Re: [Talk-GB] Updated GB cycle lanes map
On 2 October 2012 09:55, Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@gmail.comwrote: I've updated my map of GB cycle lanes (and quiet cycle routes). Rendered using Geofabrik/Osmosis/Maperitive. Now with OdbL data... http://www.transportparadise.co.uk/DualCycleNetworkMap/ It looks to me like there's quite a lot of cycle lanes missing. A lot of cycle lane data is available from DfT for review and copying across, but doesn't appear to have made it's way into OSM yet: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/England_Cycling_Data_project (and yes this is a bit complicated, but it's quite easy once you get going) A major part of the update to the cycle lane map has been identifying urban main roads based on the presence of residential side roads. This was done using a python algorithm in Maperitive. The results look pretty accurate (not many false positives). In good share-alike style, I can do three things with the output: 1) put the output back in the database, by using existing keys (eg maxspeed=30 mph + maxspeed:source=inferred from presence of residential side streets) 2) put the output back in the database, using new keys (eg maxspeed:inferred=30 mph + maxspeed:inferred:source = presence of residential side streets) 3) publish the algorithm It doesn't make much difference to me, but clearly people might find the data useful. So I'm open to views/suggestions. Richard ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb Looking at it RSN18 (Medway) is missing on http://www.transportparadise.co.uk/DualCycleNetworkMap/ however its on OSM and viewable via Cycle Map on the main osm site Peter. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] London Underground roundel
On 25 March 2010 15:03, Tom Chance t...@acrewoods.net wrote: On 25 March 2010 14:50, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Tom Chance wrote: We only do it for public services, That is going to be one hell of a definition problem. Isn't London Underground run by some kind of public-private-whatever? And you'll certainly have to exclude DLR then as they are operated by a private company. Oh wait, they are *owned* by TfL so maybe they would qualify... ;-) No, it should very simple. TfL contract different services out but they remain public services managed and financed by TfL. We might also use the National Rail symbol for our train stations, but not FirstGroup, National Express, etc. for individual services. We wouldn't use a Thames Water logo for their facilities, nor would we use a particular cab company's logo for cab ranks. I don't think it should be a problem, The standard TFL logo (Red Circle with a Blue Line Through the middle) means any part of London Public Transport. (That means Underground, Overground, TFL, Buses, Croydon Trams, DLR, and I even think we could use it to signify any station/stop where an Oyster/Travel Card can be used. However we may also want to use the Good Old standard British Rail Sideways Z for that. (if we can get permission) However I think we need to use something standard that is the same world wide on our main maps so Underground in Washington DC looks the same as Paris, London, or Moscow. Peter. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] National Cycle Network - filling the gaps
On 8 March 2010 14:46, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: Gregory wrote: On 8 March 2010 02:23, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: - *To complete the C2C*: Forest section near Keswick - the one gap in our coverage of the NCN's most popular route! The end of the mapped route is marked on the ground by some blood and ambulance track marks. That sounds awfully familiar. My C2C attempt ended in a similar heap of blood and gristle at the bottom of a hill where I'd spotted the signpost too late. One of the reasons to improve OSM's NCN coverage is that future cyclists can be warned in good time by the map on their Garmin, rather than having to squint for a little blue sign. :) cheers Richard Not a lot of use when the route goes through yet another gap that's not big enough for your bike, and you have to leap off, and go through sideways, holding your bike over you head yet again, (This happens several times on NCN1 in Medway (and I'm not that fat really!) and that's when the route has not yet again taken some scenic diversion yet again around some bush No help from any Garmin is going to help you follow and actual get along NCN1 (at about this point you give up and cycle along the A2 (Which in this case has quite a nice cycle track along the side.) Peter. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] National Cycle Network - filling the gaps
On 8 March 2010 15:37, Gregory Williams gregory.willi...@purplegeodesoftware.co.uk wrote: -Original Message- From: talk-gb-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-gb- boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Peter Childs Sent: 8 March 2010 15:24 To: Richard Fairhurst Cc: talk-gb OSM List (E-mail) Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] National Cycle Network - filling the gaps On 8 March 2010 14:46, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: Gregory wrote: On 8 March 2010 02:23, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: - *To complete the C2C*: Forest section near Keswick - the one gap in our coverage of the NCN's most popular route! The end of the mapped route is marked on the ground by some blood and ambulance track marks. That sounds awfully familiar. My C2C attempt ended in a similar heap of blood and gristle at the bottom of a hill where I'd spotted the signpost too late. One of the reasons to improve OSM's NCN coverage is that future cyclists can be warned in good time by the map on their Garmin, rather than having to squint for a little blue sign. :) cheers Richard Not a lot of use when the route goes through yet another gap that's not big enough for your bike, and you have to leap off, and go through sideways, holding your bike over you head yet again, (This happens several times on NCN1 in Medway (and I'm not that fat really!) and that's when the route has not yet again taken some scenic diversion yet again around some bush No help from any Garmin is going to help you follow and actual get along NCN1 (at about this point you give up and cycle along the A2 (Which in this case has quite a nice cycle track along the side.) Are you sure that you're following the official NCR1 through Medway, Peter? Admittedly there are a few motorcycle inhibitors, but I've been able to take a bike loaded with four panniers through there quite easily. I assume that you turn your handlebars 45 degrees to pass through the motorcycle inhibitors? (Oh, and if you're riding a tandem then I know that that's an exception to the rule...). Gregory Yes I could fit the bike through by turning the handle bars by 45 but I still had to go through side on and I'm not that wide at the shoulders. I also kept losing it and had to go back and play hunt the small blue sign Peter. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] HOT ready? Concepción, Chile eart hquake
On the subject of Earth Quakes, Do we have the plate / fault boundaries tagged, and can we get them rendered, It might help see exactly what's going on geographically speaking Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] Looking for places to map?
On 25 February 2010 03:30, Peter Childs pchi...@bcs.org wrote: On 24 February 2010 01:16, Peter Reed peter.r...@aligre.co.uk wrote: Steve, It needn't be parishes. For population data it looks as though I can get down to ward level with up-to-date numbers from ONS. http://www.statistics.gov.uk/statbase/Product.asp?vlnk=13893 Looking at the ONS lists there are about 9,000 wards in England (and about 10,000 parishes). It's going to take a while to trace them all! More importantly it seems to me that this will only work when the boundaries are meaningful to the community at large. I used the term settlement in that sense, as a loose catchall for any city, town, village, or suburb that was meaningful. The Opencyclemap locations seem to take a similar approach, and seemed like a good starting point. As an example, from the ONS lists, in Medway the wards are: Chatham Central Cuxton and Halling Gillingham North Gillingham South Hempstead and Wigmore Lordswood and Capstone Luton and Wayfield Peninsula Princes Park Rainham Central Rainham North Rainham South River Rochester East Rochester South and Horsted Rochester West Strood North Strood Rural Strood South Twydall Walderslade Watling I don't know the Medway area, so I'm not sure how these wards translate into settlements - but my guess from the names is that Gillingham, Rainham, Rochester and Strood are settlements that are subdivided into smaller wards. Cuxton, Halling, Lordswood and so on look like smaller settlements that have been combined into wards, and some of the others (Peninsula, River) might not correspond to a settlement or suburb of a settlement that people would recognise. That seems to be the kind of mix we have round here. You can say that again. says he who lives in Medway, I live in Wainscott, a small village on the edge of Strood, The area is known as Frinsbury Extra, an area not on your list Taking Strood as an example. This list gives Strood North, Rural, and South, Most of us locals would translate that to, South - Historically Strood Proper. Darnley Road Estate (South, anything south of the A2) North - Frinsbury (anything north of the A2) Rural, Who knows, Probably another name for Frinsbury Extra. Which starts is the bit north of Bill Street/Cooling Road(B2000) but within the A289 Ring Road, Give or take. Peninsula at a guess is Hoo, anything outside the A289 Ring Road. on the Grain Peninsula. Peter. In other words, there isn't always a ward boundary that corresponds to a recognisable settlement, but where there is a ward (or district council boundary) that corresponds to a recognisable settlement I can use it to classify the apparent level of coverage on the map. I don't think we want to start inventing our own system of boundaries, so I'm not quite sure where that leaves us elsewhere. At the moment the best I can suggest is to do what makes sense locally with the boundaries that are available. On the next round of data crunching I'll do my best to make use of all the admin boundaries in the map that I am able to match up with population figures. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb Thinking about this probably the best way to collect this data is to map who has there rubbish collected on which day of the week and map that. Round here Recycling is collected Fortnightly and Brown waste the other week, and different areas are done on different days of the week. Better still we could map the rubbish collection routes and tag that as well. But I'm not sure I've got the time to rush around every day at 7am to see who has their rubbish out. Peter. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Change Set Error: 3552319
On 21 February 2010 07:14, WessexMario wessexmario-...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: If the whole changeset was removed it might erase some correct mapping that he did. Isn't the principle supposed to be: It's better to lave less known correct mapping, than lots of mapping some of which is complete rubbish. If there are very, and many, obvious errors, then it's better to revert the changeset immediately, than to leave it until someone else comes along and corrects it, or adds new and correct information, which then complicates any reversion of rubbish, and also means you have to have low confidence in anything else mapped in that changeset. No, far better to revert it, and if there were (in my opinion unlikely) some good mapping in there, then it can always be re-entered correctly afterwards. If he has to reenter the data then he, (like everyone) will learn from his mistakes, but let's ensure that only goof information is maintained. Mario ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb Ok, I'm a local I live in Wainscott, so yes I do have Expert Local Knowledge, (I've also mapped most of Hoo.) There has been some very very good work on Strood in the last few weeks by a new mapper, which I was trying to find time to map but had not got around to yet. Its so good I'm now thinking of promoting Medway off the mapping priorities. However in this case the data seamed Random badly tagged ways and nodes that made little sence, together with incorrect data., Coupled with no GPS tracks, and a user who only ever worked for half an hour over a month ago. I know that in previous cases (such as liam123) we have had these problems and correcting the data is generally not the right way forward, and that in these cases reversion is often a better avenue to try and follow. But what is the best way to deal with this continuing issue. I don't mean to get at this user as I suspect he did not realise the data was going to go live. I'm thinking we need to document a standard procedure to deal with this, when the person who notices the problem may not be the right person to be capable of correcting it, or the area involved is not an area they know and the area needs flagging for checking by a local. (which is not true in this case) With established mappers its easy to just email the mapper but with infrequent random new mapper, this need to be worded more carefully, possibly with a standard template. Just a trying to help Peter. Peter. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] Should roads be connected to all types of crossing ways?
