. I checked out
> the Philly show last year, and it was awesome. I'm definitely pretty damn
> sore, but I'm honestly just relieved that I'm in one piece.
>
> Gotta give a shout out to my local shop, Jersey Cycles. They were a
> sympathetic shoulder to cry on, and immediately started working to get my
> Atlantis back in shape. I think they were almost as upset as I was.
>
>
>
> On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 7:50:18 PM UTC-4, Lee Legrand wrote:
>>
>> I will 3rd that recommendation.
>>
>> I do not know of any frame builders in NJ but the closest one I believe
>> is Stephen Bilenky so your frame is going to the right place. Glad you are
>> ok as well. There is also Winter Bicycle that recently moved from the west
>> coast here so that is two in the vicinity but Bilenky should do you well.
>> Make sure you stop by the bike show which I believe will be soon in
>> Pennsylvania started by Bilenky.
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 7:41 PM, jeffrey kane <jsk_o...@mac.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Damn John,
>>>
>>> Very sorry to hear that -- and glad to hear you're not hurt. I frequent
>>> paths along both sides the Hudson, often as early as 6:00 - 6:30am. No
>>> doubt it was pretty much pitch black at that hour yesterday.
>>> I'd guess if your shop thinks your frame warrants a trip to Belinky
>>> they're likely correct -- those guys know what they're doing and aren't
>>> unfamiliar with Rivs, either.
>>>
>>> Can't speak to the bottle throwing cyclist .. but I know what you mean.
>>>
>>> On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 7:30:11 PM UTC-4, John G. wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yesterday, at 5:30 in the morning, I collided head-on with another
>>>> cyclist. I was on a path along the Hudson river on the Jersey side, and the
>>>> guy had no lights.  And I went over the bars.
>>>>
>>>>  Thankfully, I'm all right, but my Atlantis is pretty messed up,  and
>>>> I'd like to get the lists advice . The fork is badly bent, and my local
>>>> shop thinks that the Head tube maybe messed up. They're stripping  it down
>>>> and sending it to Bilenky to see if it can be realigned. Do any of you
>>>> think that's a bad move?
>>>>
>>>>  I don't want to think about how much worse it would've been if I had
>>>> been riding a carbon bike.  I'm pretty bummed. The worst part is that the
>>>> other guy swore at me and threw my water bottle at me while I was lying on
>>>> the ground.  Called me some names I won't repeat here, and rode off before
>>>> I was even able to get up.   Sometimes I really hate riding around here.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, be safe out there and hug your Rivendells tonight!
>>>>
>>>> --
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>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Wrecked my Atlantis

[Lee Legrand]

I will 3rd that recommendation.

I do not know of any frame builders in NJ but the closest one I believe is
Stephen Bilenky so your frame is going to the right place. Glad you are ok
as well. There is also Winter Bicycle that recently moved from the west
coast here so that is two in the vicinity but Bilenky should do you well.
Make sure you stop by the bike show which I believe will be soon in
Pennsylvania started by Bilenky.

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 7:41 PM, jeffrey kane  wrote:

> Damn John,
>
> Very sorry to hear that -- and glad to hear you're not hurt. I frequent
> paths along both sides the Hudson, often as early as 6:00 - 6:30am. No
> doubt it was pretty much pitch black at that hour yesterday.
> I'd guess if your shop thinks your frame warrants a trip to Belinky
> they're likely correct -- those guys know what they're doing and aren't
> unfamiliar with Rivs, either.
>
> Can't speak to the bottle throwing cyclist .. but I know what you mean.
>
> On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 7:30:11 PM UTC-4, John G. wrote:
>>
>> Yesterday, at 5:30 in the morning, I collided head-on with another
>> cyclist. I was on a path along the Hudson river on the Jersey side, and the
>> guy had no lights.  And I went over the bars.
>>
>>  Thankfully, I'm all right, but my Atlantis is pretty messed up,  and I'd
>> like to get the lists advice . The fork is badly bent, and my local shop
>> thinks that the Head tube maybe messed up. They're stripping  it down and
>> sending it to Bilenky to see if it can be realigned. Do any of you think
>> that's a bad move?
>>
>>  I don't want to think about how much worse it would've been if I had
>> been riding a carbon bike.  I'm pretty bummed. The worst part is that the
>> other guy swore at me and threw my water bottle at me while I was lying on
>> the ground.  Called me some names I won't repeat here, and rode off before
>> I was even able to get up.   Sometimes I really hate riding around here.
>>
>> Anyway, be safe out there and hug your Rivendells tonight!
>>
>> --
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Re: [RBW] French Fender Day 2017 at JPW

[Lee Legrand]

If this was Wednesday, I would say take a bicycle trip.  Spend a day on the
road and hang out Saturday at Fender Day.  Stay in hotel and head home
Sunday.

On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 5:08 PM, Peter White <peterjwh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I suspect that using Amtrak would probably double my travel time. From
> Hillsborough to Old Lyme a car is the only viable option.
>
> PJW
>
> On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 3:28 PM, Lee Legrand <krm2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> You could take a train PW.  I live further than you but I would take a
>> train if I thought it was easy to get there from the train station by
>> bicycle.
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 2:35 PM, Steve Palincsar <palin...@his.com> wrote:
>>
>>> A lot closer for you than for many on this list!
>>>
>>> On 10/06/2017 02:19 PM, Peter White wrote:
>>>
>>> I'd love to go and bring my Rambouillet with its Gilles Berthoud carbon
>>> fiber fenders, but it's a 3 hour drive each way. Aarrrghh!
>>>
>>> PJW
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Steve Palincsar <palin...@his.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> But where are the fenders?:-)
>>>>
>>>> On 10/06/2017 01:36 PM, lconley wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Wish I could go. Not one of my Rivs but here is my NOS 1971 Gitane Tour
>>>> de France:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-zkZJ4ID9QBU/Wde-TPAc1hI/ADA/55_nop_WvHgY1yExcaxGkt2dnS128gE3gCLcBGAs/s1600/IMG_0595su.jpg>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
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>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Steve Palincsar
>>>> Alexandria, Virginia
>>>> USA
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>> USA
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>>
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Re: [RBW] French Fender Day 2017 at JPW

[Lee Legrand]

You could take a train PW.  I live further than you but I would take a
train if I thought it was easy to get there from the train station by
bicycle.

On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 2:35 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:

> A lot closer for you than for many on this list!
>
> On 10/06/2017 02:19 PM, Peter White wrote:
>
> I'd love to go and bring my Rambouillet with its Gilles Berthoud carbon
> fiber fenders, but it's a 3 hour drive each way. Aarrrghh!
>
> PJW
>
> On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:
>
>> But where are the fenders?:-)
>>
>> On 10/06/2017 01:36 PM, lconley wrote:
>>
>> Wish I could go. Not one of my Rivs but here is my NOS 1971 Gitane Tour
>> de France:
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> --
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>>
>> --
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>> Alexandria, Virginia
>> USA
>>
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Re: [RBW] French Fender Day 2017 at JPW

[Lee Legrand]

Thanks for the tip.

On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 12:49 PM, Eric Norris <campyonly...@me.com> wrote:

> Lash a baguette to the handlebars and you’ll be welcomed.
>
> --Eric Norris
> campyonly...@me.com
> @CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)
>
> On Oct 6, 2017, at 9:12 AM, Lee Legrand <krm2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Schwinn n'est pas français
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 12:09 PM, Eric Norris <campyonly...@me.com> wrote:
>
>> Aujourd'hui, tous les vélos sont des bicyclettes françaises.
>>
>> --Eric Norris
>> campyonly...@me.com
>> @CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)
>>
>> On Oct 6, 2017, at 9:06 AM, Lee Legrand <krm2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I am very close, less than 300 miles but I would be an outcast with a
>> bicycle I have.
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 11:52 AM, Eric Norris <campyonly...@me.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Looks like a great event, but about 2,928 miles too far away. I’ll ride
>>> a French bike tomorrow in solidarité.
>>>
>>> --Eric Norris
>>> campyonly...@me.com
>>> @CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)
>>>
>>> On Oct 6, 2017, at 6:40 AM, Steve Palincsar <palin...@his.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> At Peter Weigle's shop in Old Lyme CT
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/06/2017 09:27 AM, Lee Legrand wrote:
>>>
>>> Where is French Fender Day and can anyone come?  Is it the same day
>>> every year?
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 8:51 PM, Call Me Jay <callmehamt...@mac.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Who's in?  My Rivendells are staying at home but I'll be there with my
>>>> 650b Peugeot PX-50 (and maybe my son's 500a Gitane).
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Steve Palincsar
>>> Alexandria, Virginia
>>> USA
>>>
>>>
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Re: [RBW] French Fender Day 2017 at JPW

[Lee Legrand]

Schwinn n'est pas français


On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 12:09 PM, Eric Norris <campyonly...@me.com> wrote:

> Aujourd'hui, tous les vélos sont des bicyclettes françaises.
>
> --Eric Norris
> campyonly...@me.com
> @CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)
>
> On Oct 6, 2017, at 9:06 AM, Lee Legrand <krm2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am very close, less than 300 miles but I would be an outcast with a
> bicycle I have.
>
> On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 11:52 AM, Eric Norris <campyonly...@me.com> wrote:
>
>> Looks like a great event, but about 2,928 miles too far away. I’ll ride a
>> French bike tomorrow in solidarité.
>>
>> --Eric Norris
>> campyonly...@me.com
>> @CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)
>>
>> On Oct 6, 2017, at 6:40 AM, Steve Palincsar <palin...@his.com> wrote:
>>
>> At Peter Weigle's shop in Old Lyme CT
>>
>>
>> On 10/06/2017 09:27 AM, Lee Legrand wrote:
>>
>> Where is French Fender Day and can anyone come?  Is it the same day every
>> year?
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 8:51 PM, Call Me Jay <callmehamt...@mac.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Who's in?  My Rivendells are staying at home but I'll be there with my
>>> 650b Peugeot PX-50 (and maybe my son's 500a Gitane).
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Steve Palincsar
>> Alexandria, Virginia
>> USA
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] French Fender Day 2017 at JPW

[Lee Legrand]

I am very close, less than 300 miles but I would be an outcast with a
bicycle I have.

