Re: [silk] Illustrated Coffee Guide
On 8/27/07, Sriram Karra [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hotel Saravana Bhavan I'm partial to Airlines myself. But only in the mornings.
Re: [silk] Illustrated Coffee Guide
On 8/27/07, Venkat Mangudi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.lokeshdhakar.com/2007/08/20/an-illustrated-coffee-guide/ I wish all the baristas in the cafes in the US educated themselves at least minimally from this site. It might not be a gourmet coffee drinker's definitions, but surely better than what most of the baristas dole out. Many of them just throw some espresso after they put the milk/foam into the cup. I have so far been impressed with the baristas in the cafes in Bangalore. Most of them know how to prepare a good latte or cappucino. You have got to be kidding. The only good cappuchino I've had in Bangalore have been the ones I've pulled myself. There is no place in Bangalore that can compare to any of the serious cafes in the US. Can you imagine going into a cafe here and asking for a double ristretto? When I asked for a double ristretto at Ritual Roasters in San Francisco, the barrista said somewhat haughtily All of our espressos are double ristrettos. That's all we pull. Well excuuuse me. That said, I don't think I've seen a single E-91 group head in all Bangalore. It's a wasteland of super-automatic pushbuttons. I'd be happy if I got a place that ground the beans on the spot and tamped by hand. Though nothing has been as bad as the espresso I got at the Oberoi sunday brunch. It was undrinkable. So Venky, this is a throw down. Where do you think you can get a good espresso in Bangalore. I'll meet you there. -- Charles
Re: [silk] Illustrated Coffee Guide
I remember when I was a kid, which is also when many of you were kids, the 'espresso' we'd get out of machines in India would be this terrible, milky contraption. And I remember a scene at a Barista around the time when it opened when someone ordered an espresso and was most upset that there was no milk in it. I think that's why they warn. I don't imagine they'll still be warning five years later, when the memory of that 'espresso' fades, unless that warning remains as a meme which lasts after its original purpose has become redundant. -- Amit Varma http://www.indiauncut.com
Re: [silk] Illustrated Coffee Guide
On 8/27/07, Amit Varma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I remember when I was a kid, which is also when many of you were kids, the 'espresso' we'd get out of machines in India would be this terrible, milky contraption. Were these those red and gold/silver machines with a prominent spout on one side? I remember seeing them at movie theaters, many moons ago, but cannot recall the brand/trade names of those machines. Anyone?
Re: [silk] Illustrated Coffee Guide
Were these those red and gold/silver machines with a prominent spout on one side? I remember seeing them at movie theaters, many moons ago, but cannot recall the brand/trade names of those machines. Can't remember brand name, but I do remember the spout. Suitably phallic, given the horrid taste of what came out of it. -- Amit Varma http://www.indiauncut.com
Re: [silk] Illustrated Coffee Guide
On 8/27/07, Sriram Karra [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 8/27/07, Gautam John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What do you reckon is the best coffee chain in Bangalore/India. Or Hotel Saravana Bhavan might not be as hep, cool, or rocking as the coffee shops mentiond in this thread. However, if the objective is to seek out a place which knows the most effective way to deliver the right dosage of caffeine in a coffee cup (davara and tumbler, in this case), let it be known that HSB has few peers. And talking of confusing menus - the HSB coffee list has two items - Coffee, and Mini Coffee. Beat that. I have to admit there isn't much to beat a good South Indian filter coffee. This may get me excommunicated but I also think that, in general, you get better coffee in Madras than Bangalore. -- b
Re: [silk] Illustrated Coffee Guide
Yup. But that should be no surprise, no? C On 27/08/07, Biju Chacko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 8/27/07, Sriram Karra [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 8/27/07, Gautam John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What do you reckon is the best coffee chain in Bangalore/India. Or Hotel Saravana Bhavan might not be as hep, cool, or rocking as the coffee shops mentiond in this thread. However, if the objective is to seek out a place which knows the most effective way to deliver the right dosage of caffeine in a coffee cup (davara and tumbler, in this case), let it be known that HSB has few peers. And talking of confusing menus - the HSB coffee list has two items - Coffee, and Mini Coffee. Beat that. I have to admit there isn't much to beat a good South Indian filter coffee. This may get me excommunicated but I also think that, in general, you get better coffee in Madras than Bangalore. -- b -- http://www.flickr.com/photos/ravages http://www.selectiveamnesia.org/ http://chennai.metblogs.com +91-9884467463
Re: [silk] In BLR for a week
Biju Chacko wrote: I'm up for lunch in the Indiranagar/Airport Rd Area. Count me in for lunch. Wednesdays, though, are out... Vh
Re: [silk] Illustrated Coffee Guide
Biju Chacko wrote: I have to admit there isn't much to beat a good South Indian filter coffee. This may get me excommunicated but I also think that, in general, you get better coffee in Madras than Bangalore. I agree with the former statement. But Kalmane coffee's Bluegrass by the cup rocks... Their Nelyani is just Bluegrass with Elaichi powder. But please avoid the outlet in Innovative multiplex. Once someone not in the know asked the waiter what is good, and he said Cappuccino without batting an eyelid. I promptly told the patron to order bluegrass. Wonder why these guys don't take pride in their best product.
