Re: [GTALUG] how many addresses possible

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Sun, Apr 30, 2023 at 6:32 PM Scott Allen  wrote:
>
> On Sun, 30 Apr 2023 at 18:53, o1bigtenor via talk  wrote:
> > PasberryPi Pico w lan 8720 module (I lprefer wired communications - - 
> > security)
>
> I found this article:
> https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/how-to-add-ethernet-to-raspberry-pi-pico/
>
> If you follow it, your Pico will obtain an IP address from the router
> (or other DCHP server) using DHCP. Therefore, for example, if you set
> your router's DHCP server to assign addresses for 172.16.0.0 with a
> mask of 255.255.0.0 (or 172.16.0.0/16), it would be able to hand out
> up to 65534 IPv4 addresses (not including the router itself) in the
> range of 172.16.0.1 to 172.16.255.254
>
> If you need the Pico to have a fixed IP address, most DHCP servers can
> be set to assign specific IP addresses based on the device's MAC
> address.
>
> I haven't looked further but it's also very likely that you can
> configure the ethernet port of the Pico itself to have a static IP
> address and a mask of any length.
>
>
Also the article that I had read.

What you have written is the direction that I've been thinking. Its
easy- - its straightforward. I understand its not sexy - - - like using
the 192.168.1.1/16 but it will get the job done.
My only concern is what I do for when I switch to ipv6 (its in the
cards likely inside of 18 to 24 months) - - - - the information that
I've found on ipv6 so far is all for small scale networks - - - under 30
or so devices - - - - maybe I'll have to start looking for information
on ipv6 and 500 to 2000 devices.

Oh well - - - - thanks to one and all for the information.

Hopefully was at least somewhat interesting - - - - grin.

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] how many addresses possible

[James Knott via talk]

On 2023-04-30 18:53, o1bigtenor via talk wrote:

You likely quite disbelieve me - - - you are welcome to check for yourself.
I would be quite happy to be proven wrong!


Unless you're using DHCP, that device wouldn't be usable.  What is it?

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Re: [GTALUG] how many addresses possible

[Scott Allen via talk]

On Sun, 30 Apr 2023 at 18:53, o1bigtenor via talk  wrote:
> beagleBoneBlack

It appears that it runs Debian Linux, so you would set an IPv4 address
with any length of mask in the usual way for Debian.

--
Scott
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Re: [GTALUG] how many addresses possible

[Scott Allen via talk]

On Sun, 30 Apr 2023 at 18:53, o1bigtenor via talk  wrote:
> PasberryPi Pico w lan 8720 module (I lprefer wired communications - - 
> security)

I found this article:
https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/how-to-add-ethernet-to-raspberry-pi-pico/

If you follow it, your Pico will obtain an IP address from the router
(or other DCHP server) using DHCP. Therefore, for example, if you set
your router's DHCP server to assign addresses for 172.16.0.0 with a
mask of 255.255.0.0 (or 172.16.0.0/16), it would be able to hand out
up to 65534 IPv4 addresses (not including the router itself) in the
range of 172.16.0.1 to 172.16.255.254

If you need the Pico to have a fixed IP address, most DHCP servers can
be set to assign specific IP addresses based on the device's MAC
address.

I haven't looked further but it's also very likely that you can
configure the ethernet port of the Pico itself to have a static IP
address and a mask of any length.

-- 
Scott
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Re: [GTALUG] how many addresses possible

[Lennart Sorensen via talk]

On Sun, Apr 30, 2023 at 05:53:04PM -0500, o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 30, 2023 at 5:21 PM James Knott via talk  wrote:
> >
> > On 2023-04-30 17:55, o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
> > > I just spent over 1/2 hour looking at a number of SoCs (3) and 
> > > microcontrollers
> > > (also 3) and I can't find one where I can give it this 'classless'
> > > address you're
> > > talking about.
> >
> > Is there nowhere to set the subnet mask?  Either with / notation or
> > a.b.c.d.  If you can set the address, you should be able to do that, one
> > way or the other.
> >
> > For example, a typical network would be a /24.  It could be expressed as
> > 10.0.0.0 /24 or 10.0.0.0 255.255.255.0, depending on the equipment.
> >
> 
> Nope - - - - all I'm allowed is a quad - - - - or ipv6.
> 
> You likely quite disbelieve me - - - you are welcome to check for yourself.
> I would be quite happy to be proven wrong!
> 
> (RaspberryPi 4B
> PasberryPi Pico w lan 8720 module (I lprefer wired communications - - 
> security)
> beagleBoneBlack
> ESP32 microcontroller
> can't find the other 2  - - - - sorry)

