[Talk-transit] cloudmade routing fail?
hello everyone, can anyone please tell me why cloudmade does not want to navigate on/via http://maps.cloudmade.com/?lat=48.894913lng=17.708158zoom=15directions=48.89702927061499,17.7099609375,48.89101950595075,17.71249294281006travel=footstyleId=1opened_tab=1 ? i see nothing wrong with tags/ways. thank you, joe ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] cloudmade routing fail?
Hello Jozef, I don't believe this is the right list to ask about Cloudmade services. I have forwarded your email to our support team, you should hear from them shortly. BR, Sergiy -- Sergiy Drapiko Product Manager Cloudmade On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 5:05 PM, Jozef Riha jose1...@gmail.com wrote: hello everyone, can anyone please tell me why cloudmade does not want to navigate on/via http://maps.cloudmade.com/?lat=48.894913lng=17.708158zoom=15directions=48.89702927061499,17.7099609375,48.89101950595075,17.71249294281006travel=footstyleId=1opened_tab=1 ? i see nothing wrong with tags/ways. thank you, joe ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
[Talk-hr] Netko se pravi pametan...
Daklem, korisnik http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/uhs01/edits i http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/uhs02/edits koristi Google ili neku drugu podlogu za iscrtavanje, što je čisti piratluk. Činjenica da se to može napraviti ne znači da se to smije napraviti. Također to što se prijavio jučer i što je toliko ucrtao, znači da nije bez iskustva. Iako vjerujem da se ti podaci neće obrisati, smatram da to što taj korisnik radi nije uredu. ___ Talk-hr mailing list Talk-hr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-hr
[talk-ph] Fwd: [OSM-talk] OSM Inspector now world-wide and with additional views
Really cool debugging tool -- Forwarded message -- From: Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org Date: Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:06 PM Subject: [OSM-talk] OSM Inspector now world-wide and with additional views To: Talk Openstreetmap t...@openstreetmap.org Hi, the Geofabrik OSM Inspector (tools.geofabrik.de/osmi), a debugging tool, now supports worldwide daily data (previously Europe only) for the important views, as well as several other new features. If you are interested, there's more about it on: http://blog.geofabrik.de/?p=27 Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
[OSM-talk-be] Voorstelling en vraagje
English version below Dag allemaal, Ik ben Paul Cardinaels, 25 jaar en ik ben al enkele jaren bezig met mappen voor OSM. Eerst heb ik de omgeving van Neerpelt gedaan, en nu wil ik beginnen aan de omgeving Meerle/Hoogstraten. Omdat ik verhuisd ben kan ik de TomTom van mijn ouders niet meer gebruiken, en ben ik dus op zoek naar een goedkope GPS reciever (navigatie is niet nodig) met USB-aansluiting die in .gpx-formaat kan opslaan. Hebben jullie suggesties? Ik heb al naar Garmin gekeken maar die zijn best prijzig. Groetjes, Paul Cardinaels English version: Hello everyone, I am Paul Cardinaels, I'm 25 years old and I've been mapping for a few years now. I did Neerpelt and surroundings and now I'm about to begin on Meerle/Hoogstraten. Since I moved I can't use my parents TomTom anymore, and so I'm searching for a cheap GPS reciever (navigation isn't necessary) with USB-connection and wich stores the tracks in .gpx-format. Do you guys have suggestions? I have looked at Garmin but they aren't cheap... Regards, Paul Cardinaels ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Voorstelling en vraagje
Op 1 december 2009 12:29 heeft Paul Cardinaels p.cardina...@gmail.com het volgende geschreven: Since I moved I can't use my parents TomTom anymore, and so I'm searching for a cheap GPS reciever (navigation isn't necessary) with USB-connection and wich stores the tracks in .gpx-format. Do you guys have suggestions? I have looked at Garmin but they aren't cheap... I have a Garmin Gecko 201. But you could get a GPS-tracker. It costs about 80 euro. Or a GPS-receiver, but you need a cellphone or laptop for the data. -- wannes ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Alternate bus routes
You can create a new relation with the alternate path and the parameter state=alternate (see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:route). Maybe add a note to the description parameter. If the reference is the same, keep it that way, but if the name is different use it for the name parameter. Several tram/bus routes have variants. Often the reference name is the normal one but with a stroke (that's hard to represent). For example tram 92 in Brussels can sometimes be 92 (stroked) when it only does part of the usual route. So far I've only tagged the alternate parts of route like this. Maybe we should add the rest of the route, or use super-relations (include all the variations of a route relations into one relation). Denis Moyogo Jacquerye On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 7:59 PM, Benoit Leseul benoit.les...@gmail.com wrote: Hello everyone, I'm new to this list but I've been doing some mapping in Brussels for a few months. Recently, I have been tracking bus stops in my area and found an interesting case: the bus line 41 from the STIB/MIVB. Its route happens to be different on weekdays and during the weekend, due to the closing of the Bois de la Cambre for all vehicle traffic. On the digital screens outside and inside the bus is written 41 dévié fermeture bois / 41 omgeleid sluiting bos. There are hard stops (with shelters and all) on both routes. So... how should I tag this alternate route and its stops? a) Make a new relation for the weekend route, tagged with a made-up line number (41d or something) ? b) Make a new relation only for the part of the route which differs during the weekend, tagged the same way? c) Add both routes to the existing relation? I think b) would render the best on ÖPVN-Karte, but is maybe not so useful for other tools (a trip planner for example). a) would be more interesting for other tools but look odd on the map. And c) would be plain confusing for everyone. What do you think? -- Benoit ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Voorstelling en vraagje
Dag Paul, Als het enkel is om je tracks te loggen en te gebruiken kan je - een gps receiver kopen - het goedkoopst - die de data doorstuurt naar laptop of dergelijke en ze dan loggen op de laptop, - een tracker nemen, die hetzelfde kan, maar ook zelfstandig de data kan opslaan. Op deze pagina van gpsshop vindt je een vrij uitgebreid overzicht van dergelijke apparaten http://www.gpsshop.be/category/3891/gps-ontvangers.html Zelf gebruik ik de deze http://www.gpsshop.be/product/64706/category-3891-gps-ontvangers/qstarz-bt-q1000x-travel-recorder-bluetooth-gps-ontvanger.html Die heeft een erg lange batterij-levensduur en kan ook erg veel trackpoints opslaan. Ik geloof dat ik met 1 punt per seconde toch wel makkelijk een hele dag kan tracken. De software die erbij geleverd is is windows only, en werkt enkel via de usb kabel, maar er is ook een gratis tool te vinden die met mac en linux overweg kan en bovendien ook via bluetooth werkt. De laatste tijd track ik eerder met m'n smartphone, een HTC Hero, van waaruit ik m'n tracks meteen kan doormailen in gpx formaat. Luc / Speedy PS. Heb zelf al een beetje gedaan in de omgeving van Hoogstraten Meerle, maar je zit in een omgeving waar nog best veel werk aan is ;-) On Tue, 2009-12-01 at 12:29 +0100, Paul Cardinaels wrote: English version below Dag allemaal, Ik ben Paul Cardinaels, 25 jaar en ik ben al enkele jaren bezig met mappen voor OSM. Eerst heb ik de omgeving van Neerpelt gedaan, en nu wil ik beginnen aan de omgeving Meerle/Hoogstraten. Omdat ik verhuisd ben kan ik de TomTom van mijn ouders niet meer gebruiken, en ben ik dus op zoek naar een goedkope GPS reciever (navigatie is niet nodig) met USB-aansluiting die in .gpx-formaat kan opslaan. Hebben jullie suggesties? Ik heb al naar Garmin gekeken maar die zijn best prijzig. Groetjes, Paul Cardinaels English version: Hello everyone, I am Paul Cardinaels, I'm 25 years old and I've been mapping for a few years now. I did Neerpelt and surroundings and now I'm about to begin on Meerle/Hoogstraten. Since I moved I can't use my parents TomTom anymore, and so I'm searching for a cheap GPS reciever (navigation isn't necessary) with USB-connection and wich stores the tracks in .gpx-format. Do you guys have suggestions? I have looked at Garmin but they aren't cheap... Regards, Paul Cardinaels ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] way Diest - Geel
I think I was a little bit to fast. It is about http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=51.0466lon=5.0184zoom=13 The street is called Diestsebaan between Diest and Veerle-Laakdal. The way is also tagged as cycleway. Because I use josm the way was drawn as a cycleway. In the online editor everything looks correct. Is it not better to have a seperate way as lane for bikes ? If I am not mistaken the lane is seperated from the road by trees, but I am not sure there. kind regards, Bart Ben Laenen schreef: Bart Vanherck wrote: Hello, Someone did made a cycleway of the way between Diest and Geel. Is there a reason for that ? Which way do you mean exactly? I can't find anything wrong. Ben ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] way Diest - Geel
According to sattelite imagery, the cycleway is not separated ... It might be a JOSM bug do display it as a cycleway ... I'll check tonight on a similar road in my neighbourhood ... 2009/12/1 Bart Vanherck vanherck.b...@telenet.be I think I was a little bit to fast. It is about http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=51.0466lon=5.0184zoom=13 The street is called Diestsebaan between Diest and Veerle-Laakdal. The way is also tagged as cycleway. Because I use josm the way was drawn as a cycleway. In the online editor everything looks correct. Is it not better to have a seperate way as lane for bikes ? If I am not mistaken the lane is seperated from the road by trees, but I am not sure there. kind regards, Bart Ben Laenen schreef: Bart Vanherck wrote: Hello, Someone did made a cycleway of the way between Diest and Geel. Is there a reason for that ? Which way do you mean exactly? I can't find anything wrong. Ben ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] way Diest - Geel
I think I did. I think it serves no purpose, also, it was connected wrong on most of the junctions. After reading a bit, I found a page (from Ben?) that describes it not being a good idea do to so. I also think it should never ne drawn seperate, as, logically it's the same road, fysically it's just seperate built there for the purpose of it being a very dangerous road, and to provide some form of protection to cyclists. Tim I think I was a little bit to fast. It is about http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=51.0466lon=5.0184zoom=13 The street is called Diestsebaan between Diest and Veerle-Laakdal. The way is also tagged as cycleway. Because I use josm the way was drawn as a cycleway. In the online editor everything looks correct. Is it not better to have a seperate way as lane for bikes ? If I am not mistaken the lane is seperated from the road by trees, but I am not sure there. kind regards, Bart Ben Laenen schreef: Bart Vanherck wrote: Hello, Someone did made a cycleway of the way between Diest and Geel. Is there a reason for that ? Which way do you mean exactly? I can't find anything wrong. Ben ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be _ Windows 7: helpt je meer voor elkaar te krijgen. Ontdek Windows 7. http://windows.microsoft.com/windows-7___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] cloudmade maps copyright terms and conditions
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 7:01 AM, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:41 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: If I have data derived from OSM data, do I have to distribute it? The licence does not force you to distribute or make any data available. But if you do choose to distribute it, or anything derived from it, it must be under the same licence terms as the OSM data. I read this like cloudmade could use their maps for their own purposes without redistributing it, or they have to put their maps under cc-by-sa 2.0 as well. Or did I misunderstand something? Well...does showing a map on a website mean you are distributing it? That's somewhat disputed in the US. If you're not distributing it, then you're publicly displaying it. But most courts have said it's distribution, despite the fact that people arguing for public display have a better legal argument :). CC-BY-SA doesn't seem to have any provision for public display of modified versions. Which I suppose technically means you're not allowed to do it at all. doesn't it? section 4b: You may distribute, **publicly display**, publicly perform, or publicly digitally perform a Derivative Work only under the terms of this License, ... (emphasis mine) i don't see what the fuss is about - cloudmade's tiles are CC BY-SA, cloudmade's site isn't. you can redistribute a screenshot containing only tiles under CC BY-SA. you can't distribute a screenshot of the whole site, as that would contain non-CC BY-SA stuff. although i'm sure if you asked nicely, cloudmade wouldn't mind. as richardf pointed out, the legalese could be clearer. but to me it's already clear enough. cheers, matt ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Path vs footway vs cycleway vs...