Re: [silk] Illustrated Coffee Guide
Charles Haynes wrote: So Venky, this is a throw down. Where do you think you can get a good espresso in Bangalore. I'll meet you there. That's Venki, not Venky. And I think that the best espresso is probably at your place and I will meet you there before you become a non-resident. :-) My statement was just a comparison of the Bangalore coffee shops with the Starbucks, Javacity etc outlets in the US. Those baristas just foam milk, put it in a cup and add espresso afterwards. No amount of telling them that espresso comes first made any difference, even when you are a regular. Some of them looked at me like I was an alien, which I was in the US. :-)
Re: [silk] Illustrated Coffee Guide
Amit Varma wrote: Were these those red and gold/silver machines with a prominent spout on one side? I remember seeing them at movie theaters, many moons ago, but cannot recall the brand/trade names of those machines. Can't remember brand name, but I do remember the spout. Suitably phallic, given the horrid taste of what came out of it. I remember them too. It said espresso in cursive writing and used to dole out a concoction that tasted horrible.
Re: [silk] Illustrated Coffee Guide
On 8/27/07, Venkat Mangudi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's Venki, not Venky. y the y ? ! the i ? -- Vinayak
Re: [silk] Illustrated Coffee Guide
Venkat Mangudi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree with the former statement. But Kalmane coffee's Bluegrass by the cup rocks... Their Nelyani is just Bluegrass with Elaichi powder. But please avoid the outlet in Innovative multiplex. Oxford Bookshop in Madras (haddows road) has a surprisingly good selection of teas (lapsang souchong / oolong etc + single source indian teas and coffees). And their wraps are surprisingly tasty too. Certainly priced competitively wrt coffee day / barista etc - I got a achari paneer (spicy cottage cheese + onions + other stuff) wrap + a pot of lapsang souchong for around 160 or so. They know how to serve such tea too - pretty decent china bowl and teapot. Then there's a chain called cup and saucer (attached to another chain called nuts and spices, that sells well... nuts, spices + stuff like imported pasta, instant coffee, cookies etc), also surprisingly good for tea.
