Re: [RemEnKimi] Re: A family speaks the coptic language
noufri, did u meet dr. mona zaki and if yes..what are the outcome of the meeting? thanks, caroline On 5/3/07, Mina (pronounced meena) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am sorry When I suggested that I meet Dr.Mona Zaki that was before Bahsandy's last comment got released But since she asked first I think she deserve to go Regards --- In RemEnKimi@yahoogroups.com RemEnKimi%40yahoogroups.com, Bahsandy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear George, I understood from your message that you're going to meet Mona Zaki in two weeks. If you do not mind I'd like to join you at that meeting. If you can send me in private your contact details or location/time of the meeting I'll be more than grateful. On Sun, 29 Apr 2007 23:10:09 -0700 (PDT) George Fouad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lilian I couldn't catch this, can you please explian from sratch. I am going to meet Dr. Mona after 2 weeks or so, so please tell me the story from the begining and any questions for her. Dear group members, appreciate your patience because I really not aware of the whole subject, who speaks what, i hope if the group has a reference of current Coptic-speakers families, inside/outside Egypt Rgrds --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My understanding from the written article is that she speaks a dialectic that differs from the Boharic, so the assumption that they were taught the Greeco personification. An institute like Ethnologies will never report such an incident particulary they are aware of the families you mentioned in your response and they do not consider them authentic speakers of the Coptic language. The idea that her dialect differs from the Greeco pronunciation according to the article separates her from the group that you mentioned. I believe you are confused about her and the group that originates from the El3erian family. Lilian Nawar __ + C o p t i c M a i l . c o m + Free 300Mb - webmail POP3 accounts Serving Copts Worldwide
Re: [RemEnKimi] Re: A family speaks the coptic language
What we are trying to know, if she has received her language in a continuous flow from her ancestors and if she plans to record her pronunciation of the language for preservation purposes. We must not neglect this opportunity if she was an authentic speaker of the language. Lilian Nawar ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Re: [RemEnKimi] Re: A family speaks the coptic language
Dear All I know this lady personally, Dr. Mona Zaki is a Dr. in the AUC (American Unversity in Cairo), she is the grandchild of Ekladios Bek Labib who made the Coptic/Arabic dictionary. As she told me recently, she raised in a Coptic-speaking family Rgrds [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: here is the link to the story.It is shameful that a lot of foreign people believed that the Egyptian language must still be alive while the copts do no think except in a very negative way. http://www.dailystaregypt.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=106# languageâs last survivors By Joseph Mayton First Published: December 10, 2005 Coptic is a combination of the ancient Egyptian languages Demotic, Hieroglyphic and Hieratic. CAIRO: Considered an extinct language, the Coptic language is believed to exist only in the liturgical language of the Coptic Church in Egypt. The ancient language that lost in prominence thanks largely to the Arab incursion into Egypt over 1300 years ago remains the spoken language of the church and only two families in Egypt. Coptic is a combination of the ancient Egyptian languages Demotic, Hieroglyphic and Hieratic, and was the language used by the Ptolemaic rulers of Egypt following the spread of Greek culture throughout much of the Near East. In essence, it is the language of the ancient Egyptians themselves. Mona Zaki is one of only a handful of people that continue to use the language in everyday conversation. She speaks a colloquial form of Coptic with her parents and a few relatives that dates back 2,000 years. âIn many ways it helps strengthen my faith,â Zaki said. âIt has really helped when I go to church because they still use a form of Coptic for many services.â Her dialect, however, differs slightly from the standard Coptic that is used for study and church services. She does not speak Coptic with her children. âI felt that Coptic was a worthless language to have my children speak, therefore I did not do so when they were young,â said Zaki. Coptic is the language of the first Christian church in history, and when the members of the two families that speak the colloquial form of Coptic die, it will be the first language of the early Christian churches to become extinct. Among those early languages, Aramaic was thought to be extinct until recent history proved otherwise. The language is still spoken in parts of southern Turkey and northwest Syria. Zaki feels it would be a great loss to Coptic Christianity and the world if the Coptic language is totally lost. âI hope that the world will come to realize the importance of Coptic in Christian doctrine,â Zaki said. âEgypt is the first home for a Christian church and that makes Coptic truly the first language of Christianity in a sense.