On 11/02/17 08:20, Tomas Straupis wrote:
What was the reason NOT to use vector tiles?
As that would solve most of the problems discussed in this thread.
They didn't exist in a usable form at the time (I think), and most
deployments are WebGL-based ("not a newish browser on a newish computer?
G
What was the reason NOT to use vector tiles?
As that would solve most of the problems discussed in this thread.
--
Tomas
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On 01.11.17 19:15, Elena ``of Valhalla'' wrote:
On 2017-11-01 at 14:28:12 +0100, Oleksiy Muzalyev wrote:
There is a code for the Lingua Latina (Latin language) in the ISO 639-1,
which is used at the OSM. It is "la" [1]. It is an ancient language so
modern political controversies would not be ref
2017-11-01 19:15 GMT+01:00 Elena ``of Valhalla'' :
>
> It may be a good neutral language between speakers of e.g. French and
> German
not even, as French is a romance language with very strong latin influence,
while German only has had some influence.
Cheers,
Martin
__
On Wed, Nov 01, 2017 at 01:58:32PM +, Andy Townsend wrote:
> The slightly more serious point that I was trying to make was that one map
> style can't do everything - if you want to see latin (script, not language)
> names there are options available for you to do that right now. I quite
> li
On 2017-11-01 at 14:28:12 +0100, Oleksiy Muzalyev wrote:
> There is a code for the Lingua Latina (Latin language) in the ISO 639-1,
> which is used at the OSM. It is "la" [1]. It is an ancient language so
> modern political controversies would not be reflected on it.
> [...]
This is the point wher
W dniu 01.11.2017 o 14:28, Oleksiy Muzalyev pisze:
A would-be future vector map, probably, is not a a good solution, as
it does not use the principle of precalculation. The Latin language
has been used for centuries in science (including geography and
cartography). Its popularity is growing no
On 01/11/2017 13:43, Pierre Béland wrote:
Nice, I often had problems while editing or validating in countries
with non latin alphabet. Will this be automaticly overlayed to the map
based on your language option ?
I was being facetious of course - it's just the "Transport" map as seen
at osm.o
W dniu 01.11.2017 o 14:36, Andy Townsend pisze:
On 01/11/2017 13:28, Oleksiy Muzalyev wrote:
Still, the OSM map remains unusable on the global scale. For
instance, I read an article about the new railroad North-South. I
wanted to see it on the OSM map but I could not even find Iran on the
map.
Nice, I often had problems while editing or validating in countries with non
latin alphabet. Will this be automaticly overlayed to the map based on your
language option ?
Pierre
Le mercredi 1 novembre 2017 09:38:15 HAE, Andy Townsend
a écrit :
On 01/11/2017 13:28, Oleksiy Muzaly
On 01/11/2017 13:28, Oleksiy Muzalyev wrote:
Still, the OSM map remains unusable on the global scale. For instance,
I read an article about the new railroad North-South. I wanted to see
it on the OSM map but I could not even find Iran on the map.
Works for me:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#m
On 22.10.17 03:22, Matthijs Melissen wrote:
On 24 September 2017 at 23:01, Matthijs Melissen
wrote:
I would like to ask for your opinion on the choice of language used in
the Default map on openstreetmap.org.
Thank you all for your contributions to the discussion. It seems that
the current cho
On 24 September 2017 at 23:01, Matthijs Melissen
wrote:
> I would like to ask for your opinion on the choice of language used in
> the Default map on openstreetmap.org.
Thank you all for your contributions to the discussion. It seems that
the current choice, rendering local names only, is the pre
+1
Until there is a (vector) map that allows you to change the preferred
language dynamically or match against a priority list of languages from
the user, the current principle of local language = display language is
simply the best option.