This may be too England-oriented to be generally useful but for what it is worth ... If the area of grass is a meadow or park over which there exists a large number of equivalent 'invisible' routes that could physically walked I would only use an area tag such as 'meadow' or 'park' and add 'path' for visibly walked routes. BUT ... and it is a big BUT in England and Wales ... if the area is crossed by a 'public right of way' (e.g. a 'public footpath') as defined in England and Wales then I would map the line of this (if known from acceptable sources) as highway=footway, designation=public_footpath, surface=grass, etc. whether or not the way was visible on the ground. My reasoning is (a) that it is useful and perhaps important to record the line of a way where the public has the legal right to walk and (b) that in practice many - and in some areas the majority - of public footpaths that cross pastures / fields / meadows (in particular), parkland (sometimes) and even arable / cropped land (sometimes) are not visible on the ground (even though in the case of arable land this is usually an illegal obscuration). This is so much the case that it applies quite often in my area even to named long-distance routes and to omit the segments would create unnecessary and misleading breaks in the continuity of a 'route' relationship. Just my thoughts for what they are worth .. Mike Harris -Original Message- From: Roy Wallace [mailto:waldo000...@gmail.com] Sent: 30 November 2009 21:10 To: Anthony Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org; m...@koppenhoefer.com Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Path vs footway vs cycleway vs... On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 2:08 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: What if I map the entire section of grass which is within the right of way as a polygon with highway=path, area=yes? That's how we represent infinite overlapping criss-crossing invisible-paths, like a pedestrian mall. Not bad. But what makes that area of grass a path as opposed to just an area of grass you can walk on (e.g. landuse=meadow or something + foot=yes)? Is there a difference? I tend to think paths should be limited to elongated areas, designed for or used typically for travel (other than for large vehicles like cars), with usually a constant or slowly varying width. There's probably a better definition though. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Path vs footway vs cycleway vs...
Broadly agree but why is 'meadow' not a land use? I believe that it is - in rural England at least ... See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meadow Mike Harris -Original Message- From: Anthony [mailto:o...@inbox.org] Sent: 01 December 2009 00:12 To: Roy Wallace Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org; m...@koppenhoefer.com Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Path vs footway vs cycleway vs... On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 4:10 PM, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 2:08 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: What if I map the entire section of grass which is within the right of way as a polygon with highway=path, area=yes? That's how we represent infinite overlapping criss-crossing invisible-paths, like a pedestrian mall. Not bad. But what makes that area of grass a path as opposed to just an area of grass you can walk on (e.g. landuse=meadow or something + foot=yes)? Is there a difference? Well, I didn't know landuse tags were routable. And landuse=meadow sounds to me like a terrible tag (meadow is not a type of usage of land). But I think the key difference is that the area of land is located in a right of way. And a second key difference is that it's useful for routing purposes. I tend to think paths should be limited to elongated areas, designed for or used typically for travel (other than for large vehicles like cars), with usually a constant or slowly varying width. There's probably a better definition though. I'd say this strip of land qualifies by that definition. Length, about 80 meters. Width: about 10-15 meters. Used quite often for pedestrian travel (it's the way you get to the park, plus school children regularly walk across it on their way to/from school). The width is fairly constant. Frankly, I don't see much point in using an area, unless you're going to use an area for basically everything. I was kind of being sarcastic about that. But whatever. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Path vs footway vs cycleway vs...
On Tue, 1 Dec 2009, Mike Harris wrote: Broadly agree but why is 'meadow' not a land use? I believe that it is - in rural England at least ... See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meadow meadow is a statement of what grows there landuse could be grazing or recreation or hay production ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Cloudmade routing
Is this a bug in cloudmade routing or is there some problem with the tagging of our roads in this example? See http://maps.cloudmade.com/?lat=58.41374lng=15.623503zoom=15directions=58.41259318415956,15.63929557800293,58.41565019567137,15.625476837158203travel=carstyleId=1opened_tab=1 The routing has avoided the bridge Tullbron which is a bridge which is perfectly fine to drive on. I get the same route for both fastest and shortest, neighter is probably correct. /Jonas ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] connection between 2 islands
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 12:25 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/12/1 OJ W ojwli...@googlemail.com Edit the coastline so that it joins the islands instead of separating them but won't this operation make one island instead of 2 that they are? cheers, Martin If they're joined by dry land, they're not technically two islands are they? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] connection between 2 islands
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 5:36 AM, Cartinus carti...@xs4all.nl wrote: On Tuesday 01 December 2009 00:20:20 Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: there is a proposal for it since March 2007, you can simply find it by typing causeway in search. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Causeway That page says: Status: Abandoned That search shows you as the fourth result that it is a rejected feature. Apparently more people didn't find it worthwhile to pursue that tag separately. People seemed to be more interested in: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Water_cover p.s. not sure that this proposal is abandoned notices actually tell you much about the popularity or otherwise of that tag - it's just someone's way of reminding us that we're not as enthusiastic as they would like about voting on the wiki. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Cloudmade routing
-Original Message- From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk- boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Jonas Svensson Sent: 1 December 2009 09:08 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk] Cloudmade routing Is this a bug in cloudmade routing or is there some problem with the tagging of our roads in this example? See http://maps.cloudmade.com/?lat=58.41374lng=15.623503zoom=15directio ns=58.41259318415956,15.63929557800293,58.41565019567137,15.62547683715 8203travel=carstyleId=1opened_tab=1 The routing has avoided the bridge Tullbron which is a bridge which is perfectly fine to drive on. I get the same route for both fastest and shortest, neighter is probably correct. Well the data for a route via the bridge Tullbron looks fine to me. It definitely looks like it's related to the bridge itself though. If I move A to somewhere in the middle of the short way immediately east of the bridge (4472673) then it still avoids the bridge. If I place both A and B on the bridge it doesn't resolve to a route. Nor if I straddle A and B over each end of the bridge. So, my guess is that the bridge isn't in Cloudmade's underlying routing data for some reason. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Cloudmade routing
2009/12/1 Gregory Williams gregory.willi...@purplegeodesoftware.co.uk B over each end of the bridge. So, my guess is that the bridge isn't in Cloudmade's underlying routing data for some reason. +1. Looking on other places on the map I guess the data is at least 1 week old. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] [Potlatch 1.3a] Yahoo images jumping while repositioning
Hi I just submitted a bugreport for Potlatch 1.3a: http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/2528 When you try to repostion the Yahoo-Background-Image via space+left mouse the image jumps. Could somebody comfirm? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Potlatch 1.3a] Yahoo images jumping while repositioning
On Tue, December 1, 2009 19:24, Peter Herison wrote: Hi I just submitted a bugreport for Potlatch 1.3a: http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/2528 When you try to repostion the Yahoo-Background-Image via space+left mouse the image jumps. Could somebody comfirm? Yes, I noticed this. I reported it via the mailing list, but not very clearly, and I never submitted a bug report as I am a bad person. Andrew ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Potlatch 1.3a] Yahoo images jumping while repositioning
On Tue, 1 Dec 2009, Andrew Errington wrote: Yes, I noticed this. I reported it via the mailing list, but not very clearly, and I never submitted a bug report as I am a bad person. an extra hours mapping as penance ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] connection between 2 islands
2009/12/1 OJ W ojwli...@googlemail.com On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 12:25 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/12/1 OJ W ojwli...@googlemail.com Edit the coastline so that it joins the islands instead of separating them but won't this operation make one island instead of 2 that they are? If they're joined by dry land, they're not technically two islands are they? well, if the road surface is dry, but below the water goes/differs through the embankmenk/causeway, I probably wouldn't consider that dry land. I would consider it 2 islands with a connection. cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] connection between 2 islands
2009/12/1 Cartinus carti...@xs4all.nl On Tuesday 01 December 2009 00:20:20 Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: there is a proposal for it since March 2007, you can simply find it by typing causeway in search. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Causeway That page says: Status: Abandoned Apparently more people didn't find it worthwhile to pursue that tag separately. Apparently some wiki fiddler changed the status to abandoned, but it's easy to revitalize it. I just changed it back to Draft ;-) cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Potlatch 1.3a] Yahoo images jumping while repositioning
Peter Herison wrote: When you try to repostion the Yahoo-Background-Image via space+left mouse the image jumps. Could somebody comfirm? It would be helpful to have the URL of somewhere where this happens - i.e. lat, lon and crucially, zoom level. I haven't been able to reproduce it on a cursory check, but then I rarely use the Yahoo imagery. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/-Potlatch-1.3a--Yahoo-images-jumping-while-repositioning-tp26589615p26590415.html Sent from the OpenStreetMap - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] cloudmade maps copyright terms and conditions
Hi all, I'm aware that this topic is somehow delicate, but I was quite astonished when I had a look at Cloudmade's Terms and Conditions http://cloudmade.com/terms_conditions espescially Part 6: * ### 6. Ownership; Proprietary Rights.* As between the Parties, the CloudMade Site including the content, visual interfaces, interactive features, information, graphics, design, compilation, computer code, products, software, services, and all other elements of the CloudMade Site that are provided by CloudMade (but excluding the Map Data, which are governed solely under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution Share-Alike 2.0 Licensehttp://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/) (*CloudMade Materials*) are owned and/or licensed by CloudMade. CloudMade Materials do not include Non-CloudMade Content (as defined below). Except as expressly authorized by CloudMade, you agree not to sell, license, distribute, copy, modify, publicly perform or display, transmit, publish, edit, adapt, create derivative works from, or otherwise make unauthorized use of the CloudMade Site or the CloudMade Materials. CloudMade reserves all rights not expressly granted in these Terms. User shall not acquire any right, title, or interest to the CloudMade Materials, except for the limited rights set forth in these Terms. ### The claim copyright on graphics and design and restrict just the map data to cc-by-sa. IMHO that inhebits e.g. that I take a screenshot of their map and put it on my website. Looking at the legal faq in the wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Legal_FAQ If I have data derived from OSM data, do I have to distribute it? The licence does not force you to distribute or make any data available. But if you do choose to distribute it, or anything derived from it, it must be under the same licence terms as the OSM data. I read this like cloudmade could use their maps for their own purposes without redistributing it, or they have to put their maps under cc-by-sa 2.0 as well. Or did I misunderstand something? cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] cloudmade maps copyright terms and conditions
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:41 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: If I have data derived from OSM data, do I have to distribute it? The licence does not force you to distribute or make any data available. But if you do choose to distribute it, or anything derived from it, it must be under the same licence terms as the OSM data. I read this like cloudmade could use their maps for their own purposes without redistributing it, or they have to put their maps under cc-by-sa 2.0 as well. Or did I misunderstand something? Well...does showing a map on a website mean you are distributing it? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Good routing vs legal routing (was: Path vs footway vs cycleway vs...)