Re: [silk] Illustrated Coffee Guide
Cups Saucer has weird furniture. Much too small. Or, well, I'm much too big. Talking of coffee shops in Madras, I'll vouch for Amethyst. They brew good stuff there. C On 27/08/07, Suresh Ramasubramanian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Venkat Mangudi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree with the former statement. But Kalmane coffee's Bluegrass by the cup rocks... Their Nelyani is just Bluegrass with Elaichi powder. But please avoid the outlet in Innovative multiplex. Oxford Bookshop in Madras (haddows road) has a surprisingly good selection of teas (lapsang souchong / oolong etc + single source indian teas and coffees). And their wraps are surprisingly tasty too. Certainly priced competitively wrt coffee day / barista etc - I got a achari paneer (spicy cottage cheese + onions + other stuff) wrap + a pot of lapsang souchong for around 160 or so. They know how to serve such tea too - pretty decent china bowl and teapot. Then there's a chain called cup and saucer (attached to another chain called nuts and spices, that sells well... nuts, spices + stuff like imported pasta, instant coffee, cookies etc), also surprisingly good for tea. -- http://www.flickr.com/photos/ravages http://www.selectiveamnesia.org/ http://chennai.metblogs.com +91-9884467463
Re: [silk] Illustrated Coffee Guide
On 8/27/07, Chandrachoodan Gopalakrishnan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: While on the subject of coffee, I thought I'd share this wonderful method of making iced coffee. It's a very smooth and non-bitter brew. Quite different from the hot brewed stuff. http://technically.us/eat/x/cold-brewed-iced-coffee
Re: [silk] Illustrated Coffee Guide
I believe that I can make Mysooru coffee that tastes a lot better than any of the coffees illustrated in that link and does not have an unpronounceable foreign name. shiv On Monday 27 Aug 2007 10:48 am, Venkat Mangudi wrote: http://www.lokeshdhakar.com/2007/08/20/an-illustrated-coffee-guide/ I wish all the baristas in the cafes in the US educated themselves at least minimally from this site. It might not be a gourmet coffee drinker's definitions, but surely better than what most of the baristas dole out. Many of them just throw some espresso after they put the milk/foam into the cup. I have so far been impressed with the baristas in the cafes in Bangalore. Most of them know how to prepare a good latte or cappucino. Venki - the original
Re: [silk] Illustrated Coffee Guide
On 8/27/07, Venkat Mangudi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Charles Haynes wrote: So Venky, this is a throw down. Where do you think you can get a good espresso in Bangalore. I'll meet you there. That's Venki, not Venky. And I think that the best espresso is probably at your place and I will meet you there before you become a non-resident. :-) Oops! Sorry. At my place is only my super-automatic. The cappucino I make is actually at work when I can convince the helpers not to helpfully pre-grind a hopper full of coffee. I've finally got the machine calibrated to get the grind to the point where a properly dosed double shot takes 27 seconds to pull. I haven't done anything tweakish like add a PID to the boiler or measure the brewhead pressure, so this is merely an adequate shot, nothing godlike. :) My statement was just a comparison of the Bangalore coffee shops with the Starbucks, Javacity etc outlets in the US. Ew. Yeah, standard commercial chain coffee sucks in both the US and here. Those baristas just foam milk, put it in a cup and add espresso afterwards. No amount of telling them that espresso comes first made any difference, even when you are a regular. Some of them looked at me like I was an alien, which I was in the US. :-) Hah. I once ordered a cafe macchiato in one of those Starbucks inspired places. Not only did they foam the milk first, they filled the cup with milk then added the espresso. I handed it back in horror and said this is not a cafe macchiato. A cafe macciato is an espresso with just a tiny bit of foam on top. The 'barrista' replied not here. I said Well, that's what it is in an Italian cafe, so I guess I'll have to get my coffee 'not here.' -- Charles
Re: [silk] Illustrated Coffee Guide
Charles Haynes wrote: Oops! Sorry. At my place is only my super-automatic. The cappucino I make is actually at work when I can convince the helpers not to helpfully pre-grind a hopper full of coffee. I've finally got the So I guess I will have to meet you officially... ;) tweakish like add a PID to the boiler or measure the brewhead pressure, so this is merely an adequate shot, nothing godlike. :) If I were one who knew how to do that, or had done it in the past, I would have bought me a good machine... Oracle had some really good machines in its corporate offices in Redwood Shores... Hah. I once ordered a cafe macchiato in one of those Starbucks The best machiatto I have ever had is in Venice. Stepped into a roadside cafe at about 7 a.m. on the Lido island... Never had a comparable espresso after... I wonder what they use in the Bangalore coffee shops... The espresso is just too horrible... A latte/capuccino is bearable. At least they add the espresso, milk and foam in the right order. Oh, almost forgot the dancing coffee in KGA. Don't know what they do, but the coffee, served in a tall glass, is still making waves as it is served. Anybody know how this is achieved?