For example ESP32 has a netmask setting:

https://techtutorialsx.com/2020/04/21/esp32-arduino-set-static-ip-address/

It mentions 
IPAddress staticIP(192, 168, 1, 150);
IPAddress gateway(192, 168, 1, 254);
IPAddress subnet(255, 255, 255, 0);
IPAddress dns(192, 168, 1, 254);

So perfectly simply to change the subnet to (255, 255, 254, 0).  DHCP
works too of course based on whatever the dhcp server is configured to
hand out.

For the raspberry pi 4B, they are usually running Raspeberry Pi OS which
is Debian based, and for static ip it simply has /etc/network/interfaces:

auto eno1
iface eno1 inet static
address 192.168.0.2/23
gateway 192.168.0.1

or if using old syntax:

auto eno1
iface eno1 inet static
address 192.168.0.2
netmask 255.255.254.0
gateway 192.168.0.1

Again you simply set the netmask to 255.255.254.0 or whatever else
you need.

beaglebone black often also runs a Debian based OS so same thing applies
there.

Given classless IPv4 was introduced in 1993, there is no way any micro
controller doesn't have a netmask setting.  They all do.  It has been
around for 30 years after all.

Of course CIDR syntax is much nicer than netmask which is horrible as
an interface.

/24 = 255.255.255.0
/23 = 255.255.254.0
/22 = 255.255.252.0
/21 = 255.255.248.0
/20 = 255.255.240.0
etc.  Pretty ugly to read and a bit annoying to calculate.

-- 
Len Sorensen
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Re: [GTALUG] how many addresses possible

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Sun, Apr 30, 2023 at 5:21 PM James Knott via talk  wrote:
>
> On 2023-04-30 17:55, o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
> > I just spent over 1/2 hour looking at a number of SoCs (3) and 
> > microcontrollers
> > (also 3) and I can't find one where I can give it this 'classless'
> > address you're
> > talking about.
>
> Is there nowhere to set the subnet mask?  Either with / notation or
> a.b.c.d.  If you can set the address, you should be able to do that, one
> way or the other.
>
> For example, a typical network would be a /24.  It could be expressed as
> 10.0.0.0 /24 or 10.0.0.0 255.255.255.0, depending on the equipment.
>

Nope - - - - all I'm allowed is a quad - - - - or ipv6.

You likely quite disbelieve me - - - you are welcome to check for yourself.
I would be quite happy to be proven wrong!

(RaspberryPi 4B
PasberryPi Pico w lan 8720 module (I lprefer wired communications - - security)
beagleBoneBlack
ESP32 microcontroller
can't find the other 2  - - - - sorry)

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Re: [GTALUG] how many addresses possible

[James Knott via talk]

On 2023-04-30 17:55, o1bigtenor via talk wrote:

I just spent over 1/2 hour looking at a number of SoCs (3) and microcontrollers
(also 3) and I can't find one where I can give it this 'classless'
address you're
talking about.


Is there nowhere to set the subnet mask?  Either with / notation or 
a.b.c.d.  If you can set the address, you should be able to do that, one 
way or the other.


For example, a typical network would be a /24.  It could be expressed as 
10.0.0.0 /24 or 10.0.0.0 255.255.255.0, depending on the equipment.

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Re: [GTALUG] how many addresses possible

[Scott Allen via talk]

On Sun, 30 Apr 2023 at 17:56, o1bigtenor via talk  wrote:
> I just spent over 1/2 hour looking at a number of SoCs (3) and 
> microcontrollers
> (also 3) and I can't find one where I can give it this 'classless'
> address you're
> talking about.

Specifics?

