Re: [biofuel] Making Something From Nothing
I know the chimney needs hot gases to work, Since it is reduced density generating the needed lift it seems to me you could use a well insulated stack and extract the heat at the last moment. If you want to discuss it on micro cogen it is fine with me. Cogen is cogen. I just advocate diesel because it is off the shelf and top efficiency. I suppose there would be lots of problems powering a Brayton cycle with wood. Charcoal might be ok but I think wood has lots of goop problems. I suppose your wood heated closed cycle is a reasonable compromise. Kirk - Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 10:52 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Making Something From Nothing Keith Addison wrote: (this is actually robert's comment from a previous post) I'm working on a cogeneration scheme for my wood stove to increase the efficiency of my biofuel resource. (And no, it's not going very well!!!) to which Keith responded: Do you know Kirk's group? [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Micro_Cogeneration Yes. I'm on his list. (As well as solar concentrator, distillers, gasification and others. . .) Kirk has a good resource developing, but the main thrust seems to involve diesel gen sets. My project is a scroll expander driven by refrigerant gas, and I've had no end of headache getting it off the ground. I've done this sort of thing with steam in the past, but I wanted something operating at lower temperatures, so I could use hot water to drive the cycle (a topping system is what I had in mind--take the first 10 degrees C off of a water tank heated by my wood stove for the expander, then pipe the rest to the domestic supply), while condenser waste supplied pre heated water for the hot side. With such a system, flat plate solar panels could generate the required heat on the rare occasions when the sun shines around here. . . It's a great idea on paper. I have a scroll expander, assorted plumbing, valves and gauges, but the system pump, acquiring the refrigerant (I want to use R 124, or R 134--not 134a!), and eliminating oil (which the scroll needs in order to seal) and air from the lines have proven more problematic than I imagined. I could use methanol, but I really don't want to vaporize anything that can kill me or my family if it leaks! My long suffering wife is waiting for me to lose heart and abandon the project. . . However, I'm rather determined to increase my level of independence. The amount of wood I cut each year should be able to heat my house, all my domestic hot water and provide a couple of kilowatt hours of electricity. The fact that so much energy races up the stack to heat the sky simply bothers me. I know the chimney needs hot gases to work, but the temperature gauge on the flue indicates that more is heating the sky than is necessary. I'd really like to collect, cut, stack, burn and waste less. But my garden LOVES the ashes! robert luis rabello Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Making Something From Nothing
kirk wrote: I know the chimney needs hot gases to work, Since it is reduced density generating the needed lift it seems to me you could use a well insulated stack and extract the heat at the last moment. True. However, as long as the stack remains inside my house, it contributes to space heating. snip If you want to discuss it on micro cogen it is fine with me. Cogen is cogen. I just advocate diesel because it is off the shelf and top efficiency. I haven't discussed it because my system isn't working! When I did this with steam, I ended up with less than 1% conversion efficiency from wood to electricity. If my math is right for the Rankine cycle, I'll end up with about 17% conversion efficiency using the lower temperature working fluid without superheat. That's more than enough! I can use the waste heat for domestic purposes. I suppose there would be lots of problems powering a Brayton cycle with wood. Charcoal might be ok but I think wood has lots of goop problems. I suppose your wood heated closed cycle is a reasonable compromise. The cyclical effect of wood burning, coupled with the high latent heat of water, stabilizes the expander's operation. I plan a vapor cycling system that only activates the expander when vapor pressure reaches a set point. (Batteries don't care if their charging is intermittent.) Wood burning also eliminates the need for feed stock pre treatment characteristic of gasification systems, and the serious energy losses involved in creating charcoal. It wouldn't be a perfect system, but it would be nice if I could actually get it to work! robert luis rabello Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Glycerine pretreat
Back in December there was some talk on this subject by Paul Gobert and others. The subject being to use glycerine which still has some methanol and NAOH content to pre-treat oil used for bio-diesel. Has anyone done further experiments? I would like to give it a go. I did try mixing 1 litre of glycerine with 1 litre of used Canola oil at about 50 degC, mixing by hand now then over an hour. After 24 hours had about 250 mil Esters, 900 mil oil, 850 mil glycerine. Was surprised to see lest glycerine than oil. The oil layer had yellowy aerated look, and has stayed that way after 6 days (it was clean clear looking to start with) I presume it is just the oily middle layer that you then go on to process with the usual methods. I would welcome any pointers and guidance on the subject. I have about 150 litres in plastic pails I want to process. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Making Something From Nothing
Ah, Robert, I'm but a bear of small brain - frankly, I don't know what the hell you're talking about! :-) What's a scroll expander? No, don't tell me. Don't be discouraged either - plenty of others here know exactly what you're talking about, I'm sure. I get the idea though. I'm also bothered about heating the sky - not right now, in this nice flat, but in the past when I've used wood, and generally. That chimney heat should be tappable so it can be used. Or something. Peter Singfield in Belize would wax interesting on this I think, and so would Adrian English - on the other lists you're on. Have you checked out Adrian's Big Top gasifier? All that nice fertile soil you're sitting on can't push up a crop of oil so you can use a diesel? Best Keith Keith Addison wrote: (this is actually robert's comment from a previous post) I'm working on a cogeneration scheme for my wood stove to increase the efficiency of my biofuel resource. (And no, it's not going very well!!!) to which Keith responded: Do you know Kirk's group? [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Micro_Cogeneration Yes. I'm on his list. (As well as solar concentrator, distillers, gasification and others. . .) Kirk has a good