On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 11:52 AM, Eric Norris <campyonly...@me.com> wrote:

> Looks like a great event, but about 2,928 miles too far away. I’ll ride a
> French bike tomorrow in solidarité.
>
> --Eric Norris
> campyonly...@me.com
> @CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)
>
> On Oct 6, 2017, at 6:40 AM, Steve Palincsar <palin...@his.com> wrote:
>
> At Peter Weigle's shop in Old Lyme CT
>
>
> On 10/06/2017 09:27 AM, Lee Legrand wrote:
>
> Where is French Fender Day and can anyone come?  Is it the same day every
> year?
>
> On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 8:51 PM, Call Me Jay <callmehamt...@mac.com> wrote:
>
>> Who's in?  My Rivendells are staying at home but I'll be there with my
>> 650b Peugeot PX-50 (and maybe my son's 500a Gitane).
>>
>>
> --
> Steve Palincsar
> Alexandria, Virginia
> USA
>
>
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Re: [RBW] French Fender Day 2017 at JPW

[Lee Legrand]

Where is French Fender Day and can anyone come?  Is it the same day every
year?

On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 8:51 PM, Call Me Jay  wrote:

> Who's in?  My Rivendells are staying at home but I'll be there with my
> 650b Peugeot PX-50 (and maybe my son's 500a Gitane).
>
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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[Lee Legrand]

Lee Legrand very concisely asked: "Huh?" in response to my sarcastic
request for the best tires in the world to be cheap.  It was a sarcastic
comment.  Many many people have learned that better tires are better.  Many
people believe that Compass tires are the best in the world for their given
size.  Many of those people also complain that Compass tires are
expensive.  Some ask participants of the Rivendell Bicycle Works Owners
Bunch Google Group to explain and justify the pricing of Compass Bicycles
Ltd.  I think that state of affairs is amusing on many levels and my
sarcastic post was an attempt to add more amusement to the comedy.

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

Thanks for clarifying.  Now I know you did not smoke bad bag of bud
yesterday.

On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 9:25 AM, Philip Kim <philipw...@gmail.com> wrote:

> i've used compass babyshoes, switchback hills, and rat trap passes, all in
> standard and EL casing.
>
> now that i only have one bike which consolidates my miles, i prefer hetres
> as the best value.
>
> surprisingly enough, i have the parimoto with gravelking casing on my
> girlfriends BDB Pelican, and i think they are "close enough". ymmv
>
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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[Lee Legrand]

I don’t ask for much.  I just want somebody to ignore all costs to develop
and manufacture the best tires in the world and I want them to sell them to
me for really really cheap.  What’s so hard about that?!

Huh?

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 9:01 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> I don’t ask for much.  I just want somebody to ignore all costs to develop
> and manufacture the best tires in the world and I want them to sell them to
> me for really really cheap.  What’s so hard about that?!
>
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Re: [RBW] Diff between slick GravelKing and Compass Babyshoe Pass? Looks the same. Described the same.

[Lee Legrand]

I've also been in search of times that would match the Compass tires
without the same high cost. I was working on the assumption that a bigger
company with wider distribution channels could offer the same thing for
less. Doesn't appear to be the case. The closest alternative is the Soma
Supple Vitesse, which is close. The slight price differential matches the
ride differential. The Soma is also a VERY good tire.

I think you have to run a test and math.  Compass tires, if I remember
correctly, are made almost by hand which is why the cost is the way it is.
You get a tire that may feel the same in terms of ride as the high cost
tires but you also factor in wear between the two.  Hard to consider since
you have to get test for it but I understand why you would feel that way.

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 8:00 PM, panog  wrote:

> The Soma Vitesse are awfully close to my estimation and at $35 a pop look
> pretty good
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA... $1800 Atlantis Complete

[Lee Legrand]

Just remember, none of these cats who want you to buy the Atlantis would be
willing to trade your place of sleeping in that small shed.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 12:59 PM, Chris Birkenmaier 
wrote:

> I'm sure you could make that comfy with new curtains and rugs!  :)
>
> On Thursday, September 28, 2017 at 9:39:16 AM UTC-4, Surlyprof wrote:
>>
>> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/bik/d/rivendell-atlantis-fu
>> ll-build/6322422171.html
>>
>> I'm not affiliated but this looked like a great deal.  Half tempted to
>> buy it and sell the Hillborne.  No build details but looks to be in pretty
>> nice shape... and cheaper than a new frame.
>>
>> John
>>
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Re: [RBW] WTB: Clem 45cm or Appa 46cm (frame or complete)

[Lee Legrand]

It is the smallest largest size I would put her on, meaning, there are
smaller wheels sizes but they feel the road more than a 26" wheel and they
are standard.

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 2:28 PM, Ash [who works to bike] 
wrote:

> Want to try and get my wife into biking.  She's 5'2", so I'm thinking a
> bike with 26" wheels would be ideal.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA... $1800 Atlantis Complete

[Lee Legrand]

Ha, is going to be sleeping in a motel if he does that.

On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 1:28 PM, 'Beaverton Bob' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Buy that bike, then buy this one too, for the wife (and yourself)!
>
> https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/d/tandem-kuwahara-
> 21x20-japan/6325728736.html
>
> Ride Safely,
> Beaverton Bob
>
>
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Re: [RBW] PSA... $1800 Atlantis Complete

[Lee Legrand]

Guy logic does not work on wives.  You are just digging a bigger hole for
him.

Do not buy the bicycle man, it is fall and it is getting cold in the
evenings.

On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 11:59 AM, Matt Beecher  wrote:

> Do this and go bike-camping for a weekend.
>
> Matt B
> Oswego, IL
>
> On Friday, September 29, 2017 at 10:55:19 AM UTC-5, Mark Etze wrote:
>>
>> Buy it for $1800, sell the Sam for $1500, maybe only spend a night or two
>> in the garage.
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] PSA... $1800 Atlantis Complete

[Lee Legrand]

Probably is the Toyo frame builders to.  I know those are most sort after.

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Surlyprof  wrote:

> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/bik/d/rivendell-atlantis-
> full-build/6322422171.html
>
> I'm not affiliated but this looked like a great deal.  Half tempted to buy
> it and sell the Hillborne.  No build details but looks to be in pretty nice
> shape... and cheaper than a new frame.
>
> John
>
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Re: [RBW] 9 vs 10 speed bar end shifters

[Lee Legrand]

Go index.  I have a 2x9 and I can get to my gear by shift but to get there,
I have to push/pull lever slightly.  Going to 10 would be difficult on that
setup.  If you index it, you wont have to.  I believe that 9 is the limit
you want to go with friction shifting.

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 1:43 PM, Tim Gavin 
wrote:

> Shimano 10-speed bar-end shifters have more lever travel than 9-speed
> ones.  As in, the 10-speed pod (black) was cast to allow more travel before
> the (low-gear) stop.
>
> I found this out when I tried to mount BS-78s on 9-speed pods, and there
> wasn't enough travel for the 10th indexed gear.
>
> The point I'm trying to make:  Shimano 9-speed bar-ends may not offer
> enough travel for a 10 speed cassette.  Silver shifters have different
> enough geometry for this not to be an issue.
>
>
> Also, Shimano has made two generations of 10-speed bar-ends.  The current
> BS-78s are index-only.  But the previous BS-77s had a friction/index switch
> like legacy bar-ends.  There may be some available on the used market.
>
>
> I went with BS-78s (index) when I changed my Riv to a 10-speed cassette,
> and I don't miss the friction.
> I still use a Silver shifter on the left side; I vastly prefer how the
> Silver shifts an FD with a triple crank.
>
> On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 11:37 AM, Patrick Moore 
> wrote:
>
>> I find that shifting 10 requires more finesse than shifting 9; 9 felt
>> much like 8. I enjoy the challenge and beyond that the skill of shifting
>> precisely with friction, but it does take a while to learn to do it
>> smoothly and crisply.
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 24, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Gabriel Hargrove <
>> gabrielhargr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> All,
>>>
>>> I'm setting up a 2x10 drive train and was hoping to benefit from any
>>> experience out there using either Shimano 9 speed bar end shifters in
>>> friction mode or move into the Shimano 10 speed bar end shifters (STI
>>> only). Given the narrowness of the 10 speed chains, is it that finicky
>>> trying to find the right gear in a friction set up? Perhaps it is quieter
>>> in properly dialed in on the 10spd shifter. I don't plan on swapping out
>>> the levers for Silver shifters anytime soon, if that makes a difference for
>>> those in favor of the 9spd set up.
>>>
>>> Other details:
>>> 2007 26" Atlantis
>>> 10 speed rear cassette
>>> SunXcd double Crankset 46/26
>>> Shimano CX70 FD
>>> SunXcd RD
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] What's the least expensive 650b slick tire?

[Lee Legrand]

I very used tire on sale from someone. :)

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 8:17 PM, lum gim fong  wrote:

> No knobs.
> Minimal tread ok, I guess, like a herring bone.
>
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Re: [RBW] Question about stand over and head tube

[Lee Legrand]

Hi Joe,

It is definitely a 700c wheel but the bottom bracket may be low compared
since it looks somewhat like Steve P has on his.  The chain stay is not
level with BB and is actually slanted downward to meet the bottom bracket.

On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 4:21 PM, iamkeith  wrote:

> If i understand your question correctly:
>
> 1) bottom bracket height matters a lot.  For a given (& workable)
> standover height, the saddle can come down closer to the top tube with a
> corresponding drop in bottom bracket height, which then brings saddle and
> handlebar heights closer to equal - before even looking for other tricks
> like extended head tubes or tall stems.
>
> 2) the riders of most of the bikes you're looking at probably dont sweat
> the standover clearance (they're not "crotch-worriers" as riv terms it).
> It is likely much more minimal than you're used to.
>
> 3)  most bikes fit better for people of average proportions, or  those
> with long limbs (inseam) and short torso. Someone with shorter legs, of an
> otherwise identical height on an otherwise identically sized bike, might
> actually prefer the top tube to slope down from the headtube connection,
> and have more seatpost.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Silver Tubing Info

[Lee Legrand]

Hi John,

I understand.

