Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
But, I haven't seen any DTV tuner boxes with clocks and/or scheduling capabilities to tune the correct channel prior to the recording device starting up. Has anyone else seen one of those? (Other than building a home-brew DVR with MythBox or buying a similar commercial product...) http://www.solidsignal.com/dtv2009/compare/digital/converter/boxes/ shows three models with a VCR Timer: - Echostar DTV Pal Plus - Echostar TR-40CRA - Zinwell ZAT-970A I think I read somewhere else that the Echostar modes let you select programs on the program guide to automatically set up the timer, while the Zinwell makes you manually enter the time and channel info. I haven't used any of these models personally. Nate WY0X Steve --- Steve Strobel Link Communications, Inc. 1035 Cerise Rd Billings, MT 59101-7378 (406) 245-5002 ext 102 (406) 245-4889 (fax) WWW: http://www.link-comm.com MailTo:steve.stro...@link-comm.com
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
Joe M: I can tell you right now that there seems to be far more CATV systems in the US that are far outside of the CLI standards than there are that are within the acceptable CLI standard. Our system happens to be one of the companies that tends to invest greatly in infrastructure maintenance rather than subscriber growth. Every field technician is required to maintain a weekly driveout log, always have his CLI detector on in his truck and fix any leak found immediately if detected over 5 mv/m. For every leak we find, I can point out *hundreds* in adjacent systems in rural areas operated by much larger companies. And it will likely end up with even more trouble calls to correct ingress issues - an ATSC digital carrier on top of a NTSC analog carrier makes for a much worse picture than the mixing of two NTSC signals ever did. I think locally we're probably the exception to the industry - for every 5 field technicians working installs/trouble calls/disconnects, 1 advanced tech is working on CLI/CPD... In the TimeWarner system to the east of us, that ration is more like 100:1... 73s, AJ, K6LOR On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 12:21 AM, MCH m...@nb.net wrote: That will be a loss for all RF users because where there is INGRESS, there is usually EGRESS, too (and often to the point it's not legal). Cable is supposed to be a closed system. As you said, the problem will still be present - just not dealt with as swiftly - if at all. The only ones who should be offended by the above statement are those who promote running illegal systems, so please consider that before you reply. Joe M. AJ wrote: As someone that works in the CATV industry... I'm truly looking forward to the analog-shutoff in February... No more ghosting trouble calls due to ingress... Granted, those T/Cs will be less frequent but the problem of ingress/egress will still be present... Oh well :) I can tell you that our install volume for homes that have never ever had cable has jumper 400% since the coupon program ran out of money... 73s, AJ, K6LOR Boise, Idaho market On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 9:38 PM, n...@no6b.com no6b%40no6b.commailto: n...@no6b.com no6b%40no6b.com wrote: At 1/8/2009 08:02, you wrote: Tom, I do like the suggestion about the pre-amp - I may give that a try this afternoon (if it isn't too cold in my attic!) and I'll report my results. (BTW - mine is not a hardware store variety, it's a Winegard that I spent probably $70 on about three years ago.) Preamps aren't going to help if the problem is multipath distortion. From what I've been told, the 8VSB format that our DTV uses has poor multipath tolerance. Notice how there are no DTV Watchmans available. When Feb. 17 arrives I won't be able to watch TV during my weekend walks anymore. I think DTV is like D-Star: on paper, in good broadband path conditions, digital will outperform analog. However, in many real-world scenarios digital falls apart due to its intolerance of phase distortion. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
John Sichert wrote: The best unit as far as sensitivity goes, seems to be the Channel Master CM-7000. Has this unit been tested side by side against the Magnavox TB100 and its variants? If so, how much better is the CM-7000? Kevin
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
Joe, Can you provide manufacturers and/or model numbers so I can research further on these higher-end boxes?? Also, in regard to Chuck's comment about stations staying on their UHF allocation freqs, WBBM - the CBS affiliate in Chicago - is on Ch 2 analog and Ch 12 digital for now. WBBM will revert to Ch 3 for digital once the migration is complete. The coverage maps obtained from the link provided earlier does *not* indicate this future frequency change data... you need to check the FCC for these eventualities. WBBM-TV IL CHICAGO USA (Digital) Licensee: CBS BROADCASTING INC. Service Designation: DT Digital television station Channel: 3 60 - 66 MHz Licensed File No.: BLCDT-20050623ABL Facility ID number: 9617 CDBS Application ID No.: 1069502 Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of MCH Only some are made low cost (and coupon 'eligible'). There are a lot of models that are not eligible for the coupon that have more features than the basic models - such as 1080p support. I have not seen any with any scheduling features, either, however. Joe M. From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Chuck Kelsey Almost all of the stations will be UHF in my area when all is said and done. Check your region on this map to be sure. It shows what channel the stations will use after cutover. http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/ Chuck
[Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues- You can stop the thread now
Insider info- Just got done talking with someone with some intresting inside info... The certainty that the DTV cutoff date is HIGH (I would put your money on it). And, I hear the word on the street is they are going to push it back 3 years Why, you ask? Because not enough people have converter boxes...No Because they ran out of money for people to buy them.No Because of the high level of confusion out there..No Use common sense again. When they turn off the analogs Spectrum goes up to auction. Given the current state of the economy, what they would get for that 10 year licence would only be a fraction of what they projected and based the numbers on. Top that off with no one is likely to LEND the money to Motorola, Google, or whoever wants to buy it. 3 years is what they are hoping will be enough time to get the economy back to where they will get what they thought for the spectrum AND have someone with the money to pay for it. All about the money. Tom W9SRV
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
This page might be interesting: Consumer Reports side-by-side ratings of DTV converter boxes http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/electronics-computers/tvs-services/digital-tv-converter/ratings/dtv-converter-boxes-ratings.htm Consumer Reports Recommendations and Notes: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/electronics-computers/tvs-services/digital-tv-converter/recommendations-and-notes/digital-tv-converter-boxes-recommendations-and-notes.htm Mike At 07:47 AM 01/09/09, you wrote: John Sichert wrote: The best unit as far as sensitivity goes, seems to be the Channel Master CM-7000. Has this unit been tested side by side against the Magnavox TB100 and its variants? If so, how much better is the CM-7000? Kevin
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
It shows you where today's consumer is...RF sensitivity and immunity from overload aren't even footnotes. - Original Message - From: Mike Morris WA6ILQ To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 1:08 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues This page might be interesting: Consumer Reports side-by-side ratings of DTV converter boxes http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/electronics-computers/tvs-services/digital-tv-converter/ratings/dtv-converter-boxes-ratings.htm .
