Re: [OSM-talk] Remote Sensing / DOP / DIY people

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Hi,

I just returned from test flights of the new design of the 
Do-It-Yourself (DIY) flying wing with the Kline-Fogleman modified, KFm2, 
airfoil. This time it is a twin engine puller, or tractor, 75 cm 
(approx. 30 inches) flying wing.


I've been working for quite a while on a DIY aerial platform. And this 
time I created, probably by chance, a really good design. It is easy to 
launch, very stable in the air, easy to land, and most importantly, - it 
is quiet while cruising at altitude.


I published a small report article with photos and a video at: 
http://ausleuchtung.ch/kfm2/kfm2-puller.php . In a short, 40 seconds, 
video it is seen that when it flies at an altitude of about 100 meters 
we cannot hear it.


The requirements which I try to achieve are the following:

- the cost of the airframe is about 5 USD
- the airframe could be built DIY in two-three hours completely
- excellent uncompromising flying characteristics
- capable of carrying a GoPro type camera
- only common motors and electronics, which could be scraped, being used
- the RC aircraft is quiet enough to be employed in urban areas
- fail safe, - in case of failure it does not drop, but glides 
gracefully to land

- could be transported on a bicycle or e-bike

For the fist time, I see that it is practically achievable.

The puller means that the engine is forward of the wing. The puller, or 
tractor, is much quieter than a pusher as the propellers work in 
undisturbed air.
The idea is to create an affordable open-source DIY design which could 
be used for mapping, aerial photography, journalism, surveys, etc. The 
patents for KFm airfoil expired in 90s. The KFm2 airfoil is incredibly 
easy to build, plus it has got excellent lifting characteristics.


Best regards,
Oleksiy



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Re: [OSM-talk] Remote Sensing / DOP / DIY people

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

I've built from scratch and tested an aircraft based on Kline-Fogleman 
modified KFm2 airfoil. It's wingspan is 75 cm (aprox. 30 inches). The 
cost of the airframe is less that 5 USD (a sheet of foam-board 2 USD, a 
stick of hot glue 50 cents, the packing tape 1 USD, two zip ties 20 
cents.).


Here is the link to a small article with photos and a video: 
http://ausleuchtung.ch/kfm2/ , which I wrote. This airframe is dead 
simple, it takes three-four hours to built, less if one did it before.


I scraped motor, two servos, receiver from a retired glider, but if 
bought new they would cost about 100 USD. However, these electronic 
devices are reusable and practically unbreakable.


Best regards,

Oleksiy


>Still cant beat ~50$ for a good kite pieces of string and a block of wood

On Fri, Jun 1, 2018, 4:19 AM Florian Lohoff,  wrote:

> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 11:12:49PM -0400, James wrote:
> > cheaper and simpler would be a kite and a picavet system. I was looking
> > into building a FPV, but just getting it to fly in a pattern gets
> expensive
> > quickly(even building from scratch)
>
> INav on a flight controller like the Omnibus F4 should be able to do
> that for you.
>
> Flo
> --
> Florian Lohoff f at zz.de
>  UTF-8 Test: The 🐈 ran after a 🐁, but the 🐁 ran away
>


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Re: [OSM-talk] Remote Sensing / DOP / DIY people

[oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch]

  

  
  

Hi Simon,
  
  The well known German company Lufthansa Technik offers different
  training courses in the domain of drones [1], including the excellent 
basic
  free online course (Kostenlose Basisschulung). After this course
  one may try to pass an online exam and receive a certificate. I
  passed this exam, and here is how this certificate looks like [2].
  
  There are certainly understandable limitations for unmanned
  aircraft usage for numerous good reasons. However, there are
  usually mechanisms of getting a permission for a certain flight
  mission. The authorities take into account the aircraft type,
  weight, characteristics, safety record, pilot's qualification,
  timing, purpose, etc. 
  What is important to realize is that by doing a work in the
  airspace one becomes an integral part of the aviation. And there
  are certain rules in the aviation which are to be studied and  followed.
If there is a serious organized approach, I do not think that it is 
impossible that a silent electric mapping glider with the weight of 1 or
 2 kilograms could be allowed to fly over urban areas at the altitude of
 about 100 meters early in the morning, from time to time.
  For those who know German language the Lufthansa Technik online
  training course would be a good starting point. I takes just
  several hours to complete.
  
