[RBW] Re: New Clem L Owner - Initial reaction

['Ann L' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Tim:

Welcome to the forum and i'm glad you are enjoying the bike.  RBW bikes are 
meant to be ridden and I hope you have many happy experiences with your new 
bike.

Ann

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Re: [RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Joe Bernard]

Update: I replaced the stock Kenda Kwick tires (good, solid commuter 
workhorses, but they're notorious in all wheel sizes for a dead ride) with 
Fatty Rumpkin Force Fields. What a revelation! Even though they're narrower 
than the Kwicks, they still deliver a plusher ride while inexplicably also 
feeling more nimble. And lighter! They definitely feel better with the motor, 
but I made sure to pedal unassisted, too, so I could compare to when I've 
ridden the Kendas the same way. 

If you own a Clem or any other Riv with Kenda Kwicks, I strongly recommend 
better tires for your fine bicycle. The difference is noticeable and wonderful. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Joe Bernard]

Ash: Your riding conditions are pretty much why ebikes exist. It's a way to 
stay on the bike and get some exercise while still showing up for work safely, 
on time, and not a sweaty mess..it replaces a car. I do it for fun and to get 
up the monster hills around here, but commuting is really what these things are 
made for.   

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Re: [RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Ash [who works to bike]]

Thanks Joe!

You will get a flood of emails when I start this project :)

For you it is headwinds and hills.  For me it is 3 dozen  or so stop signs 
and traffic lights on the way to work (23 miles).  I'm thinking with a 
motor assist (a) my knees would feel better as I don't need to crank 0 to 
12mph 30 times each way (b) I can shave 10-15 mins in each direction (c) 
I'll be riding safer, as it won't feel like too much effort to make a full 
stop and then start at stop signs and other risky spots.  With full manual 
peddling, once I'm a bit tired, not only I feel lazy to make a full, but 
sometimes I jump red lights when there is no traffic at the intersection. 
 I'd rather make a full stop than invite dirty stares  or encourage other 
less responsible riders to start jumping lights


On Thursday, 24 August 2017 20:50:22 UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Btw, Ash (and anyone else), if you want to yak more about my electric 
> build, gimme a holler at joeremi 62 at g mail dot com. I could yammer all 
> night about this stuff here, but they'd run me outta Rivtown ;-) 

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Re: [RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Joe Bernard]

Btw, Ash (and anyone else), if you want to yak more about my electric build, 
gimme a holler at joeremi 62 at g mail dot com. I could yammer all night about 
this stuff here, but they'd run me outta Rivtown ;-) 

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Re: [RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Joe Bernard]

Ash, I feel ya about ebikes. My first mid-drive was a dedicated ebike from 
Haibike, which was fun, but once the thrill of assisted pedaling wore off I 
became acutely aware that I was riding a basic Chinese aluminum hybrid with a 
boat-anchor suspension fork. Bogus! So I sold that on to the next fellow who 
wasn't quite ready to cobble together his own build and did this. Rivs are 
great; eRivs..also great!

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Re: [RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Joe Bernard]

Thanks, Ryan, the stealthiness is accomplished by putting two Mini Cube 
batteries from lunacycle.com in the TrunkSack. Most of these conversions have 
an huge battery attached to downtube water bottle bosses, which gives more 
range but adds weight and HEY I'M AN EBIKE! 

Ash, check that site for Bafang BBS02 to learn about mid-drive kits. Settle in 
and pop something cold, there's a TON of reading to do there :-)

Here's a few 'final build' shots from today's ride (which I'm still in the 
middle of). I added the basket, a ShopSack, and PDW grips which will eventually 
darken like the Select saddle. The jury is still out on the Bosco Bars: I feel 
WAY far away from the front wheel, and I'm getting some sail effect in 
crosswinds. I'll probably swap my Albas in to see how I like it. Whelp, back to 
the ride!

https://goo.gl/photos/HqvPx24LBJhmVpjv9

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Re: [RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Ryan Fleming]

barely notice the e-drive; it's quite unobtrusive 

On Sunday, August 20, 2017 at 10:00:44 PM UTC-5, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Clem L goes electric.
> "Judas!"
> (Grant will get that one)
>
> I did the deed today and it's fabulous. Honestly it's kind of ridiculous 
> how well this Riv model accepts and works with a mid-drive kit; it's smooth 
> and stable enough to handle the extra weight and speed, and it still turns 
> and stops really well (changing my mind about thinking I need discs). The 
> black kit even "hides" well with this color and the battery in the 
> TrunkSack. I know it's not everyone's cup o' joe, but boy did I appreciate 
> the assist in that killer headwind on the way back from Benicia to Vallejo 
> this evening. (Hi to the guy on the root beer Roadeo at Benicia State Park!)
>
> The last pic isn't lit well, but I wanted to show something I'd never 
> thought of until I owned a step-through..check out the water bottle access. 
> I've never been good at grabbing a bottle while pedaling a diamond frame 
> with upright bars (too far away), but this design puts it way up there in 
> front of you. Nice!
>
> I tend to buy and sell bikes without getting too attached to them, but I 
> think I'm going to keep this one. It's beautiful, does the things I need it 
> to do, and it just fits me. Which brings me to a thought about my (now sold 
> to a happy rider) Appaloosa that hadn't really sunk in until today: It was 
> also beautiful and I loved the ride, but there was always a nagging sense 
> that it was meant to be ridden more and harder than I was up to, like 
> buying a Honda Goldwing touring motorcycle and riding it to 7-Eleven. It 
> wasn't really ME, and Clem L is. Which is probably weird, but that's ok! 
> Thanks for humoring me and looking at my new bike. 
>
> https://goo.gl/photos/J5Y4fDycfG896hNP9
>
>

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Jeremy Till]

On downshifts, yes.  Upshifts are still accomplished with one stroke of the 
lever.  

I would say that for being indexed (hiss, boo), these Shimano front 
shifters/derailleurs do work great once properly adjusted (and assuming 
you're using appropriate chainrings), way better than some other major 
manufacturers of shifting systems (cough cough SRAM cough), so I'm willing 
to forgive them the extra step on downshifting.  

Personally, all my bikes with a front derailleur have a friction front 
shifter.  

On Monday, August 21, 2017 at 5:35:22 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Wait, you're supposed to shift twice for one chainring??

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Re: [RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Ash [who works to bike]]

Joe,  this's probably one of the best e-bikes out there!  I'm saying this 
because I've tried a bunch of them and they are all terrible as a bicycle. 
 I'm spoilt by the ride quality of my Joe, which the main reason I don't 
have an e-bike.  

Your add-on kit does not look all that clunky.  I'd have to explore this 
option.  Could you share some details about this unit?

 
On Sunday, 20 August 2017 20:00:44 UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Clem L goes electric.
> "Judas!"
> (Grant will get that one)
>
> I did the deed today and it's fabulous. Honestly it's kind of ridiculous 
> how well this Riv model accepts and works with a mid-drive kit; it's smooth 
> and stable enough to handle the extra weight and speed, and it still turns 
> and stops really well (changing my mind about thinking I need discs). The 
> black kit even "hides" well with this color and the battery in the 
> TrunkSack. I know it's not everyone's cup o' joe, but boy did I appreciate 
> the assist in that killer headwind on the way back from Benicia to Vallejo 
> this evening. (Hi to the guy on the root beer Roadeo at Benicia State Park!)
>
> The last pic isn't lit well, but I wanted to show something I'd never 
> thought of until I owned a step-through..check out the water bottle access. 
> I've never been good at grabbing a bottle while pedaling a diamond frame 
> with upright bars (too far away), but this design puts it way up there in 
> front of you. Nice!
>
> I tend to buy and sell bikes without getting too attached to them, but I 
> think I'm going to keep this one. It's beautiful, does the things I need it 
> to do, and it just fits me. Which brings me to a thought about my (now sold 
> to a happy rider) Appaloosa that hadn't really sunk in until today: It was 
> also beautiful and I loved the ride, but there was always a nagging sense 
> that it was meant to be ridden more and harder than I was up to, like 
> buying a Honda Goldwing touring motorcycle and riding it to 7-Eleven. It 
> wasn't really ME, and Clem L is. Which is probably weird, but that's ok! 
> Thanks for humoring me and looking at my new bike. 
>
> https://goo.gl/photos/J5Y4fDycfG896hNP9
>
>

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

[masmojo]

Great looking Clem(entine); I enjoy my Original Orangie, but looking at yours 
makes me wish I'd waited. I'd gladly sacrifice the curved stays for that 
wonderful seat cluster lug , normalish sized post & other refinements. It will 
be interesting to see how this model continues to evolve slowly over time.