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
On Thu, 8 Jan 2009, Paul Plack wrote: The coupon site makes it clear that the coupons will come by standard mail, not first class. The postal service calls this Presort Standard. The more common dexriptor is junk mail. They're paying a reduced postal rate which frees the US Postal Service from the responsibility to forward. It's a coupon from the government which the government refuses to deliver using it's own methods. Sounds like a congressman needs an earful. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR k...@catonic.us But remember, with no superpowers comes no responsibility. --rly
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues- You can stop the thread now
The certainty of pushing it back is high? Your post is a bit contradictory. Unless Congress mandates that broadcasters keep both analog and digital active, my money is going to be on analogs shutting down voluntarily as a cost saving measure. It costs a lot of money to keep a full power TV transmitter running. They can auction whenever they want. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: TGundo 2003 tgundo2...@yahoo.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 2:49 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues- You can stop the thread now Insider info- Just got done talking with someone with some intresting inside info... The certainty that the DTV cutoff date is HIGH (I would put your money on it). And, I hear the word on the street is they are going to push it back 3 years
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues- You can stop the thread now
My statement was mis-worded a bit. I apologize for that Chuck, was busy at the office...rush rush type. Didn't proof read that one well. I agree it will cost a lot to keep two on the air and they will not be happy about it... But who will want the bad PR of shutting down analog first and not caring about the lower class who cannot afford new tv's or converter boxes??? You know the press local politicians would have a field day with that. Don't get me wrong, I'm still all for shutting down the analogs. Let's turn the page. If I had to guess, If it came down to it I could see Fox shutting it down first. And don't put it past Congress to mandate they keep both on the air. I'm here in Illinois have yet to be suprised what Government will do (Look at our Governer... Though it is fun to watch, you couldn't make this stuff up. Sad, But fun.) Tom W9SRV --- On Fri, 1/9/09, Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner.com wrote: From: Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues- You can stop the thread now To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 6:20 PM The certainty of pushing it back is high? Your post is a bit contradictory. Unless Congress mandates that broadcasters keep both analog and digital active, my money is going to be on analogs shutting down voluntarily as a cost saving measure. It costs a lot of money to keep a full power TV transmitter running. They can auction whenever they want. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: TGundo 2003 tgundo2...@yahoo.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 2:49 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues- You can stop the thread now Insider info- Just got done talking with someone with some intresting inside info... The certainty that the DTV cutoff date is HIGH (I would put your money on it). And, I hear the word on the street is they are going to push it back 3 years Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues- You can stop the thread now
The fines for keeping a station's analog transmitter going beyond the DTV transition date are far less than the ad revenue a station can make on that analog transmitter, reaching homes that competitor stations in the market that are digital-only can't deliver to because Joe Public procrastinated and still has analog-only television sets... Broadcast stations live and die by advertisers - the cost of operating a station, coupled with the enormous expense of network programming, is ginormous... I can honestly say I've seen profit/loss projections using the keep analog on, pay fines later model from one of our local broadcasters... The point of holding off until the economy turns around, let alone having a lender finance the auction winner's purchase, is both rational and, unfortunately, likely. 73s, AJ, K6LOR On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 8:48 PM, TGundo 2003 tgundo2...@yahoo.com wrote: My statement was mis-worded a bit. I apologize for that Chuck, was busy at the office...rush rush type. Didn't proof read that one well. I agree it will cost a lot to keep two on the air and they will not be happy about it... But who will want the bad PR of shutting down analog first and not caring about the lower class who cannot afford new tv's or converter boxes??? You know the press local politicians would have a field day with that. Don't get me wrong, I'm still all for shutting down the analogs. Let's turn the page. If I had to guess, If it came down to it I could see Fox shutting it down first. And don't put it past Congress to mandate they keep both on the air. I'm here in Illinois have yet to be suprised what Government will do (Look at our Governer... Though it is fun to watch, you couldn't make this stuff up. Sad, But fun.) Tom W9SRV --- On Fri, 1/9/09, Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner.comwb2edv%40roadrunner.com wrote: From: Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner.com wb2edv%40roadrunner.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues- You can stop the thread now To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 6:20 PM The certainty of pushing it back is high? Your post is a bit contradictory. Unless Congress mandates that broadcasters keep both analog and digital active, my money is going to be on analogs shutting down voluntarily as a cost saving measure. It costs a lot of money to keep a full power TV transmitter running. They can auction whenever they want. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: TGundo 2003 tgundo2...@yahoo.com tgundo2003%40yahoo.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 2:49 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues- You can stop the thread now Insider info- Just got done talking with someone with some intresting inside info... The certainty that the DTV cutoff date is HIGH (I would put your money on it). And, I hear the word on the street is they are going to push it back 3 years Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
Having issues converting over to digital TV. My father volunteered my services to a few of his friends, all serious seniors, Detroit market, As an elecronic wizard (my dad's words) I should be able to make anything with wires work well. Most converter boxes I tried took forever to scan, channels missing, analog TV worked great. Most of the seniors already had their free box, obtained with the converter box coupon. Only boxes I have found so far that seem to work very well are the DigitalStream Zenith pass thru boxes, scan quickly, best picture on rabbit ears. Cost more, but worth the price. Below is a message from another user group, also detailing the frustration in switching over to digital. CJD --- In l...@yahoogroups.com, BB beazer...@... wrote: I went out to the home of an elderly couple having problem hooking up their converter boxes. When I arrived, the man had set up the boxes correctly. His problem - he was missing half of the stations he had before! I ran the scan about 10 times. Each time it found different stations. But very few of the UHF channels from Phx. According to www.antennaweb.org - he should be able to get them all - plus some of the Tucson stations. He's getting the Tucson ones that are 70 miles away, but not the Phoenix ones that are 30 miles away. He's using an indoor set top antenna, the kind with the built in amplifier. We tried different settings without much change. Weather conditions at the time - rain. I've noticed at my house when it rains, some channels have severe pixelation. With the converter turned off, he gets all the Phoenix stations analog signals just fine on that indoor antenna. But going through the converter, he's missing a few of the incidental ones...ABC, UPN...ION. Needless to say, he isn't too happy. It looks like unless we can come up with a better option - he needs to call DISH. If Congress wants to talk to an average consumer about what they think of digital television - he'd give them an earful! Any ideas? Bea Lueck
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
I've got a different problem - 1) the folks that had this mobile home before me burned this address as far as the coupon database is concerned (I can't get coupons at this address). 2) They won't send them to a PO box. 3) The post office forwards my old address, but I can't use it - the envelopes have a DO NOT FORWARD stamp on them. 4) I can't use my work address, as the address database knows that it's a business. 5) All of my friends are getting boxes using their addresses - they want the extra box for hacking purposes (nobody has a spare coupon). 6) According to the NAB SmartBrief newsletter for January 6, 2009 the coupon folks have run out of DTV coupons and have started a waiting list. As of Sunday, the U.S. government had run out of the $40 coupons that can be used to buy converter boxes for the DTV transition. A huge spike in requests in December -- when the government anticipated about 4 million requests but received 7.2 million -- now means new coupon-seekers have to be put on a waiting list. According to a report in National Journal's CongressDaily, the coupon shortfall stems from NTIA's reliance on estimates from the Consumer Electronics Association and Nielsen Media Research, as opposed to the higher estimate made by NAB. For info on the National Association of Broadcasters SmartBrief see http://www.smartbrief.com/nab Anybody else have suggestions / recommendations / warnings about what brand of box to buy or to avoid ? Mike WA6ILQ At 12:21 PM 01/05/09, you wrote: Having issues converting over to digital TV. My father volunteered my services to a few of his friends, all serious seniors, Detroit market, As an elecronic wizard (my dad's words) I should be able to make anything with wires work well. Most converter boxes I tried took forever to scan, channels missing, analog TV worked great. Most of the seniors already had their free box, obtained with the converter box coupon. Only boxes I have found so far that seem to work very well are the DigitalStream Zenith pass thru boxes, scan quickly, best picture on rabbit ears. Cost more, but worth the price. Below is a message from another user group, also detailing the frustration in switching over to digital. CJD --- In mailto:lptv%40yahoogroups.coml...@yahoogroups.com, BB beazer...@... wrote: I went out to the home of an elderly couple having problem hooking up their converter boxes. When I arrived, the man had set up the boxes correctly. His problem - he was missing half of the stations he had before! I ran the scan about 10 times. Each time it found different stations. But very few of the UHF channels from Phx. According to www.antennaweb.org - he should be able to get them all - plus some of the Tucson stations. He's getting the Tucson ones that are 70 miles away, but not the Phoenix ones that are 30 miles away. He's using an indoor set top antenna, the kind with the built in amplifier. We tried different settings without much change. Weather conditions at the time - rain. I've noticed at my house when it rains, some channels have severe pixelation. With the converter turned off, he gets all the Phoenix stations analog signals just fine on that indoor antenna. But going through the converter, he's missing a few of the incidental ones...ABC, UPN...ION. Needless to say, he isn't too happy. It looks like unless we can come up with a better option - he needs to call DISH. If Congress wants to talk to an average consumer about what they think of digital television - he'd give them an earful! Any ideas? Bea Lueck
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
