[OSM-talk] Q site update from Ops (was: our Q site help.openstreetmap.org is dying)

[Michal Migurski]

Hi Everyone,

Since Tobias Wrede started this thread in May, the Ops group has discussed the 
Help site during our regular meetings. We understand the importance of the Q 
site and acknowledge that the software running it is old and under-maintained.

In addition to the possibility of moving the site to a new platform like the 
ones mentioned in this thread, we’ve also verified that all past Q content 
can be archived [1] regardless of future platform and talked about potential 
underlying causes of the frontend script problems some users have experienced 
[2]. Currently, the Ops group has two initial conclusions:

1) We aren’t able to confirm the extent of the Javascript problems described in 
this thread because we lack a front-end monitoring that would provide this 
information. Our existing monitoring extensively covers the underlying server, 
shenron [3], alongside superficial uptime measurements [4].

2) The Q server is shared by Trac and SVN services which are being deprecated 
over the next month [5]. Deprecating Trac and SVN will allow us to better 
isolate and observe problems that Q is experiencing, and perhaps solve them 
by removing these competing services on one of OSM’s older pieces of hardware.

Over the next two months, I’ll be watching the thread [2] for reports of new 
failures. If these continue past August when SVN and Trac have been deprecated, 
we’ll add monitoring to better understand their cause and determine what work 
may be needed to fix or migrate OSM’s Q site.

-mike.

Links:
1. https://ops.pads.ccc.de/meeting-202006-A (archiving report starts at line 
173)
2. 
https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/74831/why-does-the-add-a-new-comment-button-sometimes-not-work?
 
3. 
https://munin.openstreetmap.org/openstreetmap.org/shenron.openstreetmap.org/index.html
 
4. https://uptime.openstreetmap.org  
5. https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/dev/2020-July/030958.html 

Ops Meeting Minutes:
- https://ops.pads.ccc.de/meeting-202005-B (July 1)
- https://ops.pads.ccc.de/meeting-202006-A (June 4)
- https://ops.pads.ccc.de/meeting-202007-A (May 22)


> On May 20, 2020, at 12:28 AM, Tobias Wrede  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> we have several channels in OSM to facilitate discussions and support. First 
> touch point for new users is often help.openstreetmap.org. Questions relating 
> to mapping in general, tagging, editors, development, OSM based applications 
> are asked there and get answered in most cases.
> 
> The site is based on OSQA, a software which has not been maintained in some 
> time. Some application errors have surface in the past but had to be ignored 
> since no fixes are coming from OSQA any more. Until now we could live with 
> that. They were annoying but not critical. There are open tickets on OSM 
> github to move the help site to some other framework 
> (https://github.com/openstreetmap/operations/issues/149, 
> https://github.com/openstreetmap/operations/issues/377) but there isn't 
> exactly an abundance of volunteers to take care of that.
> 
> Usability of help.openstreetmap.org has now seriously worsened over the past 
> few days with some js error popping up for longer and longer times 
> (https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/74831/why-does-the-add-a-new-comment-button-sometimes-not-work).
>  Buttons to support formatting questions and answers are gone, comments 
> cannot be added and moderation functions (reporting, converting questions to 
> comments etc.) are not working anymore.
> 
> If this continuous we can shut down the site soon. Even if this problem got 
> resolved somehow it's only a matter of time until a new problem arises. The 
> site provides a low entry hurdles place to ask questions that can be solved 
> by simple answers. I'd hate so see it gone.
> 
> I'm neither a programmer who could help out on the technical side nor am I 
> involved in OSM organization and politics to have an idea on how this could 
> be sorted out. Question around: Can we find someone to take care of the 
> technical side? Can we involve any of the OSM organizations to find, maybe 
> pay, someone? Does the community even find it worthwhile keeping the site?
> 
> cheers,
> 
> Tobias
> 
> 
> 
> 
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michal migurski- contact info and pgp key:
sf/cahttp://mike.teczno.com/contact.html





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Re: [talk-au] Restricted postcodes due to Covid-19

[Warin]

On 4/7/20 9:24 am, Ewen Hill wrote:

Good morning,
   You may still travel through these zones to get to your 
destination. Trains, trams and buses stil ply the routes so extensibly 
nothing has altered.


True for urban areas. I think these would change far too fast for 
usefulness in OSM.


Some 'aboriginal areas' have had Convid entering restrictions. I don't 
know if that continues. Some of these have permit requirements for 
visitors anyway, so that is a more useful thing to tag/map.




Ewen

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020, 11:58 PM Frederik Ramm > wrote:


Hi,

On 03.07.20 15:46, Bren Barnes wrote:
> Perhaps more of a thought experiment at this time, but how would
> "restricted postcodes" interact with OSM routing? Example:
>
> boundary=administrative
> name=brooklyn
> access:covid19=private
> or?
> opening_hours:covid19=restricted @ (Jul 02-Jul 29)
>
> I'm just wondering if any current OSM routing software would
utilise the
> tags on a relation which is bounding a lockdown area?

Sounds more like a task for a routing engine that supports "avoid
areas", e.g. ORS. With a little coding you could build a version
of that
that would always draw on the latest list of blocked areas without
having to mirror day-to-day policy changes in OSM.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org

 ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

[Kai Michael Poppe - OSM]

On 03.07.2020 12:57, Andy Mabbett wrote:

>> https://osm.mathmos.net/addresses/uprn/ (zoom in to level 16 to show the 
>> data)
> 
> Thank you.

Great tool!

So, a few months ago I stumbled upon a note
(https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/2158104#map=19/51.49829/-0.32762)
that StreetComplete left saying, that the street couldn't be given a
name because there's none shown.

Back then, I used streetmap.co.uk
(https://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=516161=179063=Y=106) in
hopes to finding something - but only got "FAI RD." which - to me -
makes no sense.

Also, using https://os.openstreetmap.org/ makes it look like that's just
an access path to houses around it, which is (IMHO) not entirely true as
the way directly linking Southdown Av. and Boston Rd. clearly is
publicly accessible.

Now, using the above mentioned map
(https://osm.mathmos.net/addresses/uprn/#19/51.4983/-0.3279) I now know,
that this street has the UPRN ID 12145988.

Is there any way to go from here, solving the particular problem of
naming the way correctly?

If I've overlooked a blatantly clear answer to this question on the
list, apologies, it's been a rough week!

Kai

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[Talk-ca] WikiProject Canada Post - Translate project page into French?

[David Nelson via Talk-ca]

It may be helpful if someone could please volunteer to translate the project 
page for WikiProject Canada Post on the OSM Wiki into French.  It might 
encourage more mappers, particularly in Quebec, to engage with the project, and 
show that there is serious energy being put into it.

- David E. Nelson

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Re: [talk-au] Restricted postcodes due to Covid-19

[Ewen Hill]

Good morning,
   You may still travel through these zones to get to your destination.
Trains, trams and buses stil ply the routes so extensibly nothing has
altered.

Ewen

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020, 11:58 PM Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On 03.07.20 15:46, Bren Barnes wrote:
> > Perhaps more of a thought experiment at this time, but how would
> > "restricted postcodes" interact with OSM routing? Example:
> >
> > boundary=administrative
> > name=brooklyn
> > access:covid19=private
> > or?
> > opening_hours:covid19=restricted @ (Jul 02-Jul 29)
> >
> > I'm just wondering if any current OSM routing software would utilise the
> > tags on a relation which is bounding a lockdown area?
>
> Sounds more like a task for a routing engine that supports "avoid
> areas", e.g. ORS. With a little coding you could build a version of that
> that would always draw on the latest list of blocked areas without
> having to mirror day-to-day policy changes in OSM.
>
> Bye
> Frederik
>
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Tag pour les services d'un établissement, quand ils sont adaptés aux fauteuils roulants

[Violaine_Do]

Coucou

Le 03/07/2020 à 11:07, Yves P. a écrit :
Mouais : dans  le cas du club de parapente, peut être que le 
bureau/local n'est pas accessible mais le service l'est (vol adapté). 
Et aussi si le local est accessible, ça veut pas dire que le service 
l'est. (par exemple club de danse accessible mais cours pas adaptés).

on est bien d'accord ;)

La distinction est importante et demandée par nos amis en situation 
de handicap.
C'est pour cela qu'il faut utiliser *:description=* pour le préciser 
pour nos "amis"
Ben pour moi wheelchair:description c'est détailler l'accessibilité du 
lieu, vu que wheelchair c'est sur le lieu en lui même.


Ou alors se mettre d'accord sur un Nième tag *:for=*


:for pour moi c'est sur la cible du lieu. Le club de parapente est open 
et adapté et ne développe pas un service exclusivement pour les 
personnes handicapées. Si je regarde le wiki sur social_facility:for, ça 
dit :


"The social_facility:for=* tag is used to describe the group of people 
that is primarily served by the social facility. "




office=association
club=sport
sport=free_flying
sport:for=disabled

ou une clé plus universelle à définir :
disabled:practice=*

j'aime mieux cette option pour la raison du dessus


Sachant qu'il n'y a pas un handicap, mais plusieurs grandes catégories 
et du cas par cas ensuite…


yes, des fois ça peut être ok d'utiliser disabled, des fois il vaudra 
mieux spécifier wheelchair/blind...


@+



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--
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[Talk-bo] Fwd: [OSM-talk] Panels, workshops, lightning talks and more at SotM

[Marco Antonio]

Hola,

Mañana Sábado y el Domingo desde las 6:00 a 18:30 podremos ver vía
stream live las sesiones del «State of the Map 2020», el enlace:

https://streaming.media.ccc.de/sotm2020

Igual los vídeos estarán publicados para después verlos. El programa
está publicado y hay un montón de charlas con su pad :) (recordar
cambiar el timezone):

https://2020.stateofthemap.org/programme/

Yo personalmente estoy interesado en:

sábado:
* 06:20 → Winds of Change in OpenStreetMap
* 09:00 → Lightning Talks I
* 11:45 → Buildings are the new Streets
* 13:15 → There might have been a misunderstanding...
* 17:30 → Building Stronger Communities Together - the Local Chapters
& Community Working Group
* 18:15 → Meet an OpenStreetMapper

domingo:
* 11:00 → How to publish a multi-modal journey app based on OSM with Trufi App
* 16:00 → Pedestrians First

El sábado en la tarde me reuniré con un mapeador de La Paz, vía
videoconferencia para identificar lugares a mejorar y ver cómo mapear
"lugares de destino" o "mapear carteles o señalización de calles", si
alguien quiere participar me dice para pasar el enlace :)

Abrazos,

Marco Antonio

-- Forwarded message -
From: Christine Karch 
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2020 at 14:12
Subject: [OSM-talk] Panels, workshops, lightning talks and more at SotM
To: , Talk Openstreetmap 

Hi all,

as most of you likely already know, SotM 2020 [1] will be a virtual
conference [2]. Nevertheless, in addition to regular talks, there will
also be lightning talks and self organised sessions. Of course, the
format of those will be quite a bit different:

 * Lightning talks: As usual, those will be short ~5 minute talks.
However, these talks have to be pre-recorded and uploaded before 28 June
2020. You can find more information about this and the registration for
lightning talks on the OSM wiki [3]. We're also providing a short
tutorial about the production of such pre-recorded talks [4] that is
based on OBS Studio [5].

 * Self organised sessions: These will be done as audio or video
conferences - which many of you are probably quite used to by now. More
information can also be found on the OSM wiki [6] where we have also
prepared a howto for these sessions [7].

   If you happen to run a Jitsi, BigBlueButton or Mumble instance that
could be used to run these sessions during the SotM conference, please
add it to the list of public servers [8]. Thanks!

We're very much looking forward to your lightning talk and self
organised session submissions for the virtual SotM 2020 :)!

Christine

[1] https://2020.stateofthemap.org/
[2] 
https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2020/03/27/sotm-2020-will-be-a-virtual-conference/
[3] 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_of_the_Map_2020/registration_lightning_talks
[4] 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_of_the_Map_2020/Tutorial_Pre-Recorded_Talk
[5] https://obsproject.com/
[6] 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_of_the_Map_2020/self-organized_sessions
[7] 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_of_the_Map_2020/self-organized_sessions_howto
[8] 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_of_the_Map_2020/self-organized_sessions_howto#Public_servers

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Re: [Talk-us] Rail tagging in US (and North America): operator=* and reporting_marks=*

[Chuck Sanders]

After a sidebar with a couple of other folks on the list a few minutes ago,
I realized I hadn't clearly wrapped up my conclusions from this part of the
discussion and what followed.  In light of the online meeting tomorrow to
discuss, I want to take a moment as suggested to clear this up, since it
was one of the main topics under discussion this past month.  In essence, I
quickly abandoned my original suggestion below of using the ref tag instead
(which already has rendering support, but has other uses in the US that are
more appropriate) for reporting marks.  Here's the brief synopsis:

End goal: In North America, the primary OpenRailwayMap rendering needs to
show the operators prepended to the route number and name, as this is the
industry standard that map users expect and require.  The most common form
is the reporting marks, an official short form.

Recommended method:  Include reporting marks in the following regional tag,
as described on https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:reporting_marks

Use of the regional tag (rather than a more common tag with other possible
uses) will simplify future rendering support; because the tag will serve
this specific purpose, it will not be accidentally misused in a way that
might cause improper labelling to appear on a non-North American part of
the map.

Future steps:  Work with the rendering team to format this information for
view and prepend it to the current labels of [ref] [name].

If we can get the reporting marks populated and get rendering support even
just on the current main routes, the rendered map would actually quickly
become usable in the US, which might also encourage more new contributors
to the cleanup/detail work.  We could get most main routes tagged within a
couple of weeks by selecting using existing relations.

