On 2011-07-27, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
This is very subjective, but yes, I have the impression it is better.
Also the speakers tend to disappear as being the sources of the sound
and there is less interaction from the room - the sensation that the
sound is 'just there' is stronger than for
On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 05:30:55PM -0700, Robert Greene wrote:
I am not an electronics designer but I think the causes of
current limiting and voltage limiting are in effect different.
Of course the one actually happens when the other happens:
an amp cannot maintain voltage without
Hang on, hang on - if the electrons exceed the speed of light then either
a: their mass will go infinite and the cable will implode into a mini black
hole
or
b: they will decay into tachyons resulting in the sound coming out of the
speaker before it has even been recorded
Dav M.
On
Arghhh - I shouldn't have let this out of the bag - there's clearly a
_massive_ EU research funding opportunity here - now, how do I go about
obtaining time on the large Hadron Collider???
Dave M.
On Jul 28 2011, dave.mal...@york.ac.uk wrote:
Hang on, hang on - if the electrons exceed
a: in the northern hemisphere - because there are more people (masses- Kyrie
Eleison!) and
b: in the southern hemisphere - which is why the electroacoustic music is so
'advanced' there
drw
On 28/07/2011, at 4:50 PM, dave.mal...@york.ac.uk wrote:
Hang on, hang on - if the electrons exceed
To: sursound@music.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Distance perception (really speaker wire discussion!)
Arghhh - I shouldn't have let this out of the bag - there's clearly a
_massive_ EU research funding opportunity here - now, how do I go about
obtaining time on the large Hadron Collider
All of this arises in my view from two simple things:
1 People in audio do not check things double blind
and
2 People in audio do not normalize things for frequency response
and do not do precision measurements of frequency response.
Point 1 is obvious. About point 2: Small shifts in frequency
The review comments on Amazon for the Audio Quest K2 speaker cable are
very entertaining in the most:
http://www.amazon.com/AudioQuest-K2-terminated-speaker-cable/product-reviews/B000J36XR2/
Certainly more interesting than some dubious pseudo-expert 'review'
- Neil
On 7/28/2011 1:03 PM,
On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 10:43:33PM +0200, Justin Bennett wrote:
Maybe a similar effect to the Bloomline speakers
http://www.bloomline.nl/
not a very useful website if you don't speak dutch - but
these speakers create a virtual image between 2
vertically positioned drivers - indeed the
On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 10:26:49PM -0400, Marc Lavallée wrote:
How large is the resulting stereo image?
As large as you make it, see below.
Is your technique documented somewhere?
Can it work with a horizontal hexagon?
With 2rd order AMB?
Sure. There isn't much to document, just
set up
Apart from the damping problem which has been very well laid out by Fons, there is another factor
which can come into play and which I documented in an article in Hi-Fi for Pleasure many years ago.
The fact is that many poorly constructed cables, when hit with a bit of power, will actually
On 26 Jul 2011, at 17:00, sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu wrote:
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 20:18:42 -0400
From: Marc Lavall?e m...@hacklava.net
After reading this difficult thread (I'm replying with a new title),
I have simple questions about room sizes and speaker distances.
Imagine two rooms
next year, will have same
length wires to all the speakers. umashankar
i have published my poems. read (or buy) at http://stores.lulu.com/umashankar
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 21:57:49 -0700
From: d...@dgvo.net
To: sursound@music.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Distance perception
On 26/07/11 3:41
i have published my poems. read (or buy) at http://stores.lulu.com/umashankar
From: davehuntau...@btinternet.com
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 11:01:32 +0100
To: sursound@music.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Distance perception
On 26 Jul 2011, at 17:00, sursound-requ...@music.vt.edu wrote
...@dgvo.net
To: sursound@music.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Distance perception
On 26/07/11 3:41 p.m., Sampo Syreeni wrote:
On 2011-07-26, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
I certainly don't want you to waste your money on fancy speaker cables.
Never thought otherwise. That's obviously never been what
@music.vt.edu
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Distance perception (really speaker wire
discussion!)
I wrote the following as a guide for internal use at my work-place a few
years back:
One don't that I hold close is this: Don't be mislead by the many snake
oil and, smoke and mirrors cable vendors
but of course ! umashankar
i have published my poems. read (or buy) at http://stores.lulu.com/umashankar
From: zoanne...@yahoo.co.uk
To: sursound@music.vt.edu
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2011 13:26:47 +0100
Subject: Re: [Sursound] Distance perception (really speaker wire discussion!)