On 15 February 2010 12:11, MP singular...@gmail.com wrote: On 15/02/2010, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 9:54 PM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: Your router example still works. Even if you and I aren't going to turn left at highway=railway; railway=narrow_gauge we had best give way to traffic there. No, routing is a bad example. We have seen recently on this list someone saying that he did not want to put a node because it was not allowed to turn left or turn right for his car at one intersection. Think more topology than Router. I prefer Tom's definition. Maybe not for car, but people on foot following that road can turn left or right (which would be impossible if one of the roads would be in tunnel or on bridge), so even in this case the roads should be connected. Martin Except, Sometimes there are fences, around tunnels and bridges that can make it very difficult to cross the bridge and then walk along the road. And sometimes, its just not aloud, (ie a Motorway) Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Why doesn't OSM implement a simple measure to protectit's users and passwords?
2009/12/22 John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com: There also does not appear to be any provision on the OSM web site for changing to a new password, which is something that one should do occasionally. At least, if there is a way to do so, I haven't found it. Select your name at the top, (Its a link) Then My Settings Change you password and save changes. Peter. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria -Original Message- From: John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 00:11:43 To: Talk Openstreetmaptalk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk] Why doesn't OSM implement a simple measure to protect it's users and passwords? When does anyone plan to use SSL to protect passwords and users on OSM? I noticed the other day about how JOSM puts this in it's MOTD: Your username and password are sent to the server unencrypted. If you do not like this, do not upload. While I'm aware that this is occurring, many others may not and may be put off with statements like the above. While removing that statement from JOSM might fix some of the image problems, it doesn't do anything for real security. There has even been a bug on this issue for 3 years! http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/275 This is even more concerning when you add into the mix the UK government is trying to record globs and globs of additional information on data travelling across internet links in the UK, among other things. http://go.theregister.com/feed/www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/22/mobile_imp/ As has been pointed out on the trac ticket, OSM should be eligible for a free cert from godaddy, then there is ideological reasons for supporting other options like CAcert, just like many support OSM for ideological reasons rather than Google. I realise there is some APIs floating about that use alternative authentication schemes, but the majority of users will be sending their passwords (and everything else for that matter) clear text over the internet for all and sundry to snoop on. Is it really reasonable to not offer SSL encryption? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Ditches
2009/12/15 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: 2009/12/15 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: IMHO, tagging layer=1 bridge=yes for a road going over water is an example of a hack, and tagging for the renderer. The information bridge=1 is more than enough to render with, so layer=1 can *only* be interpreted as giving a renderer a crutch. Without layer information you'd be guessing if the road goes over the water or the water goes over the road, or the water and road are at the same level. You could come up with sane defaults, but that's making assumptions rather than tagging explicitly so you know beyond a reasonable doubt. If you have a bridge or a tunnel you don't need a layer tag a bridge infers it goes over a tunnel that it goes over If there is neither a tunnel, or a bridge and no layer either then it must be a ford. If you mark bridge=yes, layer=1 you are repeating your self. which is where problems start, see database normalisation. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Ditches
2009/12/15 Anthony o...@inbox.org: On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 11:01 AM, Chris Hill o...@raggedred.net wrote: Steve Bennett wrote: Alight, I've had enough of this. You've had enough of it!!! After nearly fifty emails about how to tag a ditch with a bridge over it in a few hours I think everyone in OSM has had enough of it. I've rarely seen so much crap in such a small space. Haven't any of you heard of restraint? Clueless doesn't begin to describe it ... Maybe you just don't understand the details. Yes, in this particular case it's a bit contrived, but what if we're talking about a major highway? You don't want to tag bridges where there are no bridges, that's just going to confuse people when their car tells them to continue over the bridge. And you don't want to show a gap between the ditch and the road where one does not exist, because someone might be tempted to try to walk there, and maybe they want to find a different route rather than walking over a major highway. Don't make much difference unless you are going to give the road a width, Mark the culvert to start where the culvert starts, and also where it ends. If you want to ensure that nobody wants to believe that there might be a gap between the start of the culvert and the side of the road. Then your going to need some way to give the road width. Generally sides of roads are not marked on OSM only the centre. To map the sides your going to need to map the road as an area like we do with rivers, and this is not really supported yet! (or I believe really wanted) Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Dual/Multiple licencing
2009/12/14 Brendan Morley morb@beagle.com.au: Maybe I missed something in the discussion but... Why must there be migration to the new licence? Why can't we run both indefinitely? Because there are things you can do with one that you can't do with the other, and there are things you must do with one and you don't need to do with the other. eg CCbySA says you must attribute where it came from, ODbl make no such demand. So by following ODbl you break CCbySA. and the law is about black and white not shades of grey. Regards Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] Fwd: Re: Why PD is not better for business
2009/12/11 paul youlten paul.youl...@gmail.com: Dave, Clearly all those things, and much more, can and should be mapped. They can all be seen on the street and they all have public access. I agree: If it's a physical entity then it can be mapped. ++ What is less clear is what happens if changing the licence means we lose invisible administrative boundaries and data from areas where public access is difficult, restricted or non-existent. For example would be nice to include the boundaries of a UK National Park or a site of special scientific interest or (dare I say it) the coastline of Australia - but I don't think it is a disaster that threatens the future of the project if these things are removed because of a change in the licence. PY From having seen it in quite a few Open Source projects, it would be a death sentence. Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] Fwd: Re: Why PD is not better for business
2009/12/11 paul youlten paul.youl...@gmail.com: Peter, That sounds bad. Can you give us some examples? PY On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 2:47 PM, Peter Childs pchi...@bcs.org wrote: 2009/12/11 paul youlten paul.youl...@gmail.com: Dave, Clearly all those things, and much more, can and should be mapped. They can all be seen on the street and they all have public access. I agree: If it's a physical entity then it can be mapped. ++ What is less clear is what happens if changing the licence means we lose invisible administrative boundaries and data from areas where public access is difficult, restricted or non-existent. For example would be nice to include the boundaries of a UK National Park or a site of special scientific interest or (dare I say it) the coastline of Australia - but I don't think it is a disaster that threatens the future of the project if these things are removed because of a change in the licence. PY From having seen it in quite a few Open Source projects, it would be a death sentence. Hmm Maybe these have not all died but the split did cause serious damage. X (You now have a choice of X.org and XFree86), The split caused a long halt in development and the original is hardly used now, only the branch Joomla/Mambo I'm sure there are others Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] Fwd: Re: Why PD is not better for business
2009/12/11 Emilie Laffray emilie.laff...@gmail.com: 2009/12/11 Peter Childs pchi...@bcs.org Hmm Maybe these have not all died but the split did cause serious damage. X (You now have a choice of X.org and XFree86), The split caused a long halt in development and the original is hardly used now, only the branch Joomla/Mambo I'm sure there are others Hum, the examples you are choosing are interesting but not for the reason you think. Please note that I am not advocating a fork far from it. In the two cases you cited, the fork is actually very strong, and there was very little damage. Hmm the Fork is strong? in the case of X XFree86 (ie the original) is almost unknown now. and the Fork meant many years of little or no development on what is the main graphics sub-system used across multiple operating systems. Project split for many reasons but I will never think that a split is or was a good thing. I would prefer in almost all cases one good tool for the job, instead of 3 tools that all do the same job badly. Lets work together rather than apart, our strength is in the Union. Peter Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Divided roads proposal
2009/12/4 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2009/12/4 Morten Kjeldgaard m...@bioxray.dk There's nothing you can do with drawing that can't be done with tagging, and there's in principle nothing being done with tagging that can't be rendered beautifully on the final map. It only depends on the richness of the tagging language and the sophistication of the renderers. I just agree partly Me Too, however There are two types of Dual Carrage-way.which I think is the problem here. Type One. Large Motor Way Type Roads (but also large Primary roads), with Slip Roads, and the two separate carriageways are never joined, or maybe by a roundabout from time to time or other major junction. Here its best to map each carriage way separately as they are separate roads. Type Two Smaller roads where the Dual Carriage way exists but is split at regular intervals by gaps to turn right (Sorry I'm in the Uk (Left in most countries)), Often created due to the lay of the land, Bridges, Tunnels, Crossing Islands, Safety Island, etc. May exist for a few meters upto a major junction to help traffic flow etc I think we actually need both, and use the right one for the logic of the road/junction. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Path vs footway vs cycleway vs...
2009/11/30 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com: On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 9:25 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: An area of grass is - to me - not a path. A path, IMHO, is something that exists independently of people walking or not walking on it (i.e. usually you can *see* that it resembles a path). -1, a path is either planned and constructed (the ones you are refering to) or it creates itself by frequent use (e.g. shortcuts on grass). IMHO the latter are even more valueable to the project because they are usable but you don't find them in other maps. A shortcut through grass that you can see, sure! e.g. http://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/18/97/189701_92c9a5d5.jpg But if you can't see it - sorry - you're not going to convince me that there is a path. If you can see some grass, sure, map that. But just being able to walk on the grass does not turn the grass into a path. Otherwise, in any area of grass there would actually be *infinite* overlapping, criss-crossing invisible-paths. :P Perhaps what we need here is a tag that says you can walk anyway you like within this area, Like a large town squares, playing field, etc I know that places like Scotland there is a Right to Roam but for most of us, we need to keep to paths but sometimes areas are less strict Walking routing software could see this area and take the shortest route across the area. Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Isn't it time for a higher zoom level?
2009/11/21 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: 2009/11/21 Peter Childs pchi...@bcs.org: If we had an application, that could read osm and render on the fly we could have any zoom level we like, including zoom levels between zoom levels, (ie vector graphics) In theory Potlatch already does some of this, buts it written to enter data not render the map, so its not the purpose it was meant for. Such an application could do lots of extra stuff such having a plugable coordinate system, (so we can have better maps of the poles etc) Just wish I had time to do something. (Which I don't) Someone already did this using javascript... However it takes a lot of CPU to render on the fly like that... But most people have more CPU than they really know what to do with these days. Download bandwidth and remote storage is the bigger problem with the current tile method. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Isn't it time for a higher zoom level?