Thanks,
Chuck
VA, USA

On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 7:21 PM Chuck Sanders  wrote:

> In the interim this week, I got the wiki page up for tag:reporting_marks,
> and started using the tag in my area as a bit of a test - we had the
> thought that if there proved to be a better tag to hold this info, since
> this is a "novel" tag, it'd be easy to query out places we'd used it and
> just switch it to the more appropriate tag.  Meanwhile, we could at least
> start entering the info we needed to eventually make the rail map show the
> information North American rail users expect.
>
> Turns out, there IS a better tag already, and it's *really* obvious, if
> you know much about European rail networks ... which I don't, on the
> whole.  The best tag to use was already in the default tag scheme, but I
> glossed over it based on its description, since nothing like it is used in
> North American rail networks.
>
> Long story short, in NA rail networks, we should be storing the reporting
> marks in the ref=* tag on the way, and in a "pretty" way, as this tag is
> directly rendered as part of the label.
>
> I missed this, because the description of that tag in the
> OpenRailwayMap/Tagging page is just, "The reference number of the railway
> line the track belongs to."  There's no such thing as a track reference
> number anywhere in NA, it's literally a foreign concept on this side of the
> Atlantic.  I suspect the description is so short, because it turns out the
> fine folks in Germany (where this tagging scheme was first developed)
> number their railway routes like we number highways in NA. This became
> blindingly obvious when I took a better look at both some of the better
> developed areas of the German map (which are WAY beyond the point we're at
> here, unfortunately for us at least), and started poking through the MapCSS
> style definition for the ORM renderer.
>
> I tried this out locally yesterday, and gave the server time to re-render
> the tiles.  If you put the reporting marks in the ref tag, which is
> otherwise used for absolutely nothing in NA and likely never would be, it
> works *beautifully* on the ORM render. A line with ref
> =NS
> 
> and name =South Branch
> 
> renders perfectly as "NS South Branch" at zooms >= 15, and as just "NS" at
> zooms 12-14, and with no tag at zooms <12. This is *exactly* the labeling
> style expected on a standard North American rail map - finally! And no
> modifications to the renderer necessary to make it work perfectly. I've
> uploaded samples at Zoom 12
> 
> and at Zoom 15
> 
> for comparison.
>
> For any non-NA readers who might be just as confused about the
> desirability of that tagging style as I was about nice, sensible railway
> route numbers, that has been the 

Re: [Talk-us] [openrailwaymap] Self organised session at SotM about Railway tagging in the US tomorrow

[stevea]

Chuck contacted me, Nathan and Clay are included in the emails, we'll see how 
many of us might make it tomorrow.

Thank you for organizing the discussion, Michael.

SteveA
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Tag pour les services d'un établissement, quand ils sont adaptés aux fauteuils roulants

[Yves P.]

> Mouais : dans  le cas du club de parapente, peut être que le bureau/local 
> n'est pas accessible mais le service l'est (vol adapté). Et aussi si le local 
> est accessible, ça veut pas dire que le service l'est. (par exemple club de 
> danse accessible mais cours pas adaptés).
on est bien d'accord ;)

> La distinction est importante et demandée par nos amis en situation de 
> handicap.
C'est pour cela qu'il faut utiliser *:description=* pour le préciser pour nos 
"amis"

Ou alors se mettre d'accord sur un Nième tag *:for=*

office=association
club=sport
sport=free_flying
sport:for=disabled

ou une clé plus universelle à définir :
disabled:practice=*

Sachant qu'il n'y a pas un handicap, mais plusieurs grandes catégories et du 
cas par cas ensuite…

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Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

[Mark Goodge]

On 03/07/2020 20:37, I wrote:


You could probably also match the names from OS OpenMap using the same 
principle. That doesn't include USRNs, but the LineStrings are likely to 
match the Open USRN geometry pretty closely. Either way, it should be 
possible to assign names to Open USRNs simply by overlaying them on a 
map which already has names.


Just for reference, I've just compared the LineStrings for the street 
where I live in both Open USRN and OS OpenMap Local. Apart from the fact 
that, for one coordinate pair, OSOML is rounding to two decimal places 
wile Open USRN uses three decimal places, they are identical.


Obviously, that's just one suburban residential street, and other, more 
complex routes may not match so well. But the principle works on a 
sample location, so it's just a case of seeing how consistent it is 
across the entire network. I may have a look at that in more detail next 
week. But I've been working flat out on processing open UPRNs and UPRNs 
since Wednesday, and, right now, it's wine o'clock :-)


Mark

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Re: [Talk-us] [openrailwaymap] Self organised session at SotM about Railway tagging in the US tomorrow

[Chuck Sanders]

Shoot, I'm very interested in that discussion (and I think I've been one of
the main people stirring up the recent NA rail discussion on the mailing
lists), but I have a prior commitment tomorrow starting about an hour
before that.

I might speak with a couple of people who I've done the most talking with
over the past few weeks' questions to see if either is planning to join in
- that way, if everyone is wondering what it is I'm on about with all the
questions, I think they both know where I'm coming from with my prior
questions.

Thanks,
Chuck
VA, USA

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 4:30 PM Michael Reichert 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> railway tagging in the US has been a large topic on the OpenRailwayMap
> mailing list (and partially on Talk-us) for the last couple of weeks. I
> think that there is still some need for further discussions and would
> like to invite all those who are interested in it to join a self
> organised session via Jitsi at the virtual State of the Map conference
> tomorrow at 20:00 UTC (= 22:00 CEST, 16:00 Eastern, 13:00 Pacific)
>
> Time in your time zone:
>
> https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Railway+tagging+in+the+US=20200704T20=%3A
>
> Jitsi room: https://jitsi.geofabrik.de/railway-tagging-us
> Please use Chromium or Chrome, avoid Firefox please.
>
> Best regards
>
> Michael
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Tag pour les services d'un établissement, quand ils sont adaptés aux fauteuils roulants

[Violaine_Do]

Merci Yves, je réponds dans le texte

Le 02/07/2020 à 22:52, Yves P. a écrit :


Version simple:
*wheelchair*=* ou *disabled*=* (pour prendre en compte tous les handicaps)

wheelchair est plus sur l'accessibilité du lieu (marche ou pas, etc...)


Si le local n'est pas accessible, le service ne doit pas l'être ?
Mouais : dans  le cas du club de parapente, peut être que le 
bureau/local n'est pas accessible mais le service l'est (vol adapté). Et 
aussi si le local est accessible, ça veut pas dire que le service l'est. 
(par exemple club de danse accessible mais cours pas adaptés). La 
distinction est importante et demandée par nos amis en situation de 
handicap.


--
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[Talk-us] Self organised session at SotM about Railway tagging in the US tomorrow

[Michael Reichert]

Hi,

railway tagging in the US has been a large topic on the OpenRailwayMap
mailing list (and partially on Talk-us) for the last couple of weeks. I
think that there is still some need for further discussions and would
like to invite all those who are interested in it to join a self
organised session via Jitsi at the virtual State of the Map conference
tomorrow at 20:00 UTC (= 22:00 CEST, 16:00 Eastern, 13:00 Pacific)

Time in your time zone:
https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Railway+tagging+in+the+US=20200704T20=%3A

Jitsi room: https://jitsi.geofabrik.de/railway-tagging-us
Please use Chromium or Chrome, avoid Firefox please.

Best regards

Michael



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Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN & USRN Tagging

[Mark Goodge]

On 03/07/2020 21:07, Andy Mabbett wrote:

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 at 15:31, Tony OSM  wrote:


Question: Should uprn be applied to the building outline or to a node?


Yes ;-)

Some UPRNs have a 1:1 relation with a building or object (terraced,
semi- or detached house, telephone box, etc.)

Some do not (apartments; subdivided houses, etc.)

I propose we tag accordingly.


I agree. But, where multiple UPRNs are co-located with a single 
building, there's no consistent way to tell from the Open UPRN data 
which UPRN attaches to which subdivision. The open data has no z-index, 
so where you have a flat above a shop, for example, the data will give 
you two UPRNs for the same building but no indication of which is the 
flat and which is the shop.


For that, you need local knowledge - and it can't be local knowledge 
obtained from incompatible sources. So there won't be any easy way to 
look it up, as all the lookups are likely to be based on data obtained 
from MasterMap and AddressBase.


Mark

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Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN & USRN Tagging

[Andy Mabbett]

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 at 15:31, Tony OSM  wrote:

> Question: Should uprn be applied to the building outline or to a node?

Yes ;-)

Some UPRNs have a 1:1 relation with a building or object (terraced,
semi- or detached house, telephone box, etc.)

Some do not (apartments; subdivided houses, etc.)

I propose we tag accordingly.

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

[Mark Goodge]

On 03/07/2020 11:23, Tony OSM wrote:
I spent part of yesterday navigating the relevant OS and LandRegistry 
sites and trying to figure out what we can do.


We can basically put UPRN and USRN into OSM freely - the license is 
written to enable that.  OS have also separated out the ability to match 
UPRN and USRN to address and street records - essentially they are 
creating an index into their MasterMap products which are behind a 
paywall. So anybody who wants to pay -  possibly Logistics companies - 
can find exactly where their van has to go, more accurate than a postcode.


It should be relatively straightforward to link USRNs to OSM data, since 
the topology will match - most roads don't stack, so where a USRN line 
follows the same route as an OSM way that's tagged as a road then they 
are the same. Where roads do overlap (eg, the A4/M4 double decker in 
West London and various tunnels and flyovers), that should be amenable 
to manual resolution. Once a USRN is matched to an OSM named way then 
that gives us a name for the USRN that's derived independently of 
MasterMap.


You could probably also match the names from OS OpenMap using the same 
principle. That doesn't include USRNs, but the LineStrings are likely to 
match the Open USRN geometry pretty closely. Either way, it should be 
possible to assign names to Open USRNs simply by overlaying them on a 
map which already has names.


(I say "relatively" straightforward as the open USRN dataset is supplied 
as a Geopackage, so using it requires extracting the data from that. 
That's an added layer of irritation, but it's not unsurmountable).


Matching UPRNs to OSM data is likely to be more awkward. In a lot of 
cases, of course, it will be simple enough - where there's just one UPRN 
assigned to what is obviously a distinct building that's been mapped in 
OSM then that UPRN clearly applies to that building. But where there are 
multiple UPRNs allocated to a single building then we would need more 
data to be able to make the correct links. And that data is probably not 
available with a suitable licence.


OS also seem to have been careful not to place UPRN and USRN data into 
their other free products so as to make cross referencing difficult.


UPRNs can be linked to adjacent USRNs via the OS Open Linked Identifiers:

https://osdatahub.os.uk/downloads/open/LIDS

That's helpful, because it tells us which part of the road network the 
local authority responsible for allocating the UPRNs thinks it's on. 
That's not necessarily the same as the street name in the postal 
address, but for physical access (which is what matters for things like 
deliveries and taxis) it's often more useful than a postal address.


Mark

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Alternatives à Mapillary

[Tyndare]

Le 03/07/2020 à 16:52, Yves P. a écrit :
Est-ce que c'est possible de le mettre en ligne pour effectuer quelques 
tests sans devoir tout installer ?


Je n'ai pas de serveur pour mettre en ligne.


A terme, peut-on se partager nos réseaux entrainés ?

>
A un moment donné on partage nos réseaux et on les fusionne dans le but 
d'améliorer la fiabilité de la détection.

Est-ce envisageable ?


De mon côté je n'ai rien entrainé du tout, j'ai juste utilisé le réseau 
déjà entrainé que j'ai mentionné. Je crois qu'il a été entraîné sur le 
jeu de détection d'objets COCO dont tu parlais.


Je ne maîtrise pas suffisamment le sujet pour savoir comment fusionner 
des réseaux mais si c'est possible ça semble une bonne idée.


J'imagine que Mapillary doit intégrer à sa base d’apprentissage des cas 
que les contributeurs ont reflouté manuellement avec l'interface sur 
leur site (Edit Privacy Blur) afin d'améliorer leur détection.



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Re: [OSM-talk] Building a tile-server

[Tom Browder]

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 1:44 PM Andy Townsend  wrote:...
...
> If you get to the point where you've got something that could be turned
> into a Debian version of
> https://switch2osm.org/serving-tiles/manually-building-a-tile-server-20-04-lts/

I'll be glad to, Andy. You can follow my progress somewhat by checking
my github repo at:

   https://github.com/tbrowder/config-scripts/tree/master/Openstreetmap

Can you recommend a good link on the workflow for building vector
tiles? Julien has done it with another language and I'm not sure I
will be able to follow it well enough.

Best regards,

-Tom

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Re: [OSM-talk] Building a tile-server

[Andy Townsend]

On 03/07/2020 18:56, Tom Browder wrote:

On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 15:18 Tom Browder  wrote:
...
Okay, I'm making progress, thanks to you all.

First, lesson learned (as suggested by all): I used Antarctica pbm as
a test bed for import which showed an immediate problem with
osm2pgsql.

Thanks to Sarah about the requirement for a current osm2pgsql. I wound
up compiling and installing from source which made the import process
work. Strangely, that version shows as 1.2.0 while the Buster
backports shows version 1.21!

If you get to the point where you've got something that could be turned 
into a Debian version of 
https://switch2osm.org/serving-tiles/manually-building-a-tile-server-20-04-lts/ 
that'd be great - either the whole new page or just a set of notes that 
someone could add some text around.


Also (not necessarily the same page) it'd be good to have a Tirex 
version of those notes for https://switch2osm.org too.  The source for 
the pages is over at https://github.com/switch2osm/switch2osm.github.io .


Best Regards,

Andy



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Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN & USRN Tagging

[Jez Nicholson]

I believe that the French have been using the country namespace in ref
codes recently and, although I was initially doubtful, I now see the value
in not claiming a reference code for the entire world. Some examples in
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/France/Liste_des_r%C3%A9f%C3%A9rences_nationales

Sure, USRNs must have already been added a while back from the UK National
Address Gazetteer or something, but that doesn't make ref:usrn right and
fair to other countries that may have a different meaning for the acronym.

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 6:43 PM Nick  wrote:

> Hi Mike
>
> I tend to agree in terms of consistency. Looking at the results for
> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=usrn - the key 'ref:usrn'
> dominates so to me makes sense to use 'key:uprn'. Searching on UPRN
> reveals the lack of clarity.
>
> Cheers
>
> Nick
>
> On 03/07/2020 17:47, Mike Baggaley wrote:
> > I note that ref:usrn was added to the Key:ref wiki in May 2017 and I can
> see no real reason to add GB into the key, especially if it is upper case.
> There are lots of examples of other country specific tags which do not
> include a country code on that page, in fact I can't see a single one that
> does include a country code.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Mike
> >
> >> Agree with ref:GB:uprn and ref:GB:usrn.
> >
> > ___
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Re: [OSM-talk] Building a tile-server

[Tom Browder]

On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 15:18 Tom Browder  wrote:
> Yesterday I took my first try at using osm2pgsql on a pbm file and,
> too late, I realized I didn't take full advantage of the server's
> large RAM and multi-core capability.
...