On 2017년 09월 26일 23:00, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
On 26.09.17 23:00, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
for the record: using Latin would be the completely wrong message we
could send out IMHO. It would make us look like an elitist circle [1]
and would make many people feel rejected, or at least make them turn
away as soon as they get to know about it
sent from a phone
> On 26. Sep 2017, at 23:58, Andy Mabbett wrote:
>
> Wherever I go in the world, I try to make some improvements to OSM. Am
> I then a local mapper? In Jakarta, Doha, Cairo, Larnaca, Istanbul, or
> Warsaw?
IMHO you are a local mapper in places that you know very well, eithe
On 25 September 2017 at 07:14, Jo wrote:
> The purpose of the default rendering is to give feedback to mappers.
I'd love to see some stats on how many people visit that map, and their reasons.
Fancy a wager on the percentage that are mappers?
What about people who have no interest in becoming
W dniu 26.09.2017 o 23:00, Martin Koppenhoefer pisze:
for the record: using Latin would be the completely wrong message we
could send out IMHO. It would make us look like an elitist circle [1]
and would make many people feel rejected, or at least make them turn
away as soon as they get to know
for the record: using Latin would be the completely wrong message we could
send out IMHO. It would make us look like an elitist circle [1] and would
make many people feel rejected, or at least make them turn away as soon as
they get to know about it.
Cheers,
Martin
[1] sometimes you already can
2017-09-26 6:00 GMT+02:00 Oleksiy Muzalyev :
> But the Latin language does exist, and its popularity is growing [1].
>
see, they also mention Greek ;-)
Cheers,
Martin
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>That sounds like an argument against any incremental improvement ever
imho: the risk Identification is an important design step. [
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk_management ]
And reducing risks is another step.
2017-09-25 16:34 GMT+02:00 Nicolás Alvarez :
>
> El 25 sept 2017, a las 10:54
On 26.09.17 01:30, John F. Eldredge wrote:
People are confusing labels using the Latin alphabet with labels using
the Latin language.
Certainly, the Latin alphabet is more known as it is used in many modern
languages. But the Latin language does exist, and its popularity is
growing [1].
S
OSMAND+ already uses a vector-based system to render OSM-data-based maps,
and has been doing so for some time. So, the technology already exists.
On September 25, 2017 6:22:59 AM Richard Fairhurst
wrote:
Frederik Ramm wrote:
I'd invest the available brainpower in steps needed to achieve
t
People are confusing labels using the Latin alphabet with labels using the
Latin language.
On September 25, 2017 8:56:04 AM Oleksiy Muzalyev
wrote:
On 25.09.17 12:59, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
2017-09-25 12:39 GMT+02:00 Oleksiy Muzalyev
mailto:oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch>>:
The La
W dniu 25.09.2017 o 13:15, Maarten Deen pisze:
Of course this is impractical in the UI in the current way of
selecting layers (where each layer has its own check box to enable
it), I was more thinking in the line of having a dropdown box for all
language overlays. No idea if this is currently p
On 25.09.17 16:19, Andy Townsend wrote:
On 25/09/2017 14:53, Oleksiy Muzalyev wrote:
If not Latin, then why English? Why not French?
Well _obviously_ the answer is Esperanto. There are a few Esperanto
enthusiasts adding names to OSM (see e.g.
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/name%3Aeo
> El 25 sept 2017, a las 10:54, Imre Samu escribió:.
>
> What about the other alternatives?
>
> for example:
> - just adding ALL (official[1]) dual languages for only Z0-Z8 level, and
> keeping the current design for Z9-Z19
>
> so there will be (z0-z8)
> - local + english
> - local + chines
Mi ankaŭ proponas ke ni uzos esperanto! :-)
2017-09-25 16:19 GMT+02:00 Andy Townsend :
> On 25/09/2017 14:53, Oleksiy Muzalyev wrote:
>
>>
>> If not Latin, then why English? Why not French?
>>
>> Well _obviously_ the answer is Esperanto. There are a few Esperanto
> enthusiasts adding names to OS
And now we're talking about years of work. The original post to this thread
already said making multiple versions is technically hard and out of scope.
