Re: [OSM-legal-talk] New phrase in section 2

2010-12-07 Per discussione John Smith
On 8 December 2010 11:57, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: compatible with ODbL+CT; and to publish this information for the benefit of future mappers. In addition, some licences (such as the new UK Open Government Licence) openly avow compatibility with ODC's attribution licences

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] Unsetting CT flag

2010-12-07 Per discussione John Smith
On 8 December 2010 10:37, Simon Ward si...@bleah.co.uk wrote: On Mon, Dec 06, 2010 at 07:58:26PM +0100, Frederik Ramm wrote: ODbL is not a PD license, so you do not have to be afraid. The Contributor Terms effectively change the licence. Frederik seems to consistently misrepresent the license

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] Unsetting CT flag

2010-12-07 Per discussione John Smith
On 8 December 2010 11:08, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: Disappointing as ever... [citation needed] What is disappointing is you can't or won't spend the time to brush up on the history of the license debate, or when you see a false statement being made repeatedly and you don't

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] Unsetting CT flag

2010-12-07 Per discussione John Smith
On 8 December 2010 12:44, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, John Smith wrote: Frederik seems to consistently misrepresent the license in this sort of dishonest fashion, Well at least I'm not misrepresenting my identity. I also think that all So in other words it's ok to lie

Re: [OSM-talk] Unsetting CT flag

2010-12-06 Per discussione John Smith
On 6 December 2010 23:55, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: This should really be taking place on the legal list but nonetheless: On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 7:09 AM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, So, this is awkward. According to my profile, I've agreed to the new

Re: [talk-au] a mapping conflict in Sydney, help appreciated

2010-12-05 Per discussione John Smith
Have you looked at these pages: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_Vandalism http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Vandalism On 5 December 2010 17:43, Andrew Harvey andrew.harv...@gmail.com wrote: I think that this http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/6545161 should be

[talk-au] Russia just lost 3 nav sats...

2010-12-05 Per discussione John Smith
Three Russian satellites have crashed into the Pacific Ocean after a failed launch at the weekend, in a setback to a Kremlin project designed as a rival to the widely-used US GPS navigation technology. Russian news agencies say the satellites veered off course and crashed near Hawaii after

Re: [talk-au] MS imagery

2010-11-30 Per discussione John Smith
This post seems to indicate the legal issues have been sorted out, and the terms the imagery can be used under: http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/Opengeodata/~3/kukbUtOllso/microsoft-imagery-details I also started making a relation showing areas that Bing covers for Australia:

Re: [talk-au] JOSM Preset

2010-11-28 Per discussione John Smith
On 28 November 2010 23:34, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: of the Nearmap preset from JOSM. It does seem to me like the removal is aligned with Ben Last's request to remove a similar preset from Judging from a reply from Frederik it seems it was done out of spite, FUD or to coerce

Re: [talk-au] Looks like Nearmap is gone from JOSM slippymap plugin

2010-11-27 Per discussione John Smith
On 27 November 2010 19:08, Andrew Harvey andrew.harv...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 10:49 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: You can of course fork whatever you like, but allow me to point out that (1) if you are unhappy with the slippy map plugin, why not fork that

[talk-au] Looks like Nearmap is gone from JOSM slippymap plugin

2010-11-26 Per discussione John Smith
Does this mean talks with Nearmap has failed to come to an amicable arrangement? before: http://svn.openstreetmap.org/applications/editors/josm/plugins/slippymap/src/org/openstreetmap/josm/plugins/slippymap/SlippyMapPreferences.java?p=24300 after:

Re: [talk-au] Looks like Nearmap is gone from JOSM slippymap plugin

2010-11-26 Per discussione John Smith
On 26 November 2010 20:18, Emilie Laffray emilie.laff...@gmail.com wrote: As far as I can tell, we are still talking with Nearmap to find a compromise acceptable to both party. The last email I exchanged with Ben Last was last night. I don't think we are near a breakdown in communication at

