the services as relations, so you can put together something more akin to
the operator's maps, at a higher zoom.
Richard
On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 10:30 AM, Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.comwrote:
On 22 Jun 2009, at 07:51, Jochen Topf wrote:
On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 05:09:35PM +0100, Richard
:
On 22 Jun 2009, at 12:53, Richard Mann wrote:
On Roger's point about sidings - I'd map those as a separate track group,
since they are the sorts of things people would expect to disappear at lower
zooms. So north of Oxford station, I'd have the 4 down carriage sidings as
one group
Choosing not to render a point because there's something else more important
close by is relatively easy. Aggregating adjacent lines is much (much)
harder. Identifying the number of lines that are adjacent is much
(much) easier for the tagger than for the renderer.
But I seem to be repeating
because of this rendering issue), so maybe we should
accept it's not a good idea for rail either.
Richard
On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 9:27 AM, Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.comwrote:
On 25 Jun 2009, at 23:57, Richard Mann wrote:
Rendering isn't generally that complicated. The renderer usually
On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 1:12 AM, Cartinus carti...@xs4all.nl wrote:
IMHO the solution is simple. Name it after what you are mapping.
For vehicles:
The route the cyclist follows is route=bicycle.
The route bus 5 follows is route=bus.
The route tram 13 follows is route=tram.
The route the
Some information lies better on the infrastructure, so for some purposes you
want both. I've concluded that infrastructure relations are probably the
best way to mark whether route sections are predominantly 1-track, 2-track,
4-track etc. I don't think we've identified much of a need for
There's a clear definition - a coach has it's wheels attached to an
underframe distinct from the bodywork. That's why they're higher and have a
more-comfortable ride.
However there's an overlap caused by the 50km rule. I would surmise that the
same threshold is used to require free access by
Yes Frederik could tidy things up, but it's best not to change things
arbitrarily (ie substituting line for route), because it just makes it
harder to remember what is correct. The lack of presets for relations in
Potlatch makes it doubly useful to minimise the complexity.
Richard
changes first though).
I hope you don’t mind me deleting it.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/193015
Ed
*From:* talk-transit-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:
talk-transit-boun...@openstreetmap.org] *On Behalf Of *Richard Mann
*Sent:* 10 August 2009 01:54
*To:* osm
1) Would it make sense to seek permision from TfL to derive labelling
information from their website maps. It's such a rich source of info, it'd
be a pity not to try. They're a bit daft putting copyright on their spider
diagrams - if I were them, I'd want them to be copied.
2) I don't like the
is on the NR website if you know where to look - and have
permission to use it.
And the fact that it may not _yet_ render is - ahem - not relevant.
Richard
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 4:42 PM, Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.comwrote:
On 2 Sep 2009, at 16:27, Richard Mann wrote:
2) I don't
UK railway term for the three letter code (eg EUS for Euston) is (wait for
it): tlc
(most railway locations also have a 5-digit stanox, a 4-digit national
location code (nlc), a tiploc and several more, but for stations, the tlc is
the nearest to a meaningful short code)
I'd suggest something
On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 12:13 PM, Peter Miller peter.mil...@itoworld.comwrote:
Can I suggest we define some terms.
A Line is all the journeys made using a particular reference (4, X13,
Citi1 etc). Most people actually use the Route relation for this. This
should include all the ways that
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 7:09 AM, Mark Williams
mark@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
Gregory wrote:
It only appears to go to Zoom 13 though - not quite big enough to read
the print, without getting out of my chair...
It goes all the way to z18, but just gives you a blank if you go
somewhere it's
Sometimes there are obscure codes on bus stops (eg in Oxford), so that
humans can text them to a Real Time Passenger Info service (called
OxonTime here). Eg the ref tag on this node:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/533877725
For which you can get a departures list:
On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Roger Slevin ro...@slevin.plus.com wrote:
And whilst Peter Stoner is correct that Oxford is unusual in having two
different next departure services (they do not supply their real time
information to the national service, so this is only available to the local
IMHO route_ref is just a placeholder until you make the stops members
of the route relations, so don't worry about it
Richard
On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Hillsman, Edward hills...@cutr.usf.edu wrote:
As I mentioned in an earlier post, we have two public transit systems
operating in the
Bus stops should be nodes offset slightly from the way (not nodes on the way).
