Re: [biofuel] Making Methanol from Glycerin ( was Re: Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans )
Hello Art, - Original Message - From: "Art Krenzel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, June 11, 2004 2:43 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Making Methanol from Glycerin ( was Re: Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans ) > Bob, > > I have worked with the biomass gasification process for quite a few years and the conversion efficiency of biomass carbon to methanol is more in the 20% region. Check http://www.refuelnet.de/content/refuelnet/pdf/SOMFB_99.pdf Very happy to learn of your work. I am personally involved in gasification of woody biomass for heat and power applications. Gasification conversion efficiency in the cold gas is ~80 - 85%. We have done some work in India on conversion of diesel to gas engines (> 5,000 hours on generators) with overall electrical conversion efficiency on smaller gas engines of 22-25% on HHV of biomass. Withal the delivered cost of energy per kWh is ~ US c 3.7 viz. less than half of what industry is charged by the utilities (~ US c 10/kWh). Was your work on up, down or crossdraft ? Did you use it for power generation or for thermal energy only ? What was the process followed for conversion of syngas to methanol ? What were the stage wise yields of methanol and the energy balance ? > At today's natural gas prices, it is cheaper to produce methanol via gas synthesis than produce it via fermentation. Hang on though, prices might be changing soon. The real energy loser in the fermentation process (after production costs) is concentrating the methanol from a dilute water solution to a fuel quality liquid. It would be interesting to compare the costs in the tropics. The energy cost comparison heavily tilts the balance to biomass. For instance, the landed cost of wet (~30%) as cut wood in most urban centres in India is about US c 2.3/kg. The delivered cost of usable energy via gasification is ~ US $ 3.5/GJ @ 80% gasification efficiency. 'Natural gas' retails at US $ 9.2/GJ. Regards, balaji Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Making Methanol from Glycerin ( was Re: Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans )
Keith, this message posted back on the 5th of June why is it, and many other old messages being reposted? Greg H. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 23:48 Subject: [biofuel] Making Methanol from Glycerin ( was Re: Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans ) You know, I wasn't fully awake and definitely was not tracking correctly when I first read the subject line, but, I think that it was probably a good thing. What I read was Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol ( totally missed the condenser part ), and was thinking that here was a idea that allowed people to use the glycerin by-product to make methanol. When I read the message, I realized that I had made a mistake, but, thinking about that mistake, I thought that it might just be possible. Now I'm sure that someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but, does not water and glycerin mix well? Then if that is the case, the solution would be a water / hydrogen & carbon solution, similar to that of sugar water, which according to Walt Patrick mentioned can be used to produce Syn Gas, then converted to methanol. Please, let me know your thoughts about this possibility. Greg H. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Making Methanol from Glycerin ( was Re: Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans )
Greg, the only problem I can see here is there is a whole bunch of chemistry and even more engineering between the start and finish, and can this be done in an energy efficient manner. Or would it be more efficient to just burn the glycerin in some sort of bulk oil burner? Greg Harbican wrote: >Todd and Bob, > >I'm was thinking of this message from Walt Patrick: > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/message/30084 > >The relevant part, is this paragraph: > >"Another nifty patent to come down the pike involves using a 36 volt arc to >decompose a solution of some organic in water producing syngas. Because of >the presence of a carbon material, the plasma from the arc generates not a >mix of H2 and O2, but rather H2 and CO. Whereas the former is explosive, >the latter is not and can be stored for later conversion to methanol, which >in turn can be used as an automotive fuel." > >I am thinking that it should be possible to use a glycerin / water solution to >produce syngas and from there catalyze it to methanol, without the use of high >temps or bacteria. > >Greg H. > > > > >- Original Message - >From: Appal Energy >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 15:18 >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Making Methanol from Glycerin ( was Re: Biodiesel >Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans ) > > >You can always ferment glycerol into ethanol, that is if you don't mind >working with the strains of botulinum bacteria necessary to get high >conversions. > >And yup. You probably could get methanol from glycerol, if the appropriate >fractionating and pressurization equipment were available. > >He would need a chemical engineer on this one. > >Todd Swearingen > > >And: > - Original Message ----- > From: bob allen > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 14:45 > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Making Methanol from Glycerin ( was Re: Biodiesel > Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans ) > > > no problem in principle. Any starch/sugar/cellulosic material can be > thermally degraded to to a mixture of gases and light liquids.