2009/12/1 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org And then both axes are not really boolean. Between the physically possible and the physically impossible may lie an area that requires more skill, better vehicles or simply means a higher risk of accidents. amenity=footway, surface=wire, risk=very_high? http://staalplaat.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/philippe-petit-wtc-tightrope2.jpg cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] cloudmade maps copyright terms and conditions
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:41 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: The claim copyright on graphics and design and restrict just the map data to cc-by-sa. IMHO that inhebits e.g. that I take a screenshot of their map and put it on my website. Looking at the legal faq in the wiki: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Legal_FAQ If I have data derived from OSM data, do I have to distribute it? The licence does not force you to distribute or make any data available. But if you do choose to distribute it, or anything derived from it, it must be under the same licence terms as the OSM data. It's hard to read the legal fineprint and really understand it, but are you saying: I should be able to take a screenshot of the cloudmade user interface, and redistribute it as cc-by-sa? If so, that's just silly. This term here: (but excluding the Map Data, which are governed solely under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution Share-Alike 2.0 Licensehttp://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/) seems to do exactly what it ought to: it says that everything on the site is CloudMade's except for the map, which is OSM, and is distributed under the OSM terms. It seems exactly as it should, to me. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Path vs footway vs cycleway vs...
To quote from the wikipedia link I included Especially in the United Kingdom and Ireland, the term meadow is commonly used in its original sense to mean a haymeadow; grassland cut annually for hay I cannot see the difference between grassland cut annually for hay and hay production. By definition a meadow is not used for grazing (or there wouldn't be any hay) and only informally for recreation (lovers in the grass). Note the same wikipedia link defines 'pasture' where the land use is grazing. Mike Harris -Original Message- From: Liz [mailto:ed...@billiau.net] Sent: 01 December 2009 09:01 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Path vs footway vs cycleway vs... On Tue, 1 Dec 2009, Mike Harris wrote: Broadly agree but why is 'meadow' not a land use? I believe that it is - in rural England at least ... See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meadow meadow is a statement of what grows there landuse could be grazing or recreation or hay production ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] cloudmade maps copyright terms and conditions
2009/12/1 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com If so, that's just silly. really? This term here: (but excluding the Map Data, which are governed solely under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution Share-Alike 2.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/) seems to do exactly what it ought to: it says that everything on the site is CloudMade's except for the map, which is OSM, and is distributed under the OSM terms. It seems exactly as it should, to me. fine, but to me it seems it doesn't care for the viral aspects of our current license, that is: every derived work (derived from our data) must have the same license: cc-by-sa 2.0 cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Path vs footway vs cycleway vs...
2009/12/1 Liz ed...@billiau.net On Tue, 1 Dec 2009, Mike Harris wrote: Broadly agree but why is 'meadow' not a land use? I believe that it is - in rural England at least ... See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meadow meadow is a statement of what grows there landuse could be grazing or recreation or hay production while this might be correct in Terms of language or not (see Mike Harris' post), it doesn't meet with OSM reality, where landuse and landcover are used sinonimously. Mapfeatures state that landuse is a physical feature (strange, isn't it?). cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] cloudmade maps copyright terms and conditions
On Tue, 1 Dec 2009 13:58:35 +0100, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: fine, but to me it seems it doesn't care for the viral aspects of our current license, that is: every derived work (derived from our data) must have the same license: cc-by-sa 2.0 A website is no derived work of a map presented in it. It is not adding any data to the map or changing the map itself in a significant way. Merely including something is not relevant. Just like Linux-Distributions containing non-free software and lots of unaltered GPL-software. Marcus ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Non-junctioning crossing roads
Hi all, Is it ever correct for two roads to cross physically, at the same level, but not create a junction between them? The situation I have looks like: C | A---+---B | v | D With apologies for ASCII art. Cars go from A to B, or from C to D, but they can't turn. It's controlled by traffic lights. So, do I create the junction represented by the +, or just let them cross over? If I create the junction, how do I stop routing software trying to make turns? It's here if want to see it (Nearmap imagery): http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=-37.85348lon=144.979389zoom=20 Queens Rd southbound branches to become Lakeside Drive, crosses Queens Rd Northbound. Sorry for the noob question, just wanted to make sure I get this right. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] cloudmade maps copyright terms and conditions
2009/12/1 marcus.wolsc...@googlemail.com A website is no derived work of a map presented in it. It is not adding any data to the map or changing the map itself in a significant way. Merely including something is not relevant. Just like Linux-Distributions containing non-free software and lots of unaltered GPL-software. Yes, that's not my point. I'm not talking about the website itself but about the map in it. Cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] cloudmade maps copyright terms and conditions
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 11:58 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: really? Ja rly. If every website that wanted to use OSM data was forced to open license the entire rest of their site, all their artwork etc, it would be a massive disencentive to using it. Also, don't forget, just because the web design is copyright, doesn't mean you can't screenshot it and quote it in a blog or something - there are provisions for fair use. Or you could just ask permission. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Non-junctioning crossing roads
In your special case I guess it would be OK to not create a junction. That will however lead to (false) warnings in OSM data validators and there is a chance that someone else will insert that junction later on, so I'll recommend putting the junction there now and use restriction relations. (e.g. only_stright_on) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:restriction Konrad 2009/12/1 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: Hi all, Is it ever correct for two roads to cross physically, at the same level, but not create a junction between them? The situation I have looks like: C | A---+---B | v | D With apologies for ASCII art. Cars go from A to B, or from C to D, but they can't turn. It's controlled by traffic lights. So, do I create the junction represented by the +, or just let them cross over? If I create the junction, how do I stop routing software trying to make turns? It's here if want to see it (Nearmap imagery): http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=-37.85348lon=144.979389zoom=20 Queens Rd southbound branches to become Lakeside Drive, crosses Queens Rd Northbound. Sorry for the noob question, just wanted to make sure I get this right. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Potlatch 2
Am 30.11.2009 11:03, Richard Fairhurst: I’d like to tell you about Potlatch 2, the all-new version of the OpenStreetMap online editor. (...) So have a play, let us know what you think, and grab the source. You can find a read-only running version at: http://www.geowiki.com/potlatch2/ Tried http://www.geowiki.com/potlatch2/ with Firefox and IE just some minutes ago and both just stuck with Loading data from www.openstreetmap.org. I see the Loading data... text appearing for a second in the upper right corner but apart from that: nothing. Claudius ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Non-junctioning crossing roads
Yes there should be a node at the crossing. Most of those ways are one way , so routing software would not allow many turns anyway. The only turn I could see being currently as valid would be when going south on Lakeside Drive and turning right onto the northbound carriageway. To stop this you need a turn restriction relation. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:restriction Basically with Lakeside drive having role From, the junction node having a role via, and the Northbound carriage way having a role to David - Original Message - From: Steve Bennett To: Open Street Map mailing list Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 1:14 PM Subject: [OSM-talk] Non-junctioning crossing roads Hi all, Is it ever correct for two roads to cross physically, at the same level, but not create a junction between them? The situation I have looks like: C | A---+---B | v | D With apologies for ASCII art. Cars go from A to B, or from C to D, but they can't turn. It's controlled by traffic lights. So, do I create the junction represented by the +, or just let them cross over? If I create the junction, how do I stop routing software trying to make turns? It's here if want to see it (Nearmap imagery): http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=-37.85348lon=144.979389zoom=20 Queens Rd southbound branches to become Lakeside Drive, crosses Queens Rd Northbound. Sorry for the noob question, just wanted to make sure I get this right. Steve -- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Non-junctioning crossing roads
- Original Message - From: David Groom To: Steve Bennett ; Open Street Map mailing list Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 1:33 PM Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Non-junctioning crossing roads Yes there should be a node at the crossing. Most of those ways are one way , so routing software would not allow many turns anyway. The only turn I could see being currently as valid would be when going south on Lakeside Drive and turning right onto the northbound carriageway. To stop this you need a turn restriction relation. Oops. I could see a valid turn from the northbound carriage way left onto lakeside drive, so you would need a no_left turn restriction to stop that. Alternatively the whole junction restriction could be accomplished as konrad said by a couple of only_straight_on restrictions David http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:restriction Basically with Lakeside drive having role From, the junction node having a role via, and the Northbound carriage way having a role to David - Original Message - From: Steve Bennett To: Open Street Map mailing list Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 1:14 PM Subject: [OSM-talk] Non-junctioning crossing roads Hi all, Is it ever correct for two roads to cross physically, at the same level, but not create a junction between them? The situation I have looks like: C | A---+---B | v | D With apologies for ASCII art. Cars go from A to B, or from C to D, but they can't turn. It's controlled by traffic lights. So, do I create the junction represented by the +, or just let them cross over? If I create the junction, how do I stop routing software trying to make turns? It's here if want to see it (Nearmap imagery): http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=-37.85348lon=144.979389zoom=20 Queens Rd southbound branches to become Lakeside Drive, crosses Queens Rd Northbound. Sorry for the noob question, just wanted to make sure I get this right. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Non-junctioning crossing roads
On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 12:39 AM, David Groom revi...@pacific-rim.netwrote: Alternatively the whole junction restriction could be accomplished as konrad said by a couple of only_straight_on restrictions Ok, I've done that. About time I learnt how to create relations :) Anyone want to check that I got it right? Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Congratulations, community. was: Cloudmade routing
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 5:10 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/12/1 Gregory Williams gregory.willi...@purplegeodesoftware.co.uk B over each end of the bridge. So, my guess is that the bridge isn't in Cloudmade's underlying routing data for some reason. +1. Looking on other places on the map I guess the data is at least 1 week old. Martin's comment above made me think about how participating in OpenStreetMap has changed my perspective. That we can look at a map and observe that the data is perhaps one week out of date is amazing to me. I can't imagine saying / hearing that before my participation in OSM. Look at what the OpenStreetMap community has done for us and to us! We expect perfection. :-) So if, in fact, CloudMade has week-old data that is giving sub-optimal routing results in this case, I think that we should congratulate ourselves and them. Look at how much we have come to expect from our maps. We must be doing something right. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] OSM Inspector now world-wide and with additional views
Hi, the Geofabrik OSM Inspector (tools.geofabrik.de/osmi), a debugging tool, now supports worldwide daily data (previously Europe only) for the important views, as well as several other new features. If you are interested, there's more about it on: http://blog.geofabrik.de/?p=27 Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Inspector now world-wide and with additional views
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, the Geofabrik OSM Inspector (tools.geofabrik.de/osmi), a debugging tool, now supports worldwide daily data (previously Europe only) for the important views, as well as several other new features. If you are interested, there's more about it on: http://blog.geofabrik.de/?p=27 Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, ... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] cloudmade maps copyright terms and conditions
2009/12/1 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 11:58 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer Ja rly. If every website that wanted to use OSM data was forced to open license the entire rest of their site, all their artwork etc, it would be a massive disencentive to using it. If I understand him correctly he is not talking about website or any additional tools but about rastered MAP tiles! Lafriks ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Path vs footway vs cycleway vs...