Thanks,

On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 9:19 PM, John Hawrylak <john.hawry...@verizon.net>
wrote:

> Lee
>
> I agree on your compression remarks
>
> On UTS and Ys, I was only pointing out heat treatment affects both the UTS
> and the Ys.  So when vendors show increased UTS due to either heat
> treatment or a slight change in alloying, or both, the UTS and Ys increase.
>
> I think the real question is how strong do you need it to be.  Grant
> touched on this point in a recent blug.  For example, using 853 vs 753 for
> a lugged frame with 0.7/0.4/0.7 mm wall thicknesses, may not  do anything
> more than increase your margin for safety.  It may also be cheap to do, so
> why not use the stronger (perceived as better) 853.
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
>
> On Tuesday, September 19, 2017 at 6:50:31 PM UTC-4, Lee Legrand wrote:
>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> Yield strength and UTS is typically fixed in material. If I am
>> understanding what you have written so far, RBW from a liability standpoint
>> would design bicycle frames to not exceed 107 ksi. Any stress past this
>> point would result in a deformed frame although capacity is still there.
>> Also consider that there are two failing mechanism within a bicycle frame
>> which are tensile and compression. Compression failure due to buckling
>> would be the most critical of the two and would set the criteria of
>> acceptable stress to be in the frame to be much lower than 107 ksi when
>> loaded by a rider.
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 6:29 PM, John Hawrylak <john.h...@verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Lee
>>>
>>> I agree, the yield stress reflects the max for design, you want to keep
>>> the stress in the elastic region.   Typically Yield increases
>>> proportionally as UTS increases, e.g., a Columbus Niobium tube has a UTS =
>>> 152 to 167 ksi with a Yield = 107 ksi.  The Columbus has a 55% higher yield
>>> and 53% higher UTS than the RBW Silver tube.  Also the Niobium is slightly
>>> more ductile, >14% elongation vs >10%.
>>>
>>> So RBW tubing is not the highest strength, but seems adequate for a
>>> lugged frame.  It is difficult to see the RBW claim of being less brittle
>>> than heat treated steels
>>>
>>> John Hawrylak
>>> Woodstown NJ
>>>
>>> On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 6:50:37 PM UTC-4, Lee Legrand wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi John,
>>>>
>>>> I assume the UTS is ultimate tension strength or stress. I would think
>>>> the bicycle builder or framer would want it to be less than 70ksi (yield
>>>> strength limit).  Once stress exceed the yield strength, it will basically
>>>> begin to fail due to buckling or plastic hinge effects happen on the
>>>> frame.  Deformation in the steel is plastic instead of elastic once it
>>>> exceeds yield.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 6:23 PM, John Hawrylak <john.h...@verizon.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yes, RBW claims it is heat treated, but the UTS is very close to True
>>>>> Temper Versus (110,000 psi) so the heat treatment is probably for stress
>>>>> relief instead of increasing the UTS
>>>>>
>>>>> John Hawrylak
>>>>> Woodstown NJ
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 10:36:16 PM UTC-4, Benz, Sunnyvale,
>>>>> CA wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 1:01:21 PM UTC-7, John Hawrylak
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Does anyone have a link to the RBW Silver Tubing sticker which gives
>>>>>>> the mechanical properties of the tubing.  I seem to recall 110 ksi UTS. 
>>>>>>>  I
>>>>>>> looked on the RBW site and searched but came up empty.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's here
>>>>>> <https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1403/7343/files/APPA_SILVER_DECAL_large.jpg?v=1489610838>,
>>>>>> in the announcement
>>>>>> <https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/peeking-through-the-knothole/le-sliver-carnk>
>>>>>> for Le S!lver crank.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Basically, it says:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>- S!lver butted Cr-Mo steel tubes, forks, stays
>>>>>>- Fe 97.3%
>>>>>&

Re: [RBW] Re: Silver Tubing Info

[Lee Legrand]

Hi John,

Yield strength and UTS is typically fixed in material. If I am
understanding what you have written so far, RBW from a liability standpoint
would design bicycle frames to not exceed 107 ksi. Any stress past this
point would result in a deformed frame although capacity is still there.
Also consider that there are two failing mechanism within a bicycle frame
which are tensile and compression. Compression failure due to buckling
would be the most critical of the two and would set the criteria of
acceptable stress to be in the frame to be much lower than 107 ksi when
loaded by a rider.

On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 6:29 PM, John Hawrylak <john.hawry...@verizon.net>
wrote:

> Lee
>
> I agree, the yield stress reflects the max for design, you want to keep
> the stress in the elastic region.   Typically Yield increases
> proportionally as UTS increases, e.g., a Columbus Niobium tube has a UTS =
> 152 to 167 ksi with a Yield = 107 ksi.  The Columbus has a 55% higher yield
> and 53% higher UTS than the RBW Silver tube.  Also the Niobium is slightly
> more ductile, >14% elongation vs >10%.
>
> So RBW tubing is not the highest strength, but seems adequate for a lugged
> frame.  It is difficult to see the RBW claim of being less brittle than
> heat treated steels
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
> On Monday, September 18, 2017 at 6:50:37 PM UTC-4, Lee Legrand wrote:
>
>> Hi John,
>>
>> I assume the UTS is ultimate tension strength or stress. I would think
>> the bicycle builder or framer would want it to be less than 70ksi (yield
>> strength limit).  Once stress exceed the yield strength, it will basically
>> begin to fail due to buckling or plastic hinge effects happen on the
>> frame.  Deformation in the steel is plastic instead of elastic once it
>> exceeds yield.
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 6:23 PM, John Hawrylak <john.h...@verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, RBW claims it is heat treated, but the UTS is very close to True
>>> Temper Versus (110,000 psi) so the heat treatment is probably for stress
>>> relief instead of increasing the UTS
>>>
>>> John Hawrylak
>>> Woodstown NJ
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 10:36:16 PM UTC-4, Benz, Sunnyvale, CA
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 1:01:21 PM UTC-7, John Hawrylak wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone have a link to the RBW Silver Tubing sticker which gives
>>>>> the mechanical properties of the tubing.  I seem to recall 110 ksi UTS.  I
>>>>> looked on the RBW site and searched but came up empty.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's here
>>>> <https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1403/7343/files/APPA_SILVER_DECAL_large.jpg?v=1489610838>,
>>>> in the announcement
>>>> <https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/peeking-through-the-knothole/le-sliver-carnk>
>>>> for Le S!lver crank.
>>>>
>>>> Basically, it says:
>>>>
>>>>- S!lver butted Cr-Mo steel tubes, forks, stays
>>>>- Fe 97.3%
>>>>- Cr 1%
>>>>- Mo 0.2%
>>>>- C+Mn+Si+S 1.5%
>>>>- UTS ~103,000 psi
>>>>- Elongation ~10%
>>>>- Yield ~70,000 psi
>>>>
>>>> Kind of in the same ballpark as the evergreen Reynolds 531.
>>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Silver Tubing Info

[Lee Legrand]

Hi John,

I assume the UTS is ultimate tension strength or stress. I would think the
bicycle builder or framer would want it to be less than 70ksi (yield
strength limit).  Once stress exceed the yield strength, it will basically
begin to fail due to buckling or plastic hinge effects happen on the
frame.  Deformation in the steel is plastic instead of elastic once it
exceeds yield.

On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 6:23 PM, John Hawrylak 
wrote:

> Yes, RBW claims it is heat treated, but the UTS is very close to True
> Temper Versus (110,000 psi) so the heat treatment is probably for stress
> relief instead of increasing the UTS
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
>
> On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 10:36:16 PM UTC-4, Benz, Sunnyvale, CA
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 1:01:21 PM UTC-7, John Hawrylak wrote:
>>>
>>> Does anyone have a link to the RBW Silver Tubing sticker which gives the
>>> mechanical properties of the tubing.  I seem to recall 110 ksi UTS.  I
>>> looked on the RBW site and searched but came up empty.
>>>
>>
>> It's here
>> ,
>> in the announcement
>> 
>> for Le S!lver crank.
>>
>> Basically, it says:
>>
>>- S!lver butted Cr-Mo steel tubes, forks, stays
>>- Fe 97.3%
>>- Cr 1%
>>- Mo 0.2%
>>- C+Mn+Si+S 1.5%
>>- UTS ~103,000 psi
>>- Elongation ~10%
>>- Yield ~70,000 psi
>>
>> Kind of in the same ballpark as the evergreen Reynolds 531.
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Silver Tubing Info

[Lee Legrand]

Had no idea steel tubing had a yield strength of 70ksi. Stronger than
typical rebar used in concrete buildings.

On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 10:38 AM, Bob Ehrenbeck  wrote:

> Here's a photo of the actual tubing sticker that's on my Clem:
>
> https://flic.kr/p/AKBQJU
>
> Bob E
> Cranford, NJ
>
>
>
> On Sunday, September 17, 2017 at 4:01:21 PM UTC-4, John Hawrylak wrote:
>
>> Does anyone have a link to the RBW Silver Tubing sticker which gives the
>> mechanical properties of the tubing.  I seem to recall 110 ksi UTS.  I
>> looked on the RBW site and searched but came up empty.
>>
>> John Hawrylak
>> Woodstown NJ
>>
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Re: [RBW] Thoughts on Devold boxer briefs?

[Lee Legrand]

Hi Mark,

I agree with much you have said about wearing wool.  There is the
additional care that must be taken if you are in a area were insects like
to eat them as well.  You may find a clothing drawing with insects eating
at your wool undies.  I have tried wool undies before and never had a
problem with them except I think mine had a polyester or nylon blend to
them which help to keep shape and hold wear longer.

On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 8:19 AM, William R.  wrote:

> The Devolder wool boxer briefs that Riv sells are my favorites to wear
> under Musa shorts, pants, knickers, Compass knickers and some "big s"
> casual shorts that I got this spring. The boxers just disappear for me
> under those yet they provide the non-chafing support that I need. They wick
> away moisture like no others, hang dry quickly after use and stay clean for
> a week of use between washing alternating two pairs.
>
> Two pairs alternated daily last me a year before they wear thin and holes
> develop in areas. So I generally buy two new pairs from Riv every spring.
>
> This spring when I went to the Riv site to replace them they were out of
> my size. I waited for restock, but time was going by and I needed them.
> Looking for the exact style that Riv carries elsewhere was frustrating.
>
> So I ended up getting the two pairs of wool boxer briefs that I have been
> using this year from an unlikely source for me. I will just call them "big
> (overpriced) r". These wool briefs were priced more in line with my price
> point than their other offerings. And they have served me well. Comparable
> to the Devolders. Not made in Norway, but Vietnam, and they may be longer
> lasting. Only half way through my year of use, so only time will tell on
> that last point. So far so good though.
>
> Bill in Westchester, NY
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Brooks "customer service"

[Lee Legrand]

How long did you have the saddle and do you still have the receipt?  If it
is within the two years, you may be able to convince them to repair the
saddle since it would be within warranty.