Okay, I'm making progress, thanks to you all.

First, lesson learned (as suggested by all): I used Antarctica pbm as
a test bed for import which showed an immediate problem with
osm2pgsql.

Thanks to Sarah about the requirement for a current osm2pgsql. I wound
up compiling and installing from source which made the import process
work. Strangely, that version shows as 1.2.0 while the Buster
backports shows version 1.21!

Thanks to Paul for the postgresql settings I made for work_mem and
maintenance_work_mem (and the size catch by Martin!).

As to suggestions to change other postgresql settings I got mixed
signals.  One I didn't ask about was autovacuum on or off?

I plan to try Frederik's tirex at some point after I get a working server.

Finally, thanks to Julien for the links to his vector tile work.  I
will have to study that a bit more later.

Cheers!

-Tom

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Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN & USRN Tagging

[Nick]

Hi Mike

I tend to agree in terms of consistency. Looking at the results for 
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/search?q=usrn - the key 'ref:usrn' 
dominates so to me makes sense to use 'key:uprn'. Searching on UPRN 
reveals the lack of clarity.


Cheers

Nick

On 03/07/2020 17:47, Mike Baggaley wrote:

I note that ref:usrn was added to the Key:ref wiki in May 2017 and I can see no 
real reason to add GB into the key, especially if it is upper case. There are 
lots of examples of other country specific tags which do not include a country 
code on that page, in fact I can't see a single one that does include a country 
code.

Regards,
Mike


Agree with ref:GB:uprn and ref:GB:usrn.


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Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN & USRN Tagging

[Michael Collinson]

Which makes it difficult to know or guess what the  a tag relates to 
without research, especially if used wrongly or without consultation.  
Tags should be self-descriptive to the extent possible. Sorry, 
parochialism just gets up my nose! :-) Definite thumbs up up to using an 
ISO country code if nationally specific. Encourages good practice for all.


Mike

On 2020-07-03 17:47, Mike Baggaley wrote:

I note that ref:usrn was added to the Key:ref wiki in May 2017 and I can see no 
real reason to add GB into the key, especially if it is upper case. There are 
lots of examples of other country specific tags which do not include a country 
code on that page, in fact I can't see a single one that does include a country 
code.

Regards,
Mike


Agree with ref:GB:uprn and ref:GB:usrn.


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Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN & USRN Tagging

[Andrew Hain]

If there are more than 19 UPRNs for the same building the reference will be 
longer than OSM’s tag value limit of 255 characters.

--
Andrew


From: Tony OSM 
Sent: 03 July 2020 15:31
To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org 
Subject: [Talk-GB] UPRN & USRN Tagging


As we have access to the data and Robert Whittaker has produced a great UPRN 
locations map, how are we planning to tag OSM objects?

ref:UK:uprn and ref:UK:usrn

have been suggested as tags - I think this is the way to go.


There is also Key:ref:NPLG:UPRN:1 in the wiki.


Question: Should uprn be applied to the building outline or to a node?

The OS data applies them as nodes, they are assigned by local authorities to a 
location as a node.

The uprn is applied to many objects even bus shelters, and individual flats 
within a block; there may be what appear to be duplicates.

I suggest that for OSM buildings or building parts which are individually 
linkable to a uprn then the uprn is assigned to the building way outline; 
otherwise to an OSM node if the mapper deems appropriate

Tony Shield---   TonyS999
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Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN & USRN Tagging

[Mike Baggaley]

I note that ref:usrn was added to the Key:ref wiki in May 2017 and I can see no 
real reason to add GB into the key, especially if it is upper case. There are 
lots of examples of other country specific tags which do not include a country 
code on that page, in fact I can't see a single one that does include a country 
code.

Regards,
Mike

>Agree with ref:GB:uprn and ref:GB:usrn.


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Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN & USRN Tagging

[Tony OSM]

Agree with ref:GB:uprn and ref:GB:usrn.

Yes we do need to understand the data. If a usrn is given to a road, 
then the road is extended is the extension included in the original usrn 
or given a new usrn. Plenty of scope for decisions when using in OSM.


T

On 03/07/2020 16:55, Robert Skedgell wrote:

Surely these should be ref:GB:uprn and ref:GB:usrn, as UK is not an ISO
3166-1 alpha-2 country code?

Having had a quick look at USRN data, it appears that roads may have
more than one USRN, as a road may have more than one of 'Designated
Street Name', 'Officially Described Street', 'Numbered Street' and
'Unofficial Street Name'. In addition to this, some streets appear to
have a UPRN for the 'street record'.

On 03/07/2020 15:31, Tony OSM wrote:

As we have access to the data and Robert Whittaker has produced a great
UPRN locations map, how are we planning to tag OSM objects?

ref:UK:uprn and ref:UK:usrn

have been suggested as tags - I think this is the way to go.


There is also Key:ref:NPLG:UPRN:1 in the wiki.


Question: Should uprn be applied to the building outline or to a node?

The OS data applies them as nodes, they are assigned by local
authorities to a location as a node.

The uprn is applied to many objects even bus shelters, and individual
flats within a block; there may be what appear to be duplicates.

I suggest that for OSM buildings or building parts which are
individually linkable to a uprn then the uprn is assigned to the
building way outline; otherwise to an OSM node if the mapper deems
appropriate

Tony Shield    ---   TonyS999


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] GoGoCarto --- demande d'information

[Vincent Bergeot]

Le 03/07/2020 à 18:06, European Water Project a écrit :

Bonjour Vincent,

Tous les points d'eau que j'ai vu pour l'instant avec OWATER 
 
sont d'OSM. Il me semble que la partie : (@43.311,6.470,11z) de l'url 
est juste pour le display du centre de la carte et le niveau du zoom.


confirmation par le développeur je cite "l'url n'a rien à voir, c'est 
juste que j'ai copié le format google car je trouvais ça plutôt lisible. 
Et les points sont geolocalisé avec nominatim pas avec google"


et en plus "au passage tu peux leur dire pour la license que chaque 
projet configure sa license, et que de base c'est ODBL"




Je partage ton opinion que les gens derrière ce projet auront la 
volonté de respecter les licences et s'il y a une incompatibilité ils 
la rectifieront.


Ma question était plutôt pour voir s'il y avait moyen d'assurer que 
les contributions des points d'eau potable de la part des utilisateurs 
de GoGoCarto et le monde Zero Waste France soient mises directement 
dans la base de données d'OSM pour que tout le monde en profite.


cela serait parfait oui de contribuer une fois pour alimenter plusieurs 
cartes :)








Bien cordialement,

Stuart



On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 at 17:50, Vincent Bergeot > wrote:


Le 03/07/2020 à 17:40, osm.sanspourr...@spamgourmet.com
 a écrit :


Vu le format de l'URL (@43.311,6.470,11z) à la GM j'ai bien peur
que les points n'aient été géolocalisés avec une licence
incompatible.

Ceci dit dans ce cas ils violeraient la licence en question (qui
impose d'afficher sur un fond GM).

Stuart, je crois que tu es tout désigné comme personne pour leur
conseiller de saisir proprement les données dans un écosystème ODbL.

Oui on pense au même^^.



Bonjour,

il y a eu des échanges avec d'une part le dev de gogocarto qui est
venu à mon invitation en 2018 au sotm-fr présenté la carte Près de
chez nous, qui a initié le projet gogocarto. Le canal de
discussion est ici : https://chat.lescommuns.org/channel/gogocarto

D'autre part, je suis en discussion avec des gens de transiscope
qui utilise Gogogocarto, avec aussi Christian de Nantes qui
travaille sur les projets cartovrac et autres dans OSM. En
particulier pour arriver à faire des ponts entre transiscope
(https://transiscope.org/) et OSM.

Que cela soit le dev de gogocarto ou les gens de transiscope, ils
sont attentifs à la question des licences avec l'envie d'avancer
sur les ponts entre les projets.

PS : Je ne pense pas que l'url soit représentative de la manière
dont le géocodage a été fait, des points sont ajoutés à la main,
avec tout un système de validation. Je me renseigne :)



Jean-Yvon

Le 03/07/2020 à 16:29, Yves P. - yves.prat...@gmail.com
 a écrit :


Mais en cherchant où se trouve la doc

,
on fini par voir qu'il est possible d'importer et d'exporter des
données (licence ??)


Comme dans umap -> Tu peux récupérer les données, mais si aucune
licence n'est posée sur les données tu ne peux pas t'en servir !


-- 
Vincent Bergeot


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Vincent Bergeot

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] GoGoCarto --- demande d'information

[European Water Project]

Bonjour Vincent,

Tous les points d'eau que j'ai vu pour l'instant avec  OWATER

sont
d'OSM. Il me semble que la partie : (@43.311,6.470,11z) de l'url est juste
pour le display du centre de la carte et le niveau du zoom.

Je partage ton opinion que les gens derrière ce projet auront la volonté de
respecter les licences et s'il y a une incompatibilité ils la rectifieront.

Ma question était plutôt pour voir s'il y avait moyen d'assurer que les
contributions des points d'eau potable de la part des utilisateurs de
GoGoCarto et le monde Zero Waste France soient mises directement dans la
base de données d'OSM pour que tout le monde en profite.

Bien cordialement,

Stuart



On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 at 17:50, Vincent Bergeot  wrote:

> Le 03/07/2020 à 17:40, osm.sanspourr...@spamgourmet.com a écrit :
>
> Vu le format de l'URL (@43.311,6.470,11z) à la GM j'ai bien peur que les
> points n'aient été géolocalisés avec une licence incompatible.
>
> Ceci dit dans ce cas ils violeraient la licence en question (qui impose
> d'afficher sur un fond GM).
>
> Stuart, je crois que tu es tout désigné comme personne pour leur
> conseiller de saisir proprement les données dans un écosystème ODbL.
>
> Oui on pense au même^^.
>
>
> Bonjour,
>
> il y a eu des échanges avec d'une part le dev de gogocarto qui est venu à
> mon invitation en 2018 au sotm-fr présenté la carte Près de chez nous, qui
> a initié le projet gogocarto. Le canal de discussion est ici :
> https://chat.lescommuns.org/channel/gogocarto
>
> D'autre part, je suis en discussion avec des gens de transiscope qui
> utilise Gogogocarto, avec aussi Christian de Nantes qui travaille sur les
> projets cartovrac et autres dans OSM. En particulier pour arriver à faire
> des ponts entre transiscope (https://transiscope.org/) et OSM.
>
> Que cela soit le dev de gogocarto ou les gens de transiscope, ils sont
> attentifs à la question des licences avec l'envie d'avancer sur les ponts
> entre les projets.
>
> PS : Je ne pense pas que l'url soit représentative de la manière dont le
> géocodage a été fait, des points sont ajoutés à la main, avec tout un
> système de validation. Je me renseigne :)
>
>
> Jean-Yvon
> Le 03/07/2020 à 16:29, Yves P. - yves.prat...@gmail.com a écrit :
>
>
> Mais en cherchant où se trouve la doc
> ,
> on fini par voir qu'il est possible d'importer et d'exporter des données
> (licence ??)
>
> Comme dans umap -> Tu peux récupérer les données, mais si aucune licence
> n'est posée sur les données tu ne peux pas t'en servir !
>
> --
> Vincent Bergeot
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Alternatives à Mapillary

[Christian Quest]

Le 03/07/2020 à 16:52, Yves P. a écrit :

Bonjour,



Je viens de mettre mon script sur github:
https://github.com/tyndare/blur-persons


Est-ce que c'est possible de le mettre en ligne pour effectuer 
quelques tests sans devoir tout installer ?


J'ai lancé la détection sur toutes mes photos avec digikam v6.x (et en 
cours avec la v7.0rc)
Ce projet utilise Deep Neural Network 
 de 
la bibliothèque OpenCV.


Pas mal de faux positifs — pas gênant — qui disparaissent après 
apprentissage.
Mais aussi des faux négatifs : 1 seul ou quelques visages détectés sur 
une photo de groupe ou de foule :(


J'aimerais tester ton script avec ces photos pour voir si il se 
débrouille mieux.


A terme, peut-on se partager nos réseaux entrainés ?

Par exemple j'entraine l'algo avec mes photos Street View.
D'autres font la même chose de leur coté.

A un moment donné on partage nos réseaux et on les fusionne dans le 
but d'améliorer la fiabilité de la détection.

Est-ce envisageable ?

__
Yves

PS: pour la mise en ligne, est-ce possible de mettre un champ pour 
télécharger un fichier, et un autre pour indiquer une URL d'une image 
déjà en ligne (sur Wikimedia par exemple) ?
Ou une simple URL et/ou on se débrouille avec CURL pour envoyer notre 
photo ?


PS bis : Machine Learning Notebooks 
.
C'est un dépôt GitHub avec des exercices sous forme de "carnets" 
Jupiter pour apprendre les bases de l'apprentissage automatique 
(machine learning) en python.
L'auteur est français. Il a publié ce printemps Deep Learning avec 
Keras et TensorFlow - 2e édition 





Voici un essai sur quelques photos: 
https://takeitout.cquest.org/photo/cquest/blurred/


J'ai flouté les personnes et voitures à l'aide du code de tyndare (et 
après installation du bazar).



--
Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France

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Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN & USRN Tagging

[Robert Skedgell]

Surely these should be ref:GB:uprn and ref:GB:usrn, as UK is not an ISO
3166-1 alpha-2 country code?

Having had a quick look at USRN data, it appears that roads may have
more than one USRN, as a road may have more than one of 'Designated
Street Name', 'Officially Described Street', 'Numbered Street' and
'Unofficial Street Name'. In addition to this, some streets appear to
have a UPRN for the 'street record'.