resource developing, but the main thrust seems to involve diesel gen sets. My project is a scroll expander driven by refrigerant gas, and I've had no end of headache getting it off the ground. I've done this sort of thing with steam in the past, but I wanted something operating at lower temperatures, so I could use hot water to drive the cycle (a topping system is what I had in mind--take the first 10 degrees C off of a water tank heated by my wood stove for the expander, then pipe the rest to the domestic supply), while condenser waste supplied pre heated water for the hot side. With such a system, flat plate solar panels could generate the required heat on the rare occasions when the sun shines around here. . . It's a great idea on paper. I have a scroll expander, assorted plumbing, valves and gauges, but the system pump, acquiring the refrigerant (I want to use R 124, or R 134--not 134a!), and eliminating oil (which the scroll needs in order to seal) and air from the lines have proven more problematic than I imagined. I could use methanol, but I really don't want to vaporize anything that can kill me or my family if it leaks! My long suffering wife is waiting for me to lose heart and abandon the project. . . However, I'm rather determined to increase my level of independence. The amount of wood I cut each year should be able to heat my house, all my domestic hot water and provide a couple of kilowatt hours of electricity. The fact that so much energy races up the stack to heat the sky simply bothers me. I know the chimney needs hot gases to work, but the temperature gauge on the flue indicates that more is heating the sky than is necessary. I'd really like to collect, cut, stack, burn and waste less. But my garden LOVES the ashes! robert luis rabello Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Discussion closed - was Re: [biofuel] 50% filtered WVO and 50% DD?
I agree with you Jack, in part, though I don't quite know how you see it. points. If you are concerned with what shows up on google's,etc... search engines, then this forum has hidden agendas that hurt rather than help. In the vast majority of cases it doesn't matter at all, but I've recently had cause to point that out. But that just led to further arguments and denials and so on that made it worse - ie more questionable archive content for a search engine bot to trawl. A hidden agenda, or just carelessness? Well, it's not a profitable question to pursue at this stage, is it? I'm rather sorry it came up. Not your fault though. Anyway, it did come up, and needs comment. The archives is in fact editable. I have edited it a couple of times, for innocuous reasons, and in fact I have to do so again now, on request, to correct a technical inaccuracy in a member's posting, where he said WVO when he'd meant to say something else. But I'm extremely reluctant to start editing it on this new basis. That it's difficult not to edit it, as said below, for those reasons, is just nonsense. There's editing, and then there's censorship, different things. I'm a professional editor, among my media hats, and I've fought censorship all my life, and lived under it as imposed by an oppressive regime. This is an unmoderated list, as I've said a couple of times recently. I don't act as a moderator. That would mean I was vetting messages before releasing them to the list - censorship. I'm well aware there's another meaning to moderator, but it's a technical term on these lists, as used by Yahoo, so let's not confuse the issue, eh? I have put several members under moderation, for reasons I've recently explained - the unsubscribe-challenged, for instance, who bother us all with their misdirected messages. And trolls, a couple of times. I don't think it's ever come to anything - it was just a precaution, the trolls left, I never actually had to vet any messages. I am the list owner, largely a technical matter to do with running and maintaining the list, but also a matter of taking responsibility, when the list's interests are threatened and need protecting. I don't see any conflict between my role as list owner and that as a list member - when it comes to discussions, I'm on the same basis as anyone else. Pull rank? Give me a break! The only difference I can see is that I post a lot of news items and so on to the list, much more than other members do (though they're more than welcome!), and that's probably or partly because I'm the list owner, with an eye to the archives content as well. I'm afraid I find the following discussion on editing and whether or not I have a hidden agenda and what if anything I should be proud of rather odious, and this trawling over what's past and done very ill-considered. Letting sleeping dogs lie would surely have been wiser. This discussion is now closed. This is a list owner's ruling. Please take heed. (Of course that doesn't apply to the WVO-dino bit of it, please feel free.) Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Osaka, Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Dana Linscott wrote: Jack, I am not sure which category I fit into..ganger or gangeeSo for what it is worth... It is difficult for any moderator to not edit the info on ones own list as it may be attributed to the list moderator in some way even though it may in fact can be exactly opposite of the list owners own strongly held beliefs. I speak from experience. It is even more difficult to resist responding passionately to a list member who has viewpoints that seem to often directly oppose the list owners. In my opinion Keith manages to act as a MODERATOR rather than a list owner...and I admire him for his restraint. I also admire(although not near as much) the list members that may seem to gang up. After requesting that personal attacks be directed off list to me personally I got to see how much restraint is practiced by even the most..ummm...creative.. members on the list. Most were pretty restrained...but there always a few that have the gift of...umm..exessive passion. All in all I do not believe that Keith has any hidden agenda. It is right there in the open for all to see and I don't think he should be anything but proud of it. After all he has provided this forum to promote biofuels and for the members to share their opinions about biofuel and in MY opinion the membership generally acts in a very respectful manner and always acts with a great deal of restraint. You must take into consideration that most have very strong beliefs that are for the most part backed with very good an logical arguments. many would have given up long ago I think, if they did not passionately believe in what they share here. Please don;t take this as a flame...it is not intended as one. Just my opinion and no more. Having read through that you deserve something
Discussion closed - was Re: [biofuel] 50% filtered WVO and 50% DD?
