Re: [Standards] "Self-destruct" message timeout deletion hints

As a person who knows how teenagers use this functionality in proprietary and centralized messengers, I can tell it's not about information actuality, it's about transmitting a small secret you'd like to hide from a person who may watch your smartphone screen a bit later over your shoulder.

Re: [Standards] "Self-destruct" message timeout deletion hints

Very pragmatic, I like it. It's basically the language used to present the feature that seems to be most at conflict, and as long as it's clear that this isn't guaranteed to delete on the other end, I think we're good. However, I think "deletionrequest" is redundant and it should just be

Re: [Standards] "Self-destruct" message timeout deletion hints

Hello everybody, if I may make a suggestion: I agree with both positions on this: a) A message deletion/destruction feature requested on the senders side for the receiving side is not possible to implement reliably in an open protocol/environment where the receiving client just can ignore that

Re: [Standards] "Self-destruct" message timeout deletion hints

Quoting Dave Cridland : That's not the case in an open ecosystem - someone's client could just ignore the request, and might even have a setting to do so. It is very probable that many clients will offer this setting, so users will be rapidly aware of it - and that their

Re: [Standards] "Self-destruct" message timeout deletion hints

On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 1:43 PM, Chris Ballinger wrote: > I think people are overthinking this and expecting this proposal to be a > completely secure 100% guaranteed way to enforce message deletion on a > client you don't control. I think the real problem is that *users*

Re: [Standards] "Self-destruct" message timeout deletion hints

On 1 November 2016 at 18:13, Chris Ballinger wrote: > People already have a casual understanding that you can't completely enforce > message deletion. Actually, I'm really not sure that's as true as you assert. People currently think that it requires an assertive effort on

Re: [Standards] "Self-destruct" message timeout deletion hints

You're not promising anything, it's just a hint that the other side should automatically delete a message. If anything, it's most useful that it auto-deletes it from your own device from the perspective of physical security. You can phrase it as "Request automatic deletion" to make it more clear

Re: [Standards] "Self-destruct" message timeout deletion hints

> On 1 Nov 2016, at 17:43, forenjunkie wrote: > > But it doesnt work with a decentral, open source kind of system. > > a feature like that depends on the other side deleting the message. > > you are lying to your users the minute you offer this feature in your client >

Re: [Standards] "Self-destruct" message timeout deletion hints

But it doesnt work with a decentral, open source kind of system. a feature like that depends on the other side deleting the message. you are lying to your users the minute you offer this feature in your client and not show a disclaimer. you promise the message will self destruct, but you can

Re: [Standards] "Self-destruct" message timeout deletion hints

Regardless of whether or not "we" think it's a good idea, users are starting to demand the feature, especially because it's now present in almost every mainstream messaging app. At some point we will probably implement it because it's a relatively simple feature with a lot of demand. When that

Re: [Standards] "Self-destruct" message timeout deletion hints

On Wed, 19 Oct 2016, 19:40 Kim Alvefur, wrote: > > The question becomes why should we standardize something that only works > in a closed system? The reason to standardize is, as with open systems, so that multiple servers and clients can provide the same feature.

Re: [Standards] "Self-destruct" message timeout deletion hints

On 2016-10-19 08:51, Daniel Gultsch wrote: > In that regard we might as well standardize it even > though it will probably be only implemented in closed systems were you > can be relatively certain that messages will in fact be deleted. The question becomes why should we standardize something

Re: [Standards] "Self-destruct" message timeout deletion hints

On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 4:58 PM, Chris Ballinger wrote: > Many other messaging apps are implementing features for self-destructing > messages. I dismissed the idea for a long time because of the impossibility > of actually enforcing deletion on the other side, but now I

Re: [Standards] "Self-destruct" message timeout deletion hints

On 18 October 2016 at 22:58, Chris Ballinger wrote: > Many other messaging apps are implementing features for self-destructing > messages. I dismissed the idea for a long time because of the impossibility > of actually enforcing deletion on the other side, but now I believe

Re: [Standards] "Self-destruct" message timeout deletion hints

On 19 October 2016 at 13:56, Brian Cully wrote: > >> On 18-Oct-2016, at 17:58, Chris Ballinger wrote: >> >> Are there other scenarios that I'm missing? Would people be willing to >> implement this into their apps? Is formalized spec for this something

Re: [Standards] "Self-destruct" message timeout deletion hints

Yup - I've done something like this before using AMP. /Steffen > On 19 Oct 2016, at 14.56, Brian Cully wrote: > > >> On 18-Oct-2016, at 17:58, Chris Ballinger wrote: >> >> Are there other scenarios that I'm missing? Would people be willing to >>

Re: [Standards] "Self-destruct" message timeout deletion hints

> On 18-Oct-2016, at 17:58, Chris Ballinger wrote: > > Are there other scenarios that I'm missing? Would people be willing to > implement this into their apps? Is formalized spec for this something that > XSF would consider? In the finance world being able to

Re: [Standards] "Self-destruct" message timeout deletion hints

Let the record show that I find this feature to be completely ridiculous and I don't agree at all with Whisper Systems rational to implement this. Data hygiene can best be achieved by a one sided feature that (optionally) cleans all messages after a certain time period. However I had several

Re: [Standards] "Self-destruct" message timeout deletion hints

Do I understand this correctly: this feature depends on the author of a message enabling an 'auto-destruct' flag? From a user perspective, I'd be terribly annoyed by that. There is hardly any added security or privacy value in this feature, and the the data hygiene that applies to my data is

[Standards] "Self-destruct" message timeout deletion hints

Many other messaging apps are implementing features for self-destructing messages. I dismissed the idea for a long time because of the impossibility of actually enforcing deletion on the other side, but now I believe it could be useful to help users "automate minimalist data hygiene" [1]. As far