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Database and its contents

2010-11-25 Per discussione John Smith
On 25 November 2010 17:39, ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen g.grem...@cetest.nl wrote: The position is a fact, name is a fact, cuisine they serve is a fact, along with the other details. Facts cannot be copyright. Creative Commons licences are not designed for factual

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] JOSM and spam

2010-11-24 Per discussione John Smith
On 25 November 2010 09:30, Erik Johansson erjo...@gmail.com wrote: 3. give the finger to all people anti ODbL At least you are being honest, which is more than Frederik seems to be capable of, you don't make any pretense that there was ever any kinda of democratic process going on and the whole

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] JOSM and spam

2010-11-24 Per discussione John Smith
On 25 November 2010 12:05, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: Frederik is a generous and respected contributor to the OpenStreetMap community. His record speaks for itself and he doesn't need me or anybody else to stand up for him. Regardless of other deeds, he has been less than

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] JOSM and spam

2010-11-24 Per discussione John Smith
On 25 November 2010 12:14, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: On 25 November 2010 02:10, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 25 November 2010 12:05, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: Frederik is a generous and respected contributor to the OpenStreetMap community

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] JOSM and spam

2010-11-24 Per discussione John Smith
On 25 November 2010 12:41, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 9:22 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: How charming that you use selective quoting to fabricate a lie of omission. Viewing the original shows no lie. And that your fabrication failed

Re: [talk-au] MS imagery

2010-11-24 Per discussione John Smith
On 25 November 2010 12:57, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: landuse, and at a stretch, bike paths etc. I guess John Smith will be mapping out the boundaries of the coverage? Should be interesting. There is no news here until they actually allow it, so far they are claiming they can't

Re: [talk-au] MS imagery

2010-11-24 Per discussione John Smith
On 25 November 2010 13:20, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: On 25 November 2010 03:00, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 25 November 2010 12:57, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: landuse, and at a stretch, bike paths etc. I guess John Smith will be mapping

Re: [talk-au] How to tag model railway

2010-11-23 Per discussione John Smith
On 24 November 2010 07:36, Christoph Donges cdon...@gmail.com wrote: In a park there is a set of rails and small trains that pull 2 or 3 carriages that people can sit on. Here are some photos: http://amynaomi.blogspot.com/2010/03/trains.html I have tagged it as railway=narrow_gauge but I

Re: [talk-au] How to tag model railway

2010-11-23 Per discussione John Smith
On 24 November 2010 13:54, Christoph Donges cdon...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks. I couldn't find that. It needs to be added to the railway section of map features, but for what ever reason it was overlooked previously... ___ Talk-au mailing list

[OSM-talk] Mount Merapi volcano

2010-11-13 Per discussione John Smith
Has anyone been mapping the evacuation locations and so on? http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/11/13/3065704.htm http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-7.547lon=110.4445zoom=12layers=M ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org

Re: [OSM-talk] license change map

2010-11-12 Per discussione John Smith
On 12 November 2010 22:47, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, On 11/12/10 13:04, Nathan Edgars II wrote: If we go by what the JOSM introduction page says (OpenStreetMap is changing its license), will is correct. Please stop this immediately. “Methinks He Doth Protest Too

Re: [OSM-talk] license change map

2010-11-11 Per discussione John Smith
On 12 November 2010 03:24, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: In other words, we don't know why someone doesn't agree to the new CT. Yes because some don't want those sorts of answers known... As 80n keeps pointing out, everything done so far is part of a war of attrition...