:| comments like This discussion is now closed. This is a list owner's ruling. Please take heed... are not wise! you sound like the government that governs you! I did not see a response that contributed to the actual BD concerns posed. You really can't expect that EVERYONE has the time to go through the non-sense posts that arise from shit like this to get usable information based on experience. to be real honest, numerous posts are political in nature and thus inherently require a POLITICAL opinionated response. PLEASE...keep it technical! NOT PERSONAL. that's how we see it. jack Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Sloppiest made biodiesel won't hurt engines or pollute
good on you Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Discussion closed - was Re: [biofuel] 50% filtered WVO and 50% DD?
Ignoring a list owner's ruling means taking the consequences. This member's posting privileges have been suspended, he's been advised of that and told why. The word privileges is accurate and used intentionally. With privileges go obligations. Ignore the obligations and the privileges will be withdrawn. No big news, everyone knows that. This member has also been told this: 'Re political posts (ie, usually, I don't agree with them), nobody's forcing anybody to read anything. I will not restrict discussion to what some people see as on-topic. I will not keep it technical. Many people see it your way, at least as many don't. Biofuels is a political subject, not just confined to usable information based on experience. Plenty of both here, and that's the way it's going to stay.' No discussion please. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Osaka, Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner :| comments like This discussion is now closed. This is a list owner's ruling. Please take heed... are not wise! you sound like the government that governs you! I did not see a response that contributed to the actual BD concerns posed. You really can't expect that EVERYONE has the time to go through the non-sense posts that arise from shit like this to get usable information based on experience. to be real honest, numerous posts are political in nature and thus inherently require a POLITICAL opinionated response. PLEASE...keep it technical! NOT PERSONAL. that's how we see it. jack Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Trains - was Re: [biofuel] Making Something From Nothing
By the way, there's a major magazine that wants to run a big piece on trains, the lack thereof, in the US mainly, also elsewhere. I've been asked to write it, but backed off - too much research, too far away. I guess I could contribute on the elsewhere bit. Anyone know a trains guru/advocate with the whole thing at his fingertips who might be interested? Anyone like to contribute? It wouldn't be for a few months, but this could be a chance to to something about it, considering what Robert's been saying, all too true, and the figures that Tim posted previously - once again: Average BTU consumed Per Passenger mile by mode of travel: SUV: 4,591 Air: 4,123 Bus: 3,729 Car: 3,672 Train: 2,138 Source: Bureau of Transportation Statistics http://199.79.179.77/btsprod/nts/Ch4_web/4-20.htm Let me know. Thanks Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Osaka, Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Trains - was Re: [biofuel] Making Something From Nothing
Here's something someone sent me about the London Underground - the Metro. Keith Cleanliness on London Underground During Autumn of 2000, a team of scientists at the Department of Forensics at University College London removed a row of passenger seats from a Central Line tube carriage for analysis into cleanliness. Despite London Underground's claim that the interior of their trains are cleaned on a regular basis, the scientists made some alarming discoveries: This is what was found on the surface of the seats: - 4 types of hair sample (human, mouse, rat, dog) - 7 types of insect (mostly fleas, mostly alive) - vomit originating from at least 9 separate people - human urine originating from at least 4 separate people - human excrement - rodent excrement - human semen When the seats were taken apart, they found: - the remains of 6 mice - the remains of 2 large rats - 1 previously unheard of fungus It is estimated that by holding one of the armrests, you are transferring, to your body, the natural oils and sweat from as many as 400 different people. It is estimated that it is generally healthier to smoke five cigarettes a day than to travel for one hour a day on the London Underground. It is far more hygienic to wipe your hand on the inside of a recently flushed toilet bowl before eating, than to wipe your hand on a London Underground seat before eating. It is estimated that, within London, more work sick-days are taken because of bugs picked up whilst travelling on the London Underground than for any other reason including alcohol). Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Making Something From Nothing