On Thu, 8 Jan 2009, Mike Morris WA6ILQ wrote: 3) The post office forwards my old address, but I can't use it - the envelopes have a DO NOT FORWARD stamp on them. Call your congresscritter, or better yet -- arrange a visit to his office. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR k...@catonic.us But remember, with no superpowers comes no responsibility. --rly
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
I have the same problem here outside of the Chicago area... for reference, I'm about 60 mi SW of Chicago. I have three converters installed in my home to prepare for the transition - they are on TVs in non-critical areas, i.e., bedrooms, kids rooms, etc. I have DirecTV for the primary TV sets (basement and family room). Anyway, the picture I receive via antenna is acceptable - there is some snow, but the picture is perfectly viewable. However, the converter boxes seem to have less RX sensitivity, or something. I can only get a fraction of channels available, and sometimes more channels than other times - for example, the local NBC affiliate worked fine Tuesday night (we watched Leno) but last night there was a LOT of digital artifacts and the audio was terrible... Picture had artifacts also. For what it's worth, there is an overlay available that works with Google Earth that will graphically show you the available coverage of any TV station. For the Chicago market, I find I'm on the fringe (unfortunately, I live in a river valley, which also affects my reception) so I need to do something with my antenna. For years, I've had it in the attic with no problem, but now it looks like it's going to have to go out - either on the roof, or on the tower. I have not checked to see if the newer digital TV transmitters are operating at lower power levels than their analog counterparts, but I wonder if this could be one reason for my experiences. And of course, we're going to transition in February - not the best time of the year to be climbing towers. (Hey FCC - why not transition in June when the weather is much more conducive to tower activities? Ah-h-h, government at work... Gotta love it.) Good luck! Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of TRACOMM Having issues converting over to digital TV. My father volunteered my services to a few of his friends, all serious seniors, Detroit market, As an elecronic wizard (my dad's words) I should be able to make anything with wires work well. Most converter boxes I tried took forever to scan, channels missing, analog TV worked great. Most of the seniors already had their free box, obtained with the converter box coupon. Only boxes I have found so far that seem to work very well are the DigitalStream Zenith pass thru boxes, scan quickly, best picture on rabbit ears. Cost more, but worth the price. Below is a message from another user group, also detailing the frustration in switching over to digital. CJD --- In l...@yahoogroups.com, BB beazer...@... wrote: I went out to the home of an elderly couple having problem hooking up their converter boxes. When I arrived, the man had set up the boxes correctly. His problem - he was missing half of the stations he had before! I ran the scan about 10 times. Each time it found different stations. But very few of the UHF channels from Phx. According to www.antennaweb.org - he should be able to get them all - plus some of the Tucson stations. He's getting the Tucson ones that are 70 miles away, but not the Phoenix ones that are 30 miles away. He's using an indoor set top antenna, the kind with the built in amplifier. We tried different settings without much change. Weather conditions at the time - rain. I've noticed at my house when it rains, some channels have severe pixelation. With the converter turned off, he gets all the Phoenix stations analog signals just fine on that indoor antenna. But going through the converter, he's missing a few of the incidental ones...ABC, UPN...ION. Needless to say, he isn't too happy. It looks like unless we can come up with a better option - he needs to call DISH. If Congress wants to talk to an average consumer about what they think of digital television - he'd give them an earful! Any ideas? Bea Lueck
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
Mike, I know of a couple of people who were able to get around the address issue by adding Apartment 2 to the address, and using a different name (like a daughter, son, etc.). Now it looks like a multiple occupancy rather than a single-family home. But since the government is either out of, or running WAY behind on distributing coupons, this may be a moot point. I only have one brand here (Magnavox) and it doesn't work well, IMHO. I bought the Magnavox because it allows signal pass-through - most of the boxes for sale do NOT. Of course, that won't be an issue after February, since there will be no analog signal that you'd want to pass through anyway, but in the meantime. It was mainly so I could test, and the results I've seen are not impressive. Like I stated in an earlier message, I feel the receiver leaves a lot to be desired, sensitivity-wise. (Unless the transmitters are operating at a lower power.) The boxes seem to need a LOT of signal in order to decode properly. Mark - N9WYS From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Morris WA6ILQ I've got a different problem - 1) the folks that had this mobile home before me burned this address as far as the coupon database is concerned (I can't get coupons at this address). 2) They won't send them to a PO box. 3) The post office forwards my old address, but I can't use it - the envelopes have a DO NOT FORWARD stamp on them. 4) I can't use my work address, as the address database knows that it's a business. 5) All of my friends are getting boxes using their addresses - they want the extra box for hacking purposes (nobody has a spare coupon). 6) According to the NAB SmartBrief newsletter for January 6, 2009 the coupon folks have run out of DTV coupons and have started a waiting list. As of Sunday, the U.S. government had run out of the $40 coupons that can be used to buy converter boxes for the DTV transition. A huge spike in requests in December -- when the government anticipated about 4 million requests but received 7.2 million -- now means new coupon-seekers have to be put on a waiting list. According to a report in National Journal's CongressDaily, the coupon shortfall stems from NTIA's reliance on estimates from the Consumer Electronics Association and Nielsen Media Research, as opposed to the higher estimate made by NAB. For info on the National Association of Broadcasters SmartBrief see http://www.smartbrief.com/nab http://www.smartbrief.com/nab Anybody else have suggestions / recommendations / warnings about what brand of box to buy or to avoid ? Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
I'm using the Magnavox converter. Compared to my HDTV, I'd say that reception is the same, only that the converter changes channels a lot faster than the tuner in the TV. Actually the converter has a longer run of coax than the TV. Chuck - Original Message - From: Mark To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 9:55 AM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues Mike, I know of a couple of people who were able to get around the address issue by adding Apartment 2 to the address, and using a different name (like a daughter, son, etc.). Now it looks like a multiple occupancy rather than a single-family home. But since the government is either out of, or running WAY behind on distributing coupons, this may be a moot point. I only have one brand here (Magnavox) and it doesn't work well, IMHO. I bought the Magnavox because it allows signal pass-through - most of the boxes for sale do NOT. Of course, that won't be an issue after February, since there will be no analog signal that you'd want to pass through anyway, but in the meantime. It was mainly so I could test, and the results I've seen are not impressive. Like I stated in an earlier message, I feel the receiver leaves a lot to be desired, sensitivity-wise. (Unless the transmitters are operating at a lower power.) The boxes seem to need a LOT of signal in order to decode properly. Mark - N9WYS
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
Try this site. It's not perfect, but will give you an idea. I find cased where it says I'm well within range and I can't get the channels and some where it says I shouldn't and do. http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/ Keep in mind than a lot of stations have gone from VHF to UHF in the process. Chuck - Original Message - From: Mark n9...@ameritech.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 9:45 AM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues I have the same problem here outside of the Chicago area... for reference, I'm about 60 mi SW of Chicago. I have three converters installed in my home to prepare for the transition - they are on TVs in non-critical areas, i.e., bedrooms, kids rooms, etc. I have DirecTV for the primary TV sets (basement and family room). Anyway, the picture I receive via antenna is acceptable - there is some snow, but the picture is perfectly viewable. However, the converter boxes seem to have less RX sensitivity, or something. I can only get a fraction of channels available, and sometimes more channels than other times - for example, the local NBC affiliate worked fine Tuesday night (we watched Leno) but last night there was a LOT of digital artifacts and the audio was terrible... Picture had artifacts also. For what it's worth, there is an overlay available that works with Google Earth that will graphically show you the available coverage of any TV station. For the Chicago market, I find I'm on the fringe (unfortunately, I live in a river valley, which also affects my reception) so I need to do something with my antenna. For years, I've had it in the attic with no problem, but now it looks like it's going to have to go out - either on the roof, or on the tower. I have not checked to see if the newer digital TV transmitters are operating at lower power levels than their analog counterparts, but I wonder if this could be one reason for my experiences. And of course, we're going to transition in February - not the best time of the year to be climbing towers. (Hey FCC - why not transition in June when the weather is much more conducive to tower activities? Ah-h-h, government at work... Gotta love it.) Good luck! Mark - N9WYS
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
Mike, The Echostar PAL unit has a good electronic program guide. A friend of mine has a problem with the unit locking up sometimes. (Could just be his) The best unit as far as sensitivity goes, seems to be the Channel Master CM-7000. It also has an S-Video output that the others lack. The cheapest place I have found to get a CM-7000 is Stark Electronics. Nice people to deal with. http://www.starkelectronic.com/cm7000.htm There have been many discussions about the converter boxes at www.avsforums.com Good Luck John At 06:49 AM 1/8/2009, you wrote: I've got a different problem - 1) the folks that had this mobile home before me burned this address as far as the coupon database is concerned (I can't get coupons at this address). 2) They won't send them to a PO box. 3) The post office forwards my old address, but I can't use it - the envelopes have a DO NOT FORWARD stamp on them. 4) I can't use my work address, as the address database knows that it's a business. 5) All of my friends are getting boxes using their addresses - they want the extra box for hacking purposes (nobody has a spare coupon). 6) According to the NAB SmartBrief newsletter for January 6, 2009 the coupon folks have run out of DTV coupons and have started a waiting list. As of Sunday, the U.S. government had run out of the $40 coupons that can be used to buy converter boxes for the DTV transition. A huge spike in requests in December -- when the government anticipated about 4 million requests but received 7.2 million -- now means new coupon-seekers have to be put on a waiting list. According to a report in National Journal's CongressDaily, the coupon shortfall stems from NTIA's reliance on estimates from the Consumer Electronics Association and Nielsen Media Research, as opposed to the higher estimate made by NAB. For info on the National Association of Broadcasters SmartBrief see http://www.smartbrief.com/nab Anybody else have suggestions / recommendations / warnings about what brand of box to buy or to avoid ? Mike WA6ILQ At 12:21 PM 01/05/09, you wrote: Having issues converting over to digital TV. My father volunteered my services to a few of his friends, all serious seniors, Detroit market, As an elecronic wizard (my dad's words) I should be able to make anything with wires work well. Most converter boxes I tried took forever to scan, channels missing, analog TV worked great. Most of the seniors already had their free box, obtained with the converter box coupon. Only boxes I have found so far that seem to work very well are the DigitalStream Zenith pass thru boxes, scan quickly, best picture on rabbit ears. Cost more, but worth the price. Below is a message from another user group, also detailing the frustration in switching over to digital. CJD --- In mailto:lptv%40yahoogroups.coml...