Oh dear
Surely a Duracell would be perfect for the job, I mean, it does wonders for
that rabbit...
The problem with using a cheap battery for doing this is that
those electrons which are really not able to move anymore (for
example those having a broken leg, the result of smashing into
Am I missing something?
You send electrons and the speaker cone moves out, o.k.
It comes back by itself.
But surely you want it to move _in_ as well? How do you
do that without positrons.
(I think that's right, most things in surround sound
seem counter-intuitive: So I doubt if it is positrons
I found this message really intriguing since the rabbit is
really in an ad for Energizer batteries not Duracell.
One wonders why advertising is useful! I have had
exactly the same experience. The ads are memorable,
but what they are ads FOR is not.
Better than the original--who can forget the
Speaker wiring really is a hot topic on all audio related forums.
Next time I'll use the term speaker wire instead of lamp cord. :-)
For a small and inefficient Kef satellite speaker (3 with a
tiny coaxial tweeter and internal crossover circuit), unable to
reproduce frequencies lower that 120Hz,
Wed, 27 Jul 2011 07:53:18 +,
Fons Adriaensen f...@linuxaudio.org wrote :
On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 10:26:49PM -0400, Marc Lavallée wrote:
How large is the resulting stereo image?
As large as you make it, see below.
In your earlier post you mentioned that you can't explain why you like
On 07/27/2011 04:26 AM, Marc Lavallée wrote:
Tue, 26 Jul 2011 21:32:26 +,
Fons Adriaensenf...@linuxaudio.org wrote :
The thing is that I very much prefer listening to
stereo using two virtual speakers panned into 3rd order AMB rather
than sending L,R directly to two of the speakers.
On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 01:19:50PM -0400, Marc Lavallée wrote:
In your earlier post you mentioned that you can't explain why you like
virtual speakers better than using real speakers. Can you describe some
perceived differences? For example, how are rendered mono signals; are
they right in
On 27 Jul 2011, at 18:33, Fons Adriaensen f...@linuxaudio.org wrote:
On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 01:19:50PM -0400, Marc Lavallée wrote:
In your earlier post you mentioned that you can't explain why you like
virtual speakers better than using real speakers. Can you describe some
perceived
If you have a suitable LiOn battery pack, shorting the terminals out with
the cable perks up most the tired electrons - and the subsequent explosion
will remove any that are too far gone...
On Jul 27 2011, Sampo Syreeni wrote:
On 2011-07-27, umashankar mantravadi wrote:
havent you heard of
On Wed, Jul 27, 2011 at 06:50:03PM +0100, Scott Wilson wrote:
Do you find it varies with material? People don't always say
it this way, but sometimes increased localisation blur is nice!
Good question, but I can't give a definite answer.
Most of the material I've been working on there is
I have been browsing this list long enough to observe that this phenomena only
occurs (or at least is only reported, on this list, albeit with annual
regularity) in Northern Hemisphere summers.
Down under, the summers are so hot that the electrons want to pass through
cable as quickly as
On 07/26/2011 02:18 AM, Marc Lavallée wrote:
Imagine two rooms with proper acoustic characteristics and treatments
for ambisonics reproduction: the first is 3mX4m and the other is four
times larger in surface (9mX12m). In both rooms there's a
horizontal hexagon of speakers, and 5 speakers are
sorry, itchy trigger finger...
On 07/26/2011 10:14 AM, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:
as mentioned before, the floor reflection is a very strong distance cue
at close range under semi-anechoic conditions (i.e. if you want to gauge
the distance of that sabre-toothed tiger or the potential mating
Tue, 26 Jul 2011 10:14:50 +0200,
Jörn Nettingsmeier netti...@stackingdwarves.net wrote :
regardless of room size, they will require a bit of equalisation. if
the speakers are designed to be close to a boundary surface, the one
that's not against a wall needs (gentle) bass boost. vice versa, if
Some papers that may be of interest:
Takahashi, A Novel View of Hearing in Reverberation, Neuron, Volume
62, Issue 1, 6-7, 16 April 2009
doi:10.1016/j.neuron.2009.04.004
Devore, et al., Accurate Sound Localization in Reverberant
Environments Is Mediated by Robust Encoding of Spatial Cues in the
On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 04:35:39PM -0400, Marc Lavallée wrote:
I will do it in software. It's a domestic setup, so I don't need
expensive active speakers and cabling; I prefer to use very small
speakers with lamp cords.
Lamp cords ? Use at least 2.5 mm^2 !
the problem is that your
On 2011-07-26, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
Lamp cords ? Use at least 2.5 mm^2 !