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 8:06 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/12/1 Liz ed...@billiau.net On Tue, 1 Dec 2009, Mike Harris wrote: Broadly agree but why is 'meadow' not a land use? I believe that it is - in rural England at least ... See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meadow meadow is a statement of what grows there landuse could be grazing or recreation or hay production while this might be correct in Terms of language or not (see Mike Harris' post), it doesn't meet with OSM reality, where landuse and landcover are used sinonimously. Mapfeatures state that landuse is a physical feature (strange, isn't it?). Yes, de facto OSM puts lots of land cover items into landuse. That doesn't make it right. The landuse tag should be for land use or land cover, not both. Regarding the use of leisure=park to represent the ability to travel over an area, does that mean we have to cut out the areas of a park which physically can't be traveled over (a building, a pond, a marsh area)? Or should the presence of one of these (or other non-routable) features at the same layer override the routability (or change it, as I guess technically you could swim/wade across the pond :)? I took leisure=park to be a use designation. I see from the wiki it's technically a description of land cover, though, in which case I'm wrong to include a building within a park as part of the leisure=park. I never took anything other than highway (positive) and barrier (negative) to be definitive statements regarding routing. But maybe that could work. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Non-junctioning crossing roads
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 2:42 PM, Steve Bennett Be careful. The question about the junction node is NOT about routing but about physical modeling. Even if both roads are not allowing turning left or right, you have to add a junction node (and the relations about turning restrictions), othewise we will interpret them as being at different levels and perhaps the tags layer and bridge are missing. It is the same if a road is crossing a railway : add a junction node if they are at the same physical level (then add the tag junction=crossing or level_crossing) and DON'T create a junction node if they are at different levels (then add the tags bridge/tunnel/layer as usual). Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] cloudmade maps copyright terms and conditions
On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 1:21 AM, Lauris Bukšis-Haberkorns lafr...@gmail.comwrote: If I understand him correctly he is not talking about website or any additional tools but about rastered MAP tiles! but excluding the Map Data It's pretty clear. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Congratulations, community. was: Cloudmade routing
On Tue, 1 Dec 2009, Richard Weait wrote: So if, in fact, CloudMade has week-old data that is giving sub-optimal routing results in this case, I think that we should congratulate ourselves and them. The bridge itself has not been changed for almost a month and it has been around since 2006 in OSM. So I am not sure one can judge very much from this example. /Jonas ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Non-junctioning crossing roads
Thanks Pieren, that's the kind of answer I was looking for: NO it's never a good idea to have two highways cross at the same level without an explicit junction. Steve On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 1:44 AM, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 2:42 PM, Steve Bennett Be careful. The question about the junction node is NOT about routing but about physical modeling. Even if both roads are not allowing turning left or right, you have to add a junction node (and the relations about turning restrictions), othewise we will interpret them as being at different levels and perhaps the tags layer and bridge are missing. It is the same if a road is crossing a railway : add a junction node if they are at the same physical level (then add the tag junction=crossing or level_crossing) and DON'T create a junction node if they are at different levels (then add the tags bridge/tunnel/layer as usual). Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Osmarender layer not working
Just thought I'd ask - the Osmarender layer isn't displaying for me, as of the last 24 hours or so, maybe more. I just get a white page that keeps trying to load... (This is through the normal openstreetmap.org view...) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Inspector now world-wide and with additional views
Frederik Big thanks from me for the update. Particularly for adding Places. Can you pass my personal thanks to Jochen? He shared draft with me (was my original request) and I was just too sloppy to have responded to him personally on it. Cheers STEVE Steve Chilton, Learning Support Fellow Manager of e-Learning Academic Development Centre for Educational Technology Middlesex University phone/fax: 020 8411 5355 email: ste...@mdx.ac.uk http://www.mdx.ac.uk/aboutus/elearning/chiltons.asp Chair of the Society of Cartographers: http://www.soc.org.uk/ SoC conference 2009: http://www.soc.org.uk/southampton09/ -Original Message- From: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Frederik Ramm Sent: 01 December 2009 14:06 To: Talk Openstreetmap Subject: [OSM-talk] OSM Inspector now world-wide and with additional views Hi, the Geofabrik OSM Inspector (tools.geofabrik.de/osmi), a debugging tool, now supports worldwide daily data (previously Europe only) for the important views, as well as several other new features. If you are interested, there's more about it on: http://blog.geofabrik.de/?p=27 Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] cloudmade maps copyright terms and conditions
Steve Bennett wrote: On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 1:21 AM, Lauris Bukis-Haberkorns lafriks at gmail.comwrote: If I understand him correctly he is not talking about website or any additional tools but about rastered MAP tiles! but excluding the Map Data It's pretty clear. Martin is correct. His point is that under CC-BY-SA, the map tiles - not just the data - _must_ be licensed as CC-BY-SA too. Map tiles are a derivative work of map data under CC-BY-SA. The CM TCs don't make this clear. Where they say: (but excluding the Map Data, which are governed solely under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution Share-Alike 2.0 License) they should, I believe, say: (but excluding the Map Data and Derivative Works thereof, which are... Follow-ups to legal-talk. cheers Richard ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Potlatch 1.3a] Yahoo images jumping while repositioning
Richard Fairhurst schrieb: Peter Herison wrote: When you try to repostion the Yahoo-Background-Image via space+left mouse the image jumps. Could somebody comfirm? It would be helpful to have the URL of somewhere where this happens - i.e. lat, lon and crucially, zoom level. I haven't been able to reproduce it on a cursory check, but then I rarely use the Yahoo imagery. http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=50.2006lon=8.64432zoom=17 http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=26.55604lon=-99.15836zoom=16 http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=-51.6106lon=-69.3111zoom=14 (No imagery at this zoomlevel but the We're sorry...-Tiles jumps also) So it looks like that this is independet of position. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] cloudmade maps copyright terms and conditions
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 7:01 AM, Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 9:41 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: If I have data derived from OSM data, do I have to distribute it? The licence does not force you to distribute or make any data available. But if you do choose to distribute it, or anything derived from it, it must be under the same licence terms as the OSM data. I read this like cloudmade could use their maps for their own purposes without redistributing it, or they have to put their maps under cc-by-sa 2.0 as well. Or did I misunderstand something? Well...does showing a map on a website mean you are distributing it? That's somewhat disputed in the US. If you're not distributing it, then you're publicly displaying it. But most courts have said it's distribution, despite the fact that people arguing for public display have a better legal argument :). CC-BY-SA doesn't seem to have any provision for public display of modified versions. Which I suppose technically means you're not allowed to do it at all. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Osmosis and --rii
I'm using osmosis to download replicate diffs via the --rii task and write them out to change files using --wxc. Is there any way to have osmosis name the output file with the sequence ID or timestamp of the last replicate it downloaded? I'm using a script to name them with the current system timestamp when osmosis was invoked, but that's not the timestamp of when they were committed on the osm server. -Jeremy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Osmosis and --rii
Hi, Jeremy Adams wrote: I'm using osmosis to download replicate diffs via the --rii task and write them out to change files using --wxc. Is there any way to have osmosis name the output file with the sequence ID or timestamp of the last replicate it downloaded? I'm using a script to name them with the current system timestamp when osmosis was invoked, but that's not the timestamp of when they were committed on the osm server. Why not modify your script to let osmosis write to a temp .osc file and then rename that according to what Osmosis put into its state.txt file? Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] opencyclemap and car directions
Hi, I was told today by a bicycle commuter that openstreemap is interesting but unsuccessful because opencyclemap is wrong. His point was: opencyclemap show the directions for cars but not for cyclists: in his city, there are a lot of streets where car can only go one way, but cyclists can go both. These streets are correctly mapped (have the cycleway=opposite_lane|opposite_track|opposite) but on cyclemap layer, are still represented as oneway on opencyclemap. So, I explained the difference between data and its representation, and I explained that that osm is not unsuccessful. But I also understand my interlocutor point of view: opencyclemap is supposed to be a cyclist map, but it shows directions for cars. So, I was wondering if you knew why this is the way it is ? arno signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Osmosis and --rii
Hi, Jeremy Adams wrote: I'm using osmosis to download replicate diffs via the --rii task and write them out to change files using --wxc. Is there any way to have osmosis name the output file with the sequence ID or timestamp of the last replicate it downloaded? I'm using a script to name them with the current system timestamp when osmosis was invoked, but that's not the timestamp of when they were committed on the osm server. Why not modify your script to let osmosis write to a temp .osc file and then rename that according to what Osmosis put into its state.txt file? Bye Frederik That's my plan B. I'm not a superstar when it comes to bash, so I'll have to do some research on how to read the state.txt file and pull the sequence number out. -Jeremy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] connection between 2 islands
Cartinus wrote: On Tuesday 01 December 2009 00:20:20 Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: there is a proposal for it since March 2007, you can simply find it by typing causeway in search. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Causeway That page says: Status: Abandoned That search shows you as the fourth result that it is a rejected feature. Apparently more people didn't find it worthwhile to pursue that tag separately. IMHO it is a very important difference that the causeway is frequently below water (tides). Hence it should be marked different. Where do you get the idea that a causeway is periodically inundated from? There certainly are some that are inundated at high tide, but a lot of them are not. 1) If the raised bank crosses a lake or the sea, it is called a causeway. 2) If the raised bank crosses a dry valley or a valley with a smal creek, it is called an embankment. 3) If the raised bank crosses a swamp or marsh, it can be called either a causeway or an embankment. Ergo: the English language is fuzzy about the difference. Even the rendering example on the embankment=yes wiki page is about a cycleway crossing a lake. If you really want to tag them differently it probably more in line with other OSM tags, to tag it as embankment=causeway. See e.g. the bridge=viaduct tag. Actually if you read most definitions closely, it's not that fuzzy. The causeway is the byway. It can be on an embankment or some other raised structure, such as low piles (concrete pillars). It can be over water, swamp, or sand. An embankment is a man-made structure, usually earthen or gravel, it can be built on dry or wet land or in water. An embankment doesn't necessarily include a byway of any type. A levee is an embankment, as is a dike, as is the stadium seating at a local high school athletic field. I personally don't think embankment=causeway is appropriate. I might go the other way, i.e., causeway=embankment, to distinguish if from a causeway built on piles (causeway=bridge?). Or, just causeway=yes, embankment=yes. But, I'm responding in two different talk threads. Here, and where this belongs, under tagging. -- Randy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] connection between 2 islands
Liz wrote: On Tue, 1 Dec 2009, Cartinus wrote: Where do you get the idea that a causeway is periodically inundated from? When it is an Australian causeway in a dry creek bed. That would not be a causeway in US English. Is the byway running along the creek or just crossing it (what we in Texas call a low-water crossing)? -- Randy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] connection between 2 islands
OJ W wrote: On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 12:25 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/12/1 OJ W ojwli...@googlemail.com Edit the coastline so that it joins the islands instead of separating them but won't this operation make one island instead of 2 that they are? cheers, Martin If they're joined by dry land, they're not technically two islands are they? Well, they were before the embankment was created, and they might very well have different names. Would you say it is a single island with two names in that case. and then tag the area way with name_1 and name_2, even though the names only apply to one weight on each end of the dumbell? I think the islands and the embankment should be defined by three different, but adjoining (common nodes at each end of the embankment) areas. -- Randy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Osmosis and --rii
Hi, Jeremy Adams wrote: That's my plan B. I'm not a superstar when it comes to bash, so I'll have to do some research on how to read the state.txt file and pull the sequence number out. SEQUENCE=`grep sequenceNumber state.txt|cut -d= -f2` mv osmosis-out.osc $SEQUENCE.osc Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Osmosis and --rii
Jeremy Adams wrote: That's my plan B. I'm not a superstar when it comes to bash, so I'll have to do some research on how to read the state.txt file and pull the sequence number out. SEQUENCE=`grep sequenceNumber state.txt|cut -d= -f2` mv osmosis-out.osc $SEQUENCE.osc Bye Frederik Many thanks - works perfectly. -Jeremy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Osmarender layer not working
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 4:52 PM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: Just thought I'd ask - the Osmarender layer isn't displaying for me, as of the last 24 hours or so, maybe more. I just get a white page that keeps trying to load... It's working just fine for me. --Ciprian ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Good routing vs legal routing (was: Path vs footway vs cycleway vs...)