@yahoogroups.com, BB beazer...@... wrote: I went out to the home of an elderly couple having problem hooking up their converter boxes. When I arrived, the man had set up the boxes correctly. His problem - he was missing half of the stations he had before! I ran the scan about 10 times. Each time it found different stations. But very few of the UHF channels from Phx. According to www.antennaweb.org - he should be able to get them all - plus some of the Tucson stations. He's getting the Tucson ones that are 70 miles away, but not the Phoenix ones that are 30 miles away. He's using an indoor set top antenna, the kind with the built in amplifier. We tried different settings without much change. Weather conditions at the time - rain. I've noticed at my house when it rains, some channels have severe pixelation. With the converter turned off, he gets all the Phoenix stations analog signals just fine on that indoor antenna. But going through the converter, he's missing a few of the incidental ones...ABC, UPN...ION. Needless to say, he isn't too happy. It looks like unless we can come up with a better option - he needs to call DISH. If Congress wants to talk to an average consumer about what they think of digital television - he'd give them an earful! Any ideas? Bea Lueck
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
The bain of my existance the last few weeks.DTV. Several Points of order: DTV Myths, Comments, QA: I hear once a day: DTV doesn't work as good as analog. My Response (based on experience): Does not work as good is from a point of view. The fact is DTV is more effiecnt, the stations are typically running a fraction of the output power and achieving the same footprint of coverage. It takes far less signal to noise to pull out a clear, high quality picture than it does with analog. Can you make out an analog station with a ton of snow, lines, sparkles, etc when you might not pull in a DTV Station? Sure! Do you enjoy watching a crappy picture? Do you like to listen to the guy on his flea power portable noisy into the repeater or the guy on a good mobile who is full quieting? I hear once a day: The antenna in my attic/ my old antenna system does not get the DTV stations that I get in analog. My Response: Well, this is a technical group with a high level of RF knowledge. How well does your 440 antenna (or any band) work in the attic compared to on your roof or tower? There is some implied responsibility on the part of the end user to ensure that their equipment is optimized for the best performance. That being said, I have many many clients with antennas in the attic that work just fine. What I do find to be the typical problem is that most people with antennas in their attics have an amplifier installed to make up for being in the attic. I'm sorry to say that the $15-20 amplifier you pick up at the hardware store sucks, to prove that just bench test it on your specturm analyzer look at a DTV signal. They typically distort the waveform badly and that is more common a problem why you can't tune the DTV station. I have pulled those from an antenna system that were receiving analog but not digital. Once out of the system, while the analog was virtually unwatchable now (which the amp had boosted enough to tolerate), the DTV signal suddenly came thru with flying colors! Would you put a crappy preamp on your repeater receiver? I hear once a day: My converter box does not seem as sensitive as my new DTV set in the other room. My Response: Let's use some common sense here. The government mandated that the LOWEST COST possible converter boxes be made available for people to convert their OLD analog TV's. The bottom line: You get what you pay for. Was not that long ago a wise jedi master here on RB posted findings on PL circuits in radios with his test equipment and found that the cheaper radios did a poorer job. Your $50 converter box is not going to have as good of DTV tuner in it as your new $5000 Sony HDTV. This difference existed in analog tuners as well. Nuff said. *A side note: We have found that there are huge differences in converter boxes. For what it is worth the Zenith model seems to be one of the best, in case your shopping. I would stay away from brands you have never heard of at the big box stores. I hear every day now: The government screwed up is running out of money for the program. My Response: We knew 3 years ago they only had so much money set aside for this. What did everyone think would happen? There are a ton of unclaimed cards out there right now, and as they expire they will put that money back in the pot. However, it was always first come, first serve, and the government should not be there forever to make sure you can still use your dads 40 year RCA TV. And, it's $50-70 for a typical converter box. Holy cow. If the $40 coupon makes the difference for you of eating or not that week, I think TV should be less of a priority for you. (Sorry for the social commentary) I hear every day now (This one is yours Mark;) ): Leave it to the government to make the change in Feb instead of June. My response: If I remember correctly the orignal cutoff date was in a June, but the lawyers fought fought and got extension after extension. DTV has been around for 3-4 years now in most markets, and we have known this date was coming for roughly the same time. It's like high school: we knew for 2 weeks our paper was due, but still blamed the teacher when we were really tired on the due date because we stayed up really late the night before doing the paper. ;) Finally- I cannot speak for all the markets out there, but here in Chicago the DTV stations for the most part are at their full licensed power now, only changes left to come are some channel re-assignments when the switch happens. So go to work on your antenna that has been up for 30 years and get it in shape again! Tom W9SRV
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
Tom, Did we all hit a nerve?? Hehehehe Regarding the February changeover date - the FCC could still have set another date in June 2009 (or April for that matter - anytime when the weather in 2/3 of the country was a bit more tolerable) but *chose* not to do so. I deal with government on a daily basis in my primary job, so I know that a LOT of times there is no rhyme or reason as to what dates are set for anything - other than there was a blank spot on a calendar somewhere... Also, DTV may have been around for 2 -3 years, but until late last year, I was unable to find converter boxes that I wanted (with pass-through) locally - so I ended up going online to get the ones I own. Availability also needs to be figured into the equation - and I'll accept *some* responsibility for not beginning to prepare early enough - but the supply side also needs to be considered. I understand that you're in the business, and as you stated - it has been the Bain of your existence lately. Maybe a little less caffeine, or a little more Jack Daniels will help you cope. (All in jest!!) I do like the suggestion about the pre-amp - I may give that a try this afternoon (if it isn't too cold in my attic!) and I'll report my results. (BTW - mine is not a hardware store variety, it's a Winegard that I spent probably $70 on about three years ago.) Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of TGundo 2003 The bain of my existance the last few weeks.DTV. Several Points of order: DTV Myths, Comments, QA: I hear once a day: DTV doesn't work as good as analog. My Response (based on experience): Does not work as good is from a point of view. The fact is DTV is more effiecnt, the stations are typically running a fraction of the output power and achieving the same footprint of coverage. It takes far less signal to noise to pull out a clear, high quality picture than it does with analog. Can you make out an analog station with a ton of snow, lines, sparkles, etc when you might not pull in a DTV Station? Sure! Do you enjoy watching a crappy picture? Do you like to listen to the guy on his flea power portable noisy into the repeater or the guy on a good mobile who is full quieting? I hear once a day: The antenna in my attic/ my old antenna system does not get the DTV stations that I get in analog. My Response: Well, this is a technical group with a high level of RF knowledge. How well does your 440 antenna (or any band) work in the attic compared to on your roof or tower? There is some implied responsibility on the part of the end user to ensure that their equipment is optimized for the best performance. That being said, I have many many clients with antennas in the attic that work just fine. What I do find to be the typical problem is that most people with antennas in their attics have an amplifier installed to make up for being in the attic. I'm sorry to say that the $15-20 amplifier you pick up at the hardware store sucks, to prove that just bench test it on your specturm analyzer look at a DTV signal. They typically distort the waveform badly and that is more common a problem why you can't tune the DTV station. I have pulled those from an antenna system that were receiving analog but not digital. Once out of the system, while the analog was virtually unwatchable now (which the amp had boosted enough to tolerate), the DTV signal suddenly came thru with flying colors! Would you put a crappy preamp on your repeater receiver? I hear once a day: My converter box does not seem as sensitive as my new DTV set in the other room. My Response: Let's use some common sense here. The government mandated that the LOWEST COST possible converter boxes be made available for people to convert their OLD analog TV's. The bottom line: You get what you pay for. Was not that long ago a wise jedi master here on RB posted findings on PL circuits in radios with his test equipment and found that the cheaper radios did a poorer job. Your $50 converter box is not going to have as good of DTV tuner in it as your new $5000 Sony HDTV. This difference existed in analog tuners as well. Nuff said. *A side note: We have found that there are huge differences in converter boxes. For what it is worth the Zenith model seems to be one of the best, in case your shopping. I would stay away from brands you have never heard of at the big box stores. I hear every day now: The government screwed up is running out of money for the program. My Response: We knew 3 years ago they only had so much money set aside for this. What did everyone think would happen? There are a ton of unclaimed cards out there right now, and as they expire they will put that money back in the pot. However, it was always first come, first serve, and the government should not be there forever to make sure you can still use your dads 40 year RCA TV. And, it's $50-70 for a typical converter box. Holy
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
The preamplifier I have improves the DTV reception despite the fact that it's a Radio Shack model (I'd had it kicking around for several years, new in the package). For what it's worth, every time the picture or sound breaks up, my wife says I hate this new TV. She could watch an analog picture way down in the snow and be perfectly happy. I hate a snowy picture, but must admit the digital artifacts are annoying too. Chuck - Original Message - From: Mark n9...@ameritech.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 11:02 AM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues I do like the suggestion about the pre-amp - I may give that a try this afternoon (if it isn't too cold in my attic!) and I'll report my results. (BTW - mine is not a hardware store variety, it's a Winegard that I spent probably $70 on about three years ago.)
