Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

I know the 51cm stayed the same, not sure where the longer ones started. On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 6:46 PM Bones wrote: > In an email back in early September, Will mentioned that they have > lengthened the chainstays on the newest Sams. The 60cm now has 48.5cm > chainstays... which is pretty

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

Slightly longer chain stays, not much, since it now takes a larger tire compared to sidepull version — hooray. Geometry is essentially same otherwise I believe. I have a 62 double TT, wife has a 58, both sidepulls. The newer 60 canti is of so close geometrically to the 62 sidepull. Tom On Sat,

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

In an email back in early September, Will mentioned that they have lengthened the chainstays on the newest Sams. The 60cm now has 48.5cm chainstays... which is pretty close to the 61.5 Homer (49cm). Tubing, tire clearance and brake type seem to be what sets them apart. Bones On Saturday,

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

"Sam shorter than Homer" My guess is it's an older design they've decided to leave alone for buyers wary of the super-long stays of the newer models. On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 12:36:42 PM UTC-8 Sean B. wrote: > Why do you think the chainstays on the Hillborne are shorter than the AHH?

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

Not sure but happy they are. Very happy with the Sam. On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 3:36 PM Sean B. wrote: > Why do you think the chainstays on the Hillborne are shorter than the AHH? > With the AHH being more of a roadish bike, I would imagine it would be > opposite. > > On Sunday, September 6,

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

Why do you think the chainstays on the Hillborne are shorter than the AHH? With the AHH being more of a roadish bike, I would imagine it would be opposite. On Sunday, September 6, 2020 at 10:35:49 AM UTC-5 bjmi...@gmail.com wrote: > What I really like about Rivendell is that they do have a

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

What I really like about Rivendell is that they do have a handful of frames that will work for you no matter what...and that there are little nuanced differences between Sam/Homer, Atlantis/Joe, etc... The differences in sizing between the two helps cover all pbh sizes...I'm a touch over 93cm,

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

I'll guess the Sam has gone back to being canti because the Homer is now MIT also. Now costs are similar (same?), both have 6 deg top tubes, etc. May as well make the brakes different. I think choosing between a new Sam or Homer based on brake style preference would make a lot of sense. Of

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

And for me, a side pull CHG kills it. Those long reach sidepulls are weak and flexy. No thanks. Eric V brake fan On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 10:10 PM Jason Fuller wrote: > From an engineering perspective, what I appreciate about side-pull brakes > is that all the clamping forces are contained

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

How the canti-Sam became a sidepull-Sam early on involves a guess on my part based on more arcane Riv knowledge than I should probably admit to harboring: Originally the Sam showed up as a canti MIT version of the Toyo/Waterford Saluki/Homer caliper bike. I believe the caliper Ram was still

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

>From an engineering perspective, what I appreciate about side-pull brakes is that all the clamping forces are contained within the brake itself, ie it does not exert any bending force on the fork/frame like a canti or v-brake does. Even the braking force goes to the crown of the fork rather than

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

New newer newest ... Standard oversised ... normal short long ... Traditional ... All relative terms whose meanings morph and evolve and the use of which may or may not make sense to one depending on how long you've been paying attention. >From where I sit the waterford AHH and atlantis were

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

This change baffled me too, when I was buying my 2018 (in 2019, the last one Rivelo had) it was a huge deal for me. Glad to see another run of them, in my eyes the Hillborne is the last holdout of the more "traditional" Riv designs that ended a few years ago. On Saturday, 5 September 2020

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

Typo, Homer. Damn iPad. On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 7:12 PM Patrick Moore wrote: > The original Sams had cantilever brakes; why did Rivendell switch to > calipers? It seems to me that the Sam is the sort of bike -- allroad or > country bike -- that obviously needs cantilevers (or V brakes; heck,

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

The current ones use cantilevers, the Hoper uses dude pulls. On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 7:12 PM Patrick Moore wrote: > The original Sams had cantilever brakes; why did Rivendell switch to > calipers? It seems to me that the Sam is the sort of bike -- allroad or > country bike -- that obviously

