Re: [Talk-transit] [Tagging] Transport mode on platforms? (Was: Re: Documentation issues of PT tagging schemes)

[Jo]

Very soon after PTv2 was 'accepted' I understood that if we would ever
replace hw=bus_stop NODES with pt=platform, the mode of transport would
need to be added on these nodes.

Ever since it's a back and forth pulling between yes the mode of transport
can be added on them and NO the platforms don't need a mode of transport.

In the mean time, I'm not so sure that there is willingness to 'deprecate'
highway=bus_stop, not even sure if there ever was, and I guess there is no
real need for it etiher. The problem with that kind of thinking is that it
can lead to the conclusion the whole public_transport scheme is not needed
for the stops.

Now I don't mind using it, just like I wouldn't mind dropping it.

What I do mind is the use of multiple objects in the route relations to
represent the same stop and the perceived need to 'upgrade' stops from
nodes to ways/areas during their lifecycle if there are actual platforms
for passengers to wait on.

I created a 10 minute screencast showing some new functionality in
PT_Assistant, but more importantly it also shows the public_transport tags
are a bit confusing to some. In this case the stops mapped nicely as nodes
alongside the way got stop_position instead of platform as the value.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVcKredS0kA

PT_Assistant's validator will tell you about this and JOSM will make it
easy to correct the situation.

After stopping the recording I went on to fix the from/to tags and adding a
route_master relation before uploading. But I wanted to keep the screencast
concise and to the point.

Polyglot

Op wo 25 jul. 2018 om 22:56 schreef SelfishSeahorse <
selfishseaho...@gmail.com>:

> Hi
>
> It seems that the only problem with PTv2 that remains is the rendering
> of public_transport=platform, i.e. whether public_transport=platform
> (and maybe public_transport=station too) should get the transport mode
> tag(s) (bus=yes/tram=yes/...).
>
> Note that the PTv2 proposal suggested to map the *stop position* 'as
> an icon depending of the vehicle type that is stopping at the
> position',[1] which may have led to some people mapping only
> stop_position's, others mapping only platform's and still others
> mapping stop_position's and platform's which in turn has led to
> complication and confusion.
>
> [1]:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Public_Transport_v3
>
> As this question pops up every now and then, it might make sense to
> finish discussing this.
>
> I'm double posting this message on the transport mailing list, so that
> the discussion can continue there.
>
> Regards
> Markus
>
> On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 at 19:25, Roland Olbricht 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > > What I would like to see is how to map a Public Transport Route in
> > > version 3 .. that has the bear minimum of things to have and the rules
> > > that make the route valid.
> >
> > This is where the problem sits; the point of view of what a route is
> > vary wildly. Few people are even willing to pinpoint and tell their
> > personal definition.
> >
> > Things that exist under the notion of route:
> >
> > - Urban bus/tram/subway services (many stops, many departures, route
> > taken always or almost always the same, route through the street grid
> > practically fixed, often unchanged for years to decades)
> >
> > - Peak services, special routes to depot, school services (few
> > departures, many stops, also many route variants, frequently changing,
> > making it impractical to route them all)
> >
> > - Hail bus services: the bus is promised to serve a certain street and
> > stops on hail (many departures, route taken always or almost always the
> > same, route through the street grid practically fixed, often unchanged
> > for years to decades)
> >
> > - Urban and regional train lines (many stops, many departures, route and
> > platforms fixed). Those routes are often in parts or completely land
> marks.
> >
> > - Long distance train lines (many stops, many departures, route and
> > platforms may or may not vary, can stop at a different platform of the
> > same station for operational reasons)
> >
> > - Long distance bus services (few stops, few departures, route between
> > stops often changing on the fly)
> >
> > - Ferry lines (often only two stops, completely different
> > infrastructure)
> >
> > Further kinds of routes may exist. For example, some communties use
> > virtual metro lines that connect station node to station node. This is
> > most often because the communties lack the ressources to map the actual
> > underground structures.
> >
> > I personally map only urban bus/tram/subway services and urban and
> > regional train lines (and do not delete other routes). For these
> > services it is sane to have marked the stops and the route on the grid.
> >
> > The route on the grid is straightforward: this is in any PT scheme a
> > sequence of way members that together form a continuous trajectory. Hail
> > sections get a special role for these members.
> >
> > The stop 

[Talk-us] Discriminatory remarks was Re: Senseless [nationality], again

[Shawn K. Quinn]

On 07/25/2018 05:33 AM, Bryan Housel wrote:
> Do you live in [area of questionable edits]?
> If not, why do you care whether the students want to map sidewalks there?

This point could have been made without a needless and inflammatory
remark against the original poster's country of origin.

While I do agree with Frederik that obvious rubbish should not remain in
the database, I think the "delete first, ask questions later" approach
is a bit too aggressive. But attacking someone by their nationality goes
way over the line of how decent people conduct themselves on a forum
like this.

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn 
http://www.rantroulette.com
http://www.skqrecordquest.com

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Re: [Talk-se] Trying to locate actual fire locations for mapping projects

[Karl Wettin]

I think I have figured it out!

Interview from yesterday with the Polish lead on site in Sveg:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHPUYdkyfjY=youtu.be=141

Paraphrased:

"
We are working on two sites that are 20km, more or less, from our base
of operations.

On the first site we are replacing the Swedish firefighters.

We are trying to control the fire in a close proximity of the bigger
fire which is south west of Sveg.
"

So, the second site is the one SW of Sveg at Älvdalens skjutfält.
There are however three larger fires in that area according to  VIIRS.

"In proximity of the bigger fire", does that mean around the larger
fire, or does it mean a smaller fire close to the larger fire?

There is a smaller fire around 61.60, 13.50.
There is a larger fire at around 61.64, 13.57.

The third one, at least as large as the large one mentiond above is,
if I figured it out right, the one located within the area they
withdrew all firefighters from as it's a military training ground with
risks of explosion. The one they bombed with fighter jets yesterday.



kalle

2018-07-26 0:40 GMT+02:00 Karl Wettin :
>
> The press contact is open 24/7, so I called them.
>
> MSB knows nothing more than that they are placed in Gävleborg and Jämtlands 
> län. It is up to each län to decide where they will be deployed. Our best 
> shot is probably getting a hold of someone in the actual team of firefighters 
> that can let us know when and where they are deployed.
>
>
> kalle
>
> 2018-07-26 0:25 GMT+02:00 Karl Wettin :
>>
>> +1
>>
>> I’ll try to get in touch the MSB press contact tomorrow (the least invasive 
>> point of contact I can think of) to see if they have any information 
>> regarding the whereabout of the polish brigades.
>>
>> 25 juli 2018 kl. 22:06 skrev Christoffer Holmstedt 
>> :
>>
>>> The new project 4912 covers the other project's area is this wise?
>>>
>>> I think it would be more wise to cover the areas south and south west of 
>>> Sveg but do _not_ include "Älvdalens Skjutfält"/Trängslet [3] as there are 
>>> undetonated ammunition in that area so no firefighters are allowed to go in 
>>> there. One or more HOT OSM project(s) covering Strandasmyrvallen [1] and 
>>> Lillhärdal [2] would be my best suggestions for mapping efforts without any 
>>> proper communication with the Polish firefighters.
>>>
>>> [1] 
>>> http://emergency.copernicus.eu/mapping/ems-product-component/EMSR298_05STRANDASMYRVALLEN_01DELINEATION_MONIT01/2
>>> [2] 
>>> http://emergency.copernicus.eu/mapping/ems-product-component/EMSR298_04LILLHARDAL_01DELINEATION_MAP/1
>>> [3] 
>>> http://emergency.copernicus.eu/mapping/ems-product-component/EMSR298_03TRANGSLET_01DELINEATION_MONIT01/1
>>> --
>>> Christoffer Holmstedt
>>>
>>> 2018-07-25 21:49 GMT+02:00 Blake Girardot :

 Greetings,

 I created a 2nd project for the area SE of Sveg (I left out the SW
 area based on Mattias's comments)

 https://tasks.hotosm.org/contribute?difficulty=ALL=OSM-SE

 Respectfully,
 blake

 On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 8:52 PM, Mattias Lindblad  wrote:
 > Unfortunately that map marks everything, from small wastebasket-fires 
 > that
 > are already extinguished to huge  wildfires.
 >
 > http://effis.jrc.ec.europa.eu/static/effis_current_situation/public/index.html
 > is a bit less detailed, but can be zoomed and use an OSM layer.
 >
 > The area that Blake referred to as being SW of Sveg is probably the fire 
 > in
 > the military area Trängslet, which is very problematic in many aspects. I
 > would think that the Polish force is not deployed there.
 >
 > /Mattias
 >
 > ons 25 juli 2018 kl. 20:40 skrev Björn Stenberg :
 >>
 >> SOS Alarm keeps an updated map here:
 >> https://www.sosalarm.se/lagesbild-brand
 >>
 >> This map is referred to by government agency sites so it is probably the
 >> best publicly available. Unfortunately it is rather zoomed out so I'm 
 >> not
 >> sure it is good enough for our purpose.
 >>
 >> --
 >> Björn
 >> On 25 July 2018 8:24:05 pm Blake Girardot  wrote:
 >>
 >> > whoops I spoke to soon, that is very similar to the web map service
 >> > for modis viiris data.
 >> >
 >> > ( Still very glad to have it as a wms rather than a web map )
 >> >
 >> > I do not see any hot spots near Sveg.
 >> >
 >> > I was hoping Swedish new reports might help locate the actual fire
 >> > sites.
 >> >
 >> >
 >> >
 >> > On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 8:05 PM, NKA mapper  
 >> > wrote:
 >> >> This WMS will show the actual fire areas:
 >> >>
 >> >> https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/wms/?FORMAT=image/PNG=1.1.1=WMS=GetMap=fires_modis_7,fires_viirs_7=={proj}={width}={height}={bbox}
 >> >>
 >> >>
 >> >> Den ons. 25. jul. 2018 kl. 18:42 skrev Blake Girardot
 >> >> :
 >> >>>
 >> >>> Hi all,
 >> >>>
 >> >>> Can someone help me 

Re: [OSM-talk-fr] nom des réseaux de transport en commun

[osm . sanspourriel]

Le 25/07/2018 à 18:34, marc marc - marc_marc_...@hotmail.com a écrit :


Si un utilisateur veux la liste des network dans un département,
l'api permet déjà de le faire, sans avoir besoin de dupliquer cette info
dans la valeur network
Ce n'est pour cela que la clé est utilisée, c'est que l'API de création 
de ligne graphique ne permet pas de sélectionner une zone et c'est pour 
cela que la valeur doit être unique.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Overpass_API/Public_transport_examples
http://overpass-api.de/api/sketch-line?ref=1&*network=FR:R%C3%A9seau%20MAT*=100=1600 


Au fait Marc (l'autre) il manque des accents dans certaines relations :
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6230932 (Reseau)
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Signalisation routiere

[osm . sanspourriel]

Je ne sais pas taguer les éboulis sauf (sur) navette dans les 4 km qui 
suivent ;-).


Visiblement ils ont oublié de déplace le panneau "Sauf navette" quand 
ils ont pris le chalumeau.


Avec Osmose et les panneaux routiers il y un problème : on propose 
d'intégrer des panneaux à 90 datant d'avant la mise à jour des vitesses. 
Disons plutôt qu'il faut faire attention.


Jean-Louis : à remonter à Mapillary ?
Frédéric : un filtrage à faire en plus ? Si tu pouvais en plus nous 
copier "maxspeed=80
source:maxspeed=sign" (la vitesse mesurée) pour qu'on fasse juste un 
CTRL+SHIFT+V dans JOSM , ce serait tip-top.


Jean-Yvon

Le 26/07/2018 à 00:24, François Lacombe - fl.infosrese...@gmail.com a 
écrit :

Bonsoir à tous,

Dans la catégorie signalisation un peu délirante, voici ma contribution :
https://imgur.com/iMwsXsW
Il manque plus que les guirlandes

Et en plus c'est pour réguler un axe particulièrement fréquenté, 
saturé même

https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4308873732

Alors comment on tague ça ? :)

François


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Re: [Talk-us] Senseless Sidewalks Part 2: Crisis Averted

[Kevin Kenny]

On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 6:32 PM Nick Bolten  wrote:
> First, the title: Frederik Ramm noticed that 9 ways, representing a total of 
> 18 nodes, in Austin, Texas were untagged, and they should've been tagged as 
> sidewalks (footways). I fixed them. It took less than two minutes as I also 
> cleaned up the area a bit to add some crossings, curb ramps, and fixmes.
>
> Those edits were made by a collaborator of mine, and I'll look into why we 
> didn't see the changeset comments to fix the data errors earlier. If in 
> doubt, you can always contact me about these issues, but I know that's not 
> going to be widely advertised and is a bit of a hassle - so we'll fix our end.
>
> As for the rest of the comments: I am very confused as to why a fairly small 
> number of data errors (ignoring the massive data contributions) seems to 
> result in an existential crisis on OSM mailing lists. I don't mean that 
> noticing and pointing out data errors is bad, just that the response is 
> completely disproportionate, full of contempt for others, and leads to 
> pointless infighting. As a community project that depends on volunteer 
> efforts, these forums should be much more welcoming and seek to build 
> consensus with constructive feedback. All I need to know is that there was a 
> data error and I'll fix it / have someone fix it.


Good to know that the affair appears to be turning out to be a tempest
in a teapot. Thanks for the update!

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Re: [Talk-us] Senseless Germans, again.

[Kevin Kenny]

On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 11:32 AM Ian Dees  wrote:
> Hearing that Americans "inhabit a culture of ad-hoc expedience and 
> sloppiness" or getting an email from a member of the Data Working Group 
> threatening to revert your contributions is not particularly inspiring. It's 
> no wonder it's so hard to build a community in the US. Our own community is 
> working against us!
>
> Let's not tone down the rhetoric: OSM is a great project and we should be 
> excited about it. Let's just stop pushing away mappers who are trying to help.

TL;DR: I am an American myself, and I do recognize that our standard
of mapping is considerably less tidy than what the Europeans have come
to expect. We have, in fact, mapped rather sloppily and with ad-hoc
expedience. We've had to. If we tried to reach the European standard
out of the gate, most of our map would be entirely blank! We do the
best we can with the resources we have, and often fall short of the
mark. Don't put us down for that, we're aware of it, and we're trying,
really! And try to be patient when we get prickly - we all get tired
of hearing in how many ways we fall short.

(More details...)

We inhabit rather a messy country, from the data management
perspective. We confound the tagging people with ambiguities, mess up
the map with indefinite boundaries, don't have a well-defined system
for road classification, and so on. It's untidy, but that's how our
country works. Please don't try to get us to fix it, that won't be
productive. For just one example, I know there are township lines in
the Adirondacks that have overlaps and gores. You know what? They do
on the official maps, and they do in the field.  Mostly, they're in
the backwoods where nobody cares. Some of them haven't ever been
surveyed accurately. (Gore Mountain,
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/357562059, is named because it lay
between townships for decades. Then Barton found garnets there, and
both neighbouring townships contended for the right to tax the mines.
That border, at least, got resolved.) We still like to map our
administrative regions with closed polygons, because so much of the
rendering software breaks when administrative boundaries fail to
close. We fudge the errors of closure. That's an unclean, ad-hoc
expedient, and reflects precisely what we have in the field!

We have a shortage of mappers trying to cover an extremely large land
area. We may also have other cultural issues that inhibit our
recruiting - I seem to recall that in addition to having much less
population density, we have fewer mappers per capita. I'm at a loss to
explain that, but I will confess to not being a terribly effective
recruiter, myself. I talk to people about it. Few act upon my talk.

It could be that our recruiting was irretrievably damaged by such
things as the TIGER import - Frederik would certainly argue the case,
and present provocative sociological studies advancing the claim. But,
for weal or woe, that train left the station years before I got here.
I try to pick up after the tiger. It's a daunting prospect, and I've
not got very far. It's not my chief interest in mapping.