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
My application for a converter box coupon was rejected saying that there were no more coupons available. 73 - Jim W5ZIT --- On Mon, 1/5/09, TRACOMM trac...@yahoo.com wrote: From: TRACOMM trac...@yahoo.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, January 5, 2009, 2:21 PM Having issues converting over to digital TV. My father volunteered my services to a few of his friends, all serious seniors, Detroit market, As an elecronic wizard (my dad's words) I should be able to make anything with wires work well. Most converter boxes I tried took forever to scan, channels missing, analog TV worked great. Most of the seniors already had their free box, obtained with the converter box coupon. Only boxes I have found so far that seem to work very well are the DigitalStream Zenith pass thru boxes, scan quickly, best picture on rabbit ears. Cost more, but worth the price. Below is a message from another user group, also detailing the frustration in switching over to digital. CJD --- In l...@yahoogroups. com, BB beazer...@. .. wrote: I went out to the home of an elderly couple having problem hooking up their converter boxes. When I arrived, the man had set up the boxes correctly. His problem - he was missing half of the stations he had before! I ran the scan about 10 times. Each time it found different stations. But very few of the UHF channels from Phx. According to www.antennaweb. org - he should be able to get them all - plus some of the Tucson stations. He's getting the Tucson ones that are 70 miles away, but not the Phoenix ones that are 30 miles away. He's using an indoor set top antenna, the kind with the built in amplifier. We tried different settings without much change. Weather conditions at the time - rain. I've noticed at my house when it rains, some channels have severe pixelation. With the converter turned off, he gets all the Phoenix stations analog signals just fine on that indoor antenna. But going through the converter, he's missing a few of the incidental ones...ABC, UPN...ION. Needless to say, he isn't too happy. It looks like unless we can come up with a better option - he needs to call DISH. If Congress wants to talk to an average consumer about what they think of digital television - he'd give them an earful! Any ideas? Bea Lueck
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
I TRY not to respond to OT posts, but boy am I fed up with DTV! I could get all the high power analog stations in my market snow-free with a small rooftop antenna. No go with DTV so I've been incrementally upgrading. I now have a very large antenna residing at 70 feet on one of my towers. Now I can get SOME of the digital signals. I'm going to try a mast mounted amplifier as soon as I'm able to climb again (currently recovering from surgery). I've already tried several TVs with ATSC tuners and converter boxes. There is some variation, but none of them can get all the digital signals that theoretically should be available to me. According to the FCC and other resources, I should be getting all of the high power DTV stations. I have talked to engineers at two of the stations I'm having trouble getting. They both said more than likely I'm getting a too high bit error rate due to signal multipath with all the hills around here. They said it is proving to be an issue for some viewers, and suggested I try VERY large directional antennas and experiment with antenna bearings, but admitted I'd probably need several antennas, one for each DTV station I'm not yet getting. Aarrgh! But of course many DTV's and converter boxes can only add channels by auto search; there's no provision for adding channels manually. That pretty much rules out switching between multiple antennas, unless I got the timing just right while the TV was performing its channel search. I could combine several antennas, but then I'd probably have the high BER due to signal reflections again. Grrr! Oh, and some of the stations that were/are broadcasting analog on VHF now have temporary UHF DTV assignments (higher power than their analog VHF). Next month they will be switching digital broadcasts to their old VHF channel assignments. This will probably change what I'm able to get and not get yet again... this time in the middle of a Maine winter. Grrr! Thanks FCC, or whoever is to blame for this bit of idiocy. I will admit when it works, picture and sound quality is fantastic with DTV. Being able to get free OTA HDTV is nice too. Paul
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
Our company has a Radio show on Sundays now On WLS AM- which draws in a considerable audience, and I get forwarded all the OTA reception problems. Guess I don't like repeating myself. Sorry. What gets me riled up is all the mis-information. I am going to a potiential client this afternoon, a 6-building condo complex. People are not getting the DTV stations on the old in-house antenna system. Another company told these nice folks it was because they didn't have Digital capable amplifier in the system. Lots of stuff like that out there. Here is what I know- I have never been shut out of getting a DTV station we should be recieving. When there was a problem of any type one trip to the site with a spectrum analyzer let me determine the problem and fix it. Really easy to fix when you can see it. Most fixes are basic antenna system PROBLEMS. A handful were due to multipath, but we fixed them too. I'm sorry to hear if others are having such problems. If your on the fringe your on the fringe. Again, were all RF guys here so there should be some understanding about that. Mark- we all know about the RF black hole your near (some call it Joliet). On the fringe in a river valley. Tough nut to crack. On the flip side, I'm 45 miles from the city at home. My neighbor has a modest TV antenna on a 15 ft tower, pointed right into an evergreen tree. He does not get the analog stations well at all, but he pulls in all the digitals 100%. And your right about the equipment availibility not coming until late in the process, there were a bunch of people who got cards before the equipment was available and the cards expired. oops! In response to other posts since: Yes- break up due to momentary signal loss is probably more annoying than snow on analog. Guess there is a trade off for everything. I will live with occasional break-ups (which should be occasional) in trade for the better DTV picture. Cassette Tapes didn't skip either, I'll take a CD thank you. Not getting a Card- First I heard of a flat out rejection. The Govt. told us agents that they were going to put people on a waiting list. One more thing- sometimes break-ups or interruptions in broadcasts are on the TV stations end, in their equipment or their downlinks. Harder to tell these days where the problem lies with Digital. One overlooked item- I get many comments from clients about DTV on the fact that there is MORE TO WATCH! More efficent use of specturm again, More channels to watch in the same space. This is a good thing. Here in Chicago (as it probably is other places) I can change to two or three live weather radars on TV on the secondary channels. I'll take that and deal with the occasional break-ups. Finally, Free is the word. You get what you pay for. Then again- you pay for satellite cable can have break-up problems too in the digital world.;) My guess is that over time the tuners will get better, have better error correction (Less drop out issues) and we will all in a short order of time wonder why we ever liked analog.(Except in 2-way radio- down with digital! I'll keep my micor!) hi Hi;) I will stop posting on this topic now as the moderaterors are probably tired of it! Tom W9SRV PS Mark- had the Jack in my highly caffinated Coke last night! It does help. --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Mark n9...@ameritech.net wrote: From: Mark n9...@ameritech.net Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 10:02 AM Tom, Did we all hit a nerve?? Hehehehe Regarding the February changeover date - the FCC could still have set another date in June 2009 (or April for that matter - anytime when the weather in 2/3 of the country was a bit more tolerable) but *chose* not to do so. I deal with government on a daily basis in my primary job, so I know that a LOT of times there is no rhyme or reason as to what dates are set for anything - other than there was a blank spot on a calendar somewhere... Also, DTV may have been around for 2 -3 years, but until late last year, I was unable to find converter boxes that I wanted (with pass-through) locally - so I ended up going online to get the ones I own. Availability also needs to be figured into the equation - and I'll accept *some* responsibility for not beginning to prepare early enough - but the supply side also needs to be considered. I understand that you're in the business, and as you stated - it has been the Bain of your existence lately. Maybe a little less caffeine, or a little more Jack Daniels will help you cope. (All in jest!!) I do like the suggestion about the pre-amp - I may give that a try this afternoon (if it isn't too cold in my attic!) and I'll report my results. (BTW - mine is not a hardware store variety, it's a Winegard that I spent probably $70 on about three years ago.) Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