â âIt is sad to think that the language will truly be dead in the next 100 years. They are already classifying Coptic as a dead language in most encyclopedias,â Zaki said. Neither parents used Coptic with their children. This is similar to the historical decline of the Coptic language. With the Arab conquest, Arabic began to be the language spoken in everyday life. After a period of religious turmoil in Egypt, Coptic leaders decided to use Arabic as their main means of conversation in order to show the Arab rulers that they were not conspirators of the European Crusaders. It is a sad fact that the language will soon go the way of Latin. Copt itself means Egypt. The word Egypt comes from the Greek aiguptios and the Arabic qupt â both of those words were derived from the Coptic language that was spoken when each community ascended upon Egypt. Coptic is the closest descendant to the spoken language of the ancient Egyptians. Combining the Greek alphabet with Demotic, Coptic is a unique conglomeration of languages. Despite this fact, Coptic has no official status in Egypt. The form spoken in church services differs from Zakiâs. Coptic is a combination of the ancient Egyptian languages Demotic, Hieratic and Hieroglyphic. It was the latest evolution of the Egyptian language. âMy parents passed the language down to me like their parents did before them. Unfortunately for Copts throughout Egypt, this process was broken over the years,â she said. âI guess I have continued the destruction of the language in many ways by me not passing it along to my children âMy parents felt it was an important part of our heritage and spoke to me in Coptic since I can remember,â Zaki revealed. âWhy I didnât pass on the language to my children, I donât know.â Zaki says that she often receives strange looks when she is overheard speaking Coptic on her mobile phone. âPeople look at me as if I am an alien and I donât belong. I guess that is what my ancestors had to deal with,although violently in some instances,â she said,which is the main reason that Zaki
Re: [RemEnKimi] Re: A family speaks the coptic language
here is the link to the story.It is shameful that a lot of foreign people believed that the Egyptian language must still be alive while the copts do no think except in a very negative way. _http://www.dailystaregypt.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=106_ (http://www.dailystaregypt.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=106) # language’s last survivors By Joseph Mayton First Published: December 10, 2005 (http://www.dailystaregypt.com/popimage.aspx?ImageID=29) IMAGECAPTIONCoptic is a combination of the ancient Egyptian languages Demotic, Hieroglyphic and ARTICLE _CAIRO_ (http://www.dailystaregypt.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=106#) : Considered an extinct language, the _Coptic_ (http://www.dailystaregypt.com/search.aspx?Keyword=Coptic;) language is believed to exist only in the liturgical language of the _Coptic_ (http://www.dailystaregypt.com/search.aspx?Keyword=Coptic;) Church in Egypt. The ancient language that lost in prominence thanks largely to the Arab incursion into Egypt over 1300 years ago remains the spoken language of the church and only two families in Egypt. _Coptic_ (http://www.dailystaregypt.com/search.aspx?Keyword=Coptic;) is a combination of the ancient Egyptian languages Demotic, Hieroglyphic and Hieratic, and was the language used by the Ptolemaic rulers of _Egypt_ (http://www.dailystaregypt.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=106#) following the spread of Greek culture throughout much of the Near East. In essence, it is the language of the ancient Egyptians themselves. Mona Zaki is one of only a handful of people that continue to use the language in everyday conversation. She speaks a colloquial form of _Coptic_ (http://www.dailystaregypt.com/search.aspx?Keyword=Coptic;) with her parents and a few relatives that dates back 2,000 years. “In many ways it helps strengthen my faith,” Zaki said. “It has really helped when I go to church because they still use a form of _Coptic_ (http://www.dailystaregypt.com/search.aspx?Keyword=Coptic;) for many services.” Her dialect, however, differs slightly from the standard _Coptic_ (http://www.dailystaregypt.com/search.aspx?Keyword=Coptic;) that is used for study and church services. She does not speak _Coptic_ (http://www.dailystaregypt.com/search.aspx?Keyword=Coptic;) with her children. “I felt that _Coptic_ (http://www.dailystaregypt.com/search.aspx?Keyword=Coptic;) was a worthless language to have my children speak, therefore I did not do so when they were young,” said Zaki. _Coptic_ (http://www.dailystaregypt.com/search.aspx?Keyword=Coptic;) is the language of the first Christian church in history, and when the members of the two families that speak the colloquial form of _Coptic_ (http://www.dailystaregypt.com/search.aspx?Keyword=Coptic;) die, it will be the first language of the early Christian churches to become extinct. Among those early languages, Aramaic was thought to be extinct until recent history proved otherwise. The language is still spoken in parts of southern Turkey and northwest Syria. Zaki feels it would be a great loss to _Coptic_ (http://www.dailystaregypt.com/search.aspx?Keyword=Coptic;) Christianity and the world if the _Coptic_ (http://www.dailystaregypt.com/search.aspx?Keyword=Coptic;) language is totally lost. “I hope that the world will come to realize the importance of _Coptic_ (http://www.dailystaregypt.com/search.aspx?Keyword=Coptic;) in Christian doctrine, ” Zaki said. “Egypt is the first home for a Christian church and that makes _Coptic_ (http://www.dailystaregypt.com/search.aspx?Keyword=Coptic;) truly the first language of _Christianity_ (http://www.dailystaregypt.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=106#) in a sense.” “It is sad to think that the language will truly be dead in the next 100 years. They are already classifying _Coptic_ (http://www.dailystaregypt.com/search.aspx?Keyword=Coptic;) as a dead language in most encyclopedias,” Zaki said. Neither parents used _Coptic_ (http://www.dailystaregypt.com/search.aspx?Keyword=Coptic;) with their children. This is similar to the historical decline of the _Coptic_ (http://www.dailystaregypt.com/search.aspx?Keyword=Coptic;) language. With the Arab conquest, Arabic began to be the language spoken in everyday life. After a period of religious turmoil in Egypt, _Coptic_ (http://www.dailystaregypt.com/search.aspx?Keyword=Coptic;) leaders decided to use Arabic as their main means of conversation in order to show the Arab rulers that they were not conspirators of the European Crusaders. It is a sad fact that the language will soon go the way of Latin. Copt itself means Egypt. The word Egypt comes from the Greek aiguptios and the Arabic qupt – both of those words were derived from the _Coptic_ (http://www.dailystaregypt.com/search.aspx?Keyword=Coptic;) language that was spoken when each community ascended upon Egypt. _Coptic_
