Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

> On Oct 12, 2019, at 1:28 AM, Phyks wrote: > > Hi, > > I've found similar issues in France recently. Cycling routes is too > broad and diverse and covers various realities. From a rendering > perspective (disclaimer: I'm one of the maintainer of the new CyclOSM > rendering style,

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

On 12/10/19 03:28, Phyks wrote: Hi, I've found similar issues in France recently. Cycling routes is too broad and diverse and covers various realities. From a rendering perspective (disclaimer: I'm one of the maintainer of the new CyclOSM rendering style, https://cyclosm.org), it is very often

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On Fri, 11 Oct 2019, 22:00 Peter Elderson, wrote: > But where pedestrian crossing is not allowed at all, as in the case I > described, two ways tagging does not give this routing problem. > No, but it's again not the only solution: the information that crossing the road isn't permitted can also

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

But where pedestrian crossing is not allowed at all, as in the case I described, two ways tagging does not give this routing problem. These roads are not for pedestrians, there is no sidewalk, and if there is a separate footway or cycleway it is physically separated and cyclists/pedestrians

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On Fri, 11 Oct 2019, 11:21 Snusmumriken, wrote: > > That tag is about lane changing, I don't see how it could be applied to > my example > If i understand the wiki page correctly, lanes=2 lanes:forward=1 lanes:backward=1 change:lanes:forward=not_left change:lanes:backward=not_left would mean

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

Hi, I've found similar issues in France recently. Cycling routes is too broad and diverse and covers various realities. From a rendering perspective (disclaimer: I'm one of the maintainer of the new CyclOSM rendering style, https://cyclosm.org), it is very often a nightmare to try to figure out

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

On 11/10/2019 12:51, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: 11 Oct 2019, 12:37 by rich...@systemed.net (I have a fair few lines of code in cycle.travel's rendering and routing codes to blacklist certain routes in OSM which are made up or otherwise unsuitable.) Can you list made-up lines

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

Then you wouldn’t tag separate carriageways on that particular way. In my country, lots of roads have carriageways separated by two lines with a green paint band of 1 m in between. I understand this is a type of european lining. Sometimes there is grass in between for a stretch, or vertical

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 5:21 AM Snusmumriken wrote: > My assumption is that pedestrian routing engine would stick to > sidewalks and crossings and not to tell the pedestrian to cross a > street where there is no crossing. The individual pedestrian can of > course make up his own mind what

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

11 Oct 2019, 14:59 by pelder...@gmail.com: > > >> Op 11 okt. 2019 om 11:22 heeft Philip Barnes het >> volgende geschreven: >> >> Not just the driver. Routing software can be used to determine which vehicle >> can give the quickest response. >> >> Phil (trigpoint) >> > > I would never trust

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

> Op 11 okt. 2019 om 11:22 heeft Philip Barnes het > volgende geschreven: > > Not just the driver. Routing software can be used to determine which vehicle > can give the quickest response. > > Phil (trigpoint) I would never trust OSM data for emergency routing or any purpose requiring

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On Fri, 2019-10-11 at 13:47 +0200, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > > Redefining stuff without very, very good > reason seems to be a bad idea. I don't see it as any kind of redefinition. I've been mapping like that for many years. And as Florian Lohoff pointed out, so has many others also.

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 5:38 AM Snusmumriken wrote: > On Fri, 2019-10-11 at 11:21 +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > > > > Am Fr., 11. Okt. 2019 um 11:10 Uhr schrieb Snusmumriken < > > snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com>: > > > It is up to the driver. I think he can ignore most of the traffic >

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

> On Oct 11, 2019, at 8:52 PM, Mateusz Konieczny > wrote: > > Can anyone make a route relation for any Way regardless if it is actually a > designated oute by a city, signed, or publically documented? > Such tagging for rendering happens > but is incorrect and should be deleted. This is what

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

11 Oct 2019, 12:18 by tagging@openstreetmap.org: > > Is there something Im not understanding? Can anyone make a route relation for > any Way regardless if it is actually a designated oute by a city, signed, or > publically documented? > Such tagging for rendering happens but is incorrect and

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

11 Oct 2019, 12:37 by rich...@systemed.net > (I have a fair few lines of code in cycle.travel's rendering and routing > codes to blacklist certain routes in OSM which are made up or otherwise > unsuitable.) > Can you list made-up lines that pollute

