Re: [Resin-interest] php4 in Quercus
Hi Scott, What is the specific problem you're seeing? It might be a Quercus bug. PHP 5 should only be an extention of PHP 4, so all PHP 4 applications should work fine. It might be a bug in Quercus. Thanks for your response. I'm not familiar with PHP, so at this point unfortunately I cannot give you a specific technical example of an error - at least not one that would help you diagnose the problem. My description would be too high-level, such as when I press this button, it doesn't work. It could be a problem with the PHP code itself. Perhaps just a few tweaks would make it work properly with Quercus. Basically we're using Resin for our Java web applications, and trying to add a PHP application, developed entirely by a third party, without changing or adding servers. I wish I knew enough about PHP to be able to determine if the problem can or cannot easily be solved. The provider's developers are using another server, and so are quick to blame Resin/Quercus for the bugs. I'm not sure that they're willing to put in some effort to fix the problems. Rather, they're pushing us to use the same server as theirs. On the other hand, I look at your list of rather complex applications that run under Quercus without problems (phpMyAdmin, phpBB, etc.) and think that this application should be able to work properly under Quercus. Again, how can I determine this without knowing much PHP. If I am able to produce a very specific bug in the application and narrow down the source php file that causes the error, I'll post it here and hopefully you can determine if it's a Quercus bug or not. If you have any suggestions, please let me know. Thanks very much for your help. Fred -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ resin-interest mailing list resin-interest@caucho.com http://maillist.caucho.com/mailman/listinfo/resin-interest
Re: [Resin-interest] php4 in Quercus
again i would say do all the experimentation w/ a mod-php5 box first. you may be able to push the original application developers saying something like, 'we put it on a mod-php5 box and it isnt running'. ask them if its supposed to run on mod-php5. as for the list of app frameworks that run on quercus it looks like phpMyAdmin definately runs on: php 4.1.0 phpBB runs on: php 4.3.3 i would really try to find out what the exact requirements are; you might be missing an extension the app relies on, and that could be the big problem getting it to run under quercus. get it to run on mod-php5; find out exactly what extensions you need; press the devs at that company if it doesnt run there and then try to get it to run under quercus. like i said, there may be an extension quercus doesnt have that the app relies on, which might cripple your objective if you dont want to write any code, or pay the other company. ps. if it were me, i wouldnt tell them i was trying to run it under quercus until i absolutely had too. -nathan On 6/14/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Scott, What is the specific problem you're seeing? It might be a Quercus bug. PHP 5 should only be an extention of PHP 4, so all PHP 4 applications should work fine. It might be a bug in Quercus. Thanks for your response. I'm not familiar with PHP, so at this point unfortunately I cannot give you a specific technical example of an error - at least not one that would help you diagnose the problem. My description would be too high-level, such as when I press this button, it doesn't work. It could be a problem with the PHP code itself. Perhaps just a few tweaks would make it work properly with Quercus. Basically we're using Resin for our Java web applications, and trying to add a PHP application, developed entirely by a third party, without changing or adding servers. I wish I knew enough about PHP to be able to determine if the problem can or cannot easily be solved. The provider's developers are using another server, and so are quick to blame Resin/Quercus for the bugs. I'm not sure that they're willing to put in some effort to fix the problems. Rather, they're pushing us to use the same server as theirs. On the other hand, I look at your list of rather complex applications that run under Quercus without problems (phpMyAdmin, phpBB, etc.) and think that this application should be able to work properly under Quercus. Again, how can I determine this without knowing much PHP. If I am able to produce a very specific bug in the application and narrow down the source php file that causes the error, I'll post it here and hopefully you can determine if it's a Quercus bug or not. If you have any suggestions, please let me know. Thanks very much for your help. Fred -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ resin-interest mailing list resin-interest@caucho.com http://maillist.caucho.com/mailman/listinfo/resin-interest ___ resin-interest mailing list resin-interest@caucho.com http://maillist.caucho.com/mailman/listinfo/resin-interest
Re: [Resin-interest] php4 in Quercus