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/12/1 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org And then both axes are not really boolean. Between the physically possible and the physically impossible may lie an area that requires more skill, better vehicles or simply means a higher risk of accidents. amenity=footway, surface=wire, risk=very_high? http://staalplaat.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/philippe-petit-wtc-tightrope2.jpg risk=very_high isn't verifiable. Just in case you were serious :P ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] connection between 2 islands
On Wed, 2 Dec 2009, Randy wrote: Liz wrote: On Tue, 1 Dec 2009, Cartinus wrote: Where do you get the idea that a causeway is periodically inundated from? When it is an Australian causeway in a dry creek bed. That would not be a causeway in US English. Is the byway running along the creek or just crossing it (what we in Texas call a low-water crossing)? The Strine causeway is equivalent to ford in UK (from whence I came, last century). It is a concrete pad in the bottom of a waterway to allow the vehicles to cross the creek. This one shows the periodic inundation http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/2009/01/06/25441_ntnews.html This one is an older one which more closely represents the UK type, but again is designed to be flooded. http://archivesoutside.records.nsw.gov.au/can-you-date-this-photograph-2/ A causeway across a creek, with water http://www.communitywebs.org/FriendsofInnaminckaStrzelecki/pictures2.html ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] connection between 2 islands
Yes, US English would also call that a ford. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: Liz ed...@billiau.net Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 10:12:49 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] connection between 2 islands On Wed, 2 Dec 2009, Randy wrote: Liz wrote: On Tue, 1 Dec 2009, Cartinus wrote: Where do you get the idea that a causeway is periodically inundated from? When it is an Australian causeway in a dry creek bed. That would not be a causeway in US English. Is the byway running along the creek or just crossing it (what we in Texas call a low-water crossing)? The Strine causeway is equivalent to ford in UK (from whence I came, last century). It is a concrete pad in the bottom of a waterway to allow the vehicles to cross the creek. This one shows the periodic inundation http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/2009/01/06/25441_ntnews.html This one is an older one which more closely represents the UK type, but again is designed to be flooded. http://archivesoutside.records.nsw.gov.au/can-you-date-this-photograph-2/ A causeway across a creek, with water http://www.communitywebs.org/FriendsofInnaminckaStrzelecki/pictures2.html ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Non-junctioning crossing roads
On Wed, 2 Dec 2009, Steve Bennett wrote: With apologies for ASCII art. Cars go from A to B, or from C to D, but they can't turn. It's controlled by traffic lights. So, do I create the junction represented by the +, or just let them cross over? If I create the junction, how do I stop routing software trying to make turns? Swap back to your pushbike, or your legs only, mentally. On foot you can definitely and legally turn left or right. So its a valid junction for pedestrian routing. On the pushie, you could do a left turn with legal risks, or do a kerb jump to manage the left turn. Probably not valid for pushbike routing. Now add that to the relation you are making ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Vegetation page
I think I might write up some cross-cutting wiki pages like vegetation, pointing people in the right directions for the subtle distinctions between natural= and landuse= etc. Ok, I did it. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Vegetation Lots of common bush/tree words link there. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Non-junctioning crossing roads
On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 10:26 AM, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: Swap back to your pushbike, or your legs only, mentally. On foot you can definitely and legally turn left or right. So its a valid junction for pedestrian routing. Ah yes, that's a very valid point. Queens Rd is a horrible road for either walking or cycling though. No footpath northbound, and narrow left lane and no cycle lane. And especially when there's the lovely Lakeside Drive so nearby... Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] connection between 2 islands
I think this is a case where the different versions of English are not quite the same. To me: A ford is a crossing that is usually underwater all the time. However the water is shallow enough that you can cross anyway, just expect to get a bit wet. It may be dry if the whole river dries up, or unsafe to cross if flooding, but this is not the usual state. A causeway is a crossing that is built up above the usual water level, so you can usually cross dry. This may be an embankment or concrete slab with culverts under it for the usual water flow, or a very low bridge/pier structure. However, when high water comes, water is expected to flow over the causeway as well as under it. It may or may not still be crossable depending on flow. A bridge is built high enough above the water that there is an appreciable gap between it and the water level, and water is not expected to cover it at any time. However, a structure like this that is on a continuous series of pillars (like a pier) instead of some sort of arch structure may still be called a causeway, even if there is no chance of it ever flooding. Stephen 2009/12/2 John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com: Yes, US English would also call that a ford. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] connection between 2 islands
IMHO, the US English/Australian English issue here is spurious. Australians certainly understand and use the word ford to mean a low water crossing. We also use the word causeway to mean an embankment with a road on top of it. We sometimes also use the word causeway to mean a ford (particularly when it's usually dry), but that's not very important here, or particularly confusing. Secondly, since a causeway is just an embankment with a road on top, why not just map it that way? Either mark the causeway as an area, and draw a separate road, or draw a road and mark it embankment=yes. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] connection between 2 islands
2009/12/2 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: IMHO, the US English/Australian English issue here is spurious. Australians certainly understand and use the word ford to mean a low water crossing. I disagree, I've only ever heard them refered to as causeways and fords up until I started mapping was a make of car. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] connection between 2 islands
On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 1:30 PM, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: we have persistent trouble with the eurocentric view of the world projected by OSM so when they are arguing about various terms, its important to let them know that UK English ain't what we use Be grateful it's UK english and not US english :) There is no real solution, if you want to have human-understandable tags, but you want them to match your dialect. In a lot of ways, it's actually better when the word *doesn't* match your dialect, because then you focus on the OSM-specific definition of the word, rather than what you intuitively think the word should imply. For example, the cycleway debate is actually easier to understand because cycleway doesn't really mean anything in Australian English. If it was bike path, we'd have much stronger feelings about what is and isn't a bike path. so i prefer *not* using causeway, because it has two distinct meanings whereas embankment only has one Yes...but embankment != causeway. (A causeway is an embankment with a road...) Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] connection between 2 islands
On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: no no no a causeway need not have a road the devil's causeway in eire and all the rest of those examples This? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant%27s_Causeway Looks like natural=coastline to me! Again, are you not confusing the OSM tagging with the natural meaning of the word? Just like there places in England called ... Heath, but they're just parks, not heath. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Halcyon/MapCSS question
How do you make a style that depends on two attributes? Eg,
highway=residential *and* cycleway=lane?
I know that this works:
way[highway=residentia] { ... }
way[cycleway=lane] { ... }
And the two will be combined, if that makes sense. But how do you make the
style depend on that specific combination?
Steve
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[OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - causeway
I have totally renovated the 2007 proposal for a causeway tag and placed it in Proposal status. Comments are encouraged. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Causeway -- Randy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[talk-au] What to tag Rays Lane?
Was doing a survey around the outskirts of Thirlmere (a small town in NSW), and came across a difficult road to survey and tag. It's called Rays Lane http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-34.15725lon=150.56322zoom=16layers=B000FTF It has 6 gates, 3 of which are usually closed - to help control any cattle that may be roaming about. The middle gate http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/569088596 Is in-between where most of the properties / driveways are, and hasn't been opened in what looks like a few years. As a consequence, the asphalt road is now more of a moss + soil + fallen tree barricade. I've tagged that section of road that's overgrown as being: disused = yes Does anyone know of any better tags for this section of road? I've some (geotagged) photos to help http://rhubarb.us.to/rays_lane/ Also, what's the best thing to do when you've discovered that 2 ends of the same road have slightly different spellings on their physical road signs? I've tried to tag the road as best I can http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/45369647 Do you think it'd be best to speak with the council about this? Thanks in advance, Rhubarb - The guy that finds difficult roads to survey :P -- cam_...@fastmail.fm -- http://www.fastmail.fm - A fast, anti-spam email service. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] What to tag Rays Lane?
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 7:08 PM, cam_...@fastmail.fm wrote: Also, what's the best thing to do when you've discovered that 2 ends of the same road have slightly different spellings on their physical road signs? Heh, I've seen that in Canberra. There's a street called Bolderwood/Boldrewood St. Maps aren't consistent either. There is an alt_name tag. Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] What to tag Rays Lane?
2009/12/1 cam_...@fastmail.fm: I've tagged that section of road that's overgrown as being: disused = yes I would tag that highway=disused, since this is more consistent with railway=disused etc. Also, what's the best thing to do when you've discovered that 2 ends of the same road have slightly different spellings on their physical road signs? You can guess at which is correct, you can split the way and tag the ends with the different names, you can pester the council responsible to find out if the signs are correct and/or report the problem to them. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] What to tag Rays Lane?
cam_...@fastmail.fm wrote: Also, what's the best thing to do when you've discovered that 2 ends of the same road have slightly different spellings on their physical road signs? I've tried to tag the road as best I can http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/45369647 Do you think it'd be best to speak with the council about this? A google search for Scroggys Road comes up with nothing of that spelling, but positively identifies it as Scroggies Road according to council: http://www.wollondilly.nsw.gov.au/news/pages/19928.html I did a similar search to resolve the conflicting names Garryowen or Garry Owen Road: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/40542164 John ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] More NearMap Sydney imagery...