My experience was exactly the opposite, Mark I'm about 25 miles due west of the Sears Tower, and although I have DirecTV on the main TV, I have a tuner card in the PC that I often use to record OTA shows while the satellite DVR is busy with other programs. With analog, channel 2 was very snowy, 5 was acceptable, 7, 9, 11 and all the UHF stations were fine. With the converter box on the same roof-mounted antenna, everything is beautiful, plus I picked up about 7 or 8 stations I didn't get at all with analog. I just have one of the Apex units from Best Buy... George, KA3HSW / WQGJ413 From: Mark n9...@ameritech.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 8, 2009 8:45:16 AM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues I have the same problem here outside of the Chicago area... for reference, I'm about 60 mi SW of Chicago. I have three converters installed in my home to prepare for the transition - they are on TVs in non-critical areas, i.e., bedrooms, kids rooms, etc. I have DirecTV for the primary TV sets (basement and family room). Anyway, the picture I receive via antenna is acceptable - there is some snow, but the picture is perfectly viewable. However, the converter boxes seem to have less RX sensitivity, or something. I can only get a fraction of channels available, and sometimes more channels than other times - for example, the local NBC affiliate worked fine Tuesday night (we watched Leno) but last night there was a LOT of digital artifacts and the audio was terrible... Picture had artifacts also. For what it's worth, there is an overlay available that works with Google Earth that will graphically show you the available coverage of any TV station. For the Chicago market, I find I'm on the fringe (unfortunately, I live in a river valley, which also affects my reception) so I need to do something with my antenna. For years, I've had it in the attic with no problem, but now it looks like it's going to have to go out - either on the roof, or on the tower. I have not checked to see if the newer digital TV transmitters are operating at lower power levels than their analog counterparts, but I wonder if this could be one reason for my experiences. And of course, we're going to transition in February - not the best time of the year to be climbing towers. (Hey FCC - why not transition in June when the weather is much more conducive to tower activities? Ah-h-h, government at work... Gotta love it.) Good luck! Mark - N9WYS
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
I have the Zenith box, paid a little more for it, and it works pretty well here in Salt Lake City. I'm surrounded by high mountaintop transmitter sites, so I didn't need much of an antenna. I just stuck a 12 piece of wire in the center of the coax jack on my two boxes, and I get all the locals. When I have had dropouts, I've wondered if it might not be out-of-band overload from nearby transmitters. It has that pattern...the signal indicator I can call up on-screen will be strong, but suddenly drop. I'll bet these things have no front ends at all. Apartment buildings are going to create Part 15 Wars that may never be won. My sister-in-law has barely-watchable analog TV in her apartment now, but it's not for lack of signal strength. There's a constant herringbone on the screen on some channels, from some device somewhere. I'm taking one of my converters over to try there this weekend before she orders cable. Even in my single-family home, I get breakup on my digital reception anytime I use the microwave oven. I'm not going to mess with antennas until summer, when the channel reassignments are over and I know what frequencies I'm cutting for. BTW, I ordered coupons at www.dtv2009.gov for my in-laws Saturday, January 3rd, and all indications are we're getting them. Must have been the last day. 73, Paul, AE4KR - Original Message - From: TRACOMM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 1:21 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues Only boxes I have found so far that seem to work very well are the DigitalStream Zenith pass thru boxes, scan quickly, best picture on rabbit ears. Cost more, but worth the price... Recent Activity a.. 18New Members Visit Your Group Biz Resources Y! Small Business Articles, tools, forms, and more. Yahoo! Groups Everyday Wellness Zone Check out featured healthy living groups. Yahoo! Groups Dogs Owners Group Join Do More For Dogs pet community .
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
Paul N1BUG wrote: I TRY not to respond to OT posts, but boy am I fed up with DTV! I could get all the high power analog stations in my market snow-free with a small rooftop antenna. No go with DTV so I've been incrementally upgrading. I now have a very large antenna residing at 70 feet on one of my towers. For those in covenant-controlled areas, you can now just slap up a giant log-periodic on a tower with a nice beefy rotor for VHF+ work, and call it your new HDTV antenna when someone asks what you're doing! (GRIN!) :-) Nate WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
At 09:30 AM 01/08/09, you wrote: Hello Mike, Are you saying your address shows as invalid?. I ordered some for my sister (on line) and it allowed you to enter an actual street address and then it allowed shipping to a different address like her P.O. Box. My old adders is forwarded by the postal office. I had coupons sent there, but I never got them and according to the post office folks they can't forward them. Of course there may be a different reason that I didn't get them, and the PO guy is mistaken. The DTV web site back in August would not take a PO box. My new address was used by the former owners and the system won't send a second set of coupons to a different name. However if your address is non existent you might ask a friend to use theirs if they haven't ordered any Like I said, all of my friends are getting boxes using their addresses - they want the extra box for hacking purposes (nobody has a spare coupon). and have them sent to your P. O. Box. As long as you have a physical street address for your location it should work. At least it did here. Adding a extra letter (like changing apartment 12 to 12A results in The address you provided could not be found. The unit, suite, or apartment number for the address you provided is missing or invalid. Please supply a valid unit, suite, or apartment number and submit your application again. Physical locations have to be in their data base, and it's pretty accurate. However an email I received gave me a couple of additional options that I didn't know were available. I'm still looking for an unused address - someone local who not going to apply for any coupons - maybe he has purchased replacement TVs, or uses cable, etc.. Larry - N7FM Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
Here's something interesting I noticed. If the consumer (we're not people you know, we're consumers now...) had any type of Standard Def recording device that had its own tuner... It could ostensibly be set permanently to channel 3 (or whatever the RF output of the DTV converter box is) to handle making recordings... But, I haven't seen any DTV tuner boxes with clocks and/or scheduling capabilities to tune the correct channel prior to the recording device starting up. Has anyone else seen one of those? (Other than building a home-brew DVR with MythBox or buying a similar commercial product...) Nate WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
There is a Sony DVD Recorder/VCR with a built in ATSC tuner that can record DTV onto either DVD or VCR, but that model has been discontinued and what's in stock at Sony it whats left. I have not seen any DTV converters that can do what you ask for. Remember- Made to be the least cost to the publicThat would have added $5 Tom W9SRV --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Nate Duehr n...@natetech.com wrote: From: Nate Duehr n...@natetech.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 4:07 PM Here's something interesting I noticed. If the consumer (we're not people you know, we're consumers now...) had any type of Standard Def recording device that had its own tuner... It could ostensibly be set permanently to channel 3 (or whatever the RF output of the DTV converter box is) to handle making recordings... But, I haven't seen any DTV tuner boxes with clocks and/or scheduling capabilities to tune the correct channel prior to the recording device starting up. Has anyone else seen one of those? (Other than building a home-brew DVR with MythBox or buying a similar commercial product...) Nate WY0X Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
OK I promised that I'd reply back if I tried removal of the preamplifier. Well, I did and it resulted in degraded reception. Before removing the pre-amp, I could receive DTV channels 5 (with artifacts), 7, 9, 11, 32, 35, 38, 44, and 50. After removal, I received only 9, 32, and 50. So I guess the pre-amp is not introducing any noise into the system affecting the DTV tuner. I get all the analog channels: 2, 5, 7, 9, 11, 20, 23, 26, 32, 35, 38, 44, 50, 56, 60, 62, and 66... which leads me to believe my antenna isn't too bad off yet. As an aside, I did notice that the DTV tuner itself results in a MUCH less viewable *analog* signal (remember, my boxes are pass-through). There seems to be a LOT of insertion loss attributable to the tuner. Again, my box brand is Magnavox - not what I would consider a fly-by-night or no-name manufacturer. I don't know how to resolve this - or if it is even a resolvable situation - but analog channels that were perfectly viewable before placing the box inline became terrible afterward. (I hate to use an arbitrary reference for this, but it was as if a 20dB attenuator or similar had been placed inline.) And I understand that many channels have moved from VHF to UHF... Well, it certainly looks as if I'll need to install a new antenna outside again... but I can't climb the tower now - I just had surgery. Plus, it's plain too cold to do it now. So we'll see when Spring breaks. But until then I won't be able to support/patronize those who advertise on the channels I can't see. grin Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Mark snip I do like the suggestion about the pre-amp - I may give that a try this afternoon (if it isn't too cold in my attic!) and I'll report my results. (BTW - mine is not a hardware store variety, it's a Winegard that I spent probably $70 on about three years ago.) Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of TGundo 2003 more snippage I hear once a day: The antenna in my attic/ my old antenna system does not get the DTV stations that I get in analog. My Response: Well, this is a technical group with a high level of RF knowledge. How well does your 440 antenna (or any band) work in the attic compared to on your roof or tower? There is some implied responsibility on the part of the end user to ensure that their equipment is optimized for the best performance. That being said, I have many many clients with antennas in the attic that work just fine. What I do find to be the typical problem is that most people with antennas in their attics have an amplifier installed to make up for being in the attic. I'm sorry to say that the $15-20 amplifier you pick up at the hardware store sucks, to prove that just bench test it on your specturm analyzer look at a DTV signal. They typically distort the waveform badly and that is more common a problem why you can't tune the DTV station. I have pulled those from an antenna system that were receiving analog but not digital. Once out of the system, while the analog was virtually unwatchable now (which the amp had boosted enough to tolerate), the DTV signal suddenly came thru with flying colors! Would you put a crappy preamp on your repeater receiver? I hear once a day: My converter box does not seem as sensitive as my new DTV set in the other room. My Response: Let's use some common sense here. The government mandated that the LOWEST COST possible converter boxes be made available for people to convert their OLD analog TV's. The bottom line: You get what you pay for. Was not that long ago a wise jedi master here on RB posted findings on PL circuits in radios with his test equipment and found that the cheaper radios did a poorer job. Your $50 converter box is not going to have as good of DTV tuner in it as your new $5000 Sony HDTV. This difference existed in analog tuners as well. Nuff said. *A side note: We have found that there are huge differences in converter boxes. For what it is worth the Zenith model seems to be one of the best, in case your shopping. I would stay away from brands you have never heard of at the big box stores.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