[talk-au] Fwd: [OSM-talk] license change map

2010-11-11 Per discussione John Smith
-- Forwarded message -- From: Fabian Schmidt fschm...@informatik.uni-leipzig.de Date: 12 November 2010 02:41 Subject: [OSM-talk] license change map To: t...@openstreetmap.org As the license thermometer[1] turns greener I was interested in how far this already effects the map

[talk-au] Fwd: [OSM-talk] license change map

2010-11-11 Per discussione John Smith
-- Forwarded message -- From: David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au Date: 12 November 2010 11:37 Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] license change map To: Fabian Schmidt fschm...@informatik.uni-leipzig.de Cc: t...@openstreetmap.org From looking at a few different cities in this map, it is

Re: [OSM-talk] timezones

2010-11-10 Per discussione John Smith
On 11 November 2010 04:28, hbogner hbog...@gmail.com wrote: Thats nice but I would like to map time zones as single relation for one time zone, as in one relation for time zone UTC +1, one for UTC+2 and so on. Which way would be better, to make entire country relation as part of UTC+-X

Re: [OSM-talk] Historical Data in OSM database

2010-11-08 Per discussione John Smith
On 9 November 2010 11:47, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: The main database includes the historical data, there's just not a programmatic way to access it via the current API. He isn't the first, and I'm sure he won't be the last to ask for changes to the API to accommodate historical

Re: [OSM-talk] Historical Data in OSM database

2010-11-08 Per discussione John Smith
On 9 November 2010 12:44, Laurence Penney l...@lorp.org wrote: Using start_date and end_date tags on two way IDs (one for the Palace in its first position, another for its second) might be a reasonable way to map the Crystal Palace. One way to handle this would be to update the API to

Re: [OSM-talk] Historical Data in OSM database

2010-11-08 Per discussione John Smith
On 9 November 2010 15:24, Michal Migurski m...@stamen.com wrote: Would this apply to the planet, as well? I would suggest that the main planet dump would keep the status quo, that is default to current objects only. ___ talk mailing list

Re: [talk-au] Locata augmenting GPS in GPS hostile areas

2010-11-08 Per discussione John Smith
On 8 November 2010 22:57, John Henderson snow...@gmx.com wrote: Or put them in road tunnels like Sydney's M5, so that visitors like me using OSM get told about the correct exit inside the tunnel instead of being told we've missed the turn when we eventually exit. This sort of thing is being

Re: [talk-au] Locata augmenting GPS in GPS hostile areas

2010-11-08 Per discussione John Smith
On 9 November 2010 15:40, ed...@billiau.net wrote: As far as my reading got, this could work with a smart phone, as the additional signals were broadcast on 2.4GHz, but not on a consumer GPS. Is this the something like wifi triangulation, which a number of companies (eg skyhook, google, apple,

[talk-au] Reversing the Mercator Effect....

2010-11-05 Per discussione John Smith
Stephen Von Worley has some fun reversing the distortions of the Mercator projection, which exaggerates the size of things at the poles in order to achieve consistent compass bearings. He imagines what would happen if Greenland was on the equator and Africa in the Arctic, and goes on to do the

Re: [talk-au] Project of the Week / Month

2010-11-04 Per discussione John Smith
On 5 November 2010 00:26, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: A parking area may have lit/unlit parts, and most of these areas are too large to simply tag the whole area as lit/unlit. Ive had a look through You could have 2 parking areas and mark one as lit and one that isn't... One

Re: [talk-au] Project of the Week / Month

2010-11-04 Per discussione John Smith
On 5 November 2010 10:54, Andrew Harvey andrew.harv...@gmail.com wrote: The two parking areas issue is the same issue as needing to split a highway in order to tag different segments with different maxspeeds. For example if we have (best read with a monospaced font), Most either can't do

Re: [talk-au] Project of the Week / Month

2010-11-04 Per discussione John Smith
On 5 November 2010 11:33, Andrew Harvey andrew.harv...@gmail.com wrote: Like putting a way down the middle of each lane and then tieing that back to the road, or like just adding a lane:n:feature = value to the existing road way? Then you could do something like lane:0:restriction =

Re: [OSM-talk] highway=ford vs ford=yes

2010-11-02 Per discussione John Smith
On 2 November 2010 00:19, Andrew Errington a.erring...@lancaster.ac.uk wrote: ford=yes on a way means (to me) that this segment of the way is often covered with water. ford=yes on a node means (to me) that the ford is very short. Except in drier areas where they mostly aren't covered with

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] auckland city council copyright notice

2010-11-01 Per discussione John Smith
On 1 November 2010 11:44, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: Municipalities shouldn't write licenses; it ain't their job. It ain't their core competence. Their citizens ain't paying for the city to do license composition and maintenance. Regardless what we'd like, we should be happy they

Re: [OSM-talk] Anyone read the CC0 legal code?