I more got into the project to do hiking maps, and a lot of my mapping
has been devoted to that aim - including trying to produce trail maps
in less-popular areas where no accurate trail maps exist or have ever
existed. This, too, implies a certain degree of expediency and
sloppiness. I don't *like* it that
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4286650 was largely produced
from single GPS tracks without redundancy, but gathering even the data
that I had meant a couple of weeks spent in the backcountry, without
network access, and with access to AC power to recharge my devices at
only two intermediate points. I'm sure that the accuracy leaves much
to be desired, and the currency of the data has fallen behind as well.
I know of at least one reroute around beaver activity that has not
been mapped, simply because I don't know anyone who's got in there
with a GPS and a functioning battery. But it's still more accurate
than the latest map from National Geographic!

We do indeed have newcomers leaving awkward messes behind. Some of
them claim to be acting in the name of big projects. My guess is that
the OpenSidewalks project people at University of Washington, if
indeed they're still a going concern, have not even heard of the
people who decided to contribute to their effort at the University of
Texas at Austin. Just because the UT-Austin people identified with the
project's goals, doesn't mean that there's any coordination between
them. (You can think of a lot of these projects as 'OSM in miniature,
without the DWG'.)

By the way, I'm not impugning the DWG in any respect. I've had to
contact them a few times, for this and for that, and never met with
anything but patience, helpful hard work and good cheer. That's what
I've seen in my interactions with Paul, Toby, Andy, and yes, even
Frederik. For that reason, I'm sure that the remark 

Re: [Talk-se] Trying to locate actual fire locations for mapping projects

[Karl Wettin]

The press contact is open 24/7, so I called them.

MSB knows nothing more than that they are placed in Gävleborg and Jämtlands
län. It is up to each län to decide where they will be deployed. Our best
shot is probably getting a hold of someone in the actual team of
firefighters that can let us know when and where they are deployed.


kalle

2018-07-26 0:25 GMT+02:00 Karl Wettin :

> +1
>
> I’ll try to get in touch the MSB press contact tomorrow (the least
> invasive point of contact I can think of) to see if they have any
> information regarding the whereabout of the polish brigades.
>
> 25 juli 2018 kl. 22:06 skrev Christoffer Holmstedt <
> christoffer.holmst...@gmail.com>:
>
> The new project 4912 covers the other project's area is this wise?
>
> I think it would be more wise to cover the areas south and south west of
> Sveg but do _not_ include "Älvdalens Skjutfält"/Trängslet [3] as there are
> undetonated ammunition in that area so no firefighters are allowed to go in
> there. One or more HOT OSM project(s) covering Strandasmyrvallen [1] and
> Lillhärdal [2] would be my best suggestions for mapping efforts without any
> proper communication with the Polish firefighters.
>
> [1] http://emergency.copernicus.eu/mapping/ems-product-component/EMSR298_
> 05STRANDASMYRVALLEN_01DELINEATION_MONIT01/2
> [2] http://emergency.copernicus.eu/mapping/ems-product-component/EMSR298_
> 04LILLHARDAL_01DELINEATION_MAP/1
> [3] http://emergency.copernicus.eu/mapping/ems-product-
> component/EMSR298_03TRANGSLET_01DELINEATION_MONIT01/1
> --
> Christoffer Holmstedt
>
> 2018-07-25 21:49 GMT+02:00 Blake Girardot :
>
>> Greetings,
>>
>> I created a 2nd project for the area SE of Sveg (I left out the SW
>> area based on Mattias's comments)
>>
>> https://tasks.hotosm.org/contribute?difficulty=ALL=OSM-SE
>>
>> Respectfully,
>> blake
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 8:52 PM, Mattias Lindblad  wrote:
>> > Unfortunately that map marks everything, from small wastebasket-fires
>> that
>> > are already extinguished to huge  wildfires.
>> >
>> > http://effis.jrc.ec.europa.eu/static/effis_current_situation
>> /public/index.html
>> > is a bit less detailed, but can be zoomed and use an OSM layer.
>> >
>> > The area that Blake referred to as being SW of Sveg is probably the
>> fire in
>> > the military area Trängslet, which is very problematic in many aspects.
>> I
>> > would think that the Polish force is not deployed there.
>> >
>> > /Mattias
>> >
>> > ons 25 juli 2018 kl. 20:40 skrev Björn Stenberg :
>> >>
>> >> SOS Alarm keeps an updated map here:
>> >> https://www.sosalarm.se/lagesbild-brand
>> >>
>> >> This map is referred to by government agency sites so it is probably
>> the
>> >> best publicly available. Unfortunately it is rather zoomed out so I'm
>> not
>> >> sure it is good enough for our purpose.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Björn
>> >> On 25 July 2018 8:24:05 pm Blake Girardot  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > whoops I spoke to soon, that is very similar to the web map service
>> >> > for modis viiris data.
>> >> >
>> >> > ( Still very glad to have it as a wms rather than a web map )
>> >> >
>> >> > I do not see any hot spots near Sveg.
>> >> >
>> >> > I was hoping Swedish new reports might help locate the actual fire
>> >> > sites.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 8:05 PM, NKA mapper 
>> wrote:
>> >> >> This WMS will show the actual fire areas:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/wms/?FORMAT=image/PNG;
>> VERSION=1.1.1=WMS=GetMap=fires_modis_
>> 7,fires_viirs_7=={proj}={width}={
>> height}={bbox}
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Den ons. 25. jul. 2018 kl. 18:42 skrev Blake Girardot
>> >> >> :
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Hi all,
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Can someone help me locate the actual locations of the fires for
>> these
>> >> >>> two general areas?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> the polish crew will be placed in Ljusdalen and the other half
>> around
>> >> >>> Sveg
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> I can not locate the actual fire locations around those two areas.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Could someone locate those fire areas and send me a geojson or .osm
>> >> >>> file so I can create projects around them please?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Respectfully,
>> >> >>> blake
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> --
>> >> >>> 
>> >> >>> Blake Girardot
>> >> >>> OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
>> >> >>> HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
>> >> >>> skype: jblakegirardot
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> ___
>> >> >>> Talk-se mailing list
>> >> >>> Talk-se@openstreetmap.org
>> >> >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ___
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>> >> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > 
>> >> 

[Talk-us] Senseless Sidewalks Part 2: Crisis Averted

[Nick Bolten]

Hello everyone! This is Nick Bolten with the OpenSidewalks group. By some
oversight, I wasn't subscribed to talk-us, and since the system is based on
mailing lists (in 2018) that means I can't jump into the previous thread to
help clear things up, so I'm making a new post.

First, the title: Frederik Ramm noticed that 9 ways, representing a total
of 18 nodes, in Austin, Texas were untagged, and they should've been tagged
as sidewalks (footways). I fixed them. It took less than two minutes as I
also cleaned up the area a bit to add some crossings, curb ramps, and
fixmes.

Those edits were made by a collaborator of mine, and I'll look into why we
didn't see the changeset comments to fix the data errors earlier. If in
doubt, you can always contact me about these issues, but I know that's not
going to be widely advertised and is a bit of a hassle - so we'll fix our
end.

As for the rest of the comments: I am very confused as to why a fairly
small number of data errors (ignoring the massive data contributions) seems
to result in an existential crisis on OSM mailing lists. I don't mean that
noticing and pointing out data errors is bad, just that the response is
completely disproportionate, full of contempt for others, and leads to
pointless infighting. As a community project that depends on volunteer
efforts, these forums should be much more welcoming and seek to build
consensus with constructive feedback. All I need to know is that there was
a data error and I'll fix it / have someone fix it.

Specifically, I unfortunately feel I must address Frederik directly: this
is not the first time you've addressed the OpenSidewalks project with open
contempt. In fact, receiving baseless and speculative contempt from
Frederik was one of our very first experiences reaching out to the
community. Luckily, our team was and is invested in creating high-quality
pedestrian data in OpenStreetMap, and this did not impact the project
itself - though it did make about half the team upset for half a day. I'm
addressing you specifically, Frederik, not because I want to pick on you or
create yet more email drama, but because your type of feedback in these
situations is both uncalled for, completely unproductive, and leads to
these massive wastes of time, and it would be good for everyone if it
stopped. Examples of comments that waste time, are needlessly negative and
speculative, or both:

> I really wonder what the purpose of this is. At least they're all tagged
with "project=OpenSidewalks" which makes it easier to delete them once the
project has run out...

> What pisses me off is when bumbling newbiedom goes hand in hand with
bigmouthed web sites about how the so-and-so project is making the world a
better place, and then I look at what the project with the cool "store
front" actually does in OSM and see rubbish.

> So my impression is, there's a project here that has invested a
significant part of their time into convincing third parties that they're
doing a great thing (maybe even convincing third parties that they're worth
funding), but they treat OSM with much less diligence than they spend on
their store front.

> If OSM was anything valuable to them, anything worth caring for, and not
just a vehicle to piggyback their project on, then they would provide
better training and supervision to their students so that mistakes like the
ones I randomly stumbled across either do not happen, or are corrected.

I'd like to remind everyone reading that this is in response to ways using
a total of 18 nodes that I fixed in less than two minutes. I'd also like to
interject and point to the thousands and thousands of high-quality
pedestrian ways that we've added, certainly to the Seattle, Washington
region, an area I've mapped large portions of by hand. Frederik is not
familiar with our work, nor has he done the research to understand it, nor
has he reached out to us: he is being speculative (frankly, dishonest) and
demeaning.

So, Frederik, in the future, please try to take more care with what you
write, and how you address contributors and others. As an American who
speaks German and has many German friends, I know this is neither a
language nor cultural issue, and is a matter of individual tact. Please
take this under advisement in future conversations.

Best,

Nick
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Re: [Talk-se] Trying to locate actual fire locations for mapping projects

[Karl Wettin]

+1

I’ll try to get in touch the MSB press contact tomorrow (the least invasive 
point of contact I can think of) to see if they have any information regarding 
the whereabout of the polish brigades. 

> 25 juli 2018 kl. 22:06 skrev Christoffer Holmstedt 
> :
> 
> The new project 4912 covers the other project's area is this wise? 
> 
> I think it would be more wise to cover the areas south and south west of Sveg 
> but do _not_ include "Älvdalens Skjutfält"/Trängslet [3] as there are 
> undetonated ammunition in that area so no firefighters are allowed to go in 
> there. One or more HOT OSM project(s) covering Strandasmyrvallen [1] and 
> Lillhärdal [2] would be my best suggestions for mapping efforts without any 
> proper communication with the Polish firefighters.
> 
> [1] 
> http://emergency.copernicus.eu/mapping/ems-product-component/EMSR298_05STRANDASMYRVALLEN_01DELINEATION_MONIT01/2
> [2] 
> http://emergency.copernicus.eu/mapping/ems-product-component/EMSR298_04LILLHARDAL_01DELINEATION_MAP/1
> [3] 
> http://emergency.copernicus.eu/mapping/ems-product-component/EMSR298_03TRANGSLET_01DELINEATION_MONIT01/1
> -- 
> Christoffer Holmstedt
> 
> 2018-07-25 21:49 GMT+02:00 Blake Girardot :
>> Greetings,
>> 
>> I created a 2nd project for the area SE of Sveg (I left out the SW
>> area based on Mattias's comments)
>> 
>> https://tasks.hotosm.org/contribute?difficulty=ALL=OSM-SE
>> 
>> Respectfully,
>> blake
>> 
>> On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 8:52 PM, Mattias Lindblad  wrote:
>> > Unfortunately that map marks everything, from small wastebasket-fires that
>> > are already extinguished to huge  wildfires.
>> >
>> > http://effis.jrc.ec.europa.eu/static/effis_current_situation/public/index.html
>> > is a bit less detailed, but can be zoomed and use an OSM layer.
>> >
>> > The area that Blake referred to as being SW of Sveg is probably the fire in
>> > the military area Trängslet, which is very problematic in many aspects. I
>> > would think that the Polish force is not deployed there.
>> >
>> > /Mattias
>> >
>> > ons 25 juli 2018 kl. 20:40 skrev Björn Stenberg :
>> >>
>> >> SOS Alarm keeps an updated map here:
>> >> https://www.sosalarm.se/lagesbild-brand
>> >>
>> >> This map is referred to by government agency sites so it is probably the
>> >> best publicly available. Unfortunately it is rather zoomed out so I'm not
>> >> sure it is good enough for our purpose.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Björn
>> >> On 25 July 2018 8:24:05 pm Blake Girardot  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > whoops I spoke to soon, that is very similar to the web map service
>> >> > for modis viiris data.
>> >> >
>> >> > ( Still very glad to have it as a wms rather than a web map )
>> >> >
>> >> > I do not see any hot spots near Sveg.
>> >> >
>> >> > I was hoping Swedish new reports might help locate the actual fire
>> >> > sites.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 8:05 PM, NKA mapper  wrote:
>> >> >> This WMS will show the actual fire areas:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/wms/?FORMAT=image/PNG=1.1.1=WMS=GetMap=fires_modis_7,fires_viirs_7=={proj}={width}={height}={bbox}
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Den ons. 25. jul. 2018 kl. 18:42 skrev Blake Girardot
>> >> >> :
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Hi all,
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Can someone help me locate the actual locations of the fires for these
>> >> >>> two general areas?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> the polish crew will be placed in Ljusdalen and the other half around
>> >> >>> Sveg
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> I can not locate the actual fire locations around those two areas.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Could someone locate those fire areas and send me a geojson or .osm
>> >> >>> file so I can create projects around them please?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Respectfully,
>> >> >>> blake
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> --
>> >> >>> 
>> >> >>> Blake Girardot
>> >> >>> OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
>> >> >>> HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
>> >> >>> skype: jblakegirardot
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> ___
>> >> >>> Talk-se mailing list
>> >> >>> Talk-se@openstreetmap.org
>> >> >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ___
>> >> >> Talk-se mailing list
>> >> >> Talk-se@openstreetmap.org
>> >> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > 
>> >> > Blake Girardot
>> >> > OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
>> >> > HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
>> >> > skype: jblakegirardot
>> >> >
>> >> > ___
>> >> > Talk-se mailing list
>> >> > Talk-se@openstreetmap.org
>> >> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ___
>> >> Talk-se 

[OSM-talk-fr] Signalisation routiere

[François Lacombe]

Bonsoir à tous,

Dans la catégorie signalisation un peu délirante, voici ma contribution :
https://imgur.com/iMwsXsW
Il manque plus que les guirlandes

Et en plus c'est pour réguler un axe particulièrement fréquenté, saturé même
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/4308873732

Alors comment on tague ça ? :)

François
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Re: [Talk-se] Trying to locate actual fire locations for mapping projects

[Micke]

Hello,



That is the same area as the already existing HOT project.



I think this link is good to see the fires. I didn't see anyone mention it.

https://kartor.skogsstyrelsen.se/kartorapp/?startapp=skogligagrunddata



The fire near "Österdalälven and "Skjufält" is the military shooting area, 
"Trängslet".



There seem to be 4 fires close to Sveg and Ljusdal. I guess the two largest are 
of most interest. The one closest to Ljusdal already has and active HOT project.

https://tasks.hotosm.org/project/4904





I hope this was helpful, not making things more complicated. 





Regards



AndersAndersson





-Ursprungligt meddelande-
Från: Blake Girardot 
Skickat: den 25 juli 2018 21:49
Till: OpenStreetMap Sverige mailinglista 
Ämne: Re: [Talk-se] Trying to locate actual fire locations for mapping projects



Greetings,



I created a 2nd project for the area SE of Sveg (I left out the SW area based 
on Mattias's comments)



https://tasks.hotosm.org/contribute?difficulty=ALL=OSM-SE



Respectfully,

blake



On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 8:52 PM, Mattias Lindblad 
mailto:o...@matli.net>> wrote:

> Unfortunately that map marks everything, from small wastebasket-fires

> that are already extinguished to huge  wildfires.

