Re: [Rosegarden-user] [Rosegarden-devel] Fwd: Rosegarden's Future
Musix is created by educators? That is cool On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 3:41 AM, david wrote: > On 05/17/2012 12:33 PM, jimmy wrote: > >> On 05/17/2012 02:26 AM, David Tisdell wrote: > >> > >>> I hear you but as a music teacher and music software > >> evangelist, it is > >>> huge when I can push an app that runs on multiple > >> platforms to an > >>> education audience. I do all of my most important audio > >> work in Linux > > [snips] > > > Different platforms will have multitude of problems relating to > > testing, different versions of libraries, drivers, software... > > I use a panorama creator called Hugin. I use Debian Sid on 2 different > machines, identical distros, identical version of Hugin. On one machine, > Hugin works flawlessly. On the other, Hugin silently dies whenever I > attempt to preview a panorama. The difference? Display hardware! The one > where it works has NVidia video, the one where it crashes has Intel > video. Hugin is multiplatform (Linux, Windows, OS X) and has more > developers, but even they're having problems keeping the OS X release > up-to-date. > > Sorry, doesn't help the problem of audio software and hardware. Have a > friend who has tried 3 different hardware systems and 2 different > versions of Windows (XP and 7) trying to get his commercial pro audio > software to work reliably. He's about given up. > > I've had some success using live Linux audio distros like Musix on > different hardware (including one of the systems my friend's commercial > pro audio software had problems with). I think Musix is created by > educators, perhaps they could work with you to produce a live CD/DVD > that would allow students to boot their home computers and work and save > things onto a thumb drive that they could take back and forth between > home and school? > > -- > David > gn...@hawaii.rr.com > authenticity, honesty, community > http://clanjones.org/david/ > http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/ > > > -- > Live Security Virtual Conference > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ > ___ > Rosegarden-user mailing list > Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user > -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] [Rosegarden-devel] Fwd: Rosegarden's Future
On 05/17/2012 12:33 PM, jimmy wrote: >> On 05/17/2012 02:26 AM, David Tisdell wrote: >> >>> I hear you but as a music teacher and music software >> evangelist, it is >>> huge when I can push an app that runs on multiple >> platforms to an >>> education audience. I do all of my most important audio >> work in Linux [snips] > Different platforms will have multitude of problems relating to > testing, different versions of libraries, drivers, software... I use a panorama creator called Hugin. I use Debian Sid on 2 different machines, identical distros, identical version of Hugin. On one machine, Hugin works flawlessly. On the other, Hugin silently dies whenever I attempt to preview a panorama. The difference? Display hardware! The one where it works has NVidia video, the one where it crashes has Intel video. Hugin is multiplatform (Linux, Windows, OS X) and has more developers, but even they're having problems keeping the OS X release up-to-date. Sorry, doesn't help the problem of audio software and hardware. Have a friend who has tried 3 different hardware systems and 2 different versions of Windows (XP and 7) trying to get his commercial pro audio software to work reliably. He's about given up. I've had some success using live Linux audio distros like Musix on different hardware (including one of the systems my friend's commercial pro audio software had problems with). I think Musix is created by educators, perhaps they could work with you to produce a live CD/DVD that would allow students to boot their home computers and work and save things onto a thumb drive that they could take back and forth between home and school? -- David gn...@hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://clanjones.org/david/ http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/ -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] [Rosegarden-devel] Fwd: Rosegarden's Future