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Fullylugged]

I think the curved stays add so much to the look of the bike too. That's what 
drew me to this frame (with it's very subtle curve) for a relative with a 
less-than-Riv budget and who I am helping put together a bike for. This picture 
is close to what ours will look like (no fenders and racks for starters). As 
regards Clem L, a local rider ordered one complete from RBW and she loves it 
afaik. We also have a Glorius that is NEVER taken out for a ride locally, that 
I can't talk the owner into selling. But I digress.

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-MsjpHQbR1bQ/WYZjPfJcZNI/DDA/ks9npDGBJmMDBoB_aqg-iYhE86BRuHzgwCLcBGAs/s1600/NewAlbionStarling2.JPG

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Re: [RBW] Re: New Clem L

[WETH]

Joe,
Late to this thread, but allow me to echo others in heaping kudos upon your 
beautiful bike.  I wondered when you would go electric with it.
Enjoy!
Erl

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Joe Bernard]

Wait, you're supposed to shift twice for one chainring??

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Jeremy Till]

That plastic insert is something that they started doing on the higher end 
11spd groups and now it looks like it has trickled down to Claris.  Its 
function is related to the indexing on those higher end road groups.  They 
actually made the downshift onto the small rings two step: one click shifts 
the chain but keeps the cage close to/touching the chain to prevent the 
chain derailing during the shift, and a second click trims the derailleur 
cage away from the chain once it's settled into gear.  The plastic is there 
so to keep things quiet during that process.  It's so quiet that I'm sure 
most guys don't actually realize they need to click twice for the full 
shift.  

On Saturday, August 19, 2017 at 2:57:56 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Here's a thing I've never seen before. I just pulled the Claris fd and 
> discovered this plastic insert to push the chain. You wear out the plastic 
> instead of the cage? Narrows it down for 9-speed, take it off for 8? Hmm..
>
> On Saturday, August 19, 2017 at 2:24:23 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
> > Update on weight (still no actual scale): Yeah, after moving this bike 
> around a bunch today I'd say I was a little optimistic. It feels like 32-33 
> with rack and fenders..probably around 30 lbs. without (but with a Brooks). 
> If you really wanted to weight-weenie a Clem (silly!) you could use the 
> plastic saddle Riv sells and replace the steel chainrings. You wouldn't, 
> but you could :-)
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Joe Bernard]

Clem L goes electric.
"Judas!"
(Grant will get that one)

I did the deed today and it's fabulous. Honestly it's kind of ridiculous how 
well this Riv model accepts and works with a mid-drive kit; it's smooth and 
stable enough to handle the extra weight and speed, and it still turns and 
stops really well (changing my mind about thinking I need discs). The black kit 
even "hides" well with this color and the battery in the TrunkSack. I know it's 
not everyone's cup o' joe, but boy did I appreciate the assist in that killer 
headwind on the way back from Benicia to Vallejo this evening. (Hi to the guy 
on the root beer Roadeo at Benicia State Park!)

The last pic isn't lit well, but I wanted to show something I'd never thought 
of until I owned a step-through..check out the water bottle access. I've never 
been good at grabbing a bottle while pedaling a diamond frame with upright bars 
(too far away), but this design puts it way up there in front of you. Nice!

I tend to buy and sell bikes without getting too attached to them, but I think 
I'm going to keep this one. It's beautiful, does the things I need it to do, 
and it just fits me. Which brings me to a thought about my (now sold to a happy 
rider) Appaloosa that hadn't really sunk in until today: It was also beautiful 
and I loved the ride, but there was always a nagging sense that it was meant to 
be ridden more and harder than I was up to, like buying a Honda Goldwing 
touring motorcycle and riding it to 7-Eleven. It wasn't really ME, and Clem L 
is. Which is probably weird, but that's ok! Thanks for humoring me and looking 
at my new bike. 

https://goo.gl/photos/J5Y4fDycfG896hNP9

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Re: [RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Patrick Moore]

Very odd; I've never seen that before, either. To quiet what might
otherwise be loud shifts from badly adjusted derailleur?

On Sat, Aug 19, 2017 at 3:57 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:

> Here's a thing I've never seen before. I just pulled the Claris fd and
> discovered this plastic insert to push the chain. You wear out the plastic
> instead of the cage? Narrows it down for 9-speed, take it off for 8? Hmm..
>
> On Saturday, August 19, 2017 at 2:24:23 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
> > Update on weight (still no actual scale): Yeah, after moving this bike
> around a bunch today I'd say I was a little optimistic. It feels like 32-33
> with rack and fenders..probably around 30 lbs. without (but with a Brooks).
> If you really wanted to weight-weenie a Clem (silly!) you could use the
> plastic saddle Riv sells and replace the steel chainrings. You wouldn't,
> but you could :-)
>
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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Joe Bernard]

Update on weight (still no actual scale): Yeah, after moving this bike around a 
bunch today I'd say I was a little optimistic. It feels like 32-33 with rack 
and fenders..probably around 30 lbs. without (but with a Brooks). If you really 
wanted to weight-weenie a Clem (silly!) you could use the plastic saddle Riv 
sells and replace the steel chainrings. You wouldn't, but you could :-) 

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Joe Bernard]

Hi Bill, the new 45/52s have a smaller seattube than the first batch; they use 
a 26.8 post like the Appaloosa. I'm planning to replace with an S83 - love me 
some setback and two bolts - but Riv is out of stock at the moment. 

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Bill M.]

Joe,

I have a 27.2 seatpost in my Clem, with an aluminum shim.  Works perfectly. 
 Shims are only a few bucks, if you have a nice standard post around you 
might go that way. 

Bill
Stockton, CA


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Re: [RBW] Re: New Clem L

[R Shannon]

A John's Irish Strap from Riv works fine. And it has a multitude of uses. As an 
example, see Grant's latest Blahg.

Best,
Richard

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 18, 2017, at 7:19 PM, 'Ann L' via RBW Owners Bunch 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I weigh 115 lbs.  My 46 cm Appaloosa with bags weighs 32 lbs and I have to 
> carry it up three flights of stairs.  I will usually grab the middle of the 
> top tube with my right hand and carry it low, balancing some of the weight 
> against my hip.  I use my left hand to guide/support the grip on the 
> handlebar.  I'm very intrigued by the Velo wheel stabilizer.  Has anyone used 
> one?  Not having to keep the handlebars from hitting me, the stairs, or the 
> railings would give me additional carrying options.
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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

[anniebikes]

Congratulations on owning a Clementine! I have one also. Before you cut the 
bars, considering living with them a while. At first I found them VERY 
awkward, and didn't know if I could EVER get used to them, but with time 
I've found the boscos to be very versatile and once I put my own ergonomic 
grips on, I ran out of handlebar real estate. They are truly unique handle 
bars.

On Wednesday, August 9, 2017 at 6:21:31 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Got it yesterday, did a few miles shakedown/adjust-stuff ride today. To 
> steal Velouria's blog name, what a lovely bike! It has the magical 
> smooth-but-maneuverable Riv ride, and boy is that low toptube nice at when 
> hopping on and off. After years of enjoying the low stepover of folding 
> bikes, I find the high tube on "regular" bikes a mostly unnecessary 
> obstacle, so this is wonderful (bonus: no bars crashing into tubes!).
>
> Details: Those Boscos reach WAY back; I'll be lopping an inch off before 
> the next ride. 
>
> The SunRace shifters are reversed 9-speed click/friction, and only the 
> right friction-only shifter has any kind of ratchet effect when pushing to 
> lower/easier cogs. The original ratchety shifters on the first Clem run had 
> a lot of clicks on both sides, both directions, and I found them hard to 
> operate on the demo Clem H I ride last year. To help explain what's new: if 
> you mounted these normally, they're the same as Shimano bar-ends with pure 
> friction front, index or pure friction rear. As installed they both work 
> great in friction mode.
>
> The gearing is perfect with 38-24 chainrings and pie plate 9-speed 
> cassette. Grant's right, it's hard to imagine why you would need a big ring 
> up front.
>
> Although the ride is similar - maybe a little more relaxed/cushy - to the 
> Appaloosa I sold, the vibe is VERY different. With the sit-up riding 
> position, mixte frame, and certainly with the green paint on this one, 
> there's very much a "Raleigh 3-speed" thing going on which I get a kick out 
> of. I rode in my standard costume of MUSA shorts, Pletscher T-shirt and Riv 
> fake-leather gloves..all good..but this is the first time my swoopy 
> Specialized helmet and Oakley M Frames felt completely ridiculous on a 
> bicycle. I think I need a beret! 
>
> I love the heart seatlug, which only works on mixte frames. It sits high, 
> proud and pretty, and leaves the impression (in my mind) of someone 
> creating a lug, then designing a bicycle around it. Here's some pics I took 
> today and yep...I forgot to do a lug closeup. Doh!
>
> https://goo.gl/photos/P4TKso4xaSWNDA6Y9
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Eric Floden]

A velcro pantleg reflector between fromt wheel and front downtube?