On 03/07/2020 15:31, Tony OSM wrote:
> As we have access to the data and Robert Whittaker has produced a great
> UPRN locations map, how are we planning to tag OSM objects?
> 
> ref:UK:uprn and ref:UK:usrn
> 
> have been suggested as tags - I think this is the way to go.
> 
> 
> There is also Key:ref:NPLG:UPRN:1 in the wiki.
> 
> 
> Question: Should uprn be applied to the building outline or to a node?
> 
> The OS data applies them as nodes, they are assigned by local
> authorities to a location as a node.
> 
> The uprn is applied to many objects even bus shelters, and individual
> flats within a block; there may be what appear to be duplicates.
> 
> I suggest that for OSM buildings or building parts which are
> individually linkable to a uprn then the uprn is assigned to the
> building way outline; otherwise to an OSM node if the mapper deems
> appropriate
> 
> Tony Shield    ---   TonyS999
> 
> 
> ___
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> 


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] GoGoCarto --- demande d'information

[Vincent Bergeot]

Le 03/07/2020 à 17:40, osm.sanspourr...@spamgourmet.com a écrit :


Vu le format de l'URL (@43.311,6.470,11z) à la GM j'ai bien peur que 
les points n'aient été géolocalisés avec une licence incompatible.


Ceci dit dans ce cas ils violeraient la licence en question (qui 
impose d'afficher sur un fond GM).


Stuart, je crois que tu es tout désigné comme personne pour leur 
conseiller de saisir proprement les données dans un écosystème ODbL.


Oui on pense au même^^.



Bonjour,

il y a eu des échanges avec d'une part le dev de gogocarto qui est venu 
à mon invitation en 2018 au sotm-fr présenté la carte Près de chez nous, 
qui a initié le projet gogocarto. Le canal de discussion est ici : 
https://chat.lescommuns.org/channel/gogocarto


D'autre part, je suis en discussion avec des gens de transiscope qui 
utilise Gogogocarto, avec aussi Christian de Nantes qui travaille sur 
les projets cartovrac et autres dans OSM. En particulier pour arriver à 
faire des ponts entre transiscope (https://transiscope.org/) et OSM.


Que cela soit le dev de gogocarto ou les gens de transiscope, ils sont 
attentifs à la question des licences avec l'envie d'avancer sur les 
ponts entre les projets.


PS : Je ne pense pas que l'url soit représentative de la manière dont le 
géocodage a été fait, des points sont ajoutés à la main, avec tout un 
système de validation. Je me renseigne :)




Jean-Yvon

Le 03/07/2020 à 16:29, Yves P. - yves.prat...@gmail.com a écrit :


Mais en cherchant où se trouve la doc 
, 
on fini par voir qu'il est possible d'importer et d'exporter des 
données (licence ??)


Comme dans umap -> Tu peux récupérer les données, mais si aucune licence 
n'est posée sur les données tu ne peux pas t'en servir !



--
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] GoGoCarto --- demande d'information

[Yves P.]

> Vu le format de l'URL (@43.311,6.470,11z) à la GM j'ai bien peur que les 
> points n'aient été géolocalisés avec une licence incompatible.
> 
https://cartodb-basemaps-a.global.ssl.fastly.net/light_all/10/520/374.png

Je ne connais pas ces tuiles, et vous ?

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] GoGoCarto --- demande d'information

[osm . sanspourriel]

Vu le format de l'URL (@43.311,6.470,11z) à la GM j'ai bien peur que les
points n'aient été géolocalisés avec une licence incompatible.

Ceci dit dans ce cas ils violeraient la licence en question (qui impose
d'afficher sur un fond GM).

Stuart, je crois que tu es tout désigné comme personne pour leur
conseiller de saisir proprement les données dans un écosystème ODbL.

Oui on pense au même^^.

Jean-Yvon

Le 03/07/2020 à 16:29, Yves P. - yves.prat...@gmail.com a écrit :


Mais en cherchant où se trouve la doc
,
on fini par voir qu'il est possible d'importer et d'exporter des
données (licence ??)
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[Talk-it] Incontro post SotM per OSM Italia

[Anisa Kuci]

Ciao a tutte/tutti,

come forse saprete questo fine settimana si terrà SotM online (/non 
richiede registrazione ed è gratuito/).


Durante le conferenze di persona ci sono tanti piccoli incontri 
organizzati dove le persone hanno la possibilità di parlare dell'evento, 
chiacchierare e di socializzare un po'.


Poiché questa edizione non permette questo tipo di socializzazione, ho 
voluto proporre *un incontro virtuale* spontaneo questo *mercoledì 8 
luglio*, *dalle 17:00 alle 19:00*, per poter parlare e condividere la 
nostra esperienza di questo SotM virtuale non comune.


*Ci troviamo in **questa stanza **Jitsi!*

Ho creato un pad  dove 
gentilmente vi chiederei di mettere la vostra disponibilità per il 
tempo, per sapere in anticipo quante persone possono partecipare e in 
che ora.


Durante l'incontro sentitevi liberi di uscire e entrare in base alle 
vostre esigenze.


L'incontro è aperto a tutti, ma ricordatevi che c'è una regola: ognuno 
porta la propria bevanda!


Buon weekend e godetevi SotM2020!

Buona serata a tutte/tutti,

Anisa


--
Anisa Kuci
Responsabile OpenStreetMap e Wikidata
Wikimedia Italia - Associazione per la diffusione della conoscenza libera
Via Bergognone 34 - 20144 Milano
Tel. (+39) 02 97677170 | anisa.k...@wikimedia.it | www.wikimedia.it

DAI ALLA CONOSCENZA LIBERA UN NUOVO NOME. IL TUO.
Devolvi il 5x1000 a Wikimedia Italia:
nella tua dichiarazione dei redditi inserisci il Codice Fiscale 94039910156

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Re: [Talk-it-lazio] incontro lunedì

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

Ci sono novità? Preferenze sul punto di incontro? Potrebbe per esempio
essere qui:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=41.89466=12.48151#map=19/41.89466/12.48151
oppure qui:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=41.89925=12.47674#map=18/41.89925/12.47674

oppure dove volete voi...

Ciao
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Extracteur de fichier GeoJSON correspond aux points d'arrêts et aux lignes à partir d'un fichier GTFS

[Percherie OnDaNet]

Pas mal, je ne savais pas qu'ils avaient produit un jeu de donnée mais 
il semble qu'il date de 2016. C'est la date inscrite sur les POI


D'ailleurs quelques arrêts ont été fermé ou déplacé depuis. Idem pour 
les nouveaux qui n'existe pas.


Le 03/07/2020 à 10:20, leni a écrit :



Le 03/07/2020 à 07:22, Gad Jo a écrit :
Je suis en train de reprendre la construction du réseau de bus de 
l'Agglo de Narbonne.
J'ai commencé il y a longtemps avec le schéma de transport V1 et je 
suis en train de tout recontroler pour un passage en V2.
La page de suivis est également est cours de correction car les façon 
de taguer ont changé : 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Narbonne/Transports_en_commun


Je suis intéressé ce qui est indiqué dans l'info lettre de 
transport.data.gouv.fr mais je n'ai rien trouvé concernant la zone de 
Narbonne. Qui publie les jeux de données ?


Le June 30, 2020 2:31:07 PM UTC, "Yves P."  a 
écrit :


Bonjour,

Pour celles et ceux qui veulent cartographier dans OSM les lignes
de transport en commun, transport.data.gouv.fr
 vient d'annoncer ceci dans son
Info-lettre de Juin 2020.

__
Yves


Bonjour

Il semble que c'est le Grand Narbonne qui doit transmettre ses données 
à transport.data.gouv.fr , mais pour 
l'instant je pense qu'ils ne l'ont pas encore fait ; par contre, on 
trouve les arrêts dans 
https://www.data.gouv.fr/fr/datasets/arrets-de-bus-communaute-dagglomeration-le-grand-narbonne/


cordialement

leni


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Alternatives à Mapillary

[Yves P.]

Bonjour,


> Je viens de mettre mon script sur github:
> https://github.com/tyndare/blur-persons 
> 

Est-ce que c'est possible de le mettre en ligne pour effectuer quelques tests 
sans devoir tout installer ?

J'ai lancé la détection sur toutes mes photos avec digikam v6.x (et en cours 
avec la v7.0rc)
Ce projet utilise Deep Neural Network 
 de 
la bibliothèque OpenCV.

Pas mal de faux positifs — pas gênant — qui disparaissent après apprentissage.
Mais aussi des faux négatifs : 1 seul ou quelques visages détectés sur une 
photo de groupe ou de foule :(

J'aimerais tester ton script avec ces photos pour voir si il se débrouille 
mieux.

A terme, peut-on se partager nos réseaux entrainés ?

Par exemple j'entraine l'algo avec mes photos Street View.
D'autres font la même chose de leur coté.

A un moment donné on partage nos réseaux et on les fusionne dans le but 
d'améliorer la fiabilité de la détection.
Est-ce envisageable ?

__
Yves

PS: pour la mise en ligne, est-ce possible de mettre un champ pour télécharger 
un fichier, et un autre pour indiquer une URL d'une image déjà en ligne (sur 
Wikimedia par exemple) ?
Ou une simple URL et/ou on se débrouille avec CURL pour envoyer notre photo ?

PS bis : Machine Learning Notebooks .
C'est un dépôt GitHub avec des exercices sous forme de "carnets" Jupiter pour 
apprendre les bases de l'apprentissage automatique (machine learning) en python.
L'auteur est français. Il a publié ce printemps Deep Learning avec Keras et 
TensorFlow - 2e édition 



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[Talk-GB] UPRN & USRN Tagging

[Tony OSM]

As we have access to the data and Robert Whittaker has produced a great 
UPRN locations map, how are we planning to tag OSM objects?


ref:UK:uprn and ref:UK:usrn

have been suggested as tags - I think this is the way to go.


There is also Key:ref:NPLG:UPRN:1 in the wiki.


Question: Should uprn be applied to the building outline or to a node?

The OS data applies them as nodes, they are assigned by local 
authorities to a location as a node.


The uprn is applied to many objects even bus shelters, and individual 
flats within a block; there may be what appear to be duplicates.


I suggest that for OSM buildings or building parts which are 
individually linkable to a uprn then the uprn is assigned to the 
building way outline; otherwise to an OSM node if the mapper deems 
appropriate


Tony Shield    ---   TonyS999

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] GoGoCarto --- demande d'information

[Yves P.]

> Et notamment cette carte qui m’intéresse particulièrement 
> https://owater.gogocarto.fr/annuaire#/carte/divonne@42.93,4.51,8z?cat=all 
>  
> 
> Est-ce qu'il y a des utilisateurs de GoGoCarto parmi les utilisateurs d’OSM 
> ou est-ce plutôt une communauté d'utilisateurs complètement à part ?
> 
J'ai l'impression que c'est à part

> Ce qui me semble sous optimale avec leur démarche, si je comprends bien, est 
> que les nouvelles contributions du terrain des utilisateurs de GoGoCarto ne 
> sont pas rajoutées à la base de données d’OSM (qui nourrit leurs cartes au 
> moins en partie). 
> 
Oui, la base de données est propre au projet.

Mais en cherchant où se trouve la doc 
,
 on fini par voir qu'il est possible d'importer et d'exporter des données 
(licence ??)

Il faut se créer un compte avant, puis pour les points d'eau c'est :
https://owater.gogocarto.fr/api

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[OSM-talk-fr] GoGoCarto --- demande d'information

[European Water Project]

Bonjour à tous,


Je viens de prendre connaissance de GoGoCarto qui fait partie des nouveaux
outils libres de colibri ? https://gogocarto.fr/projects



https://colibris-outilslibres.org/sortie-de-gogocarto-cartographier-territoires-alternatifs



Et notamment cette carte qui m’intéresse particulièrement
https://owater.gogocarto.fr/annuaire#/carte/divonne@42.93,4.51,8z?cat=all



Est-ce qu'il y a des utilisateurs de GoGoCarto parmi les utilisateurs d’OSM
ou est-ce plutôt une communauté d'utilisateurs complètement à part ?


Ce qui me semble sous optimale avec leur démarche, si je comprends bien,
est que les nouvelles contributions du terrain des utilisateurs de
GoGoCarto ne sont pas rajoutées à la base de données d’OSM (qui nourrit
leurs cartes au moins en partie).


Merci,


Stuart
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Re: [talk-au] Restricted postcodes due to Covid-19

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 03.07.20 15:46, Bren Barnes wrote:
> Perhaps more of a thought experiment at this time, but how would
> "restricted postcodes" interact with OSM routing? Example:
> 
> boundary=administrative
> name=brooklyn
> access:covid19=private
> or?
> opening_hours:covid19=restricted @ (Jul 02-Jul 29)
> 
> I'm just wondering if any current OSM routing software would utilise the
> tags on a relation which is bounding a lockdown area?

Sounds more like a task for a routing engine that supports "avoid
areas", e.g. ORS. With a little coding you could build a version of that
that would always draw on the latest list of blocked areas without
having to mirror day-to-day policy changes in OSM.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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[talk-au] Restricted postcodes due to Covid-19

[Bren Barnes]

Hi all,

Previously north-west Tasmania experienced a local lockdown in April, the
Kimberley region closed, reopening in June except access into remote
communities, and now specific Melbourne suburbs have also gone into local
lockdowns. Due to the uncertainty of a health crisis, there's always
consideration of further local lockdowns if declared by the relevant
authority.

More information on the current lockdown specifics in Melbourne:
Residents inside postcodes -
https://www.dhhs.vic.gov.au/restrictions-restricted-postcodes-covid-19
Residents outside postcodes -
https://www.dhhs.vic.gov.au/restrictions-outside-restricted-postcodes-covid-19

Perhaps more of a thought experiment at this time, but how would
"restricted postcodes" interact with OSM routing? Example:

boundary=administrative
name=brooklyn
access:covid19=private
or?
opening_hours:covid19=restricted @ (Jul 02-Jul 29)

I'm just wondering if any current OSM routing software would utilise the
tags on a relation which is bounding a lockdown area?

On a similar topic, have any state and territory border Covid-19 road
closures and checkpoints been mapped into OSM by local mappers? For example
the WA border closed 5 April with no clear date of reopening yet.
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[OSM-talk-be] administrative boundaries - municipalities - gemeenten - communes

[Pierre Parmentier]

Hello,

Is anyone still in a position to give the references of the sources
available at the time of the introduction into OSM of the communal
boundaries in Belgium?