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

11 Oct 2019, 12:38 by snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com: > On Fri, 2019-10-11 at 11:21 +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > >> >> >> Am Fr., 11. Okt. 2019 um 11:10 Uhr schrieb Snusmumriken < >> snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com>: >> > It is up to the driver. I think he can ignore most of the traffic

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

11 Oct 2019, 13:23 by f...@zz.de: > Hi > > On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 10:59:53PM +0200, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > >> > I had a quick 10 Minute Look at Mapillary and i have found 10s of >> > examples of separate way although no physical barrier.  >> > >> It can be easily done for any kind of

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

11 Oct 2019, 13:04 by snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com: > On Fri, 2019-10-11 at 12:48 +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > >> Am Fr., 11. Okt. 2019 um 12:39 Uhr schrieb Snusmumriken < >> snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com>: >> > Just to be clear, I'm not advocating that legal separation MUST >> >

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

Hi On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 10:59:53PM +0200, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > > I had a quick 10 Minute Look at Mapillary and i have found 10s of > > examples of separate way although no physical barrier.  > > > It can be easily done for any kind of mistake. > > Have you tried comparing it to split

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

Are you able to properly verify these are all "Random road your cycling club likes to ride on the weekend" & not designated/signed routes? ATM it appears you're vetting them purely on the class of highway used. Designated cycle routes can go along "just regular roads, with no designation for

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On Fri, 2019-10-11 at 12:48 +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > Am Fr., 11. Okt. 2019 um 12:39 Uhr schrieb Snusmumriken < > snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com>: > > Just to be clear, I'm not advocating that legal separation MUST > > lead to > > way separation. Just that a rule that wouldn't allow it

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > wouldn't it be better to delete them from OSM if they are made up? It would, but I have limited hours in the day to police every single cycle route relation in OSM. I lose track of the amount of time I spent on user messages and changeset comments trying to get the

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

Am Fr., 11. Okt. 2019 um 12:38 Uhr schrieb Richard Fairhurst < rich...@systemed.net>: > (I have a fair few lines of code in cycle.travel's rendering and routing > codes to blacklist certain routes in OSM which are made up or otherwise > unsuitable.) wouldn't it be better to delete them from

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

Am Fr., 11. Okt. 2019 um 12:39 Uhr schrieb Snusmumriken < snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com>: > Just to be clear, I'm not advocating that legal separation MUST lead to > way separation. Just that a rule that wouldn't allow it would be a very > bad rule. What makes most sense based upon the ground

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On Fri, 2019-10-11 at 11:21 +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > Am Fr., 11. Okt. 2019 um 11:10 Uhr schrieb Snusmumriken < > snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com>: > > It is up to the driver. I think he can ignore most of the traffic > > laws > > in the cause of getting as fast and as safe to where

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

John Willis wrote: > I want to delete these fake “mountain workout” relations that > should be mapped in strava or a similar workout app. Fully agree. Go for it. OSM is for verifiable, signposted cycle routes and verifiable, real cycling infrastructure. If a route is on the way to being

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On Fri, 2019-10-11 at 11:32 +0200, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > > > 11 Oct 2019, 11:19 by snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com: > > My assumption is that pedestrian routing engine would stick to > > sidewalks and crossings and not to tell the pedestrian to cross a > > street where there is no crossing.

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

Am I misunderstanding something fundamental? Mapping cycle route relations Sounds a lot like mapping bus routes: mapping the designated routes of existing public/private routes seems to be useful - mapping where you like to drive your RV around With a bus route relation and inter-mixing that

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

11 Oct 2019, 11:22 by colin.sm...@xs4all.nl: > > On 2019-10-11 11:09, Snusmumriken wrote: > > >> It is up to the driver. I think he can ignore most of the traffic laws >> in the cause of getting as fast and as safe to where he needs to go. So >> he would use his own judgment and not so much

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

11 Oct 2019, 11:09 by snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com: > On Fri, 2019-10-11 at 10:57 +0200, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > >> >> >> >> 11 Oct 2019, 10:50 by snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com: >> > On Fri, 2019-10-11 at 10:31 +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: >> > > Am Fr., 11. Okt. 2019 um 10:26 Uhr

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

11 Oct 2019, 11:19 by snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com: > My assumption is that pedestrian routing engine would stick to > sidewalks and crossings and not to tell the pedestrian to cross a > street where there is no crossing. The individual pedestrian can of > course make up his own mind what

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On 2019-10-11 11:09, Snusmumriken wrote: > It is up to the driver. I think he can ignore most of the traffic laws > in the cause of getting as fast and as safe to where he needs to go. So > he would use his own judgment and not so much what a routing engine > tells him what he can do. That may