2009/11/20 Kenneth Gonsalves law...@au-kbc.org: On Saturday 21 Nov 2009 4:59:47 am Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: On Saturday 21 Nov 2009 2:14:35 am Arlindo Pereira wrote: Probably this should be targeted for a more specific list like mapnik-, but I'd like to hear (er, read) what do you think about this matter. http://xlquest.net oops - http://xlquest.net/?zoom=20lat=12.94659lon=80.13845layers=B -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Senior Project Officer NRC-FOSS http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk If we had an application, that could read osm and render on the fly we could have any zoom level we like, including zoom levels between zoom levels, (ie vector graphics) In theory Potlatch already does some of this, buts it written to enter data not render the map, so its not the purpose it was meant for. Such an application could do lots of extra stuff such having a plugable coordinate system, (so we can have better maps of the poles etc) Just wish I had time to do something. (Which I don't) Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] What Streets are in what Places
2009/11/18 Peter Körner osm-li...@mazdermind.de: Liz schrieb: On Fri, 13 Nov 2009, Peter Childs wrote: What I would like to do is write a script that takes the planet and gives a list of the places (towns, villages etc) and a polygon/area for each place. Please leave australia out of your bot's reach. we have imported government data which has achieved this for us. Liz Please do not import this data into the DB automaticly - instead you may produce KML files or sth. we can overlay on the maps to verify the results first. Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk That would be my plan, If any, Its meta data, its data created from OSM so it really has no place in the database, If a script can create the data, then that script can can be run again and again, The data is not needed in the database and should not be there. If the data in OSM changes the results from the script will change and that is how it should be. Basically like osm2pgsql. Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] What Streets are in what Places
2009/11/18 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: 2009/11/18 Emilie Laffray emilie.laff...@gmail.com: 2009/11/18 Liz ed...@billiau.net On Fri, 13 Nov 2009, Peter Childs wrote: What I would like to do is write a script that takes the planet and gives a list of the places (towns, villages etc) and a polygon/area for each place. Please leave australia out of your bot's reach. we have imported government data which has achieved this for us. I tend to agree with Liz here. Those polygons do not belong in OSM as they don't represent anything besides helping you with what you are doing. If you need them, then build them directly into your own database. Liz never said that, she just doesn't want bots screwing up existing data in Australia similar to what has happened in the past. In fact she said such boundaries already exist in OSM. I agree, No Bot should EVER be writing data into the database that was interfered from other data. If the original data changes the inferred data would need to change to, and we can't expect that to ever happen correctly. There may be a few bots trying to clean up the data to improve constancy etc. but I'm not even sure that's a good idea, every time. I'm now thinking that osm2pgsql may do the job I want any way. Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] What Streets are in what Places
2009/11/14 Brian Quinion openstreet...@brian.quinion.co.uk: On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 7:51 PM, Peter Childs pchi...@bcs.org wrote: Looking at this the new Nominatim service seams to do 85% of what I need, and might do more at a pinch. (Only found the service when I logged into IRC tonight) My hope is that in the fullness of time Nominatim can be extended to provide some sort of directory or supplementary address information export for osm. but at the moment I'm concentrating on the search functionality. If anyone else would like to join it to work on this aspect it would always be appreciated - I'm busy documenting what I've done at the moment, although there is a long way still to go. One thing to say is that the address generation is fairly simplistic. The addresses are mostly at the moment intended to provide context to the search results and I'm fully aware that in a lot of cases they are incorrect. Some of the techniques discusses in the thread above are far more advanced! You can read a quick summary of how it currently works here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Nominatim/Development_overview -- Brian It gives a nice starting place, its not to say it can't be expanded and improved. But its better than starting with a clean sheet of paper than I thought I was. (And it will do most of what I need for the moment, I think But as always things can be improved, mainly through better and better data. In other-words its a good start and solves my problems for the time being. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] What Streets are in what Places
Looking at this the new Nominatim service seams to do 85% of what I need, and might do more at a pinch. (Only found the service when I logged into IRC tonight) I'll have to have a look before I start reinventing the wheel. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] What Streets are in what Places
2009/11/13 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: 2009/11/13 Peter Childs pchi...@bcs.org: The is_in tag is not a lot of use either due to it being inconsistent. I thought is_in is depreciated and replaced by polygons? While I don't think this list would be worth piping back in to the database, it might be useful for knowing what were missing. I can think of a lot of reasons why it would be great if that information was in the OSM DB. Maybe Places should be area's rather than points anyway. +1 I'm, quite happy for the places to overlap I can think of more than one place where some small village has been overrun by the next large town. and while the village still exists as a row of small shops its now see by most as part of the larger town. Over lapping areas might get messy. Then again in terms of cities they have suburbs That may have once been villages, and may still be know as that by the locals. My first though was for an generated list rather than entered boarders, however thinking again this might need some human intervention to work properly. I'm not trying to reflect local government admin boarders, or postal districts. more I need to go to High Street, Sudbury. I need to know which one, (There are 5 and none are in the actual town of Sudbury but in nearby villages.. So I need to clarify where to go (and know to do so) (The 5 are also in the same UK postal district so that does not help either!) So my list needs to say There is no such place according to our records Peter. Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] What Streets are in what Places
2009/11/13 Andrew Errington a.erring...@lancaster.ac.uk: On Fri, November 13, 2009 16:43, Peter Childs wrote: Any ideas. You could calculate node density (nodes/km2) and assume that node density will decay from the centre of a town to the edge. This would work for the nodes in ways, since 'in town' will have more streets than 'out of town'. A rural area with winding roads might have an increased number of nodes (to get smooth curves) but it would have fewer roads. You could also use POI density, on the assumption that there are more shops, hospitals, pubs and restaurants in a town, and the density drops off out of town. Set a threshold, and mark the border between above threshold (in town) and below threshold (out of town). Sounds as good method as any other. Might be able to use where Churches, Market Squares, Pubs, Shops, Schools etc to work out where town centres are, If we can do that we can have a list of possible town centres without names. after all if somthing has the name Wainscott Primary School and we have a village of Wainscott nearby one would tend to presume that the school must be within the bounds of the village. Places like London would be tricky, as the node density would be high across the whole area, so maybe you can't pick out the individual towns. However, land use might help. Commercial Zone tend to be near the middle and residential/industrial on the outskirts, however then they go and build that big new out of town shopping centre. Historically towns appeared at major road junctions, river crossing etc. However in recent years they tend to mean the town ends, after all who crosses that major dual carriageway that circles most major towns these days. (After all we have to build our bypasses (Hitch Hikers Guide)) Anyway, please do not give these ideas any more credence than those from any other random internet source. :) Best wishes, Andrew Of course not. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] What Streets are in what Places
2009/11/13 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: 2009/11/13 Peter Childs pchi...@bcs.org: My first though was for an generated list rather than entered boarders, however thinking again this might need some human intervention to work properly. Boundaries are just as much arbitary as they are geographically based etc I'm not trying to reflect local government admin boarders, or postal districts. more I need to go to High Street, Sudbury. I need to know I know exactly what you are talking about, in fact I've already attempted to do this already: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/36960948 Gympie township covers all or at last parts of Gympe, South Side, Monkland, Araluen, Jones Hill, Victory Heights I like it, but I wonder whether the place=city should be on the way rather than on some miscellaneous node. I'm not sure I like the bodge that is admin_level's I had always thought of them as government administration borders. I also see the current use of place nodes as tagging for the render as when they get in the way they ten to get moved so somewhere more convent for the mapper However they do server there purpose to mark town centres. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] What Streets are in what Places
2009/11/13 Florian Lohoff f...@rfc822.org: On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 07:43:20AM +, Peter Childs wrote: However in OSM places are points not area's and the areas we do have are either to do with admin (ie Counties, Borough's etc) and hence are rather less than helpful. The is_in tag is not a lot of use either due to it being inconsistent. I could do it with some kind of nearest function but I don't think this is going to give me the right answer either. What is in a place, is often to do with other geographic features, like gaps in housing, majro roads etc, and also to do with history, What I would like to do is write a script that takes the planet and gives a list of the places (towns, villages etc) and a polygon/area for each place. While I don't think this list would be worth piping back in to the database, it might be useful for knowing what were missing. Maybe Places should be area's rather than points anyway. This is a quite complicated thing to do - Some parts of the world fill very quickly with admin boundaries and using them for searching in the garmins would definitly give them a strong boost which i'd like to see. The other point is that people are used to fuzzy or non exact search. For example i am living in a Town called Rietberg which has a large area it covers. There are multiple suburbs which are very distinct from Rietberg the town itself. People are used to be able to search for either Rietberg or even the suburbs names e.g. Mastholte or Varensell - So in google ou can search for Alt Hammoor 38, Rietberg, Germany Alt Hammoor 38, Mastholte, Germany which is the same place - Postal wise the address is 33397 Rietberg but all in car navigations are happy to accept Mastholte aswell. This gets more complicated taking large citys like Berlin - where the individual districts are their own administration and therefor have their own admin_level 8 boundary. People on the other hand are used to search for Gorßbeerenstraßen, Berlin to work - e.g. spit out all the Großbeerenstraße Berlin has (Mentioning the District - TomTom does this). So - it comes down that people are used to search for admin_level=10 names and content and for admin_level=6 Content which will then look for all content in admin_level=6+ .. So - i'd vote for strictly using admin boundarys and invent some tags for giving some hints - It does not make sense to include admin_level=4 or most of the time it does not make sense to include admin_level=6 for searching (Kreis Gütersloh for example makes no sense) - But sometimes it should be included that you look for Großebeerenstraße, Berlin and get Großebeerenstraße, Kreuzberg, Berlin Großebeerenstraße, Lichterfeld, Berlin aswell as beeing able to search for Großebeerenstraße, Kreuzberg Searching for place nodes and guessing is prone to errors and hinting will be on a per street level which will be very hard to maintain and include so ... Admin boundarys are there for a reason ... Flo The problem with admin boundaries, here in the Uk anyway is that they have very little to do with the towns or places they actually are around. Admin_level tends to suggest a simple hierarchy that does not exists. and tends from what I've seen here to be related to govenment admin stration areas, Parish, Borough, County etc etc. Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] What Streets are in what Places
I'm trying to find away to place streets in to places, so I can automatcally know the xxx street is in xxx town. However in OSM places are points not area's and the areas we do have are either to do with admin (ie Counties, Borough's etc) and hence are rather less than helpful. The is_in tag is not a lot of use either due to it being inconsistent. I could do it with some kind of nearest function but I don't think this is going to give me the right answer either. What is in a place, is often to do with other geographic features, like gaps in housing, majro roads etc, and also to do with history, What I would like to do is write a script that takes the planet and gives a list of the places (towns, villages etc) and a polygon/area for each place. While I don't think this list would be worth piping back in to the database, it might be useful for knowing what were missing. Maybe Places should be area's rather than points anyway. I'm, quite happy for the places to overlap I can think of more than one place where some small village has been overrun by the next large town. and while the village still exists as a row of small shops its now see by most as part of the larger town. Any ideas. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] Adding some additional building around the Angel area of London?
2009/11/11 Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net: Ed Loach wrote: Why do we have to try and get multiple logos rendered on Mapnik, rather than anyone who wants to use different renderings in a specific area rendering their own? They have access to the data after all. Indeed. We shouldn't even be thinking of adding the LU roundel to the core OSM rendering right now. If we do that, we need to add a Glasgow Clockwork Orange-specific one, a Paris Metro one, a New York subway one, etc. etc. etc. Then, people will ask - no, demand - to start rendering US roads in US highway colours with US highway shields; Australian ones with this insane system of about 900 shields that they have over there; and the whole etc. etc. etc. thing all over again. One of the main joys with the standard OSM map is that everywhere looks the same, so a Primary Road looks the same where ever it is in the world, You don't need to look at the key to work out what it is. Its very disconcerting when on Google everything suddenly changes colour when you cross the border. OSM also has the advantage that you can render your map your self, If you want Yellow Primary Roads, London Transport Symbol for train stations etc etc then go ahead, If you infridge copy right on your own rendering its not in the OSM data so OSM can't be blamed. So is this legal? I'm not 100% sure, Peter. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] Why do you use Google Maps instead of OSM? Because of buildings...