-- 
Scott
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Re: [GTALUG] how many addresses possible

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Sun, Apr 30, 2023 at 9:52 AM James Knott via talk  wrote:
>
> On 2023-04-30 10:40, o1bigtenor wrote:
> > You seem to have this mastered - - - - then:
>
> Yep.  I also had some courses when I was at IBM, in the late 90s, and
> also went for my CCNA a few years ago.
> >
> > How do I write more than 254 addresses in ipv4 using only the quad?
> >
> > (You get no / anything - - - - just the 4 quads!
> > The idea is that these are all permanently set - - - not just flitting
> > temporary
> > demands a la Mikkie D's example.)
>
> You have fallen into the trap that I've been describing.  That sort of
> thinking has been obsolete for 30 years.  Have you seen any equipment
> that does not allow you to specify the subnet size on IPv4, at least
> other than consumer level gear?  All the "/" does is tell you how long
> the network and host portions of the address are.
>
>

I think the issue here is that we are thinking of the use from 2
different ends.

You are thinking solely from the router - - - and then your
impassioned responses
are likely correct.

I just spent over 1/2 hour looking at a number of SoCs (3) and microcontrollers
(also 3) and I can't find one where I can give it this 'classless'
address you're
talking about.

I am limited to using the quad - - - unless I am using ipv6.

Perhaps - - - - how can I run ipv6 inside (on my lan) and communicate
out using ONLY
ipv4?

(Popcorn ready!)

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] how many addresses possible

[Lennart Sorensen via talk]

On Sun, Apr 30, 2023 at 03:44:03PM -0400, James Knott via talk wrote:
> If you're on Rogers, you get 2 IPv4 addresses.

Well I am not currently, but in a few months I will be.  Currently using
Teksavvy.

-- 
Len Sorensen
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Re: [GTALUG] The good old days of oreilly.com

[Lennart Sorensen via talk]

On Sun, Apr 30, 2023 at 12:04:56PM -0400, sciguy via talk wrote:
> I am having very little luck poking around. And to correct what I said
> earlier, searching specific titles leads me to a "403" error (Forbidden),
> not a 404 as I had said. I searched on Programming Perl, which I have the
> second and fourth editions, and got a "403" when I clicked on the title. The
> message below reads: "Your free O’Reilly trial has ended, making this
> content unavailable to view. For unlimited access to all O’Reilly has to
> offer, purchase a membership here." I also notice that on the titles I see,
> there are no "purchase" links, just "read" links. It sounds like for the $50
> or so monthly fee, you can read anything you like. Still not sold on the
> idea, but clearly they have changed their marketing model.

It used to be you could access most of their books if you had the ACM
digital library, but that stopped last year sometime, around the same
time they apparently stopped actually selling books as far as I can tell.

Apparently ebooks.com still sells O'Reilly books though.

-- 
Len Sorensen
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Re: [GTALUG] how many addresses possible

[James Knott via talk]

On 2023-04-30 16:20, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:

| If you're on Rogers, you get 2 IPv4 addresses.

As far as I know, only if you turn off the router function of your 
Rogers-supplied
box (modem/router/AP/...).


Yep, you have to use bridge mode.

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Re: [GTALUG] how many addresses possible

[D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk]

| From: James Knott via talk 

| If you're on Rogers, you get 2 IPv4 addresses.

As far as I know, only if you turn off the router function of your 
Rogers-supplied
box (modem/router/AP/...).
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Re: [GTALUG] how many addresses possible

[James Knott via talk]

On 2023-04-30 15:40, Lennart Sorensen via talk wrote:

Yeah I certainly get a /56 IPv6 block from my ISP along with a single
IPv4 address.  Works nicely.


If you're on Rogers, you get 2 IPv4 addresses.

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Re: [GTALUG] how many addresses possible

[Lennart Sorensen via talk]

On Sun, Apr 30, 2023 at 09:35:04AM -0500, o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
> This sounds like a reasonable solution until you actually set up the router.
> On 192.168.0.0 - - - - well I haven't found a way to talk directly to more 
> than
> 254 devices - - - - or have you?
> 
> Now if you want to blow a lot of money on routers you could have a router
> for each of the 253 addresses in 192.168.a.x   (the "a" section) - - - then 
> you
> would need one more router to manage all the other routers - - - - which to me
> seems rather redundant power hungry and not worth my time.

Certainly my router has a field for specifying the subnet size when
configuring the local network.  Seems perfectly common.

Now if you use your AP provided by Bell with the default config, then yes
it will be a /24 and they might not make it easy to change the config,
but it almost certainly can be done.

-- 
Len Sorensen
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Re: [GTALUG] how many addresses possible

[Lennart Sorensen via talk]

On Sun, Apr 30, 2023 at 09:30:27AM -0500, o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
> Perhaps you might persuade my ISP to get their collective posteriors
> in gear - - - yes?