(often > referred to as destructive distillation) Catalytic reforming should > yield methanol. The only problem, an engineering feat rather than a > chemical problem would be optimizing yield. On an industrial scale, you > only get about a 50 % energy return going from green timber to > methanol. A bacterial fermentation may also be possible to produce > methanol or other alcohols from glycerol. > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Biofuels list archives: >http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. >To unsubscribe, send an email to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > -- Bob Allen, http://ozarker.org/bob = The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness JKG Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Making Methanol from Glycerin ( was Re: Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans )
Greg, the only problem here is their is a whole bunch on chemistry and even more engineering between the start and finish, and can this be done in an energy efficient manner. Or would it be better to just burn the glycerin in some sort of bulk oil burner? Greg Harbican wrote: >Todd and Bob, > >I'm was thinking of this message from Walt Patrick: > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/message/30084 > >The relevant part, is this paragraph: > >"Another nifty patent to come down the pike involves using a 36 volt arc to >decompose a solution of some organic in water producing syngas. Because of >the presence of a carbon material, the plasma from the arc generates not a >mix of H2 and O2, but rather H2 and CO. Whereas the former is explosive, >the latter is not and can be stored for later conversion to methanol, which >in turn can be used as an automotive fuel." > >I am thinking that it should be possible to use a glycerin / water solution to >produce syngas and from there catalyze it to methanol, without the use of high >temps or bacteria. > >Greg H. > > > > >- Original Message - >From: Appal Energy >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 15:18 >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Making Methanol from Glycerin ( was Re: Biodiesel >Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans ) > > >You can always ferment glycerol into ethanol, that is if you don't mind >working with the strains of botulinum bacteria necessary to get high >conversions. > >And yup. You probably could get methanol from glycerol, if the appropriate >fractionating and pressurization equipment were available. > >He would need a chemical engineer on this one. > >Todd Swearingen > > >And: > - Original Message ----- > From: bob allen > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 14:45 > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Making Methanol from Glycerin ( was Re: Biodiesel > Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans ) > > > no problem in principle. Any starch/sugar/cellulosic material can be > thermally degraded to to a mixture of gases and light liquids.(often > referred to as destructive distillation) Catalytic reforming should > yield methanol. The only problem, an engineering feat rather than a > chemical problem would be optimizing yield. On an industrial scale, you > only get about a 50 % energy return going from green timber to > methanol. A bacterial fermentation may also be possible to produce > methanol or other alcohols from glycerol. > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Biofuels list archives: >http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. >To unsubscribe, send an email to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > -- Bob Allen, http://ozarker.org/bob = The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness JKG Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Making Methanol from Glycerin ( was Re: Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans )
Art Krenzel wrote: >Bob, > >I have worked with the biomass gasification process for quite a few years and >the conversion efficiency of biomass carbon to methanol is more in the 20% >region. Check http://www.refuelnet.de/content/refuelnet/pdf/SOMFB_99.pdf > > Thanks for the correction , Art. I was operating from what I thought I read several years back, and was trying to be generous about the possible yield, mainly to make the point that the low energy return really makes the process unattractive. >At today's natural gas prices, it is cheaper to produce methanol via gas >synthesis than produce it via fermentation. Hang on though, prices might be >changing soon. > agreed. We (USA) are sucking about all the methane we can get now from north America and the only way to expand sources is by shipping LNG in. In a related thought, I wondered why we set up shop in Qatar for our invasion of Iraq, until I checked global natural gas reserves. Qatar has huge reserves (I think second or third largest world wide). Further, the gas is in formations that are highly concentrated and very near the coast, to facilitate collection and shipping. So its no wonder we want a strong military presence there. > The real energy loser in the fermentation process (after production costs) is > concentrating the methanol from a dilute water solution to a fuel quality > liquid. > > I am still interested in learning about a direct process to convert