Re: [Tagging] Highway classification in Antarctica

2024-04-27 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
On Sat, Apr 27, 2024 at 9:01 PM Fernando Trebien wrote: > "a road of highest importance, forming the main road network there, > should be highway=trunk" [1] > "highway=trunk: The most important roads in a country's system that > aren't motorways." [2] > > The comments here suggest that for a

Re: [Tagging] Highway classification in Antarctica

2024-04-25 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
On Thu, Apr 25, 2024 at 10:13 AM Christoph Hormann wrote: > [...] you can try to record semantically meaningful information about the > geographic reality. > > [...] Even more clear in that regard is the use of secondary tags like > snowmobile=yes, ice_road=yes, surface=ice. I don't think

Re: [Tagging] Highway classification in Antarctica

2024-04-24 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
I'm sure the answer to this question... CRITICAL ... to many data consumers... Anyways: This: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/1159748452 seems fine, if you can convince me that it's actually a road. Clearly the most significant road in the area... It's essentially the only road *grin*

Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - RFC - Documenting feet as an an optional elevation unit

2024-01-27 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
Uh so I did the math, and unless I've got this wrong, the difference between survey feet and international feet for tagging, let's say, Mount Everest, is less than seven one-hundredths of an inch. So I'm really not even sure why we're discussing it beyond the fact that we're all nerds about this

Re: [Tagging] [RFC] Feature Proposal - Cell Phone Reception

2023-08-10 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
On Thu, Aug 10, 2023, 6:28 AM Marc_marc wrote: > with this argument, you'd have to remove all the shop= office=* craft=*, > Nonsense. Everyone knows what a craft=brewery is. It's not volatile at all. They either make beer or they don't. Cell reception is ephemeral. > let's also remove

Re: [Tagging] [RFC] Feature Proposal - Cell Phone Reception

2023-08-08 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
No, this does not fix it. The fundamental thing that you're trying to map here simply doesn't belong in OSM, the proposal will not pass, and I would advise you to stop wasting your time and everyone else's on it. OpenStreetMap is a database of verifiable facts, not scientific measurements, and

Re: [Tagging] [RFC] Feature Proposal - Cell Phone Reception

2023-08-06 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
This isn't really appropriate data for OSM, sorry. On Sun, Aug 6, 2023, 3:21 PM NickKatchur via Tagging < tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote: > Hello, > > > I have developed a proposal to indicate the availability of cell phone > service at nodes and areas, >

Re: [Tagging] [RFC] Feature Proposal - Intentionally omitted name tags

2023-07-30 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
On Sun, Jul 30, 2023 at 12:08 PM Marc_marc wrote: > did we need to have this thread again and again ? > [...] Regards, > Marc > What do you believe should go into the name tag of the bodies of water known in French as océan Atlantique or the body of water known as Itämeri in Finnish?

[Tagging] [RFC] Feature Proposal - Intentionally omitted name tags

2023-07-15 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
Hello, Comment is requested on a proposal to introduce two tags to indicate the reason why a name=* tag has been omitted from a feature: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposal:Omitted_name_tag Please provide feedback here, on the wiki talk page, or on the Community Forum thread that I

Re: [Tagging] [RFC] Feature Proposal - Wave Lounger

2023-07-02 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
I don't see the current usage to be a problem. On Sun, Jul 2, 2023, 2:19 PM Asa Hundert wrote: > I want this amenable to consumers. If I were to propose an attribute > to the other tag, I'd have to propose to deprecate the uses on areas > that allows for such atrocities as "amenity=lounger;

Re: [Tagging] shop=gun shop=guns shop=weapons shop=firearms

2023-06-22 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
un 22, 2023, 8:28 AM Greg Troxel wrote: > "Brian M. Sperlongano" writes: > > > On Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 8:08 AM Illia Marchenko < > illiamarchenk...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > >> But "freeway" is de facto equivalent of motorwa

Re: [Tagging] shop=gun shop=guns shop=weapons shop=firearms

2023-06-22 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
On Thu, Jun 22, 2023, 8:08 AM Illia Marchenko wrote: > But "freeway" is de facto equivalent of motorway, right? > Freeway is a colloquial term that's only used in some parts of the country and only signed as such in some states and often inconsistently. I assure you that the on the ground