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

The original Sams had cantilever brakes; why did Rivendell switch to calipers? It seems to me that the Sam is the sort of bike -- allroad or country bike -- that obviously needs cantilevers (or V brakes; heck, for that matter discs, if Rivendell used discs; just not calipers) for tire and fender

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

The new ones are canti’s I think? Did Riv make other changes? On Thursday, September 3, 2020 at 11:54:48 PM UTC-4, Nathan Mattia wrote: > > My 51cm Sidepull Samwise is PERFECT for my 80 PBH and 5’9” height, > especially when set up with Albatross bars. Best fitting bike I’ve ever > had. > > >

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

My 51cm Sidepull Samwise is PERFECT for my 80 PBH and 5’9” height, especially when set up with Albatross bars. Best fitting bike I’ve ever had. On Thursday, September 3, 2020 at 7:01:28 PM UTC-5, Joel wrote: > > > I like the Sam H a lot, if I do decide to sell the Bleriot I would want a >

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

I like the Sam H a lot, if I do decide to sell the Bleriot I would want a Sam because from all I have gathered it would be a great fit in 51cm for me. The Homer May be a tad taller from I information I have gathered from a forum member. Also, nice to have one with a shorter chainstays as well.

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

I do sometimes wonder if I shouldn't have went with the Homer for the lighter tubing, but the Sam is by no means sluggish or heavy feeling for having the stouter tubes of the two. I have mine built up pretty lightweight (for what it is), it's around 27 lbs with accessories but no bags. I came

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

Rich, speed is not important, I want the most stable and comfortable ride with a bike that fits the best. You have given me great info, thanks. Ride report on the Atlantis should be later today. On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 11:39 AM R Shannon wrote: > Joel, > > I’ve not verified this with the Riv

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

Dorothy, I did see that, I could take almost every part from the Bleriot and use them on the Homer but on the Sam I would need new brakes. Not a big deal but I do like those side pulls. On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 11:17 AM Dorothy C wrote: > Different brake styles would be the main thing, now that

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

I just replied to Joel's other thread and I think this is exactly what I was feeling between the two bikes. Love the lively ride of the AHH. On Thursday, September 3, 2020 at 11:39:52 AM UTC-4, RichS wrote: > > Joel, > > I’ve not verified this with the Riv folks but the weight difference >

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

Thanks Erik, I looked at the geometry charts as well. I was also given some good info regarding the 2 in standover height, both 51cm with 38cm tires. On Thursday, September 3, 2020 at 12:16:06 PM UTC-4, Erik Wright wrote: > > A couple notes after watching Russ's review at Path Less Pedaled,

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

A couple notes after watching Russ's review at Path Less Pedaled, too: 1. He notes 45.5cm chainstays. He rides the 650b version, which (according to this geometry chart ) could mean that the geo of the new batch of

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

Joel, I’ve not verified this with the Riv folks but the weight difference between the two seems like it would be in the tubing. My Homer and Sam have identical setups but Homer is two pounds lighter (says a bathroom scale). It also feels a touch lighter just lifting it and ditto for the ride.

[RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

Different brake styles would be the main thing, now that Sams are V brake On Thursday, September 3, 2020 at 7:05:38 AM UTC-7 Joel wrote: > Old thread, I wonder if now since both are MIT and both now have the same > TT slope if the opinions expressed hold. Also I don’t know if the tubing > is

[RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

Old thread, I wonder if now since both are MIT and both now have the same TT slope if the opinions expressed hold. Also I don’t know if the tubing is now the same. On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 9:39:25 PM UTC-4, Paul Choi wrote: > > I'm new to Rivendell bikes and to this forum. I'm

[RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

Sorry, Ron. I was replying to a poster who said OP should also check out the Atlantis. Didn't mean to hijack the thread. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send

[RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

ok, I got confused by this one - Atlantis is the full-load touring flagship - I thought we were talking about similarities and differences of Sam and Homer. On Thursday, August 17, 2017 at 2:40:10 PM UTC-5, John G. wrote: > > I could be wrong, but I thought the main tubing difference between

[RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

Paul: Your future black Sam sounds like a good call, but I, too, think that some Walnut Creek test rides will help you decide. (Here's a picture of my blue Sam.) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this

[RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

The Sam is a really super bike. Bought one with albatross bars, sks fenders, mark's rack. My (tall) wife rode it and loved it, so she has that Sam now. Then I got another one with the noodle drop bar, which is what I shoulda gotten in the first place. Now we each have what we love.

[RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

I concur that you should make the jaunt to RBW and do test rides. First, it would be awesome, well worth the trip to see the shop in person, and actually talk the people who will be building your bike. Second, and more importantly, riding and getting a sense of what works best for you. I

[RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

I could be wrong, but I thought the main tubing difference between the Atlantis and Homer was that the Atlantis had a beefier fork. My 61cm Atlantis rides light for my 200 lb body. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

Paul, Yes, do go to RivHQ and do some test rides. As others have noted, the overlap among the bikes is significant enough that the opportunity to ride the bikes will make your decision easier. My Sam and Atlantis feel like they weigh about the same (both set up with racks and baskets). There

[RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

Hey Paul, Since you are only an hour away from Riv HQ, it is definitely worth driving up and test-riding. While you are there, be sure to ride an Appaloosa as well :) When I visited Riv the first time, I rode it just out of curiosity and I ended up going with it instead of the bike I was

[RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

For an "all-around bike that used for commuting, light touring and some occasional off road riding" I think it is also is worth considering the Atlantis. I think the Atlantis tubing is actually lighter than the Sam Hill, but they may have made changes since the early ones, so I'm not sure

[RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

Thank you for the awesome pictures. I think there is a black Sam coming my way in October :) On Tuesday, August 15, 2017 at 11:37:02 PM UTC-7, lum gim fong wrote: > > https://www.flickr.com/gp/70237737@N00/FL1pRc > > https://flic.kr/p/FRbnBN > -- You received this message because you are

[RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

https://www.flickr.com/gp/70237737@N00/FL1pRc https://flic.kr/p/FRbnBN -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to

[RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

https://flic.kr/p/jTpszH https://flickr.com/photos/70237737@N00/sets/72157633085407086 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to

[RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

Paul, I can only talk about my Sam and I have not been disappointed in the ride of the bike at all. Mine has Albatross bars and I like the setup for most of the riding I do. It feels solid when I ride it which instills a sense of confidence. The only downside to this bike is the sloping top

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

I have a first gen canti Sam 60 cm single TT in Metallic green with gold decals. While it's a great loaded tourer it's a bit heavy for commuting and general unloaded riding. If the extra $$ is not an issue I would go with an AHH to avoid the overkill double TT and get the slightly lighter tube

[RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

Hi Paul, I was in your situation last October. I wanted an AHH, but knew about the Sam. What solved the dilemma for me was going to Rivelo in Portland, and trying out the Sam. One ride, and I was sold. It is as good as everyone here says it is. To be fair, I never tried an AHH, but now I

[RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

I have a Sam so I can only speak to it. It's a beautiful bike and I'm running copper fenders so my tires are not as wide and they are Jack Brown Blue so about 33.3 in width a Nitto front rack and a basket in front plus Sackville bags. It's my do everything bike and it does gravel and road rides

[RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

I've seen both SH and AHH and have an Atlantis, so I get the Rivendell thing. I'd get the Sam. It's got all the bells and whistles and because Taiwan... is a lot less $$$. Not less bike, repeat... not less bike... less $$$. The lug/frame work on the SH is superb. Maybe... it's 6-8 ounces

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

I would love to see some pictures of your Sam's if you guys are willing to post them. I rode a 51 Sam on Saturday at Silva in Campbell and really think this is what I want. It was a blue/green color. I have my heart set on a blue color or black. Now I just wait for a used one on the list or