>

> http://effis.jrc.ec.europa.eu/static/effis_current_situation/public/in

> dex.html is a bit less detailed, but can be zoomed and use an OSM

> layer.

>

> The area that Blake referred to as being SW of Sveg is probably the

> fire in the military area Trängslet, which is very problematic in many

> aspects. I would think that the Polish force is not deployed there.

>

> /Mattias

>

> ons 25 juli 2018 kl. 20:40 skrev Björn Stenberg 
> mailto:bj...@haxx.se>>:

>>

>> SOS Alarm keeps an updated map here:

>> https://www.sosalarm.se/lagesbild-brand

>>

>> This map is referred to by government agency sites so it is probably

>> the best publicly available. Unfortunately it is rather zoomed out so

>> I'm not sure it is good enough for our purpose.

>>

>> --

>> Björn

>> On 25 July 2018 8:24:05 pm Blake Girardot 
>> mailto:bgirar...@gmail.com>> wrote:

>>

>> > whoops I spoke to soon, that is very similar to the web map service

>> > for modis viiris data.

>> >

>> > ( Still very glad to have it as a wms rather than a web map )

>> >

>> > I do not see any hot spots near Sveg.

>> >

>> > I was hoping Swedish new reports might help locate the actual fire

>> > sites.

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 8:05 PM, NKA mapper 
>> > mailto:nkamap...@gmail.com>> wrote:

>> >> This WMS will show the actual fire areas:

>> >>

>> >> https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/wms/?FORMAT=image/PNG

>> >> =1.1.1=WMS=GetMap=fires_modis_7,fires_viirs

>> >> _7=={proj}={width}={height}={bbox}

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Den ons. 25. jul. 2018 kl. 18:42 skrev Blake Girardot

>> >> mailto:bgirar...@gmail.com>>:

>> >>>

>> >>> Hi all,

>> >>>

>> >>> Can someone help me locate the actual locations of the fires for

>> >>> these two general areas?

>> >>>

>> >>> the polish crew will be placed in Ljusdalen and the other half

>> >>> around Sveg

>> >>>

>> >>> I can not locate the actual fire locations around those two areas.

>> >>>

>> >>> Could someone locate those fire areas and send me a geojson or

>> >>> .osm file so I can create projects around them please?

>> >>>

>> >>> Respectfully,

>> >>> blake

>> >>>

>> >>>

>> >>>

>> >>> --

>> >>> 

>> >>> Blake Girardot

>> >>> OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot

>> >>> HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot

>> >>> skype: jblakegirardot

>> >>>

>> >>> ___

>> >>> Talk-se mailing list

>> >>> Talk-se@openstreetmap.org

>> >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> ___

>> >> Talk-se mailing list

>> >> Talk-se@openstreetmap.org

>> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se

>> >>

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> > --

>> > 

>> > Blake Girardot

>> > OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot

>> > HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot

>> > skype: jblakegirardot

>> >

>> > ___

>> > Talk-se mailing list

>> > Talk-se@openstreetmap.org

>> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> ___

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>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se

>

>

> ___

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>

Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Chalets de montagne

[marc marc]

Le 25. 07. 18 à 22:46, EpicKiwi a écrit :
> chaque chalet dispose d'un nom qui les désignent à la place de l'adresse.

addr:housename=
a combiner avec une relation associatedStreet ou un addr:street ou un 
addr:place= s'il n'y a pas de nom de rue

> Quel valeur doit-je mettre sur le tag building=

cela dépend de l'apparence du bâtiment.
si cela ressemble à une maison mais construit en bois building=house
si cela ressemble à un petit chalet building=cabin
tu parles d'appartement situé dans ces chalets, j'imagine donc un gros 
batiments typique des stations de ski... et je me demande quoi mettre
sans doute que j'aurais mis building=residential à défaut de mieux.

> puis-je mettre un tag name= pour donner le nom du chalet de montage.
> Ces chalets sont des bâtiments résidentiels composés d'appartement qui
> peuvent être loués ou non.
le tag name sous-entend que c'est le nom d'un fonction décrit par un 
autre tag
si si c'est une location touristique, cela peux s'envisager
mais si c'est le nom de l'adresse postale comme tu parlais initialement,
addr:housename est bien adapté
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Re: [Talk-it] Nodo linea ferroviaria spostato

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 23. Jul 2018, at 15:36, nico...@tiscali.it wrote:
> 
> ho già scritto all'utente e non sono molto pratico di revert, nel caso 
> qualcuno potrebbe risistemare il nodo 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1270405777 che sicuramente è stato 
> spostato involontariamente dall'utente 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/LRagazzi nel gruppo di modifiche 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/60244142


qui non vedo più risposte, la soluzione sembra è stata la cancellazione del 
nodo? Era intenzionale?
https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1270405777/history

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[Talk-transit] Transport mode on platforms? (Was: Re: [Tagging] Documentation issues of PT tagging schemes)

[SelfishSeahorse]

Hi

It seems that the only problem with PTv2 that remains is the rendering
of public_transport=platform, i.e. whether public_transport=platform
(and maybe public_transport=station too) should get the transport mode
tag(s) (bus=yes/tram=yes/...).

Note that the PTv2 proposal suggested to map the *stop position* 'as
an icon depending of the vehicle type that is stopping at the
position',[1] which may have led to some people mapping only
stop_position's, others mapping only platform's and still others
mapping stop_position's and platform's which in turn has led to
complication and confusion.

[1]: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Public_Transport_v3

As this question pops up every now and then, it might make sense to
finish discussing this.

I'm double posting this message on the transport mailing list, so that
the discussion can continue there.

Regards
Markus

On Wed, 25 Jul 2018 at 19:25, Roland Olbricht  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> > What I would like to see is how to map a Public Transport Route in
> > version 3 .. that has the bear minimum of things to have and the rules
> > that make the route valid.
>
> This is where the problem sits; the point of view of what a route is
> vary wildly. Few people are even willing to pinpoint and tell their
> personal definition.
>
> Things that exist under the notion of route:
>
> - Urban bus/tram/subway services (many stops, many departures, route
> taken always or almost always the same, route through the street grid
> practically fixed, often unchanged for years to decades)
>
> - Peak services, special routes to depot, school services (few
> departures, many stops, also many route variants, frequently changing,
> making it impractical to route them all)
>
> - Hail bus services: the bus is promised to serve a certain street and
> stops on hail (many departures, route taken always or almost always the
> same, route through the street grid practically fixed, often unchanged
> for years to decades)
>
> - Urban and regional train lines (many stops, many departures, route and
> platforms fixed). Those routes are often in parts or completely land marks.
>
> - Long distance train lines (many stops, many departures, route and
> platforms may or may not vary, can stop at a different platform of the
> same station for operational reasons)
>
> - Long distance bus services (few stops, few departures, route between
> stops often changing on the fly)
>
> - Ferry lines (often only two stops, completely different
> infrastructure)
>
> Further kinds of routes may exist. For example, some communties use
> virtual metro lines that connect station node to station node. This is
> most often because the communties lack the ressources to map the actual
> underground structures.
>
> I personally map only urban bus/tram/subway services and urban and
> regional train lines (and do not delete other routes). For these
> services it is sane to have marked the stops and the route on the grid.
>
> The route on the grid is straightforward: this is in any PT scheme a
> sequence of way members that together form a continuous trajectory. Hail
> sections get a special role for these members.
>
> The stop part is more tricky. I personally add one element for each stop
> where the bus/train is calling, using the role "platform". The member
> element should have the tag "name" set to ensure meaningful usage and
> pain-free editing of the route.
>
> The minimum required tags on the relation are "ref=",
> somtimes "name=", and "type=route" + "route=bus" for buses.
>
> Please do not forget that a more detailed explaination fits better on
> the transit list
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
> I would suggest to continue the discussion there, but Ilya has for
> unknown reason fear of the talk-transit list. It makes sense to give him
> an easy opportunity to answer.
>
> I read Ilya's proposal such that he wants to feature the virtual metro
> lines, at the expense of mandating to map hail services as empty
> relations. But it would be better if he tells us himself.
>
> Best regards,
> Roland
>
> ___
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[OSM-talk-fr] Chalets de montagne

[EpicKiwi]

Bonjour à tous,

J'aimerais donner les noms des chalets de montagne d'uns station de ski.
Cette station est française et chaque chalet dispose d'un nom qui les
désignent à la place de l'adresse.
Quel valeur doit-je mettre sur le tag building= et puis-je mettre un tag
name= pour donner le nom du chalet de montage.
Ces chalets sont des bâtiments résidentiels composés d'appartement qui
peuvent être loués ou non.

EpicKiwi



--
Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/France-f5380434.html

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Re: [Talk-us] Hostility towards US mappers

[Christoph Hormann]

On Wednesday 25 July 2018, Bryan Housel wrote:
> Hey Christoph, you make a good point, and I apologize for the
> flippant subject line. I realize that changing “Senseless sidewalks”
> to “Senseless Germans” distracts from the overall point that I was
> trying to make.  In truth, most sidewalks are fine and most Germans
> are sensible people.

Thanks, that is much appreciated.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [Talk-us] Hostility towards US mappers

[Frederik Ramm]

Bryan,

On 07/25/2018 09:40 PM, Bryan Housel wrote:
> That said - Frederik’s message made me really angry.  I’m still pretty upset 
> about it.  To your analogy, I’d never go on talk-de and threaten to revert 
> the work of some students in Germany just because they didn’t connect some 
> lines. 

What made me angry when I saw the edits was not that they were buggy -
anyone starts out making buggy edits and I still make them to this day.
And there's no difference between bumbling US newbies and bumbling
German newbies or anywhere else in the world.

What pisses me off is when bumbling newbiedom goes hand in hand with
bigmouthed web sites about how the so-and-so project is making the world
a better place, and then I look at what the project with the cool "store
front" actually does in OSM and see rubbish. This is not the work of a
student who has just discovered OSM and is taking their first steps.
This is the work of a student who has signed up for a project, and been
instructed by someone who is ultimately part of the group that makes the
cool public-facing web site about OpenSidewalks. And what I see in OSM
is not something that is suitable to achieve the project goals. It
should be in the project's own interest to avoid or repair this.

So my impression is, there's a project here that has invested a
significant part of their time into convincing third parties that
they're doing a great thing (maybe even convincing third parties that
they're worth funding), but they treat OSM with much less diligence than
they spend on their store front. In the end, it seems to be "good
enough" to have students add disjunct lines that are unlikely to ever
achieve any of the goals OpenSidewalks claims to pursue.

If OSM was anything valuable to them, anything worth caring for, and not
just a vehicle to piggyback their project on, then they would provide
better training and supervision to their students so that mistakes like
the ones I randomly stumbled across either do not happen, or are corrected.

This is nothing to do with US mappers in general, I only posted here
because it happens to be a US location. Similar things happen everywhere
(even though some cultures seem more prone to do big PR than others). It
is not even about mappers at all, because it is much more likely that
those enlisting, instructing, and supervising the student are at fault
here than that the student received excellent instructions and just
wasn't up to it.

I have no clue what the student(s) have been instructed to do, but
whatever the goal is, the activity we see performed here is very
unlikely to help achieve it. Those who set this up are responsible for
fixing it; they can't just set up a half-baked project and then hope
that OSM is somehow going to fix it.

I am absolutely hostile towards projects treating OSM like an
ever-forgiving receptacle into which you can pour anything half-baked
and "the others" are somehow magically going to make it right. This is a
deeply disrespectful attitude towards all those who are already spending
lots of time building OSM.

And if the occasional threat of reverting the whole lot is required to
nudge the people managing such projects towards more diligence then
that's a good thing for all of OSM!

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [Talk-se] Trying to locate actual fire locations for mapping projects

[Christoffer Holmstedt]

The new project 4912 covers the other project's area is this wise?

I think it would be more wise to cover the areas south and south west of
Sveg but do _not_ include "Älvdalens Skjutfält"/Trängslet [3] as there are
undetonated ammunition in that area so no firefighters are allowed to go in
there. One or more HOT OSM project(s) covering Strandasmyrvallen [1] and
Lillhärdal [2] would be my best suggestions for mapping efforts without any
proper communication with the Polish firefighters.

[1]
http://emergency.copernicus.eu/mapping/ems-product-component/EMSR298_05STRANDASMYRVALLEN_01DELINEATION_MONIT01/2
[2]
http://emergency.copernicus.eu/mapping/ems-product-component/EMSR298_04LILLHARDAL_01DELINEATION_MAP/1
[3]
http://emergency.copernicus.eu/mapping/ems-product-component/EMSR298_03TRANGSLET_01DELINEATION_MONIT01/1
-- 
Christoffer Holmstedt

2018-07-25 21:49 GMT+02:00 Blake Girardot :

> Greetings,
>
> I created a 2nd project for the area SE of Sveg (I left out the SW
> area based on Mattias's comments)
>
> https://tasks.hotosm.org/contribute?difficulty=ALL=OSM-SE
>
> Respectfully,
> blake
>
> On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 8:52 PM, Mattias Lindblad  wrote:
> > Unfortunately that map marks everything, from small wastebasket-fires
> that
> > are already extinguished to huge  wildfires.
> >
> > http://effis.jrc.ec.europa.eu/static/effis_current_
> situation/public/index.html
> > is a bit less detailed, but can be zoomed and use an OSM layer.
> >
> > The area that Blake referred to as being SW of Sveg is probably the fire
> in
> > the military area Trängslet, which is very problematic in many aspects. I
> > would think that the Polish force is not deployed there.
> >
> > /Mattias
> >
> > ons 25 juli 2018 kl. 20:40 skrev Björn Stenberg :
> >>
> >> SOS Alarm keeps an updated map here:
> >> https://www.sosalarm.se/lagesbild-brand
> >>
> >> This map is referred to by government agency sites so it is probably the
> >> best publicly available. Unfortunately it is rather zoomed out so I'm
> not
> >> sure it is good enough for our purpose.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Björn
> >> On 25 July 2018 8:24:05 pm Blake Girardot  wrote:
> >>
> >> > whoops I spoke to soon, that is very similar to the web map service
> >> > for modis viiris data.
> >> >
> >> > ( Still very glad to have it as a wms rather than a web map )
> >> >
> >> > I do not see any hot spots near Sveg.
> >> >
> >> > I was hoping Swedish new reports might help locate the actual fire
> >> > sites.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 8:05 PM, NKA mapper 
> wrote:
> >> >> This WMS will show the actual fire areas:
> >> >>
> >> >> https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/wms/?FORMAT=image/
> PNG=1.1.1=WMS=GetMap=fires_
> modis_7,fires_viirs_7=={proj}={width}&
> HEIGHT={height}={bbox}
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Den ons. 25. jul. 2018 kl. 18:42 skrev Blake Girardot
> >> >> :
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Hi all,
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Can someone help me locate the actual locations of the fires for
> these
> >> >>> two general areas?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> the polish crew will be placed in Ljusdalen and the other half
> around
> >> >>> Sveg
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I can not locate the actual fire locations around those two areas.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Could someone locate those fire areas and send me a geojson or .osm
> >> >>> file so I can create projects around them please?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Respectfully,
> >> >>> blake
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> --
> >> >>> 
> >> >>> Blake Girardot
> >> >>> OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
> >> >>> HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
> >> >>> skype: jblakegirardot
> >> >>>
> >> >>> ___
> >> >>> Talk-se mailing list
> >> >>> Talk-se@openstreetmap.org
> >> >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ___
> >> >> Talk-se mailing list
> >> >> Talk-se@openstreetmap.org
> >> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > 
> >> > Blake Girardot
> >> > OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
> >> > HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
> >> > skype: jblakegirardot
> >> >
> >> > ___
> >> > Talk-se mailing list
> >> > Talk-se@openstreetmap.org
> >> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Talk-se mailing list
> >> Talk-se@openstreetmap.org
> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Talk-se mailing list
> > Talk-se@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
> >
>
>
>
> --
> 
> Blake Girardot
> OSM Wiki - 

Re: [Talk-se] Trying to locate actual fire locations for mapping projects

[Christoffer Holmstedt]

I would say the best information available about forest fires is still the
Copernicus EMSR298 [1]. Though identifying which one the Polish
firefighters will be deployed to is not generally available information as
of now. Since the Polish firefighters arrived in Sweden I haven't seen any
other news item about it except the link I posted in the other thread about
Kårböle [2].