Re: [Tagging] shop=gun shop=guns shop=weapons shop=firearms

2023-06-22 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
> yes, but motorway is an exception because it is usually defined by signs > rather than characteristics (e.g. if the signs are missing but it looks and > feels like, we use motorroad=yes in some countries) Iknow you said 'usually' but this sounds like a very European perspective to me. We have

Re: [Tagging] [RFC] Feature Proposal - landcover proposal V2

2023-02-10 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
This is a change to longstanding tagging practices and is therefore dead on arrival. On Fri, Feb 10, 2023, 11:33 AM Cartographer10 via Tagging < tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote: > Tjuro and I started a proposal to formalize the usage of `landcover=*`. > The proposal is now open for feedback >

Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] New MapRoulette Challenge - Add Surface to Highways

2023-02-03 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 9:45 AM Marc_marc wrote: > Le 03.02.23 à 15:32, Brian M. Sperlongano a écrit : > > Let's make sure we're talking about the same thing > > what's the issue with tag if TomTom doesn't reply ? > I suppose it's more for talk than tagging If it's prom

Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] New MapRoulette Challenge - Add Surface to Highways

2023-02-03 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 4:23 AM Walker Kosmidou-Bradley < walker.t.brad...@gmail.com> wrote: > I understand that having tagging like this does not benefit you, but does > it hurt you? If it doesn’t hurt you and it may help somebody else is there > a problem? > Hi, Let's make sure we're talking

Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] New MapRoulette Challenge - Add Surface to Highways

2023-02-02 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
? On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 12:49 PM David Salmon wrote: > Hi All, > > > > Thank you for the discussions and pointers. I’ve disabled the challenge > for now and will re-evaluate with the team. > > > > Much appreciated, > > David > > > > *From:* Brian M.

Re: [Tagging] tagging the diameter of a mini-roundabout

2023-01-28 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
I think the point was that the units are explicitly tagged in meters, whereas in other cases (like ele), the unit assumed to be meters and you can just put a number by itself. On Sat, Jan 28, 2023, 3:14 PM stevea wrote: > Using mm (millimeters) as a unit for this makes no sense. Meters are

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Announce proposals on the community forum

2023-01-07 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
On Sat, Jan 7, 2023 at 3:57 PM Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > I have no idea about the situation in France, but there definitely is > fragmentation in OpenStreetMap channels (slack, telegram, forum, ml, irc, > facebook etc.) - it is not necessarily a problem. It is not a problem, but, for the

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Announce proposals on the community forum

2023-01-07 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
On Sat, Jan 7, 2023 at 1:00 PM Marc_marc wrote: > that is what I call a fragmentation, that's what happend > with the fragmentaiton of the fr community I was curious about this comment and so I headed over to openstreetmap.community to check out the list of community spaces in France. I found

[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - High seas

2023-01-01 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
A proposal[1] to recommend the tagging of oceanic seas as nodes rather than areas is now open for comments. This proposal follows a community forum discussion[2] regarding the modeling of the Gulf of Mexico as a node rather than as a crude polygon. This change was made in [3]. This proposal would

Re: [Tagging] Route names being applied to tracks/paths

2022-12-30 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
One of the names might be the predominant name used locally. On Fri, Dec 30, 2022, 2:19 PM Yves via Tagging wrote: > Remove the name of the way, put a name on each relations. Except if it > makes sense to keep the name also on the way for whatever reason you see > fit. > > Le 30 décembre 2022

Re: [Tagging] Foot / sidewalk access tagging

2022-12-19 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 2:15 AM Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging < tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote: > foot=use_sidepath was invented to mark "yes, on carriageway you cannot > walk, but you can walk on separately mapped sidewalk" > This makes sense to me, but the wiki[1] is somewhat confusing about

Re: [Tagging] Foot / sidewalk access tagging

2022-12-18 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
Hello, On Sun, Dec 18, 2022 at 6:08 PM Jens Glad Balchen wrote: > > There are instances that you wouldn't want to include in your router. > E.g. https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/658000911, which is similar > except there is no sidewalk=separate. Walking on this "sidewalk" is > probably