I find on very windy days my 20 foot long pipe is marginal unless the fire is hot. I need that much lift to offset the partial pressure made by the wind. I haven't made any effort to capture the heat moving out the stack. Those thermoelectric semiconductors they are touting look interesting. They never seem to make it to market though. Kirk - Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 12:36 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Making Something From Nothing kirk wrote: I know the chimney needs hot gases to work, Since it is reduced density generating the needed lift it seems to me you could use a well insulated stack and extract the heat at the last moment. True. However, as long as the stack remains inside my house, it contributes to space heating. snip If you want to discuss it on micro cogen it is fine with me. Cogen is cogen. I just advocate diesel because it is off the shelf and top efficiency. I haven't discussed it because my system isn't working! When I did this with steam, I ended up with less than 1% conversion efficiency from wood to electricity. If my math is right for the Rankine cycle, I'll end up with about 17% conversion efficiency using the lower temperature working fluid without superheat. That's more than enough! I can use the waste heat for domestic purposes. I suppose there would be lots of problems powering a Brayton cycle with wood. Charcoal might be ok but I think wood has lots of goop problems. I suppose your wood heated closed cycle is a reasonable compromise. The cyclical effect of wood burning, coupled with the high latent heat of water, stabilizes the expander's operation. I plan a vapor cycling system that only activates the expander when vapor pressure reaches a set point. (Batteries don't care if their charging is intermittent.) Wood burning also eliminates the need for feed stock pre treatment characteristic of gasification systems, and the serious energy losses involved in creating charcoal. It wouldn't be a perfect system, but it would be nice if I could actually get it to work! robert luis rabello Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Making Something From Nothing
Never seem to make it market? Geez, do a google on it you can buy all sorts of them from numerous manufacturers. I'm not on the computer where I have that stuff bookmarked or I'd post some -- but I'm also sure I've posted some before, if not here, perhaps at wastewatts. Look for thermoelectric generators TEG pelletier devices etc. One company is replacing semi-truck alternators with them in the exhaust. kirk wrote: I find on very windy days my 20 foot long pipe is marginal unless the fire is hot. I need that much lift to offset the partial pressure made by the wind. I haven't made any effort to capture the heat moving out the stack. Those thermoelectric semiconductors they are touting look interesting. They never seem to make it to market though. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Something for about $4 per watt
I am interested, I may want either of the 2 sizes. By no mounts, do you mean no frame? or simply no brackets. I don't think most panels come with mounts anyway. anton Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Glycerine pretreat
I would assume that since there are naturally some free fatty acids in oil, that they would have combined with some of the glycerol to make monoglycerides. If you also assume that there is a sort of equilibrium system going on, then the more glycerol means that the reaction is driven to create more oil molecules and leave less fatty acids. Does that make any sense? I hope so... JEFF --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], t_watchornnz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Back in December there was some talk on this subject by Paul Gobert and others. The subject being to use glycerine which still has some methanol and NAOH content to pre-treat oil used for bio-diesel. Has anyone done further experiments? I would like to give it a go. I did try mixing 1 litre of glycerine with 1 litre of used Canola oil at about 50 degC, mixing by hand now then over an hour. After 24 hours had about 250 mil Esters, 900 mil oil, 850 mil glycerine. Was surprised to see lest glycerine than oil. The oil layer had yellowy aerated look, and has stayed that way after 6 days (it was clean clear looking to start with) I presume it is just the oily middle layer that you then go on to process with the usual methods. I would welcome any pointers and guidance on the subject. I have about 150 litres in plastic pails I want to process. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] removing water from alcohol
Hey, I know many of you on the list as well as I have been trying to find ways to dry alcohol without using zeolites, etc... there has been the suggestion of using metallic potassium or sodium (very dangerous) but what I was thinking is that maybe using a K2O or Na2O (potassium or sodium oxide - not hydroxide) to consume the water? Since when left out in the open, the two oxides will absorb water to become KOH and NaOH respectively, why not use them to make KOH or NaOH in the solution? JEFF Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Making Something From Nothing
Harmon wrote: Never seem to make it market? Geez, do a google on it you can buy all sorts of them from numerous manufacturers. I'm not on the computer where I have that stuff bookmarked or I'd post some -- but I'm also sure I've posted some before, if not here, perhaps at wastewatts. Look for thermoelectric generators TEG pelletier devices etc. One company is replacing semi-truck alternators with them in the exhaust. This is one of your posts, there may have been others. Keith To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 10:18:09 -0600 From: Harmon Seaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: thermoelectric devices If you want to add a thermoelectric generator to a woodstove, I'd think it much more economical to buy just the basic modules rather than the quite expensive radiolantern or other commercial unit which would then have to be adapted. Here's a list of manufacturers and other info: http://www.peltier-info.com/generators.html Some of these things can be quite powerful: http://www.hi-z.com/websit07.htm However, let us remember, there's no free lunch. I'm wondering if taking heat from the stove