Re: [silk] Illustrated Coffee Guide
shiv sastry wrote: I believe that I can make Mysooru coffee that tastes a lot better than any of the coffees illustrated in that link and does not have an unpronounceable foreign name. A good filter coffee is hard to come by these days... Have you tried any of the fresh roasted and ground coffees from Kalmane?
Re: [silk] Illustrated Coffee Guide
On Monday 27 Aug 2007 7:49 pm, Venkat Mangudi wrote: A good filter coffee is hard to come by these days... Have you tried any of the fresh roasted and ground coffees from Kalmane? I currently use Kalmane's Mysore nuggets which is delivered home when I call and ask. shiv
Re: [silk] Illustrated Coffee Guide
On 8/26/07, Gautam John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What do you reckon is the best coffee chain in Bangalore/India. Or perhaps even the best stand alone coffee bar in Bangalore? Those street corner kaapi kadai, of course! Thaths -- Homer: He has all the money in the world, but there's one thing he can't buy. Marge: What's that? Homer: (pause) A dinosaur. -- Homer J. Simpson Sudhakar ChandraSlacker Without Borders
Re: [silk] Illustrated Coffee Guide
shiv sastry wrote: I currently use Kalmane's Mysore nuggets which is delivered home when I call and ask. Nice choice... Very good coffee...
[silk] A question on Salt (NaCl)
I have a quick question for the hive mind. I have just tasted two brands of salt, salt being NaCl. One is made by concentrating and crystallizing salt water under vacuum (hence a faster process) and one is made the traditional way (sunshine/firewood under a pan and hence a slower process). Now when I tasted two salts (applied to a moderately wet substrate, not water), I find that the former is saltier than the latter even though they have pretty much identical NaCl percentages. My explanation is that the former has a smaller crystalline structure (because of the method of crystallization) while the latter has a bigger crystal lattice and hence this affects the rate of solubility, it being higher in the former. However, they both have identical particle sizes but I believe that particle size is not an indicator of the density of crystal structure within. Am I way of base here? In any of my assumptions and conclusions? I'm playing fast and loose with 'scientific terms' here. Excuse my ineptness.
Re: [silk] Illustrated Coffee Guide
On 8/27/07, Chandrachoodan Gopalakrishnan wrote: Talking of coffee shops in Madras, I'll vouch for Amethyst. They brew good stuff there. C there is also this idli-dosa joint in raja annamalai puram (its part of some bigger chainforgot the name), they make very good kumbakonam degree coffee (as close to the stuff from kumbakonam as it gets...)
Re: [silk] Illustrated Coffee Guide
On 8/27/07, Biju Chacko [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 8/27/07, Sriram Karra [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 8/27/07, Gautam John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What do you reckon is the best coffee chain in Bangalore/India. Or Hotel Saravana Bhavan might not be as hep, cool, or rocking as the coffee shops mentiond in this thread. However, if the objective is to seek out a place which knows the most effective way to deliver the right dosage of caffeine in a coffee cup (davara and tumbler, in this case), let it be known that HSB has few peers. And talking of confusing menus - the HSB coffee list has two items - Coffee, and Mini Coffee. Beat that. I have to admit there isn't much to beat a good South Indian filter coffee. This may get me excommunicated but I also think that, in general, you get better coffee in Madras than Bangalore. Chicory laden south Indian coffee is not gourmet coffee by a long shot. Too sweet and too milky, I mostly swore off that stuff a long while ago. It was probably as good as it got for me when all I had for comparison was the awful nastiness of nescafe, bru and the cinema espressos. Quite often we had no clue what went into the coffee powder, coming from a Leo or Narasus coffee chain, you were lucky if there were any real coffee beans in it. I still like the coffee my mother makes, but I think it has more to do with memories of growing up with it, than any gourmet factor. Once I got a taste of rich and fruity Java Kenyan beans and the intricacies of coffee making I was not going back to Narasus. It turned out to be too much of a good thing, I developed a caffeine addiction, and I had to painfully wean myself off caffeine, dropping down to a normal one or two cups a day. Since moving back to India I've had to do with local peaberry and robusta. Most Indian plantations don't seem to grow any other varieties. I grew up in the hills, where I used to harvest coffee beans from our home garden and help out in getting them dried, roasted and brewed. Now that was exciting, but I am not sure if it ever could be termed gourmet coffee. Unlike Charles, I gave up on convincing the kitchen staff at work to not pre-grind ginormous quantities of the beans every morning. Anyway, I don't much like the beans that are used at work; I've turned to drinking more chai these days. I get my beans from Coffee Day ground in my presence. My apartment is right next door to one of their stores, I usually buy a week's supply at a time. Cheeni