Try a new jumper between the converter and the TV. Maybe it's questionable and introducing your pass-through loss. Can't hurt to try. Chuck - Original Message - From: Mark n9...@ameritech.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 5:44 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues As an aside, I did notice that the DTV tuner itself results in a MUCH less viewable *analog* signal (remember, my boxes are pass-through). There seems to be a LOT of insertion loss attributable to the tuner.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
Just bought a Phillips DVDR3576H, has an ATSC, NTSC, QAM tuner, records to hard drive or DVD and has built-in timers. Also has modulator for output to ch 3 as well as composite video, component video and HDMI.Also upconverts to 720i or 1080i. May be more than you are looking for, but it is reasonably priced and current production. Henry, K4HAL Nate Duehr wrote: Here's something interesting I noticed. If the consumer (we're not people you know, we're consumers now...) had any type of Standard Def recording device that had its own tuner... It could ostensibly be set permanently to channel 3 (or whatever the RF output of the DTV converter box is) to handle making recordings... But, I haven't seen any DTV tuner boxes with clocks and/or scheduling capabilities to tune the correct channel prior to the recording device starting up. Has anyone else seen one of those? (Other than building a home-brew DVR with MythBox or buying a similar commercial product...) Nate WY0X Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.2/1876 - Release Date: 1/5/2009 9:44 AM
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
Already tried that with several lengths - in case the first one I tried was bad. And I did find a bad length, but it wasn't inline. Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Chuck Kelsey Try a new jumper between the converter and the TV. Maybe it's questionable and introducing your pass-through loss. Can't hurt to try. Chuck - Original Message - From: Mark n9...@ameritech.net As an aside, I did notice that the DTV tuner itself results in a MUCH less viewable *analog* signal (remember, my boxes are pass-through). There seems to be a LOT of insertion loss attributable to the tuner.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
I just looked at my TV converter coupon program letter and verified that they sent the card to my post office box. I got the card, no problem. Joe Larry wrote: Hello Mike, Are you saying your address shows as invalid?. I ordered some for my sister (on line) and it allowed you to enter an actual street address and then it allowed shipping to a different address like her P.O. Box.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
NBC Nightly News just had a teaser about the Obama Transition team wanting to push back the DTV switch-over date.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
The coupon site makes it clear that the coupons will come by standard mail, not first class. The postal service calls this Presort Standard. The more common dexriptor is junk mail. They're paying a reduced postal rate which frees the US Postal Service from the responsibility to forward. I believe PO boxes, nursing homes and some other previously disallowed addresstypes were OK'd late in the game. 73, Paul, AE4KR - Original Message - From: Mike Morris WA6ILQ To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 2:51 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues At 09:30 AM 01/08/09, you wrote: Hello Mike, Are you saying your address shows as invalid?. I ordered some for my sister (on line) and it allowed you to enter an actual street address and then it allowed shipping to a different address like her P.O. Box. My old adders is forwarded by the postal office. I had coupons sent there, but I never got them and according to the post office folks they can't forward them. Of course there may be a different reason that I didn't get them, and the PO guy is mistaken. The DTV web site back in August would not take a PO box. My new address was used by the former owners and the system won't send a second set of coupons to a different name. However if your address is non existent you might ask a friend to use theirs if they haven't ordered any Like I said, all of my friends are getting boxes using their addresses - they want the extra box for hacking purposes (nobody has a spare coupon). and have them sent to your P. O. Box. As long as you have a physical street address for your location it should work. At least it did here. Adding a extra letter (like changing apartment 12 to 12A results in The address you provided could not be found. The unit, suite, or apartment number for the address you provided is missing or invalid. Please supply a valid unit, suite, or apartment number and submit your application again. Physical locations have to be in their data base, and it's pretty accurate. However an email I received gave me a couple of additional options that I didn't know were available. I'm still looking for an unused address - someone local who not going to apply for any coupons - maybe he has purchased replacement TVs, or uses cable, etc.. Larry - N7FM Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
At 14:39 1/8/2009, TGundo 2003 wrote: There is a Sony DVD Recorder/VCR with a built in ATSC tuner that can record DTV onto either DVD or VCR, Maybe you are thinking of the Sony DHG-HDD250 and 500? If so, I have one, they won't record a DVD but otherwise they are great Too bad they are gone but that model has been discontinued and what's in stock at Sony it whats left. I have not seen any DTV converters that can do what you ask for. Remember- Made to be the least cost to the publicThat would have added $5 Tom W9SRV --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Nate Duehr n...@natetech.com wrote: From: Nate Duehr n...@natetech.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 4:07 PM Here's something interesting I noticed. If the consumer (we're not people you know, we're consumers now...) had any type of Standard Def recording device that had its own tuner... It could ostensibly be set permanently to channel 3 (or whatever the RF output of the DTV converter box is) to handle making recordings... But, I haven't seen any DTV tuner boxes with clocks and/or scheduling capabilities to tune the correct channel prior to the recording device starting up. Has anyone else seen one of those? (Other than building a home-brew DVR with MythBox or buying a similar commercial product...) Nate WY0X Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.2/1876 - Release Date: 1/5/2009 9:44 AM -- Dave Gomberg, San Francisco NE5EE gomberg1 at wcf dot com All addresses, phones, etc. at http://www.wcf.com/ham/info.html -
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
Mark wrote: NBC Nightly News just had a teaser about the Obama Transition team wanting to push back the DTV switch-over date… Maybe they should just do some more wealth redistribution to pay for a few more $40 coupons instead. Then they can feel the warm glow of accomplishment -- after hitting a real goal -- instead of moving the target and calling the move a successful outcome. Oh wait, they're politicians, I forgot. Sorry. My bad. What was I thinking!? Oops. Nate WY0X Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:repeater-builder-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:repeater-builder-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: repeater-builder-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
Model Number: RDR-VXD655 Still available on sony style, as a dealer were having a hard time getting them. This model does not have a hard drive, I know the one you have and it was great... Tom --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Dave Gomberg da...@wcf.com wrote: From: Dave Gomberg da...@wcf.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 6:32 PM At 14:39 1/8/2009, TGundo 2003 wrote: There is a Sony DVD Recorder/VCR with a built in ATSC tuner that can record DTV onto either DVD or VCR, Maybe you are thinking of the Sony DHG-HDD250 and 500? If so, I have one, they won't record a DVD but otherwise they are great Too bad they are gone but that model has been discontinued and what's in stock at Sony it whats left. I have not seen any DTV converters that can do what you ask for. Remember- Made to be the least cost to the publicThat would have added $5 Tom W9SRV --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Nate Duehr n...@natetech.com wrote: From: Nate Duehr n...@natetech.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 4:07 PM Here's something interesting I noticed. If the consumer (we're not people you know, we're consumers now...) had any type of Standard Def recording device that had its own tuner... It could ostensibly be set permanently to channel 3 (or whatever the RF output of the DTV converter box is) to handle making recordings... But, I haven't seen any DTV tuner boxes with clocks and/or scheduling capabilities to tune the correct channel prior to the recording device starting up. Has anyone else seen one of those? (Other than building a home-brew DVR with MythBox or buying a similar commercial product...) Nate WY0X Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.2/1876 - Release Date: 1/5/2009 9:44 AM -- Dave Gomberg, San Francisco NE5EE gomberg1 at wcf dot com All addresses, phones, etc. at http://www.wcf.com/ham/info.html - Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
