I prefer "\" as the consistent escape character in Swift. It's used in many
programming languages and (I find it) easy to skim over.
- David
> On 23 Jun 2016, at 22:21, James Hillhouse via swift-evolution
> wrote:
>
> I’m going to register a -1 on this proposal. I
I’m going to register a -1 on this proposal. I appreciate the work that went
into it, but I just don’t think any advantages for the developer community as a
whole weight enough to warrant the change.
> On Jun 23, 2016, at 4:41 AM, Jeremy Pereira via swift-evolution
>
> On 22 Jun 2016, at 17:27, Brandon Knope wrote:
>
> Of course \ is not needed a lot but when it is, *it is inconvenient for
> *some* people*. I am not making this up. You can cite several other users
> from this very thread.
That’s the point. Convenient key stroke sequences
> Le 22 juin 2016 à 12:27, Brandon Knope via swift-evolution
> a écrit :
>
> I really don’t understand why we are wasting everyone’s time debating this.
>
> Yes I think there is a correlation. Yes this is precisely why I posted the
> heat map.
>
> Of course \ is
> On Jun 22, 2016, at 4:19 AM, Haravikk via swift-evolution
> wrote:
>
> The following two lines are equivalent:
>
> return "Value of foo is \(foo), have a nice day!"
> return "Value of foo is " + foo + "have a nice day!" // Assuming foo is
> a String
I really don’t understand why we are wasting everyone’s time debating this.
Yes I think there is a correlation. Yes this is precisely why I posted the heat
map.
Of course \ is not needed a lot, but when it is, *it is inconvenient for *some*
people*. I am not making this up. You can cite
> On 22 Jun 2016, at 16:41, Brandon Knope wrote:
>
> My point was not to argue for the removal of \. My point was that there is a
> measurable way to test the usability of such a key
Your heat map doesn’t test the usability of a key, it tests the frequency with
which it was
> On 22 Jun 2016, at 09:39, Goffredo Marocchi via swift-evolution
> wrote:
>
> Sorry, but can you explain why the character used to escape strings is
> also the best choice to do Variable value extraction/String interpolation?
> They are two different
My point was not to argue for the removal of \. My point was that there is a
measurable way to test the usability of such a key
Brandon
> On Jun 22, 2016, at 11:30 AM, Jeremy Pereira
> wrote:
>
> I find it somewhat disturbing that we are now trying to base
> On 22.6.2016, at 1.10, Daniel Resnick via swift-evolution
> wrote:
>
> I also disagree for the same reasons that Gwynne and Brent mentioned: I find
> '\(...)' easy to read, fine to type, and consistent with other string
> escaping syntax.
+1
I’m using Finnish
I find it somewhat disturbing that we are now trying to base language design
around the layout of a US English keyboard.
“\” on my keyboard (British Macbook Pro Retina) is right next to the return
key. It’s also much closer to the parentheses characters than $ is and (if you
assume we are
On 22 Jun 2016, at 09:39, Goffredo Marocchi via swift-evolution
wrote:
>
> Sorry, but can you explain why the character used to escape strings is
> also the best choice to do Variable value extraction/String interpolation?
> They are two different concepts.
I'll stick with Gwynne here. Each language has its syntax for
interpolating string and as such I don't see a reason to change this.
As for formatting, I agree it is an issue but we have to remember that
inside \() we have code that can do pretty much everything one may
need. You may even add a
> So in a way you can think of \() as being a means of escaping from the string
> entirely. I find this more logical than the idea which other languages
> encourage which is that the variable is somehow embedded inside the string,
> which is why I actually really like having escape do this in
> On 22 Jun 2016, at 09:39, Goffredo Marocchi via swift-evolution
> wrote:
>
> Sorry, but can you explain why the character used to escape strings is
> also the best choice to do Variable value extraction/String interpolation?
> They are two different
Sorry, but can you explain why the character used to escape strings is also
the best choice to do Variable value extraction/String interpolation? They
are two different concepts.
Sent from my iPhone
On 22 Jun 2016, at 09:28, Charlie Monroe via swift-evolution
> I agree. As a user of a German keyboard, "\" is written as Alt-Shift-7 (there
> isn't even a label on the keyboard, you just have to know this. The "7" key
> says "7" and "/" - I'm talking about the German Mac Keyboard, the standalone
> version of the Mac Mini and the Notebook Version of
An argument could be made that the '\' character is used to escape and when you
are doing string interpolation/printing you are clearly doing an operation more
similar to bash's use of '$' to extract the value of a variable than escaping.