On Aug 18, 2017 8:54 PM, "Joe Bernard"  wrote:

> I have a Velo Deflopinator (not currently in use, it's around here
> somewhere). You can set it up with enough tension to keep the wheel from
> slamming over into your toptube, but its ability to keep a wheel straight
> while portaging is limited. It helps, but having it tight enough to have
> the front end hardly move would be too tight for riding.
>
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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Joe Bernard]

I have a Velo Deflopinator (not currently in use, it's around here somewhere). 
You can set it up with enough tension to keep the wheel from slamming over into 
your toptube, but its ability to keep a wheel straight while portaging is 
limited. It helps, but having it tight enough to have the front end hardly move 
would be too tight for riding. 

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

['Ann L' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I weigh 115 lbs.  My 46 cm Appaloosa with bags weighs 32 lbs and I have to 
carry it up three flights of stairs.  I will usually grab the middle of the 
top tube with my right hand and carry it low, balancing some of the weight 
against my hip.  I use my left hand to guide/support the grip on the 
handlebar.  I'm very intrigued by the Velo wheel stabilizer.  Has anyone 
used one?  Not having to keep the handlebars from hitting me, the stairs, 
or the railings would give me additional carrying options.

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

[REC]

Hi, Lum.

Weight is an issue for me, because I have to lift a bike high to store it 
on the bike wall rack (it's the upper most bike) in a long narrow hallway.  
I know bike stores think I'm nuts, but I make sure I can lift every bike I 
consider.  I could not lift the 2016 Clementine; perhaps the 2017s are 
lighter.  I can lift my Joe A. with rack and bags, but it's not easy, 
especially when I'm tired from my ride.  I was able to lift a Cheviot and 
it was a lot lighter than I thought it would be.  I own the Joe.

Probably more subjective than you're looking for, but perhaps this will 
help a little.  I'm in my late 50's and this is part of my strength 
training  :)  . 



Hi, Mark in Beacon.

I use a bungee cord to keep my front wheel from flopping around when 
lifting it.  hook on water bottle cage, thru wheel, back to water bottle 
cage.



Roberta  

On Thursday, August 17, 2017 at 3:43:57 PM UTC-4, lum gim fong wrote:

> Hi Joe,
>
> How much does your Clem L weigh?
> Looking for something lighter than 32lbs. complete for the wife. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Ryan Fleming]

I will have to check that out. Also the nose of the saddle idea

I felt a little embarassed about mentioning this, but I thought the group 
would have some good ideas, and you did! So thanks for that!

On Friday, August 18, 2017 at 7:56:33 AM UTC-5, ericf3 wrote:
>
> Just a thought...would something like a VO Wheel stabilizer help free up a 
> hand?  
> Never used one but am thinking of steering dampers from my motorbike 
> days...
>
> EricF
> Rainy Golden Lake Ont
>
>
>
> On Aug 18, 2017 8:47 AM, "'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch" <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com > wrote:
>
>
>
> I live in a third-floor walkup apartment. When going down the stairs, I 
> carry my Clem L with left hand on the headset area to prevent bar swing, 
> right hand gripping near chainstay. 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Joe Bernard]

"With a few accoutrements" is not how I quoted 25-27 lbs. I'm sure my bike is 
closer to 30 with the racks. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Eric Floden]

Just a thought...would something like a VO Wheel stabilizer help free up a
hand?
Never used one but am thinking of steering dampers from my motorbike days...

EricF
Rainy Golden Lake Ont



On Aug 18, 2017 8:47 AM, "'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch" <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:



I live in a third-floor walkup apartment. When going down the stairs, I
carry my Clem L with left hand on the headset area to prevent bar swing,
right hand gripping near chainstay.

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I would agree that 27 pounds for a Clem with a few accoutrements is 
optimistic. Although some of the tubes on the newer versions is not as 
oversize, that would have little affect.

I live in a third-floor walkup apartment. When going down the stairs, I 
carry my Clem L with left hand on the headset area to prevent bar swing, 
right hand gripping near chainstay. Coming up, left hand the same, right 
hand on the curve of the step thru tube, aka top tube. 

Because of the weight plus the large size (mine is 52), BOBs (Big Ol' 
Boscos) and lack of top tube, I would be hard pressed to carry this bicycle 
up and down stairs with one hand, though I could manage it going up if I 
had to. One handed stair descents with mixtes or step thru frames is always 
going to be problematic in my experience.



On Thursday, August 17, 2017 at 6:02:39 PM UTC-4, Ryan Fleming wrote:
>
> With all due respect I would be very surprised if the Clems weigh 25-27 
> lbs; I'd be more inclined to guess somewhere north of 30 lbs. I suspect my 
> custom is more than 30...the boxed bike with the uber-Riv protective 
> packaging weighed 35 lbs according to the customs stamp.  But as you said, 
> Joe, you didn't weigh it.And whatever it weighs , it's not a 
> deal-breaker...in my experience Rivs ride light whatever they weigh
>
> Now what interests me is what you said about carrying bikes up and down 
> stairs...because you wouldn't want to leave that pretty Clem locked to a 
> lightpost.
> Yeah, I will admit up and down the stairs is a challenge with mine because 
> I like one hand free for balance (been like this for quite a number of 
> years). With my other bikes with diamond frames, the top tube rests on my 
> shoulder so no problemo. 
>
> Maybe you guys and gals have some tips for schlepping step throughs up and 
> down stairs...kinda dumb, I know. But the garage is NOT an option for my 
> Rivendells , and I live in a pretty decent neighborhood  but shit happens 
> as we all know. 
>
> Thanks in advance for any advice in that regardRyan
>
> On Thursday, August 17, 2017 at 2:51:23 PM UTC-5, Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>> No idea, but I would guess around 25-27 lbs. without racks. As set up 
>> with racks mine is a little heavier, but it's pretty easy to carry the 
>> flight of stairs to my apartment by lifting at the curve of the top bar. 
>> Lifting up stairs is the only time weight is an equation with this bike; 
>> when on the pedals she flies! (if you feel like it)
>
>

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Joe Bernard]

I believe he's in El Cerrito. 

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

[lum gim fong]

Where is EC?

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Bill Lindsay]

Ryan Fleming mused:

"Maybe you guys and gals have some tips for schlepping step throughs up and 
down stairs...kinda dumb, I know. But the garage is NOT an option for my 
Rivendells , and I live in a pretty decent neighborhood  but shit happens 
as we all know. "

For bikes that lack a diamond frame, or for any reason prevent you from 
doing a 'top-tube-on-the-shoulder" portage, I've had some success with 
"saddle-nose-on-the-shoulder".  The balance point is similar.  Some saddle 
models cause some discomfort, particularly if the bike is more like 40 lbs 
with bags and such. 

BL in EC

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Joe Bernard]

Toptube on shoulder works for diamond frames, but I find as I've gotten older 
that hefting it up there can be a chore. With the Clem I bend my knees a 
little, one hand at curve, one hand on left handgrip, and stand up straight. I 
find this method a bit easier, but I wouldn't say either is significantly 
better than the other for normal bike weights. The latter becomes more 
important to me after I add the electric kit, which pretty much assures I need 
the "liftatube" feature, something you won't be dealing with. 

Thanks for the compliment on my pics!

