Re: Backup renders ASIP server mute, deaf

2000-10-17 Thread Pam Lefkowitz

>Thanks for your reply. Why yes, I did order this G4 this summer. I'm 
>forgetting what "MP" stands for, though. At any rate, I'm curious as to 
>what the "known issues" you refer to are. I did read the Apple TIL #25147 
>on the Ethernet Update 1.0, which describes symptoms not quite like mine:
>

Andrew,

MP = Multiprocessor

This is a newer issue than what the ether update addressed. There were a 
bunch (in round numbers) of postings on this at macfixit and I believe 
there's a TIL on it too that states that there isn't a fix for it yet but 
they're working on it.  I'd have to hit the web to get you more 
details but time doesn't allow it right at this moment (feel free to 
search though ). It's happening with Summer 2000 iMacs too as I recall.

>I can't try moving the backup drive at this time; the G4 has no SCSI card, 
>and I have no other machine available, but I will hope to give this a try 
>eventually.
>

Ah, so I see weekend work in the making...hostile takeover of some 
unsuspecting users' machine. heh.

Pam


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Re: Backup renders ASIP server mute, deaf

2000-10-17 Thread Andrew Tomlinson

Pam,

Thanks for your reply. Why yes, I did order this G4 this summer. I'm forgetting what 
"MP" stands for, though. At any rate, I'm curious as to what the "known issues" you 
refer to are. I did read the Apple TIL #25147 on the Ethernet Update 1.0, which 
describes symptoms not quite like mine:

"Ethernet Update 1.0 addresses an issue where a Macintosh in certain rare network 
configurations may continue to transmit data but not receive data.[In my case, it 
doesn't transmit datal, either] Manually putting the Macintosh to sleep and then 
waking it, or restarting the computer enables it to temporarily reestablish network 
connectivity. After a period of time, which varies by topology and infrastructure, the 
computer again ceases to receive packets. The computer functions normally on isolated 
networks."

The Read-Me for Ethernet Update 1.0 also describes a situation not like ours:
"Ethernet Update 1.0 improves the reliability of ethernet in certain rare network 
configurations.  These configurations are typically 10Mbit networks which include coax 
(10Base5 or 10Base2) network segments [We have none of this] in large single collision 
domains ( i.e. not separated by switches ) that use much smaller than standard 
interpacket gaps or have carrier collision dropout.  This update replaces the Mac OS 
ROM file with a new version, 3.8.

Apple System Profiler reports Mac OS ROM 3.9 on our server, so the update would 
seem... like a backdate.

The backup does not stall on the same file each time.

I can't try moving the backup drive at this time; the G4 has no SCSI card, and I have 
no other machine available, but I will hope to give this a try eventually.

Thanks again,

Andrew

At 4:22 PM -0500 10/16/00, Pam Lefkowitz wrote:
> >4. The G4 does not crash. MOSSA indicates it is still serving via
>>Appletalk, TCP, etc. File server can be stopped, restarted via MOSSA; Mac
>>OS Server Admin Agent can be quit, re-run; file server can be stopped,
>>Appletalk turned off/on, file service restarted. Nevertheless, the G4 can
>>no longer see anything on the network (via Chooser) nor be seen by
>>anything on the network. Only a reboot of the machine restores network
>>function.
>
>Andrew,
>
>Does it lose its senses at the same place/file each time?
>
>Just out of curiosity...which G4 are you using? If it's a G4MP there are
>some known issues with the summer 2000 models dropping ethernet after
>running fine for a good while.
>
>If it's not a summer model then you could do two things:
>1) move the tape drive to the G4 and see what happens when you back up
>locally.
>2) move the tape drive to some other machine (not an ASIP server) and see
>what happens with the G4 when you back it up (for that matter, back up
>the G3 ASIP server as a client and see what happens with it as well).
>
>Maybe these results will help you narrow down where to look for the
>problem.
>
>hth,
>
>Pam
-- 
Andrew Tomlinson, Technology Coordinator
Western High School
Baltimore, MD
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Backup renders ASIP server mute, deaf

2000-10-17 Thread David Ross

> It could of course be hardware - but what hardware breaks occasionally and then is 
>fixed after a reboot? 

Lots. A reboot clears out lots of things, especially ram. If you have a
flakey bit of ram you'll only see the problem when you run into it. And
when you hit it will depend many times on the usage pattern of the
computer. Ditto disk drives, routers, etc...