> El 25 sept 2017, a las 07:39, James escribió:
>
> That's why you could have text rendered via JavaScript and not in the JPG
> itself
>
On 25/09/2017 14:53, Oleksiy Muzalyev wrote:
If not Latin, then why English? Why not French?
Well _obviously_ the answer is Esperanto. There are a few Esperanto
enthusiasts adding names to OSM (see e.g.
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/name%3Aeo and
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/1
>Yes, to re-iterate: my question is about things we can do now. Vector
>tiles are on the horizon, but are likely to take a year or more from
>now. Changing some of the labels is something we could do with one
>line of code and roll out tomorrow, if we wanted to.
What about the other alternatives?
On 25.09.17 12:59, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
2017-09-25 12:39 GMT+02:00 Oleksiy Muzalyev
mailto:oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch>>:
The Latin language itself has been for centuries the language of
science, and it remains the language of scientific classification.
For example, Isaac N
Hi,
On 25.09.2017 13:48, Matthijs Melissen wrote:
> Changing some of the labels is something we could do with one
> line of code and roll out tomorrow, if we wanted to.
Yes. Don't.
Bye
Frederik
--
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On 25 September 2017 at 13:21, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
> Frederik Ramm wrote:
>> I'd invest the available brainpower in steps needed to achieve
>> this goal, even if it's a year or two in the future.
>
> Which means vector tiles... which we should be looking at anyway.
>
> But that needs to be a
On Monday 25 September 2017, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
> > I'd invest the available brainpower in steps needed to achieve
> > this goal, even if it's a year or two in the future.
>
> Which means vector tiles... which we should be looking at anyway.
>
> But that needs to be a separate project really,
Frederik Ramm wrote:
> I'd invest the available brainpower in steps needed to achieve
> this goal, even if it's a year or two in the future.
Which means vector tiles... which we should be looking at anyway.
But that needs to be a separate project really, rather than a facet of
openstreetmap-cart
Of course this is impractical in the UI in the current way of selecting
layers (where each layer has its own check box to enable it), I was more
thinking in the line of having a dropdown box for all language overlays.
No idea if this is currently possible in openlayers.
Maarten
On 2017-09-25
On 25-Sep-17 07:49 PM, Christoph Hormann wrote:
On Monday 25 September 2017, Frederik Ramm wrote:
Oh, in case I wasn't clear - what I said above was not with irony;
indeed, for my personal use, I want a map that shows me names I can
read. Which, I assume, everyone does.
Yes, of course - we need
2017-09-25 12:39 GMT+02:00 Oleksiy Muzalyev :
> The Latin language itself has been for centuries the language of science,
> and it remains the language of scientific classification. For example,
> Isaac Newton wrote his breakthrough books in Latin.
>
Ancient Greek has been for centuries the lang
2017-09-25 12:37 GMT+02:00 Jo :
> 1000 - 7000 extra layers? That's give or take the number of languages in
> existence... depending on who you ask, but even adding 500 extra layers is
> not a practical endeavour.
>
maybe there are that many languages in the world, but there isn't
information in
Vector based rendering is just around the corner, I keep hearing.
2017-09-25 12:39 GMT+02:00 James :
> That's why you could have text rendered via JavaScript and not in the JPG
> itself
>
> On Sep 25, 2017 6:37 AM, "Jo" wrote:
>
>> 1000 - 7000 extra layers? That's give or take the number of
That's why you could have text rendered via JavaScript and not in the JPG
itself
On Sep 25, 2017 6:37 AM, "Jo" wrote:
> 1000 - 7000 extra layers? That's give or take the number of languages in
> existence... depending on who you ask, but even adding 500 extra layers is
> not a practical ende
I talked at a conference to a man from UK who, as I understood,
participates in the hardware work on the OSM servers. I was told that
multiple layers require too much additional work to be handled by
volunteers and also additional hardware&software. That it is not
feasible with the current stat
1000 - 7000 extra layers? That's give or take the number of languages in
existence... depending on who you ask, but even adding 500 extra layers is
not a practical endeavour.