While the map quaility may have some weight as to why people use Google (or Bing for that matter) I suspect the bigger problem is the User Interface. We have a good UI for map making maps but the API for rending and searching the maps is hmm well complicated. Part of the problem stems from there being so many different ways to do everything, I can't really say Google is any better at this really, but at least its well documented and everything is in one place. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] alley - for tree-lined roads?
2009/11/4 Andrew Errington a.erring...@lancaster.ac.uk On Wed, November 4, 2009 10:25, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: On Tuesday 03 Nov 2009 8:12:55 pm Peter Childs wrote: Participially if the trees overhang the road, and may get in the way of Busses (that often have to brush past them) and other high sided vehicles. Perhaps there should be a way to mark if this may be a problem for such vehicles. very useful - trees and pavements have been driving me crazy -- Probably this should be handled with a height restriction: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:maxheight Generally, if it's a main thoroughfare the local authority will trim the trees to allow all traffic to pass (including buses and lorries). True, but always nice to know what causes the height restriction, and where the trees are that might need trimming, or may cause high sided vehicles to run closer to the centre of the road to avoid the trees. (partically if a bus lane is present but can't be used due to said trees) Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] alley - for tree-lined roads?
2009/11/3 Hillsman, Edward hills...@cutr.usf.edu Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 12:54:32 + From: Robert rop...@online.de Subject: [OSM-talk] [tagging] alley - for tree-lined roads? Hello, We are discussing in talk-de (German board) just streets and other ways with many trees nearby. I found here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:natural%3Dtree http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/tree_row alley=left/right/both I think the tag ?alley? is a mistranslation (false friends) and 1. avenue or 2. tree-lined road is better for roads marked by trees. Nice Idea, Participially if the trees overhang the road, and may get in the way of Busses (that often have to brush past them) and other high sided vehicles. Perhaps there should be a way to mark if this may be a problem for such vehicles. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Roadside Distance Markers
2009/10/23 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com 2009/10/23 mle i...@dynoyo.plus.com: Hi Folks - on a recent survey, I mapped some roads with modern km markers by the side of the road. How should these be mapped - As a node within the highway, or a separate single node to the side of the highway. And how to tag these ? Wouldn't it be better to make a relation or something similar to indicate the start of the way and then mile markers can be calculated? __ These markers usually have a reference number so that the services can find you, and an arrow pointing in the direction of the nearest emergency phone. You may even find them more often then 1km more like 100meters If your talking about what I think your talking about, they exists down every motorway in the UK. Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] maposmatic for the UK?
2009/10/23 Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com I was at a meeting with our county council yesterday evening to discuss 'strategic cycle routes' in my town for inclusion in the official cycling strategy which will be applicable for the next decade. It was a very good and useful meeting, only one problem though, the base map they were using didn't have the cycle routes on it! (it had roads and buildings but didn't even have national cycle route because the OS still don't seem to know about cycle routes in their vector datasets). It also didn't have the recently completed housing on it of course. Very irritating. At a future meeting I would love to be able to recommend that they print an OpenStreetMap. Unfortunately, MapOSMatic, which is the only service that I am aware of that allows one to create big town maps only works within France at present. Does anyone fancy talking to them and helping with a translation? This is what is says on their home page: Right now MapOSMatic is only available for the metropolitan France area. We need contributors to translate and adapt the few parts of MapOSMatic that are country specific.[1] Regards, Peter [1] http://maposmatic.org/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb Seams to work, Well its generating me a map of Medway now.. Oh its blank... It looks like they only currently have a part of the Data in the database, Possibly due to server space and processing time. I doubt the work needed is large, probably just a matter of translating a few odd words from French. and importing ensuring the hard disks are big enough for the data. But a large map in French of the Uk is better than No Map, so it looks like a data issue really. Peter. Peter. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] maposmatic - update
2009/10/23 Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com Ok, so after looking a bit more carefully and reading their blog[1] it says that they are working on the performance issues associated with running a global service. Regards, Peter [1] http://news.maposmatic.org/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb I'm looking at this and thinking that it should not take days to import the planet into a database... I'm currently trying to import the database into postgres using osmosis (to try and do some work on geocoding) and most of the processing it being used by osmosis I'm not i/o locked, I'm processor locked. and it looks like osm2pgsql suffers from a similar feature. I'm thinking that there must be a better way... I suspect the problem lies it knowing which nodes are needed to import all the relations in an area when some of those node may be outside the area. But this should not be needed at all if your not filtering and just importing a full database. I suspect that a Sax Parser ought to be able to read the input and output Sql without needing to do much more work, (well not much more than hold the odd bit of state) Peter. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (man_made=mineshaft)
2009/10/20 Lesi l...@lesi.is-a-geek.net Hello, based on an old (abandoned) proposal and on a discussion in the German board I have created a new proposal for tagging mineshafts: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Mineshaft In addition to this proposal I would like to discuss the tag resource. In my proposal resource is used to describe what is mined for with the mineshaft. These resources are the same that can be used in a power plant, but there they are tagged as power source. It's the same with pumping_rig and pipelines, where this resources are tagged as type. What do you think about standardizing this and replacing all this different tags with one: resource? lesi Not sure thats going to work Power Plants produce Electricity from the resource Mine Shafts produce the resource. A Processing Plant, will produce one resource and take in a different one, I agree standardizing on resource might be a good idea but we might need resource_output and resource_input or somthing Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC -(man_made=mineshaft)
2009/10/21 Ulf Lamping ulf.lamp...@googlemail.com Anthony schrieb: Disused canal, fine. Disused railway, sure. Disused building, no problem. Disused quarry, yes. But disused cafe? A cafe is a building, or part of a building, which is *used* as a cafe. The use is part of the definition. Well, yes and no. People might remember that there once was a cafe. They might call the building the cafe even if its no longer a cafe in use. So this is what the mapper *may* wanted to express. While I don't think the combination is well done, it but could well have its reasons. However, This obviously doesn't work pretty well in the 4th dimension, if you want to tag: this once was a cafe, before that a pub, before a bakery and before that a police_station. Another even simpler problem, if a node is tagged: shop=bakery amenity=police_station disused=yes disused refers to shop or amenity now? Yes But, If a Pub is tagged amenity=pub disused=yes The thing looks like a put (ie large pub like lables) hence works relatively well as a land mark, it just happens to be closed and does not sell Beer anymore. Its still useful if its a landmark. same as a disused mine shaft is. Once it gets knocked down, or reused, or as something else then the tags need changing. Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] Inaccurate Sea Boundary of England
2009/10/15 Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com: John Robert Peterson jrp@... writes: Don't you mean the French Channel? :PJR Good question. Names of seas and oceans aren't currently shown on the main OSM slippy map; are they tagged anywhere? Well, The Bristol Channel has got a node, and is tagged, Waterway=Bay. The wiki seams to suggest the Oceans should be tagged place=sea which does not seam quite right. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Ocean I suspect we just need a standard way of tagging them and then to get the renders to start rendering them. Then we can add the Irish Sea. English Channel, Indian Ocean. we probably ought to have Cape Horn and the Cape of Good Hope named as well. Peter. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] Instead of voting
2009/10/9 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org: Hi, Matt Amos wrote: 1) Just map. 2) Use existing keys if you can. 3) Use existing tags if you can. 4) If you used a tag that isn't in the wiki, document your use of the tag, so that other people won't use your tag to mean something else. this is awesome advice. If there's one thing I could add, even though it is kind of implied by the above: (5) Never ever invent a tag that you don't have a concrete use for. We already have too many computer people who get carried away by thought experiements (yes but if the spot where the road and railway intersect also happens to be a station and have a traffic light and a river flowing underneath, what are you going to do THEN). Welcome to the real world where that actually happens. (Or something very close) Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] England, Wales, Scotland borders
2009/10/7 Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com: Peter Childs pchilds at bcs.org writes: The regional development agencies have quite big budgets, actually. But I'd agree that England needs to have it's own level. I think admin_level=5 and an update to the wiki might be the best move. I might have confused 'regions' with 'regional development agencies'. The latter do not have any real powers but the regions do at least elect MEPs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regions_of_England http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_development_agency So, although for most government purposes there is no layer in between English counties (outside London) and Westminster, the regions do just about exist for various obscure purposes, so I'd grudgingly accept they should be accorded an admin_level. -- Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com Hmm In that case should they not have the same Admin Level through out Europe, so a Electoral Area for an MEP is the same Admin level throughout Europe... Or does that make life difficult, for us to organise Euro wide consistency. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] England, Wales, Scotland borders
2009/10/6 Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@googlemail.com: The regional development agencies have quite big budgets, actually. But I'd agree that England needs to have it's own level. I think admin_level=5 and an update to the wiki might be the best move. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] Royal Mail lawyers demand closure of postcode lookup site
2009/10/6 OJ W ojwli...@googlemail.com: First strike! [jobcentre-plus seem to have been using this data]. Two more, and we should cut-off the government's internet connection ;) Actually I think its more along the line of a company that knows its head is on the line. The SCO stuff a few years ago spring to mind. I'm wondering who has actually made there subscription charge for this data, and I wonder how long it will be before loads of Local Councils are having trouble with Council Tax and deciding which school is the closest. Peter On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 11:10 AM, David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com wrote: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/06/royal_mail_ernest_marples_postcodes/ ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[OSM-talk] EGNOS