  [1] https://www.safe-drone.com/de/
  [2]
https://drive.google.com/file/d/11H1J-uZ1Ym8CPq45W1-ZH9uxGlFtdjzo/view?usp=sharing
  
  Best regards,
  O.
  
  On 03.06.18 19:14, Simon Poole wrote:


  
  
  
  
  
Am 03.06.2018 um 12:14 schrieb
Florian Lohoff:
  
  

On Sat, Jun 02, 2018 at 12:03:04PM -0400, john whelan wrote:

  
I think one problem with drones is they need special permission or there
are rules about who and where they can be operated in many parts of the
world.  Some are capable of cm accuracy but does OpenStreetMap benefit from
this?


I'd explicitly exclude the legal aspects. Yes - Its complicated.
  
  Actually in Germany it is really simple from a legal pov: you
  can't fly (in a practical sense of the word) anywhere that is
  remotely interesting for OSM.
  
  Unluckily: no smilies.
  
  Simon
  
  

Its not the accuracy i am aiming for - in Germany at least in most areas
have pretty good Aerials. The problem is that those images are from the
public sector and it will take up to 5 years for them to be
accessible/available.
I am aiming for lower latency ;) You see a new development area and
it'll take up to 5 years to be able to add houses etc. So it would
be nice to take aerials every 6 Months of those areas and follow the
build up of new houses.
Flo




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Re: [OSM-talk] Remote Sensing / DOP / DIY people

[Simon Poole]

Am 03.06.2018 um 12:14 schrieb Florian Lohoff:
> On Sat, Jun 02, 2018 at 12:03:04PM -0400, john whelan wrote:
>> I think one problem with drones is they need special permission or there
>> are rules about who and where they can be operated in many parts of the
>> world.  Some are capable of cm accuracy but does OpenStreetMap benefit from
>> this?
> I'd explicitly exclude the legal aspects. Yes - Its complicated.
Actually in Germany it is really simple from a legal pov: you can't fly
(in a practical sense of the word) anywhere that is remotely interesting
for OSM.

Unluckily: no smilies.

Simon

>
> Its not the accuracy i am aiming for - in Germany at least in most areas
> have pretty good Aerials. The problem is that those images are from the
> public sector and it will take up to 5 years for them to be
> accessible/available.
>
> I am aiming for lower latency ;) You see a new development area and
> it'll take up to 5 years to be able to add houses etc. So it would
> be nice to take aerials every 6 Months of those areas and follow the
> build up of new houses.
>
> Flo
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Remote Sensing / DOP / DIY people

[James]

drones, at least in Canada are even more regulated. You must fly at least
76.2m away from any building(due to privacy concerns), but have a maximum
flight height of 90m. You cannot fly within 5.5km of an aerodrome and 1.8km
of a heliport.
If you are flying non-recreationally(would collecting orthophotos be
considered non-rec.?) you need a license to operate. With the license I
believe you need a 10$ liability coverage. Where as a kite, you dont.

https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/opssvs/flying-drone-safely-legally.html#tips

On Sun, Jun 3, 2018, 2:57 AM Simon Poole,  wrote:

>
>
> Am 02.06.2018 um 00:45 schrieb James:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kite_aerial_photography#Picavet_suspension
>
> When I was looking at RC planes, the one that could hold a quality
> camera+fly for for a relatively long time is the skywalker X8(~200$ USD) +
> batteries, controllers and motors(~200-250) which comes out to about 450$
> US.
>
> Where as a kite and a picavet costs about 50$ for a good kite and some
> scrap wood.
>
> Only advantage is a drone can be flown over houses, but kite doesnt have
> any "no fly zones" except maybe power lines
>
>
> People tend to not realize it, but kites tend to be quite heavily
> regulated too and, at least in the couple of countries for which I've
> looked at the regulation, are legally limited in ways that don't make them
> particularly attractive as a remote sensing platform (obviously some of the
> issues are the same as with UAVs so it is unlikely that the regulators
> would leave big open holes in their rules in other countries).
>
> Simon
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 1, 2018, 6:38 PM Pierre Béland,  wrote:
>
>> I dont know what is picavet. But I dont think thatKite, or balloon or
>> similar flying objects could cover rapidly and systematically a rectangular
>> area, be stabilized and produce images of quality.
>>
>> The fix wings are still expansive but can produce rapidly very precise
>> imageries and elevation models. It would be interesting to examine the
>> faisability to develop such a project including both hardware and open
>> source software.
>>
>>
>> Pierre
>>
>>
>> Le vendredi 1 juin 2018 17 h 39 min 06 s HAE, James 
>> a écrit :
>>
>>
>> cheaper and simpler would be a kite and a picavet system. I was looking
>> into building a FPV, but just getting it to fly in a pattern gets expensive
>> quickly(even building from scratch)
>>
>> On Thu, May 31, 2018, 9:01 PM Florian Lohoff,  wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>> is there a Mailinglist for the Technical aspects of DIY Remote Sensing
>> e.g. Aerial imaging?
>>
>> I am talking about Drone/Copter/Autonomous flying like Sensefly Ebee
>> and the like.
>>
>> As a lot of people are not capable of buying of the shelve equipment
>> like the Ebee it might be interesting to get people together with
>> their DIY projects. Autonomous Fixed Wings could be build in the range
>> of 300€ - But then IMHO the hard part starts.
>>
>> Camera, Georeferencing the GeoTIFFs, creating a WMS service to be
>> able to use them with Josm etc. Getting together an Open Source
>> toolchain, docker containers, howtos etc
>>
>>
>> Here is a (German) walk through in building a FPV Wing. We wouldnt need
>> the FPV parts and this size is most likely not capable of carrying a
>> camera but its a start.
>>
>> https://blog.seidel-philipp.de/fpv-wing-aus-kopter-teilen-bauen-mit-inav/
>>
>>
>> For somebody who has dealt with electronics in the past its Buildable
>> but i am having a hard time getting it actually to fly.
>>
>> Flo
>> --
>> Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de
>>  UTF-8 Test: The 🐈 ran after a 🐁, but the 🐁 ran away
>> ___
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>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
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>>
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>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Remote Sensing / DOP / DIY people

[Florian Lohoff]

On Sat, Jun 02, 2018 at 12:03:04PM -0400, john whelan wrote:
> I think one problem with drones is they need special permission or there
> are rules about who and where they can be operated in many parts of the
> world.  Some are capable of cm accuracy but does OpenStreetMap benefit from
> this?

I'd explicitly exclude the legal aspects. Yes - Its complicated.

Its not the accuracy i am aiming for - in Germany at least in most areas
have pretty good Aerials. The problem is that those images are from the
public sector and it will take up to 5 years for them to be
accessible/available.

I am aiming for lower latency ;) You see a new development area and
it'll take up to 5 years to be able to add houses etc. So it would
be nice to take aerials every 6 Months of those areas and follow the
build up of new houses.

Flo
-- 
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 UTF-8 Test: The 🐈 ran after a 🐁, but the 🐁 ran away


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Re: [OSM-talk] Remote Sensing / DOP / DIY people

[Simon Poole]

Am 02.06.2018 um 00:45 schrieb James:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kite_aerial_photography#Picavet_suspension
>
> When I was looking at RC planes, the one that could hold a quality
> camera+fly for for a relatively long time is the skywalker X8(~200$
> USD) + batteries, controllers and motors(~200-250) which comes out to
> about 450$ US.
>
> Where as a kite and a picavet costs about 50$ for a good kite and some
> scrap wood. 
>
> Only advantage is a drone can be flown over houses, but kite doesnt
> have any "no fly zones" except maybe power lines

People tend to not realize it, but kites tend to be quite heavily
regulated too and, at least in the couple of countries for which I've
looked at the regulation, are legally limited in ways that don't make
them particularly attractive as a remote sensing platform (obviously
some of the issues are the same as with UAVs so it is unlikely that the
regulators would leave big open holes in their rules in other countries).