Ok. There's a decent chance it's a Quercus bug, then. if the app doesnt run under mod-php5, how can you blame quercus? i mean what is the stance of quercus, is it supposed to emulate mod-php4 and mod-php5 or just mod-php5? -nathan On 6/14/07, Scott Ferguson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 14, 2007, at 8:59 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for your response. I'm not familiar with PHP, so at this point unfortunately I cannot give you a specific technical example of an error - at least not one that would help you diagnose the problem. My description would be too high-level, such as when I press this button, it doesn't work. On the other hand, I look at your list of rather complex applications that run under Quercus without problems (phpMyAdmin, phpBB, etc.) and think that this application should be able to work properly under Quercus. Again, how can I determine this without knowing much PHP. Ok. There's a decent chance it's a Quercus bug, then. Our main development goals for Quercus for the rest of the year are working towards getting 100 PHP applications running on Quercus and closing bugs as they're reported. Because PHP isn't a specification-based language, and because the libraries are extensive and sometimes strange, the only way to really ensure that Quercus is correct is to get lots of existing applications running correctly. We're still at the stage where many/most new applications we try uncovers some library bug or language quirk that Quercus doesn't have working exactly like PHP. -- Scott If I am able to produce a very specific bug in the application and narrow down the source php file that causes the error, I'll post it here and hopefully you can determine if it's a Quercus bug or not. If you have any suggestions, please let me know. Thanks very much for your help. Fred -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ resin-interest mailing list resin-interest@caucho.com http://maillist.caucho.com/mailman/listinfo/resin-interest ___ resin-interest mailing list resin-interest@caucho.com http://maillist.caucho.com/mailman/listinfo/resin-interest ___ resin-interest mailing list resin-interest@caucho.com http://maillist.caucho.com/mailman/listinfo/resin-interest
Re: [Resin-interest] php4 in Quercus
Scott Ferguson wrote: Our main development goals for Quercus for the rest of the year are working towards getting 100 PHP applications running on Quercus and closing bugs as they're reported. Cool. Well I'd really appreciate news when Pligg is ok (the PHP Digg clone). Its at (http://bugs.caucho.com/view.php?id=1800) and the db connect half works, so it might be a quickie. Anyone else seen com.mysql.jdbc.exceptions.MySQLSyntaxErrorException: Query was empty. from Quercus? -- -- http://www.phonewebcam.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ resin-interest mailing list resin-interest@caucho.com http://maillist.caucho.com/mailman/listinfo/resin-interest
Re: [Resin-interest] php4 in Quercus
I must confess I still don't understand why anyone would use anything other than MOD_PHP for PHP? Anyone who's not using Apache. In our case we're using Resin because we started out with a Java web application and Resin serves us well. Then, we need to add an application in PHP4, and if we can integrate this in Resin, this will save changing or adding servers. Fred -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ resin-interest mailing list resin-interest@caucho.com http://maillist.caucho.com/mailman/listinfo/resin-interest
Re: [Resin-interest] php4 in Quercus
PHP4 is well supported/understood and is relatively easy to scale i agree w/ you on the understanding part, but its the scalability part that isnt so easy. most people think to just throw hardware at the problem, but what they dont realize is php, being a scripting language has some memory management issues unless a cache is implemented. so the database will get nailed hard w/o a cache and then naive people think the database is lagging, when really the code is rebuilding variables in isolated threads on every single page load. aside from that, there are plenty of ways to scale php, sure; like using soap or some such, to implement a multi-tier solution. to communicate w/ different layers that sit on completely different servers, perhaps each layer could even be load balanced; and in that case, a cache could still be avoided. but the main thing that kills me about php4 is the weak object model. im an oo advocate; and i cant stand all the hackers who think they know how to program writing really poorly written apps for me to come an loathe over. im not suggesting anyone on this mailing list is such, but what i am trying to express is, in my experience, php programmers dont know general programming concepts like people from other camps; c++, java, .net ... even other scripting languages like python for instance; if i were going to write in python the code would be oo. -nathan On 6/13/07, David Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nathan Nobbe wrote: Fred, i like what yong has to say on this one. i just got a new job a couple of months back and was shocked to find the company still deep into php4 w/ no strategy to move to 5. PHP4 is well supported/understood and is relatively easy to scale. I must confess I still don't understand why anyone would use anything other than MOD_PHP for PHP? Dave ___ resin-interest mailing list resin-interest@caucho.com http://maillist.caucho.com/mailman/listinfo/resin-interest ___ resin-interest mailing list resin-interest@caucho.com http://maillist.caucho.com/mailman/listinfo/resin-interest
Re: [Resin-interest] php4 in Quercus
Nathan Nobbe wrote: Fred, i like what yong has to say on this one. i just got a new job a couple of months back and was shocked to find the company still deep into php4 w/ no strategy to move to 5. PHP4 is well supported/understood and is relatively easy to scale. I must confess I still don't understand why anyone would use anything other than MOD_PHP for PHP? Dave ___ resin-interest mailing list resin-interest@caucho.com http://maillist.caucho.com/mailman/listinfo/resin-interest
Re: [Resin-interest] php4 in Quercus