2017-09-25 12:15 GMT+02:00 James :
> I think Latin as default is disrespectful to areas like Japan which might
> not be ab
For the default map having local names everywhere is a strong statement.
The current status is fine (where scripts for the language are supported by
the fonts used in rendering).
Having transliterated / localized versions should only be an optional, if
ressources allow for it. Mixed versions (show
I think Latin as default is disrespectful to areas like Japan which might
not be able to read Latin letters as they have kana for non-japanese words.
It's a bit biased to ask if Latin should be the default on a Latin based
list(letters not language).I'm sure there would be a different opinion if
yo
On 9/24/2017 11:01 PM, Matthijs Melissen wrote:
[...]For example, we have a label 北京市 for Beijing, a label موريتانيا for
Mauritania, and a label Magyarország for Hungary.
The openstreetmap-carto team quite frequently receives requests to
(additionally) display labels in English (or in any case t
On Monday 25 September 2017, Frederik Ramm wrote:
>
> Oh, in case I wasn't clear - what I said above was not with irony;
> indeed, for my personal use, I want a map that shows me names I can
> read. Which, I assume, everyone does.
Yes, of course - we need to clearly differentiate between 'i want a
2017-09-25 9:37 GMT+02:00 Frederik Ramm :
> ideally I
> want a map with local names except where I can't read them ;)
>
>
>
+1.
And ideally I'd want a map that not only shows cities or countries with
transliterated names where needed, but everything (especially POIs like
historical things, museu
Christoph,
On 25.09.2017 10:55, Christoph Hormann wrote:
>> Also, personally I'm in a similar situation to Maarten. I'm from
>> Germany and I don't want a map with all German or all English names;
>> ideally I want a map with local names except where I can't read them
>> ;)
>
> While i understand
On Monday 25 September 2017, Frederik Ramm wrote:
>
> Also, personally I'm in a similar situation to Maarten. I'm from
> Germany and I don't want a map with all German or all English names;
> ideally I want a map with local names except where I can't read them
> ;)
While i understand this view and
Hi,
On 24.09.2017 23:01, Matthijs Melissen wrote:
> From an ideologic viewpoint, I am very much in favour of not giving
> preferential treatment to any particular language. Using the local
> language seems fair in this respect. On the other hand, from a
> pragmatic point of view I can also see tha
>
> And vice versa: I always wonder how usable a map in Latin alphabet is for
> Chinese or Russian speakers.
Cannot speak for Chinese, but in Russia, Latin alphabet was taught at the
very early age in school. I think that drawing a map with local names in
Latin font should not cause too many prob
On 2017-09-24 23:01, Matthijs Melissen wrote:
Hi all,
I would like to ask for your opinion on the choice of language used in
the Default map on openstreetmap.org.
This map (based on the openstreetmap-carto style) currently displays
all labels in their native language (as defined in the 'name' t
The purpose of the default rendering is to give feedback to mappers.
Preferably local mappers, so having the map rendered in local languages
shouldn't be a problem.
If you want to use OSM data as a tourist use OsmAND or MAPS.ME and set a
language of your choice.
If other projects need tiles for t
my 2 cents:
having a 2 layers map, one with local languages rendered, the second with
english ones when present as first choice, then local when not
Il 25 set 2017 7:14 AM, "Yves" ha scritto:
> If the OSMF tile servers were to be used to provide webmaps for a vast
> audience, I would understand
If the OSMF tile servers were to be used to provide webmaps for a vast
audience, I would understand double labeling in English.
That not the primary purpose, though.
Yves
Le 24 septembre 2017 23:01:00 GMT+02:00, Matthijs Melissen
a écrit :
>Hi all,
>
>I would like to ask for your opinion on
Hi all,
I would like to ask for your opinion on the choice of language used in
the Default map on openstreetmap.org.
This map (based on the openstreetmap-carto style) currently displays
all labels in their native language (as defined in the 'name' tag).
For example, we have a label 北京市 for Beijin
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