Simon

>
> On Fri, Jun 1, 2018, 6:38 PM Pierre Béland,  > wrote:
>
> I dont know what is picavet. But I dont think thatKite, or balloon
> or similar flying objects could cover rapidly and systematically a
> rectangular area, be stabilized and produce images of quality.
>
> The fix wings are still expansive but can produce rapidly very
> precise imageries and elevation models. It would be interesting to
> examine the faisability to develop such a project including both
> hardware and open source software.
>
>  
> Pierre
>
>
> Le vendredi 1 juin 2018 17 h 39 min 06 s HAE, James
> mailto:james2...@gmail.com>> a écrit :
>
>
> cheaper and simpler would be a kite and a picavet system. I was
> looking into building a FPV, but just getting it to fly in a
> pattern gets expensive quickly(even building from scratch)
>
> On Thu, May 31, 2018, 9:01 PM Florian Lohoff,  > wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
> is there a Mailinglist for the Technical aspects of DIY Remote
> Sensing
> e.g. Aerial imaging?
>
> I am talking about Drone/Copter/Autonomous flying like
> Sensefly Ebee
> and the like.
>
> As a lot of people are not capable of buying of the shelve
> equipment
> like the Ebee it might be interesting to get people together with
> their DIY projects. Autonomous Fixed Wings could be build in
> the range
> of 300€ - But then IMHO the hard part starts.
>
> Camera, Georeferencing the GeoTIFFs, creating a WMS service to be
> able to use them with Josm etc. Getting together an Open Source
> toolchain, docker containers, howtos etc
>
>
> Here is a (German) walk through in building a FPV Wing. We
> wouldnt need
> the FPV parts and this size is most likely not capable of
> carrying a
> camera but its a start.
>
> 
> https://blog.seidel-philipp.de/fpv-wing-aus-kopter-teilen-bauen-mit-inav/
>
>
> For somebody who has dealt with electronics in the past its
> Buildable
> but i am having a hard time getting it actually to fly.
>
> Flo
> -- 
> Florian Lohoff                                               
>  f...@zz.de 
>              UTF-8 Test: The 🐈 ran after a 🐁, but the 🐁 ran
> away
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> talk@openstreetmap.org 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>
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>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Remote Sensing / DOP / DIY people

[john whelan]

I think one problem with drones is they need special permission or there
are rules about who and where they can be operated in many parts of the
world.  Some are capable of cm accuracy but does OpenStreetMap benefit from
this?

Cheerio John

On 1 June 2018 at 05:26, James  wrote:

> Still cant beat ~50$ for a good kite pieces of string and a block of wood
>
> On Fri, Jun 1, 2018, 4:19 AM Florian Lohoff,  wrote:
>
>> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 11:12:49PM -0400, James wrote:
>> > cheaper and simpler would be a kite and a picavet system. I was looking
>> > into building a FPV, but just getting it to fly in a pattern gets
>> expensive
>> > quickly(even building from scratch)
>>
>> INav on a flight controller like the Omnibus F4 should be able to do
>> that for you.
>>
>> Flo
>> --
>> Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de
>>  UTF-8 Test: The 🐈 ran after a 🐁, but the 🐁 ran away
>>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Remote Sensing / DOP / DIY people

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Hi Florian,

Here is the photo [1] of my DIY Tiny Trainer RC airplane, which I built 
from the FliteTest speed build kit [2]. This is the 4 channel plane 
(ailerons, elevator, rudder, throttle). It flies surprisingly well. 
Actually, it can even perform basic aerobatics.


At the store page there is a video which shows detailed build. Josh 
Bixler explains in this video each step very well.


It took me about 4 hours to build it (mostly watching video).  The only 
special equipment required is the z-bend pliers, easily available at any 
RC shop. Building involves the usage of the hot glue gun and cutter 
knife (which could be extremely dangerous if not used correctly).


These speed kits are a good way to learn the grand ideas and detailed 
technics of building an aircraft, especially for someone who never built 
one. After building from a speed build kit it would be much easier to 
build from scratch.