On 28/11/2009, at 19:04, Roy Wallace wrote: On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 4:40 PM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: And what about JOSM? So far I've just been using Potlatch because it just works. What do I have to do to get Nearmap going in JOSM? As Leon said, first go to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NearMap_PhotoMaps#JOSM. I would suggest using SlippyMap Plugin (Method 1, Using custom Slippymap plugin). It's fast, and it works. A few tips (these should be added to the wiki at some point...): * download http://map-data.bigtincan.com/data/slippymap-tested.jar * put the plugin in your josm plugin directory (google josm plugin directory). * download http://josm.openstreetmap.de/josm-tested.jar * in josm, turn on the slippymap plugin (Edit-Preferences, find the plugins tab then check the slippymap-tested checkbox) * have a play with the slippymap options (Edit-Preferences, find the slippymap tab - i'd recommend increasing the max zoom level, and turning on autoload etc. Let me know if that helps. If it helps, can you put it in the wiki for me? gtg kthxbai It seems to be even easier now with the 2555 build of JOSM. The built in slippymap plugin supports NearMap Australia as a built in option. Now I just need to compare to a few GPS traces before I start aligning roads around my suburb. Thanks, JT ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] What to tag Rays Lane?
Liz wrote: I never noticed that anyone had changed Garry Owen that I had put in - I know I'd tagged the road and ignored it from there. It's a small world :) John ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [Talk-br] Dúvida sobre o OSM
Fernando, uma coisa importante a se ressaltar é que a licença do OpenStreetMap é aberta, mas os dados utilizados na confecção dos mapas também devem ser. Por este motivo, não é possível utilizar dados do Google Maps nem de sites que utilizem o Google Maps para obter seus dados (por exemplo Wikimapia), pois os dados do Google Maps são de empresas de cartografia (Navteq e afins) que não disponibilizam seus dados livremente. Mesmo no caso do Yahoo!, temos um acordo para usarmos as imagens da satélite, mas não os mapas cartográficos. Espero que essa restrição não diminua a sua vontade de contribuir no OpenStreetMap. Para saber um pouco mais sobre o motivo dessa restrição, recomendo http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FAQ e principalmente http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Copyright_Easter_Eggs. []s 2009/11/30 Bráulio Bezerra da Silva brauliobeze...@gmail.com Há três modos de traçar ruas: - Fotos aéreas do Yahoo! - as fotos são boas em Duque de Caxias. Use o Potlatch (o editor em Flash acessado pelo menu Editar na parte de cima da página do site do OSM). Porém, as fotos não são atuais. - GPS - se você tiver GPS e quiser passear um pouco, pode passar pelas ruas e depois importar os traços GPS e basear-se neles para criar as ruas. - Importar dados de domínio público -- se a prefeitura tiver e disponibilizar o pessoal aqui que já fez importações pode ajudar. Para mapear Natal, por exemplo, até agora só usei basicamente as fotos do Yahoo!, o que eu lembro de cabeça e fotos de lugares encontrados pela Internet (no flickr, por exemplo). 2009/11/30 Fernando Caldas fernandoccal...@gmail.com Olá pessoal. Tenho alguns mapas feitos no googlemaps e gostaria de passar para o OSM. Ví que em Duque de Caxias não tem nenhuma rua delimitada. Por onde começo? Tenho alguns exemplos em http://www.caxiasdigital.com.br/mapas/caxias/ http://www.caxiasdigital.com.br/mapas/caxias/BairrosD1/ e este de transporte público http://www.caxiasdigital.com.br/mapas/stopbus/ Gostaria de saber se é possível fazer a mesma coisa no OSM. Fiz essa ferramenta para achar endereço clicando sobre o mapa, talvez seja útil para delimitação de bairros. O Brasil é um dos poucos países que funciona o reversegeocoder. Podem usar em suas próprias máquinas ou melhor, devem. É só baixar os arquivos index.html, os Js e o css para sua máquina. http://www.caxiasdigital.com.br/mapas/tools/achaendereco.html abç, Fernando Caldas www.caxiasdigital.com.br www.queonibuseupego.com.br Cel 21 8194-8648 ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br -- Arlindo Saraiva Pereira Jr. Bacharelando em Sistemas de Informação - UNIRIO - uniriotec.br Consultor de Software Livre da Uniriotec Consultoria - uniriotec.com Acadêmico: arlindo.pere...@uniriotec.br Profissional: arlindo.pere...@uniriotec.com Geral: cont...@arlindopereira.com Tel.: +5521 92504072 Jabber/Google Talk: nig...@nighto.net Skype: nighto_sumomo Chave pública: BD065DEC ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
Re: [Talk-br] Dúvida sobre rótula
Oi, Você fez de maneira correta. O problema é que a restrição de conversão é bastante complicada de fazer corretamente e eu não tenho certeza que os softwares de cálculo de rota atuais utilizam as restrições corretamente. Se não me engano o novo mapzen deveria facilitar a criação de restrições. Alguém já testou? Att, Ricardo 2009/12/1 Rodrigo Avila rodr...@avila.net.br Oi pessoal, bom dia. Estou com uma dúvida sobre como criar rótulas, e já faz um tempo. Dêem uma olhada, por favor, no link em [1]. Uma foto desta junção vocês podem ver em [2]. Até aí nada de mais. Mas na página do wiki em [3] não tem nenhum exemplo de como criar uma rótula cortada; apenas rótulas com ilha no centro. E eu estou tendo problemas com rótulas deste tipo na hora de fazer o roteamento. Vejam, em [4] como deveria ser a rota em uma via deste tipo. Mas tanto no Cloudmade Maps quanto no Garmin Mobile XT a rota fica desenhada como na figura [5]. Já pensei em retirar os nós que ligam a RS-287 e o círculo do roundabout, mas o KeepRight [6] reclama que ali tem uma via sobre a outra sem um nó de ligação. Também já tentei colocar naquele nó uma restrição de conversão, mas sem sucesso. E agora? Qual é a maneira correta de mapear este tipo de junção, preservando o roteamento? Grato pela atenção. [1] http://osm.org/go/M5t4FIy73-- [2] https://dl.dropbox.com/u/114881/screenshots/round-1.png [3] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:junction%3Droundabout [4] https://dl.dropbox.com/u/114881/screenshots/round-2.png [5] https://dl.dropbox.com/u/114881/screenshots/round-3.png [6] http://keepright.ipax.at/ -- Rodrigo de Avila ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
Re: [Talk-br] Digest Talk-br, volume 15, assunto 2
Bráulio e Arlindo, talvez não tenha sido muito claro em minhas idéias. O que cogitei foi o uso de ferramenta para correção de mapas, no caso desta http://www.caxiasdigital.com.br/mapas/tools/achaendereco.html Na realidade nem sei se serviria. No caso de transporte público e focos de dengue, pretendo apenas usar o OSM. Os dados seriam fornecidos pelas Secretarias correspondentes. A questão seria como despertar o interesse deles para o fornecimento destes dados e a atualização dos mesmos. Foi quando veio a idéia da ONG. Mas revisitando o site www.prefeituralivre.com.br , eles já lançaram o módulo de controle de vetores. Apenas não ví como funciona. Mas é uma excelente iniciativa. Na realidade é melhor começar a colocar a mão na massa e aprender com a ferramenta. Aprender a fazer uma rótula seria muito mais importante no momento. Abç, Fernando Caldas www.caxiasdigital.com.br www.queonibuseupego.com.br Cel 21 8194-8648 ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
Re: [Talk-br] Dúvida sobre rótula
Obrigado Flavio. Vou testar. -- Rodrigo de Avila Analista de Desenvolvimento +55 51 9733.3488 • rodr...@avila.net.br • www.avila.net.br 2009/12/1 Flavio Bello Fialho be...@cnpuv.embrapa.br Rodrigo, Coloquei as restrições nos dois pontos problemáticos da junção, conforme as orientações em: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:restriction Não sei se o software de roteamento reconhece isso, mas se não reconhecer é bug no software e não no mapa. Dê uma olhada se está tudo certo. Rodrigo Avila escreveu: Oi pessoal, bom dia. Estou com uma dúvida sobre como criar rótulas, e já faz um tempo. Dêem uma olhada, por favor, no link em [1]. Uma foto desta junção vocês podem ver em [2]. Até aí nada de mais. Mas na página do wiki em [3] não tem nenhum exemplo de como criar uma rótula cortada; apenas rótulas com ilha no centro. E eu estou tendo problemas com rótulas deste tipo na hora de fazer o roteamento. Vejam, em [4] como deveria ser a rota em uma via deste tipo. Mas tanto no Cloudmade Maps quanto no Garmin Mobile XT a rota fica desenhada como na figura [5]. Já pensei em retirar os nós que ligam a RS-287 e o círculo do roundabout, mas o KeepRight [6] reclama que ali tem uma via sobre a outra sem um nó de ligação. Também já tentei colocar naquele nó uma restrição de conversão, mas sem sucesso. E agora? Qual é a maneira correta de mapear este tipo de junção, preservando o roteamento? Grato pela atenção. [1] http://osm.org/go/M5t4FIy73-- [2] https://dl.dropbox.com/u/114881/screenshots/round-1.png [3] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:junction%3Droundabout [4] https://dl.dropbox.com/u/114881/screenshots/round-2.png [5] https://dl.dropbox.com/u/114881/screenshots/round-3.png [6] http://keepright.ipax.at/ ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
Re: [Talk-de] Navigationsprobleme an (Kleeblatt)-Autobahnkreuzen