Yeah I certainly get a /56 IPv6 block from my ISP along with a single
IPv4 address.  Works nicely.

-- 
Len Sorensen
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Re: [GTALUG] how many addresses possible

[Lennart Sorensen via talk]

On Sun, Apr 30, 2023 at 09:40:00AM -0500, o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
> You seem to have this mastered - - - - then:
> 
> How do I write more than 254 addresses in ipv4 using only the quad?
> 
> (You get no / anything - - - - just the 4 quads!
> The idea is that these are all permanently set - - - not just flitting
> temporary
> demands a la Mikkie D's example.)

They are not permanent and as said, haven't been fixed block sizes for
like 3 decades.

Nothing wrong with 192.168.0.1 to 192.168.1.254 being one network.
192.168.0.255 and 192.168.1.0 are both valid addresses in 192.168.0.0/23
subnet.  In 192.168.0.0/24 192.168.0.255 would obviously not be a valid
address.

Every device that allows an IP to be entered also has either a netmask
(which you can set to 255.255.254.0 for /23) or has the /23 notation
available.

-- 
Len Sorensen
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Re: [GTALUG] how many addresses possible

[Lennart Sorensen via talk]

On Sun, Apr 30, 2023 at 12:18:26AM -0400, Val Kulkov via talk wrote:
> Next time you connect to some public WiFi network, execute "ifconfig" to
> see your IP address and your subnet. In my observations, airports WiFi
> networks typically use the /22 subnets (up to 1022 addresses). Most
> restaurants, McDonalds included, use /24 subnets, but I have seen ones that
> use /23. I have not yet seen a public Wifi network that uses a /21 subnet
> providing up to 2046 addresses.

I have seen /16 subnets on wifi networks.  I think some are even bigger
than that.

Some of the stadium setups are insane.  2000 APs is not unusual in a
single network.  If you have 5 people and most of them have a cell
phone and decide to connect to the network, you get a lot of devices.
No idea why people go to events with expensive tickets and then spend
so much time on social media while there.

-- 
Len Sorensen
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Re: [GTALUG] The good old days of oreilly.com

[Evan Leibovitch via talk]

oreilly.com has been a subscription service for a while.

Searching for Oreilly books on Amazon or Chapters will yield some results,
though most of what they've produced in the last five years seems to be
selling for CAD$70 or more. GitOps Cookbook: Kubernetes Automation in
Practice
,
released this February, goes for $95. They're still using animals on the
covers ... but it's now just photos, not the old style of lithographs.
Surprised to see some titles like "Windows XP in a Nutshell" are still in
stock at their regular price and not in a bargain bin. "Python in a
Nutshell", also released in February, sells for $110.

I have some old nutshell handbooks which I bought in the days when they
were bargains compared to the Sybex and other books in the field. I also
have a few of those old SSC/LinuxJournal pocket guides. But that was from
back when there was nothing called Google to ask for video tutorials or man
pages available faster than you could reach for your bookshelf. And there
weren't AI-powered chat systems that could churn out usable code and admin
scripts on demand.

Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada
@evanleibovitch / @el56


On Sun, Apr 30, 2023 at 1:16 PM sciguy via talk  wrote:

> Come to think of it, the ten books on my list are missing a lot of
> books. Also, I don't think I am able to add my current purchases there
> any longer. It just lets me muck about with my profile, but not add more
> recently purchased books.
>
> On 2023-04-30 13:11, David Mason wrote:
> > I had purchased several books over the years.
> >
> > I can successfully login in to members.oreilly.com [1], but it shows 0
> > purchases.
> >
> > ...sucks...
> >
> ---
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> https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
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Re: [GTALUG] The good old days of oreilly.com

[sciguy via talk]

Come to think of it, the ten books on my list are missing a lot of 
books. Also, I don't think I am able to add my current purchases there 
any longer. It just lets me muck about with my profile, but not add more 
recently purchased books.


On 2023-04-30 13:11, David Mason wrote:

I had purchased several books over the years.

I can successfully login in to members.oreilly.com [1], but it shows 0
purchases.

...sucks...


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Re: [GTALUG] The good old days of oreilly.com

[James Knott via talk]

On 2023-04-30 13:11, David Mason via talk wrote:

I had purchased several books over the years.