might inhibit gasification? For instance, the outside wood boilers which have become popular in the US are horrible polluters, principally because the poor design surrounds the combustion chamber with the boiler, and combustion temperatures stay well below what is needed for real gasification. Also realize that these peltier devices all need heat on one side, but also cooling on the other, in order to generate electricity. The above 1KW unit, for instance, is cooled by the truck radiator. Here's a page which gives equations for the process: http://www.ferrotec-america.com/3ref13.htm -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com kirk wrote: I find on very windy days my 20 foot long pipe is marginal unless the fire is hot. I need that much lift to offset the partial pressure made by the wind. I haven't made any effort to capture the heat moving out the stack. Those thermoelectric semiconductors they are touting look interesting. They never seem to make it to market though. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Making Something From Nothing
My blathering* idiosyncrasies about heat, water and gasses brought me to a better understanding of what Lester R Brown wrote in his articles and the connection I drew from another รท impart said, If sea ice at the poles shrinks significantly, the earth could respond by warming because of a positive feedback loop, Jeffries said. With less sea ice, there's more open water. The open water collects energy from the sun in summer, which hampers the formation of sea ice when temperatures drop in the winter. With less sea ice at the poles, less sunlight is reflected. Sunlight that would have been reflected is absorbed by the water, which heats up and repeats the warming cycle. The Norwegian researchers say they can't determine the cause of the sea ice reduction, but it does match a pattern expected from greenhouse warming, where gases such as the carbon dioxide (exhaled by our vehicles and power plants) warm the planet by trapping heat. Geophysical Institute, University of Alaska Fairbanks Alaska Science Forum October 5, 1995 Sea Ice Reduction May Be Another Climate Change Clue by Ned Rozell Article #1255 http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF12/1255.html *I'll relent and turn this back to the [biofuel] carbon neutral list. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Trains - was Re: [biofuel] Making Something From Nothing
SkyTran http://www.SkyTran.net homepage How energy efficient is SkyTran? Mathematically compares: Light Rail, Diesel Bus, Auto, Electric Car, SkyTran (estimated at 200 plus mpg) http://www.SkyTran.net/faq/index.htm#efficient Keith Addison wrote: By the way, there's a major magazine that wants to run a big piece on trains, the lack thereof, in the US mainly, also elsewhere. I've been asked to write it, but backed off - too much research, too far away. I guess I could contribute on the elsewhere bit. Anyone know a trains guru/advocate with the whole thing at his fingertips who might be interested? Anyone like to contribute? It wouldn't be for a few months, but this could be a chance to to something about it, considering what Robert's been saying, all too true, and the figures that Tim posted previously - once again: Average BTU consumed Per Passenger mile by mode of travel: SUV: 4,591 Air: 4,123 Bus: 3,729 Car: 3,672 Train: 2,138 Source: Bureau of Transportation Statistics http://199.79.179.77/btsprod/nts/Ch4_web/4-20.htm Let me know. Thanks Keith Addison Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Making Something From Nothing
Been to the website. Is a proof of concept. Try to buy one. The only 2 companies selling are the Canadian outfit and Teledyne and both are higher than a giraffes butt. Only pencils under special circumstances. I have recommended them for repeaters where the batteries benefit from the heat and the area has several days in a row with no sun. - Original Message - From: Harmon Seaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 10:09 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Making Something From Nothing Never seem to make it market? Geez, do a google on it you can buy all sorts of them from numerous manufacturers. I'm not on the computer where I have that stuff bookmarked or I'd post some -- but I'm also sure I've posted some before, if not here, perhaps at wastewatts. Look for thermoelectric generators TEG pelletier devices etc. One company is replacing semi-truck alternators with them in the exhaust. kirk wrote: I find on very windy days my 20 foot long pipe is marginal unless the fire is hot. I need that much lift to offset the partial pressure made by the wind. I haven't made any effort to capture the heat moving out the stack. Those thermoelectric semiconductors they are touting look interesting. They never seem to make it to market though. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Making Something From Nothing