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

Not just the driver. Routing software can be used to determine which vehicle can give the quickest response. Phil (trigpoint) On Friday, 11 October 2019, Snusmumriken wrote: > On Fri, 2019-10-11 at 10:57 +0200, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > > > > > > > > 11 Oct 2019, 10:50 by

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

Am Fr., 11. Okt. 2019 um 11:10 Uhr schrieb Snusmumriken < snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com>: > It is up to the driver. I think he can ignore most of the traffic laws > in the cause of getting as fast and as safe to where he needs to go. So > he would use his own judgment and not so much what a

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On Thu, 2019-10-10 at 19:53 +0200, Markus wrote: > On Thu, 10 Oct 2019 at 16:10, Snusmumriken > wrote: > > For example if you try to create a routing advice for a car > > journey. > > Let's say that the journey starts at Main street number 10 and that > > Main street is a two way street where the

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On Fri, 2019-10-11 at 10:57 +0200, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > > > > 11 Oct 2019, 10:50 by snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com: > > On Fri, 2019-10-11 at 10:31 +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > Am Fr., 11. Okt. 2019 um 10:26 Uhr schrieb Snusmumriken < > > > snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com>: > >

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

11 Oct 2019, 10:50 by snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com: > On Fri, 2019-10-11 at 10:31 +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > >> Am Fr., 11. Okt. 2019 um 10:26 Uhr schrieb Snusmumriken < >> snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com>: >> > A level strip of grass can be crossed by any car. With a big SUV >> >

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

On 11/10/19 18:04, John Willis via Tagging wrote: Questions about using cycle relations properly: I am mapping and repairing cycle roads in the Kanto/Tokyo area. There are a lot of designated cycling roads that follow a long rivers and other water features out into the countryside, making up

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

11 Oct 2019, 10:31 by dieterdre...@gmail.com: > Am Fr., 11. Okt. 2019 um 10:26 Uhr schrieb Snusmumriken <> > snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com > >: > >> >> A level strip of grass can be crossed by any car. With a big SUV you >> can cross curbs and so on.

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On Fri, 2019-10-11 at 10:31 +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > Am Fr., 11. Okt. 2019 um 10:26 Uhr schrieb Snusmumriken < > snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com>: > > A level strip of grass can be crossed by any car. With a big SUV > > you > > can cross curbs and so on. It's just a questions about how

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On Friday, 11 October 2019, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > Am Fr., 11. Okt. 2019 um 10:26 Uhr schrieb Snusmumriken < > snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com>: > > > > > A level strip of grass can be crossed by any car. With a big SUV you > > can cross curbs and so on. It's just a questions about how big

Re: [Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

Have you discussed this with the individual mappers via changeset messages or on a Japanese forum/mailing list? Joseph On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 4:12 PM John Willis via Tagging < tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote: > Questions about using cycle relations properly: > > I am mapping and repairing

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

Am Fr., 11. Okt. 2019 um 10:26 Uhr schrieb Snusmumriken < snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com>: > > A level strip of grass can be crossed by any car. With a big SUV you > can cross curbs and so on. It's just a questions about how big your car > is and the nature of the physical separation. But I don't

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On Thu, 2019-10-10 at 17:57 +0200, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > Am Do., 10. Okt. 2019 um 16:10 Uhr schrieb Snusmumriken < > snusmumriken.map...@runbox.com>: > > For example if you try to create a routing advice for a car > > journey. > > Let's say that the journey starts at Main street

Re: [Tagging] railway crossings with cycleways

I think it depends on the country - most cycling roads in Japan “end” and dump you into a sidewalk to cross rail crossings - otherwise they either avoid the grade crossing or end and put you into regular road traffic to use the road’s grade crossing. they are basically 1-2km long sections of

Re: [Tagging] Divided highways, and not so divided highways, one way or two

On Thu, 10 Oct 2019 at 15:50, Vɑdɪm wrote: > Florian Lohoff-2 wrote > > On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 08:38:28AM +0200, Frederik Ramm wrote: > > Mapping large, multi-lane roads with a "do not cross line" in the > > middle as single line requires 4-5 times the number of turn > > restrictions. These are

[Tagging] Cycling relation misuse

Questions about using cycle relations properly: I am mapping and repairing cycle roads in the Kanto/Tokyo area. There are a lot of designated cycling roads that follow a long rivers and other water features out into the countryside, making up a regional system, and a lot of smaller local