Re: [Tagging] Foot / sidewalk access tagging

2022-12-18 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
estrian-in-roadway" ordinances) and > there is NO sidewalk. In this case there IS an "easement" (whether > populated by utilities or not) where pedestrians are allowed, because > pedestrians must be able to use the right-of-way of the road, too. Just > not IN the roadway,

Re: [Tagging] Foot / sidewalk access tagging

2022-12-18 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
ave > a sidewalk? > Only in a city environment or also in a non-city environment? > Or in Texas if you're on foot you're going nowhere? > Definitely not human! > > > Il giorno dom 18 dic 2022 alle ore 22:31 Brian M. Sperlongano < > zelonew...@gmail.com> ha scritto: > &

Re: [Tagging] Foot / sidewalk access tagging

2022-12-18 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
> (usually car) road-accompanying sidewalk. >> >> Also, your project reminds me of wandrer.earth, where craig also >> introduced a way for running to track ran ways, not only for cyclists. >> Though i only use it for cycling. >> >> -- >> Diese Nach

Re: [Tagging] Foot / sidewalk access tagging

2022-12-18 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
a way. > However i would tag foot=use_sidepath, which means the same as foot=no but > also indicates the existence of a separate way usable for routing. > And only if the highway is a streets centerline, not a cycleway or other. > > Cyton > Am 18.12.22, 21:32 schrieb "Brian

[Tagging] Foot / sidewalk access tagging

2022-12-18 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
Hello, I am the author of a data consumer which generates a list of streets that are accessible to walkers and joggers. The idea is that a user would have a map of the streets in their town and can challenge themselves to walk/jog down every street, and they can look at statistics on which

Re: [Tagging] Re-opening of historic=* key vote without community notification

2022-11-15 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 6:22 AM Włodzimierz Bartczak < wlodzimierz.bartc...@openstreetmap.pl> wrote: > That's right it's an oversight. I was a bit hasty. First of all, I wanted > to start a discussion. It would be worthwhile to sort out the use of this > key. Everyone is complaining about this

[Tagging] Re-opening of historic=* key vote without community notification

2022-11-14 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
It has come to my attention that the "historic" proposal has apparently been re-opened for a vote without even a courtesy message to the tagging mailing list. Thank you to user Mnalis to noticing this and alerting several community members that have previously commented on the proposal.

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

2022-11-14 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 2:49 AM Marc_marc wrote: > We can see it with the osm-fr experience: the immature forum has split > the community, far from federating > Thank you for clearly describing the root cause of your objection. In my opinion, it is better to let people decide for themselves

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

2022-11-13 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
You're using the wrong metric. The standard for a proposal, which purports to change tagging standards that affect *the entire community*, should be to advertise it as widely as possible. With the new forums picking up interest and activity, it is entirely appropriate to say to a proposer

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Start moving proposal announcements to the new forum

2022-11-13 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
I support the idea that proposals be posted to both the mailing list and the community forums. Over time we can assess whether one or the other is better. One thing I think is missing is that I would like to see proposals posted to a dedicated space in the forums that can be subscribed to, that

[Tagging] Easy way to find proposals [was: Healthcare]

2022-11-06 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
You should bookmark this site to keep track of proposals: https://osm-proposals.push-f.com/ Ideally this should probably be linked to more places. On Sun, Nov 6, 2022 at 7:31 AM ael via Tagging wrote: > A very general comment:- > > I very seldom consider voting on proposals, but I did want to

[Tagging] Proposal process [was: healthcare]

2022-11-05 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 6:45 PM Robin Burek wrote: > And if we now get to the point of just "throwing away" the consensus of 12 > years ago. > > do we still need the proposal process at all? Because the result from 12 > years ago is also completely ignored by you. > it was already decided to

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Healthcare 1.1

2022-11-05 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
On Sat, Nov 5, 2022 at 5:55 PM Robin Burek wrote: > What kind of reversal of guilt is that? If someone does not participate in > the RFC. And it has been discussed both here and in the new forum. Even > constructive support, which I have received and not a little. > I have yet to talk to anyone

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Healthcare 1.1

2022-11-05 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
It is the responsibility of the proposer to ensure that there is a consensus before moving to a vote, regardless of timelines. It seems to me that there has been a recent plague of proposals where proposal writers are tossing proposals into voting status without doing enough due diligence. If you

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - historic

2022-11-04 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
I'll offer a well-known example from my country: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welcome_to_Fabulous_Las_Vegas_sign It's on the US National Register of Historic Places which should qualify it as a historic sign. Although I suppose those in Europe would just consider the sign to be a little old.

