So the PEM fuel cells range from 81% or 50% or 36 - 40 % at full load.
Any of you EV or H2 folks familiar with --
Safe Hydrogen Storage Solution May Enable
Earlier Shift to Fuel-Cell Powered Autos
Safe Hydrogen storage technology provides hydrogen to a car with a fuel
tank only about
- Original Message -
From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: [evworld] Re: [biofuel] GM rethinks hydrogen fuel cells
Hakan Falk wrote:
Hi MM,
The number they give for hydrogen is 10%, you get
malcolm.scott wrote:
Could you give us a reference for that 80% too. I don't study the subject
but from what I've read you'd be lucky to get that 80% even with heat
recovery.
Malcolm
I should know better than to state something without checking facts! The
80% figure was one I
What are you guys talking about?
There is no energy conversion that I'm aware that adds energy out of
nowhere (i.e., that violates the laws of physics as they are presently
discussed). Maybe your use of the word gain is meant to be
something different?
I took Hakan's .25% figure to be hard to
Hi MM,
The number they give for hydrogen is 10%, you get 100 and put in
90 in the electrolyses. This is a single step process and if you
define efficiency as from well to wheel and use hydrogen as energy
source for process, you get 0.25% assuming fuel cells with 50%
efficiency. (Only need to
One of the things that might be confusing is
50% or 50 percent is written mathematically as 0.50
The web page,
entitled:Efficiency of Fuel Cells
subtitle: Fuel-Cell-Powered Electric Car
when doing the calculations;
80 percent - efficiency of the electric motor/inverter
x
Hakan Falk wrote:
Hi MM,
The number they give for hydrogen is 10%, you get 100 and put in
90 in the electrolyses. This is a single step process and if you
define efficiency as from well to wheel and use hydrogen as energy
source for process, you get 0.25% assuming fuel cells with 50%
Robert,
We see so much claims of numbers in producing hydrogen,
so we do not know what to believe. It is good, because it
might be a chance here. My point is really not the exact
numbers, this will be disclosed and more exact soon. It is
the stage of the technology. How I turn this issue, I can
Hi Robert, a couple of responses below
and sorry to others for not snipping but
I found it very difficult.
robert luis rabello wrote:
I think your figures are deflated. Hydrogen isn't ideal as an energy
carrier, but it isn't THAT bad! A kilogram of H2 (roughly equal to a gallon
of
MH wrote:
Hi Robert, a couple of responses below
and sorry to others for not snipping but
I found it very difficult.
Thank you for the link on H2 generating efficiency!
You're welcome! This has been a personal interest of mine since the Gemini
and
Apollo programs proved that
I think that the success of Hydrogen, either via ICE or Fuel Cell will
entirely depend on public acceptance. The CNG technology has been out for
quite some time for home an puplic infructure use and it's acceptance is
marginal as far as alternative fuels go, mostly in fleets at best. What
will
Success of hydrogen is going to depend on its energy net gain. The current
over all 0.25% through electrolyses, has only been improved with platinum
as catalyzer. If they find something, it can be improved with 3 to 4 times
and be better or as good as gasoline and diesel.
Hakan
At 08:59 AM
True. I just didn't put that in cause I was looking at a more acceptance
issue. But yes, until there is a net energy GAIN, there won't even be
large production, or it will be expensive; both cost and energy wise.
James Slayden
On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Hakan Falk wrote:
Success of hydrogen is
One of the problems (I think) associated with
liquid and electric vehicles is when comparing
energy derived at a given weight,
Lead acid battery___1x
Ethanol50x
E8580x
Gasoline_100x
I'm unsure of the source of these figures and
question how it
Acutally, if your calculations are correct, electricity doesn't look half
bad. :) Even better if TOU net metering with some solar was taken in to
account. We also have to take the energy conversion of the vehicle system
which EV's come out way ahead of ICE vehicles, no matter what fuel is
Acutally, if your calculations are correct, electricity doesn't look half
bad. :) Even better if TOU net metering with some solar was taken in to
account. We also have to take the energy conversion of the vehicle system
which EV's come out way ahead of ICE vehicles, no matter what fuel is
lead acid. Not only
charge/discharge losses but weight as well.
Diesel or Bourke for prime mover. Maybe some day fuel cells.
Kirk
-Original Message-
From: MH [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 12:44 PM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [evworld] Re: [biofuel] GM
12:44 PM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [evworld] Re: [biofuel] GM rethinks hydrogen fuel cells
One of the problems (I think) associated with
liquid and electric vehicles is when comparing
energy derived at a given weight,
Lead acid battery___1x
Ethanol50x
http://www.skeleton-technologies.com/supcap6.htm
Some pdf you can download there.
-Original Message-
From: James Slayden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 6:01 PM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [evworld] Re: [biofuel] GM rethinks hydrogen fuel cells
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