I'm sure EGNOS is something else other than the new Euro GPS system, but I can't for the life of me remember what, something to do with food and Christmas rings a bell but I can't think what. Anyway so EGNOS is now available for use. So what new things can we do with this new available accuracy, and which devices are EGNOS compatible Oh and is it going to achieve what they way it will or is it going to be a bit of a flop. Oh and I spose the best question If I have an EGNOS GPS can I actual use the data on OSM or is there some copyright stopping me. Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SteveC should decide
2009/10/1 Pieren pier...@gmail.com: On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 2:56 PM, Russ Nelson nel...@crynwr.com wrote: Would it be a good compromise to say: 1. a software application should always check boolean against yes/true/1 and not only yes 2. the wiki shoudl recommend the yes 3. a bot is setup to replace regularly all values true or 1 by yes and false or 0 by no (and nothing else). In this way, mappers are still free to prefer true or 1 and we try to keep some consistency. Or would this bot be banned ? Pieren The problem with this is that things are never that black and white there are aways shades of Grey. Simple Parsing might be quite happy with Yes/No or True/False, but 2 might mean something different to 1 while both can be inferred to mean yes. Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] SteveC should decide
2009/10/1 Pieren pier...@gmail.com: On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 3:32 PM, Peter Childs pchi...@bcs.org wrote: The problem with this is that things are never that black and white there are aways shades of Grey. Simple Parsing might be quite happy with Yes/No or True/False, but 2 might mean something different to 1 while both can be inferred to mean yes. Peter Yes, I forgot to mention something that was obvious for me. The value should be checked against his key. A maxspeed=1 or width=1 or layer=0 is of course possible (although not always sensible). But I'm not the one who will write such bot, I was just asking if this would be well considered or if it just a bad idea. Pieren My Fault bad example its more Yes/No/Tuesdays, (Tuesday meaning Yes But only on a Tuesday) which I guess in most cases should be in another tag, But the number of times I've met -1 to mean True and then find a place where -1 is False is not as small as you think. (Says he a Programmer) Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] 'High speed one' rail
2009/10/1 OJ W ojwli...@googlemail.com: Is this break in it intentional? http://osm.org/go/0EDRRyA6 ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb One Word, Liam123 The last change to both ends of that bit of HS1 was a revert from a Liam123 edit so I'm guessing the bit in the middle was not reverted Peter. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] Field boundaries
2009/9/29 Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com: Peter Childs wrote: 2009/9/28 Mark Williams mark@blueyonder.co.uk: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 courtland.yoc...@mindspring.com wrote: I've been thinking a bit about this from a very different perspective - that of parks and other open public areas where you might not have a chance to walk the perimeter ... for instance, you've a dog who really doesn't want that boring walk around the edge, but bobs and weaves all about the space and this might be one of only a couple of potential visits you might be able to make to the site. I think that an accumulation of unordered points over time either by one person or multiple people who capture GPS information _incidentally_ would be useful in defining the core of the public (or private, in the case of tractors on farmland) space. There's no need to gather tracks, merely points. Let the accumulation of points define the space. This is something of a corollary to the notion of wisdom of the crowd and it can be seen in action in the United States on major thoroughfares, such as the interstate highways, where the accumulation of multiple tracks over time can be u sed to define a way. user id on openstreemap = ceyockey If I'm out walking with the dogs, I tend to not go near the edge UNLESS I'm mapping, because they won't crawl under hedges if I'm already a fair way off, but will do so happily if it doesn't take them far. I suspect I'm not the only one, so you'd end up with a ludicrously fat hedge. I also tend not to go into corners will often stop a little before the end of a field. Mark I think this is a case of Better to have a park with a ludicrously fat hedge than no hedge, or field at all. With average GPS only giving an accuracy of around 10-50 meters its not going to be far out anyway. Peter. I wouldn't be such as slave to your GPS. We all know of the apocryphal stories of GPS slaves who drive off cliff faces. Just because you didn't walk to the corner doesn't mean you didn't survey it. If you're aware that the hedge isn't actually fat then don't map it as such, do it as you saw it. Your eyes are the most important/accurate piece of surveying equipment. If your minds not to hot though, take a camera/paper/pen. If fields boundaries are straight, I rarely walk the whole perimeter, just parts of those boundaries extrapolate. Either that, or train you dogs to do as you order :-) Cheers Dave F. Better still strap the GPS to the Dog and let the Dog do the hard work, You can then stand in the middle and do the stuff the dog can't. Alas I don't have a dog and can't stand the animals either.. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Field boundaries
2009/9/30 Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com: Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) wrote: Or better still, train dogs to walk only under hedges and fit them with a GPS :-) What tag should we use for territorial pissings? ;) I think that would have to be an admin_level=11 or maybe 12. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - landuse=orchard
2009/9/29 Claudius claudiu...@gmx.de: Am 28.09.2009 20:40, Pieren: Hi all, This is not my proposal but this tag is used by the Corine Land Cover current import in France corresponding to the class 2.2.2 of this european program (Agricultural areas - Permanent crops - Fruit trees and berry plantations). I would like to push this for improvements and a proper adoption. Please check the proposal and add your comments here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/orchard Pieren I'd rather like to see this merged into some more generic landuse=agricultural tagging-scheme. Which would cover general farmland (currently tagged as landuse=farmland) as well. Any farmer within the OSM crowd that could lend her/his expertise? Claudius Not being a Farmer I'm not 100% sure but I think we need to split up how a feed is used. ie Ploughed Field, Changed Every Year. Grass for grazing animals Orchard, permanent or semi-permanent trees/bushes While some farmers may rotate there land, partally with Orchards this is not as likely as with grassland and ploughed Fields Just my 2pence worth. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Field boundaries
2009/9/28 Mark Williams mark@blueyonder.co.uk: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 courtland.yoc...@mindspring.com wrote: I've been thinking a bit about this from a very different perspective - that of parks and other open public areas where you might not have a chance to walk the perimeter ... for instance, you've a dog who really doesn't want that boring walk around the edge, but bobs and weaves all about the space and this might be one of only a couple of potential visits you might be able to make to the site. I think that an accumulation of unordered points over time either by one person or multiple people who capture GPS information _incidentally_ would be useful in defining the core of the public (or private, in the case of tractors on farmland) space. There's no need to gather tracks, merely points. Let the accumulation of points define the space. This is something of a corollary to the notion of wisdom of the crowd and it can be seen in action in the United States on major thoroughfares, such as the interstate highways, where the accumulation of multiple tracks over time can be u sed to define a way. user id on openstreemap = ceyockey If I'm out walking with the dogs, I tend to not go near the edge UNLESS I'm mapping, because they won't crawl under hedges if I'm already a fair way off, but will do so happily if it doesn't take them far. I suspect I'm not the only one, so you'd end up with a ludicrously fat hedge. I also tend not to go into corners will often stop a little before the end of a field. Mark I think this is a case of Better to have a park with a ludicrously fat hedge than no hedge, or field at all. With average GPS only giving an accuracy of around 10-50 meters its not going to be far out anyway. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-transit] Bus stops not in naptan
2009/9/18 Ed Loach e...@loach.me.uk: Was there an agreement reached on how to tag bus stops that aren't in naptan? I verified 2 last night when out walking that I could see on the Mapnik layer only to find when I got back that they were two that I added in the dim and distant past (last December), so I'd verified my own additions. It's probable that no buses use that route at present, though I may be wrong. Holland Road, Little Clacton. Nodes 317709575 and 317709576 I'm guessing perhaps physically_present=yes? Ed I suspect we may find quite a few of these. Round us in Kent, we have Commuter Coaches that have there own stops that are nothing to do with the Local Bus company(s) so I doubt they are in Naplan but they do have regular buses. I don't think Medway has been imported yet so I can't say. (Note to self must add Medway to list) Peter ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] London Bridge
2009/9/18 Frankie Roberto fran...@frankieroberto.com: 2009/9/18 Peter Childs pchi...@bcs.org Its very difficult as London Bridge is based on about 6 layers with random escalators, lifts and ramps connecting it up. I'm thinking the building should only cover parts with a roof on and hence really needs cutting up. Yeah, agree. Is there a marker I can put up to say where the trains actually stop and that you need to move down the platform. Ideally, there should a way per railway track, and a way per platform (you can map platforms as areas, but it seems to work better as linear ways). If there's a way that represents more than one track (eg two tracks running between island platforms, add tracks=2). Then, make a node on each track to represent where the trains stop. There can be more than one of these if there are a few stopping points (eg platform 1a, 1b). Tag this railway=stop. All of these stopping points, plus the platforms, plus the station building, should then all belong to the station's relation (http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/205097) - ideally add role=stop to the stop nodes. Ok I spouse I need stop markers for different number of carriages. What about the back of the train? Also I guess we are going to need a tag to say The last set of doors will not open as the platform is not long enough. Maybe we should have door marks, ie Rather than say the train stops here say where the doors should be; I've seen these marked on the platform in some parts of the world and parts of the Tube have automatic doors fixed to the platform! Peter. ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] London Bridge
2009/9/18 Ed Loach e...@loach.me.uk: Peter asked: Anyone got a Zoom Layer beyond level 19 so I can see what I'm doing and pace the station out.. JOSM. I think you can just keep zooming in. It also displays the length (and bearing) of the current way you're adding. Useful in some situations. Ed ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit Hmm I'll find my theodolite, trundle wheel, and compass and go map the tube. Peter. ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-GB] liam123's latest
2009/9/18 David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com: ***PLEASE*** PULL THE PLUG ON HIM! Is it a good idea to remove the Live Change Feature in Potlatch for everyone. I'm thinking this is the cause for a lot of our problems. I can't see why anyone would want it any more anyway. Its a dangerous feature without a purpose. Peter. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] highway=residential for rural ways?