How relations are handled is partly a problem with the editors.
Potlatch 1.4 users (who can't readily order relation members, and who
find it a pain having an excess of relations on a way), tend to do
2-way relations,
The early ones in the UK (in London) were known as countdown, and
that's kinda stuck as a generic name, but I've no idea if anyone's
used that as a tag.
Richard
On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 9:39 PM, Jo winfi...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
I didn't find a tag to use for synoptic displays indicating when
Why do routers need a node on the street? Next you'll be wanting me to
put a node on the street outside every house so you can route to a
house. This is a problem that should be solved by the router, not in
the data.
Richard
___
Talk-transit mailing
On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 5:29 AM, Dominik Mahrer (Teddy) te...@teddy.ch wrote:
On 12/10/2010 01:45 AM, Richard Mann wrote:
highway=bus_stop on a node next to a road
railway=tram_stop on a node on railway=tram
railway=platform on a node or way or area next to the tram tracks
This is how you
On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 11:11 AM, Michał Borsuk michal.bor...@gmail.com wrote:
On 12/10/2010 11:20 AM, Richard Mann wrote:
I think
the biggest uncertainty is how you handle loops at the end of a route
- do you have overlapping single-direction relations, pick an
abritrary position to change
On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 3:31 PM, Dominik Mahrer (Teddy) te...@teddy.ch wrote:
Think of a terminal bus station somewhere in the center of a city. Four bus
lines end here. One platform of 50m. The four lines stop always at the same
position (line 1 is first,..., line 4 is last). Only one pole for
On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 9:12 PM, Dominik Mahrer (Teddy) te...@teddy.ch wrote:
Especially see the German talk page. I would like to approve a tagging
schema that is clearly defined. Doing this with new tags is portably the
easiest way. Redefining highway=bus_stop on or beside the way seams to be
On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 8:54 AM, Dominik Mahrer (Teddy) te...@teddy.ch wrote:
You both are right, old is the wrong word for what I wanted to say. I do
not want to replace or deprecate highway=bus_stop. Because English is not my
first language, I catched up to consult my dictionary and I think
I think I may have figured out what it is that the established tags can't do.
If you've got a railway=tram with a series of nice neat (and
well-established) railway=tram_stop nodes then you can only make that
railway=tram_stop node a member of a route relation once. The oxomoa
conclusion was to
Top tip:
Tell people how you are feeling, not what you think of them.
If you tell someone they are a then their reaction will be
hostile; if you tell someone that you're finding the proposal a bit
too complicated to understand / fit in with existing practice, then
they're a bit more
On Fri, Dec 17, 2010 at 8:32 AM, Dominik Mahrer (Teddy) te...@teddy.ch wrote:
How would you
handle existing routes, only containing the stop_positions
(railway=tram_stop)? Removing stop positions and adding the platform/pole?
Leave them as they are. Or add platforms or highway=tram_stop nodes
On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 9:09 PM, Dominik Mahrer (Teddy) te...@teddy.ch wrote:
Other mappers want to map a stop_position. At the moment they abuse
highway=bus_stop as stop_position.
What do you suggest these mappers to use for as stop_position?
If someone maps a single node on the way and
On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 6:43 AM, Dominik Mahrer (Teddy) te...@teddy.ch wrote:
On 12/29/2010 12:30 AM, Richard Mann wrote:
If someone maps a single node on the way and calls it
highway=bus_stop, then that should be OK (but not recommended).
unified_stoparea recommends that. You would allow
1) We need to see a proposal that is explicitly scalable. No more than
one page to describe how to map a basic bus or tram line in a way that
is consistent with existing usage (ie if you look around you will see
lots of examples to reinforce your understanding).