2010-11-01 Per discussione John Smith
On 1 November 2010 02:40, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote: Currently the checkbox has absolutely no bearing on the license that your data is distributed under. It really is just a statement of purpose which is noted in the account settings but doesn't actually DO anything. Most people

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] How to deal with CC 2.0 data imports? Proposal Dual licensing of data under odbl-1.0

2010-10-29 Per discussione John Smith
On 30 October 2010 00:07, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: I have written to the people who donated the data to dual license it under the oodbl as well as under the creative commons. http://www.opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/summary/ That may not be enough, as they would

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] How to deal with CC 2.0 data imports? Proposal Dual licensing of data under odbl-1.0

2010-10-29 Per discussione John Smith
On 30 October 2010 03:56, Mike Dupont jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: I see, and there is no way around this? So everyone in the world become bound by the contributor terms? does anything think this is even feasible? Those trying to push OSM towards PD think it's feasible and are doing

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] How to deal with CC 2.0 data imports? Proposal Dual licensing of data under odbl-1.0

2010-10-29 Per discussione John Smith
On 30 October 2010 04:28, Kai Krueger kakrue...@gmail.com wrote: There appear to be some interesting thoughts about this in the most recent LWG meeting minutes ( https://docs.google.com/View?id=dd9g3qjp_89cczk73gk ) in the Contributor Terms Revision section: Until recently there was no

Re: [OSM-talk] SotM11 will be held in Denver.

2010-10-25 Per discussione John Smith
On 25 October 2010 15:52, Nic Roets nro...@gmail.com wrote: Launched in the UK ? I guess that is why I have never heard of it. Considering it's 1 of many android handsets I can't say I'm surprised exactly, there seems to be a new one out every other week and they seem to alternate between being

Re: [OSM-talk] highway=ford vs ford=yes

2010-10-24 Per discussione John Smith
There was/is very good reasons why highway=ford wasn't good enough for ways, but why do nodes need to be updated at all? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [talk-au] NearMap

2010-10-23 Per discussione John Smith
Has any progress been made on this front at all? I noticed in the latest minutes[1] that the LWG has no plans to address the section(s) that Nearmap objected to, and previous minutes[2] didn't show any resolution either. [1] https://docs.google.com/View?id=dd9g3qjp_87d3bmhxgc [2]

Re: [OSM-talk] Code of Conduct: civil discussion, lists etc.

2010-10-16 Per discussione John Smith
On 16 October 2010 19:08, Al Haraka alhar...@gmail.com wrote: initiatives mentioned before. However, I think we should keep it plain and simple and remove some caustic behavior that seems to be returning to the list after a hiatus. Collaboration and consideration Most of the caustic

Re: [OSM-talk] Code of Conduct: civil discussion, lists etc.

2010-10-16 Per discussione John Smith
On 16 October 2010 19:21, Al Haraka alhar...@gmail.com wrote: I did not single out anyone on purpose, because this is not going to be productive OR solve the current issue. Whether it is SteveC or any This thread/idea started because of suggestions made previously by SteveC and now he's the

Re: [OSM-talk] Code of Conduct: civil discussion, lists etc.

2010-10-16 Per discussione John Smith
On 17 October 2010 00:36, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote: Oh hardly. All I have done is call out Anthony and link to the things he denies about wikipedia. What specifically has any of that to do with OSM? You, too, are another example of someone using a fake name and occasionally

Re: [OSM-talk] Code of Conduct: civil discussion, lists etc.

