One more thing, make sure that your churn pressure on the pump plus
the elevation gain going down the two levels does not exceed 175 psi.
This may be the pressure the system feels when the system first trips
(or in the case of an accidental trip)
At 11:17 AM 1/31/2008, you wrote:
Hi All,
Is there a backflow involved for this system???
Matt
Matthew J. Willis
Living Water Fire Protection, LLC.
1160 McKenzie Rd.
PO Box 877
Cantonment, FL. 32533
850-937-1850 Voice
850-937-1852 Facsimile
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- -Original Message-
- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
Here is another inspection story. I was waiting for an inspection on a UL
300 fire suppression system, and the inspector was late. When he showed up,
he was in a bad mood. He had just been on a fire alarm test and the stupid
contractor did not know how to hydro the fire alarm panel.
Dears friends Craig, Travis, Kurt Todd,
Many thanks for your detailed answer, your answers were very helpful,.
I will use the sprinkler piping for my fire hoses to save some pipe, after
calculation, the water velocity in piping is about 20 ft/s and the capacity of
sprinkler piping in each
I've never heard of a hydrostatic test on a fire alarm panel. I'm thinking 200
psi of water pressure might damage the panel.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of douglas hicks
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 9:43 AM
To:
Mike,
Thanks for your kind email, I would be very grateful if you send it to me, it
is a real pleasure to have help from an expert in Reliable Sprinkler. Please
send to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thanks,
Reza
Mike Brown (TECH- GVL) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If you would like one I will send you a
Is there a code requirement to provide hose valves in a parking garage in a
2-story?
Would it make sense to toss em in the stairs and connect only to an FDC to
effect a dry standpipe ?
FDT water delivery would answer your question on how long it will take to
trip/fill/and spurt water outa the
Just to add to the madness, we have a reviewer in Virginia asking for a
second backflow at the riser inside the building per plumbing code. There is
already one in the underground run-in right outside. No, there is no
plumbing coming off of the run-in. How do you educate someone like this? It
must
If you would like one I will send you a copy of my Rules of Thumb for
designing large dry systems. You can contact me off line at
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
MLB
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Reza
Esmaeili
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 11:17
Yes and expansion chamber as well
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew J.
Willis
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 7:52 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Anti freeze leaking
Is there a backflow involved for this
But what do I do with those 460 panels? Wood ya think I might be needin
too pumps?
Craig L. Prahl, CET
Fire Protection Group
Mechanical Department
CH2MHILL
Lockwood Greene
1500 International Drive
PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491
Direct - 864.599.4102
Fax - 864.599.8439
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
We can assume then it is properly sized? How about a hole in the check
valve (if provided)? Is this a steel or plastic job? If this is plastic,
what kind of anti-freeze?
R/
Matt
Matthew J. Willis
Living Water Fire Protection, LLC.
1160 McKenzie Rd.
PO Box 877
Cantonment, FL. 32533
Larger is better when it comes to getting the air out. I would not use
any 2.8K heads. Work with your pipe sizes on the branch lines to consume
some of the extra pressure and if it is still too high and beyond
reason due to the higher pressure needed for the hose, you may have to
run separate
Forumites:
It's not often that we all get to see the fruits of our labors.
In 1986 I designed a dry pipe system for a 7-8 level parking garage for a
high riser building. 14 years later I had an NSPE state convention,
which my Piedmont Chapter was sponsoring. While there a car caught fire
Consider low pressure DPVs if you have no way to determine trip time
(the expensive program). low pressure DPVs work on about a 30:1
differential rather than the more typical 6:1.
On Feb 1, 2008 7:06 AM, George Church [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Is there a code requirement to provide hose valves in
Thanks Craig,
As I am connecting fire hoses to my sprinkler system, then the system
pressure would be high to comply with NFPA-14 minimum residual pressure
requirements at the outlet of most remote 1 1/2 in. hose station which is 65
psi. In this case my fire pump minimum head would be around
I believe NFPA 13 allows the use of small orifice sprinklers on light hazard,
wet systems only.
Salvatore Izzo, P.E.
Relible Automatic Sprinkler Company, Inc.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Reza Esmaeili
Sent: Fri 2/1/2008 10:48
To:
I think you only hydro High Voltage panels, not the typical low voltage used
today. The high voltage can withstand the 200 psi; 270 PSI if it's a 220
volt panel, 50 PSI over the normal working voltage.
I don't blame you for not asking any questions.but a high-pressure air
test would be far
Reza,
Be careful when you start selecting low K-factor sprinklers just because
the numbers work. Contrary to what you might infer from some standards,
density is not a direct measure of sprinkler performance. A 0.25
density from a K5.6 sprinkler is much less effective than from a K11.2
Reza:
If the building code requires standpipes in this building, you may not supply
the hose connections directly off the sprinkler mains. There is a distinct
difference between a standpipe system and small hose connections as might be
found in a storage occupancy.
Sent from my Verizon
Per NFPA 13 2002 section 8.16.5.1.3 Hose connections are to be connected to
wet systems only. This is due to time delay of dry system. Fire fighter is
holding a hose with 100 psi air blowing out and no water till system fills -
bad idea. Also unless code required does not require NFPA 14 rules.
I'm still wondering why the dry-pipe sprinkler system needs to feed a small
hose station with 65 PSI in a 2-story parking garage.
Are you trying to balance the hose and sprinklers? Do you even need the
hose, and wouldn't the pumper truck furnish the hose demand pressure
requirements?
Note to
Hello all,
To put fuel on a fire so to say The Electrician had disconnected
the air compressor on Friday for this dry system to install a proper
Disconnect (I raised hades about the light Switch). Well our crew
had left for the day and the electrician did not finish the disconnect.