On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 11:20 AM, Ron Mc  wrote:

> I don't own saddle I have registered on the Brooks website anymore, and
> their website won't let me register any of 4 I'm currently using.
>
> On Wednesday, September 13, 2017 at 6:35:57 AM UTC-5, Jay in Tel Aviv
> wrote:
>>
>> Unhelpful response to my request for a rivet to replace one that fell off
>> of my Cambium. They do sell it on their website but won't ship to me for
>> some reason.
>>
>>
>> *Brooks England* (BROOKS ENGLAND)
>>
>> Sep 13, 12:04 BST
>> Hi Jay,
>>
>> The warranty on our saddles only extends to ten year if you registered it
>> on our Brooks England website within the first month of purchasing. If that
>> isn't the case, I am afraid that you will have to pay for any repairs after
>> the standard two years warranty.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Brooks England
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Paul Racer front brakes with fenders

[Lee Legrand]

I do not know about you guys but the pictures do not even show up in my
email, except the nut and bolt.

On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 1:05 PM, A CT Cyclist  wrote:

>
> The first photo shows the back of the brake with the recessed *bolt *that
> threads directly into it, no nuts involved. The second photo shows a
> recessed area that the head of a bolt could sit in. The head must sit
> absolutely flush because any protrusion would interfere with the brakes
> operation. If you look at the first picture you can see that there is no
> room for a nut that isn't absolutely flush. You will also note that the
> bolt is threaded about half way then the bolt becomes a bit wider so you
> cannot thread it any further into the brake as demonstrated in the 3rd
> picture. Even if you could thread the bolt all the way through you can see
> in the 4th photo that the nut sits proud and would interfere with the
> brakes operation.
> Finally, I demonstrate the way the fender nut is supposed to work with the
> brake bolt coming from the front of the fork, allowing a M6 bolt to be
> threaded into it for fender mounting.
>
>
>
> On Friday, September 8, 2017 at 6:46:07 AM UTC-4, EasyRider wrote:
>>
>> Your photos did not load properly, please repost them.
>>
>> On Thursday, September 7, 2017 at 10:45:33 PM UTC-4, A CT Cyclist wrote:
>>>
>>> I have used Duramas in the past but the clearances are tight hence the
>>> desire to try the Sheldon Fender nut.
>>>
>>> Since a picture is worth a thousand words .
>>>
>>> This is the back of the brake with the recessed *bolt *that threads
>>> directly into it, no nuts involved.
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> This photo shows a recessed area that the head of a bolt could sit in.
>>> The head must sit absolutely flush because any protrusion would interfere
>>> with the brakes operation. If you look at the first picture you can see
>>> that there is no room for a nut that isn't absolutely flush. You will also
>>> note that the bolt is threaded about half way then the bolt becomes a bit
>>> wider so you cannot thread it any further into the brake as demonstrated in
>>> the picture below.
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> Even if you could thread the bolt all the way through you can see in the
>>> photo below that the nut sits proud and would interfere with the brakes
>>> operation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Finally, I demonstrate the way the fender nut is supposed to work with
>>> the brake bolt coming from the front of the fork, allowing a M6 bolt to be
>>> threaded into it for fender mounting.
>>>
>>>
>>> The only solution I can see is to use something like the extra long bolt
>>> kit for converting the Racer brake to a non-recessed brake.  At
>>> $14 plus shipping from CA to CT I think it would be cheaper to go the
>>> local hardware store.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, September 7, 2017 at 9:40:35 PM UTC-4, Nash Taylor wrote:

 As others have said, it works.  These brakes are exactly like any other
 brake as far as mounting to the frame or fork.
>>>
>>>
> 

Re: [RBW] Re: Show me your touring/camping setup!

[Lee Legrand]

A Deacon that never exercise self restraint! LOL

On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 8:35 PM, Deacon Patrick <lamontg...@mac.com> wrote:

> I've never exercised self restraint, though I hope to do so one day, but I
> have done loads of research on it... Grin.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Tuesday, August 22, 2017 at 7:50:40 PM UTC-6, Lee Legrand wrote:
>>
>> I have never done a touring/camping on a bicycle and hope to do it one
>> day but I have done tons of research on it.
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Show me your touring/camping setup!

[Lee Legrand]

I have never done a touring/camping on a bicycle and hope to do it one day
but I have done tons of research on it.

1.  Develop a minimalist attitude and pack light.  Try to bring things that
you need and instead of things you would like to have.  Easy to overpack
things.  My research has told me to get the things you would like to have
and then begin to pair down from there.

2.  Many people have different setups for carrying there things but the
most logical is to carry heavy stuff up front and lighter stuff in the
rear.  The french bicycle company Berthoud, recommends a set up where it is
60 front/ 40 rear.  Better weight distribution since majority of your body
weight is on the rear wheel.  Met a bicycle tourist from France recently
who came thru my town and he told me broke the rear triangle on his trek
across the USA but he did have most of his loads in the rear.  He manage to
get it welded together to continue his journey.  Better to have it most
loads up front.

3.  Keep the loads low for stability of the bicycle.  Another of Berthoud
advise.  Yes they sell panniers and that may be part of their of it but it
makes since to keep the center of gravity low.

4. Everyone has a favorite in how they carry there stuff but I do think
panniers are better than trailers.  It is one less thing to break down and
manuever.  I think trailer are good if you need to bring stuff on a large
journey around the world and extra capacity is needed.

5. Make sure you can bring enough water on your journey.  Never know when
you will be on long stretches with no access to water for awhile.  At least
bring 3 water bottles.

6. I think for light touring, two large panniers up front with a handlebar
bag and possible a small rear saddlebag is all that is needed.  The
saddlebag needs not be large and if it is, consider what you are bringing
again. Do I really need it?  Is it heavy?

7.  Steve told me this once but he mentioned that you should know the
terrain so you have the gear required to ride it.  Changes in elevation
with stuff on the bicycle with not low enough gear to ride will be a
problem.

Thats all I got.

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 7:45 PM, Kellie  wrote:

> Also a great resource  is *bikepacking.com *.
> Most of the photos here are packed too unwieldy for me. I prefer a more
> compartmentalized and streamlined look. You'll see lots of variety on this
> website, even basket bikepacking.
>
> On Monday, August 21, 2017 at 12:57:57 PM UTC-7, John G. wrote:
>
>> It looks like I'll be taking my Atlantis on a quick 2-night tour in the
>> next few days. I'll be camping instead of staying in hotels. I haven't bike
>> camped before, so I need ideas on how to load up the bike. If you have pics
>> of your Rivendell loaded up for a quick tour, post 'em here!
>>
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Re: [RBW] 21 speed rear?

[Lee Legrand]

It would need a special chain for that, thin and will break easily when
shifting in addition to the shifters.  What kind of shifters would work
except friction and be able to dial it in perfectly.

On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 7:32 PM, Wayne Naha  wrote:

> Supposedly, this is a spy shot of a SRAM 21 speed cassette.  I thought it
> good for a laugh, I mean, it can't be serious.  Kinda reminds of those
> razors with five blades.
>
>
>
> 
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Custom bike

[Lee Legrand]

Hi Toshi,

What do you mean by stable? Do you mean the rear does not wag when you
climb out of the seat? (That what happens on my old bike)

On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 2:17 PM, Ryan Fleming 
wrote:

> Wownice...can't wait to see it all built up
>
>
> On Friday, August 18, 2017 at 12:33:52 PM UTC-5, ttoshi wrote:
>>
>> Hi all, I've gotten several questions about the custom up on Instagram,
>> so I thought I would tell you about the bike.
>>
>> I plan to use the 650b bike for randonneuring.  It has the dropout that
>> allows a wireless connection to a Schmidt dynamo.  I'm planning to ride
>> with 42mm Hetre/BSP tires.  The 42s likely wouldn't clear the Paul Racers
>> without deflation, so I opted to get the Compass Centerpulls.  There is
>> internal wire routing as well as some thoughtful braze-ons for wiring of
>> the taillight in the rear.
>>
>> While Grant was designing the bike, he had me ride the Blue Rosco Road.
>> The long chainstays gave the Rosco Road a fantastic stability in the ride,
>> but the bike felt really nimble when I shifted my weight.  I know that I am
>> going to love the ride with the long chainstays.
>>
>> Can't wait till it's built up!
>>
>> Toshi
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Roast your own coffee?