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I must confess I still don't understand why anyone would use anything other than MOD_PHP for PHP? Anyone who's not using Apache. In our case we're using Resin because we started out with a Java web application and Resin serves us well. Then, we need to add an application in PHP4, and if we can integrate this in Resin, this will save changing or adding servers. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should ;) Anyways, good luck. Dave ___ resin-interest mailing list resin-interest@caucho.com http://maillist.caucho.com/mailman/listinfo/resin-interest
Re: [Resin-interest] php4 in Quercus
There are scenarios where php4 code will not run on a php5 system. php5 has magic functions that are not defined in 4 (there could be collisions here), also there are new functions in the standard api that are new (possible collisions here) php5 defines object that are not defined in 4; like DateTime; i ran into that porting a DateTime class from 4 to 5 recently. there may be other weirdnesses that break things as well, but the best thing to do would be to test on a mod-php 5 system first prior to a run under quercus. as we can see from the original post I tried using Quercus but have run into problems. AFAICT, Quercus supports PHP5 and that may be causing the errors. To confirm this, I tried the site under Apache + PHP4 (works), and Apache + PHP5 (errors). it sounds like quercus wasnt written to really support 4, but from everything i read the migration of php4 codebase to a php5 server shouldnt be too bad. here are some official references on the php site http://au.php.net/manual/en/faq.migration5.php http://au.php.net/manual/en/migration5.incompatible.php Fred, when testing on the mod-php5 setup, did you make sure to update php.ini to reflect your configuration on the php4 system? also, there will have to be configuration changes made to the quercus instance as well. i wouldnt be surprised if some of the issues are there; plus, i recall reading about a setting that can help in the migration process, turning it on until the code is running smoothly then turning it off at that point; ill try to find that article if i can. in general i think the issues you will run into will be small, an obscure getting the php4 code to run under 5; but i would definately get it running on the mod-php5 box first before attempting the move to quercus. that way you will understand the challanges and already be prepared for them. as far as to upgrade or not to upgrade; i am a believer in always being up to date; for the sake of being up to date. php4 is outdated; the xml framework has been massively revised among many other dramatic core changes, not including the oo features. also, php5 supports the same procedural programing 4 does, so the simpleprogramming is still there and if you prefer programming procedurally that is no excuse to stay w/ 4. in general i like to model php scripts much like java files; having each file declare a class; where the name of the file reflects the name of the class defined within, capitalized of course. in my view, php code that resides outside of a class is synonymous to code within a main method in c or java. -nathan On 6/12/07, Scott Ferguson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 12, 2007, at 6:07 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Yong, Nathan, Thanks for your responses. Sure, ideally the site would move to PHP5 but I don't know if that's possible in the short term. Assuming that it's not, I was hoping for another possibility to get the site working under PHP4 within Resin. Any ideas? What is the specific problem you're seeing? It might be a Quercus bug. PHP 5 should only be an extention of PHP 4, so all PHP 4 applications should work fine. It might be a bug in Quercus. (Actually, Quercus can generate faster code for PHP 4 style function calls than it can for method invocations, so PHP 5 isn't always better. And sometimes the simplicity of PHP 4 is better than using PHP 5 objects. The object stuff can often be moved into Java code.) -- Scott Thanks again! Fred On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 19:26:29 -0400, Nathan Nobbe [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Fred, i like what yong has to say on this one. i just got a new job a couple of months back and was shocked to find the company still deep into php4 w/ no strategy to move to 5. although 6 doesnt have a clear deadline, i would assume it is only a matter of time. and i would not like to be in the position of migrating directly from 4 to 6; i dont know maybe it wont be so bad compared to migration to 5, but i just dont like to be behind. just my 2 c : -nathan On 6/12/07, Yong Bakos [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Fred, is the site very big or complex? I recommend moving to PHP5 whenever doing so causes too much bloodshed. Quercus is based on PHP5 with an eye on PHP6. Good luck, Yong On Jun 12, 2007, at 1:24 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I have a site using PHP4 that I would like to run under Resin, because I also have J2EE applications already running under Resin and would like to keep it all under one roof. I tried using Quercus but have run into problems. AFAICT, Quercus supports PHP5 and that may be causing the errors. To confirm this, I tried the site under Apache + PHP4 (works), and Apache + PHP5 (errors). So PHP5 seems to be causing the errors. Is there any way that I can run this PHP4 site under Resin? If this is not possible using Quercus, is there another option? Would using net.php.servlet and phpsrvlt.jar work under Resin? Has anyone tried this option, is it reliable?