The airframe itself costs 25.- USD, and the power-pack (engine, ESC, 4 
servos, propeller, cables) pack costs 52 USD. The power-pack can be 
later reused for other projects.


As for a newbie to learn piloting without an autopilot I would recommend 
the RealFlight simulator [3]. It is also quite helpful for advanced 
pilots to learn maneuvers which in the physical world may inadvertently 
destroy an expensive aircraft.


[1] 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-yo05crBfbd64wYGhkJEgeWtjPVPV-GX/view?usp=sharing

[2] https://store.flitetest.com/mighty-mini-tiny-trainer-speed-build-kit/
[3] https://www.realflight.com/

With best regards,
O.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Remote Sensing / DOP / DIY people

[Blake Girardot]

Hi Florian,

For building and getting things flying correctly, I would suggest
http://rcgroups.com That site has very experienced people in Remote
Control aircraft, multi-rotor, fixed wing, flying wing etc. Look for
the sections that say "scratchbuilt" as those are the Do It Yourself
forums.

For anything you have built and are having issues with, they can
usually help you get working correctly.

They probably have some remote sensing sections or topics by now as
well (a quick search shows about 600 posts with LiDAR in them), FPV
has been a topic there for at least 10 years.

As to the stiching, georeferencing and WMS, http://opendronemap.org/
and http://openaerialmap.org/ I think cover all of that.

Cheers,
blake


On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 6:48 PM, Florian Lohoff  wrote:
>
> Hi,
> is there a Mailinglist for the Technical aspects of DIY Remote Sensing
> e.g. Aerial imaging?
>
> I am talking about Drone/Copter/Autonomous flying like Sensefly Ebee
> and the like.
>
> As a lot of people are not capable of buying of the shelve equipment
> like the Ebee it might be interesting to get people together with
> their DIY projects. Autonomous Fixed Wings could be build in the range
> of 300€ - But then IMHO the hard part starts.
>
> Camera, Georeferencing the GeoTIFFs, creating a WMS service to be
> able to use them with Josm etc. Getting together an Open Source
> toolchain, docker containers, howtos etc
>
>
> Here is a (German) walk through in building a FPV Wing. We wouldnt need
> the FPV parts and this size is most likely not capable of carrying a
> camera but its a start.
>
> https://blog.seidel-philipp.de/fpv-wing-aus-kopter-teilen-bauen-mit-inav/
>
>
> For somebody who has dealt with electronics in the past its Buildable
> but i am having a hard time getting it actually to fly.
>
> Flo
> --
> Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de
>  UTF-8 Test: The 🐈 ran after a 🐁, but the 🐁 ran away
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>



-- 

Blake Girardot
OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
skype: jblakegirardot

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Re: [OSM-talk] Remote Sensing / DOP / DIY people

[Florian Lohoff]

On Fri, Jun 01, 2018 at 10:38:01PM +, Pierre Béland wrote:
> I dont know what is picavet. But I dont think thatKite, or balloon or
> similar flying objects could cover rapidly and systematically a
> rectangular area, be stabilized and produce images of quality.
> 
> The fix wings are still expansive but can produce rapidly very precise
> imageries and elevation models. It would be interesting to examine the
> faisability to develop such a project including both hardware and open
> source software.

From my estimated the cost is around 300€ starting from zero. Plus a Camera
with something like CHDK - Given that you crash your first experiments
it gets a little more expensive. 

Thats for the flying gear.

I am now more interested in stuff like which camera, focal length,
stride width, aperture, resolution on ground, stitching the images or
georeferencing the individual images. Producing the geotiffs, creating a
WMS server etc.

I have some software tools up in my head like Hugin (Image stitching and
lense correction), QGis for Georeferencing the images although the stuff
i saw is pretty complicated.

Flo
-- 
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 UTF-8 Test: The 🐈 ran after a 🐁, but the 🐁 ran away


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Re: [OSM-talk] Remote Sensing / DOP / DIY people

[James]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kite_aerial_photography#Picavet_suspension

When I was looking at RC planes, the one that could hold a quality
camera+fly for for a relatively long time is the skywalker X8(~200$ USD) +
batteries, controllers and motors(~200-250) which comes out to about 450$
US.