glycerin to any type of fuel. I can do it but not efficiently, certainly not in cost and probably not even efficiently on an energy basis: Take the glycerin/ NaOH/ methanol soup left over from the biodiesel prep and treat it with excess dimethyl sulfate. this will produce a mixture of dimethyl ether (a gas which could be burned to recover energy) and 1,2,3- trimethoxypropane, which could used as a blend or substitute for gasoline. I have done it on a very small lab scale to show that it works but that is as far as I have gone with the idea. >Art Krenzel, P.E. >PHOENIX TECHNOLOGIES >10505 NE 285TH Street >Battle Ground, WA 98604 >360-666-1883 voice >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > >- Original Message - > From: bob allen > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 1:45 PM > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Making Methanol from Glycerin ( was Re: Biodiesel > Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans ) > > > no problem in principle. Any starch/sugar/cellulosic material can be > thermally degraded to to a mixture of gases and light liquids.(often > referred to as destructive distillation) Catalytic reforming should > yield methanol. The only problem, an engineering feat rather than a > chemical problem would be optimizing yield. On an industrial scale, you > only get about a 50 % energy return going from green timber to > methanol. A bacterial fermentation may also be possible to produce > methanol or other alcohols from glycerol. > > > A > > > Keith Addison wrote: > > >Hasn't anyone got an answer or some info for Greg? This is an > >interesting possibility, if it is one. > > > >Best wishes > > > >Keith > > > > > > > > > >>Can anyone spot flaws in my theory? > >> > >>Greg H. > >> - Original Message - > >> From: Greg Harbican > >> To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > >> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2004 10:14 > >> Subject: [biofuel] Making Methanol from Glycerin ( was Re: > >>Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans ) > >> > >> > >> You know, I wasn't fully awake and definitely was not tracking > >>correctly when I first read the subject line, but, I think that it > >>was probably a good thing. > >> > >> What I read was Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol ( totally missed > >>the condenser part ), and was thinking that here was a idea that > >>allowed people to use the glycerin by-product to make methanol. > >>When I read the message, I realized that I had made a mistake, but, > >>thinking about that mistake, I thought that it might just be > >>possible. > >> > >> Now I'm sure that someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but, does > >>not water and glycerin mix well? > >> > >> Then if that is the case, the solution would be a water / hydrogen > >>& carbon solution, similar to that of sugar water, which according > >>to Walt Patrick mentioned can be used to produce Syn Gas, then > >>converted to methanol. > >> > >> Please, let me know
Re: [biofuel] Making Methanol from Glycerin ( was Re: Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans )
Bob, I have worked with the biomass gasification process for quite a few years and the conversion efficiency of biomass carbon to methanol is more in the 20% region. Check http://www.refuelnet.de/content/refuelnet/pdf/SOMFB_99.pdf At today's natural gas prices, it is cheaper to produce methanol via gas synthesis than produce it via fermentation. Hang on though, prices might be changing soon. The real energy loser in the fermentation process (after production costs) is concentrating the methanol from a dilute water solution to a fuel quality liquid. I am still interested in learning about a direct process to convert glycerin to any type of fuel. Art Krenzel, P.E. PHOENIX TECHNOLOGIES 10505 NE 285TH Street Battle Ground, WA 98604 360-666-1883 voice [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: bob allen To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 1:45 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Making Methanol from Glycerin ( was Re: Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans ) no problem in principle. Any starch/sugar/cellulosic material can be thermally degraded to to a mixture of gases and light liquids.(often referred to as destructive distillation) Catalytic reforming should yield methanol. The only problem, an engineering feat rather than a chemical problem would be optimizing yield. On an industrial scale, you only get about a 50 % energy return going from green timber to methanol. A bacterial fermentation may also be possible to produce methanol or other alcohols from glycerol. A Keith Addison wrote: >Hasn't anyone got an answer or some info for Greg? This is an >interesting possibility, if it is one. > >Best wishes > >Keith > > > > >>Can anyone spot flaws in my theory? >> >>Greg H. >> - Original Message - >> From: Greg Harbican >> To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2004 10:14 >> Subject: [biofuel] Making Methanol from Glycerin ( was Re: >>Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans ) >> >> >> You know, I wasn't fully awake and definitely was not tracking >>correctly when I first read the subject line, but, I think that it >>was probably a good thing. >> >> What I read was Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol ( totally missed >>the condenser part ), and was thinking that here was a idea that >>allowed people to use the glycerin by-product to make methanol. >>When