> On 05/17/2012 02:26 AM, David Tisdell wrote: > > > I hear you but as a music teacher and music software > evangelist, it is > > huge when I can push an app that runs on multiple > platforms to an > > education audience. I do all of my most important audio > work in Linux I hear ya, but being short-handed as far as deverlopers to do the work, I think Rosegarden should concentrate on being "solidly good" at what it does, even just to maintain the current set of functionalities, rather than trying to do too much (multi-platform) and being mediocre at it. People who don't program for complex software projects for a long time don't know the countless problems that software developers have to deal with. Different platforms will have multitude of problems relating to testing, different versions of libraries, drivers, software... Even different Linux distros, or within the same distro have different library versions and quirks of their own already (Debian stable, testing, unstable...) Windows itself is not homogeneous as some marketing department wanted you to believe. Have you experience the numerous printers, scanners... which won't work? That's right, device drivers only work for specific releases of Windows (95, 98, Me, NT, 2000, XP, Vista, Win7, Win8). Some won't even work for different editions of the same Windows release (home, pro, multi-media, enterprise...) Some softwares may require specific service-pack or later for it to work, too. Watch out for the horrendous performance interference from various anti-malware, anti-virus softwares. Oh, yeah... There are numerous malwares that the anti-malware and anti-virus stuff won't even detect properly, let alone clean up. People who don't want to learn will readily make up all kind of excuses to avoid having to learn. Wait until they start using Rosegaden and complain that it doesn't work like FruitLoops, Cubebase, GarageBand, or whatever... The same way some people complain that LibreOffice, or OpenOffice doesn't look, or work like MS Office. Those people are more troublesome than it's worth to try to convince, or convert. Just let them go... If and when they are ready, they will find a way. Jimmy -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] [Rosegarden-devel] Fwd: Rosegarden's Future
On 05/16/2012 08:54 PM, Luis Garrido wrote: > On 05/17/2012 02:26 AM, David Tisdell wrote: > >> I hear you but as a music teacher and music software evangelist, it is >> huge when I can push an app that runs on multiple platforms to an >> education audience. I do all of my most important audio work in Linux > > > There's always the option of using one of the many audio-oriented live > CD/USB, like AV Linux: > > http://www.bandshed.net/AVLinux.html I prefer Musix 3 beta. Doesn't require PAE. PureDyne and dynebolic are still good, I think they've both been updated. > Then you are evangelizing open source as a whole. That's what I use when > I want to introduce someone to linux audio software. -- David gn...@hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://clanjones.org/david/ http://dancing-treefrog.deviantart.com/ -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] [Rosegarden-devel] Fwd: Rosegarden's Future
Yes I have used some of them and been frustrated with some of the problems you mention. In addition, there is a big performance hit when running off CD. I haven't kept up with the live versions. I used to use Dynebolic but it hasn't been updated in a very long time. I need to look at the latest ones. Dave On 5/17/12 2:54 AM, Luis Garrido wrote: > On 05/17/2012 02:26 AM, David Tisdell wrote: > >> I hear you but as a music teacher and music software evangelist, it is >> huge when I can push an app that runs on multiple platforms to an >> education audience. I do all of my most important audio work in Linux > > There's always the option of using one of the many audio-oriented live > CD/USB, like AV Linux: > > http://www.bandshed.net/AVLinux.html > > Then you are evangelizing open source as a whole. That's what I use when > I want to introduce someone to linux audio software. > > That said, live CDs are not without problems, mainly related to hardware > support: wifi interfaces, last generation video adapters or high-end > audio interfaces may not work out of the box. But overall they are a > good option. > > HTH, > > Luis > > > -- > Live Security Virtual Conference > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ > ___ > Rosegarden-user mailing list > Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user > -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] [Rosegarden-devel] Fwd: Rosegarden's Future
On 05/17/2012 02:26 AM, David Tisdell wrote: > I hear you but as a music teacher and music software evangelist, it is > huge when I can push an app that runs on multiple platforms to an > education audience. I do all of my most important audio work in Linux There's always the option of using one of the many audio-oriented live CD/USB, like AV Linux: http://www.bandshed.net/AVLinux.html Then you are evangelizing open source as a whole. That's what I use when I want to introduce someone to linux audio software. That said, live CDs are not without problems, mainly related to hardware support: wifi interfaces, last generation video adapters or high-end audio interfaces may not work out of the box. But overall they are a good option. HTH, Luis -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] [Rosegarden-devel] Fwd: Rosegarden's Future