[Lee Legrand]

My apologies Deacon Patrick.  For some reason, I saw Peterson after Deacon
on the screen. LOL

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 7:18 PM, Deacon Patrick <lamontg...@mac.com> wrote:

> Lee, you're conflating two people and certainly insulting Tim in the
> process. Grin.
>
> Yes. You can use a saucepan and wood spoon to constantly stir a pound of
> beans on medium heat that will yield 14ish ounces. 1-3 days before that
> runs out, roast some more. You'll spend about 20 minutes per roast, set up,
> roasting, and clean up all said once you get familiar (which will take you
> one time. Seriously. It's easy.). If you like it and want a machine
> dedicated to roasting, go for a roaster after you've experienced it the
> saucepan way.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Tuesday, August 15, 2017 at 4:22:32 PM UTC-6, Lee Legrand wrote:
>>
>> So Deacon Peterson,
>>
>> If a person wanted good coffee every morning without spending so much
>> time because they have to get to work, it is better to roast the beans for
>> a 3 day supply then on day of use,measure, grind, brew, press, sip?
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 13, 2017 at 7:09 PM, 'tim petersen' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I follow the same process as you except I stick with 1 pound batches for
>>> roasting.  Great minds think alike I guess.  I don't have a problem with
>>> cold weather roasting (even though I live in SE Minnesota) with the Behmor
>>> 1600 since I store the machine in the house between roasts and my garage
>>> will get down to a minimum of 20 plus degrees in the dead of winter.
>>> Do you have a sense of why you had a fire?
>>> Tim
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, August 13, 2017, 2:09:27 PM CDT, ADH <ahur...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I've been roasting for over 20 years. Started with a Freshroast and have
>>> had a Behmor for probably 10 years. All my beans have always come from
>>> Sweet Maria's. One great reason to buy from them is that Tom (the owner)
>>> travels around the world to source beans and he pays way more than Fair
>>> Trade prices to the farmers. He pays directly to most growers and has
>>> long-term relationships around the world.
>>>
>>> I agree with most every comment so far. Roasting is WAY cheaper than
>>> buying good roasted beans. Most Maria's beans are about $6+ a lb (order in
>>> bulk and shipping only adds another $0.50 a lb). Note that beans lose some
>>> of their weight during the roasting process, so your 16 oz. roast may net
>>> at 14 oz.
>>>
>>> I never tried the popper/heat gun/economical methods. Here's how I would
>>> make the decision. Buying a Behmor breaks even at roughly 50 lbs of coffee
>>> (figuring $6/lb between roasting and retail. Maria's sells it for $369
>>> which includes 8 lbs of beans). So, if you use a pound a week, it'd be a
>>> year or so. BUT... if it's not something you decide to do long-term, you
>>> can easily sell a used Behmor on eBay for probably 75% of what you paid for
>>> it. So that's the math.
>>>
>>> As for the "experience"... it's not exactly set and forget. I used to
>>> roast small batches frequently because... the coffee police say beans need
>>> to be... perfect and perfectly fresh. Some years ago I decided that it just
>>> didn't matter that much. Most times when I drink coffee, I just drink
>>> coffee and don't think about whether it has hints of dried fruit, molasses,
>>> and dense chocolate, or it's floral with citrus overtones. My ritual now is
>>> to roast 3 lbs of beans consecutively in one pound batches (that I throw in
>>> the freezer). I do not wait an hour for the Behmor to cool down. I don't
>>> pre-heat. I don't check voltage and I don't vary from the automatic
>>> program. I hit the 1 lb button and start. When I hear the first crack I
>>> press the C button. This batching method takes about an hour (20 mins a
>>> roast). I do it outside. The Behmor has two quirks, both of which are
>>> irritating. One, as mentioned, is that it won't work in low temps. I live
>>> near Boston, so that is a pain. Second, there is an insanity inducing
>>> requirement to press the Start button when the roast is 75% done, otherwise
>>> the machine shuts down. The purpose is so you don't walk away from the
>>> machine during a roast because it can catch on fire (which I can attest
>>> to). But there is no audible alarm, so it's a pain. Another "chore" is
>>> cleani

Re: [RBW] Re: Roast your own coffee?

[Lee Legrand]

So Deacon Peterson,

If a person wanted good coffee every morning without spending so much time
because they have to get to work, it is better to roast the beans for a 3
day supply then on day of use,measure, grind, brew, press, sip?

On Sun, Aug 13, 2017 at 7:09 PM, 'tim petersen' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> I follow the same process as you except I stick with 1 pound batches for
> roasting.  Great minds think alike I guess.  I don't have a problem with
> cold weather roasting (even though I live in SE Minnesota) with the Behmor
> 1600 since I store the machine in the house between roasts and my garage
> will get down to a minimum of 20 plus degrees in the dead of winter.
> Do you have a sense of why you had a fire?
> Tim
>
>
> On Sunday, August 13, 2017, 2:09:27 PM CDT, ADH 
> wrote:
>
>
> I've been roasting for over 20 years. Started with a Freshroast and have
> had a Behmor for probably 10 years. All my beans have always come from
> Sweet Maria's. One great reason to buy from them is that Tom (the owner)
> travels around the world to source beans and he pays way more than Fair
> Trade prices to the farmers. He pays directly to most growers and has
> long-term relationships around the world.
>
> I agree with most every comment so far. Roasting is WAY cheaper than
> buying good roasted beans. Most Maria's beans are about $6+ a lb (order in
> bulk and shipping only adds another $0.50 a lb). Note that beans lose some
> of their weight during the roasting process, so your 16 oz. roast may net
> at 14 oz.
>
> I never tried the popper/heat gun/economical methods. Here's how I would
> make the decision. Buying a Behmor breaks even at roughly 50 lbs of coffee
> (figuring $6/lb between roasting and retail. Maria's sells it for $369
> which includes 8 lbs of beans). So, if you use a pound a week, it'd be a
> year or so. BUT... if it's not something you decide to do long-term, you
> can easily sell a used Behmor on eBay for probably 75% of what you paid for
> it. So that's the math.
>
> As for the "experience"... it's not exactly set and forget. I used to
> roast small batches frequently because... the coffee police say beans need
> to be... perfect and perfectly fresh. Some years ago I decided that it just
> didn't matter that much. Most times when I drink coffee, I just drink
> coffee and don't think about whether it has hints of dried fruit, molasses,
> and dense chocolate, or it's floral with citrus overtones. My ritual now is
> to roast 3 lbs of beans consecutively in one pound batches (that I throw in
> the freezer). I do not wait an hour for the Behmor to cool down. I don't
> pre-heat. I don't check voltage and I don't vary from the automatic
> program. I hit the 1 lb button and start. When I hear the first crack I
> press the C button. This batching method takes about an hour (20 mins a
> roast). I do it outside. The Behmor has two quirks, both of which are
> irritating. One, as mentioned, is that it won't work in low temps. I live
> near Boston, so that is a pain. Second, there is an insanity inducing
> requirement to press the Start button when the roast is 75% done, otherwise
> the machine shuts down. The purpose is so you don't walk away from the
> machine during a roast because it can catch on fire (which I can attest
> to). But there is no audible alarm, so it's a pain. Another "chore" is
> cleaning it. I use a Dustbuster to clean out the chaff between roasts. And
> every 5 lbs you need to Simple Green the inside. Have I convinced you it's
> too hard? Hope not. I've been doing it for 20 years and I am not a coffee
> snob. I do it because...
>
> I love good coffee that is not overroasted (which means no Starbucks,
> etc.). The coffee I like costs $12-15/lb. retail, which kills me. I also
> enjoy the process of roasting beans. I read or listen to music for the hour
> or so it takes. I don't mind cleaning the machine. I also love my own
> coffee enough that I rarely buy a cup retail (I used to buy a to-go cup or
> two of coffee at least once a weekday... that was probably $1000/year).
> After 20 years, I have probably saved at least $5000 on the roast side and
> $15-20,000 not buying to-go coffee. That's not an exaggeration. The money I
> didn't spend was invested in the stock market. Someone else can do the
> math, but I figure roasting my own coffee for 20 years just paid for my new
> car and then some.
>
> Finally (I know, you thought this would never end)... I live near George
> Howell who is a coffee legend. I met him at his company and among other
> things told him I liked my beans best after resting 5-6 days, not 2-3. He
> agreed. But it doesn't matter what I like. Roasting will consistently give
> you $12 results for half the price. But only if you enjoy the process.
>
> On Sunday, July 30, 2017 at 7:28:13 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> I’ve toyed with the idea of roasting my own coffee. Then Kellie goes and
> mentions Sweet 

Re: [RBW] Re: Roast your own coffee?

[Lee Legrand]

How much time does it take for you to roast those green coffee beans?

On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Jay Connolly  wrote:

> I've never roasted coffee, but you folks sure have me interested.
>
> Jay
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Cable/Housing Cutter Suggestions

[Lee Legrand]

Hi Joe,

I recommend getting separate cutters for both housing and cables. Get a
rotary tool for cutting the housing and a good cable cutter for cables.
Using a typical cable cutter closes the metal casing of the housing and
does not leave a square edge.  In addition, you will need a awl to reopen
the housing hole to allow cables to run thru and metal file to get a square
edge. Get a good quality cable cutter that last to cut the cables and you
should be good.

On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 9:55 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:

> I've heard this phrase, "side cutter", for years. What does it look like?
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Roast your own coffee?

[Lee Legrand]

Way too much time Deacon.  I need my coffee in the morning to get me
going.  Cant spend 30 minutes roasting, then 5 minutes grinding, 5 minutes
boiling water, 4 minutes brewing in french press and then to drink.  Way
too much time.

On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 9:14 PM, Jonathan D.  wrote:

> I have several friends bag roast. You can get a fine product from the air
> pop. However to really get a great roast you have to control for a lot of
> variables including the temperature of the room. It can be fun but to match
> a good roast from a local roaster takes a lot of work.
>
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Re: [RBW] Movie "Brevet" on Vimeo

[Lee Legrand]

Thats crazy.  I also think that randonneuring is a form of extreme activity
in which people can take a cool thing as riding a bicycle for long distance
and going way too far.

On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 7:20 PM, Orc <grr.grr@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Tuesday, July 25, 2017 at 3:40:17 PM UTC-7, Lee Legrand wrote:
>>
>> Dude was riding the hardest gear for the last 100km because his cables
>> failed, a 50 and a 12.  He said it was very hard but very nice.
>>
>
>  Was he riding through?   If so, I could see how pushing a 5:1 would
> sort of mix together with the other hallucinations at that point.
>
>
>  -david parsons
>
>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 6:23 PM, Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> "TC" (what is your name?): When I ordered my second custom (stripped
>>> gofast fixie) from Riv, 18 years ago, I shyly told Grant, "For me, 30 miles
>>> is a long ride." He replied, "It *is* a long ride!" So I felt validated.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the link.
>>>
>>> Patrick Moore, who rides fixed on the road, which multiplies his
>>> effective mileage by 5, in ABQ, NM
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 4:14 PM, tc <tdc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Some likely already know of the movie "Brevet
>>>> <https://vimeo.com/ondemand/brevet>" on Vimeo, about randonneuring,
>>>> specifically the Paris - Brest - Paris (PBP) cycling marathon done every 4
>>>> years.  Heck, some of you have probably done it.  English or French
>>>> subtitle versions available.  My longest rides are 30 miles or less ...
>>>> which is laughable in comparison to 1230KM journey depicted in this movie.
>>>> Maybe one day I'll enter a populaire and see how far that will take me.
>>>> Anyway, if you haven't watched it, it's a great movie that focuses on 3 of
>>>> the 5K or so people that entered a recent PBP, one of which was 68!
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Movie "Brevet" on Vimeo

[Lee Legrand]

Dude was riding the hardest gear for the last 100km because his cables
failed, a 50 and a 12.  He said it was very hard but very nice.