2010-10-16 Per discussione John Smith
On 17 October 2010 00:58, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote: I wish i had a pony. This is why things end up in a endless debate, people pose serious questions and you either can't be bothered, or won't respond properly so the debate can move forward.

Re: [OSM-talk] Code of Conduct: civil discussion, lists etc.

2010-10-16 Per discussione John Smith
On 17 October 2010 01:16, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote: Well that's kind of hilarious given you cut out the first half of my email where I exactly answered your question Duane. What ever you say Mark, but then again I've come to expect side stepping from you, making any claim you wish

Re: [talk-au] A proposal to change Botany Bay into a relation

2010-10-10 Per discussione John Smith
On 10 October 2010 16:57, Andrew Harvey andrew.harv...@gmail.com wrote: An OSM file like the osmChange ... ones (eg. http://www.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/changeset/0123/download), or the osm ... one that JOSM can save new edits as when you go FileSave As? As JOSM spits out, that way the

Re: [talk-au] A proposal to change Botany Bay into a relation

2010-10-10 Per discussione John Smith
On 10 October 2010 17:25, Andrew Harvey andrew.harv...@gmail.com wrote: How do you tell the changes from the things that haven't changed when viewing this in JOSM though? You load a new layer from the DB and can compare the 2... ___ Talk-au mailing

[talk-au] World's biggest book...

2010-10-06 Per discussione John Smith
The world's biggest book fair in Frankfurt is used to seeing some big book launches, but none came larger than a six-by-nine-foot (1.82 by 2.74 metres) atlas unveiled on Wednesday. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/10/06/3031388.htm ___ Talk-au

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata amp; the new license

2010-10-01 Per discussione John Smith
On 1 October 2010 21:04, Rob Myers r...@robmyers.org wrote: You're joking. It's a few pints worth of money. Nice, just insult most people not in a first world nation, that sort of money is a months worth of wages (or more) to some... ___ legal-talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Are there any other projects in a similar fork situation? (Slightly OT)

2010-10-01 Per discussione John Smith
On 2 October 2010 12:04, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: In general the reason a project forks is that the original project has stagnated and the current maintainers are unresponsive. Or (as we're seeing now with many of the Sun projects), the original maintainer is no longer going

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata amp; the new license

2010-09-30 Per discussione John Smith
On 30 September 2010 18:31, Rob Myers r...@robmyers.org wrote: On 09/30/2010 02:56 AM, John Smith wrote: Those sorts of comments are made to distract from the real issue, that they know that the license is most likely incompatible, and because it most likely won't effect them personally. Yet

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Usage of ODbL

2010-09-30 Per discussione John Smith
On 30 September 2010 21:51, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: The Contributor Terms are the _standard_ agreement between contributors and OSMF. I can't be bothered searching for it and I'm paraphrasing, but Frederik posted to one of these lists that it was only likely 2 or 3

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] In what direction should OSM go?

2010-09-30 Per discussione John Smith
On 30 September 2010 20:41, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Data that need not/should not be edited does not enhance the database, it burdens the database. Such data should be added from the original source during rendering. Let's start removing all the placenames, from there we can

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata amp; the new license

2010-09-29 Per discussione John Smith
On 29 September 2010 22:21, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: The legal advice is that OS OpenData _is_ compatible. Any reason you specifically didn't mention that OS's lawyer refutes that claim? ___ legal-talk mailing list

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata amp; the new license

2010-09-29 Per discussione John Smith
On 30 September 2010 07:58, Paul Williams pjwde...@googlemail.com wrote: or contributor loss), but have felt unhappy about such comments as those quoted above that the OS data doesn't matter and so it doesn't matter whether the licence is compatible - I and I am sure many other people find the

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Usage of ODbL

2010-09-29 Per discussione John Smith
On 30 September 2010 06:34, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: This is about the ODbL being adopted by others, thus showing that it is not just OSM who believe that it is good. What about Ed's question, regardless if the information is useful for OSM or not, could it be imported into OSM?

