Not quite. The NEC has the requirements for wiring of fire alarm
systems, but NFPA 72 (laughingly called the National Fire Alarm Code)
stands on its own.
On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 8:56 PM, Timothy W Goins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Big difference, NFPA 72 is part of the electrical code, or it was
OK, so the plumbers are going to miraculously do what the sprinkler
industry can't and immediately discover qualified designers behind the rocks
OR they are going to be able to train them effectively when we can not?
I am crying foul here - I don't care what code you are using D, R or full
13,
I think the mechanical contractors are fishing in a way bigger pond than
the sprinkler contractors are.
Bill Minkel, Designer
Western States Fire Protection, Dallas
NFPA Member #2578666
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg McGahan
Sent:
Ok, so their pond has better candidates for designers than our pond which is
the USA? No, they will have unqualified people designing and you are still
going to have AHJ's that do not know the code letting them get away with
inadequate work.
I am sorry but I do not know the answer but bringing
Greg, there are enough terrible jobs being done by our own industry that we
should refrain from throwing rocks at mechanicals/plumbers.
I'm sure, like me, you try very hard to toe the line in your sphere of
control, but alas, there are plenty of non-compliant jobs being installed by
sprinkies
I do not have access to the current edition of the IBC this morning and I do
not see it in NFPA 20 Is there a requirement that fire pump rooms have
doors exiting to the exterior of a building?
Thank you,
Greg McGahan
Living Water Fire Protection, LLC
1160 McKenzie Road
Cantonment, FL 32533
But is that really who will be doing this work?
I think it will be the small 1-2 fitter companies, work out of their house,
small time.
I mean unless we get a contract for 25 single family homes, will many of the
larger firms bid?
I don't see many multi-disciplined and/or union outfits getting
I said still - meaning we already have non-compliant work being performed.
I am not casting stones at them without casting it at myself first.
If the plumbers or welders or sheetrock finisher's or any other trade could
step in and fix our design and labor shortage; they will then become part of
No, all it says in 5.12 (2007) is that the access to the pump room shall
be pre-planned with the fire department. In the appendix it states that
access SHOULD be from outside the building.
Had a two hour discussion with a client recently about this issue.
It's a good idea for maintenance and
But imagine you're a big time plumber, you hire a two man sprinkler crew
to start out with and that's all they're dedicated to, sprinkler
installs. A house here and there, condo or other similar work and next
thing you know you're hiring another crew and another and another.
The key will be
Greg,
Interesting take on non-compliant work, AHJ's, inspections and so forth.
Around these parts I often get accused of being tough, enforcing the
code and all sorts of colorful comments. Seems to me that many
contractors don't want comprehensive enforcement. Which is it ?
I rarely find a
Greg, you are not the least of the regular contributors. We all have
something to bring to the table and it all has value to someone.
This is really turning into a multi-faceted discussion. First, there
is an assumption that at some point in the immediate future, there is
going to be a need
We have multi-disciplined contractors up here. One big one does HVAC,
Electrical and Plumbing. Now I'm sure that there isn't one guy doing
all three. Each of their units have people trained and licensed for the
particular discipline.
I would hope that a plumbing contractor would not expect one
Tell those crazy europeans that ;-), about the inward swinging doors!!
Mark at Aero
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 6:55 AM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: Re: fire pump room doors
Greg, I think they will be in the same boat we are. If you can't find
someone to do the work or be the one with the credentials to carry the
license you can't do the work.
We've been trying to find a competent designer for almost 2 years, no
luck. So if plumbers wanting to do sprinkler
Greg,
It is not about the cost of the system. ...Yea it is. As
a ground pounder who works with developers and builders all day long.
Frankly they don't care who does the work, they need to deliver units
and lots of them. They don't fall in love with the project, units units
units.
Greg,
Egress doors only have to open in the direction of egress if the
calculated occupancy load is 50 or more persons or the occupancy is Group
H. See 1008.1.2. I don't recall the last time I saw inward swinging
doors.
I hope this helps.
James L.(Jim) Roberts, PE/SET
Fluor Corporation
100
Most new residential developments only have a handfull of different home
models in the entire community. Won't the majority of these systems be
pre-engineered and pre-drawn?
Justin D. Reid, P.E.
Project Engineer
RLH Fire Protection
3430 Unicorn Road
Bakersfield, CA 93308
Office: (661) 410-1350
I have yet to see anything of value for a sprinkler system come out
of a pre-fab home builder. I usually refuse to do them, but got
suckered into one by a client a couple of years ago for modular
apartments. They company had to have PE stamped dimensioned drawings
approved by the local AHJ,
On the nose Rod.
On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 8:13 AM, Rod DiBona [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Have to agree with Todd here. The reality is that when this comes I
believe it will come in phases especially in regards to demographics.
Greg I think the whole key to the where will they find qualified
I just think the mechanical contractors will have no severe problem finding
people who can learn to design 13D systems and the requirements will likely
be relaxed for single family homes anyway once they are mandated. This is
what I think, I can't prove it but I can think it.
Bill Minkel,
Ladies and Gents:
Just a few observations/comments, if I may...I sat in on a Pex class last
week offered by Uponor (formerly Wirsbo) for local plumbers and (Fire) AHJ's
and came away with this info:
1) No more 4-port fittings, per se, instead the systems will be 'looped'
and still be
To test to see if a hydrant is working doesn't require testing two hydrants.
Just test the flow of each hydrant.
The city needs to decide what the testing requirement/standard is going to
be.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gregg Key
I'm having difficulty in finding ANY manufacturer who publishes their
viscosity for propylene glycol at given temps. Does anyone have any
manufacturer data sheets or website links to any info? Any manufacturer will
do.
thanks,
-B-
___
Sprinklerforum
OK... Here I go jumping in with BOTH feet into the murky depths of this
ever-deepening flood of sprinkie / stuff-flows-down-hill debate...
My brother is a State-Certified Master Plumber here in Florida and has
more than 27 years in the plumbing industry.
For the last two years his residential
http://www.lyondell.com/lyondell/techlit/techlit/2514.pdf
Aero Automatic Sprinkler Co.
Alex G. Cameron, Systems Designer
21605 North Central Avenue
Phoenix, Arizona 85024
623-580-7844
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of IPA
Sent: Tuesday,
Ray,
We have the expertise. We can co-opt them. You're there. Partner with your
relative. We can be like alarm guys with smarts and parts. They don't seem
to have any heartburn having the electricians put in conduit, boxes and
wires to their designs. They make their money doing supplying the
Craig - Gotta call you on this one There are so many small hack contractors
of all flavors out there that the amount of substandard work being accepted
would
astound us all.
What is the magic number of employees that ends substandard work? 10? 25?
28? 200?
If we all worked for one of the giants
Great! Thank you very much!
On 3/25/08, Cameron, Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
http://www.lyondell.com/lyondell/techlit/techlit/2514.pdf
Aero Automatic Sprinkler Co.
Alex G. Cameron, Systems Designer
21605 North Central Avenue
Phoenix, Arizona 85024
623-580-7844
-Original
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