Where as a kite and a picavet costs about 50$ for a good kite and some
scrap wood.

Only advantage is a drone can be flown over houses, but kite doesnt have
any "no fly zones" except maybe power lines

On Fri, Jun 1, 2018, 6:38 PM Pierre Béland,  wrote:

> I dont know what is picavet. But I dont think thatKite, or balloon or
> similar flying objects could cover rapidly and systematically a rectangular
> area, be stabilized and produce images of quality.
>
> The fix wings are still expansive but can produce rapidly very precise
> imageries and elevation models. It would be interesting to examine the
> faisability to develop such a project including both hardware and open
> source software.
>
>
> Pierre
>
>
> Le vendredi 1 juin 2018 17 h 39 min 06 s HAE, James 
> a écrit :
>
>
> cheaper and simpler would be a kite and a picavet system. I was looking
> into building a FPV, but just getting it to fly in a pattern gets expensive
> quickly(even building from scratch)
>
> On Thu, May 31, 2018, 9:01 PM Florian Lohoff,  wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
> is there a Mailinglist for the Technical aspects of DIY Remote Sensing
> e.g. Aerial imaging?
>
> I am talking about Drone/Copter/Autonomous flying like Sensefly Ebee
> and the like.
>
> As a lot of people are not capable of buying of the shelve equipment
> like the Ebee it might be interesting to get people together with
> their DIY projects. Autonomous Fixed Wings could be build in the range
> of 300€ - But then IMHO the hard part starts.
>
> Camera, Georeferencing the GeoTIFFs, creating a WMS service to be
> able to use them with Josm etc. Getting together an Open Source
> toolchain, docker containers, howtos etc
>
>
> Here is a (German) walk through in building a FPV Wing. We wouldnt need
> the FPV parts and this size is most likely not capable of carrying a
> camera but its a start.
>
> https://blog.seidel-philipp.de/fpv-wing-aus-kopter-teilen-bauen-mit-inav/
>
>
> For somebody who has dealt with electronics in the past its Buildable
> but i am having a hard time getting it actually to fly.
>
> Flo
> --
> Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de
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Re: [OSM-talk] Remote Sensing / DOP / DIY people

[Pierre Béland]

I dont know what is picavet. But I dont think thatKite, or balloon or similar 
flying objects could cover rapidly and systematically a rectangular area, be 
stabilized and produce images of quality.

The fix wings are still expansive but can produce rapidly very precise 
imageries and elevation models. It would be interesting to examine the 
faisability to develop such a project including both hardware and open source 
software.

 
Pierre 
 

Le vendredi 1 juin 2018 17 h 39 min 06 s HAE, James  a 
écrit :  
 
 cheaper and simpler would be a kite and a picavet system. I was looking into 
building a FPV, but just getting it to fly in a pattern gets expensive 
quickly(even building from scratch)

On Thu, May 31, 2018, 9:01 PM Florian Lohoff,  wrote:


Hi,
is there a Mailinglist for the Technical aspects of DIY Remote Sensing
e.g. Aerial imaging? 

I am talking about Drone/Copter/Autonomous flying like Sensefly Ebee 
and the like.

As a lot of people are not capable of buying of the shelve equipment
like the Ebee it might be interesting to get people together with
their DIY projects. Autonomous Fixed Wings could be build in the range
of 300€ - But then IMHO the hard part starts.

Camera, Georeferencing the GeoTIFFs, creating a WMS service to be
able to use them with Josm etc. Getting together an Open Source
toolchain, docker containers, howtos etc 


Here is a (German) walk through in building a FPV Wing. We wouldnt need
the FPV parts and this size is most likely not capable of carrying a
camera but its a start.

https://blog.seidel-philipp.de/fpv-wing-aus-kopter-teilen-bauen-mit-inav/


For somebody who has dealt with electronics in the past its Buildable
but i am having a hard time getting it actually to fly.