[1] http://emergency.copernicus.eu/mapping/list-of-components/EMSR298
[2]
https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/gavleborg/polska-brandstyrka-till-ljusdal-anlander-pa-tisdagen

Best regards
-- 
Christoffer Holmstedt

2018-07-25 20:52 GMT+02:00 Mattias Lindblad :

> Unfortunately that map marks everything, from small wastebasket-fires that
> are already extinguished to huge  wildfires.
>
> http://effis.jrc.ec.europa.eu/static/effis_current_
> situation/public/index.html is a bit less detailed, but can be zoomed and
> use an OSM layer.
>
> The area that Blake referred to as being SW of Sveg is probably the fire
> in the military area Trängslet, which is very problematic in many aspects.
> I would think that the Polish force is not deployed there.
>
> /Mattias
>
> ons 25 juli 2018 kl. 20:40 skrev Björn Stenberg :
>
>> SOS Alarm keeps an updated map here: https://www.sosalarm.se/
>> lagesbild-brand
>>
>> This map is referred to by government agency sites so it is probably the
>> best publicly available. Unfortunately it is rather zoomed out so I'm not
>> sure it is good enough for our purpose.
>>
>> --
>> Björn
>> On 25 July 2018 8:24:05 pm Blake Girardot  wrote:
>>
>> > whoops I spoke to soon, that is very similar to the web map service
>> > for modis viiris data.
>> >
>> > ( Still very glad to have it as a wms rather than a web map )
>> >
>> > I do not see any hot spots near Sveg.
>> >
>> > I was hoping Swedish new reports might help locate the actual fire
>> sites.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 8:05 PM, NKA mapper 
>> wrote:
>> >> This WMS will show the actual fire areas:
>> >> https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/wms/?FORMAT=image/
>> PNG=1.1.1=WMS=GetMap=fires_
>> modis_7,fires_viirs_7=={proj}={width}&
>> HEIGHT={height}={bbox}
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Den ons. 25. jul. 2018 kl. 18:42 skrev Blake Girardot <
>> bgirar...@gmail.com>:
>> >>>
>> >>> Hi all,
>> >>>
>> >>> Can someone help me locate the actual locations of the fires for these
>> >>> two general areas?
>> >>>
>> >>> the polish crew will be placed in Ljusdalen and the other half around
>> Sveg
>> >>>
>> >>> I can not locate the actual fire locations around those two areas.
>> >>>
>> >>> Could someone locate those fire areas and send me a geojson or .osm
>> >>> file so I can create projects around them please?
>> >>>
>> >>> Respectfully,
>> >>> blake
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> 
>> >>> Blake Girardot
>> >>> OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
>> >>> HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
>> >>> skype: jblakegirardot
>> >>>
>> >>> ___
>> >>> Talk-se mailing list
>> >>> Talk-se@openstreetmap.org
>> >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ___
>> >> Talk-se mailing list
>> >> Talk-se@openstreetmap.org
>> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > 
>> > Blake Girardot
>> > OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
>> > HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
>> > skype: jblakegirardot
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Talk-se mailing list
>> > Talk-se@openstreetmap.org
>> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-se mailing list
>> Talk-se@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
>>
>
> ___
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>
>
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Re: [Talk-se] Trying to locate actual fire locations for mapping projects

[Blake Girardot]

Greetings,

I created a 2nd project for the area SE of Sveg (I left out the SW
area based on Mattias's comments)

https://tasks.hotosm.org/contribute?difficulty=ALL=OSM-SE

Respectfully,
blake

On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 8:52 PM, Mattias Lindblad  wrote:
> Unfortunately that map marks everything, from small wastebasket-fires that
> are already extinguished to huge  wildfires.
>
> http://effis.jrc.ec.europa.eu/static/effis_current_situation/public/index.html
> is a bit less detailed, but can be zoomed and use an OSM layer.
>
> The area that Blake referred to as being SW of Sveg is probably the fire in
> the military area Trängslet, which is very problematic in many aspects. I
> would think that the Polish force is not deployed there.
>
> /Mattias
>
> ons 25 juli 2018 kl. 20:40 skrev Björn Stenberg :
>>
>> SOS Alarm keeps an updated map here:
>> https://www.sosalarm.se/lagesbild-brand
>>
>> This map is referred to by government agency sites so it is probably the
>> best publicly available. Unfortunately it is rather zoomed out so I'm not
>> sure it is good enough for our purpose.
>>
>> --
>> Björn
>> On 25 July 2018 8:24:05 pm Blake Girardot  wrote:
>>
>> > whoops I spoke to soon, that is very similar to the web map service
>> > for modis viiris data.
>> >
>> > ( Still very glad to have it as a wms rather than a web map )
>> >
>> > I do not see any hot spots near Sveg.
>> >
>> > I was hoping Swedish new reports might help locate the actual fire
>> > sites.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 8:05 PM, NKA mapper  wrote:
>> >> This WMS will show the actual fire areas:
>> >>
>> >> https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/wms/?FORMAT=image/PNG=1.1.1=WMS=GetMap=fires_modis_7,fires_viirs_7=={proj}={width}={height}={bbox}
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Den ons. 25. jul. 2018 kl. 18:42 skrev Blake Girardot
>> >> :
>> >>>
>> >>> Hi all,
>> >>>
>> >>> Can someone help me locate the actual locations of the fires for these
>> >>> two general areas?
>> >>>
>> >>> the polish crew will be placed in Ljusdalen and the other half around
>> >>> Sveg
>> >>>
>> >>> I can not locate the actual fire locations around those two areas.
>> >>>
>> >>> Could someone locate those fire areas and send me a geojson or .osm
>> >>> file so I can create projects around them please?
>> >>>
>> >>> Respectfully,
>> >>> blake
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> 
>> >>> Blake Girardot
>> >>> OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
>> >>> HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
>> >>> skype: jblakegirardot
>> >>>
>> >>> ___
>> >>> Talk-se mailing list
>> >>> Talk-se@openstreetmap.org
>> >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ___
>> >> Talk-se mailing list
>> >> Talk-se@openstreetmap.org
>> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > 
>> > Blake Girardot
>> > OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
>> > HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
>> > skype: jblakegirardot
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Talk-se mailing list
>> > Talk-se@openstreetmap.org
>> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-se mailing list
>> Talk-se@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
>
>
> ___
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> Talk-se@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
>



-- 

Blake Girardot
OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
skype: jblakegirardot

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Re: [Talk-us] Hostility towards US mappers

[Bryan Housel]

Hey Christoph, you make a good point, and I apologize for the flippant subject 
line. I realize that changing “Senseless sidewalks” to “Senseless Germans” 
distracts from the overall point that I was trying to make.  In truth, most 
sidewalks are fine and most Germans are sensible people.

That said - Frederik’s message made me really angry.  I’m still pretty upset 
about it.  To your analogy, I’d never go on talk-de and threaten to revert the 
work of some students in Germany just because they didn’t connect some lines.  
We all know that the connections can be added quickly with the tools that we 
have. 

It’s not ok to threaten mappers with a revert that way, and I'll continue to 
defend our growing OpenStreetMap community here in the US against bullies like 
Frederik.

Thanks, Bryan




> On Jul 25, 2018, at 12:57 PM, Christoph Hormann  wrote:
> 
> 
> I am somewhat amazed by the fact that hardly anyone from the US 
> community (where a lot of mappers routinely map abroad and should be 
> able to empathize with Frederik being concerned about an area where he 
> has no first hand knowledge of) seems to find it necessary to speak up 
> against this.  I cannot imagine someone coming to talk-de, getting 
> a "Senseless Americans" in reply and this not being immediately 
> rejected by many others - no matter how inappropriate or unfunded the 
> original message might have been.
> 
> This is talk-us of course so you are free to be as hostile and 
> dismissive towards Germans here as you like.  Still i am watching the 
> discussion with some bewilderment because in large parts (and in 
> particular in statements from representatives of OSM US) it contrasts 
> quite sharply with what i am used to in terms of American culture and 
> communication styles.
> 
> What saddens me is that those with constructive and reflective 
> commentary (Rihards and Kevin) get caught in the rage against 
> the "Senseless Germans".
> 
> Side note:  I also have my doubts if Bryan's German colleagues at work 
> appreciate this kind of remark.
> 
> -- 
> Christoph Hormann
> http://www.imagico.de/
> 
> ___
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Re: [Talk-se] Trying to locate actual fire locations for mapping projects

[Mattias Lindblad]

Unfortunately that map marks everything, from small wastebasket-fires that
are already extinguished to huge  wildfires.

http://effis.jrc.ec.europa.eu/static/effis_current_situation/public/index.html
is a bit less detailed, but can be zoomed and use an OSM layer.

The area that Blake referred to as being SW of Sveg is probably the fire in
the military area Trängslet, which is very problematic in many aspects. I
would think that the Polish force is not deployed there.

/Mattias

ons 25 juli 2018 kl. 20:40 skrev Björn Stenberg :

> SOS Alarm keeps an updated map here:
> https://www.sosalarm.se/lagesbild-brand
>
> This map is referred to by government agency sites so it is probably the
> best publicly available. Unfortunately it is rather zoomed out so I'm not
> sure it is good enough for our purpose.
>
> --
> Björn
> On 25 July 2018 8:24:05 pm Blake Girardot  wrote:
>
> > whoops I spoke to soon, that is very similar to the web map service
> > for modis viiris data.
> >
> > ( Still very glad to have it as a wms rather than a web map )
> >
> > I do not see any hot spots near Sveg.
> >
> > I was hoping Swedish new reports might help locate the actual fire sites.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 8:05 PM, NKA mapper  wrote:
> >> This WMS will show the actual fire areas:
> >>
> https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/wms/?FORMAT=image/PNG=1.1.1=WMS=GetMap=fires_modis_7,fires_viirs_7=={proj}={width}={height}={bbox}
> >>
> >>
> >> Den ons. 25. jul. 2018 kl. 18:42 skrev Blake Girardot <
> bgirar...@gmail.com>:
> >>>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> Can someone help me locate the actual locations of the fires for these
> >>> two general areas?
> >>>
> >>> the polish crew will be placed in Ljusdalen and the other half around
> Sveg
> >>>
> >>> I can not locate the actual fire locations around those two areas.
> >>>
> >>> Could someone locate those fire areas and send me a geojson or .osm
> >>> file so I can create projects around them please?
> >>>
> >>> Respectfully,
> >>> blake
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> 
> >>> Blake Girardot
> >>> OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
> >>> HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
> >>> skype: jblakegirardot
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Talk-se mailing list
> >>> Talk-se@openstreetmap.org
> >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Talk-se mailing list
> >> Talk-se@openstreetmap.org
> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > 
> > Blake Girardot
> > OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
> > HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
> > skype: jblakegirardot
> >
> > ___
> > Talk-se mailing list
> > Talk-se@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
>
>
>
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [Talk-se] Trying to locate actual fire locations for mapping projects

[Björn Stenberg]

A very good fire map is available from Gävleborgs länsstyrelse: 
https://www.lansstyrelsen.se/download/18.7b397dca164899bd38a105b8/1532544038528/20180725.pdf


--
Björn
On 25 July 2018 8:40:22 pm Björn Stenberg  wrote:


SOS Alarm keeps an updated map here: https://www.sosalarm.se/lagesbild-brand

This map is referred to by government agency sites so it is probably the
best publicly available. Unfortunately it is rather zoomed out so I'm not
sure it is good enough for our purpose.

--
Björn
On 25 July 2018 8:24:05 pm Blake Girardot  wrote:


whoops I spoke to soon, that is very similar to the web map service
for modis viiris data.

( Still very glad to have it as a wms rather than a web map )

I do not see any hot spots near Sveg.

I was hoping Swedish new reports might help locate the actual fire sites.



On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 8:05 PM, NKA mapper  wrote:

This WMS will show the actual fire areas:
https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/wms/?FORMAT=image/PNG=1.1.1=WMS=GetMap=fires_modis_7,fires_viirs_7=={proj}={width}={height}={bbox}


Den ons. 25. jul. 2018 kl. 18:42 skrev Blake Girardot :


Hi all,

Can someone help me locate the actual locations of the fires for these
two general areas?

the polish crew will be placed in Ljusdalen and the other half around Sveg

I can not locate the actual fire locations around those two areas.

Could someone locate those fire areas and send me a geojson or .osm
file so I can create projects around them please?

Respectfully,
blake



--

Blake Girardot
OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
skype: jblakegirardot

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--

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OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
skype: jblakegirardot

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Re: [Talk-se] Trying to locate actual fire locations for mapping projects

[Björn Stenberg]

SOS Alarm keeps an updated map here: https://www.sosalarm.se/lagesbild-brand

This map is referred to by government agency sites so it is probably the 
best publicly available. Unfortunately it is rather zoomed out so I'm not 
sure it is good enough for our purpose.


--
Björn
On 25 July 2018 8:24:05 pm Blake Girardot  wrote:


whoops I spoke to soon, that is very similar to the web map service
for modis viiris data.

( Still very glad to have it as a wms rather than a web map )

I do not see any hot spots near Sveg.

I was hoping Swedish new reports might help locate the actual fire sites.



On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 8:05 PM, NKA mapper  wrote:

This WMS will show the actual fire areas:
https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/wms/?FORMAT=image/PNG=1.1.1=WMS=GetMap=fires_modis_7,fires_viirs_7=={proj}={width}={height}={bbox}


Den ons. 25. jul. 2018 kl. 18:42 skrev Blake Girardot :


Hi all,

Can someone help me locate the actual locations of the fires for these
two general areas?

the polish crew will be placed in Ljusdalen and the other half around Sveg

I can not locate the actual fire locations around those two areas.

Could someone locate those fire areas and send me a geojson or .osm
file so I can create projects around them please?

Respectfully,
blake



--

Blake Girardot
OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
skype: jblakegirardot

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--

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OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
skype: jblakegirardot

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Re: [Talk-se] Trying to locate actual fire locations for mapping projects

[Mattias Lindblad]

I suppose it is  "Ljusdal" not Ljusdalen. The fires appear to be near
Kårböle, which is located just between Sveg and Ljusdal. But it would
probably be best to get information from MSB or the county administration.