I read the message, I realized that I had made a mistake, but, >>thinking about that mistake, I thought that it might just be >>possible. >> >> Now I'm sure that someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but, does >>not water and glycerin mix well? >> >> Then if that is the case, the solution would be a water / hydrogen >>& carbon solution, similar to that of sugar water, which according >>to Walt Patrick mentioned can be used to produce Syn Gas, then >>converted to methanol. >> >> Please, let me know your thoughts about this possibility. >> >> Greg H. >> >> > > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Biofuels list archives: >http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. >To unsubscribe, send an email to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > -- Bob Allen, Professor of Chemistry http://ozarker.org/bob Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers. Article 19 of The Declaration of Human Rights, adopted by the United Nations General Assembly,10 December 1948: ~~~ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT -- Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EM
Re: [biofuel] Making Methanol from Glycerin ( was Re: Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans )
Todd and Bob, I'm was thinking of this message from Walt Patrick: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/message/30084 The relevant part, is this paragraph: "Another nifty patent to come down the pike involves using a 36 volt arc to decompose a solution of some organic in water producing syngas. Because of the presence of a carbon material, the plasma from the arc generates not a mix of H2 and O2, but rather H2 and CO. Whereas the former is explosive, the latter is not and can be stored for later conversion to methanol, which in turn can be used as an automotive fuel." I am thinking that it should be possible to use a glycerin / water solution to produce syngas and from there catalyze it to methanol, without the use of high temps or bacteria. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 15:18 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Making Methanol from Glycerin ( was Re: Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans ) You can always ferment glycerol into ethanol, that is if you don't mind working with the strains of botulinum bacteria necessary to get high conversions. And yup. You probably could get methanol from glycerol, if the appropriate fractionating and pressurization equipment were available. He would need a chemical engineer on this one. Todd Swearingen And: - Original Message - From: bob allen To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 14:45 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Making Methanol from Glycerin ( was Re: Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans ) no problem in principle. Any starch/sugar/cellulosic material can be thermally degraded to to a mixture of gases and light liquids.(often referred to as destructive distillation) Catalytic reforming should yield methanol. The only problem, an engineering feat rather than a chemical problem would be optimizing yield. On an industrial scale, you only get about a 50 % energy return going from green timber to methanol. A bacterial fermentation may also be possible to produce methanol or other alcohols from glycerol. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Making Methanol from Glycerin ( was Re: Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans )
no problem in principle. Any starch/sugar/cellulosic material can be thermally degraded to to a mixture of gases and light liquids.(often referred to as destructive distillation) Catalytic reforming should yield methanol. The only problem, an engineering feat rather than a chemical problem would be optimizing yield. On an industrial scale, you only get about a 50 % energy return going from green timber to methanol. A bacterial fermentation may also be possible to produce methanol or other alcohols from glycerol. A Keith Addison wrote: >Hasn't anyone got an answer or some info for Greg? This is an >interesting possibility, if it is one. > >Best wishes > >Keith > > > > >>Can anyone spot flaws in my theory? >> >>Greg H. >> - Original Message - >> From: Greg Harbican >> To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >> Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2004 10:14 >> Subject: [biofuel] Making Methanol from Glycerin ( was Re: >>Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans ) >> >> >> You know, I wasn't fully awake and definitely was not tracking >>correctly when I first read the subject line, but, I think that it >>was probably a good thing. >> >> What I read was Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol ( totally missed >>the condenser part ), and was thinking that here was a idea that >>allowed people to use the glycerin by-product to make methanol. >>When I read the message, I realized that I had made a mistake, but, >>thinking about that mistake, I thought that it might just be >>possible. >> >> Now I'm sure that someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but, does >>not water and glycerin mix well? >> >> Then if that is the case, the solution would be a water / hydrogen >>& carbon solution, similar to that of sugar water, which according >>to Walt Patrick mentioned can be used to produce Syn Gas, then >>converted to methanol. >> >> Please, let me know your thoughts about this possibility. >> >> Greg H. >> >> > > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Biofuels list archives: >http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. >To unsubscribe, send an email to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > -- Bob Allen, Professor of Chemistry http://ozarker.org/bob Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers. Article 19 of The Declaration of Human Rights, adopted by the United Nations General Assembly,10 December 1948: ~~~ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Making Methanol from Glycerin ( was Re: Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans )
You can always ferment glycerol into ethanol, that is if you don't mind working with the strains of botulinum bacteria necessary to get high conversions. And yup. You probably could get methanol from glycerol, if the appropriate fractionating and pressurization equipment were available. He would need a chemical engineer on this one. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2004 9:47 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Making Methanol from Glycerin ( was Re: Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans ) > Hasn't anyone got an answer or some info for Greg? This is an > interesting possibility, if it is one. > > Best wishes > > Keith > > > >Can anyone spot flaws in my theory? > > > >Greg H. > > - Original Message - > > From: Greg Harbican > > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2004 10:14 > > Subject: [biofuel] Making Methanol from Glycerin ( was Re: > >Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans ) > > > > > > You know, I wasn't fully awake and definitely was not tracking > >correctly when I first read the subject line, but, I think that it > >was probably a good thing. > > > > What I read was Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol ( totally missed > >the condenser part ), and was thinking that here was a idea that > >allowed people to use the glycerin by-product to make methanol. > >When I read the message, I realized that I had made a mistake, but, > >thinking about that mistake, I thought that it might just be > >possible. > > > > Now I'm sure that someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but, does > >not water and glycerin mix well? > > > > Then if that is the case, the solution would be a water / hydrogen > >& carbon solution, similar to that of sugar water, which according > >to Walt Patrick mentioned can be used to produce Syn Gas, then > >converted to methanol. > > > > Please, let me know your thoughts about this possibility. > > > > Greg H. > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Making Methanol from Glycerin ( was Re: Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans )
Hasn't anyone got an answer or some info for Greg? This is an interesting possibility, if it is one. Best wishes Keith >Can anyone spot flaws in my theory? > >Greg H. > - Original Message - > From: Greg Harbican > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2004 10:14 > Subject: [biofuel] Making Methanol from Glycerin ( was Re: >Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans ) > > > You know, I wasn't fully awake and definitely was not tracking >correctly when I first read the subject line, but, I think that it >was probably a good thing. > > What I read was Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol ( totally missed >the condenser part ), and was thinking that here was a idea that >allowed people to use the glycerin by-product to make methanol. >When I read the message, I realized that I had made a mistake, but, >thinking about that mistake, I thought that it might just be >possible. > > Now I'm sure that someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but, does >not water and glycerin mix well? > > Then if that is the case, the solution would be a water / hydrogen >& carbon solution, similar to that of sugar water, which according >to Walt Patrick mentioned can be used to produce Syn Gas, then >converted to methanol. > > Please, let me know your thoughts about this possibility. > > Greg H. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Making Methanol from Glycerin ( was Re: Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans )
Can anyone spot flaws in my theory? Greg H. - Original Message - From: Greg Harbican To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2004 10:14 Subject: [biofuel] Making Methanol from Glycerin ( was Re: Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol Condensor plans ) You know, I wasn't fully awake and definitely was not tracking correctly when I first read the subject line, but, I think that it was probably a good thing. What I read was Biodiesel Glycerin-to-Methanol ( totally missed the condenser part ), and was thinking that here was a idea that allowed people to use the glycerin by-product to make methanol. When I read the message, I realized that I had made a mistake, but, thinking about that mistake, I thought that it might just be possible. Now I'm sure that someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but, does not water and glycerin mix well? Then if that is the case, the solution would be a water / hydrogen & carbon solution, similar to that of sugar water, which according to Walt Patrick mentioned can be used to produce Syn Gas, then converted to methanol. Please, let me know your thoughts about this possibility. Greg H. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70 http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM ~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