The need to logically separate escaping from parameter
> Am 22.06.2016 um 02:11 schrieb Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution
> :
>
>
> on Tue Jun 21 2016, Brandon Knope wrote:
>
>> Maybe this is flawed, but I think it is hard to argue that the \ is
>> easy to type when there are far more usable
> On 21 Jun 2016, at 22:49, Gwynne Raskind via swift-evolution
> wrote:
>
>> On Jun 21, 2016, at 15:48, Jonathan Cotton via swift-evolution
>> > wrote:
>>
>> I'd support $() as is in use by other
> On 22.6.2016, at 1.10, Daniel Resnick via swift-evolution
> > wrote:
>
> I also disagree for the same reasons that Gwynne and Brent mentioned: I find
> '\(...)' easy to read, fine to type, and consistent with other string
>
> On Jun 21, 2016, at 3:51 PM, Jordan Rose via swift-evolution
> wrote:
>
>
>> On Jun 21, 2016, at 15:26, Xiaodi Wu via swift-evolution
>> > wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 5:10 PM, Daniel Resnick
Sent from my iPad
> On Jun 21, 2016, at 5:51 PM, Jordan Rose via swift-evolution
> wrote:
>
>
>> On Jun 21, 2016, at 15:26, Xiaodi Wu via swift-evolution
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 5:10 PM, Daniel Resnick via
> On Jun 21, 2016, at 17:26, Xiaodi Wu via swift-evolution
> wrote:
>
> The \( combination takes a little getting used to, but it's not absurdly
> terrible. I suppose we could consider \{} or even \[] instead of \() to
> alleviate the reach.
\{} is kinda nice
On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 7:10 PM, Kenny Wyland wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 5:07 PM, Xiaodi Wu wrote:
>
>> (Whoops, reply to list; also adding a reply.)
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 6:55 PM, Kenny Wyland wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Jun
on Tue Jun 21 2016, Brandon Knope wrote:
> Maybe this is flawed, but I think it is hard to argue that the \ is
> easy to type when there are far more usable alternatives.
While I agree with you, readability is *so* much more important than
typeability that I think
Sent from my iPad
> On Jun 21, 2016, at 8:07 PM, Xiaodi Wu via swift-evolution
> wrote:
>
> (Whoops, reply to list; also adding a reply.)
>
> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 6:55 PM, Kenny Wyland wrote:
>>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 4:40 PM, Xiaodi Wu
(Whoops, reply to list; also adding a reply.)
On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 6:55 PM, Kenny Wyland wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 4:40 PM, Xiaodi Wu via swift-evolution <
> swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 6:25 PM, Brandon Knope
The situation is very different on an iPad. I don't think this argument is a
good enough reason either. It will differ based on locale, accessibility
technology, device, personal key shortcuts, etc.
l8r
Sean
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jun 21, 2016, at 6:52 PM, Brandon Knope via
You're going to be holding shift for the parens anyways so it might be easier
to type instead of not pressing and then pressing shift
Brandon
Sent from my iPad
> On Jun 21, 2016, at 7:47 PM, Andrey Fidrya wrote:
>
> I think that introducing another escape character is not
I think that introducing another escape character is not a good idea.
\() is consistent with \r \n etc.
And I'm not sure if $ is easier to type. '\' is a single keypress and is located
near Backspace & Enter.
$ is SHIFT+4 and is harder to type without looking at the keyboard.
Andrey
> On 22
Unfortunately I know nothing about international keyboards.
But surely someone could heat map their international keyboards?
I don't want to take this to ridiculous levels, but I hope I am making somewhat
of a point here. Maybe not =/
Brandon
Sent from my iPad
On Jun 21, 2016, at 7:38 PM,
On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 6:25 PM, Brandon Knope wrote:
> How can it be unpersuasive? I can *show* you that keys that are easier to
> type/reach exist for a large majority of user’s.
>
As I pointed out, your results are flawed because there are two keys
frequently reached for in
>> You know what *is* unusable though? Try finding the $ key on an
>> international keyboard.
And that, for me, is motivation in a nutshell. Swift won't always be used on OS
X, where it's easy to set up Keyboard prefs to substitute (dollar) with $.