Lorenzo and Chris, I hear you but as a music teacher and music software evangelist, it is huge when I can push an app that runs on multiple platforms to an education audience. I do all of my most important audio work in Linux because of Rosegarden and I don't see that changing after Windows and Mac ports exist but the fact that I can hand someone the app for their platform of choice and have them walk away from a workshop I have done being able to use it with students immediately is huge. I am versed enough in Windows and Mac OS that I can usually help them with any mulitplatform opensource music app that I use regularly. I use Rosegarden in my classroom to teach composition to middle school age students. I have a handful of kids that have Linux installed at home. For my Windows and Mac users, I usually have to hand them MuseScore which is a great notation program but just doesn't do things that Rosegarden does well. Dave On 5/16/12 3:30 PM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: > On 14/05/12 23:03, Chris Cannam wrote: >> On 13 May 2012 23:56, Cláudio Pinheiro wrote: >>> Rosegarden needs broad visibility by potential users, so it can generate a >>> critical mass that would attract developers that would maintain a sustained >>> growth and (even) better codebase and documentation. To achieve it >>> Rosegarden must walk the multiplatform path. It must be the top priority now >>> for the future's greater good. >> I appreciate this argument, and thank you for articulating it well. >> But I'm afraid I just don't see the evidence in other applications >> that broadening your user base, by porting to other platforms with a >> smaller proportion of developers, helps a great deal with development >> effort. > I agree with Chris. I will add that now a days installing a Linux > flavour is really easy, and personally Rosegarden (plus some other > software) together with the improved easiness of installing Linux was > the motive for me to get back to it and eventually switch, after hard > times trying to get it to work at the end of the 1990s. > That's to say I would stick and focus to Linux, and who knows this may > attract other users. > > My two cents. > Lorenzo. > > -- > Live Security Virtual Conference > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ > ___ > Rosegarden-user mailing list > Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user > -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] [Rosegarden-devel] Fwd: Rosegarden's Future
On 14/05/12 23:03, Chris Cannam wrote: > On 13 May 2012 23:56, Cláudio Pinheiro wrote: >> Rosegarden needs broad visibility by potential users, so it can generate a >> critical mass that would attract developers that would maintain a sustained >> growth and (even) better codebase and documentation. To achieve it >> Rosegarden must walk the multiplatform path. It must be the top priority now >> for the future's greater good. > > I appreciate this argument, and thank you for articulating it well. > But I'm afraid I just don't see the evidence in other applications > that broadening your user base, by porting to other platforms with a > smaller proportion of developers, helps a great deal with development > effort. I agree with Chris. I will add that now a days installing a Linux flavour is really easy, and personally Rosegarden (plus some other software) together with the improved easiness of installing Linux was the motive for me to get back to it and eventually switch, after hard times trying to get it to work at the end of the 1990s. That's to say I would stick and focus to Linux, and who knows this may attract other users. My two cents. Lorenzo. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] [Rosegarden-devel] Fwd: Rosegarden's Future
Ok well, I'm going to carry on occasionally merging from trunk as I wish and will pop out another Windows build at some point soon. For the moment, and to make it easier for me to manage, I've created a page: http://www.xyglo.com/rosegarden-for-windows/ I'll post announcements here and keep monitoring the usual lists but this is a bit easier for me. R -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] [Rosegarden-devel] Fwd: Rosegarden's Future
On Monday, May 14, 2012, Brett McCoy wrote: > ... If you create Windows versions of applications originally developed on > Linux, you have to do a lot of hand holding for those users to either help > them compile stuff, or be prepared for loud complaining because the Windows > support isn't as good as the Linux support (especially for development > branches). That's a perfect description of what we've already experienced some taste of with the Windows build. > Unfortunately, I think this gives some Windows users the impression > that the Linux developers are snobby, unhelpful and arrogant. I'm sure it does. For my part, it's some mixture of being totally ignorant of how to do anything on Windows, and totally unsympathetic to the Windows user who wants to whine about free-as-in-beer software. They're running Windows! All the best commercial stuff with years of professional development behind it is available for that platform. If they're cheap, that's not my problem. If they're broke, they should probably just switch to Linux, and their unwillingness to do that is not my problem. So maybe I am unhelpful, snobby, and arrogant. I just don't have any use for those people. I dealt with a lot of them when I was a Linux crusader, and I fart in their general direction. -- D. Michael McIntyre -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] [Rosegarden-devel] Fwd: Rosegarden's Future