Pierre P.
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Alternatives à Mapillary

[Francois Gouget]

On Mon, 22 Jun 2020, Tyndare wrote:
[...]

> Perso je trouve que flouter le visage n'est pas suffisant pour le 
> respect de la vie privée, Facebook se vente d'être capable de 
> reconnaître les gens à leur démarche, même de dos.

Il est peut-être possible d'utiliser d'autres éléments mais comme là on 
n'a que des images fixes on ne peut pas les reconnaître à leur démarche.


> J'ai testé le modèle préentrainé suivant pour flouter les personnes en 
> entier des images que j'envoie sur Mapillary et je trouve que ça marche 
> assez bien même si ce n'est pas parfait:

Est-ce que cet algo floute les plaques d'immatriculation ? Parce que 
c'est le deuxième plus important élément à flouter après les visages (et 
probablement indispensable d'un point de vue légal).



-- 
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[OSM-talk-fr] OverPass et rue sans éclairage en ville

[Percherie OnDaNet]

Bonjour,


Je suis en train de regarder comment extraire les voies sans éclairage 
en ville et les voies principale hors aglo. Je part de la requête suivante :


[out:json][timeout:250];
(
  way["highway"][!"lit"]({{bbox}})(if: length() > 30);
);
// print results
out body;

;

out skel qt;

Comment ajouter une zone englobante ayant les tags suivant  : 
landuse=residential|retail|commercial|industrial


En dehors de ces zones, je compte exclure les tag suivant : 
highway=track|path|road


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Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

[Tony OSM]

The £1000 data rules are at https://osdatahub.os.uk/ and the pricing tab 
https://osdatahub.os.uk/plans


States:::


 What is the difference between an OS OpenData plan and a Premium plan?

*Our OS OpenData plan* ensures you only consume OS OpenData. It locks 
down calls to our APIs so that you can never accidentally use or be 
charged for our Premium Data.


The OS OpenData plan is free to use for any purpose, including providing 
services from which you make a profit.


You can always upgrade to a Premium plan later which will unlock our 
Premium Data for you to use.


*Our Premium plan * opens up the use of our Premium Data. This is our 
most detailed mapping and geospatial feature data. You receive £1,000 of 
free Premium Data transactions each month on a use-it-or-lose-it basis. 
Once you've used up your free credit we'll either start charging for 
further Premium Data usage or, if you don't provide payment details, 
we'll pause your ability to make calls to our Premium Data until the 
next month when you receive another £1,000 of free Premium Data^* 
 .




On 03/07/2020 12:28, David Woolley wrote:

On 03/07/2020 11:23, Tony OSM wrote:


There was a reference to £1000 worth of data being made free each 
month to individual users - can't find out how this works yet. This 
may allow us as individuals to populate OSM and OSM essentially 
aggregates the data - rather like postcode data.


Generally reconstructing a database piecemeal is considered no 
different from copying a substantial part in one go.


I suspect the reality with postcodes is that the the Post Office 
doesn't see collection of individual codes from the relevant business 
or resident as a significant risk, as they don't believe anyone will 
construct a sufficiently complete database that way.


Unlike natural features, both postcodes and telephone numbers start 
their life as entries in databases, but both of them need to be known 
to contacts of a person without the need for formally entering into a 
licence agreement.


However, if every user used their free quota of postcode searches each 
day, I think the Post Office would take action.


Normally when limited searches are allowed, there is also a personal 
use only restriction applied.



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Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

[David Woolley]

On 03/07/2020 11:23, Tony OSM wrote:


There was a reference to £1000 worth of data being made free each month 
to individual users - can't find out how this works yet. This may allow 
us as individuals to populate OSM and OSM essentially aggregates the 
data - rather like postcode data.


Generally reconstructing a database piecemeal is considered no different 
from copying a substantial part in one go.


I suspect the reality with postcodes is that the the Post Office doesn't 
see collection of individual codes from the relevant business or 
resident as a significant risk, as they don't believe anyone will 
construct a sufficiently complete database that way.


Unlike natural features, both postcodes and telephone numbers start 
their life as entries in databases, but both of them need to be known to 
contacts of a person without the need for formally entering into a 
licence agreement.


However, if every user used their free quota of postcode searches each 
day, I think the Post Office would take action.


Normally when limited searches are allowed, there is also a personal use 
only restriction applied.



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Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

[Andy Mabbett]

On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 at 17:38, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists)
 wrote:
>
> I've set up a quick slippy map with the UPRN locations shown:
>
> https://osm.mathmos.net/addresses/uprn/ (zoom in to level 16 to show the data)

Thank you.

> The UPRN dataset literally just contains the UPRN number and its
> coordinates (both OS National Grid and WGS lat/lon).

For England at least, UPRNs can be turned into web links, in the format:


https://flood-warning-information.service.gov.uk/long-term-flood-risk/risk?address=100023336956

which allows the address to be verified.

We're planning to import UPRNs into Wikidata; here's the above value,
for example:

   https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q169101#P8399

so for notable buildings at least, a reverse lookup will be possible,
using the Wikidata API, or, for example:

   
https://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-todo/resolver.php?prop=P8399=100023336956


-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

[Tony OSM]

Thanks Russ - didn't know about https://os.openstreetmap.org/

Free beer or free speech -  I'm looking at.

T

On 03/07/2020 11:35, Russ Garrett wrote:

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 at 11:24, Tony OSM  wrote:

There was a reference to £1000 worth of data being made free each month
to individual users - can't find out how this works yet. This may allow
us as individuals to populate OSM and OSM essentially aggregates the
data - rather like postcode data. I am researching the site to find out
how this works.

I'm fairly sure that's "free as in beer" and not "free as in speech",
and the data will still be subject to a restrictive license which is
incompatible with OSM.


OS have also made maps downloadable as images 'OS OpenMap Local' - I did
OS square SD, this provides a map picture, I checked out a new housing
estate and it has the street names - not currently in OSM (haven't put
them in yet). So the OS data is useful. For that SD square they provide
hundreds of files based on their method of 10km  map references with 4
sections per 10 km - NW,NE,SW,SE. Not easy to use, an overlay of
sections is required. This is updated regularly so can replace OS Open
Data Streetview which I believe to be no longer updated.

OpenMap Local is already available on https://os.openstreetmap.org/
and presumably it will percolate down into editors in due course.



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[Talk-gb-westmidlands] FW: HS2 in Birmingham update: Park Street Closure from this weekend

[Andy Robinson]

“From 5th July we're permanently closing a section of Birmingham’s Park Street.”

 

Cheers

Andy

 

 

From: Commonplace [mailto:supp...@commonplace.is] 
Sent: 03 July 2020 11:29
To: andy.robin...@boregis.com
Subject: HS2 in Birmingham update: Park Street Closure from this weekend

 


Text Box: HS2 in Birmingham news

 





>From 5th July we're permanently closing a section of Birmingham’s Park Street. 
>It's to prepare for the construction of Curzon Street Station, which will be 
>at the heart of the high speed rail network. More details are available on the 
>works in your area page.



Read update


Button does not work? Try this link. Like to ask a question to the project team 
about this update or the project? Email  

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Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

[Nick]

Hi Tony

Thanks for that - my thinking have been that when I run my query on a 
single UPRN, I am retrieving the contents of the page as text on my 
personal computer and then processing the data for non-commercial use. 
If I then use that data to create or verify the address on a property 
plotted on OSM is that the issue? To be honest, my personal interest is 
a) getting address data on maps so that it will save lives (I speak from 
personal experience) and b) to check and correct errors in the public 
gazetteer (e.g. OneScotlandGazetteer but also Royal Mail).


It will be interesting if in the future, if calling for emergency 
services people will be asked to give their UPRN.


I actually think that at the root of the problem is the "philosophy of 
what is an address" so that I know how I can add address data to OSM - I 
am happy to acknowledge the source on OSM.


Cheers

Nick
On 03/07/2020 11:23, Tony OSM wrote:
I spent part of yesterday navigating the relevant OS and LandRegistry 
sites and trying to figure out what we can do.


We can basically put UPRN and USRN into OSM freely - the license is 
written to enable that.  OS have also separated out the ability to 
match UPRN and USRN to address and street records - essentially they 
are creating an index into their MasterMap products which are behind a 
paywall. So anybody who wants to pay -  possibly Logistics companies - 
can find exactly where their van has to go, more accurate than a 
postcode.


OS also seem to have been careful not to place UPRN and USRN data into 
their other free products so as to make cross referencing difficult.


There was a reference to £1000 worth of data being made free each 
month to individual users - can't find out how this works yet. This 
may allow us as individuals to populate OSM and OSM essentially 
aggregates the data - rather like postcode data. I am researching the 
site to find out how this works.


OS have also made maps downloadable as images 'OS OpenMap Local' - I 
did OS square SD, this provides a map picture, I checked out a new 
housing estate and it has the street names - not currently in OSM 
(haven't put them in yet). So the OS data is useful. For that SD 
square they provide hundreds of files based on their method of 10km  
map references with 4 sections per 10 km - NW,NE,SW,SE. Not easy to 
use, an overlay of sections is required. This is updated regularly so 
can replace OS Open Data Streetview which I believe to be no longer 
updated.


Leaving aside the philosophy of what is an address  - a UPRN in OSM 
will allow users such as logistics companies to accurately plan their 
routes. Logistics companies can be encouraged to add UPRN's and 
addresses and continue to use OSM freely.



Regards

TonyS999




On 02/07/2020 17:38, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote:

I'm not completely sure if/how we can best make use of the new OS
OpenData (UPRNs, USRNs and related links) in OpenStreetMap, but as a
first step I've set up a quick slippy map with the UPRN locations
shown:

https://osm.mathmos.net/addresses/uprn/ (zoom in to level 16 to show 
the data)


The UPRN dataset literally just contains the UPRN number and its
coordinates (both OS National Grid and WGS lat/lon). There are some
additional linking datasets that link these ids to other ids (e.g.
USRNs, TOIDs). But no address information is available directly. (You
may be able to get street names by matching to OS Open Roads via TOIDs
though. Coupled with Code-Point Open, you might be able to assign
quite a few postcodes in cases where there's only one unit for a whole
street.)

The UPRN data has already helped me find a mapping error I made
locally though -- it looks like I'd accidentally missed drawing a
house outline from aerial imagery, and also classified a large garage
a few doors down as a house. The two errors cancelled out when the
houses were numbered sequentially, so I didn't notice until now. Today
though I spotted a UPRN marker over some blank space on the map, and
no marker over the mapped house that's probably a garage.

Now a few initial thoughts on the data that I've explored so far:

I believe that the UPRNs are assigned by local authorities, so
conventions may vary from place to place. I don't know who actually
assigns the coordinates (authority or OS). Looking at those for rows
of houses around me, they don't seem to have been automatically given
coordinates from the house footprint, it looks more like someone
manually clicking on a map.

The UPRN dataset should include all addressable properties. It is also
ahead of reality in some places, as it includes locations for houses
on a new development near me that have yet to be built yet. For blocks
of apartments/flats, the UPRN nodes may all have the same coordinates
or may be displaced from each other, possibly in an artificial manner.

Other objects also appear to have UPRNs. Likely things I've noticed so
far include: car parks, post boxes, telephone boxes (even after
they've been 

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

[Russ Garrett]

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 at 11:24, Tony OSM  wrote:
> There was a reference to £1000 worth of data being made free each month
> to individual users - can't find out how this works yet. This may allow
> us as individuals to populate OSM and OSM essentially aggregates the
> data - rather like postcode data. I am researching the site to find out
> how this works.

I'm fairly sure that's "free as in beer" and not "free as in speech",
and the data will still be subject to a restrictive license which is
incompatible with OSM.

> OS have also made maps downloadable as images 'OS OpenMap Local' - I did
> OS square SD, this provides a map picture, I checked out a new housing
> estate and it has the street names - not currently in OSM (haven't put
> them in yet). So the OS data is useful. For that SD square they provide
> hundreds of files based on their method of 10km  map references with 4
> sections per 10 km - NW,NE,SW,SE. Not easy to use, an overlay of
> sections is required. This is updated regularly so can replace OS Open
> Data Streetview which I believe to be no longer updated.

OpenMap Local is already available on https://os.openstreetmap.org/
and presumably it will percolate down into editors in due course.

-- 
Russ Garrett
r...@garrett.co.uk

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Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

[Tony OSM]

I spent part of yesterday navigating the relevant OS and LandRegistry 
sites and trying to figure out what we can do.


We can basically put UPRN and USRN into OSM freely - the license is 
written to enable that.  OS have also separated out the ability to match 
UPRN and USRN to address and street records - essentially they are 
creating an index into their MasterMap products which are behind a 
paywall. So anybody who wants to pay -  possibly Logistics companies - 
can find exactly where their van has to go, more accurate than a postcode.


OS also seem to have been careful not to place UPRN and USRN data into 
their other free products so as to make cross referencing difficult.


There was a reference to £1000 worth of data being made free each month 
to individual users - can't find out how this works yet. This may allow 
us as individuals to populate OSM and OSM essentially aggregates the 
data - rather like postcode data. I am researching the site to find out 
how this works.


OS have also made maps downloadable as images 'OS OpenMap Local' - I did 
OS square SD, this provides a map picture, I checked out a new housing 
estate and it has the street names - not currently in OSM (haven't put 
them in yet). So the OS data is useful. For that SD square they provide 
hundreds of files based on their method of 10km  map references with 4 
sections per 10 km - NW,NE,SW,SE. Not easy to use, an overlay of 
sections is required. This is updated regularly so can replace OS Open 
Data Streetview which I believe to be no longer updated.


Leaving aside the philosophy of what is an address  - a UPRN in OSM will 
allow users such as logistics companies to accurately plan their routes. 
Logistics companies can be encouraged to add UPRN's and addresses and 
continue to use OSM freely.