Where does this come from? I've never though cable geometry matters much
at all, unless your pumping so much power through a cable over such a
long distance that you have to worry about ohmic heating and the like.
On 07/27/2011 12:41 AM, Sampo Syreeni wrote:
On 2011-07-26, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
I certainly don't want you to waste your money on fancy speaker cables.
Never thought otherwise. That's obviously never been what we do here. ;)
But resistance does matter, so a good cross section such as
Tue, 26 Jul 2011 21:32:26 +,
Fons Adriaensen f...@linuxaudio.org wrote :
Lamp cords ? Use at least 2.5 mm^2 !
I'll use less than 10 meters of cabling to drive 10W max in each tiny 6
ohms speaker. So I'm not worried at all. Gauge 14 or 16 should be fine:
On 26/07/11 3:41 p.m., Sampo Syreeni wrote:
On 2011-07-26, Fons Adriaensen wrote:
I certainly don't want you to waste your money on fancy speaker cables.
Never thought otherwise. That's obviously never been what we do here. ;)
But resistance does matter, so a good cross section such as 2.5
After reading this difficult thread (I'm replying with a new title),
I have simple questions about room sizes and speaker distances.
Mon, 25 Jul 2011 18:35:31 +0100,
Dave Hunt davehuntau...@btinternet.com wrote :
The Distance Compensation (aka NFC, and not the shelf filters)
attempts to
...@music.vt.edu]
Im Auftrag von Junfeng Li
Gesendet: Sonntag, 17. April 2011 03:28
An: Surround Sound discussion group
Betreff: [Sursound] distance perception in virtual environments
Dear list,
I am now wondering how to subjectively evaluate distance perception in
virtual environments which might
Helmut Oellers oell...@syntheticwave.de wrote:
2011/4/26 Dave Malham d...@york.ac.uk
On 24/04/2011 19:11, Helmut Oellers wrote:
...modern computers are also clever. Today nothing is unaccountable if we
know the formula and all variables.
That's a BIG assumption - and given the
Actually, the butterfly flap thing is not really good either.
In chaos, things do not cause other things. The system is
essentially noncausal.
This is a trick point. But if a system depends unstably
on its initial state, it makes no real sense to say that it
depends on its initial state at all
...modern computers are also clever. Today nothing is unaccountable if we
know the formula and all variables. Audio is no mysterious. The complete
sonic field would be calculatable. The only problem is the huge amount of
variables. In principle, yet, we are able to calculate any wave front of
Hi David,
you are not alone in your insigthes. Some single discrete reflections are
the most important fact for estimation of source distance.
There exist research from Helmut Wittek, who was proven, play the
reverberation from four different directions is absolutely sufficient. We
cannot use the
On 17/04/2011 02:28, Junfeng Li wrote:
Dear list,
I am now wondering how to subjectively evaluate distance perception in
virtual environments which might be synthesized using WFS or HOA (high-order
ambisonics). In my experiments, the sounds were synthesized at different
distances and presented
Richard Lee rica...@justnet.com.au wrote:
You must simulate at least 2 things.
...
You have to simulate early reflections and a reverb pattern appropriate to
source distance. MAG has a paper on this under Distance Panners from an
idea by Peter Craven.
MAG's paper is:
M.A. Gerzon, The Design
,
Markus
On 17 avr. 2011, at 19:38, Dave Hunt wrote:
Hi,
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2011 09:28:28 +0800
From: Junfeng Li junfeng.li.1...@gmail.com
Subject: [Sursound] distance perception in virtual environments
Dear list,
I am now wondering how to subjectively evaluate distance perception
That's an interesting question. The environment you're working in for
synthesis could matter quite a bit. That is, if your working in, or
simulating, an environment with little reverberation it is harder to judge
distance since direct-to-reflected energy ratio is an important cue. The
other
and
reproduction.
Ralph Glasgal
www.ambiophonics.org
From: Junfeng Li junfeng.li.1...@gmail.com
To: Surround Sound discussion group sursound@music.vt.edu
Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 9:28 PM
Subject: [Sursound] distance perception in virtual environments
Dear list,
I am now wondering how
You must simulate at least 2 things.
At close range, you must simulate the curvature of the soundfield. This is
simply proximity for 1st order and the effect is, if anything, exaggerated.
see the Appendix of
Is My Decoder Ambisonic, Heller et al, AES San Francisco 1980 aka BLaH3
See Daniel
I hope you have a control where you measure real distance perception too.
Not having a real control is a fault in many localisation experiments.
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