On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Chris Cannam wrote: > On 13 May 2012 23:56, Cláudio Pinheiro wrote: >> Rosegarden needs broad visibility by potential users, so it can generate a >> critical mass that would attract developers that would maintain a sustained >> growth and (even) better codebase and documentation. To achieve it >> Rosegarden must walk the multiplatform path. It must be the top priority now >> for the future's greater good. > > I appreciate this argument, and thank you for articulating it well. > But I'm afraid I just don't see the evidence in other applications > that broadening your user base, by porting to other platforms with a > smaller proportion of developers, helps a great deal with development > effort. One thing I have noticed in the development of digital painting applications like MyPaint and Krita (two other of my favorite Linux apps, along with Rosegarden & Ardour!), is that if you create Windows versions of applications originally developed on Linux, you have to do a lot of hand holding for those users to either help them compile stuff, or be prepared for loud complaining because the Windows support isn't as good as the Linux support (especially for development branches). Windows users especially don't quite seem to get the open source development model (all they see if "free software that I don't have to pirate!"). Unless there are dedicated Windows developers to a project, Windows support will flounder until someone gets around to fixing bugs or building a new version (funny how the users who complain the most don't seem to want to volunteer their time to help). Unfortunately, I think this gives some Windows users the impression that the Linux developers are snobby, unhelpful and arrogant. BTW, I was happy to see the new Rosegarden announced in the latest KVR newsletter today! -- Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com "In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it, it would overturn the world." -- Jelaleddin Rumi -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
Re: [Rosegarden-user] [Rosegarden-devel] Fwd: Rosegarden's Future
On 13 May 2012 23:56, Cláudio Pinheiro wrote: > Rosegarden needs broad visibility by potential users, so it can generate a > critical mass that would attract developers that would maintain a sustained > growth and (even) better codebase and documentation. To achieve it > Rosegarden must walk the multiplatform path. It must be the top priority now > for the future's greater good. I appreciate this argument, and thank you for articulating it well. But I'm afraid I just don't see the evidence in other applications that broadening your user base, by porting to other platforms with a smaller proportion of developers, helps a great deal with development effort. I think that the difference between Mixxx and Rosegarden is something else. It's focus. Mixxx has a very clear purpose, every developer has pretty much the same focus, and every developer is able to exercise that purpose very clearly in testing the application. So although Mixxx has about the same number of active developers as Rosegarden, they're able to pull it along more efficiently because it's a simpler and smaller application with a much clearer goal. Compare this with Audacity, perhaps the world's most widely-used audio application -- inching along much like Rosegarden does, with a similarly-sized developer team who spend most of their time integrating occasional external contributions and trying to fix the bugs those contributions bring in. Their wider user base gives them a lot more tricky single-platform bug reports and causes years of delays to stable releases. Or the Gimp, spending the last four years on a bunch of changes finally released to a collective response of "is that _it_ for the last four years?" (and I'm sympathetic, but it's true that almost every change in Gimp 2.8 seems to make my life more difficult instead of easier). Or Ardour, a fine application perhaps unique among these in having had a developer working full time on it for many years, but again with only two or three really active developers and not an enormous amount of visibility. No, most of the cross-platform projects are more like Rosegarden than like Mixxx. Chris -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Rosegarden-user mailing list Rosegarden-user@lists.sourceforge.net - use the link below to unsubscribe https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/rosegarden-user