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Ryan Fleming]

With all due respect I would be very surprised if the Clems weigh 25-27 
lbs; I'd be more inclined to guess somewhere north of 30 lbs. I suspect my 
custom is more than 30...the boxed bike with the uber-Riv protective 
packaging weighed 35 lbs according to the customs stamp.  But as you said, 
Joe, you didn't weigh it.And whatever it weighs , it's not a 
deal-breaker...in my experience Rivs ride light whatever they weigh

Now what interests me is what you said about carrying bikes up and down 
stairs...because you wouldn't want to leave that pretty Clem locked to a 
lightpost.
Yeah, I will admit up and down the stairs is a challenge with mine because 
I like one hand free for balance (been like this for quite a number of 
years). With my other bikes with diamond frames, the top tube rests on my 
shoulder so no problemo. 

Maybe you guys and gals have some tips for schlepping step throughs up and 
down stairs...kinda dumb, I know. But the garage is NOT an option for my 
Rivendells , and I live in a pretty decent neighborhood  but shit happens 
as we all know. 

Thanks in advance for any advice in that regardRyan

On Thursday, August 17, 2017 at 2:51:23 PM UTC-5, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> No idea, but I would guess around 25-27 lbs. without racks. As set up with 
> racks mine is a little heavier, but it's pretty easy to carry the flight of 
> stairs to my apartment by lifting at the curve of the top bar. Lifting up 
> stairs is the only time weight is an equation with this bike; when on the 
> pedals she flies! (if you feel like it)

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Joe Bernard]

No idea, but I would guess around 25-27 lbs. without racks. As set up with 
racks mine is a little heavier, but it's pretty easy to carry the flight of 
stairs to my apartment by lifting at the curve of the top bar. Lifting up 
stairs is the only time weight is an equation with this bike; when on the 
pedals she flies! (if you feel like it)

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

[lum gim fong]

Hi Joe,

How much does your Clem L weigh?
Looking for something lighter than 32lbs. complete for the wife. 

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Ryan Fleming]

Pretty much the same seat lug and fork crown as my (yet unridden - shame on 
me) custom mixte I got a while back which I hope to get on soon. Which adds 
to the attraction of the Clem and yet takes nothing away from my custom. 
Such a nice touch for Rivendell's 1500.00 bike.  Your newest photos are 
some of the best detail shots I've ever seen

On Wednesday, August 9, 2017 at 5:21:31 PM UTC-5, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Got it yesterday, did a few miles shakedown/adjust-stuff ride today. To 
> steal Velouria's blog name, what a lovely bike! It has the magical 
> smooth-but-maneuverable Riv ride, and boy is that low toptube nice at when 
> hopping on and off. After years of enjoying the low stepover of folding 
> bikes, I find the high tube on "regular" bikes a mostly unnecessary 
> obstacle, so this is wonderful (bonus: no bars crashing into tubes!).
>
> Details: Those Boscos reach WAY back; I'll be lopping an inch off before 
> the next ride. 
>
> The SunRace shifters are reversed 9-speed click/friction, and only the 
> right friction-only shifter has any kind of ratchet effect when pushing to 
> lower/easier cogs. The original ratchety shifters on the first Clem run had 
> a lot of clicks on both sides, both directions, and I found them hard to 
> operate on the demo Clem H I ride last year. To help explain what's new: if 
> you mounted these normally, they're the same as Shimano bar-ends with pure 
> friction front, index or pure friction rear. As installed they both work 
> great in friction mode.
>
> The gearing is perfect with 38-24 chainrings and pie plate 9-speed 
> cassette. Grant's right, it's hard to imagine why you would need a big ring 
> up front.
>
> Although the ride is similar - maybe a little more relaxed/cushy - to the 
> Appaloosa I sold, the vibe is VERY different. With the sit-up riding 
> position, mixte frame, and certainly with the green paint on this one, 
> there's very much a "Raleigh 3-speed" thing going on which I get a kick out 
> of. I rode in my standard costume of MUSA shorts, Pletscher T-shirt and Riv 
> fake-leather gloves..all good..but this is the first time my swoopy 
> Specialized helmet and Oakley M Frames felt completely ridiculous on a 
> bicycle. I think I need a beret! 
>
> I love the heart seatlug, which only works on mixte frames. It sits high, 
> proud and pretty, and leaves the impression (in my mind) of someone 
> creating a lug, then designing a bicycle around it. Here's some pics I took 
> today and yep...I forgot to do a lug closeup. Doh!
>
> https://goo.gl/photos/P4TKso4xaSWNDA6Y9
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New Clem L

[R Shannon]

Joe, nicely done! It's a beauty. Thanks for the drivetrain description.

Best,
Richard

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 16, 2017, at 4:29 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
> 
> Update with new pics, and more ride impressions with the stock drivetrain 
> before I (gasp!) electrify it. 
> 
> I cut an inch off the bars, swapped in a B17 Select from another bike, and 
> added the SOMA Porteur front rack I got from Ely at RuthWorkssf.com (thanks, 
> Ely!). 
> 
> As I said before, everything about this bike sells the vibe of an old Raleigh 
> 3-speed, just lighter/faster/better braking better handling. It can get up 
> and go when you jam the pedals, but there's a "what the heck are you doing?" 
> feel to it, like cruising down Hwy 1 through Big Sur in a convertible Mustang 
> and remembering there's no point in rushing. 
> 
> The 2-chainrings-plus-guard has an odd effect on my shifting technique. 
> Normally with a triple I run up and down the rings as I'm shifting in back, 
> so that the chainline stays relatively straight. For some reason my brain 
> understands this setup as 'big ring for most stuff, granny ring for steep 
> hills'. I ride it as a 1x9 that happens to have a bailout in dire 
> circumstances. Weird!
> 
> Another weird thing is the cranks are 173mm and I don't notice it. I always 
> ride 170 and really dislike 175, so I thought sure I would notice a 3mm 
> difference but nope. This bike is set up a certain way, and my body/brain 
> seems to adapt to it without a second thought of the differences from other 
> bikes I've ridden. Interesting!
> 
> The one debit I can think of is the stock pseudo-Nitto seatpost. The spec is 
> for 26.8 but I think this post is 26.7..I haven't pulled it to confirm but 
> the same post on my Appaloosa was. It takes some muscle to get it clamped in 
> there, plus there's a good bit of scratching on the sides from up/down. I'm 
> treating it as a seat-height-dialing-in adjuster, and will replace with a 
> 26.8 S83 when Riv has them back in stock. The seattube will get a little 
> deburring session before I install it. 
> 
> So it's fabulous. I'm almost a little shy about putting the mid-drive on it, 
> but Clem L is so smooth and stable. It's a perfect platform for the distances 
> and speeds I do with ebikes, and the step-through design gives me a liftatube 
> to heft it up stairs. It's gonna be fun!
> 
> https://goo.gl/photos/AocvMvSFvs4DqjV58
> 
> Joe Bernard
> Vallejo CA. 
> 
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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

[WETH]

Congrats Joe. The bike looks awesome!

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Joe Bernard]

Update with new pics, and more ride impressions with the stock drivetrain 
before I (gasp!) electrify it. 

I cut an inch off the bars, swapped in a B17 Select from another bike, and 
added the SOMA Porteur front rack I got from Ely at RuthWorkssf.com (thanks, 
Ely!). 

As I said before, everything about this bike sells the vibe of an old Raleigh 
3-speed, just lighter/faster/better braking better handling. It can get up and 
go when you jam the pedals, but there's a "what the heck are you doing?" feel 
to it, like cruising down Hwy 1 through Big Sur in a convertible Mustang and 
remembering there's no point in rushing. 

The 2-chainrings-plus-guard has an odd effect on my shifting technique. 
Normally with a triple I run up and down the rings as I'm shifting in back, so 
that the chainline stays relatively straight. For some reason my brain 
understands this setup as 'big ring for most stuff, granny ring for steep 
hills'. I ride it as a 1x9 that happens to have a bailout in dire 
circumstances. Weird!

Another weird thing is the cranks are 173mm and I don't notice it. I always 
ride 170 and really dislike 175, so I thought sure I would notice a 3mm 
difference but nope. This bike is set up a certain way, and my body/brain seems 
to adapt to it without a second thought of the differences from other bikes 
I've ridden. Interesting!