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

My sage green Sam is plenty fast enough and cushy running Compass 38mm Loup Loup Pass tires. Best regards, Richard -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

Ride a lot. Fartlek. On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 8:48:20 PM UTC-4, Jonathan D. wrote: > > Any advice, beyond colors, to make the Sam a "go fast" bike? > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group

[RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

My sense of it is Hillborne is the all-road gravel-grinder light touring bike, and Hilsen is Rivendell's version of a Rando. I think all Rivbikes overlap in a good way. . On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 8:39:25 PM UTC-5, Paul Choi wrote: > > I'm new to Rivendell bikes and to this forum. I'm

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

Orange IS fastest, but I'm too slow for it ;-) A complete Sam with dropbars is set up well as a go-fast out the door. Those large rotating wheels are the first place to look if you want to drop some weight and spin-up faster. Rich @ Riv can hook you up with something along the lines of what

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

I've heard orange is the fastest color. I hope so because getting a Sam next week from the list. AHH is not in the cards and I have a Joe. Any advice, beyond colors, to make the Sam a "go fast" bike? This will be my faster bike with racks but not setup for kids. -- You received this message

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

Color counts for a lot, too. I don't care for the current orange, and not much for the grey/blue a lot of them came with, either. I liked the older Porsche green, and the sage hue. I heard they're doing some black ones again soon..that's a lovely bike. -- You received this message because

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

The Hilsen will be a perfect fit for you. I use my Saluki like you describe often. So will the Hillborne. I would find out which one would let you get your bars where you want them and the tires that you want and the price that you want. -Justin -- You received this message because you are

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

I'm not sure it's useful to reject an opinion about riding conditions with "nobody knows" and "being being" (I don't know what that means). Most of the folks on this forum have a lot of experience with different rides on different bikes, and I would agree that grocery shopping is not the same

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

On the surface I may agree with you. However, I can find no source of such an assumption. There are endless "depends", which is another way of saying "I don't know" , nor does anyone else, there is no detailed to the core Absolute "manual of existence". There is really is no

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

I have owned an AHH since 2011. I would get the AHH vs. the Sam. The AHH will do all your stated riding very well. I love the ride of mine and it replaced 9 other bikes. I don't miss them. I built mine with an emphasis on lighter weight and more roadish (per this list) style. That said, I can

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

Patrick, not sure riding home with groceries will put the same stress on a frame as touring on rough roads day after day On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 6:26 PM Patrick Moore wrote: > I agree with Rich, Garth and Grant, but I will add: depending on the > rider's weight, it is

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

Former Sam owner. It can do everything you intend to do with it. In the 2 top tube version, it rode a lot like my 83 specialized expedition touring bike. I easily was able to fit 50mm tires, and with Paul racers it stopped as well as any of my canti bikes. I don't know if the clearances are

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

I agree with Rich, Garth and Grant, but I will add: depending on the rider's weight, it is possible to carry heavy-ish loads on a thinner-tubed frame. I regularly carry heavy grocery loads on my Road Custom, and the very best rear loader of all the many, many bikes I've owned -- loads up to 45 lb

[RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

At least a year or so ago Grant did a lengthy Sam write-up on the Blug where he said he couldn't tell the difference between the SH and his AHH when he rode them. Garth is right about fit. A bike that doesn't hit your sizing sweet spot can be a source of discontent. Ask me how I know! I do

[RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

I have both, and I agree with the Deacon. From the standpoint of pure joy when riding I like the Homer more; it feels lighter and more responsive when riding, although it's also smooth and stable. After my first ride on it I told my wife that I ever had to reduce my N to 1, the Homer is a

[RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

Sam. The riding you just described is what the Sam is made for. AHH is more a zippy road bike designed for dirt roads too. Could you do all you describe on either? Yup. However, if both were available and price was no object, you'd still want the Sam for the riding you describe. Added bonus: