Craig - Gotta call you on this one "There are so many small hack contractors of all flavors out there that the amount of substandard work being accepted would astound us all". What is the magic number of employees that ends substandard work? 10? 25? 28? 200? If we all worked for one of the giants would substandard work disappear? Hacks come in all flavors and sizes.
Garth ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 8:36 AM Subject: RE: Fire Systems and Plumbers But imagine you're a big time plumber, you hire a two man sprinkler crew to start out with and that's all they're dedicated to, sprinkler installs. A house here and there, condo or other similar work and next thing you know you're hiring another crew and another and another. The key will be licensing and regulation and educated inspector's just as it is now. There are so many small hack contractors of all flavors out there that the amount of substandard work being accepted would astound us all. Then add inspector's who just don't know or don't care and plan reviewers who fit the same bill and we're no better or worse off. How many times have we walked into a poor or maybe even non-compliant installation and said nothing to anyone? Until we police ourselves and rat out the hacks and crooks there will be no change, no matter what or who does the install. Our industry needs to make sure our legislators REALLY understand what they are signing and why when laws are being drafted and voted on. Too many times those with particular financial or other agendas cloud the truth to suit their need. Ok need to get off the soapbox now.................... Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection Group Mechanical Department CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ch2m.com -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Duross Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 9:22 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Fire Systems and Plumbers But is that really who will be doing this work? I think it will be the small 1-2 fitter companies, work out of their house, small time. I mean unless we get a contract for 25 single family homes, will many of the larger firms bid? I don't see many multi-disciplined and/or union outfits getting into this work. Around here, many of the smaller residential plumbers also have journeyman's licenses. They got them grandfathered by submitting evidence of experience years ago. They would have to test to get contractors licenses but it can be done. If they pass the test, salutes from me. More competition but not really, in this case. Tom Duross, CPD Licensed Sprinkler Contractor 10 year Apprentice Plumber (one of these days I gotta finish) Go Red Sox We have multi-disciplined contractors up here. One big one does HVAC, Electrical and Plumbing. Now I'm sure that there isn't one guy doing all three. Each of their units have people trained and licensed for the particular discipline. I would hope that a plumbing contractor would not expect one guy to install sprinklers right after he finished plumbing the toilets. We can hope..... I wonder though, if a plumber is going to install sprinklers why they would not have to adhere to the same standards regarding qualifications for those who do the sprinkler design and license requirements as any other sprinkler installer? Craig L. Prahl, CET Ok, so their pond has better candidates for designers than our pond which is the USA? No, they will have unqualified people designing and you are still going to have AHJ's that do not know the code letting them get away with inadequate work. I am sorry but I do not know the answer but bringing in another trade will get more work done, but not done better. Thank you, Greg McGahan I think the mechanical contractors are fishing in a way bigger pond than the sprinkler contractors are. Bill Minkel, Designer OK, so the plumbers are going to "miraculously" do what the sprinkler industry can't and immediately discover qualified designers behind the rocks OR they are going to be able to train them effectively when we can not? I am crying foul here - I don't care what code you are using D, R or full 13, the issue is the same. I know we have spent money and time trying to train and I am sure you more experienced guys have spent exponentially more than us "young" guys. The problem is deeper - MANY Americans do not want to work in ANY field and they definitely REFUSE to take responsibility for their own lives and careers. Bring me a person of character and integrity and I can train them and they will work if they have basic natural ability. I have seen many, dozens of people with the natural ability fail repeatedly due to character and integrity issues. I am sure the plumbers will take and perform the work; but I am even more certain that they will have the same problems we already do to a much larger degree and with less accountability. Thank you, Greg McGahan Not quite. The NEC has the requirements for wiring of fire alarm systems, but NFPA 72 (laughingly called the National Fire Alarm Code) stands on its own. On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 8:56 PM, Timothy W Goins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Big difference, NFPA 72 is part of the electrical code, or it was the > last time I checked. > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