[OSM-talk] When satnavs go bad....

2010-09-29 Per discussione John Smith
You need to dial a helicopter to get you off the mountain http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1315762/White-van-man-airlifted-safety-satnav-sends-mountain.html ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org

Re: [OSM-talk] Countries that have NOT had any imports?

2010-09-29 Per discussione John Smith
On 30 September 2010 10:16, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: I also think treating the US as though it's a single state (e.g. comparing it to say Germany), is not all that useful. Australia is worst, similar size, but much much much less people, and Frederick seemed to think you could map out most

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] In what direction should OSM go?

2010-09-29 Per discussione John Smith
On 30 September 2010 13:28, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: - the imported data is small enough to be manually merged, but high quality enough to make it worthwhile I imported state roads in Qld some time ago, I selectively copied missing roads, especially in more remote areas that

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] In what direction should OSM go?

2010-09-29 Per discussione John Smith
On 30 September 2010 13:58, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 11:28 PM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: IMHO imports are at the best in these cases: - the data cannot be obtained by surveying (eg, administrative boundaries) Wow, really? I'd say that's the worst

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] In what direction should OSM go?

2010-09-29 Per discussione John Smith
On 30 September 2010 14:08, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: If it doesn't need to be edited, then it shouldn't be imported. Why not if it enhances the database? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

[talk-au] When satnavs go bad....

2010-09-29 Per discussione John Smith
You need to dial a helicopter to get you off the mountain http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1315762/White-van-man-airlifted-safety-satnav-sends-mountain.html ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org

Re: [talk-au] When satnavs go bad....

2010-09-29 Per discussione John Smith
On 30 September 2010 11:58, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: A pretty similar thing happened to a friend of mine. Hired a car overseas, set off for a drive in the country, and ended up on a walking track that kept on getting narrower and narrower... Minus the helicopter rescue though.

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata amp; the new license

2010-09-28 Per discussione John Smith
On 28 September 2010 21:03, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: The question I am asking myself is: Is the ability to import as much government data as possible really worth the hassle? And my personal answer is a clear no; because to me, the value of imported data is very small, almost

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata amp; the new license

2010-09-28 Per discussione John Smith
On 29 September 2010 02:14, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: Most of the mappers I know are not fond of imports. You can mostly just import data that is already available elsewhere. Data that gets imported without a vivid community is doomed to get old and useless. Ok, lets

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata amp; the new license

2010-09-28 Per discussione John Smith
On 29 September 2010 02:28, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: OK, lets not confuse issues here, one is to perform the import, the other is maintenance and updates of the data. How is maintenance of imported data any different than maintenance of non-imported data?

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata amp; the new license

2010-09-28 Per discussione John Smith
On 29 September 2010 02:45, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: thing is if you have non-imported data, there is usually someone who is caring for it. If you do imports, there might be someone but mostly How many people that mapped Haiti still care for that data 6 months later?

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata amp; the new license

2010-09-28 Per discussione John Smith
On 29 September 2010 04:52, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: The latter is most definitely 'cared' for 'maintained'. I certainly don't want to loose the ability to do b) nor loose existing data I've added that way. neither do I Ok, I see my problem before, it was with the

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata amp; the new license

2010-09-28 Per discussione John Smith
On 29 September 2010 02:57, Rob Myers r...@robmyers.org wrote: How is maintenance of imported data any different than maintenance of non-imported data? The feeling of ownership and investment and the number of people involved. That's based on the premise that the person that added the data is

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata amp; the new license

2010-09-28 Per discussione John Smith
On 29 September 2010 03:56, Chris Hill o...@raggedred.net wrote: So you think that only experienced OSmers add shops, churches, schools, footpaths, cycletracks ... ? So you think the non-experienced OSMers that added 1 or 2 POIs actually care what they entered 6 or 12 months from now? or that