I did a search for "which symbol keys appear
How can it be unpersuasive? I can *show* you that keys that are easier to
type/reach exist for a large majority of user’s.
I am not saying it is a good idea or not to replace \, but to pretend that
there isn’t an inconvenience there is unfair when every other part of the
language is put under
On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 6:08 PM, Brandon Knope via swift-evolution <
swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:
> Actually… we can go pretty scientific on this sort of thing and heat map
> keyboard usage to get a better picture of how “usable” this is.
>
> I pasted a file that contains seven \’s in it and
I’m not saying its necessarily *easy* to type, but I think its good enough to
warrant the elegance of having only one escaping character instead of multiple.
> On 22 Jun 2016, at 01:08, Brandon Knope via swift-evolution
> wrote:
>
> Actually… we can go pretty
Actually… we can go pretty scientific on this sort of thing and heat map
keyboard usage to get a better picture of how “usable” this is.
I pasted a file that contains seven \’s in it and heat mapped it at
https://www.patrick-wied.at/projects/heatmap-keyboard/
Even *with* several \’s throughout
Entirely agree. \ makes total sense as the one-and-only escaping character. I
also have no trouble typing it.
> On 21 Jun 2016, at 23:55, Brent Royal-Gordon via swift-evolution
> wrote:
>
>> I find that typing \(var) is very disruptive to my typing flow. The more I
> On Jun 21, 2016, at 15:26, Xiaodi Wu via swift-evolution
> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 5:10 PM, Daniel Resnick via swift-evolution
> > wrote:
> I also disagree for the same reasons that Gwynne and
On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 5:10 PM, Daniel Resnick via swift-evolution <
swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:
> I also disagree for the same reasons that Gwynne and Brent mentioned: I
> find '\(...)' easy to read, fine to type, and consistent with other string
> escaping syntax.
>
Those are persuasive
I also disagree for the same reasons that Gwynne and Brent mentioned: I
find '\(...)' easy to read, fine to type, and consistent with other string
escaping syntax.
On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 3:55 PM, Brent Royal-Gordon via swift-evolution <
swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:
> > I find that typing
> I find that typing \(var) is very disruptive to my typing flow. The more I
> code in Swift, the more I like it, but every time I'm coding and then have to
> hiccup while typing \ then ( causes me to be annoyed. I know, it's minor, but
> it isn't a key combination that flows quickly.
>
> I
> On Jun 21, 2016, at 15:48, Jonathan Cotton via swift-evolution
> wrote:
>
> I'd support $() as is in use by other languages, including Kotlin, as
> mentioned it seems less disruptive and more inline with the tokenised
> parameters that are already supported in
If such bike-shed repainting is under serious consideration, I’d request that
the tint take into account the possibility of string formatter options being
desired in the future. Outside of that, I’m just as happy with the current
symbol as I would be with the proposals I’ve heard so far.
-DW
I agree big time. It is pretty awkward to type and I completely understand the
angst when having to type it!
$() seems like the better option, though maybe not as nice looking as \()
(maybe it is on second thought?) it is much easier to type!
Brandon
> On Jun 21, 2016, at 5:22 PM, Saagar
I really don't like \. I'd prefer just about any of the shift keys
(!@#$%^&).
That said, I would shut up and cope if xCode did the right thing when you
were typing a \ inside "'s and just filled in the () and placed the cursor
in the right spot. I guess that would upset folks that type a lot of
%, at least to me, suggests distant evaluation; i.e. parameter passing at
the end. $ seems more like an in-place evaluation, like how bash does it.
On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 2:14 PM Xiaodi Wu via swift-evolution <
swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:
> That said, I think it's nice that \, #, $, and @
That said, I think it's nice that \, #, $, and @ are all used in unique
scenarios. What about going a little classical with %?
On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 16:10 Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution <
swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote:
>
> on Tue Jun 21 2016, Kenny Wyland
on Tue Jun 21 2016, Kenny Wyland wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm new to the list and I just searched through the archives as best I
> could to see if someone else had already brought this up, but I didn't find
> anything. Forgive me if this horse has been beaten.
>
> I find
I'd support $() as is in use by other languages, including Kotlin, as mentioned
it seems less disruptive and more inline with the tokenised parameters that are
already supported in closures.
> On 21 Jun 2016, at 21:43, Kenny Wyland via swift-evolution
> wrote:
>
>
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