Am 30. November 2009 13:24 schrieb marcus.wolsc...@googlemail.com: On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 18:04:06 +0100, Ana Luisa Paldos Garcia analuisapaldosgar...@googlemail.com wrote: Die Frage nun .. was tun: 1) davon ausgehen, dass das Problem bei der Navigationssoftware liegt und auch dort gelöst wird Nicht davon ausgehen sondern einen Bug-Report mit allen Details schreiben. 2) die parallelen Verbindungsstücke nur als motorway_link taggen ohne jegliche Autobahnzurodnung (ohne ref-tag), damit das Navi einen Abbiegevorgang erkennt. Entweder kein Ref-Tag oder das der Autobahn auf die der Link führt. Die parallel laufenden Stücke führen zu 2 Zielen: 1.: die Autobahn, zu der sie parallel laufen 2.: die Verbindung zur kreuzenden Autobahn, welche schon mit dem ref der kreuzenden Autobahn getaggt ist. 3) ... Mein Vorschlag: parallele Abbiegespuren überhaupt nur dann als eigenen way (=Fahrbahn) mappen, wenn auch wirklich baulich getrennt. Dann nur die ref der Zielautobahn verwenden, wenn es überhaupt ein eindeutiges Ziel gibt, also parallele, baulich getrennte Abbiegespuren mit der ref der Stammautobahn versehen. Zu guter letzt verstehe ich das Problem nicht so ganz, ich erhalte mit meinen Karten immer rechts halten auf ... - Meldungen an diesen Stellen. In mkgmap gibt es aber auch eine Funktion, die das Navi glauben lässt, der Abbiegewinkel sei größer, was solche Probleme beheben soll - such mal nach arc heading in der mkgmap-dev Liste. Gruß, Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Datenherkunft sinnvoll angeben
Liebe Kenner der Materie, Nachdem meine Anfrage nun seit Monaten Kreise zieht, habe ich mal den Betreff geändert und ein konkretes Ziel formuliert: *Wie kann ein Anwender die Datenherkunft sinnvoll angeben* Mit sinnvoll meine ich: - als Werbung für OSM - informativ - verständlich - unserer (aktuellen) Lizenz entsprechend Die Antworten sollten in einer Wiki-Seite *Datenherkunft richtig angeben* konkret, beispielhaft, bildlich und nachvollziehbar beschrieben sein. Damit wir bei einer Anfrage den Anwender darauf hinweisen können und er dort eindeutig erfährt, was er in welchem Fall konkret tun muss. Diese Wikiseite sollte möglichst viele Anwendungsfälle abdecken. Zumindest die wichtigsten und häufigsten 80..90%. Ich hatte vor drei Monaten mal einen laienhaften Entwurf gemacht, wie so etwas aussehen könnte. Da aber die Lizenzdiskussion damals so komplex und für mich verwirrend war und ich kein Jurist bin, hatte ich ihn nicht auf die Liste gestellt. Ich füge es unten mal an - vielleicht hilft es ja als Grundlage für: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/de:Datenherkunft_richtig_angeben Gruss, Markus - - - - Liebe Juristen, da wir ja eine freie Weltkarte erstellen, gehe ich immer davon aus, dass diese genau das ist was wir sagen, nämlich *frei*. Dass also jede/r unsere Arbeit nutzen darf, wenn er bei seiner Arbeit darauf hinweist, dass er die Daten bzw. Karten von uns hat. Da ich juristische Formulierungen oft nur sehr schwer bis nicht verstehe, würde es mir (und anderen) helfen, wenn ich im Wiki entsprechende Fallbeispiele finden könnte, aus denen ich auch Tendenzen für weitere Fälle ableiten kann. Beispiele für solche Anwendungsfälle: _Screenshot und Permalink zur Karte_ Jeder darf aus der OSM-Webite einen Screenshot von der Karte machen, diesen als Bild auf seine Website stellen, und das Bild direkt mit einem Permalink auf die OSM-Karte verlinken. In diesem Fall braucht er keine weiteren Angaben machen, denn der Permalik führt automatisch und direkt zu OSM und damit zu allen relevanten Lizenz-Angaben. Gern gesehen sind jedoch Bildüberschiften wie: - Standort in Openstreetmap - Anfahrt mit Openstreetmap - unser Urlaubsort in Openstreetmap oder ähnlich. _Selbst erfasste Daten an Dritte weitergeben_ Daten die ich selbst erfasst habe, darf ich Dritten jederzeit zur beliebigen Nutzung weitergeben. Wenn ich beispielsweise feststelle, dass im Strassenverzeichnis einer Gemeinde ein anderer Name steht als auf dem Strassenschild, dann darf ich das der Gemeinde sagen. Ich kann mich auch mit anderen in einer (virtuellen) Gruppe zusammentun, um solche Unsgereimtheiten gemeinsam aufzuspüren und sie Dritten zu melden. _Von Dritten zur Überprüfung freigegebene Daten nutzen_ Jeder darf solche Daten im Rahmen deren Lizenzvereinbarung frei nutzen. Beispielsweise darf man ein Strassenverzeichnis der Gemeinde, das diese zur Verfügung stellt, um damit die Strassenschilder zu überprüfen, dafür nutzen. Man darf Unstimmigkeiten zwischen OSM-Daten, Strassenschild und Strassenverzeichnis abgleichen und darf das Ergebnis in OSM eintragen. Auch die Gemeinde darf das Ergebnis in ihr Strassenverzeichnis eintragen und ihr Strassenschild ggf. austauschen. Man kann sich auch mit anderen in einer (virtuellen) Gruppe zusammentun, um solche Unsgereimtheiten gemeinsam aufzuspüren und sie Dritten zu melden. _Slippymap auf Website einbinden_ Jeder darf die OSM-Karte als Slippymap in seine Website einbinden. In diesem Fall braucht er keine weiteren Angaben machen, denn diese sind in der Slippymap bereits enthalten und führen automatisch und direkt zu allen relevanten Lizenz-Angaben. _Kartenausschnitt verbreiten_ Jeder darf beliebige Kartenausschnitte in Papierform oder elektronisch nutzen und verbreiten, auch kommerziell. In diesem Fall genügt, wenn er den Begriff Openstreetmap verwendet und diesen direkt zu OSM verlinkt. Oder alternativ, wenn er eine der folgenden Formulierungen verwendet: - Karte von Openstreetmap.org - Geo-Daten von Openstreetmap.org _OSM-Karte für eigene Anwendungen nutzen_ Jeder darf die OSM-Karte (Mapnik, Osmarender, etc) als Basiskarte nutzen, um damit eigene Anwendungen zu erstellen. In diesem Fall genügt, wenn er auf jeder seiner Anwendungen eine der folgenden Formulierungen verwendet und diese direkt zu OSM verlinkt: - Karte von Openstreetmap.org - Basiskarte von Openstreetmap.org - Geo-Daten von Openstreetmap.org _HowTo_ Idealerweise sind solche Anwendungsbeipiele so formuliert, dass der Anwender ihnen möglichst einfach entnehmen kann, was genau er in seinem Anwendungsfall tun muss, um unsere Geschäftsbedingungen einzuhalten. Erforderlichenfalls mit dem Angebot, bei unserer Kunden-Arbeitsgruppe nachzufragen. Gibt es sowas schon? also eine Stelle, wo der Webmaster einer kleinen Gemeinde nachfragen kann? Ich freue mich über jeden, der OSM auf seiner Website nutzt und über jede Zeitung, die ihren Artikel mit OSM illustriert! Gruss, Markus
Re: [Talk-de] Mapnik - living streets
Hallo, Am Dienstag 01 Dezember 2009 03:45:58 schrieb Mirko Küster: Am Dienstag 01 Dezember 2009 03:11 schrieb Wolfgang: Wer interpretiert da wo und wie? Ist mir noch nirgends untergekommen das da einer Breite über alles eingetragen hätte, schon garnicht absurderweise zwischen Grundstücksgrenzen. Straßenbreiten, Regelquerschnitte etc. beziehen sich immer auf die Fahrbahn und nicht auf straßenbegleitende Maßnahmen. Das du das so machst, kann ja sein, aber 3 Mapper, 5 Meinungen... In diesem Zusammenhang verweise ich auf den Thread vom 20.06.2009. Seitdem mappe ich Breite nur noch, wenn es eindeutig ist: Fluss, Radweg, Fussweg, Track. Außerhalb von Ortschaften kann schonmal keiner igendetwas abweichendes erfassen, zumindestens da kann es ausnahmslos nur die Fahnbahn betreffen. Unter der Voraussetzung, dass da nicht jemand den straßenbegleitenden Rad/Fußweg mit bicycle=track mappt und mitrechnet, wie du selbst weiter unten schreibst, hast du recht... Die Breite einer Straße ergibt sich da eher aus der Anzahl der Fahrspuren. Wie das? Das ist wie messen mit dem Hufeisen oder Salami in die Turnhalle werfen. Aus der Anzahl der Fahrspuren kann man nichtmal ansatzweise irgendwas zur Breite ableiten. Alte Straßen wurden so gebaut wie Platz war, später gab es zwar genormte Regelquerschnitte, nur die änderten sich entsprechend nach Fortschritt der Technik und wachsenden Ansprüchen. Wenn ich lanes eintrage, sind die markiert. Ein markierter Fahrstreifen muss innerorts mindestens 2,50m messen. Mehr als 2,80 wird niemand bauen, schon aus Kostengründen. Da gibt es als Unsicherheit nur noch ein paar ältere Straßen, wo 1,5 Fahrspuren für jede Richtung existieren mit B~ 3,5 - 4,5 m pro Fahrspur, Pkw fahren dort teilweise nebeneinander 4-spurig. = Breite bei 2 Spuren im Gegenverkehr: 5 - 9 m = Breite bei 4 Spuren: 10 - 11,20 m = Breite bei 6 Spuren: 15 - 16,80 m Bei den Landesstraßen habe ich hier z.B. die Bandbreite von 4,5 bis 7 m Fahrbahnbreite. Manchmal wirds hinterm Ortschild mal um ein bis zwei Meter breiter. Eine aktuell gebaute Umgehung, auch Landesstraße, wird gerade nach neuer Norm gebaut und hat 8 m. Hat alles zwei Fahrspuren, unterscheidet sich aber erheblich. Da wäre selbst eine angebliche Messung inklusive Fußweg noch exakter als eine Milchmädchenrechnung über Fahrspuren. Außerorts reicht die Bandbreite bei _markierten_ Fahrstreifen 5,5 - 7 m, bei neueren Straßen auch 8m. Die Breite von Autobahnen ist genauer genormt, hier unterscheidet sich nur noch mit/ohne Standspur. Aufgrund ständigem Gewerkel an den Autobahnen durch den EU-LKWahnsinn setzen sich hier aktuelle Standards recht zügig durch. Ergebnis: Innerorts Ungenauigkeit bei 1 Spur/Richtung ca 4 m 2 Spuren/R 1,20 m, 3 Spuren/R 1,80 m Außerorts 1 Spur/R 2,50 m, mehr Spuren ähnlich innerorts. Bei Mitmessung der straßenbegleitenden Maßnahmen: Fußweg 3 Platten parallel a 0,50 = 1,50 m pro Seite, dazu 1 m Abstand zum Radweg, dazu Radweg 1 m = 3,50 pro Seite, insgesamt 7 m. Kommt noch jemand auf die Idee, bis zum Gartenzaun zu messen, kann da noch 1 m dazukommen. Eine Unsicherheit von 8 m toppt da sogar noch unsere Mapping-Genauigkeit, die im Schnit bei ca 5 m liegen dürfte. Man sollte die Rechenschärfe von Milchmädchen nicht unterschätzen :-) Gruß, Wolfgang ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Navigationsprobleme an (Kleeblatt)-Autobahnkreuzen
On Tue, 1 Dec 2009 09:39:44 +0100, Martin Simon grenzde...@gmail.com wrote: 2) die parallelen Verbindungsstücke nur als motorway_link taggen ohne jegliche Autobahnzurodnung (ohne ref-tag), damit das Navi einen Abbiegevorgang erkennt. Entweder kein Ref-Tag oder das der Autobahn auf die der Link führt. Die parallel laufenden Stücke führen zu 2 Zielen: 1.: die Autobahn, zu der sie parallel laufen 2.: die Verbindung zur kreuzenden Autobahn, welche schon mit dem ref der kreuzenden Autobahn getaggt ist. Stimmt*grübel*. Das erste Stück führt aus der Autobahn heraus = Ref der anderen Autobahn. Das mittlere Stück führt in die Gegenrichtung der anderen Autobahn und von der Hin-Richtung der anderen in die eigene Autobahn = kein Ref Tag, da es zu beiden führt Das letzte Stück führt zurück auf die eigene Autobahn = Ref der aktuellen Autobahn auf diese Weise hat die Ausfahrt immer die Ref der Autobahn auf die man fährt. Diese ist unterschiedlich zur aktuellen und somit immer ein eindeutig erkennbarer Abbiege-Vorgang. Sogar das rechts halten auf wärend man schon in der Ausfahrt ist und die zweite Ausfahrt nehmen muss hat hierbei eine Änderung der Ref von NULL in die der Ziel-Autobahn was bei einfachen Algorithmen zu Jetzt rechts halten auf Autoahn2 führt. Marcus ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Datenherkunft sinnvoll angeben