Re: [silk] Illustrated Coffee Guide
On Tue, Aug 28, 2007 at 12:40:50AM +0530, Srini Ramakrishnan wrote: I grew up in the hills, where I used to harvest coffee beans from our home garden and help out in getting them dried, roasted and brewed. Now that was exciting, but I am not sure if it ever could be termed gourmet coffee. You could have started a farm of Paradoxurus hermaphroditus, and grew rich. Unlike Charles, I gave up on convincing the kitchen staff at work to not pre-grind ginormous quantities of the beans every morning. Anyway, I don't much like the beans that are used at work; I've turned to drinking more chai these days. Interestingly enough, in Russia chai refers to the common tea, usually brewed very strong in tiny pots, held warm on top of samowars, from which hot water to dilute it issues. The stuff they sell as chai is California is truly vile, and I had to spit it out. I get my beans from Coffee Day ground in my presence. My apartment is right next door to one of their stores, I usually buy a week's supply at a time. I used to be an FTGFOP Darjeeling addict, but I can't drink anything else than green tea (aromatized with lemons/lemon grass, ick) these days. The bitterer, the betterer. -- Eugen* Leitl a href=http://leitl.org;leitl/a http://leitl.org __ ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
Re: [silk] A question on Salt (NaCl)
Gautam John [27/08/07 22:56 +0530]: My explanation is that the former has a smaller crystalline structure (because of the method of crystallization) while the latter has a bigger crystal lattice and hence this affects the rate of solubility, it being higher in the former. Crystal shape is generally quite important when determining solubility Did you observe these two over a comparison microscope and see any obvious differences in shape?
Re: [silk] Illustrated Coffee Guide
On Tuesday 28 Aug 2007 12:40 am, Srini Ramakrishnan wrote: Chicory laden south Indian coffee Not all South Indian coffee is chicory laden. The effect achieved by one's just like another chain outlets is to kill variation in favor of promoting brand names that taste like mud. Like someone said a lot of coffee does taste like mud - because it's ground. Apart from the quality of the beans, the actual coffee extract is highly temperature dependent with the volatiles apparently being ideally extracted at about 87 to 90 deg C. Lower or higher temperatures extract other volatiles in greater proportions changing the taste. For me personally - I have found that the best coffees get made using certain equipment. Standard filters (manual or electric) are the worst if you are stingy in the amount of coffee you load into them, and there can be a lot of variation unless you are careful. They work out more expensive in the long run. Italian Neapolitana filters that require manual inversion after the water boils are among the best. Probably in between are the Expresso coffee makers - either the manual (twin truncated cone) type or the electric one that I currently use. For Mysore coffee the steam outlet is best reserved for simply letting out steam and depressurizing the boiler and nothing else. It's an otherwise useless appendage. However, froth created by pouring the coffee from one container to another has useful flavor enhancing properties. The quality of milk too is important for Mysooru coffee - and ideally it should be boiled beforehand, and preheated milk added to hot coffee decoction. Reheated coffee is a disaster. shiv
Re: [silk] A question on Salt (NaCl)
On 8/27/07, Gautam John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One is made by concentrating and crystallizing salt water under vacuum (hence a faster process) and one is made the traditional way (sunshine/firewood under a pan and hence a slower process). Now when I tasted two salts (applied to a moderately wet substrate, not water), I find that the former is saltier than the latter even though they have pretty much identical NaCl percentages. I suspect that it may be because in the latter process some of the trace chemicals found in naturally occurring salt water have evaporated or somehow been altered by the heat. I suspect that presence of these other compounds in the vacuum concentration / crystallization that makes the former saltier (and possibly tastier). Thaths -- Homer: He has all the money in the world, but there's one thing he can't buy. Marge: What's that? Homer: (pause) A dinosaur. -- Homer J. Simpson Sudhakar ChandraSlacker Without Borders