/Mattias

ons 25 juli 2018 kl. 20:21 skrev Blake Girardot :

> Perfect, thank you very much!
>
> Now if you could just help me find Ljusdalen :)
>
> Sveg shows up in an OSM search but Ljusdalen does not
>
> cheers
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 8:05 PM, NKA mapper  wrote:
> > This WMS will show the actual fire areas:
> >
> https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/wms/?FORMAT=image/PNG=1.1.1=WMS=GetMap=fires_modis_7,fires_viirs_7=={proj}={width}={height}={bbox}
> >
> >
> > Den ons. 25. jul. 2018 kl. 18:42 skrev Blake Girardot <
> bgirar...@gmail.com>:
> >>
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> Can someone help me locate the actual locations of the fires for these
> >> two general areas?
> >>
> >> the polish crew will be placed in Ljusdalen and the other half around
> Sveg
> >>
> >> I can not locate the actual fire locations around those two areas.
> >>
> >> Could someone locate those fire areas and send me a geojson or .osm
> >> file so I can create projects around them please?
> >>
> >> Respectfully,
> >> blake
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> 
> >> Blake Girardot
> >> OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
> >> HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
> >> skype: jblakegirardot
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Talk-se mailing list
> >> Talk-se@openstreetmap.org
> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Talk-se mailing list
> > Talk-se@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
> >
>
>
>
> --
> 
> Blake Girardot
> OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
> HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
> skype: jblakegirardot
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] nom des réseaux de transport en commun

[Romain MEHUT]

Moi, j'ai bien envie de changer tous les "Réseau Mat" en simplement "MAT"
cf. https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malo_Agglo_Transports

Romain

Le 25 juillet 2018 à 18:34, marc marc  a écrit :

> Le 11. 07. 18 à 09:24, mga_geo a écrit :
> > Si j'en crois https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:network#Other_uses
> > la bonne valeur est "network=FR:Réseau MAT" ou "network=FR:35:Réseau MAT"
> >
> > Si l'on suit l'exemple cité dans le wiki du réseau STAR de Rennes
> Métropole,
> > la valeur à mettre est  "network=FR:Réseau MAT" il me semble ?
> > Pour le réseau STAR, j'avais utilisé la valeur "fr_star" et suite à des
> > échanges sur ce forum la valeur avait été modifiée en "FR:STAR"
>
> Star est à mon avis l'exemple de ce qu'il ne faut pas faire.
> Pour les transports en commun, network contient le nom du réseau tel
> qu'il est connu par l'utilisateur.
> Si un utilisateur cherche le réseau Star, il n'y a aucune chance qu'il
> fasse une recherche sur "fr_star" (d'autant plus que c'est FR:Star)
> donc la bonne valeur pour les apps dans ton cas c'est network=Réseau Mat
> si c'est ainsi qu'il est connu des utilisateurs.
> je ne connais aucune app qui gère les network:truc=pays:département:brol
> Si un utilisateur veux la liste des network dans un département,
> l'api permet déjà de le faire, sans avoir besoin de dupliquer cette info
> dans la valeur network
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Re: [Talk-se] Trying to locate actual fire locations for mapping projects

[Jesper Falk]

SVT have a special program for the fires now between 20:00-21:00. That
might give us clues about where efforts are made.

They will also have interviews with local authorities.

I will watch the program a bit later (available on SVT Play).

On Wed, Jul 25, 2018, 20:23 Blake Girardot  wrote:

> whoops I spoke to soon, that is very similar to the web map service
> for modis viiris data.
>
> ( Still very glad to have it as a wms rather than a web map )
>
> I do not see any hot spots near Sveg.
>
> I was hoping Swedish new reports might help locate the actual fire sites.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 8:05 PM, NKA mapper  wrote:
> > This WMS will show the actual fire areas:
> >
> https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/wms/?FORMAT=image/PNG=1.1.1=WMS=GetMap=fires_modis_7,fires_viirs_7=={proj}={width}={height}={bbox}
> >
> >
> > Den ons. 25. jul. 2018 kl. 18:42 skrev Blake Girardot <
> bgirar...@gmail.com>:
> >>
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> Can someone help me locate the actual locations of the fires for these
> >> two general areas?
> >>
> >> the polish crew will be placed in Ljusdalen and the other half around
> Sveg
> >>
> >> I can not locate the actual fire locations around those two areas.
> >>
> >> Could someone locate those fire areas and send me a geojson or .osm
> >> file so I can create projects around them please?
> >>
> >> Respectfully,
> >> blake
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> 
> >> Blake Girardot
> >> OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
> >> HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
> >> skype: jblakegirardot
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Talk-se mailing list
> >> Talk-se@openstreetmap.org
> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Talk-se mailing list
> > Talk-se@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
> >
>
>
>
> --
> 
> Blake Girardot
> OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
> HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
> skype: jblakegirardot
>
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>
-- 

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Re: [Talk-se] Trying to locate actual fire locations for mapping projects

[Blake Girardot]

Oh wait, I do, I see two sets of fires SE and SW of Sveg

On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 8:23 PM, Blake Girardot  wrote:
> whoops I spoke to soon, that is very similar to the web map service
> for modis viiris data.
>
> ( Still very glad to have it as a wms rather than a web map )
>
> I do not see any hot spots near Sveg.
>
> I was hoping Swedish new reports might help locate the actual fire sites.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 8:05 PM, NKA mapper  wrote:
>> This WMS will show the actual fire areas:
>> https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/wms/?FORMAT=image/PNG=1.1.1=WMS=GetMap=fires_modis_7,fires_viirs_7=={proj}={width}={height}={bbox}
>>
>>
>> Den ons. 25. jul. 2018 kl. 18:42 skrev Blake Girardot :
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Can someone help me locate the actual locations of the fires for these
>>> two general areas?
>>>
>>> the polish crew will be placed in Ljusdalen and the other half around Sveg
>>>
>>> I can not locate the actual fire locations around those two areas.
>>>
>>> Could someone locate those fire areas and send me a geojson or .osm
>>> file so I can create projects around them please?
>>>
>>> Respectfully,
>>> blake
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> 
>>> Blake Girardot
>>> OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
>>> HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
>>> skype: jblakegirardot
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Talk-se mailing list
>>> Talk-se@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-se mailing list
>> Talk-se@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
>>
>
>
>
> --
> 
> Blake Girardot
> OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
> HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
> skype: jblakegirardot



-- 

Blake Girardot
OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
skype: jblakegirardot

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Re: [Talk-se] Trying to locate actual fire locations for mapping projects

[Blake Girardot]

whoops I spoke to soon, that is very similar to the web map service
for modis viiris data.

( Still very glad to have it as a wms rather than a web map )

I do not see any hot spots near Sveg.

I was hoping Swedish new reports might help locate the actual fire sites.



On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 8:05 PM, NKA mapper  wrote:
> This WMS will show the actual fire areas:
> https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/wms/?FORMAT=image/PNG=1.1.1=WMS=GetMap=fires_modis_7,fires_viirs_7=={proj}={width}={height}={bbox}
>
>
> Den ons. 25. jul. 2018 kl. 18:42 skrev Blake Girardot :
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Can someone help me locate the actual locations of the fires for these
>> two general areas?
>>
>> the polish crew will be placed in Ljusdalen and the other half around Sveg
>>
>> I can not locate the actual fire locations around those two areas.
>>
>> Could someone locate those fire areas and send me a geojson or .osm
>> file so I can create projects around them please?
>>
>> Respectfully,
>> blake
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> 
>> Blake Girardot
>> OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
>> HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
>> skype: jblakegirardot
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-se mailing list
>> Talk-se@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
>
>
> ___
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
>



-- 

Blake Girardot
OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
skype: jblakegirardot

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Tagger voie bus/vélo/taxis uniquement?

[lenny.libre]

Le 24/07/2018 à 23:45, Antoine Riche a écrit :
En lisant la page 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:cycleway%3Dshare_busway et 
l'exemple illustré, je pense qu'il faudrait plutôt utiliser 
cycleway:left=opposite_share_busway. Le texte de cette page n'est pas 
très clair, la version allemande semble plus explicite (merci G***gle 
Translate).
Bonjour en ce qui concerne le ":left=opposite_lane " il m'a été répondu 
que cela avait déjà été dit plusieurs fois sur la liste (je n'ai pas 
retrouvé la dernière fois) : qu'il était est déprécié voir 
http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-discussion-comments?uid=593214 
rechercher "cycleway:left=opposite_lane est redondant"


cordialement
Leni

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Re: [Talk-se] Trying to locate actual fire locations for mapping projects

[Blake Girardot]

Perfect, thank you very much!

Now if you could just help me find Ljusdalen :)

Sveg shows up in an OSM search but Ljusdalen does not

cheers


On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 8:05 PM, NKA mapper  wrote:
> This WMS will show the actual fire areas:
> https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/wms/?FORMAT=image/PNG=1.1.1=WMS=GetMap=fires_modis_7,fires_viirs_7=={proj}={width}={height}={bbox}
>
>
> Den ons. 25. jul. 2018 kl. 18:42 skrev Blake Girardot :
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Can someone help me locate the actual locations of the fires for these
>> two general areas?
>>
>> the polish crew will be placed in Ljusdalen and the other half around Sveg
>>
>> I can not locate the actual fire locations around those two areas.
>>
>> Could someone locate those fire areas and send me a geojson or .osm
>> file so I can create projects around them please?
>>
>> Respectfully,
>> blake
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> 
>> Blake Girardot
>> OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
>> HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
>> skype: jblakegirardot
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-se mailing list
>> Talk-se@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
>
>
> ___
> Talk-se mailing list
> Talk-se@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
>



-- 

Blake Girardot
OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
skype: jblakegirardot

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Re: [Talk-us] Senseless racism

[Jordan Brod]

While I agree that national pride should be in how good the map is I think
that trying to eradicate nationalism in OSM is going to be a challenge.
It's too firmly entrenched.  Also I don't think calling someone a German is
racist, I mean it's a nationality more than a race.  Calling them senseless
might be mean or uncharitable but it's also not racist.

On Wed, Jul 25, 2018, 12:22 PM Jmapb  wrote:

> On 7/25/2018 12:57 PM, Christoph Hormann wrote:
>
> > I am somewhat amazed by the fact that hardly anyone from the US
> > community (where a lot of mappers routinely map abroad and should be
> > able to empathize with Frederik being concerned about an area where he
> > has no first hand knowledge of) seems to find it necessary to speak up
> > against this.
> Okay, count me in, American, Texan even: Cut out this racist/nationalist
> bull. Respond to people's comments without name-calling. Put the quality
> of the map first and don't take criticism personally. Grow up, apologize
> privately if you're able to, and move on.
>
> If you feel the need to show up some other nationality, do it by making
> a map so excellent that they weep.
>
> Jason
>
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Re: [Talk-se] Trying to locate actual fire locations for mapping projects

[NKA mapper]

This WMS will show the actual fire areas:
https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/wms/?FORMAT=image/PNG=1.1.1=WMS=GetMap=fires_modis_7,fires_viirs_7=={proj}={width}={height}={bbox}



Den ons. 25. jul. 2018 kl. 18:42 skrev Blake Girardot :

> Hi all,
>
> Can someone help me locate the actual locations of the fires for these
> two general areas?
>
> the polish crew will be placed in Ljusdalen and the other half around Sveg
>
> I can not locate the actual fire locations around those two areas.
>
> Could someone locate those fire areas and send me a geojson or .osm
> file so I can create projects around them please?
>
> Respectfully,
> blake
>
>
>
> --
> 
> Blake Girardot
> OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
> HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
> skype: jblakegirardot
>
> ___
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-se
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Senseless Germans, again.

[Jordan Brod]

Is it in the unwritten rules that Talk-de is always reasonable and peace
filled and Talk-us is hostile and rage filled?  It seems there is a bit of
hypocrisy in the OSM adage to rely on local mappers when someone thousands
of miles away is waiting to delete the local's contribution.  I wouldn't go
to the map in Germany and do a mass revert because the data didn't live up
to my standards, that's what notes are for.  That's what the mailing lists
are for.  That's what the DWG is for.  We don't need to be data vigilantes,
we should use the processes in hand to deal with problems, and if the
process is unwritten then somebody needs to write it down or throw it out
if it isn't important enough to write down.

On Wed, Jul 25, 2018, 11:58 AM Christoph Hormann  wrote:

>
> I am somewhat amazed by the fact that hardly anyone from the US
> community (where a lot of mappers routinely map abroad and should be
> able to empathize with Frederik being concerned about an area where he
> has no first hand knowledge of) seems to find it necessary to speak up
> against this.  I cannot imagine someone coming to talk-de, getting
> a "Senseless Americans" in reply and this not being immediately
> rejected by many others - no matter how inappropriate or unfunded the
> original message might have been.
>
> This is talk-us of course so you are free to be as hostile and
> dismissive towards Germans here as you like.  Still i am watching the
> discussion with some bewilderment because in large parts (and in
> particular in statements from representatives of OSM US) it contrasts
> quite sharply with what i am used to in terms of American culture and
> communication styles.
>
> What saddens me is that those with constructive and reflective
> commentary (Rihards and Kevin) get caught in the rage against
> the "Senseless Germans".
>
> Side note:  I also have my doubts if Bryan's German colleagues at work
> appreciate this kind of remark.
>
> --
> Christoph Hormann
> http://www.imagico.de/
>
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Re: [Talk-se] Trying to locate actual fire locations for mapping projects

[Karl Wettin]

All information that's available right now is what I was told by LM earlier
today, that half the crew is at Ljusdalen and the other half is heading to
Sveg.

The last information MSB has published about it is today at 0900 AM, that
the Polish firefighters are headed to Jämtland and Gävleborg, areas the
size of Wales.

I think we need to actually get in touch with MSB or the Polish crew if we
want to know exactly where they are deployed. Perhaps the MSB media outlet
channels? I can give it a try if you want me to.



kalle


2018-07-25 18:42 GMT+02:00 Blake Girardot :

> Hi all,
>
> Can someone help me locate the actual locations of the fires for these
> two general areas?
>
> the polish crew will be placed in Ljusdalen and the other half around Sveg
>
> I can not locate the actual fire locations around those two areas.
>
> Could someone locate those fire areas and send me a geojson or .osm
> file so I can create projects around them please?
>
> Respectfully,
> blake
>
>
>
> --
> 
> Blake Girardot
> OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
> HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
> skype: jblakegirardot
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [Talk-us] Senseless racism

[Jmapb]

On 7/25/2018 12:57 PM, Christoph Hormann wrote:


I am somewhat amazed by the fact that hardly anyone from the US
community (where a lot of mappers routinely map abroad and should be
able to empathize with Frederik being concerned about an area where he
has no first hand knowledge of) seems to find it necessary to speak up
against this.
Okay, count me in, American, Texan even: Cut out this racist/nationalist 
bull. Respond to people's comments without name-calling. Put the quality 
of the map first and don't take criticism personally. Grow up, apologize 
privately if you're able to, and move on.


If you feel the need to show up some other nationality, do it by making 
a map so excellent that they weep.


Jason

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Re: [Talk-us] Senseless Germans, again.

[Christoph Hormann]

I am somewhat amazed by the fact that hardly anyone from the US 
community (where a lot of mappers routinely map abroad and should be 
able to empathize with Frederik being concerned about an area where he 
has no first hand knowledge of) seems to find it necessary to speak up 
against this.  I cannot imagine someone coming to talk-de, getting 
a "Senseless Americans" in reply and this not being immediately 
rejected by many others - no matter how inappropriate or unfunded the 
original message might have been.

This is talk-us of course so you are free to be as hostile and 
dismissive towards Germans here as you like.  Still i am watching the 
discussion with some bewilderment because in large parts (and in 
particular in statements from representatives of OSM US) it contrasts 
quite sharply with what i am used to in terms of American culture and 
communication styles.

What saddens me is that those with constructive and reflective 
commentary (Rihards and Kevin) get caught in the rage against 
the "Senseless Germans".

Side note:  I also have my doubts if Bryan's German colleagues at work 
appreciate this kind of remark.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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[Talk-se] Trying to locate actual fire locations for mapping projects

[Blake Girardot]

Hi all,

Can someone help me locate the actual locations of the fires for these
two general areas?

the polish crew will be placed in Ljusdalen and the other half around Sveg

I can not locate the actual fire locations around those two areas.

Could someone locate those fire areas and send me a geojson or .osm
file so I can create projects around them please?