I can successfully login in to members.oreilly.com 
, but it shows 0 purchases.


Mine are there and available for download.
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Re: [GTALUG] The good old days of oreilly.com

[David Mason via talk]

I had purchased several books over the years.

I can successfully login in to members.oreilly.com, but it shows 0
purchases.

...sucks...

On Sun, 30 Apr 2023 at 12:41, sciguy via talk  wrote:

> On 2023-04-30 12:10, James Knott via talk wrote:
> > On 2023-04-30 12:04, sciguy via talk wrote:
> >> I am having very little luck poking around. And to correct what I said
> >> earlier, searching specific titles leads me to a "403" error
> >> (Forbidden), not a 404 as I had said. I searched on Programming Perl,
> >> which I have the second and fourth editions, and got a "403" when I
> >> clicked on the title. The message below reads: "Your free O’Reilly
> >> trial has ended, making this content unavailable to view. For
> >> unlimited access to all O’Reilly has to offer, purchase a membership
> >> here." I also notice that on the titles I see, there are no "purchase"
> >> links, just "read" links. It sounds like for the $50 or so monthly
> >> fee, you can read anything you like. Still not sold on the idea, but
> >> clearly they have changed their marketing model.
> >
> > Search on Google for the book title.  Also, you can try
> > https://members.oreilly.com/ and log in with your ID and password.
>
> Bingo! The link to members.oreilly.com got me what I wanted! Thanks!
>
> Paul
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Re: [GTALUG] The good old days of oreilly.com

[sciguy via talk]

On 2023-04-30 12:10, James Knott via talk wrote:

On 2023-04-30 12:04, sciguy via talk wrote:
I am having very little luck poking around. And to correct what I said 
earlier, searching specific titles leads me to a "403" error 
(Forbidden), not a 404 as I had said. I searched on Programming Perl, 
which I have the second and fourth editions, and got a "403" when I 
clicked on the title. The message below reads: "Your free O’Reilly 
trial has ended, making this content unavailable to view. For 
unlimited access to all O’Reilly has to offer, purchase a membership 
here." I also notice that on the titles I see, there are no "purchase" 
links, just "read" links. It sounds like for the $50 or so monthly 
fee, you can read anything you like. Still not sold on the idea, but 
clearly they have changed their marketing model.


Search on Google for the book title.  Also, you can try 
https://members.oreilly.com/ and log in with your ID and password.


Bingo! The link to members.oreilly.com got me what I wanted! Thanks!

Paul
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Re: [GTALUG] The good old days of oreilly.com

[Stewart Russell via talk]

While this won't get you your O'Reilly titles back, Toronto Public Library
has full O'Reilly Safari access for members.

I find it useful for dipping into those books I couldn't quite ever justify
buying.

 Stewart
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Re: [GTALUG] The good old days of oreilly.com

[James Knott via talk]

On 2023-04-30 12:04, sciguy via talk wrote:
I am having very little luck poking around. And to correct what I said 
earlier, searching specific titles leads me to a "403" error 
(Forbidden), not a 404 as I had said. I searched on Programming Perl, 
which I have the second and fourth editions, and got a "403" when I 
clicked on the title. The message below reads: "Your free O’Reilly 
trial has ended, making this content unavailable to view. For 
unlimited access to all O’Reilly has to offer, purchase a membership 
here." I also notice that on the titles I see, there are no "purchase" 
links, just "read" links. It sounds like for the $50 or so monthly 
fee, you can read anything you like. Still not sold on the idea, but 
clearly they have changed their marketing model.


Search on Google for the book title.  Also, you can try 
https://members.oreilly.com/ and log in with your ID and password.

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Re: [GTALUG] The good old days of oreilly.com

[sciguy via talk]

On 2023-04-30 11:24, James Knott via talk wrote:

On 2023-04-30 11:19, sciguy via talk wrote:

Hi folks

I hadn't logged on to Oreilly.com in several years, and today I had a 
reason to do so. I had been a frequent purchaser of Oreilly books at 
one time, and recently I had become interested in their Raspberry Pi 
Cookbook, and decided to used my old login to their site and see if it 
was offered there. The search only led me to a 404, and that it 
wouldn't show me anything unless I paid a subscription fee. WTF?


I recall I had had a number of PDF bookmarks to previous purchases of 
other titles of their books. All gone. Sorry if I was out of the loop. 
I was hoping to just order the book; preferably a PDF. Is Amazon in 
control of everything now?