Which website is that? Did you check out this (http://www.peltier-info.com/generators.html) that Keith just posted, gives a whole list of manufacturers of TEGS, places to buy surplus one, etc. And the company doing the truck muffler definitely sells the TEGS, they gave me prices. While some of these have been expensive, the prices are dropping rapidly, they now are at or even lower than PV prices. kirk wrote: Been to the website. Is a proof of concept. Try to buy one. The only 2 companies selling are the Canadian outfit and Teledyne and both are higher than a giraffes butt. Only pencils under special circumstances. I have recommended them for repeaters where the batteries benefit from the heat and the area has several days in a row with no sun. - Original Message - From: Harmon Seaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 10:09 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Making Something From Nothing Never seem to make it market? Geez, do a google on it you can buy all sorts of them from numerous manufacturers. I'm not on the computer where I have that stuff bookmarked or I'd post some -- but I'm also sure I've posted some before, if not here, perhaps at wastewatts. Look for thermoelectric generators TEG pelletier devices etc. One company is replacing semi-truck alternators with them in the exhaust. kirk wrote: I find on very windy days my 20 foot long pipe is marginal unless the fire is hot. I need that much lift to offset the partial pressure made by the wind. I haven't made any effort to capture the heat moving out the stack. Those thermoelectric semiconductors they are touting look interesting. They never seem to make it to market though. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Making Something From Nothing
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I find on very windy days my 20 foot long pipe is marginal unless the fire is hot. I need that much lift to offset the partial pressure made by the wind. I haven't made any effort to capture the heat moving out the stack. Those thermoelectric semiconductors they are touting look interesting. They never seem to make it to market though. Kirk It sounds like you have a chimney and/or building problem. On the next windy day, try opening a window or door slightly on the upwind side of thee building. I'm speculating that the windward side of your building is fairly airtight compared to the downwind side, and the wind is causing a negative pressure from the downwind side, creating a pressure differential the chimney is trying to correct. Either seal up airleaks on the downwind side, or provide an inlet on the upwind side. Hope this helps, Motie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Making Something From Nothing
I emailed the truck site twice on different occassions with no response. If you have a URL for $5 a watt TEG please share. I would love to get some. Kirk - Original Message - From: Harmon Seaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Making Something From Nothing Which website is that? Did you check out this (http://www.peltier-info.com/generators.html) that Keith just posted, gives a whole list of manufacturers of TEGS, places to buy surplus one, etc. And the company doing the truck muffler definitely sells the TEGS, they gave me prices. While some of these have been expensive, the prices are dropping rapidly, they now are at or even lower than PV prices. kirk wrote: Been to the website. Is a proof of concept. Try to buy one. The only 2 companies selling are the Canadian outfit and Teledyne and both are higher than a giraffes butt. Only pencils under special circumstances. I have recommended them for repeaters where the batteries benefit from the heat and the area has several days in a row with no sun. - Original Message - From: Harmon Seaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 10:09 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Making Something From Nothing Never seem to make it market? Geez, do a google on it you can buy all sorts of them from numerous manufacturers. I'm not on the computer where I have that stuff bookmarked or I'd post some -- but I'm also sure I've posted some before, if not here, perhaps at wastewatts. Look for thermoelectric generators TEG pelletier devices etc. One company is replacing semi-truck alternators with them in the exhaust. kirk wrote: I find on very windy days my 20 foot long pipe is marginal unless the fire is hot. I need that much lift to offset the partial pressure made by the wind. I haven't made any effort to capture the heat moving out the stack. Those thermoelectric semiconductors they are touting look interesting. They never seem to make it to market though. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Making Something From Nothing
Log house. Been fixing drafts for years. Need to change all the windows as well to something designed for this climate. All I need is money. Don't we all. Kirk - Original Message - From: motie_d [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 1:25 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Making Something From Nothing --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I find on very windy days my 20 foot long pipe is marginal unless the fire is hot. I need that much lift to offset the partial pressure made by the wind. I haven't made any effort to capture the heat moving out the stack. Those thermoelectric semiconductors they are touting look interesting. They never seem to make it to market though. Kirk It sounds like you have a chimney and/or building problem. On the next windy day, try opening a window or door slightly on the upwind side of thee building. I'm speculating that the windward side of your building is fairly airtight compared to the downwind side, and the wind is causing a negative pressure from the downwind side, creating a pressure differential the chimney is trying to correct. Either seal up airleaks on the downwind side, or provide an inlet on the upwind side. Hope this helps, Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Mercedes HDI engine
I was told by a bloke today that there have been problems running Mercedes HDI engines on Biodiesel. He didn't know who was running them, what blend of bio or what problems, so perhaps it's another fairy story. Anybody heard anything about this? James Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] SVO water content