Chuck Kelsey wrote: I'm using the Magnavox converter. Compared to my HDTV, I'd say that reception is the same, only that the converter changes channels a lot faster than the tuner in the TV. Actually the converter has a longer run of coax than the TV. We are doing several digital to analog conversions for the small catv systems I take care of. We also like the Magnavox unit over the RCA; both available at our local Wal-Mart. The Magnavox will resolve with lower signal level without tiling or saying the signal is too low. Kevin Custer
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
At 1/8/2009 07:02, you wrote: Try this site. It's not perfect, but will give you an idea. I find cased where it says I'm well within range and I can't get the channels and some where it says I shouldn't and do. http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/ Keep in mind than a lot of stations have gone from VHF to UHF in the process. Chuck ...and after the analog shutdown many of the UHF TXs will backfill into the VHF HB channels. I know some people around here are buying UHF-only antennas, thinking they have DTV in this area all figured out. They're in for an unpleasant surprise come Feb. 17 when chs. 7, 9, 11 13 all move back to those actual channels from their current, temporary UHF DTV assignments. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
From the for what it's worth can: I had a talk with my son (RF engineer for several TV stations in the Florida panhandle) about this DTV stuff. Condensed version: Most stations are not running full power on there DTV yet. Preamps used now will have to be removed after full power due to front end overload of converters. Many stations will be going back to there original VHF freq's after the analog is down, so UHF transmitters are just temporary. LG developed the system used for DTV, conveters made by them tend to work better (includes Zenith boxes). There has been 5 revisions to system, early boxes don't work as well as newer ones. I also talked to a couple of DTV DXer's, the Zenith DTT900 seems to be the box of choice of these guys. Gerald Pelnar WD0FYF McPherson, Ks - Original Message - From: TRACOMM trac...@yahoo.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 2:21 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues Having issues converting over to digital TV. My father volunteered my services to a few of his friends, all serious seniors, Detroit market, As an elecronic wizard (my dad's words) I should be able to make anything with wires work well. Most converter boxes I tried took forever to scan, channels missing, analog TV worked great. Most of the seniors already had their free box, obtained with the converter box coupon. Only boxes I have found so far that seem to work very well are the DigitalStream Zenith pass thru boxes, scan quickly, best picture on rabbit ears. Cost more, but worth the price. Below is a message from another user group, also detailing the frustration in switching over to digital. CJD
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
Almost all of the stations will be UHF in my area when all is said and done. Check your region on this map to be sure. It shows what channel the stations will use after cutover. http://www.fcc.gov/dtv/markets/ Chuck - Original Message - From: Gerald Pelnar wd0...@cox.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 10:29 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues Many stations will be going back to there original VHF freq's after the analog is down, so UHF transmitters are just temporary.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
At 1/8/2009 08:02, you wrote: Tom, I do like the suggestion about the pre-amp - I may give that a try this afternoon (if it isn't too cold in my attic!) and I'll report my results. (BTW - mine is not a hardware store variety, it's a Winegard that I spent probably $70 on about three years ago.) Preamps aren't going to help if the problem is multipath distortion. From what I've been told, the 8VSB format that our DTV uses has poor multipath tolerance. Notice how there are no DTV Watchmans available. When Feb. 17 arrives I won't be able to watch TV during my weekend walks anymore. I think DTV is like D-Star: on paper, in good broadband path conditions, digital will outperform analog. However, in many real-world scenarios digital falls apart due to its intolerance of phase distortion. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
As someone that works in the CATV industry... I'm truly looking forward to the analog-shutoff in February... No more ghosting trouble calls due to ingress... Granted, those T/Cs will be less frequent but the problem of ingress/egress will still be present... Oh well :) I can tell you that our install volume for homes that have never ever had cable has jumper 400% since the coupon program ran out of money... 73s, AJ, K6LOR Boise, Idaho market On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 9:38 PM, n...@no6b.com wrote: At 1/8/2009 08:02, you wrote: Tom, I do like the suggestion about the pre-amp - I may give that a try this afternoon (if it isn't too cold in my attic!) and I'll report my results. (BTW - mine is not a hardware store variety, it's a Winegard that I spent probably $70 on about three years ago.) Preamps aren't going to help if the problem is multipath distortion. From what I've been told, the 8VSB format that our DTV uses has poor multipath tolerance. Notice how there are no DTV Watchmans available. When Feb. 17 arrives I won't be able to watch TV during my weekend walks anymore. I think DTV is like D-Star: on paper, in good broadband path conditions, digital will outperform analog. However, in many real-world scenarios digital falls apart due to its intolerance of phase distortion. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
At 1/8/2009 14:39, you wrote: But, I haven't seen any DTV tuner boxes with clocks and/or scheduling capabilities to tune the correct channel prior to the recording device starting up. Has anyone else seen one of those? (Other than building a home-brew DVR with MythBox or buying a similar commercial product...) I forget its name, but there is a product out there that sends IR signals from a scheduler to control IR-controllable equipment such as VCRs, TVs, etc. I think it runs on a PC. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
Only some are made low cost (and coupon 'eligible'). There are a lot of models that are not eligible for the coupon that have more features than the basic models - such as 1080p support. I have not seen any with any scheduling features, either, however. Joe M. TGundo 2003 wrote: There is a Sony DVD Recorder/VCR with a built in ATSC tuner that can record DTV onto either DVD or VCR, but that model has been discontinued and what's in stock at Sony it whats left. I have not seen any DTV converters that can do what you ask for. Remember- Made to be the least cost to the publicThat would have added $5 Tom W9SRV --- On Thu, 1/8/09, Nate Duehr n...@natetech.com wrote: From: Nate Duehr n...@natetech.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, January 8, 2009, 4:07 PM Here's something interesting I noticed. If the consumer (we're not people you know, we're consumers now...) had any type of Standard Def recording device that had its own tuner... It could ostensibly be set permanently to channel 3 (or whatever the RF output of the DTV converter box is) to handle making recordings... But, I haven't seen any DTV tuner boxes with clocks and/or scheduling capabilities to tune the correct channel prior to the recording device starting up. Has anyone else seen one of those? (Other than building a home-brew DVR with MythBox or buying a similar commercial product...) Nate WY0X Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
That will be a loss for all RF users because where there is INGRESS, there is usually EGRESS, too (and often to the point it's not legal). Cable is supposed to be a closed system. As you said, the problem will still be present - just not dealt with as swiftly - if at all. The only ones who should be offended by the above statement are those who promote running illegal systems, so please consider that before you reply. Joe M. AJ wrote: As someone that works in the CATV industry... I'm truly looking forward to the analog-shutoff in February... No more ghosting trouble calls due to ingress... Granted, those T/Cs will be less frequent but the problem of ingress/egress will still be present... Oh well :) I can tell you that our install volume for homes that have never ever had cable has jumper 400% since the coupon program ran out of money... 73s, AJ, K6LOR Boise, Idaho market On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 9:38 PM, n...@no6b.com mailto:n...@no6b.com wrote: At 1/8/2009 08:02, you wrote: Tom, I do like the suggestion about the pre-amp - I may give that a try this afternoon (if it isn't too cold in my attic!) and I'll report my results. (BTW - mine is not a hardware store variety, it's a Winegard that I spent probably $70 on about three years ago.) Preamps aren't going to help if the problem is multipath distortion. From what I've been told, the 8VSB format that our DTV uses has poor multipath tolerance. Notice how there are no DTV Watchmans available. When Feb. 17 arrives I won't be able to watch TV during my weekend walks anymore. I think DTV is like D-Star: on paper, in good broadband path conditions, digital will outperform analog. However, in many real-world scenarios digital falls apart due to its intolerance of phase distortion. Bob NO6B
RE: [Repeater-Builder] OT- Digital TV converter box issues
This will be My last comment on this, The Topic sure has run its course and Generated a lot of Valuable info that some may of not been aware of , It is one thing to talk about something New but another thing When people like on Here have actually already tried it and Experienced the Problems , Everything New has problems look at some of the Repeaters We put together . Anyway I was watching CNN Before I went to bed and saw President Elect Obama recommends a delay to the DTV Switch in Feb, I will not post the info because of Copy write but Anyone can do a Goggle search on it . Thanks for the Bandwidth, No pun intended Don KA9QJG ___