I have also bought a lot of their books.  They are apparently still 
there, but you can't get to them from their home page.  You can find 
them, if you search on a title.




I am having very little luck poking around. And to correct what I said 
earlier, searching specific titles leads me to a "403" error 
(Forbidden), not a 404 as I had said. I searched on Programming Perl, 
which I have the second and fourth editions, and got a "403" when I 
clicked on the title. The message below reads: "Your free O’Reilly trial 
has ended, making this content unavailable to view. For unlimited access 
to all O’Reilly has to offer, purchase a membership here." I also notice 
that on the titles I see, there are no "purchase" links, just "read" 
links. It sounds like for the $50 or so monthly fee, you can read 
anything you like. Still not sold on the idea, but clearly they have 
changed their marketing model.


Paul
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Re: [GTALUG] The good old days of oreilly.com

[James Knott via talk]

On 2023-04-30 11:19, sciguy via talk wrote:

Hi folks

I hadn't logged on to Oreilly.com in several years, and today I had a 
reason to do so. I had been a frequent purchaser of Oreilly books at 
one time, and recently I had become interested in their Raspberry Pi 
Cookbook, and decided to used my old login to their site and see if it 
was offered there. The search only led me to a 404, and that it 
wouldn't show me anything unless I paid a subscription fee. WTF?


I recall I had had a number of PDF bookmarks to previous purchases of 
other titles of their books. All gone. Sorry if I was out of the loop. 
I was hoping to just order the book; preferably a PDF. Is Amazon in 
control of everything now?


I have also bought a lot of their books.  They are apparently still 
there, but you can't get to them from their home page.  You can find 
them, if you search on a title.


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[GTALUG] The good old days of oreilly.com

[sciguy via talk]

Hi folks

I hadn't logged on to Oreilly.com in several years, and today I had a 
reason to do so. I had been a frequent purchaser of Oreilly books at one 
time, and recently I had become interested in their Raspberry Pi 
Cookbook, and decided to used my old login to their site and see if it 
was offered there. The search only led me to a 404, and that it wouldn't 
show me anything unless I paid a subscription fee. WTF?


I recall I had had a number of PDF bookmarks to previous purchases of 
other titles of their books. All gone. Sorry if I was out of the loop. I 
was hoping to just order the book; preferably a PDF. Is Amazon in 
control of everything now?


Paul
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Re: [GTALUG] how many addresses possible

[James Knott via talk]

On 2023-04-29 17:39, James Knott wrote:

Also, originally, all IPv4 addresses had the same size subnet, /8


This is shown in this document, about an early version of IPv4. It's 
shown in the diagram on page 1 and the text on page 3, which describe 
the network (8 bits) and host (24 bits) portions of the 32 bit address.  
Address classes came later and CIDR later still.


https://www.rfc-editor.org/ien/ien44.pdf
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Re: [GTALUG] how many addresses possible

[James Knott via talk]

On 2023-04-30 10:40, o1bigtenor wrote:

You seem to have this mastered - - - - then:


Yep.  I also had some courses when I was at IBM, in the late 90s, and 
also went for my CCNA a few years ago.


How do I write more than 254 addresses in ipv4 using only the quad?

(You get no / anything - - - - just the 4 quads!
The idea is that these are all permanently set - - - not just flitting
temporary
demands a la Mikkie D's example.)


You have fallen into the trap that I've been describing.  That sort of 
thinking has been obsolete for 30 years.  Have you seen any equipment 
that does not allow you to specify the subnet size on IPv4, at least 
other than consumer level gear?  All the "/" does is tell you how long 
the network and host portions of the address are.


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Re: [GTALUG] how many addresses possible

[James Knott via talk]

On 2023-04-30 10:35, o1bigtenor via talk wrote:

This sounds like a reasonable solution until you actually set up the router.
On 192.168.0.0 - - - - well I haven't found a way to talk directly to more than
254 devices - - - - or have you?

Now if you want to blow a lot of money on routers you could have a router
for each of the 253 addresses in 192.168.a.x   (the "a" section) - - - then you
would need one more router to manage all the other routers - - - - which to me
seems rather redundant power hungry and not worth my time.