Respectfully,
blake



-- 

Blake Girardot
OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
skype: jblakegirardot

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] nom des réseaux de transport en commun

[marc marc]

Le 11. 07. 18 à 09:24, mga_geo a écrit :
> Si j'en crois https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:network#Other_uses
> la bonne valeur est "network=FR:Réseau MAT" ou "network=FR:35:Réseau MAT"
> 
> Si l'on suit l'exemple cité dans le wiki du réseau STAR de Rennes Métropole,
> la valeur à mettre est  "network=FR:Réseau MAT" il me semble ?
> Pour le réseau STAR, j'avais utilisé la valeur "fr_star" et suite à des
> échanges sur ce forum la valeur avait été modifiée en "FR:STAR"

Star est à mon avis l'exemple de ce qu'il ne faut pas faire.
Pour les transports en commun, network contient le nom du réseau tel 
qu'il est connu par l'utilisateur.
Si un utilisateur cherche le réseau Star, il n'y a aucune chance qu'il 
fasse une recherche sur "fr_star" (d'autant plus que c'est FR:Star)
donc la bonne valeur pour les apps dans ton cas c'est network=Réseau Mat 
si c'est ainsi qu'il est connu des utilisateurs.
je ne connais aucune app qui gère les network:truc=pays:département:brol
Si un utilisateur veux la liste des network dans un département,
l'api permet déjà de le faire, sans avoir besoin de dupliquer cette info 
dans la valeur network
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Osmose et validateur JSOM

[marc marc]

Le 25. 07. 18 à 12:59, mga_geo a écrit :
> Merci Marc, je n'avais pas essayé le "E".
> Le temps de traitement semble aléatoire, par exemple pour le node
> 1596702382, j'ai une erreur
> http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/fr/error/16674624680 alors que la modif date
> du 15 juillet 2018

Aussi vieux c'est un bug, j'ai ouvert un ticket
https://github.com/osm-fr/osmose-backend/issues/317
c'est peut-être un changement de class qui fait que les anciennes 
erreurs ne sont pas purgée.
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[OSM-talk] User deleting abandoned and rejected proposals on the wiki

[Michael Reichert]

Hi,

I (Mateusz Konieczny was faster) found a user who removes all content
from abandoned and rejected proposal pages on the wiki and adds the
Delete template. It's the template asking a administrator to delete the
page. I think that our admins are clever enough to not blindly follow
these requests but his edits cause unnecessary workload for them and
make it difficult to use the wiki.

I would appreciate it if someone else reading this email could comment
on his talk page. Maybe we are able to convince him why he is wrong.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User_talk:Adamant1

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Adamant1

These are some of the affected wiki pages:

*Proposal pages*
Proposed features/Adult services ‎(shop=adult and other, has not reached
RFC for 8 years)
Proposed features/parking aisle (highway=parking_aisle, rejected, has
become obselete by service=parking_aisle)
Proposed features/Bag shop (shop=bag, tag in use, proposal abandoned)
Proposed features/boat=private (boat=private, has not reached RFC since
2008)
Proposed features/Marked trail (marked_trail=, has not reached
RFC since 2008/2009)
Proposed_features/Fire_Hydrant (amenity=fire_hydrant, rejected in 2010,
12,000–14,000 objects from 2010 to 2015 in the database)
Proposed features/Driving pleasure (Driving_pleasure=1/2/3/4/5,
cancelled in 2010)
Proposed_features/agricultural_access (access=agricultural, proposal
never left draft state but 120,000 objects in the database)
Proposed_features/4th_Dimension (incomplete proposal from 2009 but long
discussion page)

*Documentation and other pages about "outdated software"
- Potlatch_1/Development_overview/GPS_tracks
- a lot of pages about Kosmos (predecessor of Maperitive), mainly
rendering rules

*Old events*
South_East_London_Mapping_Party (mapping party in 2008)

Best regards

Michael

-- 
Per E-Mail kommuniziere ich bevorzugt GPG-verschlüsselt. (Mailinglisten
ausgenommen)
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Re: [OSM-talk] the new icon for the Tag:amenity=bureau_de_change

[Colin Smale]

On 2018-07-25 17:13, Daniel Koć wrote:

> W dniu 25.07.2018 o 16:39, Colin Smale pisze:
> 
>> The Red Crystal symbol is protected by the ICRC. We can't use it, nor can we 
>> use the Red Cross or Red Crescent. There have been numerous legal cases 
>> which came down to the fact that these symbols are protected by 
>> international law. Even historical representations (vintage ambulances, 
>> hospitals etc) have an issue with this.
> 
> Well, what about red cross symbol then - isn't it also protected by ICRC?...

Yes, and the red crescent as well.

> We had similar problem with shop=sports icon:

Yup, the IOC are fanatical as well.

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Re: [Talk-us] Senseless Germans, again.

[Ian Dees]

Kevin, It's kind of odd that you request that both Bryan and Frederik tone
down the rhetoric and then generalize and repeat the rhetoric throughout
your message.

American mappers strive for the same goal as almost every other
OpenStreetMapper: to improve the map to the best of their ability. I think
what Bryan is reacting to is the consistent negative and deconstructive
comments that seem to show up on OpenStreetMap community channels (mailing
lists, forums, Reddit, IRC, weeklyOSM, etc.) about OSM data in the US.

As you say, the reaction to finding lower-quality data in OSM shouldn't be
to fire off a message threatening a wholesale revert, it should be to help
the mappers improve their mapping skills and to contribute your
improvements so they can learn. Instead of spending the time to build a
meme about how terrible TIGER data is in some areas and posting it to
Reddit then posting a tasking manager task to improve a portion of it, just
skip to creating the tasking manager task and invite folks to improve it.

Hearing that Americans "inhabit a culture of ad-hoc expedience and
sloppiness" or getting an email from a member of the Data Working Group
threatening to revert your contributions is not particularly inspiring.
It's no wonder it's so hard to build a community in the US. Our own
community is working against us!

Let's not tone down the rhetoric: OSM is a great project and we should be
excited about it. Let's just stop pushing away mappers who are trying to
help.

On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 9:53 AM Kevin Kenny  wrote:

> Please, let's tone down the rhetoric here - both of you!
>
> Frederik has a long and distinguished history with OSM. He cares about
> the map passionately. He wants very much to see things done right.
> Alas, that tends to mean that he forgets at times what it means to be
> a novice, and expects perfection in mapping from the beginning. He
> works in a part of the world that has a vibrant map community, with
> experienced locals almost everywhere to guide the way, which means
> that he actually gets near-perfection from the novices - because there
> is a generous supply of experienced mentors. For that reason, the
> Europeans, and the Germans in particular, seem to have trouble
> grasping the specific problems that we Americans face - land that is
> incomprehensibly vast to many from Europe, and far too few mappers to
> cover it.
>
> On the other hand, we Americans inhabit a culture of ad-hoc expedients
> and sloppiness - and pay for it in the map, with broken routing,
> broken rendering, and so on. We get in data that are 'just barely good
> enough' - and tend to abandon them to degrade into 'not even good
> enough' as the next urgent project beckons, of places where there are
> no usable data at all. Or go off to our other communities - after all,
> we all have lives beyond the map. (I understand that mapping is also
> what Frederik does for a living. I don't.) This leaves our map in
> disarray, and it's easy for someone to want to throw up his hands and
> rip out big stretches of it.
>
> I'm sure that I'm guilty both ways. I've no doubt field-mapped stuff
> very badly when I was learning, and I've no doubt missed going back to
> fix things. (I at least hope that I've left matters better than I've
> found them!) I've also been guilty, most likely, of damaging the
> community - by importing. I still do it - but in my defense, all of my
> imports are nearly poster children for "data not feasible for amateur
> mappers to survey in the field." (Frederik has argued stongly to me
> that this is a synonym for "data that mappers care too little about to
> deserve inclusion in OSM." I remain unconvinced.)
>
> I do try to tidy up after myself when people leave notes or changelog
> comments! I don't believe that I've ever had a change, no matter how
> large, reverted wholesale.
>
> I do see that some of the Austin sidewalk data appear to be of pretty
> questionable quality. I don't know to what extent the project has
> mapped elsewhere, or how far the problem extends. Has anyone tried to
> reach out to the mappers in question? Or - presuming that this was a
> student group - tried to find their faculty advisor?  Does the web
> site give contact information for a project leader? Are members of the
> DWG other than Frederik aware of the issue?
>
> Reverting the changes should surely be the last resort, not the first,
> and glibly tossing off, "at least they've labeled everything with the
> project, so we can delete it when they fail," is no way to recruit
> mappers! (Recruiting mappers should probably be American mappers'
> highest priority - we have so few!) On the occasions where the mappers
> and leadership are unreachable, it always should have the tone,
> "unfortunately, the original mapper in not answering communications,
> and there is a lack of resources to field-map the questionable
> features, so reversion seems to be unavoidable." The glib dismissal is
> particularly unseemly when it 

Re: [OSM-talk] the new icon for the Tag:amenity=bureau_de_change

[Colin Smale]

On 2018-07-25 17:13, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:

> I guess it would be perceived as shooting themselves in the foot if the 
> international red cross would file a lawsuit against osmf for using a red 
> cross as icon for hospitals.

It has happened before. The ICRC are totally fanatical about the
protection of their emblems. Our symbol is mauve rather than red, so we
can get away with it like that. If we render a red cross (or crescent or
crystal) on our maps it will take a fraction of a nanosecond before the
ICRC (or some national organisation) are on our case.

Example quote from the Irish Red Cross website: 

"We frequently issue requests for organisations and companies to desist
from unauthorised use of the emblem which typically involves first aid
kits, medical products, surgeries, pharmacies, repair services,
children's toys, maps and street directories. This normally entails
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Re: [OSM-talk] the new icon for the Tag:amenity=bureau_de_change

[Daniel Koć]

W dniu 25.07.2018 o 16:39, Colin Smale pisze:
> The Red Crystal symbol is protected by the ICRC. We can't use it, nor
> can we use the Red Cross or Red Crescent. There have been numerous
> legal cases which came down to the fact that these symbols are
> protected by international law. Even historical representations
> (vintage ambulances, hospitals etc) have an issue with this.

Well, what about red cross symbol then - isn't it also protected by ICRC?...

We had similar problem with shop=sports icon:

https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/1530#issuecomment-99266644

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk] the new icon for the Tag:amenity=bureau_de_change

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 25. Jul 2018, at 15:34, "oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch" 
>  wrote:
> 
> There are 180 currencies recognized as legal tender in the world [1]. I have 
> nothing against USD and EUR, but why not to use a straightforward 
> comprehensible generic icon, which covers all existing and future circulating 
> currencies?
> 
> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_circulating_currencies


not few of them use the $ as symbol though, it doesn’t necessarily stand for 
USD.

Personally, I would prefer ¥€$, it’s iconic and has currency symbols from three 
continents in it. 

cheers,
Martin 

PS: Are people still using bureaux de change? I thought they’d either get local 
money from an atm or pay with credit card.
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Re: [Talk-us] Sidewalks in Austin without any tags

[Clifford Snow]

On Wed, Jul 25, 2018 at 3:58 PM Andy Townsend  wrote:

>
>
>
> Do you (or does anyone else on this list) have a direct connection to
> the TaskarCenterAtUW account?  If so it'd be great to let them know that
> people have been trying to get in touch with them, and to get some
> information about the plans to add meaningful tags to the data that's
> been added already).  Obviously in-OSM contact methods exist but if
> someone reading this actually knows them they'd understand the context
> better.
>

I have contacts with the Taskar Center and will contact them. But I believe
Austin is running their own project, not under the direction of the Taskar
Center. I will verify it with them. It may take me a while to get an answer
so please let's not rush to remove anything.

>
> Unfortunately just "more data" is not necessarily an improvement -
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/603909001 is an example of something
> that as it currently stands really does add no value. However it's clear
> that the user who added that was aware that there was more to be done -
> they wrote "Will use JOSM to put in the appropriate tags".  It'd be good
> to know if or when they plan to do that, or whether some other approach
> (Maproulette?) might be approriate if they're no longer able to do so
> and need other people to tidy up after them.
>
>
>
I haven't looked at the data in Austin (I've been on the road and don't
have ready access to either time or internet.) So my question is are any of
the ways added not verifiable? Or is the problem that they are not fully
tagged? If the ways are accurate then I don't see a problem. If they are
adding garbage then they should be reverted.  As far as I know we don't
delete objects just because they are incomplete. If the way isn't routable
but is an actual sidewalk/footpath then it's a valid edit.

Best,
Clifford

-- 
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osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
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Re: [OSM-talk] the new icon for the Tag:amenity=bureau_de_change

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

> On 25. Jul 2018, at 16:39, Colin Smale  wrote:
> 
> The Red Crystal symbol is protected by the ICRC. We can't use it, nor can we 
> use the Red Cross or Red Crescent. There have been numerous legal cases which 
> came down to the fact that these symbols are protected by international law. 
> Even historical representations (vintage ambulances, hospitals etc) have an 
> issue with this.


I guess it would be perceived as shooting themselves in the foot if the 
international red cross would file a lawsuit against osmf for using a red cross 
as icon for hospitals.

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-us] Senseless Germans, again.

[Kevin Kenny]

Please, let's tone down the rhetoric here - both of you!

Frederik has a long and distinguished history with OSM. He cares about
the map passionately. He wants very much to see things done right.
Alas, that tends to mean that he forgets at times what it means to be
a novice, and expects perfection in mapping from the beginning. He
works in a part of the world that has a vibrant map community, with
experienced locals almost everywhere to guide the way, which means
that he actually gets near-perfection from the novices - because there
is a generous supply of experienced mentors. For that reason, the
Europeans, and the Germans in particular, seem to have trouble
grasping the specific problems that we Americans face - land that is
incomprehensibly vast to many from Europe, and far too few mappers to
cover it.

On the other hand, we Americans inhabit a culture of ad-hoc expedients
and sloppiness - and pay for it in the map, with broken routing,
broken rendering, and so on. We get in data that are 'just barely good
enough' - and tend to abandon them to degrade into 'not even good
enough' as the next urgent project beckons, of places where there are
no usable data at all. Or go off to our other communities - after all,
we all have lives beyond the map. (I understand that mapping is also
what Frederik does for a living. I don't.) This leaves our map in
disarray, and it's easy for someone to want to throw up his hands and
rip out big stretches of it.

I'm sure that I'm guilty both ways. I've no doubt field-mapped stuff
very badly when I was learning, and I've no doubt missed going back to
fix things. (I at least hope that I've left matters better than I've
found them!) I've also been guilty, most likely, of damaging the
community - by importing. I still do it - but in my defense, all of my
imports are nearly poster children for "data not feasible for amateur
mappers to survey in the field." (Frederik has argued stongly to me
that this is a synonym for "data that mappers care too little about to
deserve inclusion in OSM." I remain unconvinced.)

I do try to tidy up after myself when people leave notes or changelog
comments! I don't believe that I've ever had a change, no matter how
large, reverted wholesale.

I do see that some of the Austin sidewalk data appear to be of pretty
questionable quality. I don't know to what extent the project has
mapped elsewhere, or how far the problem extends. Has anyone tried to
reach out to the mappers in question? Or - presuming that this was a
student group - tried to find their faculty advisor?  Does the web
site give contact information for a project leader? Are members of the
DWG other than Frederik aware of the issue?

Reverting the changes should surely be the last resort, not the first,
and glibly tossing off, "at least they've labeled everything with the
project, so we can delete it when they fail," is no way to recruit
mappers! (Recruiting mappers should probably be American mappers'
highest priority - we have so few!) On the occasions where the mappers
and leadership are unreachable, it always should have the tone,
"unfortunately, the original mapper in not answering communications,
and there is a lack of resources to field-map the questionable
features, so reversion seems to be unavoidable." The glib dismissal is
particularly unseemly when it can be misinterpreted as an official
pronouncement of the DWG, of which Frederik is a member.

Compounding the problem by nationalistic labelling of this as "yet
another German attempt to bully US mappers" serves nobody. Yes, I know
that Americans and Germans do engage in Kulturkampf over OSM
management. I'm frustrated by both the US "we'll fix it later"
attitude, by some statements from the other side of the Atlantic that
seem to say, "our model is fine; if you have cases that don't fit, fix
your country!" But always keep examining cultural assumptions. We come
from places that have different needs. Sometimes we Americans are
horribly slipshod simply because we can't manage better. Sometimes the
Europeans are horribly meticulous because they are trying to address
problems that are entirely beyond what we Americans can dream of
reaching. (Wheelchair routing? I'm still trying to get rural roads to
within a few hundred metres of their actual locations, and get
government and community facilities on the map in the first place. You
have to crawl before you can run.)