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Deprecate man made=drinking fountain

2022-11-04 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
I think I understand the proposal from poking around on the links to the different alternatives, but could you clarify, for objects currently tagged man_made=drinking_fountain, what the range of alternative taggings would be? I almost wish there was a flow chart that would let the mapper of a

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - historic

2022-11-03 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
The main issue I have with this proposal is that there is a longstanding controversy regarding the historic key. Namely, the question of whether it is used for things that are historic or merely old. I don't see how a proposal centered around this key can move forward with that fundamental

[Tagging] Tagging standards [moved from osmf-talk]

2022-10-23 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
On Sun, Oct 23, 2022 at 10:18 AM Andy Allan wrote: > Can I reiterate this please - of all the things in OpenStreetMap that > OSMF gets involved in, tagging is perhaps the thing that OSMF gets > involved in least of all. So I think this discussion is happening in > quite the wrong mailing list. >

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Historic

2022-10-11 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
I appreciate the effort here, but I think it's too broad. I would rather have a more focused look at individual keys that considers what the tagging alternatives are to each, and to assess whether there is duplication and/or debates surrounding them that are worth investigating. There is really

Re: [Tagging] OSM Wiki

2022-09-30 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
On Fri, Sep 30, 2022 at 7:45 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > How about "water bubblers"? Are they also a tap? > Ah yes, the "bubbler". For those that don't live in Rhode Island, or one specific part of Wisconsin, "bubbler" is a word that we use for what's called a "water fountain" in other

[Tagging] Quarry lakes

2020-12-24 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
A commenter on the reservoir proposal[1] pointed out the existence of quarry lakes[2], which is a lake that is formed after a quarry has been dug after a mining operation. It was suggested that such bodies of water should be tagged separately from other lakes with a tag such as water=quarry.

Re: [Tagging] Definition of lake/pond as applied to stream/plunge pools

2020-12-24 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
On Thu, Dec 24, 2020 at 9:00 AM Paul Allen All of which has drifted somewhat off topic, but until we have a > reasonable understanding of how different legislations handle > things we don't have a good model of how we ought to go > about mapping them (or even if we should map them). > I'm not

Re: [Tagging] Definition of lake/pond as applied to stream/plunge pools

2020-12-23 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
ically measure natural=water size where the way contains a waterfall > node. > > On Thu, 24 Dec 2020, 4:14 pm Brian M. Sperlongano, > wrote: > >> I could see value in tagging them separately. I.e. "I'd like to swim in >> a small pool with a waterfall". >>

Re: [Tagging] Definition of lake/pond as applied to stream/plunge pools

2020-12-23 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
I could see value in tagging them separately. I.e. "I'd like to swim in a small pool with a waterfall". On Thu, Dec 24, 2020, 12:10 AM Andrew Harvey wrote: > > > On Thu, 24 Dec 2020 at 10:26, Paul Allen wrote: > >> >> Isn't that a plunge pool? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plunge_pool >> I

Re: [Tagging] Definition of lake/pond as applied to stream/plunge pools

2020-12-21 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
> I think you need to expand a little on how to "conflate" a pool with a > river. The > disadvantage of doing so is that the pool then cannot have a name assigned. > Sorry, my words were not clear enough here. By "conflate" I mean that the pool would simply be part of the river polygon. See

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - addr:interpolation on closed ways and nodes

2020-12-21 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
Would this work for addressing schemes that use a hyphenated prefix? In Hawaii, addresses outside of the city of Honolulu use a two-digit prefix in addresses to determine which sector of the island an address is located. So an address might be something like "99-123 Kamehameha Highway". Would

[Tagging] Definition of lake/pond as applied to stream/plunge pools

2020-12-21 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
Discussion on the current reservoir proposal[1] (which seeks to define the distinction between reservoirs, lakes, and ponds) has brought up the question of stream/plunge pools[2,3], and how they fit into the lake/pond definitions. I've come up with the following text: "Occasionally a river or

Re: [Tagging] Fuzzy areas again: should we have them or not?