I've been talking to a farmer today who uses a diesel generator and also uses the heat generated. Here in Spain you can sell biomass produced electricity to the grid for a good price so I suggested he started running the genset on filtered WVO and sell the electricity. I wasn't sure about the water content but I advised him to get it out for now and that I'd try to find out. Was my advice correct or can you get away with leaving the water in?? Thanks in anticipation James Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Trains - was Re: [biofuel] Making Something From Nothing
Keith Addison wrote: By the way, there's a major magazine that wants to run a big piece on trains, the lack thereof, in the US mainly, also elsewhere. I've been asked to write it, but backed off - too much research, too far away. I guess I could contribute on the elsewhere bit. Anyone know a trains guru/advocate with the whole thing at his fingertips who might be interested? Anyone like to contribute? It wouldn't be for a few months, but this could be a chance to to something about it, considering what Robert's been saying, all too true, and the figures that Tim posted previously - once again: Average BTU consumed Per Passenger mile by mode of travel: SUV: 4,591 Air: 4,123 Bus: 3,729 Car: 3,672 Train: 2,138 Source: Bureau of Transportation Statistics http://199.79.179.77/btsprod/nts/Ch4_web/4-20.htm (notes from site above) NOTES: To calculate total Btu, multiply fuel consumed (see tables 4-21, 4-22, 4-24, 4-25) by 135,000 Btu/gallon for air carrier, 125,000 Btu/gallon for passenger car, other 2-axle 4-tire vehicle, and motorcycle, and 138,700 Btu/gallon for transit motor bus and Amtrak. MH wrote: What I'm trying to understand is mile-per-gallon per-passenger per-vehicle NOTE: all mpg rounded off SUV: 125,000 Btu/gallon divide by 4,591 BTUs Per Passenger mile = 27 mpg Air:135,000 Btu/gallon divide by 4,123 BTUs Per Passenger mile = 33 mpg Bus: 138,700 Btu/gallon divide by 3,729 BTUs Per Passenger mile = 37 mpg Car:125,000 Btu/gallon divide by 3,672 BTUs Per Passenger mile = 34 mpg Train: 138,700 Btu/gallon divide by 2,138 BTUs Per Passenger mile = 65 mpg Lupo: 138,700 divide by 100 mpg = 1,387 BTUs Per Passenger mile Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/iZp8OC/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Making Something From Nothing
kirk wrote: I emailed the truck site twice on different occassions with no response. If you have a URL for $5 a watt TEG please share. I would love to get some. Kirk Here's the prices I got from them back at the beginning of Dec. Note that he says these prices will soon drop. Here's a cheap site for pelletier devices, these seem to be designed for heating and cooling, not electric generation, but my understanding of the technology is that you can get either heat, cold, or power out of any of these modules -- apply juice, you get heat from one side, cold the other, apply heat (and cooling) you get power: http://www.tedist.com/modules/hiperf.html And here's a site: http://www.yankeescientific.com/html/free_watt.html that say: When the Free Watt furnace was built, themoelectric generators cost about $20 per watt of output. Dramatic cost reductions have been made with some current thermoelectric generators costing only $6 per watt. In the next few years it may be possible to purchase thermoelectric generators for as little as $2 per watt. You should also check out another page on this site, interesting low-power steam application. http://www.yankeescientific.com/html/lp_steam_furnace.html This one is oil-fired, but it could just as easily be wood-fired. So the Hi-Z units were about $12.60 @ watt back then, probably cheaper now, and yankeescientific says they are paying $6 @ watt. Original Message Subject: Your inquiry, 07 December Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 10:07:41 -0800 From: Dan Allen, Hi-Z Technology, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix Dear Mr. Seaver: Our prices FOB San Diego, plus shipping. Availability is a problem at this time due to high demand for our modules. HZ-2$ 87 no schedule for volume discounts has been prepared HZ-14 1 - 9 $ 195 each 10 - 99 $ 175 each 100 - 599 $ 140 each 600 - 999 $ 124 each 1000 - 1999 $ 99 each HZ-20 1 - 9 $ 235 each 10 - 99 $ 210 each 100 - 599 $ 180 each 600 - 999 $ 149 each 1000 - 1999 $ 120 each I am told we may be reducing these prices soon, but this is our current pricing. In most applications you must use insulating wafers on both sides of the module. We recommend the use of heat transfer paste with these wafers. (Refer to the information on our Internet web-site concerning the use and application of the modules:http://www.hi-z.com/how-to.htm) Hi-Z can provide these materials also: HZ-14 ceramic wafers (two needed) $ 3 each HZ-20 ceramic wafers (two needed) $ 5 each 2 oz. heat transfer paste $15 Hi-Z does not sell a wafer sized for the HZ-2. For the HZ-2 you will want to get the HZ-14 wafer and either cut it down to size using a diamond scribe or use it as is. (One HZ-14 wafer will give you material for four HZ-2 wafers, but buy extra unless you are experienced at cutting thin ceramic.) We prefer to ship by USPS Express Mail [Global Express Mail (EMS) to Canada] for smaller orders, but shipment can be requested by FedEx, UPS or standard mail. Please be sure to specify shipment method. Sales tax of 7.5% is added to shipments within the state of California, unless the purchaser is a government agency or unless the order is indicated for resale and a California resale number is provided to us with the order. We accept Purchase Orders by mail or FAX (858 695 8870) from recognized US and Canadian businesses and government agencies. For sales to individuals we ask for payment in advance. Orders or payments in Canadian funds are not accepted. We do not have the facility to take payment by credit card. Yours sincerely, Dan Allen staff engineer Hi-Z Technology, Inc. 7606 Miramar Road San Diego CA 92126 4210 tel.: 858 695 6660 -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/iZp8OC/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Making Something From Nothing