Let's get the data - and more important, the process - fixed, rather
than falling to fighting among ourselves. Fix the immediate problem.
Educate the mappers. Keep exhorting Americans to improve their mapping
standard. Keep cautioning Europeans not to expect too much - we have a
big country and too few people to map it. And keep trying to map the
world!

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Re: [Talk-us] Senseless Germans, again.

[Kevin Kenny]

Please, let's tone down the rhetoric here - both of you!

Frederik has a long and distinguished history with OSM. He cares about
the map passionately. He wants very much to see things done right.
Alas, that tends to mean that he forgets at times what it means to be
a novice, and expects perfection in mapping from the beginning. He
works in a part of the world that has a vibrant map community, with
experienced locals almost everywhere to guide the way, which means
that he actually gets near-perfection from the novices - because there
is a generous supply of experienced mentors. For that reason, the
Europeans, and the Germans in particular, seem to have trouble
grasping the specific problems that we Americans face - land that is
incomprehensibly vast to many from Europe, and far too few mappers to
cover it.

On the other hand, we Americans inhabit a culture of ad-hoc expedients
and sloppiness - and pay for it in the map, with broken routing,
broken rendering, and so on. We get in data that are 'just barely good
enough' - and tend to abandon them to degrade into 'not even good
enough' as the next urgent project beckons, of places where there are
no usable data at all. Or go off to our other communities - after all,
we all have lives beyond the map. (I understand that mapping is also
what Frederik does for a living. I don't.) This leaves our map in
disarray, and it's easy for someone to want to throw up his hands and
rip out big stretches of it.

I'm sure that I'm guilty both ways. I've no doubt field-mapped stuff
very badly when I was learning, and I've no doubt missed going back to
fix things. (I at least hope that I've left matters better than I've
found them!) I've also been guilty, most likely, of damaging the
community - by importing. I still do it - but in my defense, all of my
imports are nearly poster children for "data not feasible for amateur
mappers to survey in the field." (Frederik has argued stongly to me
that this is a synonym for "data that mappers care too little about to
deserve inclusion in OSM." I remain unconvinced.)

I do try to tidy up after myself when people leave notes or changelog
comments! I don't believe that I've ever had a change, no matter how
large, reverted wholesale.

I do see that some of the Austin sidewalk data appear to be of pretty
questionable quality. I don't know to what extent the project has
mapped elsewhere, or how far the problem extends. Has anyone tried to
reach out to the mappers in question? Or - presuming that this was a
student group - tried to find their faculty advisor?  Does the web
site give contact information for a project leader? Are members of the
DWG other than Frederik aware of the issue?

Reverting the changes should surely be the last resort, not the first,
and glibly tossing off, "at least they've labeled everything with the
project, so we can delete it when they fail," is no way to recruit
mappers! (Recruiting mappers should probably be American mappers'
highest priority - we have so few!) On the occasions where the mappers
and leadership are unreachable, it always should have the tone,
"unfortunately, the original mapper in not answering communications,
and there is a lack of resources to field-map the questionable
features, so reversion seems to be unavoidable." The glib dismissal is
particularly unseemly when it can be misinterpreted as an official
pronouncement of the DWG, of which Frederik is a member.

Compounding the problem by nationalistic labelling of this as "yet
another German attempt to bully US mappers" serves nobody. Yes, I know
that Americans and Germans do engage in Kulturkampf over OSM
management. I'm frustrated by both the US "we'll fix it later"
attitude, by some statements from the other side of the Atlantic that
seem to say, "our model is fine; if you have cases that don't fit, fix
your country!" But always keep examining cultural assumptions. We come
from places that have different needs. Sometimes we Americans are
horribly slipshod simply because we can't manage better. Sometimes the
Europeans are horribly meticulous because they are trying to address
problems that are entirely beyond what we Americans can dream of
reaching. (Wheelchair routing? I'm still trying to get rural roads to
within a few hundred metres of their actual locations, and get
government and community facilities on the map in the first place. You
have to crawl before you can run.)

Let's get the data - and more important, the process - fixed, rather
than falling to fighting among ourselves. Fix the immediate problem.
Educate the mappers. Keep exhorting Americans to improve their mapping
standard. Keep cautioning Europeans not to expect too much - we have a
big country and too few people to map it. And keep trying to map the
world!

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Re: [OSM-talk] the new icon for the Tag:amenity=bureau_de_change

[Colin Smale]

On 2018-07-25 16:05, Daniel Koć wrote:

> We have the same problem with hospital symbol. There's even an official
> generic symbol that we could use, called "red crystal" (see
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Red_Cross_and_Red_Crescent_Movement#The_Red_Crystal
> ) and I like it very much, but we still use red cross, because I think
> nobody would recognize it.

The Red Crystal symbol is protected by the ICRC. We can't use it, nor
can we use the Red Cross or Red Crescent. There have been numerous legal
cases which came down to the fact that these symbols are protected by
international law. Even historical representations (vintage ambulances,
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Re: [OSM-talk] the new icon for the Tag:amenity=bureau_de_change

[oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch]

OK. Thank you. After the hospital icon example, I see the point.Best regards,O.Sent from my Huawei Mobile___
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Re: [OSM-talk] the new icon for the Tag:amenity=bureau_de_change

[Daniel Koć]

W dniu 25.07.2018 o 15:34, oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch pisze:

> There are 180 currencies recognized as legal tender in the world [1].
> I have nothing against USD and EUR, but why not to use a
> straightforward comprehensible generic icon, which covers all existing
> and future circulating currencies?

Too generic symbols are just not clear. Some examples as a symbol ("pars
pro toto") can be better instead and is used in multiple cases (look for
example at fast food or playground icons).

We have the same problem with hospital symbol. There's even an official
generic symbol that we could use, called "red crystal" (see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Red_Cross_and_Red_Crescent_Movement#The_Red_Crystal
) and I like it very much, but we still use red cross, because I think
nobody would recognize it.

I invite you to discuss this issue here:

https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/3185

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[Talk-us] Sidewalks in Austin without any tags

[Andy Townsend]

On 25/07/2018 14:12, Bryan Housel wrote:

...

Find more productive ways to improve OSM than threatening to delete people’s 
work.


(ahem)

Hi Bryan,

What I'd normally suggest in a situation like this is that someone 
comment on some of the problem changesets and offer help and 
assistance.  However, it looks like people have tried to do that, at 
least a couple of months ago:


http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/osm-discussion-comments?uid=3773201

but a reply hasn't come back yet.  That might mean that their email is 
misconfigured, or the account has been abandoned, or they're just too 
busy to respond.  There's no biographical info on the account in OSM to 
suggest any other ways of getting in touch, though the name might 
perhaps suggest to a casual observer that it's somehow connected to the 
University of Washington.  You've previously mentioned 
https://www.opensidewalks.com/ but that is unfortunatly quite low on 
meaningful content, and seems to mostly talk about an existing OSM 
proposal and the previous Seattle import attempt 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Seattle,_Washington/Sidewalk_Import 
(where thankfully actually mapping was done instead).


Do you (or does anyone else on this list) have a direct connection to 
the TaskarCenterAtUW account?  If so it'd be great to let them know that 
people have been trying to get in touch with them, and to get some 
information about the plans to add meaningful tags to the data that's 
been added already).  Obviously in-OSM contact methods exist but if 
someone reading this actually knows them they'd understand the context 
better.


Unfortunately just "more data" is not necessarily an improvement - 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/603909001 is an example of something 
that as it currently stands really does add no value. However it's clear 
that the user who added that was aware that there was more to be done - 
they wrote "Will use JOSM to put in the appropriate tags".  It'd be good 
to know if or when they plan to do that, or whether some other approach 
(Maproulette?) might be approriate if they're no longer able to do so 
and need other people to tidy up after them.


Best Regards,

Andy




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Re: [Talk-us] Senseless Germans, again.

[Bryan Housel]

> Let's concentrate on the concerns Frederik raised and discuss them based
> on their own merit.


I’m focused on this part of the email.  This is not an ok way to talk about 
teams of mappers working in the US:
It’s obviously a work in progress. He can’t just threaten to “delete them all 
once the project has run out…”


> On Jul 25, 2018, at 2:32 AM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:
> 
> And they
> don't even look good on the map. I really wonder what the purpose of
> this is. At least they're all tagged with "project=OpenSidewalks" which
> makes it easier to delete them once the project has run out...
> 
> Bye
> Frederik

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[OSM-talk] the new icon for the Tag:amenity=bureau_de_change

[oleksiy.muzal...@bluewin.ch]

As far as I understood the new icon for the amenity=bureau_de_change tag will 
be the one seen on this page:
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/3301
It is an icon with the symbols of the US dollar and Euro.
(there is still no icon at the wiki page:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dbureau_de_change )
I suggest instead of an icon with the symbols of the US dollar and the Euro to 
use a generic icon. For example, similar to this one:
https://thenounproject.com/term/currency-exchange/29456/
There are 180 currencies recognized as legal tender in the world [1]. I have 
nothing against USD and EUR, but why not to use a straightforward 
comprehensible generic icon, which covers all existing and future circulating 
currencies?
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_circulating_currencies
Best regards,
Oleksiy
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Re: [Talk-se] Tillstånd beviljat att använda LMs ortofoto för HOT-projektet

[Christoffer Holmstedt]

Omstart av JOSM räckte inte för mig men om jag gick in på Imagery > Imagery
preferences och sedan klickade på "Update default entries" (blåa pilar i
nedre högra hörnet över kartan) så fick jag fram "nya" ortofoto.

Den 25 juli 2018 13:15 skrev Karl Wettin :

> Lantmäteriet har beviljat OpenStreetMap att använda sig av deras ortofoto
> (i stället för Bing) inom ramen för det HOT-projekt som nu hjälper den
> polska räddningstjänsten.
>
> Tillståndet har getts till mig muntligen via telefon i en bil av LM efter
> deras dagliga möte med Länsstyrelsen och MSB i Jämtland. Vi kommer få
> skriftligt senare och jag kommer posta det, men innan dess är det är bara
> att tuta och köra enligt LM.
>
> Startar ni om JOSM eller laddar om bildkällor kommer det dyka upp en ny
> källa som heter "Lantmäteriet Ortofoto". Byt till den!
>
> Osäker på om det även fungerar i ID nu. Berätta gärna om det gör det. Jag
> är på cykelsemester och har bara en notebook från 2005 med mig, den klarar
> inte av ID.
>
>
> kalle
>
> ___
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>
>


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Re: [Talk-us] Senseless Germans, again.

[Bryan Housel]

You have a reputation for bullying local contributors and impeding work made by 
local teams trying to improve the map around them. 

I’m telling you Frederik - knock it off.

Find more productive ways to improve OSM than threatening to delete people’s 
work.



> On Jul 25, 2018, at 7:11 AM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> On 25.07.2018 12:33, Bryan Housel wrote:
>> Do you live in Austin, TX?
>> If not, why do you care whether the students want to map sidewalks there?
> 
> What does this have to do with my nationality?
> 
> Bye
> Frederik
> 
> -- 
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
> 
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[OSM-talk] OSM Awards 2018 — The voting is closing soon!

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi,

This year we are for the third time honouring people and organisations in 
OpenStreetMap that made great contributions to the map, the ecosystem and the 
community. OSM Awards is all about showing active members of the community that 
their work is seen and respected. All you have to do is to click some 
checkboxes against their names and titles. Please do that now:

http://awards.osmz.ru/

You can mark as many nominees as you like, even all of them. The voting ends in 
on Friday, so please do not postpone visiting the website — spend a minute 
right now.

Thanks,
Ilya
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Re: [Talk-it] Mappa di Spotorno - mancata attribuzione

[Andrea Musuruane]

Il mer 25 lug 2018, 13:48 Martin Koppenhoefer  ha
scritto:

> Comunque, la "Strada di Circonvallazione" non era mai scritto con una "l"
> in OSM, ho verificato tutti i pezzi vicino al centro, e si chiamava Via
> Aurelia prima. https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/38691004/history
> Per me i label hanno messi a mano, al meno alcuni.
>

Sì, le etichette delle strade (non tutte) le hanno messe a mano, perché
all'epoca ce n'erano diverse errate in OSM.

Nonostante questo, la mappa è un'opera derivata da OSM tramite il rendering
della OpenCycleMap e, in quanto tale, doveva essere correttamente
attribuita.

Ciao,

Andrea
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Re: [Talk-it] Mappa di Spotorno - mancata attribuzione

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

Comunque, la "Strada di Circonvallazione" non era mai scritto con una "l"
in OSM, ho verificato tutti i pezzi vicino al centro, e si chiamava Via
Aurelia prima. https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/38691004/history
Per me i label hanno messi a mano, al meno alcuni.


CIao,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-it] Mappa di Spotorno - mancata attribuzione

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2018-07-25 11:38 GMT+02:00 Stefano Droghetti :

>
>
> Il 24/07/2018 14:59, Andrea Musuruane ha scritto:
>
>> Ciao,
>> Ho trovato una mappa di Spotorno all'ufficio del turismo che è
>> palesemente copiata dalla OpenCycleMap e non è presente alcuna attribuzione.
>>
>> Un particolare:
>> https://postimg.cc/image/q1snnvssd/
>>
>>
>> ROTFL! C'è persino "Circonvalazione" con una sola elle! :-o
> (a quanto vedo adesso su OSM è correttamente segnato "Strada di
> circonvallazione")
>




ma siete sicuri che si tratta di OSM? Gli edifici forse no? Questo per
esempio sulla loro mappa sono due: https://www.openstreetmap.org/
way/186406853
Anche altri edifici non sono del tutto uguali.
I label invece probabilmente li hanno messi a mano, cosa spiegerebbe i
rifusi.

Ciao,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-it] Mappa di Spotorno - mancata attribuzione

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2018-07-25 13:18 GMT+02:00 Andrea Musuruane :

> La mappa è quella di OSM prima del luglio 2017. Ne sono sicuro perché sono
> presenti alcuni errori che poi ho corretto io: posizione strade errate,
> sensi unici errati, ecc.
>



ok, grazie, scusate visto solo ora, scartate il mio ultimo messaggio. E'
normale che le mappe da fonti differenti si assomigliano comunque, però se
sei sicuro. Chi conosce bene la zona può capire facilmente se i dati
derivassero da OSM o meno

Ciao,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-it] Mappa di Spotorno - mancata attribuzione

[Andrea Musuruane]

Il mer 25 lug 2018, 12:26 Martin Koppenhoefer  ha
scritto:

>
> ma siete sicuri che si tratta di OSM? Gli edifici forse no? Questo per
> esempio sulla loro mappa sono due:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/186406853
> Anche altri edifici non sono del tutto uguali.
> I label invece probabilmente li hanno messi a mano, cosa spiegherebbe i
> rifusi.
>
> Potrebbero anche avere mischiato dati da più fonti. Ammetto che
> l'assomilianza è forte...
>

Martin, non pensi quadrimensionalmente!

La mappa è quella di OSM prima del luglio 2017. Ne sono sicuro perché sono
presenti alcuni errori che poi ho corretto io: posizione strade errate,
sensi unici errati, ecc.

Ciao,

Andrea
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[Talk-se] Tillstånd beviljat att använda LMs ortofoto för HOT-projektet

[Karl Wettin]

Lantmäteriet har beviljat OpenStreetMap att använda sig av deras ortofoto
(i stället för Bing) inom ramen för det HOT-projekt som nu hjälper den
polska räddningstjänsten.