2020-12-21 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
On Mon, Dec 21, 2020 at 8:01 AM Frederik Ramm wrote: > Our current data model is not suitable for mapping fuzzy areas. We can > only do "precise". Also, as you correctly pointed out, or basic tenet of > verifiability doesn't work well with fuzzy data. > The current data model works just fine

Re: [Tagging] sport=shooting_range vs sport=shooting + leisure=pitch

2020-12-20 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
I agree with this interpretation. sport=* should always be secondary to some physical feature that is a location in some way related to the sport (where it is played, where you can get lessons, a shop, etc). On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 6:32 PM Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > sent from a phone > >

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Emergency=Rescue Stations

2020-12-20 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
> Yes, but all proposals suggest a rendering scheme. > The proposal process wiki page says "Not a part of the proposals process as such, but hints for the renderer maintainer will help them out. maybe a description of an icon (refer Map Icons), or an example mock-up. Usually may be safely omitted

Re: [Tagging] sport=shooting_range vs sport=shooting + leisure=pitch

2020-12-20 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
Note that the shooting_range hazard is specifically about the zone in and around a shooting range that you should avoid if you don't want to accidentally encounter a stray bullet (the area of the hazard) rather than as a tag for a shooting range itself. On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 3:30 PM Jmapb

[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Reservoirs, lakes, and ponds

2020-12-20 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
A proposal[1] to clarify the tagging of reservoirs, lakes, and ponds is now open for comments. This proposal: 1. Deprecates landuse=reservoir 2. Provides definitions for: a. water=reservoir b. water=lake c. water=pond It is clear from various multiple discussions on this

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:traffic_calming=hillocky

2020-12-20 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
> "Hillock" is quite common in British English To describe a traffic control device? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] sport=shooting_range vs sport=shooting + leisure=pitch

2020-12-19 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
These guys in Texas will let you drive their tank around and shoot things, for a price: https://www.oxhuntingranch.com/activities/hunting-shooting/machine-gun-shooting/ On Sat, Dec 19, 2020 at 6:16 PM Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > sent from a phone > > > On 19. Dec 2020, at 23:59, Jeremy

Re: [Tagging] sport=shooting_range vs sport=shooting + leisure=pitch

2020-12-19 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
> > is firing ordnance a leisure activity somewhere? Or a sport? Hello, let me introduce to you the United States of America. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Proposed feature - RFC - Military Bases

2020-12-19 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
Historic or abandoned military features, or military ruins, are clearly not what this proposal is describing. On Sat, Dec 19, 2020 at 5:44 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > On Sun, 20 Dec 2020 at 02:00, St Niklaas wrote: > >> >> Your text or proposal seems to be focused on modern times. >> > >

Re: [Tagging] sport=shooting_range vs sport=shooting + leisure=pitch

2020-12-19 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
Perhaps simply leisure=range, as this would be generic to any type of facility where one might fire projectiles or ordnance. You could then extend that with something like range= to specify what is being fired, and/or the existing sport= key if it's considered a shooting sport. On Sat, Dec 19,

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Tag:traffic_calming=hillocky

2020-12-19 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
I've seen these in the US also, but I never knew what they were called. I understand that the purpose of them is simply to make noise when a car drives over them, as they don't slow you down in any appreciable way like a speed bump/hump. We already have a tag for "a traffic calming device that

Re: [Tagging] sport=shooting_range vs sport=shooting + leisure=pitch

2020-12-19 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
I understand pitch to mean "a playing field" (as "pitch" is not often used in US English -- we would say "soccer field" for example.). I don't know if a shooting range is a pitch or not, but it definitely isn't a playing field. On Sat, Dec 19, 2020 at 3:35 PM Paul Allen wrote: > On Sat, 19 Dec