Regards

TonyS999




On 02/07/2020 17:38, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote:

I'm not completely sure if/how we can best make use of the new OS
OpenData (UPRNs, USRNs and related links) in OpenStreetMap, but as a
first step I've set up a quick slippy map with the UPRN locations
shown:

https://osm.mathmos.net/addresses/uprn/ (zoom in to level 16 to show the data)

The UPRN dataset literally just contains the UPRN number and its
coordinates (both OS National Grid and WGS lat/lon). There are some
additional linking datasets that link these ids to other ids (e.g.
USRNs, TOIDs). But no address information is available directly. (You
may be able to get street names by matching to OS Open Roads via TOIDs
though. Coupled with Code-Point Open, you might be able to assign
quite a few postcodes in cases where there's only one unit for a whole
street.)

The UPRN data has already helped me find a mapping error I made
locally though -- it looks like I'd accidentally missed drawing a
house outline from aerial imagery, and also classified a large garage
a few doors down as a house. The two errors cancelled out when the
houses were numbered sequentially, so I didn't notice until now. Today
though I spotted a UPRN marker over some blank space on the map, and
no marker over the mapped house that's probably a garage.

Now a few initial thoughts on the data that I've explored so far:

I believe that the UPRNs are assigned by local authorities, so
conventions may vary from place to place. I don't know who actually
assigns the coordinates (authority or OS). Looking at those for rows
of houses around me, they don't seem to have been automatically given
coordinates from the house footprint, it looks more like someone
manually clicking on a map.

The UPRN dataset should include all addressable properties. It is also
ahead of reality in some places, as it includes locations for houses
on a new development near me that have yet to be built yet. For blocks
of apartments/flats, the UPRN nodes may all have the same coordinates
or may be displaced from each other, possibly in an artificial manner.

Other objects also appear to have UPRNs. Likely things I've noticed so
far include: car parks, post boxes, telephone boxes (even after
they've been removed), electricity sub-stations, roads and recorded
footpaths (the UPRN locations seem to be at one end of the street, so
usually lie at a junction), recreation grounds / play areas,
floodlight poles (around sports pitches), and allotments. There's no
information about the object type in the UPRN data unfortunately.

Anyway, I hope some of this is useful / interesting. I hope to be on
the OSMUK call on Saturday to discuss things further. Best wishes,

Robert.



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Re: [Diversity-talk] Help for SotM needed

[Heather Leson]

Thanks! Will send to diversity list (cc)

I have some work meetings tomorrow am but will try to say hi.


Truly know how hard it is to coordinate online sessions. Maybe a random est
timezone one would be great too.


Wish we were all together
H

On Thu, 2 Jul 2020, 19:56 Christine Karch,  wrote:

> Hi!
>
> I set up the BigBlueButton room for the girl's breakfast tomorrow.
>
> The channel is
>
> https://osmvideo.cloud68.co/user/chr-7a6-qq7
>
> You are all invited to join and please invite all OpenStreetMap women
> you have in your networks. There is no serious plan for this session. It
> is just for to get to know each other or to meet again each other and
> strengthen a bit the womens network in OSM. We make a intruction round
> and than chitchat as we like. Drink our coffee or tea or whatever
> togehter :)
>
> I plan an hour. But if you like you also can stay longer. And we can
> extend, repeat it during the weekend.
>
> See you tomorrow :)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Christine
>
>
> p.s. Please share with other OSM women !
>
>
>
>
> Am 02.07.20 um 16:54 schrieb Jorieke Vyncke:
> > Hi Christine and all,
> > Also a late reply from my side, sorry for that. I'm not really having
> > the energy for chairing this year, I'll try to just join for sessions
> > this year!
> > Good luck, and see you soon all online :)
> > Jorieke
> >
> > Op di 30 jun. 2020 om 16:52 schreef Kathleen Lu  > >:
> >
> > Hi Christine,
> > I got a message that my talk time had changed. Are the volunteer
> > session blocks still the same?
> > -Kathleen
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 6:00 AM Christine Karch
> > mailto:christ...@hermione.de>> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Miriam,
> >
> > all beside sessions are organized in the wiki:
> >
> >
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_of_the_Map_2020/self-organized_sessions#Sponsor_Booths
> >
> > There is also a link to that wiki page on the SotM homepage. I
> > will tell
> > the team to make it larger :)
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Christine
> >
> >
> > Am 30.06.20 um 14:50 schrieb Miriam Mapanauta:
> > > Hi Christine,
> > >
> > > I don't see in the program the Friday event, could you let me
> > know where
> > > it has been promoted so I can also share it in Geochicas
> > networks.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Miriam
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 7:02 PM Christine Karch
> > mailto:christ...@hermione.de>
> > > >>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > There is no need to do anything, just join :) We will make
> an
> > > introduction round to get to know each other and then some
> > chitchat
> > > around what attendees are interested or have questions.
> > Nothing great,
> > > just socializing :)
> > >
> > >
> > > Am 29.06.20 um 17:52 schrieb Miriam Mapanauta:
> > > > Thanks for the reminder about the Friday event @Melanie
> > Eckle
> > > >  >   > >>
> > > >
> > > > Hi @Christine Karch  > 
> > >  > >>
> > > > what it needs tio be done for Friday networking event?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Miriam
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 5:07 PM Eckle, Melanie
> > > mailto:ec...@uni-heidelberg.de>
> >  >>
> > > >  >   >  > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello Christine and all,
> > > >
> > > > I am very sorry for my very late response.
> > > >
> > > > I tried to move other appointments around, but will
> > not be
> > > able to join
> > > > the SotM long enough every day to host a session
> > unfortunately.
> > > >
> > > > @Miriam: I will also try to be there Friday for the
> > women
> > > networking
> > > > event!
> > > >
> > > > I hope I can be of more support again next year and
> > am sending
> > > best
> > > > wishes,
> > > >
> > > > Melanie
> >  

Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

[Russ Garrett]

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 at 10:26, Nick  wrote:
> I was wondering about that - I checked on https://osg.scot/portal/ to
> check licensing and could not see anything relevant when searching for
> individual UPRNs.

Even if you ignore the bit about OS copyright, it says "You may
retrieve and display Content from the Site on a computer screen, print
individual pages on paper and store such pages in electronic form on
disk (but not on any server or other storage device connected to a
network) for your personal, non-commercial use provided that you
acknowledge the copyright owner."

This is (definitely) not compatible with OSM.

I'm a bit surprised that they claim the link between UPRN and address
is not covered by OS copyright. But at any rate, it doesn't matter as
their own license is pretty much equally restrictive.

> This introduces an interesting debate regarding addresses. As far as I
> know the PostCode is under license from Royal Mail - if so does that
> mean we should not put that on buildings plotted in OSM? From personal
> experience, I know that Local Authorities do make mistakes and UPRNs
> with associated data (address etc.) can be incorrect, including UPRNs in
> the wrong location. The tool I developed was to enable me to verify
> address data - I do that by also checking the Roayl Mail address finder.

Post codes themselves are not protected. If you get the post code from
a company's website, or you ask someone their post code, that's
*usually* fair game.

The *collection* of post codes in the Royal Mail PAF (or OS
AddressBase) is considered a database, and will be subject to the
database right. This is what prevents you from copying them from those
sources into OSM.

There's a bit more info here:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Copyright_information_for_UK_mappers

-- 
Russ Garrett
r...@garrett.co.uk

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Euskal Herria

[Yves P.]

> Nul part on ne met le nom en langue native entre parenthèse : ça fout le 
> bordel !
> 
Faut-pas titiller les bretons sur les questions de langues :D

> Sinon une relation boundary sans boundary= c'est de la branlette 
> intellectuelle.
> 

Pour la branlette j'ai la primeur :P

J'espère que tu sera mieux compris que moi ;)

__
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Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

[Nick]

Hi Russ

I was wondering about that - I checked on https://osg.scot/portal/ to 
check licensing and could not see anything relevant when searching for 
individual UPRNs.


This introduces an interesting debate regarding addresses. As far as I 
know the PostCode is under license from Royal Mail - if so does that 
mean we should not put that on buildings plotted in OSM? From personal 
experience, I know that Local Authorities do make mistakes and UPRNs 
with associated data (address etc.) can be incorrect, including UPRNs in 
the wrong location. The tool I developed was to enable me to verify 
address data - I do that by also checking the Roayl Mail address finder.


Perhaps you can shed some light on the tangle of relevant licensing?

Cheers

Nick

On 03/07/2020 10:07, Russ Garrett wrote:

Just to emphasise that the output from your script is not suitable for
use in OSM - the osg.scot license forbids it.

Russ

On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 at 23:17, Nick  wrote:

Hi Peter

re: "I am still not clear how best to use the data available" - I have written 
a simple bit of VBA that enables address data to be retrieved for a given UPRN (I attach 
the VBA used in a form for Excel) - this only works for Scotland but may be available 
elsewhere. Using the concept you can use Python (a friend has done some preliminary work) 
or similar. This is not elegant but is perhaps a first step in enabling a whole lot of 
development?

Cheers

Nick


On 02/07/2020 18:38, Peter Neale via Talk-GB wrote:

Hi Robert,

Many thanks for producing that map.

I was able to look at my street and see a blue pin in each of the building 
outlines that I had mapped from aerial imagery, so that gave me a warm, smug 
feeling :)

I too noticed some not-yet-there properties in a nearby development that had UPRNs 
assigned - Not a problem really (IMHO).  There is also one allocated to a pond near me; I 
didn't know that was "addressable"!

However, I am still not clear how best to use the data available, if you can't use it to 
look up the address of the property.  Similarly, I am not sure how a data consumer could 
use the data, if we laboriously edited every property in OSM to include a 
"ref:GB:UPRN=" tag (or similar; other tags are available.).

Sorry not to be able to contribute something more useful... :(

Regards,
Peter



On Thursday, 2 July 2020, 17:40:51 BST, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) 
 wrote:


I'm not completely sure if/how we can best make use of the new OS
OpenData (UPRNs, USRNs and related links) in OpenStreetMap, but as a
first step I've set up a quick slippy map with the UPRN locations
shown:

https://osm.mathmos.net/addresses/uprn/ (zoom in to level 16 to show the data)

The UPRN dataset literally just contains the UPRN number and its
coordinates (both OS National Grid and WGS lat/lon). There are some
additional linking datasets that link these ids to other ids (e.g.
USRNs, TOIDs). But no address information is available directly. (You
may be able to get street names by matching to OS Open Roads via TOIDs
though. Coupled with Code-Point Open, you might be able to assign
quite a few postcodes in cases where there's only one unit for a whole
street.)

The UPRN data has already helped me find a mapping error I made
locally though -- it looks like I'd accidentally missed drawing a
house outline from aerial imagery, and also classified a large garage
a few doors down as a house. The two errors cancelled out when the
houses were numbered sequentially, so I didn't notice until now. Today
though I spotted a UPRN marker over some blank space on the map, and
no marker over the mapped house that's probably a garage.

Now a few initial thoughts on the data that I've explored so far:

I believe that the UPRNs are assigned by local authorities, so
conventions may vary from place to place. I don't know who actually
assigns the coordinates (authority or OS). Looking at those for rows
of houses around me, they don't seem to have been automatically given
coordinates from the house footprint, it looks more like someone
manually clicking on a map.

The UPRN dataset should include all addressable properties. It is also
ahead of reality in some places, as it includes locations for houses
on a new development near me that have yet to be built yet. For blocks
of apartments/flats, the UPRN nodes may all have the same coordinates
or may be displaced from each other, possibly in an artificial manner.

Other objects also appear to have UPRNs. Likely things I've noticed so
far include: car parks, post boxes, telephone boxes (even after
they've been removed), electricity sub-stations, roads and recorded
footpaths (the UPRN locations seem to be at one end of the street, so
usually lie at a junction), recreation grounds / play areas,
floodlight poles (around sports pitches), and allotments. There's no
information about the object type in the UPRN data unfortunately.

Anyway, I hope some of this is useful / interesting. I hope to be on
the OSMUK call on Saturday 

Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Euskal Herria

[osm . sanspourriel]

C'est surtout faux.

Nul part on ne met le nom en langue native entre parenthèse : ça fout le
bordel !

Et non "Baskenland (Euskal Herria)" n'est pas le nom en allemand.

Et non l'Allemand n'est pas une langue officielle du Pays Basque espagnol.

=> donc Baskenland.

C'est valable aussi pour name:fr.

Pour :es  je ne sais ce qui
est correct (*/País Vasco
/*,
Vasconia). Pour :br ça va même si en breton c'est Bro-Vask.

Il n'a pas ajouté Euskal Herria (Pays Basque) et c'est normal.

Sinon une relation boundary sans boundary= c'est de la branlette
intellectuelle.

Le 03/07/2020 à 10:11, Yves P. - yves.prat...@gmail.com a écrit :

Maladroit je ne sais pas; mais inutile, compliqué et portant à
confusion, oui.


  * la langue basque est officielle coté espagnol, donc que met on
dans name ?

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[OSM-talk-fr] The Map in 360 - demain 17:00 (Paris) — State of the Map 2020

[Yves P.]

Bonjour,

Voici une présentation en ligne qui peut vous intéresser : 
https://2020.stateofthemap.org/sessions/YTHZWC/ 

Elle est faite par Said Turksever , un 
développeur Milanais de… Mapillary.

__
Yves





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Re: [OSM-talk-ie] brand=*

[Donal Hunt]

Colm,

Thanks for this. I touched on this with regard www.stayingopen.ie and
recognised that more documentation / clarity on tagging could be useful.

In Ireland, we're kind of bad with naming (there's always the official name
and the "local" name(s)!!). Specifically, clarity on what should be entered
for name, brand, operator, owner and branch.

I think the wiki actually does a relatively OK job of setting expectations
but mappers may not always be aware of how a business is operating. Is it a
franchise or just a business with multiple locations?

Comments and thoughts welcome!