2009/9/16 Valent Turkovic valent.turko...@gmail.com: On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk wrote: Hi, My understanding is that rural roads (country lanes as they are called in the UK) should be highway=unclassified. However if there is a small housing estate or residential road in a village, it should be highway=residential. Cue long debate on this ;-) This is now how wiki says it should be mapped, why is that?!? If you check: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tagging_samples/out_of_town There is a clear definition on what unclassified is, and that are only really unimportant roads, so to say. My understanding was that Unclassified roads went somewhere and did not have a road number but were not up to Tertiary Standard (What ever that means) where as Residential Streets did not go anywhere and only had houses on them. bit like a living_street but where cars have priority really. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] NOVAM viewer
2009/9/15 Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com: On 15 Sep 2009, at 08:27, Brian Prangle wrote: Hi everyone Shelter = yes/no I think is essential to leave in as a requirement as to whether a bus stop is completley surveyed or not. For two reasons: indication of a shelter is a representation of what's present on the ground and it's a pretty siginificant presence ( after all we tag and map smaller things like post boxes and park benches!); and it's also useful for bus passengers to know whether they're going to get wet or not when waiting for a bus ( for when we can eventually actually render this on maps) So we can have bench=yes;bin=yes;lamp_post=yes on the same node if there are these other items attached to it. Personally I would prefer bus_stop=shelter/pole/customary/etc/etc to shelter=yes/no as it allows much greater richness and gives us a place to identify as stop as customary easily. It also fits with the pattern 'key=x' and the 'x=' with more details of the feature Regards, Peter Do we need to add to this, Request Bus Stops, ie Bus stops where you need to stick out you hand, From Stops where the bus always stop, Bus stands; (Where buses stop and have a coffee break) and Bus stations (Which I suspect is a completely separate tag), We need to split what buses do at the stops away from what is at the stop. I guess. Peter. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Data Used in Upcoming Monopoly Game
2009/9/9 Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com: On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote: Perhaps they are using OSM for data, dividing up the world into streets that players can buy and sell, but rendering the Google Maps tiles underneath. That seems a bit lame. I'm playing it right now, and this appears to be exactly the case. They are using the Google Maps API and so are showing Google's TeleAtlas tiles, but when you search for a road to buy, it uses OSM data to look for roads in the viewbox. When you pick the road to buy (the price seems to be related to the length of the OSM way with a similar name= tag), the OSM data is used to highlight the road. It's very slow right now, but it seems pretty fun. They do correctly attribute OSM data with CC-BY-SA, too. Oh great so you can buy a street, that does not exist on the map Great! Oh and an unmapped street that is on Google but not on OSM whats the charge. (Or is it first go map...) Sounds like a good method for trouble. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] Chester Zoo: feedback requested
2009/9/6 Dan Karran d...@karran.net: Frankie, Is there really a bridleway right through the middle? Doesn't that play havock with the paying to get in? There is indeed! It's kept completely separate from the zoo though by walls on both sides. It's crossed by two bridges and the monorail. I wonder if it would actually make it clearer in this situation to break the zoo into two, so it's clear that the path isn't a part of it? I've done that with London Zoo which has a road, canal and tow-path running through it at various points, and is connected using bridges and a tunnel (or two?). Howletts, and Portlympye in Kent also have foot paths ways going through the middle, Its seams to be quite common. Howletts has a bridge over the zoo path with a bell for people unable to use the bridge (so they can be escorted through the part in the zoo) I have no plans to go and micro-map these at the moment. Peter ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[OSM-talk] OSM Mailing List Reply To Header
Am I missing something, But it would help if the Reply-to header on all messages that go through the list(s) gets set to the list email, so that when we hit reply the message goes to the list by default. This is the way most of the other lists I'm on work, and its a bit annoying having to use Reply to all then remove everyone except the list. Also most people don't want the reply sent too them twice as if they are posting they are on the list, and hence should receive the answer twice. This might also help reduce the number of questions with out answers, when people have forgotten to put the answer on-list for everyone benefit. If someone want to reply off list then they can change but the default should be on-list. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Mailing List Reply To Header
I was only trying to sort out what I find to be an annoyance and a possible cause of why we get a lot of emails on this list without answers. I did not mean to start a holy war. Personally I think Email needs a complete and utter re-design from the ground up. Its not fit for the purpose it is now being used for, and forums are no better. But I will not go into that discussion here because its Off Topic and Silly, We have to cope with what we've got rather than try and reinvent the wheel. When I finally start a blog I will put a post on it about what I think we need to replace email. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] How to tag lanes, not ways, was: Deprecating the use of Tag:highway=stop in favour of Key:stop
Sorry for thinking out loud but here we go. A Way can have many lanes, Infact the default is lanes=2 (or is it?) oneway=yes infers lanes=1 lanes can be used for many purposes including turning, parking, walking cycling. Lanes need names I guess partially if we all going to use them to describe pavements, cycle tracks etc This sounds like a new data structure. Could put it in a standard syntax for tags but that sounds like a very dirty solution. so I'm thinking this will need new tables, and API enhancements. Each Lane need to carry tags like a way. Each Lane needs to have a parent way A Lane may need to be in a relation etc. I'm thinking Lane is a way without any nodes, but a Parent way (which has the nodes) and some tags to say where it is in the way. Hmm I don't think Lane is a good name, might get confused with the other kind of Lane (Small Uncalssiffied Road) Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] waterway=lock
2009/8/28 wynnd...@lavabit.com: On 27/08/09 12:13, Jack Stringer wrote: lock=yes lock_name=Withrington Bottom Lock When you are tagging a way, you can't use name= because that will already contain the name of the canal. Hence lock_name=. Why would you want to repeat the name of a canal on its individual nodes? Isn’t that repeating the mistake of the TIGER node tags? Read it again. on a node lock=yes name=lock name or on a node waterway=lock_gate name=lock gate name and on the way between the lock gates waterway=canal name=canal name lock=yes lock_name=lock name The Canal way will need to be split at the lock gates, (or in some cases where a diversion starts (due to some rivers going over weirs) while there is a lock for boats. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] waterway=lock
2009/8/28 Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net: Peter Childs wrote: The Canal way will need to be split at the lock gates, (or in some cases where a diversion starts (due to some rivers going over weirs) while there is a lock for boats. (UK-specific tagging stuff follows) Ideally I'd like to discourage people from using a (non-closed) way for locks where possible. It makes dealing with the data vastly harder; doesn't actually give you many real advantages; and is actively misleading in that it suggests the length of the way is significant. Given that UK locks have a tolerance measured in inches, and our mapping doesn't, the length is much better expressed in the maxlength tag. About the one thing to be said for mapping the lock as a way, with lock-gate nodes at either end, is that you can route a footpath over one of them. Which is quite nice in a micro-mapping sort of way but so much of an edge case (99% of footpath crossings are actually on lock bridges) that I don't see a real issue. If there's a _large_ lock - say, those on the Manchester Ship Canal - then it should really be mapped as an area, not an unclosed way. While I agree that a maxlength tag is a good idea. maxlength still needs to be on a way otherwise its saying the max length of the gate which is utter rubbish. Your suggestion is even more complex. a Closed area would not work as you need to map the gates so you would need 4 ways, one for each bank and one for each gate. I have no knowledge of Canals and shipping, so maybe we need an expert on how to map waterways properly. I guess you need two parallel ways for each bank of a river or canal and a third for the river itself right, When I was adding Tenston Lock I did not the banks where not maped only the river so there was no clue to river width. Oh sorry a river is a series of Area (he frowns) What event happens at the joins are they completely arbitratory. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] New dimension of vandalism
2009/8/26 Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net: Renaud Martinet wrote: I guess that the highway tag used to describe physical features of different types of roads back when OSM was quite UK-centric. Nope - UK highway tagging, which was of course the original, has always largely been aligned to administrative classifications. highway=motorway - UK motorway (Mx or Ax(M)) highway=trunk - UK primary A-road (Ax with green signs) highway=primary - UK non-primary A-road - yes, really (Ax with black/white signs) highway=secondary - UK B-road (Bx) We do have a super special, very rarely used exemption known as the Oxford High Street Exemption, though. I'm sorry what's this Oxford High Street Rule? This debate is very heated and difficult. from what I can work out it is about Importance it just happens that road classification in most countries is meant to show importance as well. Even the old out of copyright NPE OS maps do not use the classification to colour the roads, but some idea of size/importance. I'm trying to figure out what should be what in Gravesend, Kent, Uk and currently I've got difference classifications for similar roads in the east and west of the same town. I guess were going to need some strong beer when it comes to the mapping party. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] waterway=lock
2009/8/27 Jack Stringer jack.ix...@googlemail.com: Just looking at Keepright and I can see loads of waterway=lock What is the preferred way to record the information? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:waterway%3Dlock_gate Shows to tag both ends of the lock. If there is a name just to use name. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:lock Says to tag either both ends or just use a single node. Problem I see is that there are 2 ways to name a lock and 2 ways to indicate one exists. For example, waterway=lock_gate name=Withrington Bottom Lock My reading is that that should be on the Node that is the Lock Gate. or lock=yes lock_name=Withrington Bottom Lock The way I read it that should be on the way between the two lock gates, that make up the lock. There should not be any need to put the name on each gate unless they have different names, But putting waterway=lock_gate on a node without any way saying lock=yes is a short hand of saying lock here but not putting in the stretch of water between the lock and the second lock gate. I will grant this needs cleaning up. In the case of a lock I added in Teston, Kent, Uk last week, I put name=Teston Lock on both gates and lock_name=Teston Lock, lock=yes on the diversion I added, as the main River goes over a weir. (Marked weir=yes), Probably over kill but never mind. I have to grant that most of the renders don't show waterways very well currently. There is also a 5knots speed limit there as well, But I'm not sure I got the tags right. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [RFC] Deprecating the use of Tag:highway=stop in favour of Key:stop
2009/8/27 Marc Schütz schue...@gmx.net: Note that by requiring a junction, you make it impossible to model stop signs don't involve a junction. I don't know how frequent these occur, but I can imagine cases where there is a sharp curve before which you're required to stop. And I believe there are roads near airports with low-flying plains crossing the road, thought these are usually regulated by traffic lights. (Just for the sake of completeness.) Un-lit, Level Crossings? While these are not common here in the UK except possibly on Farm Tracks and footpaths. I am sure they will appear a lot in countries without a well an advanced road system Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] Uk Missing Major Roads.
2009/8/26 Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com: On 26 Aug 2009, at 10:08, Chris Hill wrote: The orange (maybe brownish) roads can be secondary, tertiary or unclassified. I've compared the NPE roads to some roads that I know well and they cover what I would say are secondary, tertiary or unclassified. Secondary have reference numbers. I guess its back to the beer method I can find about 9 roads in Gravesend alone that I think ought to be re-classified on OSM I need to do some ground work before going ahead, as I'm sure some of them have (or should have) B numbers Its becoming to feel like Highways have given up handing out new roads numbers (and removing old unnecessary ones) From what I can work out the Use of Green Signs on A roads has nothing to do with classification and more to do with who put it up and who maintains the road. (Highways or Local Council) A similar line being used with B Roads. I mean if you look at the A2 it looks and feels like a Motor Way (Hard Shoulder, Slipways, 70MPH) all the way till Wilmington it just happens that Tractors and Learners are aloud to use it (I would not advise it however). Many bits of the M2 beyond Gillingham are actually smaller (Only two lanes). Oh and the Blackwall Tunnel is the A102(M) so needs a reclassification as well (By the other set of rules), Which is just plain silly Peter. Oh and what do I do about the fact that the M20 is also the E15 ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Uk Missing Major Roads.
Would it be useful to validate our classification and labelling of roads in OSM against the relevant WIkipedia article[2]. Yes, But I'm still a little unclear from is as to what makes a trunk road trunk. I'm wondering if a render that ignores the classification but takes notice of lanes=? and dual carriage ways would help, sort out problems, maybe including some ranking as to where the roads connect Is there a way to tag the existence of a hard shoulder? eg lanes=3, hardshoulder=no for some sections of the M25 Peter. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] [RFC] Deprecating the use of Tag:highway=stop in favour of Key:stop
2009/8/25 John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com: How can mapping out a node not be simple? It is a lot simpler than mapping out a relation or splitting a way etc etc etc and the only thing that benefits from stop sign information is routing software, editors don't, mappers don't so making it more complicated than it needs to be everyone except routing software coders. How do relations make life simple for routing software. Surly its folly the way, if we meet a stop sign add slight pause and continue. A realtion is just another thing to look at, and handle. The only time I can see a relation actually helping is with stuff that is difficult to map like no left turn Mostly I just see a relation as a thing to use for long distance stuff. and hence I have never bothered with them yet. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[Talk-GB] Uk Missing Major Roads.