Flo
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Re: [OSM-talk] Remote Sensing / DOP / DIY people

[James]

Still cant beat ~50$ for a good kite pieces of string and a block of wood

On Fri, Jun 1, 2018, 4:19 AM Florian Lohoff,  wrote:

> On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 11:12:49PM -0400, James wrote:
> > cheaper and simpler would be a kite and a picavet system. I was looking
> > into building a FPV, but just getting it to fly in a pattern gets
> expensive
> > quickly(even building from scratch)
>
> INav on a flight controller like the Omnibus F4 should be able to do
> that for you.
>
> Flo
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>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Remote Sensing / DOP / DIY people

[Florian Lohoff]

Hi Oleksiy,

On Fri, Jun 01, 2018 at 10:08:06AM +0200, Oleksiy Muzalyev wrote:
> Hi Florian,
> 
> The DIY RC aircraft approach has got some other advantages, not only the
> initial cost: the plane can be easily repaired, parts may be reused for
> another project, one can build a airplane capable to carry any equipment,
> etc. Besides, if one learns to build an airplane one can build about
> anything.
> 
> The article, which you mention, describes a plane of the so called pusher
> configuration [1], with a propeller behind. This configuration has got some
> advantages, especially for the FPV (first person view) flight. However,
> there is a serious disadvantage notably for mapping. The pusher
> configuration is very noisy because a pusher prop is working in a disturbed
> airflow, causing increased vibration and noise. For mapping urban areas it
> is very significant

The Sensefly EBee is the same configuration - Fixed Wing Pusher and the
results are astonishing.

Fixed Wings are robust by design - So for a newbie they should be a lot
more manageable. Yes i lost some props due to crashes but not much
further damage.

I got NAV Launch to work yesterday and basically you throw the wing into
the air and it starts climbing until you touch the sticks. So takeoff
and landing is a matter of throwing and letting it "crash" in a grass
field near you. Although my power/weight ratio is not as good as
expected so it takes a while to gain enough speed to climb.

> I would also like to add a general remark that an airplane has got one (or
> two) engines, but the quad-copter has got four. Besides, a plane can glide.
> It explains why a fix-wing has better endurance and range than a
> multi-rotor.

It flies aerodynamically not by simple force of the props like the Quad ;)
In my configuration i think i get airtime of 45 Minutes or something.

And yes - It glides pretty well ...

I am know confident that i get the flying gear to work - probably not my
proof of concept but it'll work and produce aerials.

And than? 

Flo
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Re: [OSM-talk] Remote Sensing / DOP / DIY people

[Florian Lohoff]

On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 11:12:49PM -0400, James wrote:
> cheaper and simpler would be a kite and a picavet system. I was looking
> into building a FPV, but just getting it to fly in a pattern gets expensive
> quickly(even building from scratch)

INav on a flight controller like the Omnibus F4 should be able to do
that for you.

Flo
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 UTF-8 Test: The 🐈 ran after a 🐁, but the 🐁 ran away


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Re: [OSM-talk] Remote Sensing / DOP / DIY people

[Oleksiy Muzalyev]

Hi Florian,

The DIY RC aircraft approach has got some other advantages, not only the 
initial cost: the plane can be easily repaired, parts may be reused for 
another project, one can build a airplane capable to carry any 
equipment, etc. Besides, if one learns to build an airplane one can 
build about anything.


The article, which you mention, describes a plane of the so called 
pusher configuration [1], with a propeller behind. This configuration 
has got some advantages, especially for the FPV (first person view) 
flight. However, there is a serious disadvantage notably for mapping. 
The pusher configuration is very noisy because a pusher prop is working 
in a disturbed airflow, causing increased vibration and noise. For 
mapping urban areas it is very significant


While with the tractor configuration [2] the propeller works in an 
undisturbed air. A tractor electric RPAS airplane can be almost silent. 
The disadvantage of a tractor is that the rotating propeller somewhat 
obstructs the FPV camera view. After some time it becomes annoying.


I plan to build a twin engine RC airplane [3] to see if the advantage of 
being silent remains. If it does, then it would be good both for FPV and 
mapping.