On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 6:23 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> "TC" (what is your name?): When I ordered my second custom (stripped
> gofast fixie) from Riv, 18 years ago, I shyly told Grant, "For me, 30 miles
> is a long ride." He replied, "It *is* a long ride!" So I felt validated.
>
> Thanks for the link.
>
> Patrick Moore, who rides fixed on the road, which multiplies his effective
> mileage by 5, in ABQ, NM
>
> On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 4:14 PM, tc  wrote:
>
>> Some likely already know of the movie "Brevet
>> " on Vimeo, about randonneuring,
>> specifically the Paris - Brest - Paris (PBP) cycling marathon done every 4
>> years.  Heck, some of you have probably done it.  English or French
>> subtitle versions available.  My longest rides are 30 miles or less ...
>> which is laughable in comparison to 1230KM journey depicted in this movie.
>> Maybe one day I'll enter a populaire and see how far that will take me.
>> Anyway, if you haven't watched it, it's a great movie that focuses on 3 of
>> the 5K or so people that entered a recent PBP, one of which was 68!
>>
>> --
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>
>
>
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> **
> **
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>
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Re: [RBW] Re: How hot is too hot?

[Lee Legrand]

I think everyone should take precautions when they cycle in hot humid
weather.  Just because you are fit does not mean your immune from the
effects of hot humid weather.  Either get outside early in the morning to
ride or late evening rides and prepare for the weather at that time.  Do
not leave anything to chance.

On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 11:17 AM, RichS  wrote:

> I'm also in the hot, humid south and I couldn't agree with you more on the
> MUSA attire matched with a Brooks saddle. The shorts provide good
> ventilation around the legs.
>
> Regards,
> Richard
>
>
> On Tuesday, July 18, 2017 at 5:32:14 PM UTC-4, Ron Mc wrote:
>>
>> S. Texas here - if you don't like to ride in the hot, you don't ride.
>> I put Smart Water in my water bottle, take a banana for rest stop.
>> I ride in the morning, and ride the shady greenways to spend as little
>> time in the sun as possible.
>>   
>> As long as you're moving, you feel cool enough.  It's when you stop that
>> the heat closes in on you, so I also pick my stops to be the shadiest and
>> tallest spots around, so they usually have a breeze.
>> As far as that asbestos chamois goes, you want the least insulation you
>> can put on your body - I wear the lightest weight merino and MUSA shorts,
>> and this the best application I know for a Brooks saddle.
>>
>> On Monday, July 17, 2017 at 8:50:32 AM UTC-5, Tim wrote:
>>
>> The 5 day forecast here in KC is for mid to upper 90s (94 being the
>>> "coolest" high temp, 98 being the hottest) with lows of mid to upper 70s,
>>> sunny, 50-60% humidity and zero chance of rain. Light winds for this area,
>>> always out of the SW. Kansas City Ultra Cycling has moved the start time
>>> for Friday's Belgium Day 100K ride from 9:00 am to 6:30 am to beat some of
>>> the heat.
>>>
>>> Personally, there are zero days per year that I consider too hot to
>>> ride. I sweat like crazy and I seem to hold up to the heat very well,
>>> although my fitness is not where I'd like and I need to lose weight, so I
>>> may not ride the Belgian ride, but I'll be on my bike every day, with rides
>>> between 15 and at least 50 miles. I am, admittedly short on common sense,
>>> though.
>>>
>>> Anyway, I know it's hot everywhere so how about you guys? I know Riv's
>>> don't melt because HQ is over 100 degrees quite often. Stay hydrated out
>>> there! I'm going shopping online for an asbestos chamois!
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: How hot is too hot?

[Lee Legrand]

Well Steve,

Everyone should take caution when cycling in hot and humid weather, no
matter what age it is.  Dehydration is not notice at first until it is too
late.  Saying that, I have no age in particular but if toleration of
extreme temperature and condition is not tolerated as well as we get older.

On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 3:43 PM, Steve Palincsar <palin...@his.com> wrote:

>
>
> On 07/17/2017 03:06 PM, Lee Legrand wrote:
>
> EasyRider,
>
> Never taken a ride in 95 degree weather in humidity but I do think, and to
> reiterate Ash, make sure you bring water on those rides to stay hydrated
> and be prepared to have more breaks.  Younger people can tolerate those
> extreme conditions but* as you get older, you can less tolerate those
> conditions it may be that you should not ride because it is too extreme.*
> Hot and humid weather conditions on top of your body producing more heat
> and perspiration to keep the body cool is not a good combination.
>
>
> Did you have any particular age in mind when you said "as you get
> older"?
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: How hot is too hot?

[Lee Legrand]

EasyRider,

Never taken a ride in 95 degree weather in humidity but I do think, and to
reiterate Ash, make sure you bring water on those rides to stay hydrated
and be prepared to have more breaks.  Younger people can tolerate those
extreme conditions but as you get older, you can less tolerate those
conditions it may be that you should not ride because it is too extreme.
Hot and humid weather conditions on top of your body producing more heat
and perspiration to keep the body cool is not a good combination.

On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 2:23 PM, Ash [who works to bike] 
wrote:

>
> This summer I did 3 longish rides so far on my Appaloosa-  Mt Diablo, Mt.
> Hamilton and yesterday from South Bay area over Santa Cruz mountains to
> coast - 55 miles.   As luck would have it, any day I had any spare time was
> 90 degrees plus.  It was quite uncomfortable and difficult, given my lack
> of practice and endurance.  However, I didn't face any trouble during the
> ride or the day after.  I do two things (1) bring extra water and a bottle
> or two of sports drink (2) Take many breaks.
>
> Some portions of these rides (while climbing, where my speed is  like 4
> miles per hour) I took off the helmet and wore a hiking hat, which helped
> me stay cooler.  My thoughts same as EasyRider: 100 deg might be my cutoff
> point.
>
>
>
> On Monday, 17 July 2017 06:50:32 UTC-7, Tim wrote:
>>
>> The 5 day forecast here in KC is for mid to upper 90s (94 being the
>> "coolest" high temp, 98 being the hottest) with lows of mid to upper 70s,
>> sunny, 50-60% humidity and zero chance of rain. Light winds for this area,
>> always out of the SW. Kansas City Ultra Cycling has moved the start time
>> for Friday's Belgium Day 100K ride from 9:00 am to 6:30 am to beat some of
>> the heat.
>>
>> Personally, there are zero days per year that I consider too hot to ride.
>> I sweat like crazy and I seem to hold up to the heat very well, although my
>> fitness is not where I'd like and I need to lose weight, so I may not ride
>> the Belgian ride, but I'll be on my bike every day, with rides between 15
>> and at least 50 miles. I am, admittedly short on common sense, though.
>>
>> Anyway, I know it's hot everywhere so how about you guys? I know Riv's
>> don't melt because HQ is over 100 degrees quite often. Stay hydrated out
>> there! I'm going shopping online for an asbestos chamois!
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: (GIF) Don't know how this can be explained

[Lee Legrand]

That looks real to me. The air pressure that is typically on the front of
the body was removed and basically had air hitting the head and shoulder
and passing around the body.

On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 9:37 PM, ascpgh  wrote:

> Sort of beckons the story of Rollie Free and his Bonneville record run on
> a Vincent HRD motorcycle in 1948, in the same position.
>
> Andy Cheatham
> Pittsburgh
>
> On Sunday, July 2, 2017 at 4:50:07 PM UTC-4, Ash A wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> https://twitter.com/markzohar/status/876847118190878720
>>
>>
>> Can aerodynamics make that much difference?!  Others are cranking like
>> machines, yet how can he pass them like he's powered by a jetpack.  Perhaps
>> it is a video trick.
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Aging and Exercise

[Lee Legrand]

Hi Chris,

I tend to think both are beneficial and should be part of a healthy
lifestyle.  I am a firm believer in strength training because having muscle
becomes more important as you age since testosterone decrease and we tend
to lose muscle starting at age 30, without exercising.  Lifting weights
ensures that we can be active longer and be able to live a independent life
down the road and ward of problems like obesity, fatigue, diabetes etc.
In fact, when done correctly, you can achieve the health benefits of
interval training with weight training.  I cant find a reliable source on
the internet but if you do some digging, look up Arthur Jones and West
Point academy in which he put young cadets thru an experiment in which he
compare weight training cadets thru a circuit group and and those who did
traditional cardio.  Those who did the circuit improved as much and more
than those who did the cardio in cardiovascular health.  He did not call it
interval training but when you are moving from one machine to the next,
working intensely, you are essentially doing interval like training. So one
could incorporate a interval training in cardio like exercises or in weight
training or do them separately but I do think strength training and
interval training has to be part of it.

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 12:16 PM, Ash A  wrote:

> Related, interval training is what GP advocates in "Eat Bacon Don't Jog"
>
> There a few fun (and every effective) exercises in the book.
>
>
> On Wednesday, 21 June 2017 07:08:18 UTC-7, Addison wrote:
>>
>> Given the interest in cycling and aging amongst this group I thought this
>> story/study might be of interest:
>>
>> https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/03/23/well/move/the-best-exe
>> rcise-for-aging-muscles.html?mc=aud_dev=keywee=
>> dommob_0=367955_4=1372898_1=605799=
>> http://m.facebook.com
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Addison Wilhite, M.A.
>>
>> Academy of Arts, Careers and Technology
>> 
>>
>> *“Blazing the Trail to College and Career Success”*
>>
>> Educator: Professional Portfolio 
>>
>> Blogger: Reno Rambler 
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: On downsizing (and the 1 bike, and 650b)

[Lee Legrand]

I think using what you have and adding what is needed or used is all we
should have.  The accumulations of bicycles is nice but you cant just ride
them all, all the time and justification for having them lessen the reason
to have them.  I read or heard that the late comedian Robin Williams had
many bicycles because he loved how each of them ride but if he were alive,
I doubt he could have ridden all of them to justify having so many.  So
many options to pick from bicycles that ride well and give enjoyment but at
the same time, do we need that many bicycle?