Here's another interesting technology to use with wood fires, not a TEG, but a TPV, thermophotovoltaic. Essentially uses the heat and light from the fire to produce electricity. http://www.jxcrystals.com/ -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/iZp8OC/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Making Something From Nothing
check out www.allelectronics.com they have some peltier junction units. anton -Original Message- From: Harmon Seaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 4:09 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Making Something From Nothing Here's another interesting technology to use with wood fires, not a TEG, but a TPV, thermophotovoltaic. Essentially uses the heat and light from the fire to produce electricity. http://www.jxcrystals.com/ -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/iZp8OC/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] SVO water content
James, It is my understanding that H2O in SVO can possibly cause two problems: 1. Injector pump damage. and 2.Delay of the flame front during combustion. This in turn may have cummulative effect due to ecessive heat at valves and also downstream in the exhaust manifold or turbocharger (if so equipped). Since it is relativly easy to make certain that no H2O is present in the SVO I would suggest that this would be a common sense measure to take. You might consider using the waste heat from the generator itself to accomplish this. Are you also familiar with the reasons for heating the SVO prior to injection and also possibly the advantages of special injectors for SVO? Indirect injection vs. direct injection? Purging with diesel/biodiesel? If not I would suggest searching the archives of this list as well as the vegoil list. They are both loaded with useful information. Some of the older SVO generator data used non-preheated oil as fuel so if you run across data that indicates problems...look for any indication that they used these techniques or just ran cold SVO. Also the waste heat might also prove useful as well as saleable. co-generation Good Luck, Dana --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been talking to a farmer today who uses a diesel generator and also uses the heat generated. Here in Spain you can sell biomass produced electricity to the grid for a good price so I suggested he started running the genset on filtered WVO and sell the electricity. I wasn't sure about the water content but I advised him to get it out for now and that I'd try to find out. Was my advice correct or can you get away with leaving the water in?? Thanks in anticipation James __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] removing water from alcohol
You could do that. The metallic Potassium would react quicker (and safely) though you are right to avoid the metallic sodium. The other advantage of the metallic potassium is that it will react with the water as well as the alcohol. The end result is a mixture of KOH and CH3CH2OK. The potassium salt of the alcohol is even more potent than the KOH as a base. The reaction would generate hydrogen gas which could be captured and used elsewhere (or sold) and you would be able to determine an endpoint very easily (keep adding the metal until you have some metal in the bottom of the container, and all of your water is gone and your alcohol is now a very potent base). Then all you would need to do would be to add your vegetable oil and process it to biodiesel. You end up with ethyl-ester biodiesel, glycerine, and potassium hydroxide (fairly pure potassium hydroxide which could be used elsewhere). jmwelter wrote: Hey, I know many of you on the list as well as I have been trying to find ways to dry alcohol without using zeolites, etc... there has been the suggestion of using metallic potassium or sodium (very dangerous) but what I was thinking is that maybe using a K2O or Na2O (potassium or sodium oxide - not hydroxide) to consume the water? Since when left out in the open, the two oxides will absorb water to become KOH and NaOH respectively, why not use them to make KOH or NaOH in the solution? JEFF Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Stock for $4. No Minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/BgmYkB/VovDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Making Something From Nothing
Devices made for cooling will work but not as efficiently as devices made for TEG work. The doping is different so they tell me. The TPV data I've seen so far claims higher conversion efficiency. I called the people with the pellet stove but they are only doing tests in Washington state. Kirk - Original Message - From: Anton Berteaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 6:20 PM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Making Something From Nothing check out www.allelectronics.com they have some peltier junction units. anton -Original Message- From: Harmon Seaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 4:09 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Making Something From Nothing Here's another interesting technology to use with wood fires, not a TEG, but a TPV, thermophotovoltaic. Essentially uses the heat and light from the fire to produce electricity. http://www.jxcrystals.com/ -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