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata amp; the new license

2010-09-28 Per discussione John Smith
On 29 September 2010 03:35, Niklas Cholmkvist towards...@gmail.com wrote: John Smith wrote: I really wish someone would have the backbone to fess up and say OSM will now go in this direction, or OSM is going in that direction, I find that the above quoted text states that it would be better

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata amp; the new license

2010-09-28 Per discussione John Smith
On 29 September 2010 06:36, Rob Myers r...@robmyers.org wrote: Given that OSM is going to be relicencing, if the OS's licence isn't CT-compatible then the options are for the OS to relicence their data or for that data to be excluded from OSM's database. If the OS ODL isn't CT compatible, and

Re: [OSM-talk] Changeset ignoring API limits?

2010-09-23 Per discussione John Smith
Isn't the limit per upload not per changeset? On 9/24/10, MP singular...@gmail.com wrote: I looked at changeset http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/5853571 and I noticed the page says Has the following 79290 nodes: ... Has the following 15862 ways: Isn't there supposed to be a

Re: [OSM-talk] Partnership between OSM and local government?

2010-09-22 Per discussione John Smith
On 22 September 2010 17:00, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: planned license change (we don't usually go into detail unless of course someone requests it - we just say that OSM is committed to free and open licenses always). Do they understand that may include no attribution in future?

Re: [OSM-talk] Partnership between OSM and local government?

2010-09-22 Per discussione John Smith
On 22 September 2010 17:30, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Convincing someone to give you date is a bit like sales. We're not lying to people but we're not trying to scare them either. We're not saying things Actually, it's a lie of omission:

Re: [OSM-talk] A warning about gates and other barriers

2010-09-21 Per discussione John Smith
On 21 September 2010 18:38, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote: However, if you were writing a routing program, it would be unwise to assume that you can drive through a barrier=gate if no additional access is specified. Often a gate is locked shut. You can only make that assumption for your

Re: [OSM-talk] A warning about gates and other barriers

2010-09-21 Per discussione John Smith
On 22 September 2010 02:38, Peter Wendorff wendo...@uni-paderborn.de wrote: I would say, it's NOT an error to not map the access tags itself - sometimes the mapper don't know this facts - as mentioned in this thread before. But I totally agree, that it's a mandatory tag to be sure at usage, so

[talk-au] OSM alternatives...

2010-09-21 Per discussione John Smith
It doesn't seem likely things are going to be resolved to everyone's liking, in fact there seems to be a new type of service popping up every other week. So to this end I just filed a bug with JOSM asking to get multiple credentials stored and some easy way to switch between them. This is so you

Re: [talk-au] OSM alternatives...

2010-09-21 Per discussione John Smith
On 22 September 2010 14:16, Andrew Laughton laughton.and...@gmail.com wrote: To me this means multiple username and password combinations, all with the same OSM site. I think you should spell out that we need JOSM to be able to be used on different mapping sites. It would also be useful for

Re: [talk-au] OSM alternatives...

2010-09-21 Per discussione John Smith
On 22 September 2010 14:30, Andrew Laughton laughton.and...@gmail.com wrote: http://fosm.org give instructions on how to change JOSM so that it uses FOSM. Yes, but you loose any authentication information for OSM and vice versa if you switch between them, that is unless you run JOSM under

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Natural person in CT 3

2010-09-20 Per discussione John Smith
On 21 September 2010 06:38, Ulf Möller o...@ulfm.de wrote: On the other hand, if someone has two accounts, we probably can rely on the honor system. Currently it's being suggested that people create a second account so they can agree to the CTs, this doesn't seem to be the sort of thing that

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Natural person in CT 3

2010-09-20 Per discussione John Smith
On 21 September 2010 08:10, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: CTs are per account. Active Contributors are per person. Exactly, you agree to the CTs as a person, which then encompasses all accounts used, unless the wording of the current CTs is changed your suggestion shouldn't be given.

