If you are coming up into a building with the water service to a double check
the local potable water protection regulations typically do not allow black
steel prior to the double check. I would have expected the majority of their
unit installations to not connect to black steel piping. I bet
Wire cage elevators in industrial settings are often unenclosed. The original
question, “What constitutes an “enclosed” shaft?”, I think is a question
asking, “Is not a shaft enclosed by definition?”. That makes sense to me. In
certain circumstances building codes require a shaft of specific
The are lots of things interesting about this, including how long ago the event
was, but in my opinion the description lacks some details and requires one to
guess as to what the conditions were and to guess as to the piping arrangement,
which of course is critical to this event since it is
That is the preferred way to set the AHJ agreement, in distributed meeting
minutes of course, because the other way it may be set, “provide NFPA 13
coverage for the deck area only”, means some sprinklers have to be installed
beyond the pool edge to satisfy the application density transition
How I see this, when the distance between sprinklers varies, the more demanding
distance is what drives the required minimum discharge pressure. The shorter
distance gets over discharged but the longer distance gets the application
called for in the design. So these sprinklers need to be
One should realize what happens when a continuous deluge of water, ie fire
sprinkler flow, encounters a piping group or an electrical conduit group,
especially level piping groups. The water flows on the piping surface and then
drops off the pipe at the pipe’s bottom. What hits the top drops
The Mechanical code standards for exhaust ducts carrying flammable and
hazardous materials is where fire suppression requirements can be encountered.
These would apply if the jurisdiction follows that mechanical code. Be sure to
follow that up.
> On Dec 2, 2021, at 11:48 AM, Jerry Van Kolken
The architect has it backwards. The contract documents are where it needs to be
in writing that the fire sprinkler protection system must be designed and
installed in a specific manner. That specific manner must be explicitly stated
in the fire protection documents or be the unambiguous
l movement specifically. The
> language of 9.3.3.2 is confusing, with reference made to open and closing of
> the joint and also to, "...movement relative to the separation in the other
> two dimensions..."What "other two dimensions", time and space?
>
>
If we are referring to the six flexible coupling seismic separation assembly
that every contractor finds an alternative, make a sizable wager with the
structural engineer that the assembly provides vertical movement. Make sure the
winnings cover the cost of six ½” pvc fittings and a four foot
“Not any back flow” is being too loose with terms. Temperature differences
alone will circulate water with the tank. Basically you have a fire pump in the
domestic water system. All the piping materials and components in the system
and connected to the system up to and including the double
You are right. I would assume these are smoke rated spring loaded dampers that
are building powered open, preferably on an emergency circuit if someone was
thinking. Therefore they would power fail closed. The clean agent release panel
would just interrupt the power to the dampers. It is very
My hogwash radar alarm went off. So I checked. People in the fire sprinkler
protection business did time combing through code and standards books. I cannot
apologize for checking.
US Antitrust laws comprise three acts. One is The Sherman Anti-Trust Act. It is
all about conspiracy in restraint
I’ve never seen a wood framed 3 hour fire rated shaft assembly or partition. A
quick look at a USG Fire-Resistant Assembly catalog does not list one. This
stairwell may not end up being built as you describe. Out of curiosity, can you
tell us how this shaft is constructed and provide a tested
't change whether the hydrant supply is completely independent our
> routed through a bypass.
>
> Steve
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org]
> On Behalf Of AKS-Gmail-IMAP via Sprinklerforum
&g
First of all to answer the question about what happens when a pump upstream of
the operating fire pump system is also drawing water and the fire pump system
has an open and flowing bypass system one just needs to go back to basic
hydraulics. Where the fire pump discharge piping joins back to
Mark's way to explain what is going on is very good in my one half cent’s
worth. Scot’s reasoning does have its uses. For example when using it one would
arrive at the same supervisory air compressor choice indicated by a
manufacturer’s selection table. But there is a needed correction! The P1
I think this depends on exactly what you are asking. Perhaps you have not read
through the IEBC enough times. I believe the IEBC instructs code officials as
to what codes to require when alterations are made to existing buildings. In
other words it is not a code to now apply to existing
This is where your client, who might actually be the Architect on this project,
needs an architectural justification to go with a different ceiling or a thin
noncumbustible “sound” batting placed on the ceiling panels. How you plant such
a seed is not easy because sometimes the Engineer is not
5 lbs/sf collateral load is likely the low bid metal building design. This
loading is intended to include ALL the MEPF and Arch. loads on the structure.
The sprinkler contribution to the 5 lbs/sf is maybe 1.5 lbs/sf. This loading
gets used for sizing the main structural elements. Depending on
It is and has been surprising to me when fire protection contractors ask the
pipe freezing question or when they ask piping support questions in context
with approval by local AHJ of any kind. The reason for the surprise is because
contractors have ready access to materials, labor and space to
Make sure there are no electrical conduits or similar leading down through the
floor to another space that is at a lower elevation. Stuff happens despite what
others may claim. It is not unlike, "there is nothing to burn”. I’ve seen an
installation, not a diesel fire pump but an emergency power
If you are referring to Tyco WS sprinklers, then you do see that it is not
listed when there is a horizontal mullion but you also see in its installation
details that there is no maximum distance indicated for the “ceiling” to the
sprinkler. Yup, go look at. One other aspect to this is that
Regarding heads above the conveyor, which I know is not the question, I knew an
airline baggage manager that opened his forehead skin up on a pendent sprinkler
that happened to be above a newly installed baggage conveyor. He had cleared a
baggage jam and was riding the belt on his knees the
First of all, just in case you do not know, you'll probably loose the
maintenance contract if you take this question to the local AHJ without asking
your client about doing that. The answer, BTW, is yes to your question "Would
it be required if this building were being constructed now?". The
All the listed flexible drop installation hardware restrain the sprinkler, but
not necessarily to the ceiling. Some have gripping hardware supported by
threaded rod “from the structure above". The gripping hardware is useful when
the architect has some new fangled, odd ceiling design that does
On May 22, 2020, at 2:49 PM, Sprinkler Academy - C Bilbo via Sprinklerforum
wrote:
>
> . for the record a micron is about the thickness of a sheet of paper.
>
No way. Is not a micron a millionth of a meter? A meter is about 39 inches.
That means an inch is slightly more than 25641
The elephant in the corner is the required containment if there is that
building code requirement. How that is accomplished is a function of the fire
protection application rate. There could be a pretty big oops going on.
> On Feb 17, 2020, at 1:12 PM, Prahl, Craig/GVL via Sprinklerforum
>
If it were not a shell space and had the same design would you have used 3/4”
outlets? How much of the future could the Standard reasonably expect to predict?
The bigger question is should a shell space design be favorable for sprinkler
adaptation or should it be sacrificial. This question is
Such construction is difficult to reconcile on the FP side when the design
team, including the structural team, is told the structure between building A
and building B is essentially a third structure and the two buildings are to be
built such that one side can burn and fall away without
I think you guys are too literal when interpreting the original question
because there has been no mention regarding the electrical controller when the
pump is electric. Perhaps someone should also clarify that aspect.
> On Jan 23, 2020, at 1:01 PM, Prahl, Craig/GVL via Sprinklerforum
>
I am just curious regarding the conditions so here are some questions.
When you write “electronic water sensor”, do you mean a fully electronic sensor
of some sort or is the sensor actually a float actuating a mechanical switch?
Are the low and high level sensors surrounded by a something to
Use the standard that applies to a transition boundary between two different
application densities. You are transitioning between the application above the
mechanical platform to the zero application above the remaining ceiling cavity
space.
> On Sep 6, 2019, at 1:05 PM, Bobby via
But the flow axis for a N1.85 is not a logarithmic scale.
When plotting more than two points on an N1.85 graph you are essentially trying
to eyeball a best fit to a 1.85 power water supply curve. If you are
cook-booking, i.e. you don’t really know what this N1.85 is actually doing,
then you
It is definitely a challenge to get down to the details for these systems to
determine the implications for “supply its water from the automatic sprinkler
system”. I don’t think the system nuts and bolts details are easily available
online for inquiry. I have seen the installation and controls
The home base will be NFPA 72. Here is one important notion to remember.
Throughout the NFPA 72 standard are common words that the average lay person
would take for granted they already know what the words mean but in fact have
very specific meanings in NFPA 72. For example the word “alarm” is
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