The one debit I can think of is the stock pseudo-Nitto seatpost. The spec is 
for 26.8 but I think this post is 26.7..I haven't pulled it to confirm but the 
same post on my Appaloosa was. It takes some muscle to get it clamped in there, 
plus there's a good bit of scratching on the sides from up/down. I'm treating 
it as a seat-height-dialing-in adjuster, and will replace with a 26.8 S83 when 
Riv has them back in stock. The seattube will get a little deburring session 
before I install it. 

So it's fabulous. I'm almost a little shy about putting the mid-drive on it, 
but Clem L is so smooth and stable. It's a perfect platform for the distances 
and speeds I do with ebikes, and the step-through design gives me a liftatube 
to heft it up stairs. It's gonna be fun!

https://goo.gl/photos/AocvMvSFvs4DqjV58

Joe Bernard
Vallejo CA. 

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Joe Bernard]

Yeah, there's a million old Univega and Nishiki mixtes out there with dropbars 
and "safety" brake levers. Every one of them needs 3-speed bars immediately!

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Re: [RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Patrick Moore]

Joe: When the end of your drop bar aligns perfectly with your top tube, you
do 2 things:

1. Install Velox bar end plugs, if you are not using bar end shifters.

2. If you are using bar end shifters, wind a big wad of left over handlbar
tape on the top tube at the point of meeting. Bam! No damage!

Patrick "did that on my Fargo" Moore

On Monday, August 14, 2017 at 1:16:33 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> I'd like to know how mixte/step-through ever developed a reputation as
"lady bikes" in this country. There's no logical reason for it, and the
rest of the world doesn't seem to care where the toptube goes as long as it
works. The big triangle of H-frames is necessary for super-stiff race
frames, but most of us don't need and don't use that feature. As I've said,
after many years of riding folders and 'bents with low-stepover frames, I
find high toptubes to be useful mostly for crashing my handlebars into.
Over it!

Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
Other professional writing services.
http://www.resumespecialties.com/
www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
**
**
*Interested in trading resume, LinkedIn, and other writing work for
professional (professional) help with marketing and growing my resumes,
etc. business. Respondents should have considerable experience in helping
small, online businesses grow. Please contact me at
patrickmo...@resumespecialties.com .
Thanks.*

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Chris Birkenmaier]

I agree with you Mark. That combo just doesn't do it for me in the looks 
department 

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I totally dig my mixte and my Clem L. But for a bicycle with drop bars, I 
must have a traditional diamond frame--preferably non-sloping. I just do 
not like the look of mixtes with drop bars, and I have the urge to convert 
every one I see to some version of an upright bar. Step through with drops? 
Just, no. Don't ask me for any logic regarding these dictates, it's just 
some weird atavistic hangup. 

On Monday, August 14, 2017 at 1:16:33 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> I'd like to know how mixte/step-through ever developed a reputation as 
> "lady bikes" in this country. There's no logical reason for it, and the 
> rest of the world doesn't seem to care where the toptube goes as long as it 
> works. The big triangle of H-frames is necessary for super-stiff race 
> frames, but most of us don't need and don't use that feature. As I've said, 
> after many years of riding folders and 'bents with low-stepover frames, I 
> find high toptubes to be useful mostly for crashing my handlebars into. 
> Over it! 

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Joe Bernard]

I'd like to know how mixte/step-through ever developed a reputation as "lady 
bikes" in this country. There's no logical reason for it, and the rest of the 
world doesn't seem to care where the toptube goes as long as it works. The big 
triangle of H-frames is necessary for super-stiff race frames, but most of us 
don't need and don't use that feature. As I've said, after many years of riding 
folders and 'bents with low-stepover frames, I find high toptubes to be useful 
mostly for crashing my handlebars into. Over it! 

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Tony DeFilippo]

Congrats on the great looking bike.  I love that green.  I was shocked at how 
rideable my wife's 52 Clementine is for me at 6'... I've got a set of Schwable 
G-one tires coming that I can't wait to try on that frame.

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Tony DeFilippo]

Congrats on the great looking bike.  I love that green.  I was shocked at how 
rideable my wife's 52 Clementine is for me at 6'... I've got a set of Schwable 
G-one tires coming that I can't wait to try on that frame.

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

['mlpessar' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Sweet bike Joe. I too love the color. A step-through is making more and 
more sense. I can definitely see a Clem L in my future. Wishing you many 
happy rides.



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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

['Ann L' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Real men ride mixtes ;)

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 5:42:46 AM UTC-5, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>
> As a fellow Clem L, aka Clementine, owner, I'm green with envy on that 
> color. The bike looks gorgeous. In my mind, it's almost impossible not to 
> like the ride of a Clem with Boscos. The Clem L is not a mixte, however, 
> it's a step-through--which only makes it that much more manly a choice, 
> especially if you get that beret. Many happy miles!
>
> On Wednesday, August 9, 2017 at 6:21:31 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>
>> Although the ride is similar - maybe a little more relaxed/cushy - to the 
>> Appaloosa I sold, the vibe is VERY different. With the sit-up riding 
>> position, mixte frame, and certainly with the green paint on this one, 
>> there's very much a "Raleigh 3-speed" thing going on which I get a kick out 
>> of. I rode in my standard costume of MUSA shorts, Pletscher T-shirt and Riv 
>> fake-leather gloves..all good..but this is the first time my swoopy 
>> Specialized helmet and Oakley M Frames felt completely ridiculous on a 
>> bicycle. I think I need a beret! 
>>
>> I love the heart seatlug, which only works on mixte frames. 
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Joe Bernard]

Ah, my bad, I always get confused between mixte and step-through. I've spent 
much time on folders and recumbents, and they all have low frames with no 
reference name other than "that's the frame." At any rate my step-through looks 
like a Dutch Bike to me so there it is, it's a Rivendell Dutch Bike! :-)

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Well if that's not the pot calling the kettle black... :)

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 8:53:54 AM UTC-4, Belopsky wrote:
>
> That he then sold :)
>
> Looks nice! 
>
> On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 4:49:27 AM UTC-4, REC wrote:
>>
>> It's a beauty.  I'm glad you're just as happy with this as you were with 
>> the appaloosa. 
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 9, 2017 at 6:21:31 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
>>> Got it yesterday, did a few miles shakedown/adjust-stuff ride today. To 
>>> steal Velouria's blog name, what a lovely bike! It has the magical 
>>> smooth-but-maneuverable Riv ride, and boy is that low toptube nice at when 
>>> hopping on and off. After years of enjoying the low stepover of folding 
>>> bikes, I find the high tube on "regular" bikes a mostly unnecessary 
>>> obstacle, so this is wonderful (bonus: no bars crashing into tubes!).
>>>
>>> Details: Those Boscos reach WAY back; I'll be lopping an inch off before 
>>> the next ride. 
>>>
>>> The SunRace shifters are reversed 9-speed click/friction, and only the 
>>> right friction-only shifter has any kind of ratchet effect when pushing to 
>>> lower/easier cogs. The original ratchety shifters on the first Clem run had 
>>> a lot of clicks on both sides, both directions, and I found them hard to 
>>> operate on the demo Clem H I ride last year. To help explain what's new: if 
>>> you mounted these normally, they're the same as Shimano bar-ends with pure 
>>> friction front, index or pure friction rear. As installed they both work 
>>> great in friction mode.
>>>
>>> The gearing is perfect with 38-24 chainrings and pie plate 9-speed 
>>> cassette. Grant's right, it's hard to imagine why you would need a big ring 
>>> up front.
>>>
>>> Although the ride is similar - maybe a little more relaxed/cushy - to 
>>> the Appaloosa I sold, the vibe is VERY different. With the sit-up riding 
>>> position, mixte frame, and certainly with the green paint on this one, 
>>> there's very much a "Raleigh 3-speed" thing going on which I get a kick out 
>>> of. I rode in my standard costume of MUSA shorts, Pletscher T-shirt and Riv 
>>> fake-leather gloves..all good..but this is the first time my swoopy 
>>> Specialized helmet and Oakley M Frames felt completely ridiculous on a 
>>> bicycle. I think I need a beret! 
>>>
>>> I love the heart seatlug, which only works on mixte frames. It sits 
>>> high, proud and pretty, and leaves the impression (in my mind) of someone 
>>> creating a lug, then designing a bicycle around it. Here's some pics I took 
>>> today and yep...I forgot to do a lug closeup. Doh!
>>>
>>> https://goo.gl/photos/P4TKso4xaSWNDA6Y9
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Belopsky]

That he then sold :)

Looks nice! 