Re: [RemEnKimi] Re: A family speaks the coptic language
I have met so many people who tell me they know someone who speaks Coptic, only to get in touch with the individual and find out they know some hymns in Coptic and can read some words in Coptic with no understanding. This is the case for Mona Zaki if she is even a real person. She may know some words in Coptic from hymns and things pronounced with the bohairic pronunciation (as opposed to modern greco-bohairic) which was still prevalent in areas even up to the 1950's, 60's and 70's until recordings and people taught under the modified version began spreading the new pronunciation throughout Egypt. There are some people who have knowledge of the original pronunciation I actually know one person directly from Assiout who knows this pronunciation who told me when he was a kid, many of the elders had psalms memorized by heart in Coptic with the original pronunciation. She is right, the pronunciation will die out when she dies but the pronunciation is different than speaking the language. Also, This is the institute ethnologue page on the coptic language (http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=cop) Coptic An extinct language of Egypt ISO 639-3: cop Population Extinct.Alternate namesNeo-EgyptianDialects Bohairic, Sahidic.Classification Afro-Asiatic, EgyptianLanguage use Liturgical language of the Coptic Church, Bohairic dialect. No first-language speakers; it probably became extinct in the 16th century.Language development NT: 17161924. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: this case is documented by the institute Ethnlogue which one of the largest institutions in the world that is concerned with languages and particularly those which are in the process of extination. That this story is reported by international news agencies and international institutions gives it great creadibility. Lilian Nawar - See what's free at AOL.com. - Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
Re: [RemEnKimi] Re: A family speaks the coptic language
Yes, this is indeed wonderful, but is it possible we can contact this lady?! Oudjai, PetiOusiri --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: this case is documented by the institute Ethnlogue which one of the largest institutions in the world that is concerned with languages and particularly those which are in the process of extination. That this story is reported by international news agencies and international institutions gives it great creadibility. Lilian Nawar ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RemEnKimi/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RemEnKimi/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [RemEnKimi] Re: A family speaks the coptic language
Lilian, don't underestimate the power of internet scams. Even the smartest people in the world fall for different types of scams. Even universities and international institutions have fallen for them. Most scams ask for money but there are many scams out there that make people spread rumors. So while it may or may not be a scam, it has all the ingredients for trouble. I would like to see if someone can physically find this person. Then we can ask her in Coptic!! George _ From: RemEnKimi@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 1:17 AM To: RemEnKimi@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [RemEnKimi] Re: A family speaks the coptic language this case is documented by the institute Ethnlogue which one of the largest institutions in the world that is concerned with languages and particularly those which are in the process of extination. That this story is reported by international news agencies and international institutions gives it great creadibility. Lilian Nawar _ See what's free at AOL.com http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF0002000503 .
Re: [RemEnKimi] Re: A family speaks the coptic language
this case is documented by the institute Ethnlogue which one of the largest institutions in the world that is concerned with languages and particularly those which are in the process of extination. That this story is reported by international news agencies and international institutions gives it great creadibility. Lilian Nawar ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Re: [RemEnKimi] Re: A family speaks the coptic language
I do not think this is real. It as an urban legend like big foot. Bahsandy Bounab [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I surfed th web, the main result on which it seems that other websites are plainly quoting is thhe Daily Star Egypt, Magazine. http://www.dailystaregypt.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=106 I hope this could be helpful. P.S. If you can reach this Mona Zaki please, send us On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 13:41:44 -0700 (PDT) Ankhiema'Djehuty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nofri Lilianna! I did not see the original posting about Mona zaki, what is the news about her and her family?! Many thanks! Oujai, PetiOusiri --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The families of Alexandria mentioned above acquired the coptic language in the 19 th century. Historians do not consider them as original speakers who got the language, the case of Mona Zaki is different. her family continued to speak the Coptic language without interruption from their ancestor making it an authentic Egyptian Language . The people who started to speak the Egyptian language did not receive it from their ancestors like Mona Zaki. Lilian Nawar ** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. __ TV dinner still cooling? Check out Tonight's Picks on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ __ + C o p t i c M a i l . c o m + Free 300Mb - webmail POP3 accounts Serving Copts Worldwide - It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar.