Re: [Tagging] Tagging sewage treatment basins

2020-12-17 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
With respect to basins, my understanding is that some of these have water in them all of the time, some of them have water some of the time, and then there are some that are almost always dry, but become wet only rarely when they are needed (e.g. for stormwater handling) Mappers have used BOTH

Re: [Tagging] Rapids (whitewater) on rivers

2020-12-17 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
hazard=yes is neither banned nor discouraged. It was simply not included in the list of proposed approved tags due to objections raised during the RFC. The goal was to approve the hazard tagging that everyone agreed on. Since hazard=yes has some existing tagging (>600 uses), it would still be

Re: [Tagging] Tagging sewage treatment basins

2020-12-17 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
I knew them as sewage treatment ponds, but apparently there's a name for them: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waste_stabilization_pond I feel like this a separate class of object that deserves its own tag, either within or separate from natural=water, or perhaps even subclassed as

Re: [Tagging] Rapids (whitewater) on rivers --> Hazards

2020-12-16 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
alifornia%20highway%201%20curves%20for%20next%2074%20miles=firefox-b-d=2ahUKEwifs6ryz9PtAhUO16QKHZ2-AjEQMygAegQIARAu> > > > > > On Wed, 16 Dec 2020 at 23:13, Brian M. Sperlongano > wrote: > >> As the maintainer of the current hazard proposal - I don't really have >> stron

Re: [Tagging] Rapids (whitewater) on rivers --> Hazards

2020-12-16 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
As the maintainer of the current hazard proposal - I don't really have strong opinions about signed versus unsigned hazards, though I know others do. However, signed hazards seem to be something that we all agree should be tagged, and this proposal is attempting to approve the collection of

Re: [Tagging] Rapids (whitewater) on rivers

2020-12-16 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
+1 IMHO these are complementary. waterway=rapids can be tagged from overhead imagery, and the additional detail of the rapids can be added later by people with subject matter expertise. I see this as equivalent to sac_scale=* for hiking trails - it does not replace the underlying highway=path,

Re: [Tagging] The saga of landuse=reservoir vs water=reservoir

2020-12-16 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
The statistics reflect all areas, regardless of which editors were used to create them. I stand by them, as numbers do not lie. There was a 3:1 preference for water=reservoir during 2017 and 2018, two years prior to the change in iD preset. The data is open, and taginfo provides a very helpful

Re: [Tagging] The saga of landuse=reservoir vs water=reservoir

2020-12-16 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
Tomas, Since you are not willing to accept (1) an existing approved proposal, (2) new proposal to correct flaws in the first one, or (3) the overwhelming preference of the mapping community over the past four years[1], then I'm sorry but we must curtly dismiss your arguments as a one-man

Re: [Tagging] The saga of landuse=reservoir vs water=reservoir

2020-12-16 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
-12-16, tr, 01:32 Brian M. Sperlongano rašė: > > The iD editor preset appears to use water=reservoir while the JOSM > > preset appears to use landuse=reservoir. > > Not entirely correct. > * JOSM gives freedom to mappers and supports BOTH. > * iD forces to use water=re

Re: [Tagging] The saga of landuse=reservoir vs water=reservoir

2020-12-15 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
Thanks everyone for the discussion. I believe there are two germane points being raised by Tomas that warrant our consideration: 1. It is not clear from the original 2011 vote which created water=reservoir (and other values) as to whether the community intended to deprecate landuse=reservoir or

Re: [Tagging] How to put a name tag on an area with more than one type?

2020-12-15 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
Wouldn't it be more consistent to keep it in the same key, and call it place=lake_group? Or even place=lakes? Would this be used for something like the Great Lakes in USA/Canada or is that too large of a feature? On Tue, Dec 15, 2020, 12:05 PM stevea wrote: > +1. Joseph's suggestion is a

[Tagging] Changes to clarify the Hazards proposal during the vote

2020-12-14 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
Hello, I recently received late feedback on the hazards proposal. Based on the feedback, I felt it was necessary to make small changes to this proposal. I believe these changes are sufficiently minor that they do not invalidate the voting which has occurred so far. Since this proposal has begun

Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - RFC 2 - Pumping proposal

2020-12-14 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 5:11 PM François Lacombe wrote: > Hi Brian, > > Thank you for your comments > > Le lun. 14 déc. 2020 à 00:40, Brian M. Sperlongano > a écrit : > >> 1. The proposal states "It is proposed to discourage the use of >> undocumente

Re: [Tagging] How to put a name tag on an area with more than one type?