I was trying to fill in a few gaps in what I thought was where by looking at the Out Of Copyright OS Maps at http://www.npemap.org.uk Would it be right to suggest that all Orange Roads on this old map (should they still exist) including any obvious diversions are either Secondary (and should have numbers), or Tertrary Roads. and should be on OSM as such. Scales is far too small to trace but it might be useful for checking classification, and finding a few missing roads Did not find what I wanted as it was not there back in 1940, So I'm going to have to get out and do it on the ground instead :) (Does the Village on the map between Meopham, Sole Street, A2 and Southfleet and Sole Street have a name?) If this is a silly idea you can all shout at once. Peter. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] Escalators and Travalators
2009/8/23 Mike Harris mik...@googlemail.com: Could I ask the architects whether their down-to-up convention applies to escalators as well (cf. current discussion on 'steps') - given that they are moving steps - or only to up-escalators (;) ... Also steps where a One-Way System applies (even on Steps) (Due to local regulations ie School Rules, Que etc) I think this is the perfect use of incline, (see other thread) Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[Talk-GB] Gravesend Mapping Party Plans
Quick date for your Diaries Mapping Party in Gravesend 10th/11th October 2009 See http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GravesendMappingParty for more details Hope to see you there. Peter. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] District Boundaries - N Wales
2009/8/23 David Dixon da...@ddixon.force9.co.uk: In short, Wales includes the adjacent sea - don't ask me to what distance from land though! One would infer from that that it includes all Uk waters round Wales (is that 20km or something), except where that would meet other national water, where I'm guessing its half way. I did hear of one place where the English/Welsh board ran down a middle of a residential street, Houses on the RIght in Wales and on the Left in England, I believe it was on TV a few weeks ago. ie different Tax, Bin Day and Prescription Charges etc. If wales does not extend beyond the high water mark, we'll all put houses on stilts in the sea (between high and low water to avoid council tax. Peter. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[OSM-talk] Escalators and Travalators
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Escalator I'm trying to work out how to tag Escalators I'm not sure the current tagging it clear, or even partially useful. This ties in Greatly with the long running Path discussion.. There seams to be no clear way to tag Moving Walkways or Travelators these are Esclators without steps, so the current tagging steps with an extra tag just does not work, spouse you could tag a path, but that just makes it worse. one_way would seam to make as much sence as escalator_dir currently, and maybe this could be unified. Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Escalators and Travalators
2009/8/22 Tobias Knerr o...@tobias-knerr.de: Peter Childs wrote: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Escalator I'm trying to work out how to tag Escalators I'm not sure the current tagging it clear, or even partially useful. I wouldn't call this current tagging. That page is a proposal in draft state, i.e. its not even in the please look at my proposal, try it and comment state (aka RFC). So if we find something better, we can just use that instead. There seams to be no clear way to tag Moving Walkways or Travelators these are Esclators without steps, so the current tagging steps with an extra tag just does not work, spouse you could tag a path, but that just makes it worse. I believe the best way to solve this is to create a new top-level (that is, highway) value for all variants of conveyor transport. So, for example, we could do: highway = conveyor conveyor = escalator / travelator incline = up / down / percentage (nothing for horizontal travelators) If required also something like: conveyor:direction = forward (default) / backward / on_demand Using a highway value is justified because applications that don't know about this kind of feature would use it wrong anyway (e.g. route in the wrong direction). Would that solution work? Tobias Knerr Sounds good to me I was not trying to get discussion and work out what was right and could only find something flaky on the wiki Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - incline up down
2009/8/22 John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com: --- On Sun, 23/8/09, Morten Kjeldgaard m...@bioxray.au.dk wrote: I realize it wont be possible to compute elevation gradients tomorrow, but why not plan ahead? Who would've thought a few years ago that the project would be so far advanced? Wouldn't you rather have nodes on a way with incline=7% than incline=up? Wouldn't it be better to get this data from a database lookup than from manual tagging? I doubt anyone is disagreeing, however up/down is like tagging highway=road, it's just a rough reference. I'm tempted to say gradient needs tagging, this can often be got off road signs. but I don't see why we can't tag any way with a gradient. This is also needed for steps and escalators. The issue is that it can't really be derived from elevation data as ways often go at an angle (to reduce gradient) or are built out from the land on man made structures. Some bridges my cause an incline which may need taging, ie hump backed bridges. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - miniature railway
2009/8/19 John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com: --- On Wed, 19/8/09, Peter Childs pchi...@bcs.org wrote: Are Miniture Railways a British Thing, or is it that they appear most often in the Uk? (Making us Brits a load of Train enthusiasts) There seems to be a number of them around Australia as well, some have a lot of track, eg 4km of 5 and 7.25 track at Casino, NSW. http://www.casinominirail.com/ Ok, Its a Uk Bias on Wikipedia. I think the issue here is that Gauge and Width are different, Width Being the width of the trains, tunnels, or with of the railway and Gauge being the distance between the wheels Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - miniature railway
2009/8/16 John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com: --- On Sun, 16/8/09, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: I'd recommend synchronising this with wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miniature_railway A lot of work has been done there between the various types of model/miniature railway, and that page has a fairly comprehensive list of 'ridable' miniature railways. Separate form narrow gauge which tend to be 'full size' Some of those border on light rail or narrow gauge, looking at some of the photos it looks like regular railway track. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/Bure_Valley_Railway_DSC00533.jpg Compared to something like this: http://scrms.org.au/files/IMGP5229.JPG Looking at this (and I know of two Miniture Railways one is 9 (Strood, Gillingham, Kent, Uk) and the other 3.5/5.5 (Mote Park, Maidstone, Kent, Uk) Tagging Railway=miniture makes sence (in both cases) but they are quite different animals. I think we should tag the Gauge (Possibly in all cases) and assume Standard Railway Gauge if not tagged. I think a Gauge=width (in mm I guess) is worth adding. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - miniature railway
2009/8/18 Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com: On 18 Aug 2009, at 17:47, Peter Childs wrote: 2009/8/16 John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com: --- On Sun, 16/8/09, Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk wrote: I'd recommend synchronising this with wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miniature_railway A lot of work has been done there between the various types of model/miniature railway, and that page has a fairly comprehensive list of 'ridable' miniature railways. Separate form narrow gauge which tend to be 'full size' Some of those border on light rail or narrow gauge, looking at some of the photos it looks like regular railway track. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/Bure_Valley_Railway_DSC00533.jpg Compared to something like this: http://scrms.org.au/files/IMGP5229.JPG Looking at this (and I know of two Miniture Railways one is 9 (Strood, Gillingham, Kent, Uk) and the other 3.5/5.5 (Mote Park, Maidstone, Kent, Uk) Tagging Railway=miniture makes sence (in both cases) but they are quite different animals. I think we should tag the Gauge (Possibly in all cases) and assume Standard Railway Gauge if not tagged. I think a Gauge=width (in mm I guess) is worth adding. Do check out the recent comments on the railways wiki page re gauge http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Railways Good Point, I've not marked them yet, so I can easily metricate that 0.2286 and 0.0889/0.1397 however I think tagging the unit might be better in this case (for the same reason as tagging max speed). My main problem is the one at mote park has 3 rails rails 1 and 2 are for 3.5inch gauge trains and 1 and 3 are for 5.5 gauge trains (where rails are numbered 1,2,3) The one at the Strand is 61 years old and is larger than the standard documented on the wikipedia. Are Miniture Railways a British Thing, or is it that they appear most often in the Uk? (Making us Brits a load of Train enthusiasts) Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] conditions as part of value/key
2009/8/8 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com: maxspeed:vehicle:weather = hgv;wet;value1|motorcycle;wet;value2 Actually that's quite readable... We already use the : format for translations, so why don't use it for time periods and the weather. Make sence to me. Very useful for parking restrictions as well. I'm guessing that no colon is the default, then : are the exception. but then thats already in use with name ie name = local default name name:en = english name name:de = german name name:ice = name when ice around? name:ice:de = name when ice around in german? Not very likly but some things do gain new names due to the time of year or weather, (Say you want to tag santa's grotto (in a shopping pretict when in use) Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] Progress on estimating coverage
2009/8/10 Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.com: It's good to see continuing progress with English boundaries. I have added Leicestershire council and Plymouth UA to the English Boundaries page. However... I can't find find an administrative boundaries for Derbyshire County Council or for Staffordshire County Council. There are ceremonial versions of these which you might still be using instead. Thanks of all your work on this Peter. I am now offended that Suffolk is only light green! I guess I will have to do something about it, but that is the point. Anyone fancy mapping Suffolk? There are some lovely towns that need work. Looks like I'm going to have to get Medway finished, its one of the few Pale Green areas in the South East :) Whats been used for the Medway UA boundary I know its not on the map entirely yet. It looks like may of the places with high coverage may have been traced from yahoo and may not have as good map coverage as would be nice, ie loads of Street without names etc. Hence place with a high coverage may still need a lot more work. Peter. One small suggestion - you might like to use a 'thermal' colour range; currently I am not able to guess which colour is associated with the highest coverage and the lowest etc. Feel free to use colours used by OSM Mapper in the 'thermal' range if that is useful. Regards, Peter Miller ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Liam123 again
2009/8/8 Dave Stubbs osm.l...@randomjunk.co.uk: On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 4:34 AM, Jeffrey Martindogs...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe we want different policies for different areas and different kinds of data. For example once all the roads are mapped we freeze the roads, but we allow free changing of street names until they reach a freeze point. Here in Korea I just want data and the more the better. In downtown London I would assume all the roads can be frozen except for major construction. That would be a very bad assumption, as every single one of our continuing London mapping parties shows. I'm constantly moving and renaming roads as the data we get becomes more precise. Nevermind the more technical issues such as adding and connecting roads to existing roads, or foot paths, or cyclepaths, or any of the other stuff which might not be considered mapping the roads but still requires editing them. Dave I'm wondering whether some kind of Checking and Verification could be done. ie A Live edit map that it what new edits go into, then a checked map that people can say yes I agree that is what is there, Anybody can sign any edit off just not there own... Of course this causes problems with areas where nobody else goes But we should be able to join the two maps together with some kind of overlay. If someone is adding footpaths etc they should not be moving major roads very far. We could even let people sign there own edits with the GPS trail it came from, and hence see that someone went there and saw it. Rather than just made it up. So its either checked by the GPS or by another mapper. Peter ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[Talk-GB] Sand Bar
How to I tag a Sand Bar that extends 50meters in the sea at low tide and disappears at High Tide. Its called The Street and its in Tankerton, Kent. Uk http://www.openstreetmap.org/?minlon=0.2519539minlat=51.2615685maxlon=0.6075064maxlat=51.5630983box=yes There is also a life guard station that I've put on the map. I'm not sure I've got it right as its not rendering currently. I feel sure that it should be. Is there some way to place brake waters, onto the map, (ie wooden structures that stop the sand/pebbles moving down the beech) Its just I can't find anything on the wiki. Peter. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Clearance