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 4:49:27 AM UTC-4, REC wrote:
>
> It's a beauty.  I'm glad you're just as happy with this as you were with 
> the appaloosa. 
>
> On Wednesday, August 9, 2017 at 6:21:31 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>> Got it yesterday, did a few miles shakedown/adjust-stuff ride today. To 
>> steal Velouria's blog name, what a lovely bike! It has the magical 
>> smooth-but-maneuverable Riv ride, and boy is that low toptube nice at when 
>> hopping on and off. After years of enjoying the low stepover of folding 
>> bikes, I find the high tube on "regular" bikes a mostly unnecessary 
>> obstacle, so this is wonderful (bonus: no bars crashing into tubes!).
>>
>> Details: Those Boscos reach WAY back; I'll be lopping an inch off before 
>> the next ride. 
>>
>> The SunRace shifters are reversed 9-speed click/friction, and only the 
>> right friction-only shifter has any kind of ratchet effect when pushing to 
>> lower/easier cogs. The original ratchety shifters on the first Clem run had 
>> a lot of clicks on both sides, both directions, and I found them hard to 
>> operate on the demo Clem H I ride last year. To help explain what's new: if 
>> you mounted these normally, they're the same as Shimano bar-ends with pure 
>> friction front, index or pure friction rear. As installed they both work 
>> great in friction mode.
>>
>> The gearing is perfect with 38-24 chainrings and pie plate 9-speed 
>> cassette. Grant's right, it's hard to imagine why you would need a big ring 
>> up front.
>>
>> Although the ride is similar - maybe a little more relaxed/cushy - to the 
>> Appaloosa I sold, the vibe is VERY different. With the sit-up riding 
>> position, mixte frame, and certainly with the green paint on this one, 
>> there's very much a "Raleigh 3-speed" thing going on which I get a kick out 
>> of. I rode in my standard costume of MUSA shorts, Pletscher T-shirt and Riv 
>> fake-leather gloves..all good..but this is the first time my swoopy 
>> Specialized helmet and Oakley M Frames felt completely ridiculous on a 
>> bicycle. I think I need a beret! 
>>
>> I love the heart seatlug, which only works on mixte frames. It sits high, 
>> proud and pretty, and leaves the impression (in my mind) of someone 
>> creating a lug, then designing a bicycle around it. Here's some pics I took 
>> today and yep...I forgot to do a lug closeup. Doh!
>>
>> https://goo.gl/photos/P4TKso4xaSWNDA6Y9
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

As a fellow Clem L, aka Clementine, owner, I'm green with envy on that 
color. The bike looks gorgeous. In my mind, it's almost impossible not to 
like the ride of a Clem with Boscos. The Clem L is not a mixte, however, 
it's a step-through--which only makes it that much more manly a choice, 
especially if you get that beret. Many happy miles!

On Wednesday, August 9, 2017 at 6:21:31 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>
> Although the ride is similar - maybe a little more relaxed/cushy - to the 
> Appaloosa I sold, the vibe is VERY different. With the sit-up riding 
> position, mixte frame, and certainly with the green paint on this one, 
> there's very much a "Raleigh 3-speed" thing going on which I get a kick out 
> of. I rode in my standard costume of MUSA shorts, Pletscher T-shirt and Riv 
> fake-leather gloves..all good..but this is the first time my swoopy 
> Specialized helmet and Oakley M Frames felt completely ridiculous on a 
> bicycle. I think I need a beret! 
>
> I love the heart seatlug, which only works on mixte frames. 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

[REC]

It's a beauty.  I'm glad you're just as happy with this as you were with 
the appaloosa. 

On Wednesday, August 9, 2017 at 6:21:31 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Got it yesterday, did a few miles shakedown/adjust-stuff ride today. To 
> steal Velouria's blog name, what a lovely bike! It has the magical 
> smooth-but-maneuverable Riv ride, and boy is that low toptube nice at when 
> hopping on and off. After years of enjoying the low stepover of folding 
> bikes, I find the high tube on "regular" bikes a mostly unnecessary 
> obstacle, so this is wonderful (bonus: no bars crashing into tubes!).
>
> Details: Those Boscos reach WAY back; I'll be lopping an inch off before 
> the next ride. 
>
> The SunRace shifters are reversed 9-speed click/friction, and only the 
> right friction-only shifter has any kind of ratchet effect when pushing to 
> lower/easier cogs. The original ratchety shifters on the first Clem run had 
> a lot of clicks on both sides, both directions, and I found them hard to 
> operate on the demo Clem H I ride last year. To help explain what's new: if 
> you mounted these normally, they're the same as Shimano bar-ends with pure 
> friction front, index or pure friction rear. As installed they both work 
> great in friction mode.
>
> The gearing is perfect with 38-24 chainrings and pie plate 9-speed 
> cassette. Grant's right, it's hard to imagine why you would need a big ring 
> up front.
>
> Although the ride is similar - maybe a little more relaxed/cushy - to the 
> Appaloosa I sold, the vibe is VERY different. With the sit-up riding 
> position, mixte frame, and certainly with the green paint on this one, 
> there's very much a "Raleigh 3-speed" thing going on which I get a kick out 
> of. I rode in my standard costume of MUSA shorts, Pletscher T-shirt and Riv 
> fake-leather gloves..all good..but this is the first time my swoopy 
> Specialized helmet and Oakley M Frames felt completely ridiculous on a 
> bicycle. I think I need a beret! 
>
> I love the heart seatlug, which only works on mixte frames. It sits high, 
> proud and pretty, and leaves the impression (in my mind) of someone 
> creating a lug, then designing a bicycle around it. Here's some pics I took 
> today and yep...I forgot to do a lug closeup. Doh!
>
> https://goo.gl/photos/P4TKso4xaSWNDA6Y9
>
>

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Joe Bernard]

Hi Ann, yes, it's really pretty isn't it? I remember staring at a 60cm Cheviot 
in that color at RBW a year ago, and when the Clem L came out with it I jumped. 

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

['Ann L' via RBW Owners Bunch]

That's a really beautiful bike.  I loved that green since they first used 
it on Cheviot.

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Ash [who works to bike]]

It is a beautiful and practical bike!

congrats Joe

I dig that color!

On Wednesday, 9 August 2017 15:21:31 UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Got it yesterday, did a few miles shakedown/adjust-stuff ride today. To 
> steal Velouria's blog name, what a lovely bike! It has the magical 
> smooth-but-maneuverable Riv ride, and boy is that low toptube nice at when 
> hopping on and off. After years of enjoying the low stepover of folding 
> bikes, I find the high tube on "regular" bikes a mostly unnecessary 
> obstacle, so this is wonderful (bonus: no bars crashing into tubes!).
>
> Details: Those Boscos reach WAY back; I'll be lopping an inch off before 
> the next ride. 
>
> The SunRace shifters are reversed 9-speed click/friction, and only the 
> right friction-only shifter has any kind of ratchet effect when pushing to 
> lower/easier cogs. The original ratchety shifters on the first Clem run had 
> a lot of clicks on both sides, both directions, and I found them hard to 
> operate on the demo Clem H I ride last year. To help explain what's new: if 
> you mounted these normally, they're the same as Shimano bar-ends with pure 
> friction front, index or pure friction rear. As installed they both work 
> great in friction mode.
>
> The gearing is perfect with 38-24 chainrings and pie plate 9-speed 
> cassette. Grant's right, it's hard to imagine why you would need a big ring 
> up front.
>
> Although the ride is similar - maybe a little more relaxed/cushy - to the 
> Appaloosa I sold, the vibe is VERY different. With the sit-up riding 
> position, mixte frame, and certainly with the green paint on this one, 
> there's very much a "Raleigh 3-speed" thing going on which I get a kick out 
> of. I rode in my standard costume of MUSA shorts, Pletscher T-shirt and Riv 
> fake-leather gloves..all good..but this is the first time my swoopy 
> Specialized helmet and Oakley M Frames felt completely ridiculous on a 
> bicycle. I think I need a beret! 
>
> I love the heart seatlug, which only works on mixte frames. It sits high, 
> proud and pretty, and leaves the impression (in my mind) of someone 
> creating a lug, then designing a bicycle around it. Here's some pics I took 
> today and yep...I forgot to do a lug closeup. Doh!
>
> https://goo.gl/photos/P4TKso4xaSWNDA6Y9
>
>

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Davey Two Shoes]

Why did they do away with the swoopy seat stays? Thats one of my favorite 
things about the Clem!