Donal

On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 11:02 PM Colm Moore  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Over the last month I have been tidying up brand=* and associated name=*
> and operator=* tags, with 2,000-3,000 changes. It should make finding all
> (mapped) branches of a chain easier to find - no more Applegreen,
> AppleGreen, Apple Green, etc. brand:wikidata and brand:wikipedia have also
> be populated for lots of the entries.
>
> However, I can't personally check every shop and petrol station in the
> country, so I would be grateful if people could keep an eye out on the
> following brands in particular?
>
>   1.  Topaz - are these now all Circle K / Circle K Express?
>   2.  Excol / ExCol - what have these rebranded to?
>   3.  02 - are these now all some version of 3 / Three?
>   4.  First Trust / First Trust Bank - are these now all AIB?
>   5.  ACC Bank - no longer exists as a bank.
>   6.  Irish Nationwide - no longer exists
>   7.  National Irish Bank - should be Danske Bank.
>   8.  Halfords - is this the same as Halfords Autocentre? Do they all do
> car parts and bikes?
>   9.  There will also be other petrol stations and shops that don't have
> any name, brand or operator tagged.
>   10. St. Vincent de Paul - this operates under different names for
> different functions. If anyone understand the details, could they contact
> me?
>
> In the meantime, if anyone see any egregious errors, please let me know. :)
>
> Colm
>
>
> ---
> Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
> change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead
> ___
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> Talk-ie@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
>


-- 
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OpenStreetMap Ireland
donal.h...@openstreetmap.ie | +353 87 8175123
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Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

[Russ Garrett]

Just to emphasise that the output from your script is not suitable for
use in OSM - the osg.scot license forbids it.

Russ

On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 at 23:17, Nick  wrote:
>
> Hi Peter
>
> re: "I am still not clear how best to use the data available" - I have 
> written a simple bit of VBA that enables address data to be retrieved for a 
> given UPRN (I attach the VBA used in a form for Excel) - this only works for 
> Scotland but may be available elsewhere. Using the concept you can use Python 
> (a friend has done some preliminary work) or similar. This is not elegant but 
> is perhaps a first step in enabling a whole lot of development?
>
> Cheers
>
> Nick
>
>
> On 02/07/2020 18:38, Peter Neale via Talk-GB wrote:
>
> Hi Robert,
>
> Many thanks for producing that map.
>
> I was able to look at my street and see a blue pin in each of the building 
> outlines that I had mapped from aerial imagery, so that gave me a warm, smug 
> feeling :)
>
> I too noticed some not-yet-there properties in a nearby development that had 
> UPRNs assigned - Not a problem really (IMHO).  There is also one allocated to 
> a pond near me; I didn't know that was "addressable"!
>
> However, I am still not clear how best to use the data available, if you 
> can't use it to look up the address of the property.  Similarly, I am not 
> sure how a data consumer could use the data, if we laboriously edited every 
> property in OSM to include a "ref:GB:UPRN=" tag (or similar; other tags are 
> available.).
>
> Sorry not to be able to contribute something more useful... :(
>
> Regards,
> Peter
>
>
>
> On Thursday, 2 July 2020, 17:40:51 BST, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) 
>  wrote:
>
>
> I'm not completely sure if/how we can best make use of the new OS
> OpenData (UPRNs, USRNs and related links) in OpenStreetMap, but as a
> first step I've set up a quick slippy map with the UPRN locations
> shown:
>
> https://osm.mathmos.net/addresses/uprn/ (zoom in to level 16 to show the data)
>
> The UPRN dataset literally just contains the UPRN number and its
> coordinates (both OS National Grid and WGS lat/lon). There are some
> additional linking datasets that link these ids to other ids (e.g.
> USRNs, TOIDs). But no address information is available directly. (You
> may be able to get street names by matching to OS Open Roads via TOIDs
> though. Coupled with Code-Point Open, you might be able to assign
> quite a few postcodes in cases where there's only one unit for a whole
> street.)
>
> The UPRN data has already helped me find a mapping error I made
> locally though -- it looks like I'd accidentally missed drawing a
> house outline from aerial imagery, and also classified a large garage
> a few doors down as a house. The two errors cancelled out when the
> houses were numbered sequentially, so I didn't notice until now. Today
> though I spotted a UPRN marker over some blank space on the map, and
> no marker over the mapped house that's probably a garage.
>
> Now a few initial thoughts on the data that I've explored so far:
>
> I believe that the UPRNs are assigned by local authorities, so
> conventions may vary from place to place. I don't know who actually
> assigns the coordinates (authority or OS). Looking at those for rows
> of houses around me, they don't seem to have been automatically given
> coordinates from the house footprint, it looks more like someone
> manually clicking on a map.
>
> The UPRN dataset should include all addressable properties. It is also
> ahead of reality in some places, as it includes locations for houses
> on a new development near me that have yet to be built yet. For blocks
> of apartments/flats, the UPRN nodes may all have the same coordinates
> or may be displaced from each other, possibly in an artificial manner.
>
> Other objects also appear to have UPRNs. Likely things I've noticed so
> far include: car parks, post boxes, telephone boxes (even after
> they've been removed), electricity sub-stations, roads and recorded
> footpaths (the UPRN locations seem to be at one end of the street, so
> usually lie at a junction), recreation grounds / play areas,
> floodlight poles (around sports pitches), and allotments. There's no
> information about the object type in the UPRN data unfortunately.
>
> Anyway, I hope some of this is useful / interesting. I hope to be on
> the OSMUK call on Saturday to discuss things further. Best wishes,
>
> Robert.
>
> --
> Robert Whittaker
> https://osm.mathmos.net/
>
> ___
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>
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>
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-- 
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r...@garrett.co.uk

Re: [OSM-talk-fr] JOSM : Sélection > Inverser la Sélection

[leni]

Le 28/06/2020 à 11:50, leni a écrit :



Le 25/06/2020 à 10:34, leni a écrit :

Bonjour,

J'ai rencontré dans l'aide un élément du menu Sélection que je ne 
connaissais pas : 
https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Help/Action/InvertSelection


Je n'arrive pas à trouver les conditions qui le font apparaître (en 
plus du mode avancé)


Sauriez-vous comment faire pour le faire apparaître ?
Merci à Jean-Yvon qui m'a permis de voir que cette action apparaîtra 
avec la version 16701/josm 



Il apparait bien dans la nouvelle version

cordialement

leni

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] JOSM version stable 16731 traduction du Journal des modifications

[Cyrille37 OSM]

Bonjour et merci beaucoup !

Le 03/07/2020 à 10:42, leni a écrit :

Les développeurs ont mis en place la versions stable 16731 de JOSM.

Le Journal (traduit) des modifications apportés par cette version se 
trouve à 
https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Fr%3AChangelog#stable-release-20.06



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Tag pour les services d'un établissement, quand ils sont adaptés aux fauteuils roulants

[Yves P.]

> On a bien un tag pour l'accessibilité du lieu pour les fauteuils roulants, 
> mais je n'ai rien trouvé sur l'accessibilité du service de l'établissement en 
> question. Par exemple, j'ai un club de parapente qui permet aux personnes 
> handicapées de voler, comment je qualifierais ça dans OSM?
> 
> Vu que le service n'est pas dédié au personnes handicapées (mais adapté), ça 
> ne parait pas pertinent d'utiliser "club:for=..." (à l'image du 
> social_facility:for). Peut être for:wheelchair ou disabled=yes?

Version simple:
wheelchair=* ou disabled=* (pour prendre en compte tous les handicaps)

Si le local n'est pas accessible, le service ne doit pas l'être ?

description=* ou wheelchair:description=*. peut préciser que le local ou le 
service ne le sont pas

community_centre:for n'est pas restreint uniquement aux personnes handicapées
Il faudrait proposer able-bodied pour spécifier par exemple *:for 
disabled;able-bodied ?

La page How to map for the needs of people with disabilities 

 et sa discussion peuvent être une piste ?
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[OSM-talk-fr] Rencontre mensuelle du Groupe de Lyon 7/07/2020 - 18h30

[Rene Chalon]

Bonjour à tous,

Les mappeurs OSM de Lyon se rencontrent régulièrement le 2e mardi de 
chaque mois, et chacun peut participer à ces rencontres. Mais comme le 
mardi 14 juillet est férié notre prochain rendez-vous est avancé d'une 
semaine et aura lieu :


le MARDI 7 JUILLET à partir de 18h30

Pour cette dernière réunion avant les vacances nous avons prévu une 
rencontre informelle sur l'herbe dans le jardin public Ouagadougou 
(https://osm.org/go/0Aso9NDok-?m=) ; il s'agit d'une zone gazonnée 
ouverte à toute heure sans clôture ni portail située au nord de la MJC 
Confluence.


Accès : Tramway T1 arrêt « hôtel de région »

Pour ceux qui ne pourront se déplacer, nous avons prévu d’ouvrir une 
visioconférence (mais sans garantie) avec l'outil Jitsi sur : 
https://meeting.rezopole.net/osm-lyon


Si vous souhaitez mettre un sujet particulier à l'ordre du jour vous 
pouvez l'indiquer sur la page du wiki :

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Lyon/Réunion_07_juillet_2020

Venez nombreux !
René Chalon (aka renecha).





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Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

[Robert Quincey]

Hi list,

Just to give you some sort of local authority perspective on this. UPRNs are 
assigned to local authority in 'blocks', i.e. we are given a big range of them 
to use. These are given to us by GeoPlace, who are in charge of coordinating 
all the changes from local authorities LLPGs (Local Land and Property 
Gazetteer) and merging them into a national dataset. There is no hard and fast 
rule on how UPRNs should be assigned to a property. Generally, when a new 
development happens they will be assigned sequentially from the block of UPRNs 
they have, but not necessarily. When a new property is built it may be in the 
middle of a bunch of UPRNs that were created years ago, so the sequential 
numbering goes out of the window.

UPRNs are often assigned before a building is built, so it can be very useful 
for finding plans for new builds. From my experience they are generally placed 
in the middle of a building footprint from OS MasterMap, but not always as 
sometimes there is no footprint available or they have not been recently 
updated. Same with flats, generally all the individual 'seeds' are plonked on 
top of each other, but occasionally they are spread out.

As for their use, to us they are utterly vital and allow us to link datasets 
together from different departments and different organisations and know we are 
looking at the same thing. The opening up of the UPRN should allow better open 
data sharing, but I haven't delved into this much yet, its probably going to 
take time before we see the benefits.

For the OSM community, for now the use might be limited to what you've already 
done, i.e. identifying and verifying buildings, not sure what else you might be 
able to do beyond that without the actual address information, but I'm always 
amazed by the community's ingenuity.

GeoPlace have a decent FAQ section on UPRNs and USRNs - 
https://www.geoplace.co.uk/power-of-place/faqs - As well as a limited 
address/UPRN finder - https://www.findmyaddress.co.uk/search - (goes without 
saying that you shouldn't use data from that address finder in OSM!)

I hope that helps. Admittedly I'm just a developer and not involved in the day 
to day of UPRN and address creation. Bear in mind that each authority probably 
has slightly different ways of doing things, so what's true for Dorset might 
not be true for everyone else. If you have questions about data in your own 
area, look up your local District or County Councils LLPG officer and they will 
probably be able to help.

Thanks,


Rob Quincey - GIS Developer at Dorset Council



From: Peter Neale via Talk-GB 
Sent: 03 July 2020 09:15
To: talk-gb ; Nick 
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

Hi Nick,

Thanks for that.

I regret that my VBA and Python are about as good as my Swahili and Martian.  
(i.e. NOT)

Many years ago, I did a bit (sic) of coding in Basic, Fortran and Algol (look 
them up in the history books) and I used Prolog for my AI project in 1984, but 
since then, I've been gradually relegated to management.

However, I am sure that there are others in this community, who will be much 
better placed than I am to use the code that you  have so kindly provided.

Regards,
Peter



On Thursday, 2 July 2020, 23:19:06 BST, Nick  wrote:



Hi Peter

re: "I am still not clear how best to use the data available" - I have written 
a simple bit of VBA that enables address data to be retrieved for a given UPRN 
(I attach the VBA used in a form for Excel) - this only works for Scotland but 
may be available elsewhere. Using the concept you can use Python (a friend has 
done some preliminary work) or similar. This is not elegant but is perhaps a 
first step in enabling a whole lot of development?

Cheers

Nick


On 02/07/2020 18:38, Peter Neale via Talk-GB wrote:
Hi Robert,

Many thanks for producing that map.

I was able to look at my street and see a blue pin in each of the building 
outlines that I had mapped from aerial imagery, so that gave me a warm, smug 
feeling :)

I too noticed some not-yet-there properties in a nearby development that had 
UPRNs assigned - Not a problem really (IMHO).  There is also one allocated to a 
pond near me; I didn't know that was "addressable"!

However, I am still not clear how best to use the data available, if you can't 
use it to look up the address of the property.  Similarly, I am not sure how a 
data consumer could use the data, if we laboriously edited every property in 
OSM to include a "ref:GB:UPRN=" tag (or similar; other tags are available.).

Sorry not to be able to contribute something more useful... :(

Regards,
Peter



On Thursday, 2 July 2020, 17:40:51 BST, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) 
 wrote:


I'm not completely sure if/how we can best make use of the new OS
OpenData (UPRNs, USRNs and related links) in OpenStreetMap, but as a
first step I've set up a quick slippy map with the UPRN locations
shown:

[OSM-talk-fr] JOSM version stable 16731 traduction du Journal des modifications

[leni]

Bonjour

Les développeurs ont mis en place la versions stable 16731 de JOSM.

Le Journal (traduit) des modifications apportés par cette version se 
trouve à 
https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Fr%3AChangelog#stable-release-20.06


Si vous avez des remarques sur la traduction, n'hésitez pas à le dire.

Cordialement

leni


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Extracteur de fichier GeoJSON correspond aux points d'arrêts et aux lignes à partir d'un fichier GTFS

[leni]

Le 03/07/2020 à 07:22, Gad Jo a écrit :
Je suis en train de reprendre la construction du réseau de bus de 
l'Agglo de Narbonne.
J'ai commencé il y a longtemps avec le schéma de transport V1 et je 
suis en train de tout recontroler pour un passage en V2.
La page de suivis est également est cours de correction car les façon 
de taguer ont changé : 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Narbonne/Transports_en_commun


Je suis intéressé ce qui est indiqué dans l'info lettre de 
transport.data.gouv.fr mais je n'ai rien trouvé concernant la zone de 
Narbonne. Qui publie les jeux de données ?


Le June 30, 2020 2:31:07 PM UTC, "Yves P."  a 
écrit :


Bonjour,

Pour celles et ceux qui veulent cartographier dans OSM les lignes
de transport en commun, transport.data.gouv.fr
 vient d'annoncer ceci dans son
Info-lettre de Juin 2020.