I would also like to add a general remark that an airplane has got one 
(or two) engines, but the quad-copter has got four. Besides, a plane can 
glide. It explains why a fix-wing has better endurance and range than a 
multi-rotor.


[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pusher_configuration
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tractor_configuration
[3] https://store.flitetest.com/ft-cruiser-speed-build-kit/

With best regards,
O.

On 5/31/2018 6:48 PM, Florian Lohoff wrote:

Hi,
is there a Mailinglist for the Technical aspects of DIY Remote Sensing
e.g. Aerial imaging?

I am talking about Drone/Copter/Autonomous flying like Sensefly Ebee
and the like.

As a lot of people are not capable of buying of the shelve equipment
like the Ebee it might be interesting to get people together with
their DIY projects. Autonomous Fixed Wings could be build in the range
of 300€ - But then IMHO the hard part starts.

Camera, Georeferencing the GeoTIFFs, creating a WMS service to be
able to use them with Josm etc. Getting together an Open Source
toolchain, docker containers, howtos etc


Here is a (German) walk through in building a FPV Wing. We wouldnt need
the FPV parts and this size is most likely not capable of carrying a
camera but its a start.

https://blog.seidel-philipp.de/fpv-wing-aus-kopter-teilen-bauen-mit-inav/


For somebody who has dealt with electronics in the past its Buildable
but i am having a hard time getting it actually to fly.

Flo


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Re: [OSM-talk] Remote Sensing / DOP / DIY people

[James]

cheaper and simpler would be a kite and a picavet system. I was looking
into building a FPV, but just getting it to fly in a pattern gets expensive
quickly(even building from scratch)

On Thu, May 31, 2018, 9:01 PM Florian Lohoff,  wrote:

>
> Hi,
> is there a Mailinglist for the Technical aspects of DIY Remote Sensing
> e.g. Aerial imaging?
>
> I am talking about Drone/Copter/Autonomous flying like Sensefly Ebee
> and the like.
>
> As a lot of people are not capable of buying of the shelve equipment
> like the Ebee it might be interesting to get people together with
> their DIY projects. Autonomous Fixed Wings could be build in the range
> of 300€ - But then IMHO the hard part starts.
>
> Camera, Georeferencing the GeoTIFFs, creating a WMS service to be
> able to use them with Josm etc. Getting together an Open Source
> toolchain, docker containers, howtos etc
>
>
> Here is a (German) walk through in building a FPV Wing. We wouldnt need
> the FPV parts and this size is most likely not capable of carrying a
> camera but its a start.
>
> https://blog.seidel-philipp.de/fpv-wing-aus-kopter-teilen-bauen-mit-inav/
>
>
> For somebody who has dealt with electronics in the past its Buildable
> but i am having a hard time getting it actually to fly.
>
> Flo
> --
> Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de
>  UTF-8 Test: The 🐈 ran after a 🐁, but the 🐁 ran away
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
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[OSM-talk] Remote Sensing / DOP / DIY people

[Florian Lohoff]

Hi,
is there a Mailinglist for the Technical aspects of DIY Remote Sensing
e.g. Aerial imaging? 

I am talking about Drone/Copter/Autonomous flying like Sensefly Ebee 
and the like.

As a lot of people are not capable of buying of the shelve equipment
like the Ebee it might be interesting to get people together with
their DIY projects. Autonomous Fixed Wings could be build in the range
of 300€ - But then IMHO the hard part starts.

Camera, Georeferencing the GeoTIFFs, creating a WMS service to be
able to use them with Josm etc. Getting together an Open Source
toolchain, docker containers, howtos etc 


Here is a (German) walk through in building a FPV Wing. We wouldnt need
the FPV parts and this size is most likely not capable of carrying a
camera but its a start.

https://blog.seidel-philipp.de/fpv-wing-aus-kopter-teilen-bauen-mit-inav/


For somebody who has dealt with electronics in the past its Buildable
but i am having a hard time getting it actually to fly.

Flo
-- 
Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de
 UTF-8 Test: The 🐈 ran after a 🐁, but the 🐁 ran away


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