Re: [Resin-interest] php4 in Quercus
Thanks very much Nathan for your reply. Very useful and much appreciated. We'll evaluate our options based on the issues that you raised.. Cheers, Fred -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ resin-interest mailing list resin-interest@caucho.com http://maillist.caucho.com/mailman/listinfo/resin-interest
[Resin-interest] php4 in Quercus
Hi, I have a site using PHP4 that I would like to run under Resin, because I also have J2EE applications already running under Resin and would like to keep it all under one roof. I tried using Quercus but have run into problems. AFAICT, Quercus supports PHP5 and that may be causing the errors. To confirm this, I tried the site under Apache + PHP4 (works), and Apache + PHP5 (errors). So PHP5 seems to be causing the errors. Is there any way that I can run this PHP4 site under Resin? If this is not possible using Quercus, is there another option? Would using net.php.servlet and phpsrvlt.jar work under Resin? Has anyone tried this option, is it reliable? Thanks in advance, your advice would be greatly appreciated. Fred -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ resin-interest mailing list resin-interest@caucho.com http://maillist.caucho.com/mailman/listinfo/resin-interest
Re: [Resin-interest] php4 in Quercus
Fred, i like what yong has to say on this one. i just got a new job a couple of months back and was shocked to find the company still deep into php4 w/ no strategy to move to 5. although 6 doesnt have a clear deadline, i would assume it is only a matter of time. and i would not like to be in the position of migrating directly from 4 to 6; i dont know maybe it wont be so bad compared to migration to 5, but i just dont like to be behind. just my 2 c : -nathan On 6/12/07, Yong Bakos [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Fred, is the site very big or complex? I recommend moving to PHP5 whenever doing so causes too much bloodshed. Quercus is based on PHP5 with an eye on PHP6. Good luck, Yong On Jun 12, 2007, at 1:24 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I have a site using PHP4 that I would like to run under Resin, because I also have J2EE applications already running under Resin and would like to keep it all under one roof. I tried using Quercus but have run into problems. AFAICT, Quercus supports PHP5 and that may be causing the errors. To confirm this, I tried the site under Apache + PHP4 (works), and Apache + PHP5 (errors). So PHP5 seems to be causing the errors. Is there any way that I can run this PHP4 site under Resin? If this is not possible using Quercus, is there another option? Would using net.php.servlet and phpsrvlt.jar work under Resin? Has anyone tried this option, is it reliable? Thanks in advance, your advice would be greatly appreciated. Fred -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ resin-interest mailing list resin-interest@caucho.com http://maillist.caucho.com/mailman/listinfo/resin-interest ___ resin-interest mailing list resin-interest@caucho.com http://maillist.caucho.com/mailman/listinfo/resin-interest ___ resin-interest mailing list resin-interest@caucho.com http://maillist.caucho.com/mailman/listinfo/resin-interest
Re: [Resin-interest] php4 in Quercus
Hi Yong, Nathan, Thanks for your responses. Sure, ideally the site would move to PHP5 but I don't know if that's possible in the short term. Assuming that it's not, I was hoping for another possibility to get the site working under PHP4 within Resin. Any ideas? Thanks again! Fred On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 19:26:29 -0400, Nathan Nobbe [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Fred, i like what yong has to say on this one. i just got a new job a couple of months back and was shocked to find the company still deep into php4 w/ no strategy to move to 5. although 6 doesnt have a clear deadline, i would assume it is only a matter of time. and i would not like to be in the position of migrating directly from 4 to 6; i dont know maybe it wont be so bad compared to migration to 5, but i just dont like to be behind. just my 2 c : -nathan On 6/12/07, Yong Bakos [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Fred, is the site very big or complex? I recommend moving to PHP5 whenever doing so causes too much bloodshed. Quercus is based on PHP5 with an eye on PHP6. Good luck, Yong On Jun 12, 2007, at 1:24 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I have a site using PHP4 that I would like to run under Resin, because I also have J2EE applications already running under Resin and would like to keep it all under one roof. I tried using Quercus but have run into problems. AFAICT, Quercus supports PHP5 and that may be causing the errors. To confirm this, I tried the site under Apache + PHP4 (works), and Apache + PHP5 (errors). So PHP5 seems to be causing the errors. Is there any way that I can run this PHP4 site under Resin? If this is not possible using Quercus, is there another option? Would using net.php.servlet and phpsrvlt.jar work under Resin? Has anyone tried this option, is it reliable? Thanks in advance, your advice would be greatly appreciated. Fred -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ resin-interest mailing list resin-interest@caucho.com http://maillist.caucho.com/mailman/listinfo/resin-interest ___ resin-interest mailing list resin-interest@caucho.com http://maillist.caucho.com/mailman/listinfo/resin-interest -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ resin-interest mailing list resin-interest@caucho.com http://maillist.caucho.com/mailman/listinfo/resin-interest