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Re: Backup renders ASIP server mute, deaf

2000-10-17 Thread Graham, Total Coverage Limited

>Subject: Backup renders ASIP server mute, deaf
>From: "Andrew Tomlinson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 11:45:55 -0400

I have experienced the exact same problem backing up a G4 ASIP server. I put a 
Kingston KNE110 Ethernet card in my backup Mac to increase throughput, Everything 
worked fine apart from when backing up the ASIP server, when the problems Andrew 
stated appeared every time I tried to back it up.
Dantz tech support have offered a troubleshooting approach working from the reported 
519 error, which I am working through. But, via the AppleshareIP mailing list I have 
found the following snippet (more at 
http://homepage.mac.com/suinn/ASIPBlackMagic.html) courtesy Brad Suinn, an Apple 
person (I think) with a close involvement in ASIP:

Large File copies over 100Mbit getting stuck.
ASIP File Server getting "hung/frozen/etc", but other services like Web work...
AFP/TCP freezing under heavy load, but AFP/ATalk still works
- */
Seems to be related to "OT Auto Push Support" extension in your system folder.  
This extension is used for the TCP Filtering, but note that TCP filtering does 
not actually have to be in use, just the presence of that extension is enough.

1)  Remove the "OT Auto Push Support" extension from the system folder.
2)  Restart your server.
3)  This will totally disable TCP filtering which is a bummer.
4)  Maybe try www.opendoor.com for a better TCP filter?

The OT Auto Push Support extension does seem to be a casause of some concern in a 
number of forums that I listen in to. And the discussion of the type of problems it  
can cause seems to mirror quite closely what I, and others have experienced when 
backing up ASIP servers.

I am still working through the troubleshooting process (which is slow as I still need 
to keep the server working each day to support our users), but if I find anything I 
will try to report it here.
Regards
Graham


>Our backup script in Retrospect ran beautifully for a month, but now fails every time.
>Here's the situation:
>
>1. Two ASIP servers (G3, G4) plugged into same Asante dumb 10BT hub. Retrospect runs 
>on
>the G3 w/SCSI card and APS DDS-3 tape backup. Apple System Profiler reports both 
>servers
>running at 10Mbps, Half Duplex.
>2. Backups of the local HD (G3) work fine, and there are never problems with the G3
>server.
>3. Backups of the G4 via Retrospect network client go part way, backing up some files,
>then fail as the G4 suddenly becomes mute and deaf. Retrospect does a "Net Retry," 
>then
>aborts the backup when it fails to find the G4.
>4. The G4 does not crash. MOSSA indicates it is still serving via Appletalk, TCP, etc.
>File server can be stopped, restarted via MOSSA; Mac OS Server Admin Agent can be 
>quit,
>re-run; file server can be stopped, Appletalk turned off/on, file service restarted.
>Nevertheless, the G4 can no longer see anything on the network (via Chooser) nor be 
>seen
>by anything on the network. Only a reboot of the machine restores network function.
>5. Retrospect log reports "519" error for the G4 backup. From reading through the
>archives, I gather that I should be looking for flaws in the network hardware, but I
>don't really know where to start. Everything else about these servers is runnning just
>fine.
>--
>Andrew Tomlinson
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]



Graham Mitchell
Total Coverage Limited
the co-operative design consultancy
T: 023 8067 8330
F: 023 8067 8340
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.totalcoverage.co.uk




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Re: Backup renders ASIP server mute, deaf

2000-10-16 Thread Nicholas Froome

...
>5. Retrospect log reports "519" error for the G4 backup. From reading through the 
>archives, I gather that I should be looking for flaws in the network hardware, but I 
>don't really know where to start. Everything else about these servers is runnning 
>just fine.


This ties in with our experiences at one client. One machine in particular exhibits 
this behaviour, erroring out with a 519 at some point in the backup every time - but 
never the same point.

Some other machines do it occasionally, but this one is remarkably consistent. My 
hypothesis was that it was crashing - but the user reports no untoward behaviour 
whilst working on it.

Now I think it might be an OS-related TCP/IP deafness of a kind that has been 
affecting some people who post to the WebStar list.

It could of course be hardware - but what hardware breaks occasionally and then is 
fixed after a reboot? I think Dantz are right to say it is network, but I'd hazard a 
guess it is OS-related and just an effect that is brought on by the huge traffic a 
backup creates - similar to a hard-worked webserver?

This one will run and run - I'd be grateful for any and all feedback on this problem.
 



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Re: Backup renders ASIP server mute, deaf

2000-10-16 Thread Pam Lefkowitz

>4. The G4 does not crash. MOSSA indicates it is still serving via 
>Appletalk, TCP, etc. File server can be stopped, restarted via MOSSA; Mac 
>OS Server Admin Agent can be quit, re-run; file server can be stopped, 
>Appletalk turned off/on, file service restarted. Nevertheless, the G4 can 
>no longer see anything on the network (via Chooser) nor be seen by 
>anything on the network. Only a reboot of the machine restores network 
>function.

Andrew,

Does it lose its senses at the same place/file each time?

Just out of curiosity...which G4 are you using? If it's a G4MP there are 
some known issues with the summer 2000 models dropping ethernet after 
running fine for a good while.

If it's not a summer model then you could do two things:
1) move the tape drive to the G4 and see what happens when you back up 
locally.
2) move the tape drive to some other machine (not an ASIP server) and see 
what happens with the G4 when you back it up (for that matter, back up 
the G3 ASIP server as a client and see what happens with it as well).

Maybe these results will help you narrow down where to look for the 
problem.

hth,

Pam


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