__
Yves


Bonjour

Il semble que c'est le Grand Narbonne qui doit transmettre ses données à 
transport.data.gouv.fr , mais pour 
l'instant je pense qu'ils ne l'ont pas encore fait ; par contre, on 
trouve les arrêts dans 
https://www.data.gouv.fr/fr/datasets/arrets-de-bus-communaute-dagglomeration-le-grand-narbonne/


cordialement

leni

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Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

[Peter Neale via Talk-GB]

Hi Nick,
Thanks for that.
I regret that my VBA and Python are about as good as my Swahili and Martian.  
(i.e. NOT)
Many years ago, I did a bit (sic) of coding in Basic, Fortran and Algol (look 
them up in the history books) and I used Prolog for my AI project in 1984, but 
since then, I've been gradually relegated to management.
However, I am sure that there are others in this community, who will be much 
better placed than I am to use the code that you  have so kindly provided.
Regards,Peter


On Thursday, 2 July 2020, 23:19:06 BST, Nick  wrote:  
 
  
Hi Peter
 
re: "I am still not clear how best to use the data available" - I have written 
a simple bit of VBA that enables address data to be retrieved for a given UPRN 
(I attach the VBA used in a form for Excel) - this only works for Scotland but 
may be available elsewhere. Using the concept you can use Python (a friend has 
done some preliminary work) or similar. This is not elegant but is perhaps a 
first step in enabling a whole lot of development?
 
 
Cheers
 
Nick
 

 
 On 02/07/2020 18:38, Peter Neale via Talk-GB wrote:
  
 
  Hi Robert, 
  Many thanks for producing that map. 
  I was able to look at my street and see a blue pin in each of the building 
outlines that I had mapped from aerial imagery, so that gave me a warm, smug 
feeling :) 
  I too noticed some not-yet-there properties in a nearby development that had 
UPRNs assigned - Not a problem really (IMHO).  There is also one allocated to a 
pond near me; I didn't know that was "addressable"!
  
  However, I am still not clear how best to use the data available, if you 
can't use it to look up the address of the property.  Similarly, I am not sure 
how a data consumer could use the data, if we laboriously edited every property 
in OSM to include a "ref:GB:UPRN=" tag (or similar; other tags are 
available.). 
  Sorry not to be able to contribute something more useful... :( 
Regards, Peter 
 
  
  On Thursday, 2 July 2020, 17:40:51 BST, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) 
 wrote:  
  
   I'm not completely sure if/how we can best make use of the new OS
  OpenData (UPRNs, USRNs and related links) in OpenStreetMap, but as a
  first step I've set up a quick slippy map with the UPRN locations
  shown:
  
  https://osm.mathmos.net/addresses/uprn/ (zoom in to level 16 to show the data)
  
  The UPRN dataset literally just contains the UPRN number and its
  coordinates (both OS National Grid and WGS lat/lon). There are some
  additional linking datasets that link these ids to other ids (e.g.
  USRNs, TOIDs). But no address information is available directly. (You
  may be able to get street names by matching to OS Open Roads via TOIDs
  though. Coupled with Code-Point Open, you might be able to assign
  quite a few postcodes in cases where there's only one unit for a whole
  street.)
  
  The UPRN data has already helped me find a mapping error I made
  locally though -- it looks like I'd accidentally missed drawing a
  house outline from aerial imagery, and also classified a large garage
  a few doors down as a house. The two errors cancelled out when the
  houses were numbered sequentially, so I didn't notice until now. Today
  though I spotted a UPRN marker over some blank space on the map, and
  no marker over the mapped house that's probably a garage.
  
  Now a few initial thoughts on the data that I've explored so far:
  
  I believe that the UPRNs are assigned by local authorities, so
  conventions may vary from place to place. I don't know who actually
  assigns the coordinates (authority or OS). Looking at those for rows
  of houses around me, they don't seem to have been automatically given
  coordinates from the house footprint, it looks more like someone
  manually clicking on a map.
  
  The UPRN dataset should include all addressable properties. It is also
  ahead of reality in some places, as it includes locations for houses
  on a new development near me that have yet to be built yet. For blocks
  of apartments/flats, the UPRN nodes may all have the same coordinates
  or may be displaced from each other, possibly in an artificial manner.
  
  Other objects also appear to have UPRNs. Likely things I've noticed so
  far include: car parks, post boxes, telephone boxes (even after
  they've been removed), electricity sub-stations, roads and recorded
  footpaths (the UPRN locations seem to be at one end of the street, so
  usually lie at a junction), recreation grounds / play areas,
  floodlight poles (around sports pitches), and allotments. There's no
  information about the object type in the UPRN data unfortunately.
  
  Anyway, I hope some of this is useful / interesting. I hope to be on
  the OSMUK call on Saturday to discuss things further. Best wishes,
  
  Robert.
  
  -- 
  Robert Whittaker
  https://osm.mathmos.net/
  
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Du placement de produit (Euskal Herria) ?

[Yves P.]

> je trouve assez maladroit le fait d'ajouter "Euskal Herria" (Pays Basque) 
> dans quasiment toutes les  autres langues sauf ""name, name:fr, name:eu, 
> name:es""
> 
Maladroit je ne sais pas; mais inutile, compliqué et portant à confusion, oui.
> la langue basque est officielle coté espagnol, donc que met on dans name ?
> coté français, la langue officielle est le français
> la relation est sur les 2 pays
Dans certains cantons suisses des villes sont bilingues. Les noms sont en 
français et en dialecte.
On retrouve ça sur les panneaux de circulation routière…
Fribourg/Freiburg 
Biel/Bienne 

Cette solution pourrait-être utilisée pour le pays basque ?
Pourquoi "placement de produit" ?

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Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

[Andy Robinson]

As always Robert you have provided a useful tool and analysis.

Thanks & cheers
Andy

-Original Message-
From: Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) [mailto:robert.whittaker+...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 02 July 2020 17:38
To: talk-gb
Subject: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

I'm not completely sure if/how we can best make use of the new OS
OpenData (UPRNs, USRNs and related links) in OpenStreetMap, but as a
first step I've set up a quick slippy map with the UPRN locations
shown:

https://osm.mathmos.net/addresses/uprn/ (zoom in to level 16 to show the data)

The UPRN dataset literally just contains the UPRN number and its
coordinates (both OS National Grid and WGS lat/lon). There are some
additional linking datasets that link these ids to other ids (e.g.
USRNs, TOIDs). But no address information is available directly. (You
may be able to get street names by matching to OS Open Roads via TOIDs
though. Coupled with Code-Point Open, you might be able to assign
quite a few postcodes in cases where there's only one unit for a whole
street.)

The UPRN data has already helped me find a mapping error I made
locally though -- it looks like I'd accidentally missed drawing a
house outline from aerial imagery, and also classified a large garage
a few doors down as a house. The two errors cancelled out when the
houses were numbered sequentially, so I didn't notice until now. Today
though I spotted a UPRN marker over some blank space on the map, and
no marker over the mapped house that's probably a garage.

Now a few initial thoughts on the data that I've explored so far:

I believe that the UPRNs are assigned by local authorities, so
conventions may vary from place to place. I don't know who actually
assigns the coordinates (authority or OS). Looking at those for rows
of houses around me, they don't seem to have been automatically given
coordinates from the house footprint, it looks more like someone
manually clicking on a map.

The UPRN dataset should include all addressable properties. It is also
ahead of reality in some places, as it includes locations for houses
on a new development near me that have yet to be built yet. For blocks
of apartments/flats, the UPRN nodes may all have the same coordinates
or may be displaced from each other, possibly in an artificial manner.

Other objects also appear to have UPRNs. Likely things I've noticed so
far include: car parks, post boxes, telephone boxes (even after
they've been removed), electricity sub-stations, roads and recorded
footpaths (the UPRN locations seem to be at one end of the street, so
usually lie at a junction), recreation grounds / play areas,
floodlight poles (around sports pitches), and allotments. There's no
information about the object type in the UPRN data unfortunately.

Anyway, I hope some of this is useful / interesting. I hope to be on
the OSMUK call on Saturday to discuss things further. Best wishes,

Robert.

-- 
Robert Whittaker
https://osm.mathmos.net/

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Re: [Talk-at] Bundesdenkmäler

[Stephan Bösch-Plepelits]

On Thu, Jul 02, 2020 at 12:11:56AM +0200, Robert Grübler wrote:
> Am Dienstag, 30. Juni 2020 19:32 schrieb Stephan Bösch-Plepelits 
> [mailto:sk...@xover.mud.at]
> 
> > Ich hab einen Checker für Bundesdenkmäler für OpenStreetMap, Wikidata u.ä.
> > geschrieben: https://www.openstreetmap.at/bundesdenkmal-checker/
> > Damit möchte ich die Verbreitung von ref:at:bda=*, wikidata=* 
> > und anderen Metainformationen erhöhen :-) 
> 
> 
> Find ich sehr hilfreich, Danke! 
> Persönlich hab' ich noch nie einen Wikidata Link getaggt, das wird sich 
> sicherlich bald ändern. 
Sehr gut :-) Der nächste Schritt ist dann das Editieren in Wikidata ;-)

> Mit der breiten Übernahme von Metadaten kann ich mich weniger anfreunden. 
> Lieber mehrere schlanke und performante Datenbanken, als ein träges Monster. 
> Deine vorsichtige Formulierung 
> " ... welche weiteren Informationen man eintragen könnte (sic)."
> interpretiere ich auch in diese Richtung gehend.
Nun, ich glaube nicht, dass ein paar zusätzliche Tags die Datenbank gleiche
träge und langsam macht. Und es gibt ja interessante Anwendungen für
Metadaten (z.B. aus den Gebäudehöhen kann man 3D-Anwendungen generieren wie
https://vrmap.kairo.at/).

Man muss halt schauen, was in welcher Datenbank sinnvoll ist. Ich seh z.B.
Vorteile, wenn die Informationen in OpenStreetMap oder Wikidata vorhanden
sind, weil sie dann international verfügbar sind. Damit wird ein
'ref:at:bda' Verweis vor allem ein Hinweis, wo man die Informationen
kontrollieren kann.

Für eine Anwendung wie den OpenStreetBrowser, der international verwendet
wird, bin ich froh, dass ich nicht für jedes Land / jede Stadt eine eigene
Anbindung programmieren muss, um an weitere Metadaten zu kommen.

Was natürlich eine interessante Abwägung ist, welche Daten man in
OpenStreetMap und welche man in Wikidata eintragen soll. Ich hab z.B. in
OpenStreetMap schon seit Ewigkeiten keine 'wikipedia' Tags mehr gesetzt
(ich entferne allerdings auch keine), weil man ja eh über Wikidata zu den
Wikipedia-Links kommt (und dann gleich zu allen Sprachversionen).

Noch was zu der BDA-Datenbank. Dort gibt es kaum Metadaten, nämlich nur
ID, Bezeichnung, Gemeinde, Katastralgemeinde, Adresse, Grundstücksnummer
und Status. Sowas wie start_date, architect, artist, ... muss man eher aus
den textuellen Informationen der Wikipedia Denkmallisten extrahieren. D.h.
die liegen gar nicht maschinenlesbar vor.

gruesse,
Stephan
-- 
Seid unbequem, seid Sand, nicht Öl im Getriebe der Welt! - Günther Eich
,--.
| Stephan Bösch-Plepelits  ❤ code ❤ urbanism ❤ free software ❤ cycling |
| Projects:|
| > OpenStreetMap: openstreetbrowser.org > openstreetmap.at|
| > Urbanism: Radlobby Wien > Platz für Wien   |
| Contact: |
| > Mail: sk...@xover.mud.at > Blog: plepe.at > Code: github.com/plepe |
| > Twitter: twitter.com/plepe > Jabber: sk...@jabber.at   |
| > Mastodon: @pl...@en.osm.town   |
`--'

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[OSM-talk-fr] Du placement de produit (Euskal Herria) ?

[Vincent Bergeot]

Bonjour,

je trouve assez maladroit le fait d'ajouter "Euskal Herria" (Pays 
Basque) dans quasiment toutes les  autres langues sauf ""name, name:fr, 
name:eu, name:es""


https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/85350341#map=9/42.6976/-2.0792

j'ai mis mon commentaire sur ce changeset parce que cela correspond à 
celui où de nombreux noms apparaissent sur la relation 
(https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/11107464/history).


Je n'ai pas de retour pour l'instant (moins de 48h mais ayant contribué 
entre-temps) et j'aimerai avoir vos avis !


La situation est complexe car :

 * la langue basque est officielle coté espagnol, donc que met on dans
   name ?
 * coté français, la langue officielle est le français
 * la relation est sur les 2 pays

Donc avant de poser la problématique du name, name:fr, name:eu, name:es, 
...*j'aimerai déjà votre avis sur tous les autres name:XX=blablabla 
(Euskal Herria).*


PS : si vous souhaitez discuter de du name, name:fr, name:eu, name:es, 
... pouvez vous renommer la discussion pour faciliter le suivi svp ?


à plus

--
Vincent Bergeot

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Re: [Talk-GB] UPRN Locations Map

[Devonshire]

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020, at 5:38 PM, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote:
> I'm not completely sure if/how we can best make use of the new OS
> OpenData (UPRNs, USRNs and related links) in OpenStreetMap, but as a
> first step I've set up a quick slippy map with the UPRN locations
> shown...
> 

Thanks for doing this Robert but unless these can be used to pull down / link 
addresses or other attributes in some kind of usable, license friendly way then 
I don't see a lot of point in adding the references themselves to OSM.

Postcodes are pretty well entrenched for navigation in the UK and I don't see 
the average person replacing their fairly easy to remember postcode with a hard 
to remember 11/12 digit number.

Creation of the references also seems a bit inconsistent to me. On the seafront 
near me there are some open shelters and they have just one reference but on 
the next beach down indentical shelters have 4 references, I assume one for 
each face/row of seats. There are a lot of B's in my area and they all seem 
to have two references despite only have a single address, I assume one for the 
business and one for the property but businesses on the local pier do not have 
a separate node although they are separately addressable.

Kevin
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