Tillståndet har getts till mig muntligen via telefon i en bil av LM efter
deras dagliga möte med Länsstyrelsen och MSB i Jämtland. Vi kommer få
skriftligt senare och jag kommer posta det, men innan dess är det är bara
att tuta och köra enligt LM.

Startar ni om JOSM eller laddar om bildkällor kommer det dyka upp en ny
källa som heter "Lantmäteriet Ortofoto". Byt till den!

Osäker på om det även fungerar i ID nu. Berätta gärna om det gör det. Jag
är på cykelsemester och har bara en notebook från 2005 med mig, den klarar
inte av ID.


kalle
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Re: [Talk-us] Senseless Germans, again.

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 25.07.2018 12:33, Bryan Housel wrote:
> Do you live in Austin, TX?
> If not, why do you care whether the students want to map sidewalks there?

What does this have to do with my nationality?

Bye
Frederik

-- 
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Osmose et validateur JSOM

[mga_geo]

Merci Marc, je n'avais pas essayé le "E".
Le temps de traitement semble aléatoire, par exemple pour le node
1596702382, j'ai une erreur
http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/fr/error/16674624680 alors que la modif date
du 15 juillet 2018
http://osm.virtuelle-loipe.de/history/?type=node=1596702382

Malgré ses petits désagréments Osmose reste un super outil !

Marc



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Re: [Talk-us] Senseless Germans, again.

[Bryan Housel]

Do you live in Austin, TX?
If not, why do you care whether the students want to map sidewalks there?

Since you seem confused about “what the purpose of this is”, and can’t even be 
bothered to look up any of the “long-ish discussions”,  I’ve done a Google 
search for you to find this:  https://www.opensidewalks.com/ 


Threatening to delete all the work from the OpenSidewalks project just because 
you found one poorly mapped thing is not very nice.  Hope you’ll reconsider.  

Thanks, Bryan



> On Jul 25, 2018, at 2:32 AM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> we had a long-ish discussion here (or was it over at imports?) about
> adding sidewalks, especially related to a project called "OpenSidewalks"
> which boldly announced a massive attempt at doing so.
> 
> I recently stumbled across this changeset in Austin, TX:
> 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/603909001
> 
> In it, an untagged line was added 24 days ago, with a vague promise of
> using JOSM later to add relevant tags, which hasn't happened yet.
> 
> What's more, there are some erratic sideways in the same area,
> un-connected to the road network and un-connected to each other, see e.g.
> 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?editor=id=603909004#map=21/30.28318/-97.74670
> 
> and as such hardly usable for anything like pedestrian routing. And they
> don't even look good on the map. I really wonder what the purpose of
> this is. At least they're all tagged with "project=OpenSidewalks" which
> makes it easier to delete them once the project has run out...
> 
> Bye
> Frederik
> 
> -- 
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
> 
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Re: [Talk-it] Mappa di Spotorno - mancata attribuzione

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2018-07-25 11:38 GMT+02:00 Stefano Droghetti :

>
>
> Il 24/07/2018 14:59, Andrea Musuruane ha scritto:
>
>> Ciao,
>> Ho trovato una mappa di Spotorno all'ufficio del turismo che è
>> palesemente copiata dalla OpenCycleMap e non è presente alcuna attribuzione.
>>
>> Un particolare:
>> https://postimg.cc/image/q1snnvssd/
>>
>>
>> ROTFL! C'è persino "Circonvalazione" con una sola elle! :-o
> (a quanto vedo adesso su OSM è correttamente segnato "Strada di
> circonvallazione")
>




ma siete sicuri che si tratta di OSM? Gli edifici forse no? Questo per
esempio sulla loro mappa sono due:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/186406853
Anche altri edifici non sono del tutto uguali.
I label invece probabilmente li hanno messi a mano, cosa spiegherebbe i
rifusi.

Potrebbero anche avere mischiato dati da più fonti. Ammetto che
l'assomilianza è forte...

Ciao,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-it] Mappa di Spotorno - mancata attribuzione

[liste DOT girarsi AT posteo DOT eu]

On 25/07/18 12:19, Davide Mangraviti wrote:

Si ne sono a conoscenza da tempo. Sono il mapper della zona e ho mappato e
tengo aggiornati tutti i sentieri di quella zona.
Tralatro avevo realizzato per quel comune un lavoro di pannelli per un
itinerario e le cartine erano già belle che pronte.

http://www.ilgolfodellisola.it/alta-via-golfo-dellisola/

Piuttosto che usare quelle, ne hanno dovute farne una nuova di sana pianta
copiando sotto la OCM.
Lo feci notare alla operatrice dell'ufficio, che disse si si riferisco...
Si...aspetta e spera...
Tempo perso



Un paio di queste mappe le ho viste su un paio di blog del sito 
http://www.spotornohotels.it/, correttamente attribuite.



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Re: [Talk-it] Mappa di Spotorno - mancata attribuzione

[Davide Mangraviti]

Si ne sono a conoscenza da tempo. Sono il mapper della zona e ho mappato e
tengo aggiornati tutti i sentieri di quella zona.
Tralatro avevo realizzato per quel comune un lavoro di pannelli per un
itinerario e le cartine erano già belle che pronte.

http://www.ilgolfodellisola.it/alta-via-golfo-dellisola/

Piuttosto che usare quelle, ne hanno dovute farne una nuova di sana pianta
copiando sotto la OCM.
Lo feci notare alla operatrice dell'ufficio, che disse si si riferisco...
Si...aspetta e spera...
Tempo perso





Andrea Musuruane wrote
> Ciao,
> Ho trovato una mappa di Spotorno all'ufficio del turismo che è
> palesemente copiata dalla OpenCycleMap e non è presente alcuna
> attribuzione.
> 
> Un particolare:
> https://postimg.cc/image/q1snnvssd/
> 
> I dati usati sono precedenti alle modifiche che ho fatto lo scorso anno.
> 
> Sembra realizzata da thefancyfactory.com per www.spotornohotels.it
> 
> Ciao,
> 
> Andrea
> 
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> Talk-it@

> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it





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Re: [Talk-it] Violazione OSM

[Alfredo Gattai]

era l'ora

On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 11:15 PM demon.box  wrote:

> non credevo che arrivassero a tanto ma invece ho potuto piacevolmente
> constatare che sulle mappe cartacee che ora sono in distribuzione hanno
> incollato una etichetta nella quale si cita anche OSM come fonte dati
> esattamente come sulla versione per smartphone!
>
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/Italy-General-f5324174.html
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Osmose et validateur JSOM

[marc marc]

Bonjour,

Le 25. 07. 18 à 02:10, mga_geo a écrit :
> Je viens de regarder les signalements sur le secteur de Saint-Malo pour les
> arrêts de bus.
> Il me semble que les modifications récentes ne sont pas prises en compte.
> Par exemple la modification du node 1596702382 faite le 15 juillet n'est pas
> prise en compte
> http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/#zoom=10=49.1201=2.363=8300=1%2C2%2C3
> arrêt Charcot

Il n'y a plus d'erreur signalé par Osmose pour cet arrêt.
Cependant, en regardant l'arrêt plus au sud,
en cliquant sur le E tu as "timestamp   2018-07-23 19:59:02"
cela te donne l'heure de l'analyse.
il faut généralement un ou 2 jours pour qu'osmose retraite toute.
sur cet arrêt au sud, je ne vois pas de modif ancienne non prise en compte.

a noter que public_transport:version n'est utile que sur les relations 
d'itinéraire. pour les arrêts, les tags présents suffisent à savoir quel 
version a été utilisée

Cordialement,
Marc
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Re: [Talk-it] Mappa di Spotorno - mancata attribuzione

[Stefano Droghetti]

Il 24/07/2018 14:59, Andrea Musuruane ha scritto:

Ciao,
    Ho trovato una mappa di Spotorno all'ufficio del turismo che è 
palesemente copiata dalla OpenCycleMap e non è presente alcuna 
attribuzione.


Un particolare:
https://postimg.cc/image/q1snnvssd/

I dati usati sono precedenti alle modifiche che ho fatto lo scorso anno.




...ahahah ho visto adesso c'è pure scritto "Kenedy"! :-o
Ma che roba è?!

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Re: [Talk-it] Mappa di Spotorno - mancata attribuzione

[Stefano Droghetti]

Il 24/07/2018 14:59, Andrea Musuruane ha scritto:

Ciao,
    Ho trovato una mappa di Spotorno all'ufficio del turismo che è 
palesemente copiata dalla OpenCycleMap e non è presente alcuna 
attribuzione.


Un particolare:
https://postimg.cc/image/q1snnvssd/



ROTFL! C'è persino "Circonvalazione" con una sola elle! :-o
(a quanto vedo adesso su OSM è correttamente segnato "Strada di 
circonvallazione")


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Mise à jour des POIs (horaires, ...)

[Cyrille37 OSM]

Salut,

Le 25/07/2018 à 03:32, osm.sanspourr...@spamgourmet.com a écrit :
Et aussi je reste perplexe que la BdD OSM porte ces données non 
géographiques.

Tu veux dire les données complémentaires ?


Je pensais aux horaires !

Les POI eux ont bien sur leur places dans OSM ;-)

Cyrille37.

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Re: [Talk-it] Mappa di Spotorno - mancata attribuzione

[Andrea Musuruane]

Perdonatemi, ma credo che qualsiasi segnalazione di tipo legale abbia
efficacia maggiore se la fa Wikimedia Italia e non il primo mapper che
passava di lì (me in questo caso).

Ciao,

Andrea


Il mer 25 lug 2018, 10:38 liste DOT girarsi AT posteo DOT eu <
liste.gira...@posteo.eu> ha scritto:

> On 24/07/18 22:56, Andrea Musuruane wrote:
> > È una mappa cartacea in distribuzione all'ufficio del turismo.
> >
> > Ciao,
> >
> > Andrea
> >
>
> Bè se vuoi mandargli una mail vedi te, poi se vuoi metti in questo
> lista-memorandum:
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lacking_proper_attribution
>
> Penso che Ale_zena appena può vede la tua segnalazione e valuterà di
> conseguenza.
>
>
> --
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>
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Re: [Talk-it] Violazione OSM

[liste DOT girarsi AT posteo DOT eu]

On 24/07/18 23:14, demon.box wrote:

non credevo che arrivassero a tanto ma invece ho potuto piacevolmente
constatare che sulle mappe cartacee che ora sono in distribuzione hanno
incollato una etichetta nella quale si cita anche OSM come fonte dati
esattamente come sulla versione per smartphone!









Meno male che qualcuno ascolta ogni tanto. :)

Bravo!



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Re: [Talk-it] Mappa di Spotorno - mancata attribuzione

[liste DOT girarsi AT posteo DOT eu]

On 24/07/18 22:56, Andrea Musuruane wrote:

È una mappa cartacea in distribuzione all'ufficio del turismo.

Ciao,

Andrea



Bè se vuoi mandargli una mail vedi te, poi se vuoi metti in questo 
lista-memorandum:


https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lacking_proper_attribution

Penso che Ale_zena appena può vede la tua segnalazione e valuterà di 
conseguenza.



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Re: [Talk-it] Mappa di Spotorno - mancata attribuzione

[Luca Delucchi]

Il mer 25 lug 2018, 10:11 Martin Koppenhoefer  ha
scritto:

> forse conviene far fare un paio di timbri con l’attribuzione, così li
> mandiamo in giro che possono timbrare le loro opere e rimandarci poi in
> dietro in timbri quando hanno finito ;-)
>

Non è una cazzata... Wikimedia Italia potrebbe farne un paio, non penso
costeranno migliaia di euro


>
> Ciao, Martin
>

Ciao
Luca

>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Osmose et validateur JSOM

[deuzeffe]

Le 25/07/2018 à 02:10, mga_geo a écrit :

Bonjour à tous,


Bonjour,


Je viens de regarder les signalements sur le secteur de Saint-Malo pour les
arrêts de bus.
Il me semble que les modifications récentes ne sont pas prises en compte.


Il me semble qu'il faut « un certain temps » au parseur osmose pour être 
à jour.



Par exemple la modification du node 1596702382 faite le 15 juillet n'est pas
prise en compte
http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/fr/map/#zoom=10=49.1201=2.363=8300=1%2C2%2C3
arrêt Charcot


Dans l'info. bulle de l'erreur en question, clique sur « corrigé » pour 
mettre la base à jour. Et c'est bon :)


#HTH

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Re: [Talk-it] Mappa di Spotorno - mancata attribuzione

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

forse conviene far fare un paio di timbri con l’attribuzione, così li mandiamo 
in giro che possono timbrare le loro opere e rimandarci poi in dietro in timbri 
quando hanno finito ;-)


Ciao, Martin 

sent from a phone

> On 24. Jul 2018, at 22:56, Andrea Musuruane  wrote:
> 
> È una mappa cartacea in distribuzione all'ufficio del turismo

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Tagger voie bus/vélo/taxis uniquement?

[Antoine Riche]

Le 25/07/2018 à 07:30, Axelos a écrit :

Merci pour cette remarque pertinente. Je suis déjà tombé plusieurs fois
sur ce type de cas et j'ai bien utilisé cycleway:left=share_busway comme
indiqué sur la page bicycle.

À noter le "pas de consensus", donc ouvert aux propositions.
L'absence de consensus semble être sur le tag busway plutôt que sur 
cycleway. Étonnant car la page https://wiki.osm.org/wiki/Key:busway est 
plutôt explicite sur l'utilisation de busway=opposite_lane. Un arbitrage 
à reporter sur la page Bicycle ?


Reste que cycleway=opposite_shared_busway n'est pas mentionné sur 
Bicycle (ni EN ni FR) alors que 
https://wiki.osm.org/wiki/Tag:cycleway%3Dshare_busway décrit ce tag 
explicitement. Cette page a été créée en 2014, et je ne trouve pas de 
discussion à ce sujet sur la liste Tagging 
(http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page=5167127=opposite_share_busway). 
Une initiative isolée ?


Antoine.


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Mission sur les données géographiques souveraines...

[Dominique Rousseau]

Le Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 10:52:30PM +, marc marc [marc_marc_...@hotmail.com] 
a écrit:
> Le 24. 07. 18 à 18:22, Christian Quest a écrit :
> > On ne peut pas comparer la LO et l'ODbL, la première est une CC-by qui 
> > ne dit pas vraiment son nom et n'est qu'une forme lisible de... la Loi
> > 
> > Ce n'est pas par chauvinisme, mais à cause de contraintes de droit.
> 
> je ne suis pas sur de comprendre.
> qu'est-ce qui empêchait de législateur d'utiliser une licence existante 
> au lieu d'en créer une nouvelle décrite comme compatible avec plusieurs 
> licences existantes ?
> il y a vraiment qlq chose de différent dans les licences crées, 
> totalement indispensable mais en même temps totalement compatible avec 
> les autres licences qui ne conviennent pas ?

Notamment, elles sont rédigées nativement en français.


-- 
Dominique Rousseau
d...@lee-loo.net - 06 82 43 12 27

A l'instant où l'esclave décide qu'il ne sera plus esclave,
ses chaînes tombent.  -- Mahatma Gandhi

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[Talk-us] Senseless Sidewalks, again.

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

we had a long-ish discussion here (or was it over at imports?) about
adding sidewalks, especially related to a project called "OpenSidewalks"
which boldly announced a massive attempt at doing so.

I recently stumbled across this changeset in Austin, TX:

 https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/603909001

In it, an untagged line was added 24 days ago, with a vague promise of
using JOSM later to add relevant tags, which hasn't happened yet.

What's more, there are some erratic sideways in the same area,
un-connected to the road network and un-connected to each other, see e.g.

https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?editor=id=603909004#map=21/30.28318/-97.74670

and as such hardly usable for anything like pedestrian routing. And they
don't even look good on the map. I really wonder what the purpose of
this is. At least they're all tagged with "project=OpenSidewalks" which
makes it easier to delete them once the project has run out...

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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