2020-12-14 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
I agree with Mateusz that the wiki IS the project's standard document for the meaning of tagging (from the perspective of data consumers) and how to tag (from the perspective of mappers). Note that both perspectives are important. But to address the specific point, there is no standard document

Re: [Tagging] How to put a name tag on an area with more than one type?

2020-12-14 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
It sounds like what we are asking for is the ability to tag a rough polygon in the approximate area where a label should be placed for a known but not strictly bounded toponymic feature (mountain range, water body, etc). That would give a hint to renderers as to the location and most importantly,

Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - RFC 2 - Pumping proposal

2020-12-13 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
François, thank you for your hard work on this proposal! I will most likely support this version. I have a few questions: 1. The proposal states "It is proposed to discourage the use of undocumented pump:type=* to state pump mechanisms in favour of new pump_mechanism=*." It is not clear what

Re: [Tagging] Is landuse=conservation actually deprecated?

2020-12-13 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
I will note that the Massachusetts, USA mapping community does believe that there is a distinction between the two tags, as noted here: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Massachusetts/Conservation However, this usage and definition seems to be specific to that particular community and is not a

Re: [Tagging] The saga of landuse=reservoir vs water=reservoir

2020-12-13 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
for the same reason - working together to create the best possible map for the world. [1] https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/17874 [2] https://github.com/openstreetmap/iD/issues/6589 On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 10:39 AM Tomas Straupis wrote: > 2020-12-13, sk, 16:13 Brian M. Sperlongano rašė: >

[Tagging] The saga of landuse=reservoir vs water=reservoir

2020-12-13 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
This story is offered because I find it interesting, and as a possible catalyst for updates to our tagging documentation. I offer apologies to those that are well aware of this controversy. There are two competing ways to tag reservoirs: landuse=reservoir, or natural=water + water=reservoir.

Re: [Tagging] Proposed feature - RFC - Military Bases

2020-12-12 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
> Break - I've just found that there actually are a handful of > club=army_cadets (8), =air_cadets (5) & =sea_cadets (2) already in use, > although all are undocumented, so they will be fine. Are we all in > agreement though, that there should be no reference to "military" against > Cadet groups

[Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - Hazards

2020-12-12 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
Hello, Voting is now open for a two-week period on the proposal "Hazards". I wish to express my sincere appreciation to the many of you that provided valuable input during the development of this proposal. Voting link: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/hazard#Voting

Re: [Tagging] How to put a name tag on an area with more than one type?

2020-12-11 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
Hello Anders, I would recommend creating a multipolygon relation (type=multipolygon) with each of the wetland pieces, and set the name= and appropriate natural= and wetland= tags on the relation. On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 11:11 AM Anders Torger wrote: > Hello, > > I was on this list a while back

Re: [Tagging] Proposed feature - RFC - Military Bases

2020-12-10 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
> > Ground/land, air/aviation & maritime/naval all seem pretty well > interchangeable, space is ready for the future & we should also include > amphibious & probably Staff / Command / Headquarters for somewhere like > this place: https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/89605! Currently >

Re: [Tagging] RFC - Hazards - 2 Week Update & RFC Summary

2020-12-10 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
In general I have avoided proposing values for these "warning of something ahead" signs that are at a non-trivial distance from the hazard, as I think that is a controversial usage, deserving of a separate discussion and/or proposal. Since there is already a tag for cattle grids and there is no

Re: [Tagging] Proposed feature - RFC - Military Bases

2020-12-10 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
> > > Services often cross functions; for example, the US Army operates air >> fields[2]. Tagging this military_service=army would be accurate, but would >> not convey that this is an air force base, but not an Air Force base. >> >> To get around all of this, we should tag military bases with