We
The fire can be in any of the three buildings. If I am standing in a corridor
by a horizontal exit and hear the alarm, I look up at the exit sign and go
through that exit. That exit sign just told me I was going to a safe place.
It can very well send me into the fire area.
Ed Vining
4819
Each building should be on a zone. Each building should have its own
fire alarm panel. Separate buildings, separate systems. However, new
language in NFPA 13 was added to allow one building to feed another
building within certain guidelines.
Hope this helps,
John
John August Denhardt, P.E.
I get e-mail from a firesprinkler.org, giving me a URL to visit for
customizing my subscription info. I've always deleted them. Any others
receiving it? Is it legitimate?
Tony
___
Sprinklerforum mailing list
Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Craig,
Call me and let me know when you do this. I'm gonna set up across the
street with a lawn chair and a six pack and watch the explosion.
Todd
At 10:13 AM 2/1/2008, you wrote:
But what do I do with those 460 panels? Wood ya think I might be needin
too pumps?
Craig L. Prahl, CET
Fire
Reza,
If it doesn't work and you have to install two extra dry valves, that
would most likely be a very expensive operation. Is it worth the
chance? As Clint Eastwood once said, Do you feel lucky?
Todd
At 09:40 AM 2/1/2008, you wrote:
Dears friends Craig, Travis, Kurt Todd,
Many
I get em' an delete em' too
Brian Harris
FDFP INC.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of A.P.Silva
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 11:26 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: Firesprinkler.org
I get e-mail from a
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles
Thurston
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 11:13 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: Re[2]: Funny - or not - inspection story.
Hello all,
To put fuel on a fire so to say The
How accurate is the FDT program based on comparison to field tests?
At 11:27 AM 2/1/2008, you wrote:
Reza:
As Ron points out the FDT program is expensive, but you may actually
save the cost of the program in this one installation if you can
reduce from 4 dry systems to just 2. We all need
Legitimate?
It's the AFSA that hosts it.
Since we members fund this whole thing, they don't ask for your credit card
or mother's maiden name.
Yes, its legitimate, self-explanatory, and helpful if you need the current
passwords for any of the Lists. This is just one of several the AFSA runs in
Dave,
I would see exactly what anti-freeze was used and look for a chemical
compatibility problem. Where was it leaking? Steel fittings? Gasketed
fittings? Pin-holes in pipe?
Todd
At 01:02 PM 2/1/2008, you wrote:
It's steel and with the expansion chamber and backflow no hole is required.
://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
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http://www.eset.com
I have NEVER seen Jim this quiet EVER.
LOL
glc
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Smyrl
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 12:18 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: Re[2]: Funny - or not - inspection story.
-Original
It's steel and with the expansion chamber and backflow no hole is required.
There has not been any pressure build-up noticed.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew J.
Willis
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 8:46 AM
To:
FDT is the base program for the Quell systems and the accuracy is right on!
(Tyco put a lot into this programs development, and studied a lot of
existing systems and ran comparisons to actual.)
Thom McMahon
Firetech, Inc.
2560 Copper Ridge Dr
Steamboat Springs, CO 80488-2136
Tel: 970-879-7952
Dave,
I was told by our labor sup some time ago that we were having the same
problem. I know the topic of viscosity came up. Not sure if that is
valid or not as it seems that water would have a low viscosity and it
doesn't seem that a water antifreeze mix would be lower as it seems that
this
Reza
Take a look at your available pressure and choke down your branch line
sizes and look at your cross main and feed main sizes as well. If you
can reduce them this makes the system volume less as well as makes the
system more economical. If you have a lot of pressure and the structure
will
Most, if not all, anti-freezes used in fire protection have wetting
agents in them. This is like detergent added to water and breaks down
surface tension. Although the solution will seem more viscose the
individual molecules will be more slippery and be better able to
escape.
On Feb 1, 2008 11:45
FDT Software $5,000
Vehicles $500,000
Lifts and Boom $125,00
Insurance $320,000
3 hydraCAD seats, pc, custom workstations, 6 21 monitors AutoCAD$15,000
OT Redesign and 2- DPV and 500' of 6 galv installed on OT Labor $20,000
Liquidated Damages
2,000
Oh, boy- can't afford that FDT software
I get them also, and I usually trash them, but always save one copy.
The links allow you to customize what you receive from all of the
email lists AFSA offers and how you receive them.
- Want to go on vacation and suspend activity for awhile? USE THE LINK.
- Changed email address and need to
Hello Steve,
But but but .. if we USE THE LINK How much fun would
that be for us to think of you pulling your hair out when we email and
ask you to change these things for us?
and to borrow your comment
I'm sorry - its Friday and I just could not resist.
Thanks for all you do
I have done a lot of anti freeze system in the last 30 years and only
recently has this been coming up, is something different about the anti
freeze? Is there any documented testing that has been published?
David Canham
Fire Systems Solitions
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From what we have experienced, the intent of the horizontal exit is to
be supplemental to the stairs and other egress components. However, as
currently done the horizontal exit also acts as an audible zone
boundary. This implies that the notification appliances connected to
the fire alarm system
Ron,
I don't know which FM Rep you talked to, but the issue with large drop
sprinklers had nothing to do with calibrating the calorimeter. The
calorimeter doesn't even use sprinklers. The problem arose when
repeating full-scale tests in the new test facility did not produce the
same results
The reason for the term supplemental is that as the stairs are not
sufficient the horizontal exit will supplement (increase) the exit
capacity of the building. My opinion would be that you would not want
the other two buildings / zones to alarm because as you pointed out the
occupants would be
OK Joe. Me reading more into things than were said. What you said
better explains the root of the issue. I must have mixed up different
parts of the conversation. I noticed that you didn't comment on the
kraft paper so I'm guessing I got that part right which was the piece
I was using for the
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