Still great looking bike

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

[RichS]

Joe, congratulations! Great looking ride. The Clems are such nice riders.

Enjoy!
Richard

On Wednesday, August 9, 2017 at 6:21:31 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Got it yesterday, did a few miles shakedown/adjust-stuff ride today. To 
> steal Velouria's blog name, what a lovely bike! It has the magical 
> smooth-but-maneuverable Riv ride, and boy is that low toptube nice at when 
> hopping on and off. After years of enjoying the low stepover of folding 
> bikes, I find the high tube on "regular" bikes a mostly unnecessary 
> obstacle, so this is wonderful (bonus: no bars crashing into tubes!).
>
> Details: Those Boscos reach WAY back; I'll be lopping an inch off before 
> the next ride. 
>
> The SunRace shifters are reversed 9-speed click/friction, and only the 
> right friction-only shifter has any kind of ratchet effect when pushing to 
> lower/easier cogs. The original ratchety shifters on the first Clem run had 
> a lot of clicks on both sides, both directions, and I found them hard to 
> operate on the demo Clem H I ride last year. To help explain what's new: if 
> you mounted these normally, they're the same as Shimano bar-ends with pure 
> friction front, index or pure friction rear. As installed they both work 
> great in friction mode.
>
> The gearing is perfect with 38-24 chainrings and pie plate 9-speed 
> cassette. Grant's right, it's hard to imagine why you would need a big ring 
> up front.
>
> Although the ride is similar - maybe a little more relaxed/cushy - to the 
> Appaloosa I sold, the vibe is VERY different. With the sit-up riding 
> position, mixte frame, and certainly with the green paint on this one, 
> there's very much a "Raleigh 3-speed" thing going on which I get a kick out 
> of. I rode in my standard costume of MUSA shorts, Pletscher T-shirt and Riv 
> fake-leather gloves..all good..but this is the first time my swoopy 
> Specialized helmet and Oakley M Frames felt completely ridiculous on a 
> bicycle. I think I need a beret! 
>
> I love the heart seatlug, which only works on mixte frames. It sits high, 
> proud and pretty, and leaves the impression (in my mind) of someone 
> creating a lug, then designing a bicycle around it. Here's some pics I took 
> today and yep...I forgot to do a lug closeup. Doh!
>
> https://goo.gl/photos/P4TKso4xaSWNDA6Y9
>
>

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Joe Bernard]

Btw, "elegant" is kinda funny. The Clem project started as a 'Riv beater bike' 
from the youngsters there that was supposed to be flat black so it looked 
rattle-canned. Oops!

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Joe Bernard]

Thanks, Evan! Yeah, I fell in love with that color (someone here called it Acid 
Green, pretty cool) when it showed up on the Cheviot. I wasn't quite evolved 
(or rich enough) then for a mixte, so I jumped this time. It's hard to express 
how elegant the bike is in person, especially fendered and racked. I love it.  

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[RBW] Re: New Clem L

[Evan E.]

Beautiful bike, Joe! Love the color. 

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[RBW] Re: New Clem-L Bike Day

[Joe Bernard]

Jim, it's a Nitto R10 bag support I bought from someone here. It's kinda 
minimalist, it doesn't double as a rack for a trunk bag or panniers (you might 
make a Small Loafer fit). I like it 'cause it supports the Carradice I 
sometimes run, without having that "I'm a big empty rack" look when I don't 
need any more than a bar tube. 

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[RBW] Re: New Clem-L Bike Day

[Jim D Massachusetts]

Joe,What is the rear rack?  Jim D   
 Massachusetts

On Wednesday, August 17, 2016 at 6:29:10 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> On Sunday, August 14, 2016 at 4:10:23 PM UTC-7, LLM wrote: 
> > The Clem-L Complete that I pre-ordered back in April, arrived this past 
> Friday.  (Happy dance!!)  The photo was taken today during my first grocery 
> run with the bike.  The approximately 11-mile round trip is my longest ride 
> to date since a 2-year disability layoff from cycling, and recent hip 
> replacements.  The low gearing covered for my still low levels of fitness 
> and aerobic capacity, as I huffed and puffed across the rolling hills of 
> Albany, NY.  If it had not been in the 90's with oppressively high 
> humidity, I could have gone further.  Aside from the thumb shifters, which 
> I am still figuring out how to use well, riding the bike is easy and fun. 
> > 
> > 
> > I added the "requisite" Mark's Rack with a Wald medium basket and medium 
> Sackville ShopSack. The AXE Victory frame lock (recently added to the Riv 
> site) fits easily over the P65 fenders.  I like not having to fumble with a 
> u-lock.  I've stowed a cable lock in the Sackville Multisack for securing 
> the front wheel and frame to bike racks. The gum grips are by Rustine, and 
> bell by Spurcycle.  I usually ride Brooks saddles, and I have a B67S that I 
> thought I would put on the bike.  However, I'm finding the stock saddle to 
> be pretty comfortable, at least for short hops, and for now, I like not 
> having to worry about rain falling on leather.  I have a Pletscher Clem 
> rack in the wings that I will add at some point.  I'll probably also swap 
> in the nice Wellgo platform pedals from my Surly.  For now, the bike has 
> all I need. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > My early impression is that the bike is going to be perfect for me! 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Linda 
>
> Hey Linda, here's a couple new pics of Joe Blue. I swapped the Noodles for 
> the Choco-Mooseses that were on my Clem just to see how I like it. Enjoy, 
> lovers of blue Rivs!

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[RBW] Re: New Clem-L Bike Day

[Joe Bernard]

Ah, no, my Clem - which was just delivered to a list member - was green. And as 
you say about the blue, it changes significantly depending on the light. I 
found when seeing both blue bikes at RBW that the colors are closer than they 
appear in our respective photos. 

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[RBW] Re: New Clem-L Bike Day

[LLM]

Very nice!  I see how the Joe blue is lighter than the Clem blue.  So you 
have both bikes in blue?

On Wednesday, August 17, 2016 at 6:29:10 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> On Sunday, August 14, 2016 at 4:10:23 PM UTC-7, LLM wrote: 
> > The Clem-L Complete that I pre-ordered back in April, arrived this past 
> Friday.  (Happy dance!!)  The photo was taken today during my first grocery 
> run with the bike.  The approximately 11-mile round trip is my longest ride 
> to date since a 2-year disability layoff from cycling, and recent hip 
> replacements.  The low gearing covered for my still low levels of fitness 
> and aerobic capacity, as I huffed and puffed across the rolling hills of 
> Albany, NY.  If it had not been in the 90's with oppressively high 
> humidity, I could have gone further.  Aside from the thumb shifters, which 
> I am still figuring out how to use well, riding the bike is easy and fun. 
> > 
> > 
> > I added the "requisite" Mark's Rack with a Wald medium basket and medium 
> Sackville ShopSack. The AXE Victory frame lock (recently added to the Riv 
> site) fits easily over the P65 fenders.  I like not having to fumble with a 
> u-lock.  I've stowed a cable lock in the Sackville Multisack for securing 
> the front wheel and frame to bike racks. The gum grips are by Rustine, and 
> bell by Spurcycle.  I usually ride Brooks saddles, and I have a B67S that I 
> thought I would put on the bike.  However, I'm finding the stock saddle to 
> be pretty comfortable, at least for short hops, and for now, I like not 
> having to worry about rain falling on leather.  I have a Pletscher Clem 
> rack in the wings that I will add at some point.  I'll probably also swap 
> in the nice Wellgo platform pedals from my Surly.  For now, the bike has 
> all I need. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > My early impression is that the bike is going to be perfect for me! 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Linda 
>
> Hey Linda, here's a couple new pics of Joe Blue. I swapped the Noodles for 
> the Choco-Mooseses that were on my Clem just to see how I like it. Enjoy, 
> lovers of blue Rivs!

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[RBW] Re: New Clem-L Bike Day

[Nancy Seibel]

Nice! I gave one of these a test ride at Gravel & Grind. I was impressed. 
It's a great bike!