There's a lot more to routers than the typical D-Link SOHO router, where 
/24 is typical.  I run pfSense, which is in many ways comparable to 
routers from Cisco, etc.  I can  choose whatever subnet size I want on 
IPv4.  On IPv6 it's always /64.  Larger networks might very well have 
more than 254 devices attached.  Of course, you don't want too many, as 
there will be a lot of broadcast noise.  There's no such thing as 
broadcasts on IPv6.



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Re: [GTALUG] how many addresses possible

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Sat, Apr 29, 2023 at 8:28 PM James Knott via talk  wrote:
>
> On 2023-04-29 21:18, Kevin Cozens via talk wrote:
> > On 2023-04-29 16:04, o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
> >> (My head is swimming with all the explanations on IP routing - - -
> >> have spent about 3 hours now looking at various documents - - - - I
> >> just can't find a clear answer. The first statement is my present
> >> network - - - I'm trying to figure out how to move beyond the access
> >> of only 254 devices at one time.
> >
> > The Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) has assigned several
> > address ranges to be used by private networks.
> >
> > Address ranges to be use by private networks are:
> > Class A: 10.0.0.0 to 10.255.255.255
> > Class B: 172.16.0.0 to 172.31.255.255
> > Class C: 192.168.0.0 to 192.168.255.255
> >
> > If 0 and 255 should not be used for the last number then the 192 block
> > gives you 254 address, 172.16 gives you 65534, and 10 gives you
> > 16777214 addresses.
> >
>
>
> And this continues the misunderstanding that the OP has that available
> address block size depends on the address.  Yes I know the 3 ranges have
> different amounts of addresses available.  What he has to learn is how
> to subnet, not follow obsolete info.
>
> I have been working with IP since early 1995, when I took some courses
> through Humber College.  Even back then, address classes were obsolete.
> And back then, sitting in the class, I realized 32 bits was nowhere near
> enough, which is why I have been advocating for IPv6, ever since I first
> read about it, in the April 1995 issue of Byte magazine.
>
>

You seem to have this mastered - - - - then:

How do I write more than 254 addresses in ipv4 using only the quad?

(You get no / anything - - - - just the 4 quads!
The idea is that these are all permanently set - - - not just flitting
temporary
demands a la Mikkie D's example.)

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] how many addresses possible

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Sat, Apr 29, 2023 at 8:20 PM James Knott via talk  wrote:
>
> On 2023-04-29 17:48, Scott Allen wrote:
> > On Sat, 29 Apr 2023 at 17:39, James Knott  wrote:
> >> That's only true because people have learned a lot of bad habits with IPv4.
> > No, it's because IPv4 addresses are annotated as x.x.x.x
> > Sticking with class size masks makes it easy to separate the network
> > address part from the device address part.
> >
>
> But then we get to the situation that led to the question in this
> thread, where people think the available addresses depends on which
> address range they're working with.  As long as the subnet size fits
> within the allocated space, there is no problem.  However it is better
> to think of address space in terms of need.  For most, that would be a
> /24, as is commonly provided.  It makes absolutely no difference whether
> that /24 is in the 192.168.0.0 /16 or 10.0.0.0 /8 blocks.  If you really
> need more, then just think of subnet mask size.
>

This sounds like a reasonable solution until you actually set up the router.
On 192.168.0.0 - - - - well I haven't found a way to talk directly to more than
254 devices - - - - or have you?

Now if you want to blow a lot of money on routers you could have a router
for each of the 253 addresses in 192.168.a.x   (the "a" section) - - - then you
would need one more router to manage all the other routers - - - - which to me
seems rather redundant power hungry and not worth my time.

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] how many addresses possible

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Sat, Apr 29, 2023 at 3:31 PM James Knott via talk  wrote:
>
> On 2023-04-29 16:04, o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
> > If I set up a router using the 192.168.1.1 I can access some 254
> > distinct IP addresses from my router.
> >
> > If I set up a router using the 176.10.1.1 how many distinct IP
> > addresses can I access?
>
> You're looking at the wrong numbers.  What determines the max is the
> subnet mask, no matter the address range.  So, a /24 gives you 254
> usable addresses, etc..  Also, forget about address classes. They've
> been obsolete for over 30 years.
>
> Now, if you really want to have fun, a LAN on IPv6 will have 18.4
> billion, billion addresses available.
>
Perhaps you might persuade my ISP to get their collective posteriors
in gear - - - yes?

Regards
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