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata the new license

2010-09-17 Per discussione John Smith
On 18 September 2010 07:15, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com wrote: 2) My question was about how the new license/CT is worded *now* not in the assumptive future. The problem is the CTs allow the potential for relicensing with a fairly low barrier, but they don't address what happens with existing

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata the new license

2010-09-16 Per discussione John Smith
On 17 September 2010 05:25, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: This clashes with the legal advice giving to the Licensing Working Group in that OS OpenData's license _is_ compatible with ODbL and the Contributor Terms. Specifically section 4 of the Contributor Terms provides a

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata the new license

2010-09-16 Per discussione John Smith
On 17 September 2010 06:06, Rob Myers r...@robmyers.org wrote: 4. At Your or the copyright holder’s option, OSMF agrees to attribute You or the copyright holder. A mechanism will be provided, currently a web page [...] The way that it allows attribution satisfies BY-SA 2.5+ as well as the

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] OS Opendata the new license

2010-09-16 Per discussione John Smith
On 17 September 2010 06:36, Rob Myers r...@robmyers.org wrote: If you mean the licence of OSM, that would clash with section 4 of the CTs. In that case, Section 3 clashes with 4, since there is no minimum requirement of attribution. If you mean a produced work, that would clash with section

Re: [OSM-talk] Diary spam

2010-09-16 Per discussione John Smith
On 16 September 2010 16:11, Morten Kjeldgaard m...@bioxray.dk wrote: What should be done in cases like this? The wiki says chill it. The accounts are usually deleted, depending who's about depends on how long before the account is removed. ___ talk

Re: [talk-au] NearMap

2010-09-16 Per discussione John Smith
On 16 September 2010 18:35, Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com wrote: Point 4 of the Contributor Terms provides a guaranteed mechanism for Attribution. http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License/Contributor_Terms

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Does importing data give you a copyright?

2010-09-15 Per discussione John Smith
On 16 September 2010 09:35, 80n 80n...@gmail.com wrote: Dave Hanson relicensed the TIGER data under CC-BY-SA when he contributed it to OSM. If you received it from him you have to comply with his license terms. Which is no different than BSD code ending up in Linux and being released under

Re: [talk-au] NearMap

2010-09-15 Per discussione John Smith
On 16 September 2010 00:37, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: I believe John Smith initially suggested it to NearMap. Ben Last at NearMap No, I posted the question publicly to the legal talk list, my concern wasn't just about Nearmap but any source that may be too easy to access

Re: [talk-au] Nestoria and OSM

2010-09-15 Per discussione John Smith
On 16 September 2010 00:37, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: Nestoria have launched an OSM option in Australia. http://blog.nestoria.com.au/big-thank-you Wonder if they'll ditch OSM when the data is reverted due to the poor quality previously available...

Re: [talk-au] NearMap

2010-09-15 Per discussione John Smith
On 16 September 2010 04:02, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: That said, there is no answer right now for what will happen regarding NearMap imagery in the future. Currently, OSM users may not use NearMap imagery for deriving data for OSM. Only users that have agreed with the new

Re: [talk-au] NearMap

2010-09-15 Per discussione John Smith
On 16 September 2010 04:12, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: bad. This isn't a competition with a winner and loser. The fact is that NearMap don't want OSM users using their imagery right now. So we shouldn't. This isn't true, they don't want to allow their data to be submitted under

Re: [talk-au] NearMap

2010-09-15 Per discussione John Smith
On 16 September 2010 07:31, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: I don't think that your recommendation is in the best interest of OpenStreetMap or OSM contributors. You left off 3, there is going to be a fork as cc-by-sa and any such contributions from Nearmap will be happily accepted. Also

Re: [talk-au] NearMap

2010-09-15 Per discussione John Smith
On 16 September 2010 07:31, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: I don't think that your recommendation is in the best interest of OpenStreetMap or OSM contributors. Actually how can you or anyone else make this statement in good faith when most of the contributors have never been asked what

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