Re: [Tagging] Proposed feature - RFC - Military Bases

2020-12-10 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
> The Wikipedia pages on the Royal Navy, Royal Air Force and British Army >> use "military service" >> > sometimes too, and mention the overall "British Armed Services", "Her >> Majesty's Naval Service", etc. >> > > The same goes for the dialect spoken by that page's author. > > However, whilst

Re: [Tagging] Proposed feature - RFC - Military Bases

2020-12-10 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
"Service" is the right term for what is being described (e.g. army, navy, air force, etc), and is consistent with UK terminology[1]. However, it also assumes that every country's military forces are neatly grouped into these categories. The Chinese military is particularly complex - the Chinese

Re: [Tagging] RFC - Hazards - 2 Week Update & RFC Summary

2020-12-09 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
> > We have examples in the UK, even on major roads like the A346 between > Marlborough and Swindon. I don't think they are tagged. > with sophisticated routers issuing an alarm on approach might be > something in the future. These dips are clearly signed. > You've just convinced me that this

Re: [Tagging] RFC - Hazards - 2 Week Update & RFC Summary

2020-12-09 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
> Here are the ones that I think are worth considering: > >- Opening or swing bridge ahead > > This is already covered by the approved tag bridge:movable and its various sub-keys that describe different types of movable bridges. There were no existing usages I could find under the hazard key,

Re: [Tagging] RFC - Hazards - 2 Week Update & RFC Summary

2020-12-09 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
> I'd suggest fallen_rock and low_flying_aircraft as tag values based upon > the common case but have the proposal mention their secondary application. > I actually have low_flying_aircraft in the proposal as a value, though I just discovered that there is a more common value in use,

Re: [Tagging] RFC - Hazards - 2 Week Update & RFC Summary

2020-12-09 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
81425).jpg [2] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:NYS_NYW4-14.svg On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 8:37 AM Paul Allen wrote: > On Wed, 9 Dec 2020 at 13:13, Brian M. Sperlongano > wrote: > > Add hazard=falling_rocks, landslide; deprecate rock_slide, rockfall >> > > Kev

[Tagging] RFC - Hazards - 2 Week Update & RFC Summary

2020-12-09 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
Thanks to all who have spilled much ink and provided extensive comment on this proposal[1] -- the feedback is deeply appreciated as it increases confidence that the proposal reflects community consensus. The hazard tag has attracted an additional 2,000 usages just over the course of this RFC, and

Re: [Tagging] Proposed feature - RFC - Military Bases

2020-12-07 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
I fixed that for you, it should just be status=proposed, and the template does the rest of the magic! On Mon, Dec 7, 2020 at 7:26 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > > > > On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 at 10:19, Graeme Fitzpatrick > wrote: > >> >> I have just posted a new proposal re Military Bases: >>

Re: [Tagging] RFC - Hazards - Pedestrian hazard

2020-12-06 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
at=53.50421582735714=14.477556379223921=17=photo=aaBuvm_A9utc1PYDRyGyXw=0.5085941428184124=0.5962547075134255=0 On Sun, Dec 6, 2020 at 6:45 PM Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > sent from a phone > > > On 7. Dec 2020, at 00:17, Brian M. Sperlongano > wrote: > > > > The

Re: [Tagging] RFC - Hazards - Pedestrian hazard

2020-12-06 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
The largest existing use of hazard=cyclists is in Germany. There is no Google StreetView in Germany, but from the small number examples [1] I looked at, it seems like this tag is being used for "cyclists in the road" hazards and not "cyclist crossings". There were only 10 usages of the tag (out

[Tagging] RFC - Hazards - Pedestrian hazard

2020-12-06 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
The hazard proposal [1] currently proposes hazard=cyclists as a way to tag a signed area in which motorists should watch for or share the road with cyclists. Note that this is explicitly different from a cyclist crossing, which is currently covered by highway=crossing. It was suggested by a

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Military=Coast-Guard & Rescue=Marine_Rescue

2020-12-06 Thread Brian M. Sperlongano
Yes, and while we're at it, let's throw in multinational bases as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_Air_Base_Geilenkirchen On Sun, Dec 6, 2020 at 11:17 AM Paul Allen wrote: > On Sun, 6 Dec 2020 at 16:01, Brian M. Sperlongano > wrote: > >> This is probably a US-centric v

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