On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 2:05 PM, Bob K.  wrote:

> This is always an interesting thought experiment, if nothing else. I've
> decided that n=2 for me: a Sam (with 42 Soma Shikoros) and a Surly Troll
> (with 3" WTB Rangers). I'm going to roll with this combination for the
> foreseeable future--maybe even take DP's advice and do three years--that
> seems like the minimum amount of time one would need to practice
> contentment. As an interesting connection, my stable "ballooned" from one
> to two bikes after my daughter was born. She's 2.5 now, and the Sam has
> proven to be capable as a kid hauler, but I'm happy to add the Troll to
> take over that role.
>
> That said, in your situation, with your bikes, I'd sell what I have and
> buy the Atlantis and two wheelsets. As the father of a 2.5 year old, I
> don't think that swapping wheels is that big of a deal. If you've got
> cantis or v-brakes (or any other brakes) it's a super simple process and
> while it might add a few minutes to you getting out of the house, if that
> amount of time is going to affect whether or not you can go for a ride, you
> probably shouldn't be going in the first place. Also, it's not like you
> can't commute on big nobbies--or ride trails on slicks--if the three
> minutes to swap wheels is really going to make or break your ride.
>
> So yeah, I'd say get the Atlantis. I would've bought one back in 2009 when
> I bought my Sam if I could've afforded it, and even though my two-bike
> stable more than takes care of everything that an Atlantis can do (and
> more), I still covet one.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Bob K. in Baltimore
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders - worth the safety risks? Rethinking my fender use.

[Lee Legrand]

Dear Ron,

I was just speaking to someone about squirrels while driving and how that
person tries to avoid hitting them but she mentioned that they always seem
to run across the street, at the last minute.

On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 9:06 AM, Ron Mc <bulldog...@gmail.com> wrote:

> squirrels are more frightening than charging deer, because they try twice
> to run through your spokes.
> A buddy was laughing me on a wooded greenway for ringing my bike bell at
> squirrels.
>
> On Monday, May 29, 2017 at 7:54:16 AM UTC-5, Lee Legrand wrote:
>>
>> Dear John,
>>
>> Did a squirrel get stuck within the wheel while riding, causing the crack
>> in the fork?
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Fenders - worth the safety risks? Rethinking my fender use.

[Lee Legrand]

Dear John,

Did a squirrel get stuck within the wheel while riding, causing the crack
in the fork?

On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 8:17 AM, John Hawrylak 
wrote:

>
> Steel, Al, Ti or Carbon???
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ 
>
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Save Bruce Gordon Cycles

[Lee Legrand]

FWIW, BG sounds like any number of people I've worked with over the years -
to be honest, as I've grown older myself, I feel that I've become less
patient with these sorts of folks. But at a basic humanitarian level, I can
see how BG deserves could use some help.

Hi Steve Chan,

I cannot comment about Bruce Gorden personally since I never spoken to him
but the comments of his attitude or behavior seems consistent to what I
have read over the internet over the years.

I use to think that as I got older, I became less tolerant of people when
they did things that I disapprove of or did things which I thought were
unnecessary and cruel.  I understand your frustration but I am actually
going the opposite way to where I started of being more tolerant.  For a
person who has left jobs because I felt excessively exploited and
mistreated, my opinion, although you did not ask, is that you cant take it
personally when have bad behaviors.  It is allowing people pull your
strings and you are giving them license to do so.  People with bad
attitudes hurt themselves in the end and it is no reflection on you as a
person.

That was a hard lesson I had to learn because it had to be done repeatedly
until I got it.  Its not you so do not take it personally and do not allow
anyone to take away your peace.

On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 11:02 AM, R Gonet  wrote:

>
> Gordon's attitude is a big turnoff for me.  If he wants to scrap his bikes
> and cut off his nose to spite his face, I say let him do it.  And ask him
> to post some photos for us to see it happen.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: OT: rain gear for warm weather backpacking

[Lee Legrand]

Naked while walking in the woods with a backpack.

On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 4:44 PM, Philip Kim  wrote:

> hey dave,
>
> live in dc and grew up in VA. I've used THIS
> 
> for summer rain and showers.
>
> still can get a bit hot.
>
> the best rain cycling jacket i've ever used is the POC rain jacket
> .
> very breathable, and cool but very expensive. sometimes can get too cool on
> brisk early spring / late fall mornings.
>
> On Friday, May 19, 2017 at 4:32:24 PM UTC-4, dstein wrote:
>>
>> I should clarify, it's just for the possibility of scattered showers over
>> a 3 day trip. Nothing crazy. Going east for the memorial day weekend in VA.
>> Normally in CA I can assume it will not rain for the next several months.
>>
>> On Friday, May 19, 2017 at 1:30:54 PM UTC-7, dstein wrote:
>>>
>>> What do you folks use for backpacking in warm weather (low's lower 60's,
>>> high's mid to upper 80's)? I have two rain jackets: both are sauna's when
>>> it's warm out. Is a disposable poncho the best bet? I see some poncho's on
>>> REI, are they less sauna like then the rain jackets?
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Beautiful Atlantis on EBay

[Lee Legrand]

Everyday I see people selling great bicycles.  It makes me think whether in
a society that we consume too much if we sell our belongings.  I am not
against selling of items that are no longer used but it is interesting that
people sell bicycle here alot.

On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 11:16 AM, John A. Bennett  wrote:

> Yes, that *would *be mythical.
>
> The pointy lugs indicate it's from the first batch of 100, delivered to
> Riv in the Fall of 2000.
>
> Cheers,
>
> John at Rivelo in Portland
>
> On Sunday, May 7, 2017 at 7:15:56 PM UTC-7, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>>
>> It's the extremely rare, some would say mythical, 1992 model, according
>> to The Pros Closet.
>>
>> On Sunday, May 7, 2017 at 5:21:57 PM UTC-4, Justin, Oakland wrote:
>>>
>>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/382050555993
>>>
>>> Not mine but wowza, that's a dream build.
>>>
>>> Good deal for the BiN price IMO.
>>>
>>> -Justin
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: OT: Japanese Woodworking

[Lee Legrand]

Chill

On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 9:27 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> For the record: I was not trying, nor am I trying, nor will I try to
> refute Patrick's habits and experience. I am trying, and will be trying,
> and have been trying, to state only what I state I am trying, will be
> trying, and have been trying to state. No more, no less.
>
> And that is: that many things work for many people, and that many things
> have worked for people across the millennia, and that one size hardly fits
> all.
>
> Oh, and that so much "popular" science is just popular, not science.
>
> Patrick "and I'm not being defensive, either" Moore, who is trying to sit
> cross legged more in order to loosen the hell up!
>
> On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 6:17 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:
>
>> The beauty of simple is it's simple to try for yourself and decide from
>> experience. The challenge of simple is it's very difficult to achieve given
>> the level of "noise" -- so it is easy to think we've tried it and rejected
>> it when really we haven't.
>>
>> With abandon and sardonic grins at the abandon and sardonic grins,
>> Patrick
>>
>> On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 6:10:14 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
>>> Damn, I meant, + 1 for what *David Parsons* said. Sheesh!
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: OT: Japanese Woodworking

[Lee Legrand]

Well, there is a alot of stuff on the internet about living simple and
getting back into natural predisposition in terms of food, clothing and
health.  Like the Paleo diet or barefoot shoes, or sitting on the floor
instead of chairs and natural clothing.  You must have seen stuff like this
on the web and similar

On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 5:10 PM, Orc <grr.grr@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 1:28:46 PM UTC-7, Lee Legrand wrote:
>>
>> Maybe wearing shoes of some sort but I think you are rushing to discredit
>> him a little to quickly Orc.
>>
>
> I'm not so much trying to discredit him as trying to see where that
> argument even comes from.  There have been awful shoes out there, but the
> awful designs don't last and people are still wearing shoes, which seems to
> contradict the argument by design.
>
>
> -david parsons
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: OT: Japanese Woodworking

[Lee Legrand]

Maybe wearing shoes of some sort but I think you are rushing to discredit
him a little to quickly Orc.  We may have been wearing padded shoes but we
cant say it has all been healed, cushioned and confined as they are for the
last 400 years.  We could make arguments that shoes were invented to
protect the feet thru weather, protection and abrasion of walking around
but I would like to see the shoes worn then and what we wear now for
comparison.  I think they will be a difference that it is the small
difference is what might validate Deacon Patrick argument.  For example, he
did mention shoes with no heals and I would doubt sincerely that shoes back
then, although wrapped the feet, did not confine the feet as today shoe.

On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 3:25 PM, Orc  wrote:

> On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 11:30:46 AM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>
>>  Our feet weren't engineered to be cushioned, supported, formed, and
>> imprisoned
>>
>
> Cite?   Humans have been wearing shoes for at least 10,000 years (and if
> the commentary on the net of a million lies is at all accurate, have been
> wearing shoes for considerably longer based on changes in toe bone
> thickness) which seems to run completely contrary to your argument?
>
> -david parsons
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: OT: Japanese Woodworking

[Lee Legrand]

Just out of curiosity Deacon because I was thinking of doing something
similar to that in terms of a table and trying to live more simply.  Can
you hook me up with books, youtube video's or resources on this kind of
floor living?  I still have a bed and mattress that I am attached to so I
do not think I will give those up but if I can live more on the floor like
having a lounging kind of chair or table to each, I think that would be
cool.  It is interesting you said something about posture.  I was having
some pains in my neck that seem to happen because of the chair I was
sitting in at work.  The only way I could relieve that pain was thru
getting up and more exercise to strengthen the back.  I am wondering if
squatting and living on the floor will help with that as well.