On Sunday, August 14, 2016 at 7:10:23 PM UTC-4, LLM wrote:
>
> The Clem-L Complete that I pre-ordered back in April, arrived this past 
> Friday.  (Happy dance!!)  The photo was taken today during my first grocery 
> run with the bike.  The approximately 11-mile round trip is my longest ride 
> to date since a 2-year disability layoff from cycling, and recent hip 
> replacements.  The low gearing covered for my still low levels of fitness 
> and aerobic capacity, as I huffed and puffed across the rolling hills of 
> Albany, NY.  If it had not been in the 90's with oppressively high 
> humidity, I could have gone further.  Aside from the thumb shifters, which 
> I am still figuring out how to use well, riding the bike is easy and fun.
>
>
> 
> I added the "requisite" Mark's Rack with a Wald medium basket and medium 
> Sackville ShopSack. The AXE Victory frame lock (recently added to the Riv 
> site) fits easily over the P65 fenders.  I like not having to fumble with a 
> u-lock.  I've stowed a cable lock in the Sackville Multisack for securing 
> the front wheel and frame to bike racks. The gum grips are by Rustine, and 
> bell by Spurcycle.  I usually ride Brooks saddles, and I have a B67S that I 
> thought I would put on the bike.  However, I'm finding the stock saddle to 
> be pretty comfortable, at least for short hops, and for now, I like not 
> having to worry about rain falling on leather.  I have a Pletscher Clem 
> rack in the wings that I will add at some point.  I'll probably also swap 
> in the nice Wellgo platform pedals from my Surly.  For now, the bike has 
> all I need.
>
> My early impression is that the bike is going to be perfect for me!
>
> Linda
>

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[RBW] Re: New Clem-L Bike Day

[LLM]

You have never steered me wrong, Joe.  ;-)   There's a quiet stretch of 
bike path near me that I'm planning to practice on.

On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 10:30:22 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Linda, you might get the hang of the infernal clicking after a few weeks. 
> I was admittedly on a borrowed bike and trying desperately to keep up with 
> people who ride a lot more than myself. This was not a good time for a 'new 
> part' test!

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[RBW] Re: New Clem-L Bike Day

[Joe Bernard]

Linda, you might get the hang of the infernal clicking after a few weeks. I was 
admittedly on a borrowed bike and trying desperately to keep up with people who 
ride a lot more than myself. This was not a good time for a 'new part' test!

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[RBW] Re: New Clem-L Bike Day

[LLM]

Thanks, Kai!  I will give the infernal clicking a little more time.  Good 
to know there is an easy fix if I decide to give up on them.

On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 1:28:00 PM UTC-4, Kai Vierstra wrote:
>
> Beautiful set up, and as has been mentioned on this list before, the 
> Silvers fit on the S.A. bases.
> Easy swap, but maybe not necessary if you can stand the infernal clicking.
> -Kai
> Brooklyn NY 
>

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[RBW] Re: New Clem-L Bike Day

[LLM]

Yespretty eyebrows and wings!  I understand that not all of the bikes 
are coming with these.I will be writing someone at Rivendell a nice 
thank you note.

I thought I'd give the shifters a chance and I did I make steady progress 
over the course of a weekend.  We'll see.  I do a lot of riding in city 
traffic, and I would like to have confidence that the pedals will be 
responsive when I step on them.  I will check out the Silver Power Ratchets.

On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 12:34:07 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Hey, you got cream details on the fork! Cool! Good luck with those 
> shifters..I had them on the Clem I borrowed for the Bike Snob Book Ride, 
> and *really* didn't like them. I'd take Silver Power Ratchets over those 
> things any day. 

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[RBW] Re: New Clem-L Bike Day

[LLM]

Thanks for all of the kind words and good wishes!  I dusted off my Flickr 
account and added a few more photos .


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[RBW] Re: New Clem-L Bike Day

[Daniel D.]

Nice bike. love the gray, blue, and silver together.   Congrats on being 
able to get out again for a ride!

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[RBW] Re: New Clem-L Bike Day

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Nicely appointed, and the color is super--the grayish silver of the P65s 
looks great with that wonderful blue, as does the stock gray saddle. Just a 
super looking, super capable bicycle!  I have the Rustine grips on two 
bikes, they look and feel great. But the stock grips on my Clementine are 
fine as well. I was considering the frame mounted wheel lock, and even 
attempted to get a group buy to offset shipping charges from, I think, 
England. Glad that Riv has them again, but I may wait to see what they get 
from Taiwan. Congratulations on your return to cycling. I doubt you could 
have picked a better bike for the task.

On Sunday, August 14, 2016 at 7:10:23 PM UTC-4, LLM wrote:
>
> The Clem-L Complete that I pre-ordered back in April, arrived this past 
> Friday.  (Happy dance!!)  The photo was taken today during my first grocery 
> run with the bike.  The approximately 11-mile round trip is my longest ride 
> to date since a 2-year disability layoff from cycling, and recent hip 
> replacements.  The low gearing covered for my still low levels of fitness 
> and aerobic capacity, as I huffed and puffed across the rolling hills of 
> Albany, NY.  If it had not been in the 90's with oppressively high 
> humidity, I could have gone further.  Aside from the thumb shifters, which 
> I am still figuring out how to use well, riding the bike is easy and fun.
>
>
> 
> I added the "requisite" Mark's Rack with a Wald medium basket and medium 
> Sackville ShopSack. The AXE Victory frame lock (recently added to the Riv 
> site) fits easily over the P65 fenders.  I like not having to fumble with a 
> u-lock.  I've stowed a cable lock in the Sackville Multisack for securing 
> the front wheel and frame to bike racks. The gum grips are by Rustine, and 
> bell by Spurcycle.  I usually ride Brooks saddles, and I have a B67S that I 
> thought I would put on the bike.  However, I'm finding the stock saddle to 
> be pretty comfortable, at least for short hops, and for now, I like not 
> having to worry about rain falling on leather.  I have a Pletscher Clem 
> rack in the wings that I will add at some point.  I'll probably also swap 
> in the nice Wellgo platform pedals from my Surly.  For now, the bike has 
> all I need.
>
> My early impression is that the bike is going to be perfect for me!
>
> Linda
>

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[RBW] Re: New Clem-L Bike Day

[Deacon Patrick]

Fantastic, Linda! Beautiful bike and how wonderful to get out and ride 
again! May you enjoy many happy miles together!

With abandon,
Patrick


On Sunday, August 14, 2016 at 5:10:23 PM UTC-6, LLM wrote:
>
> The Clem-L Complete that I pre-ordered back in April, arrived this past 
> Friday.  (Happy dance!!)  The photo was taken today during my first grocery 
> run with the bike.  The approximately 11-mile round trip is my longest ride 
> to date since a 2-year disability layoff from cycling, and recent hip 
> replacements.  The low gearing covered for my still low levels of fitness 
> and aerobic capacity, as I huffed and puffed across the rolling hills of 
> Albany, NY.  If it had not been in the 90's with oppressively high 
> humidity, I could have gone further.  Aside from the thumb shifters, which 
> I am still figuring out how to use well, riding the bike is easy and fun.
>
>
> 
> I added the "requisite" Mark's Rack with a Wald medium basket and medium 
> Sackville ShopSack. The AXE Victory frame lock (recently added to the Riv 
> site) fits easily over the P65 fenders.  I like not having to fumble with a 
> u-lock.  I've stowed a cable lock in the Sackville Multisack for securing 
> the front wheel and frame to bike racks. The gum grips are by Rustine, and 
> bell by Spurcycle.  I usually ride Brooks saddles, and I have a B67S that I 
> thought I would put on the bike.  However, I'm finding the stock saddle to 
> be pretty comfortable, at least for short hops, and for now, I like not 
> having to worry about rain falling on leather.  I have a Pletscher Clem 
> rack in the wings that I will add at some point.  I'll probably also swap 
> in the nice Wellgo platform pedals from my Surly.  For now, the bike has 
> all I need.
>
> My early impression is that the bike is going to be perfect for me!
>
> Linda
>

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[RBW] Re: New Clem-L Bike Day

[LLM]

Yes, we did, Joethanks again for your help!  It's a hard color to 
describe, and difficult to capture with a camera.  Kind of a stormy 
turquoise/tealbut subject to change depending on the lighting.  I like 
it a lot.

On Sunday, August 14, 2016 at 7:29:14 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Very nice! I love the blue, which I believe we discussed after I bought my 
> blue Appaloosa. We were right! :)

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