Hallo, Markus wrote: *Wie kann ein Anwender die Datenherkunft sinnvoll angeben* Im englischen FAQ gibt es dazu einen Eintrag: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Legal_FAQ#I_would_like_to_use_OpenStreetMap_maps._How_should_I_credit_you.3F Die deutsche Version dieser Seite (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Legal_FAQ) ist leider etwas komplett anderes und hat auch diesen Abschnitt nicht. Bye Frederik ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Navigationsprobleme an (Kleeblatt)-Autobahnkreuzen
Martin Simon schrieb: Zu guter letzt verstehe ich das Problem nicht so ganz, ich erhalte mit meinen Karten immer rechts halten auf ... - Meldungen an diesen Stellen. In mkgmap gibt es aber auch eine Funktion, die das Navi glauben lässt, der Abbiegewinkel sei größer, was solche Probleme beheben soll - such mal nach arc heading in der mkgmap-dev Liste. Hängt sicher auch davon ab, ob die jeweilige Karte mit den korrekten Zuordnungen zu den entsprechenden Garmin-Road-Types für Abbiegespuren arbeitet. Chris ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Datenherkunft sinnvoll angeben
Am 1. Dezember 2009 10:24 schrieb Markus liste12a4...@gmx.de: Beispiele für solche Anwendungsfälle: _Screenshot und Permalink zur Karte_ Jeder darf aus der OSM-Webite einen Screenshot von der Karte machen, diesen als Bild auf seine Website stellen, und das Bild direkt mit einem Permalink auf die OSM-Karte verlinken. In diesem Fall braucht er keine weiteren Angaben machen, denn der Permalik führt automatisch und direkt zu OSM und damit zu allen relevanten Lizenz-Angaben. das ist m.E. falsch, da muss ein Hinweis hin: Karte Openstreetmap, Lizenz cc-by-sa 2.0 _Selbst erfasste Daten an Dritte weitergeben_ Daten die ich selbst erfasst habe, darf ich Dritten jederzeit zur beliebigen Nutzung weitergeben. Wenn ich beispielsweise feststelle, dass im Strassenverzeichnis einer Gemeinde ein anderer Name steht als auf dem Strassenschild, dann darf ich das der Gemeinde sagen. Ich kann mich auch mit anderen in einer (virtuellen) Gruppe zusammentun, um solche Unsgereimtheiten gemeinsam aufzuspüren und sie Dritten zu melden. klar, was Dir gehört, damit kannst Du machen was Du willst. _Von Dritten zur Überprüfung freigegebene Daten nutzen_ Jeder darf solche Daten im Rahmen deren Lizenzvereinbarung frei nutzen. auch klar, aber hilft wenig, da man ja die Lizenzvereinbarung kennen und verstehen muss. _Slippymap auf Website einbinden_ Jeder darf die OSM-Karte als Slippymap in seine Website einbinden. solange man nur mäßigen Traffik hat, ansonsten muss man seine eigenen Tiles rendern. In diesem Fall braucht er keine weiteren Angaben machen, denn diese sind in der Slippymap bereits enthalten und führen automatisch und direkt zu allen relevanten Lizenz-Angaben. automatisch sind die nicht drin, man muss darauf achten, dass sie dort drin sind. _Kartenausschnitt verbreiten_ Jeder darf beliebige Kartenausschnitte in Papierform oder elektronisch nutzen und verbreiten, auch kommerziell. In diesem Fall genügt, wenn er den Begriff Openstreetmap verwendet und diesen direkt zu OSM verlinkt. nein, cc-by-sa2.0 muss auch dabei stehen _OSM-Karte für eigene Anwendungen nutzen_ Jeder darf die OSM-Karte (Mapnik, Osmarender, etc) als Basiskarte nutzen, um damit eigene Anwendungen zu erstellen. s.o., solange man nicht übernmäßig die Server strapaziert In diesem Fall genügt, wenn er auf jeder seiner Anwendungen eine der folgenden Formulierungen verwendet und diese direkt zu OSM verlinkt: +cc-by-sa2.0 (s.o.) Ich freue mich über jeden, der OSM auf seiner Website nutzt und über jede Zeitung, die ihren Artikel mit OSM illustriert! ich auch. Im Wiki steht auch bereits jetzt klar, welchen Hinweis man dazupacken muss. Klar, wenn jemand unsere Daten nutzt und da erstmal noch ein paar Fehler in der Attributierung sind, ist das kein Weltuntergang. Die ersten paar Schreiben sollten höflich formuliert und ohne weitere Androhungen darauf hinweisen. Wenn jemand ein Druckwerk erstellt, ist die Lage schon etwas komplizierter, weil man da ja weniger problemlos als im Web nachbessern kann. Daher ist man als Ersteller aber m.E. auch mehr in der Bringschuld, sich über die Lizenz zu informieren. Ist ja wirklich nicht allzu kompliziert... Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Datenherkunft sinnvoll angeben
Am Di Dezember 1 2009 glaubte Markus zu wissen: Ich füge es unten mal an - vielleicht hilft es ja als Grundlage für: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/de:Datenherkunft_richtig_angeben Ich hab mal die Diskussion eröffnet: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE_talk:Datenherkunft_richtig_angeben Paßt das so? Oder hätt ich das anders machen sollen? flo -- tadaaa! Ladies und Gentlepfleger, ich präsentiere Ihnen den 1.000sten Eintrag in meinem dag°-Signaturfile! /tadaaa! [Hajo Pflueger in dag°] ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Navigationsprobleme an (Kleeblatt)-Autobahnkreuzen
Hallo Marcus. Am Dienstag 01 Dezember 2009 10:59:40 schrieb marcus.wolsc...@googlemail.com: Das erste Stück führt aus der Autobahn heraus = Ref der anderen Autobahn. Das mittlere Stück führt in die Gegenrichtung der anderen Autobahn und von der Hin-Richtung der anderen in die eigene Autobahn = kein Ref Tag, da es zu beiden führt Das letzte Stück führt zurück auf die eigene Autobahn = Ref der aktuellen Autobahn auf diese Weise hat die Ausfahrt immer die Ref der Autobahn auf die man fährt. Diese ist unterschiedlich zur aktuellen und somit immer ein eindeutig erkennbarer Abbiege-Vorgang. Oder man macht es so wie es das Garmin in der Praxis macht: Erkenne dass _link eine Rampe ist und schaue in der eigenen Routen-Planung weiter wann die nächste Nicht-Rampe kommt und gebe deren Bezeichnung aus. Dazu muss man keine Daten entstellen oder vergewaltigen sondern löst das Dilemma ganz elegant beim Routing. Voraussetzung dafür dass das funktioniert ist die Verwendung eines Rampe- Datentyps beim Garmin. Die ersten Routingfähigen mkgmap-Versionen hatten das nicht richtig gemacht, daher hat das da nicht funktioniert. Wer sich damals einen eigenen Stil abgeleitet hat, sollte die Änderungen selbst einbauen, da diese Abbildung nur im Stil gemacht wird. Gruß, Bernd -- Als ich 14 Jahre alt war, war mein Vater für mich so dumm, dass ich ihn kaum ertragen konnte. Aber als ich 21 wurde, war ich doch erstaunt, wieviel der alte Mann in den sieben Jahren dazugelernt hatte. (Mark Twain) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Datenherkunft sinnvoll angeben
Am Dienstag 01 Dezember 2009 11:39:14 schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer: Im Wiki steht auch bereits jetzt klar, welchen Hinweis man dazupacken muss Hast du für diese sehr gewagte Behauptung einen Beweis? Ich habe selbst nichts gefunden und Frederik weist auch darauf hin, dass dies nur auf der englischen Legal_FAQ steht und wenn man Diese Seite auf ... Deutsch liest, findet man nichts. Gruß, Bernd -- Spontaneität muß wohlüberlegt sein. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Datenherkunft sinnvoll angeben
Am Di Dezember 1 2009 glaubte Martin Koppenhoefer zu wissen: Vorneweg: Sorry, aber deine Art zu quoten ist furchtbar. Nimm es mir nicht übel, aber bei deinen mails finde ich einiges erst, wenn ich mit der mail vergleiche, auf die du geantwortet hast. Wenn du deinen Text schreibst, acht doch bitte darauf, daß da kein oder davor steht. Das erleichtert die Lesbarkeit doch sehr und spart dem Leser eine Menge Zeit. Danke. Am 1. Dezember 2009 10:24 schrieb Markus liste12a4...@gmx.de: Beispiele für solche Anwendungsfälle: _Screenshot und Permalink zur Karte_ Jeder darf aus der OSM-Webite einen Screenshot von der Karte machen, diesen als Bild auf seine Website stellen, und das Bild direkt mit einem Permalink auf die OSM-Karte verlinken. In diesem Fall braucht er keine weiteren Angaben machen, denn der Permalik führt automatisch und direkt zu OSM und damit zu allen relevanten Lizenz-Angaben. das ist m.E. falsch, da muss ein Hinweis hin: Karte Openstreetmap, Lizenz cc-by-sa 2.0 s.u. _Kartenausschnitt verbreiten_ Jeder darf beliebige Kartenausschnitte in Papierform oder elektronisch nutzen und verbreiten, auch kommerziell. In diesem Fall genügt, wenn er den Begriff Openstreetmap verwendet und diesen direkt zu OSM verlinkt. nein, cc-by-sa2.0 muss auch dabei stehen s.u. In diesem Fall genügt, wenn er auf jeder seiner Anwendungen eine der folgenden Formulierungen verwendet und diese direkt zu OSM verlinkt: +cc-by-sa2.0 (s.o.) Was passiert dann, wenn sich die Lizenz ändert? Dann müßten z.B. zig Seiten im Internet angepaßt werden. Da sind nachher zig verschiedene Versionen im Umlauf, von denen wenn überhaupt eine stimmt. Einen Link in der Art a href=http://openstreetmap.org/lizenz;Lizenz/a der auf die aktuelle Lizenz verweist, halte ich für sinnvoller. Gerade Betreiber privater Seiten werden nicht immer wieder nachsehen, ob sie noch die richtige Lizenz angeben. Wenn die mehrmals angemault werden, daß sie die falsche Lizenz angeben, ignorieren die das entweder Die wissen auch nicht was sie wollen oder nehmen halt einen anderen Dienst. Und es wird ja gerade an einer neuen Lizenz gewerkelt, das Thema dürfte also eh bald hochkommen. flo -- Brigitte Seebacher-Brandt imponiert mir, wie engagiert die für die Wiederein- führung der Witwenverbrennung kämpft. Oder Petra Kelly, das ist eine Lebensleistung: Einen pazifistisch gewordenen General wieder zur Waffe greifen zu lassen. [Volker Pispers] ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