Thanks Deacon

On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Deacon Patrick <lamontg...@mac.com> wrote:

> Lee, floor living is living without chairs or a modern bed/mattress. My
> computer is at a kneeling desk. I am either sitting cross-legged, kneeling,
> squatting, standing, walking, or running. Bed is a few wool blankets made
> into a pad on the wood floor. Why?I started because of my brain injury, and
> everyone in our family followed at first because it was weird me on the
> floor and them not, but also because they also experience the vast
> improvements in posture, core strength, lithe and limberness.  Everything
> in my body moves more fluidly. Helps significantly with the vertigo being
> easier to "cut through."
>
> Ian, initial projects with the wood in hand are: work bench, saw horse
> (not much to see there), testing a platform bench for around our floor
> table (a repurposed cutting board, actually), and then school desks and a
> minimalist lap desk (utterly simple: a 14" x 5.6" maple board). Rather than
> clutter up the list here, I'll likely post them to my adventure blog:
> http://thegrid.ai/withabandon/
>
> RSS feed: http://thegrid.ai/withabandon/rss.xml
>
> Ian, great questions and comments!  I have no idea how common floor living
> is in Japan anymore -- only that it has survived longer in their culture
> than in most. Many Scandinavian countries have various versions of it as
> well to various degrees. As to swinging over the top tube, it's hard to
> forget the load on the bike. It's quite good at reminding you its there,
> especially when stopped (amazing how the bike stabilizes with the wheels
> moving!).
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 10:41:57 AM UTC-6, Lee Legrand wrote:
>>
>> Deacon,
>>
>> What do you mean by floor living?
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: OT: Japanese Woodworking

[Lee Legrand]

Deacon,

What do you mean by floor living?

On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 12:27 PM, Ian A  wrote:

> Deacon:
> 1) you do not look old - you look just right.
> 2) certainly not ugly - that pic could be advertising literature for what
> a man "should" look like.
> 3) I always swing my leg high. When touring with a load on the rack, I
> have no problem swinging the leg over the load and over the saddle It's
> stepping over the crossbar that my brain can't handle. I'd be kicking that
> load of wood in the dismount.
> 4) is floor living still widely practiced in Japan? I have the impression
> that Japanese people spend a good portion of their lives at work, spaces
> which are furnished. Maybe people there are getting used to chairs and
> couches.
>
> I have reduced my furniture to a single chair and the bed consists of a
> futon frame with a sheet of plywood over it and a 3" thick bedsize piece of
> foam. Not quite floor living yet, but the space and lack of furnitire
> clutter is relaxing. Also, when I come to move, packing and hauling will be
> a cinch.
>
> Please let us see photos of the woodworking project as it goes along
> (assuming it's not off topic for the list).
>
> Ian A.
>
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Re: [RBW] Wrapping handlebars

[Lee Legrand]

 Hi Bill,

What you last mentioned I did not think of until I finally finish putting
everything together.  I was rebuilding this bicycle and put all the parts
together and said, well, now it is time to wrap the bars and realize that
all the video's are wrapped with handlebars without bar end silver
shifters.  If I follow the recommendations in the video's, it would appear
I need to remove the bar end shifters just to wrap them and then, tuck,
them into the bar end with shifters but as I mentioned before, they are
thick and probably would have issues just putting that cork wrap in and
keeping it tight since it is a wedge connection.  I am not sure how secure
it would be, or if I am being a little to conservative, if I do as
recommended by not tucking it in and using a razor blade to cut the
access.  I do not want them to unravel down the road if I did not tuck it
in.

On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 7:05 PM, Bill Lindsay <tapebu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I use cloth tape exclusively now, but I wrapped many hundreds or thousands
> of bars with chubby tape (cork and fake-cork variants) in my past life
> working at bike shops.  With chubby tape, I recommend you still start at
> the bottom and that you still do not tuck any in the end.  It's natural to
> want to avoid that bulge on the end, so you do one of two things.
>
> 1.  Overhang the first half-wrap or so AS IF you were going to tuck it
> in.  Don't tuck it in.  When you are done, use a sharp xacto blade to slice
> it off.
> 2.  Cut a wedge shaped end to your tape, so it's got a nice cut edge to
> line up with the end of the bar on that first wrap around.
>
> I always wrap the bars with the barcon shifters OUT.  If you insist on
> wrapping the bars with the barcon shifters installed, then you should use
> method #2.
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Wednesday, May 3, 2017 at 12:43:35 PM UTC-7, Lee Legrand wrote:
>>
>> I have seen that one, Bob and Wally, but I wanted to know if people did
>> that using cork wrap tape.  That is thicker than the canvas cloth used in
>> the video.
>>
>> On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 2:49 PM, Wally Estrella <wallye...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Same here.  I don't do it enough to remember it and getting to old to
>>> try ;)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, May 3, 2017 at 1:57:31 PM UTC-4, Bob K. wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I watch this video from Riv every time I wrap bars:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tO8DcaOJzrA
>>>>
>>>> Bob K. in Baltimore
>>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: DON'T OPEN GOOGLE DOC

[Lee Legrand]

I never opened the doc because it looks so suspicious.  Why would you send
me a document and I hardly know you and it is not listed as part of any
group.  Thats why I never opened it.

On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 6:14 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:

> That's a good idea, Patrick. Thanks!
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: OT: Japanese Woodworking

[Lee Legrand]

Got to get me a hat like that. 

On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 1:54 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:

> RBW Content, so no longer off topic! Here's (5) 1"x6"x8' and (3) 2"x6"x8'
> pine boards, cut in half and hauled in panniers (pus bits in the saddle
> bag).
> http://thegrid.ai/withabandon/getting-into-hand-powered-woodworking/
>
> On Saturday, April 29, 2017 at 4:43:23 PM UTC-6, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>
>> Well, I've certainly got enough "simple" coming my way next week to get
>> me in trouble for a very long time trying to catch up with it! Grin.
>> Sharpening: yes. Core. Essential. Basics. Takes five minutes to begin, a
>> lifetime to learn. One of the things I've learned is that once I have the
>> basics I have to learn the basics. And when I "need" more to advance, that
>> usually means I need to return to the basics and get better at them
>> instead. Grin. I have found this universally true, in marriage, prayer,
>> faith, footwear, furniture, cooking, biking, running, parenting... ... ...
>> Grin.
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
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Re: [RBW] Wrapping handlebars

[Lee Legrand]

I have seen that one, Bob and Wally, but I wanted to know if people did
that using cork wrap tape.  That is thicker than the canvas cloth used in
the video.

On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 2:49 PM, Wally Estrella 
wrote:

> Same here.  I don't do it enough to remember it and getting to old to try
> ;)
>
>
> On Wednesday, May 3, 2017 at 1:57:31 PM UTC-4, Bob K. wrote:
>>
>> I watch this video from Riv every time I wrap bars:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tO8DcaOJzrA
>>
>> Bob K. in Baltimore
>>
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Re: [RBW] Wrapping handlebars

[Lee Legrand]

I have always seen it wrapped from the bottom up with it wrapping going
outward from the top.  Just wanted to see everyone opinion on whether it
should be tucked. I have not done it yet but it seems that it will be too
tight to have that cork edge wedge using the bar end shifters.  It may not
even work but I am fine with possibly taping that end since the cork is
black.

On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 12:07 PM, Tim Gavin <tim.ga...@littlevillagemag.com>
wrote:

> Yes, in case I wasn't clear, my above suggestion works with wrapping from
> the bottom up.
>
> I dislike wrapping from the top down because the overlap is the wrong way
> on the bar tops.  The edges of the tape get curled up pretty quickly.
>
> On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 10:53 AM, Patrick Moore <bertin...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I always wrap from bottom upwards. This has the advantage that the
>> spirals overlap on the downward side, so that hand pressure doesn't
>> separate them.
>>
>> Tape at the end point near the stem clamp.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 8:43 AM, Lee Legrand <krm2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> I am wrapping my handlebars on a bicycle that I rebuilt but I wanted to
>>> ask a question about the ends.  This bicycle has Riv bar ends and typically
>>> youtube videos show that the wrap without these bar ends but tucked into
>>> the ends with plugs.  My question is, how is it typically done when using
>>> bar end shifters when this fit looks to be really tight?  Do you tape it at
>>> the ends with electric tape or is it do able to tuck it in with bar
>>> shifters?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
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[RBW] Wrapping handlebars

[Lee Legrand]

Hello all,

I am wrapping my handlebars on a bicycle that I rebuilt but I wanted to ask
a question about the ends.  This bicycle has Riv bar ends and typically
youtube videos show that the wrap without these bar ends but tucked into
the ends with plugs.  My question is, how is it typically done when using
bar end shifters when this fit looks to be really tight?  Do you tape it at
the ends with electric tape or is it do able to tuck it in with bar
shifters?

Thanks,

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Re: [RBW] Re: OT: Japanese Woodworking

[Lee Legrand]

There must be a book on Japanese joinery.  I seen on Japanese joinery for
cabinet making years ago.

On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 7:03 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:

> My general approach has become far more clear. There is plenty of
> information available on Japanese tools, but not much on joinery specifics.
> Thus my plan is:
>
> -- use Japanese tools because they are designed for using on the floor
> (angles, cutting on the pull rather than push, etc).
> -- use standard western joinery that I can find easily as I learn Japanese
> joinery as I find it.
>
> This is likely a good thing as just looking as some of those Japanese
> joints boggles me poor wee brain. Sardonic grin.
>
> Eric, the place in Maine no longer Japanese joinery.
>
> Takashi -- I'd imagine you grew up with "floor living"? (and likely just
> considered it "living).
>
> Garth. Ha! Aye, all cultures floor lived, until their royalty sat in
> chairs and other emulated it. Grin.
>
> Mike -- thanks! Fascinating looking book.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
>
> On Friday, April 28, 2017 at 5:34:08 AM UTC-6, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>
>> Thank you, gents! Update: I've talked with both Hida Tool (excellent
>> resource and my choice for tools). They suggested I talk with the guy who
>> only comes in Saturdays, so I will. and Japanese Wood Worker (now owned by
>> Wood Craft, so kind of like getting help on timber framing at Home Depot).
>> Eric, I'll check out woodworking Magazine and the Center for Furniture
>> Craftsmanship in Maine. I've also made contact with Jay van Arsdale and Hap
>> Stanley (of shapton.com sharpeners), so we'll see where that goes.
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
>> On Thursday, April 27, 2017 at 12:12:19 PM UTC-6, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>>
>>> Does anyone know good books or online resources or someone willing to
>>> share the craft via video conference? If so, could you please email me off
>>> group (lamontglen [at} mac dot com)?
>>>
>>> Since we floor live it’s hard to find furniture. Since I’ve been able to
>>> work in my own bike shop, we’ve wondered if this is the next step of brain
>>> therapy.
>>>
>>> Thanks! We now return you to your Riv Bunch programing...
>>>
>>> With abandon,
>>> Patrick
>>>
>>> www.CredoFamily.org
>>> www.MindYourHeadCoop.org
>>>
>>>
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