Re: [RemEnKimi] Re: A family speaks the coptic language
The families of Alexandria mentioned above acquired the coptic language in the 19 th century. Historians do not consider them as original speakers who got the language, the case of Mona Zaki is different. her family continued to speak the Coptic language without interruption from their ancestor making it an authentic Egyptian Language . The people who started to speak the Egyptian language did not receive it from their ancestors like Mona Zaki. Lilian Nawar ** AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.
Re: [RemEnKimi] Re: A family speaks the coptic language
I guess it is not the only family I heared the family of his holyness anba dimetrious the pishop of malaowy-his family b4 being a monk I heared too the family of ikladios habib bek was speaking coptic I read too in nakada tell 1950s the priest never pronounce anon coptic word in side the church - i red that in Fr. shenouda mahir book for the old and the new pronpunce I think we all must learn coptic in any - old or new pronouce - and use it then we can revive the coptic in greece some villages speak the old greak and others speaks the new the same in cyprus even when in arabic the sa3ida bahrowa damaita elesakandriah ... etc each has his own tune ougai This case has been reported by major news agency. I hope that we start recording this rare case before we loose our last chance. If anyone here is in a position to help in preserving the tongue of the egyptian language, please do your bes to help our language come backwith authentic pronounciation. The encouraging news is that one of the largest institutes for languagesand specially those who are in a process of extintion has confirmed this case. I am hoping that this great institute ( I do not remember its name but I saved it in favorites) will start this process. This was my dream, I always had hopes that we did not loose it totally, we hope our dreams will come true when we revive our Egyptian language. Lilian Nawar - AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. - The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
Re: [RemEnKimi] Re: A family speaks the coptic language
Some of the families who you mention learned and acquired the coptic language based on the Greek pronounciation of the langauge ( this is considered artificial because we could not figure out how real copts really pronounced it). And this is not what we are talking about. We are talking about a woman from a family that has passed the language from parents to children without interruption. This woman has the tongue of our ancestors which was lost and that is why she is reciving the attention of scholars. Scholars consider the families you mentioned not to be a true natural Egyptian because the langauge was not transmitted in a natural way from father to children but was introduced after artificial pronounciation that may not be the true Egyptian pronounciation. The language spoken by this woman seems to be a dialetec from one of the Egyptian dialetecs and and differs slightly from the Coptic of our church, however she is able to understand the liturgical prayers at church. Lilian Nawar BRBRBR**BR AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.
Re: [RemEnKimi] Re: A family speaks the coptic language
This case has been reported by major news agency. I hope that we start recording this rare case before we loose our last chance. If anyone here is in a position to help in preserving the tongue of the egyptian language, please do your bes to help our language come backwith authentic pronounciation. The encouraging news is that one of the largest institutes for languagesand specially those who are in a process of extintion has confirmed this case. I am hoping that this great institute ( I do not remember its name but I saved it in favorites) will start this process. This was my dream, I always had hopes that we did not loose it totally, we hope our dreams will come true when we revive our Egyptian language. Lilian Nawar BRBRBR**BR AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.
RE: [RemEnKimi] Re: A family speaks the coptic language
It would be wonderfull to hear some one speak Coptic naturally _ From: RemEnKimi@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: March 6, 2007 4:52 AM To: RemEnKimi@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [RemEnKimi] Re: A family speaks the coptic language Did you hear about Mona Zaki who was found to be speaking the coptic language that has been passed from one generation to the next ( this differs from the coptic families that speak coptic who they learnt in the 19th century). does anyone knows if a recording of her pronounciation is being considered or anyone has any news regarding this case??? lilian Nawar _ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/1615326657x4311227241x4298082137/aol?redir=ht tp%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaol%2Ecom AOL.com.
Re: [RemEnKimi] Re: A family speaks the coptic language
Did you hear about Mona Zaki who was found to be speaking the coptic language that has been passed from one generation to the next ( this differs from the coptic families that speak coptic who they learnt in the 19th century). does anyone knows if a recording of her pronounciation is being considered or anyone has any news regarding this case??? lilian Nawar BRBRBR**BR AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.