Re: [silk] A question on Salt (NaCl)
On 8/28/07, Gautam John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 8/28/07, Charles Haynes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Salt is salt. Fuck you. Exactly why I find this difference all the more curious. The salts are near identical in terms of particle size, purity and NaCl content. More seriously. If you are really curious do a double blind or ABX test. This was the result of a double blind test. But the salts weren't tasted plain. They were on a moderately wet substrate, like a slice of tomato. Yes, we did it multiple times to compensate for the variation in the substrate. Hm. Sounds pretty variable. I suspect you need to reduce the variables. -- Charles
Re: [silk] Illustrated Coffee Guide
On 8/28/07, Srini Ramakrishnan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chicory laden south Indian coffee is not gourmet coffee by a long shot. Too sweet and too milky, I mostly swore off that stuff a long while ago. It was probably as good as it got for me when all I had for I think we've already established on this thread that you can screw up pretty much any style of coffee. South Indian filter coffee may not be a gourmet coffee but to my palate at least, when done well, it tastes as good (if not better) than anything with an Italian name. -- b
Re: [silk] A question on Salt (NaCl)
On 8/28/07, Charles Haynes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Salt is salt. Fuck you. Exactly why I find this difference all the more curious. The salts are near identical in terms of particle size, purity and NaCl content. More seriously. If you are really curious do a double blind or ABX test. This was the result of a double blind test. But the salts weren't tasted plain. They were on a moderately wet substrate, like a slice of tomato. Yes, we did it multiple times to compensate for the variation in the substrate.
[silk] ACLE
Apparently they're serious. The great tax heist: Patil appeals to Prez DH News Service, Bangalore: Leader of the Opposition in the Legislative Council H K Patil has urged President Pratibha Patil to take the opinion of the Supreme Court on whether Artificially Created Light Energy (ACLE) can be considered as goods or not, so that tax can be levied on companies using this energy. Addressing reporters in Bangalore, he alleged that the corporate companies using ACLE for information transformation have evaded tax to the tune of Rs 1,20,000 crore to state governments. ACLE, according to Mr Patil, is one of the goods that attract tax. These companies, therefore, should pay sales tax to the respective state governments. But none them is doing so, he argued. He said the President can take the apex court opinion on the issue under Article 143(1) of the Constitution and such an opinion will be binding on all states. Mr Patil, in his 313-page memorandum submitted to the President, has put forth his argument to prove ACLE as one of the goods. According to him, ACLE works on the lines of electricity, which comes under Karnataka Sales Tax Act. The only difference is that the latter works through electron, while the former works through proton. Hence, ACLE has all the features to be considered one of the goods, he stated. IT companies transmit data or information that they develop for their customers using ACLE provided by Internet Service Provider (ISP). But neither ISP nor these companies has paid a single paise as tax for using ACLE so far. The State government, therefore, has incurred a loss of nearly Rs 8,000 crore, he stated. The Congress leader said that Deputy Chief Minister B S Yediyurappa had during the last Assembly session assured to take appropriate steps to plug the leakage. What is ACLE? As the name implies, this energy is artificially created by an Optic Fibre Cable (OFC) network owner using electrical energy as input. ACLE is created by the Laser Device (LD) or Light Emitting Diode (LED) sources. While LD sources generate single frequency energy, LED sources generate frequencies in the range of 1,300 to 1,550 nm (nanometers). Such ACLE alone has the properties to carry the data or information from one place to another through OFC. http://www.deccanherald.com/Content/Aug282007/scroll2007082821906.asp?section=updatenews