2009/7/30 Gervase Markham gerv-gm...@gerv.net: On 30/07/09 09:26, Aun Johnsen (via Webmail) wrote: much more. Since many countries have two different signs for max legal height and max physical height, and its usages can be very different, why not allow this in tags? Can you provide sample images for such signs? I confess I find it hard to believe. The maxheight for a feature such as a bridge is the maximum height of an object of the standard type that will fit under it. So for a road bridge, it would be a bus or truck of the normal 1-lane width. That's the thing people are interested in. If there's a sign which says the max physical height of a truck you can get under this bridge is 11 feet, but legally the max height for this bridge is 12 feet, how is the second piece of information useful in any way? For unicyclists? I guess this means that its a humped bridge where you can get a 12foot vehicle under it in the center but its only 11ft each side. Usually combined with On Coming Vehicles in Centre of Road Signs.. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] Adding unofficial cycle routes
2009/7/27 Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com: On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 4:04 PM, John McKerrellj...@mckerrell.net wrote: How about a bus route? Though there's bus stops along the way there's no arrows or anything like that saying bus route goes this way. Not trying to be difficult, just wondering. I can verify which way the number 37 bus goes approximately 60 times a day more often than I can verify where the high tide line is :-) I like to think of the scenario where if two OSMers disagree could a third member join them both at the place in question and arbitrate. With bus routes that's possible. With unofficial cycle routes, that's often not. I'm not saying that *only* information verifiable on-the-ground is acceptable, but it certainly a strong indicator that it's acceptable. And for some reason, the third person is always Andy Robinson in my mind. Curious. Cheers, Andy Now for a silly point. County and Borough Boundaries do are not on the ground, and yet we still want them? Ok you might find the odd road sign, saying Frinsbury Extra or Welcome to Kent but I certainly have not worked out a good way of verify them all on the ground, yet. They all seam to come from some copyrighted source or another. They also like Bus routes have this amazing trouble of moving. Yet we go to some real trouble to get them in the database.. Peter. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Adding unofficial cycle routes
2009/7/27 John McKerrell j...@mckerrell.net: On 27 Jul 2009, at 15:02, Jonathan Bennett wrote: Furthermore, unless the group has based its maps on OSM in the first place, the chances are there will be a derived data problem -- who owns the original mapping the routes were plotted against? If there are signposts on the route, fair enough. If not, our only source of data is a copyright publication. I'm guessing this part of it wouldn't matter as you're not deriving lat/lons from a map, you're saying this route goes down Church Road which is way 3423 in OSM, then Station Road which is way 353234 in OSM, etc.. Copyright issues from the group would obviously still count, unless he's got permission of course. John What I think we're saying is; we don't want things on the map that are not actually there on the ground. either via Signs or Real Things. So a Route route round a country park marked with Purple Arrows can be marked. But a Route on a leaflet, notice board (or website) can't be. If you wish to put your own routes on a Blog etc then fine but don't add them to OSM. Unless you put markers on the ground that others can see. Peter. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] Dartford Mapping Party
2009/7/23 Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk: I'm tempted to say it is a bit late in the day. This is the downside of planning a party a few months in advance, i.e. the risk of a lot of mapping being done prior to the event. I prefer morning meetups that are near to stations, as some people usually get there by train and bike. Bluewater is in the quite far from a station for those arriving by train. I'm happy to cycle the 30 mins out from Dartford out East to the mapping area. Actually I tend to agree, Its just Coming in from Medway says to me that Central Dartford is quite a long way in the wrong direction, when most of the stuff to be mapped is closer.. Peter Childs ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] Tests in the Antarctica?
2009/7/20 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: Does anyone know if these are real-world representations or just spam? http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-66.662lon=50.799zoom=11layers=B000FTF cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk Its spam, I think a Secondary Road with the name of Test, with 3 Tertiaries and 2 Railway Lines crossing at 90 degrees some on bridges some not, In Antarctica, edited by someone called Polar Bear kind of gives the game away, I'm not sure you get that many trains in Antarctica and why would they call it Test... (If it was not one) Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[Talk-GB] Chatham Town Centre
If anyone happens to be in Chatham, it needs remapping (again), they have removed a major flyover and are looking and further work. Not sure how much data we can extract from Medway's website, http://www.medway.gov.uk/index/business/medwayrenaissance/chathamfuture.htm without copyright issues. Or if we can get any more details from Medway Council without hitting the good old OS issues. Currently I've just deleted the flyover which has been knocked down, but I think we need some more ground work done. Peter. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Residential home
2009/7/17 John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com: --- On Fri, 17/7/09, Birgit Huesken birgit.hues...@web.de wrote: There are places where people, who for different reasons can't stay alone or in their families, live. The idea is to create a What you are describing is normally known (at least here) as shelters. For homeless people and domestic violence victims etc. Yes and Retirement Homes/Old People Homes, Homes for the Disabled. etc etc. Maybe we need a tag for Day Care, and Drop in Centre as well. A Shelter is a type of Residential Home, not all Residential Home will be Shelters. Peter Childs ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] access=destination valid only in one direction
2009/7/10 Stanislav Brabec u...@penguin.cz: Hallo. Is there a way how to map a street with access=destination valid just only for one direction? In the reverse direction it is a standard drive through street. http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/30764132 The standard way to do this is with a second parallel way tagged accordingly, Like a dual carriageway. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Mapping party suggestion for SOTM
2009/7/9 Cartinus carti...@xs4all.nl: On Thursday 09 July 2009 02:52:04 Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason wrote: Only to find to my disappointment that not only did the map of Amsterdam not have an area (or even a POI!) for the Red Light district Main Problem I can see with mapping Red Light Districts is that the minute they are known they move on, or are closed down by the police. Its like trying to map Gang Areas, The people who know where they are, are unlikely to map them as this could but them at risk. Short of mapping the shoes hung over telegraph its not something you can map without insider knowledge. Of course it also puts the whole of the New International Train Station in London (Kings Cross) in a Red Light District.. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] A possible way to promote OSM
2009/7/9 John Smith delta_foxt...@yahoo.com: Tracing rivers and such on OSM gave me an idea for a possible way to promote OSM, geography students. I mean what better way to teach kids about geography than doing a little cartography :) Back when I was at School, If I could have done a GCSE or A-Level in Cartography I would have done. Its a much under taught subject. It either needs to be taught as a Subject in its own right or as Part of Technical Drawing, Its not that it can't be included as part of Geography its just there is more than enough material for a separate subject and its much ignored. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Launching bestofosm.org
2009/7/7 Martijn van Exel mve...@gmail.com: Great! Very useful for presentations and workshops as well. Love it. How about zoos? * Antwerp http://osm.org/go/0EpZNzMEN- * Berlin http://osm.org/go/0MZu8WGXg- * Amsterdam http://osm.org/go/0...@61hts- There's bound to be more micromapped zoos! Question is do there zoos know about these maps, They seam a lot better than many maps you see when you visit them. I think that something above zoom level 18 may be needed here. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] Tooting Bec Lido
2009/7/3 Mike osm-talk...@norgie.net: Folks, Just looking at Tooting Bec Lido on the Map. I see that the site is marked as a lesure area. I was wondering if it was also appropriate to map the pool as it's outside and if so, how one would tag it? Mike. This is not that easy, Tag it nature=water would turn it blue like a lake but I think that might be tagging for the renderer which is not such a good idea. Maybe landuse would be better. Maybe you should tag the depth as well. so we know where the deep end is. There is no reason why the actual pool at indoor pools can not be tagged. After all we tag shops in shopping precincts etc. It can be quite useful to know the size of pool and the existence of water slides etc when looking for a swimming pool. Peter. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-GB] [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Railway route relations
Forgive me for asking. How does the Route Code relate to the number on the front of the Train. eg Charing Cross to Gillingham via Lewisham has a 62 on the front but if it goes via Greenwich its 85 (I think) Does the number on the front of the time-table mean anything? Oh and the Routes listed on the Wiki do not seam to bare any resemblance to what the operators tell you. ie North Kent Line to most people is all lines that go from London to Gillingham via Dartford, ie Via Sidcup (Darford Loop, Bexleyheath, and Woolwich and also includes the Victoria to Dartford via Lewisham service ie all trains in South Eastern Time Table 5. I'm also thinking that we have two sets of operators ie Network Rail and the Franchise Operators, and if we are tagging with the Franchise Operators maybe we should use the name of the franchise rather than the current holder. Or What? Peter. (Slightly confused) ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [OSM-talk] Adding OpenStreetMap map into wordpress.com post
2009/6/25 Ivan Garcia capisc...@gmail.com: Hi, thks for the answers, but wordpress.org does not allow to install 3rd party plugins into their online hosting blogs, and the solution of an static image is a bit limited cause then user won't be able to drag the map or zoom out to see the roads access, etc. Some tricky suggestion? Not sure what you want without using a 3rd Party Plugin even with Google. You can use OSM maps with the Google API if you wish. You could try and plug-in Open Layers or Cloudmade maps I'm trying to something similar with Drupal currently, I'm currently thinking of calling Cloudmade API with a Drupal/Php front end, which does not look do difficult. But Still need to write a plugin. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-GB] Counties and coasts
2009/6/22 Ed Loach e...@loach.me.uk: The Essex one I traced from the dotted line on NPE. I'm not sure about 12 miles for county boundaries - I don't think Essex would want to have to maintain it's own navy to repel Suffolk encroachers for example. Having said that, I think I read somewhere that UK beaches below the high water mark are Crown property, so perhaps the county councils just look after them for the Queen? Yes but what about the pier (which sticks into the sea) and is therefore below the high water mark, Full of shops and licensed premises. If Essex is worried about invasion from Sussex, We'll send a force in from Kent. Peter. ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
[OSM-talk] North Pole
Why is the North Pole at 0,0? http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=0lon=0zoom=16layers=000BFTF and why at higher zoom levels does it appear as a Car Park. I can't see any data but it seams to appear in all the different renderer s. Last Time I checked you could not park your car in the middle of the Atlantic. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Move the Map
2009/6/17 Eric Wolf ebw...@gmail.com: It's just the Brits trying to re-establish their imperial dominance over the world. On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk wrote: On 17 Jun 2009, at 18:17, Joe Richards wrote: One of the main annoyances that people tell me that they have with OSM is that whenever they visit the site, the map shows them just the UK. I checked it (from other random computers, not my laptop) when I was in Thailand and Australia and it always showed the UK. Is the UK the default if IP resolution fails? It will default to the following if nothing else works (from url, cookie, user home location, session cookie, and GeoIP) http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.1lon=-0.1zoom=5 The code of the algorithm is at http://trac.openstreetmap.org/browser/sites/rails_port/app/views/site/index.html.erb#L55 Shaun Maybe http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=0lon=-0zoom=2 would be more diplomatic, but then we should be using a map that did not make the Uk, India, Brazil and New Zealand all the same size. We should at least have the option of which projection is used, maybe some kind of menu. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map_projection Peter ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