2) There is no clear case for a
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 12:21 PM, Ed Loach e...@loach.me.uk wrote:
Unified_stoparea is flawed in that it isn't backwards compatible as it
contradicts the documentation for highway=bus_stop (node beside way) to use
it for the stopping position (rather than the platform). This is why the
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 2:50 PM, ant antof...@gmail.com wrote:
Ok, nobody is forced into a complicated tagging scheme. Anybody who is
uncomfortable with relations, advanced editors or whatever should just put a
node to each bus stop. That's fine. Another mapper will come and turn it
into a
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 4:07 PM, ant antof...@gmail.com wrote:
So the point of stop area relations is to prepare the data to be interpreted
as
a network and thus to make routing... easy.
Stop areas are about linking the stop (notionally on the footway) to
the road. Or they are about linking
On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 12:27 PM, Richard Fairhurst
rich...@systemed.net wrote:
Hello all,
I note with some alarm the very complex, relation-heavy proposal for mapping
simple public transport objects.
We don't appear to have got beyond the is this really necessary question yet.
At the moment
On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 11:46 AM, ant antof...@gmail.com wrote:
Example: If a housenumber is located exactly on the corner of two
streets (and no street name attached to it), an algorithm could only guess
which street it belongs to. Probably similar ambiguities are possible for
bus stops as
On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Dominik Mahrer (Teddy) te...@teddy.ch wrote:
- stop_area is not needed/too complicated:
According to taginfo there are already 64'500 stop area relations in the OSM
database (10'500 public transport/oxomoa, 1'500 stop place, 51'500 unified
stoparea).
I think
On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 11:40 AM, Christian christ...@balticfinance.com wrote:
but it also includes people ... who would like to map also
physical path a bus takes on the street.
I think there's a logic in encouraging the use of ordered relations to
show the paths of bus/etc routes - because
See http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/533877725 for a not
untypical NaPTAN bus stop
ref is on a plate on the stop (and is the numerical equivalent of the
Naptan Code)
local_ref is on a plate on the stop, and is used to tell adjacent stops apart
My guess is that there are various coding
On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 10:38 PM, Richard Mann
richard.mann.westoxf...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Dominik Mahrer (Teddy) te...@teddy.ch
wrote:
- stop_area is not needed/too complicated:
According to taginfo there are already 64'500 stop area relations in the OSM
On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 9:06 PM, Michael von Glasow
mich...@vonglasow.com wrote:
Following the call for a better proposal, Tiziano, Oscar and I have drafted
up a simple proposal. It is based on how we have mapped the public transport
networks in our cities (Padova, Ferrara and Milan), with some
Potlatch 2 includes a display of the ways/nodes in order, and you can
move them about, but it doesn't currently tell you anything about the
member, except the id and the role (so it's pretty much a list of
random numbers).
I've raised a ticket requesting at least the member's name to be
On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 1:42 PM, Jo winfi...@gmail.com wrote:
Is it possible to add a way to a relation twice with Potlatch? And is
it possible to show that 1 way is part of a relation multiple times?
Yes. Oxford Bus route 9 now has a certain section of the Green Road
roundabout twice.
Richard
On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 10:37 PM, Michael von Glasow
mich...@vonglasow.com wrote:
On 02/03/2011 12:04 PM, Richard Mann wrote:
... something else (railway=tram_station) should go on
the centroid as a courtesy tag.
I would in fact tend towards using public_transport=stop_position,
as suggested
On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 12:32 AM, Michael von Glasow
mich...@vonglasow.com wrote:
if I may just comment on the relation: I would also use stop
rather than forward_stop and backward_stop for the roles since the
outward and return directions of a spoon route are somewhat hard to tell
apart.
On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 11:23 PM, Michael von Glasow
mich...@vonglasow.com wrote:
I did a lot of experimenting to get a simple, one-relation-per-direction
line to render correctly. If I remember that correctly, the stop role is
required (forward_stop, backward_stop or platform will also work).
On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 5:39 AM, Dominik Mahrer (Teddy) te...@teddy.ch wrote:
I did not play around with actual renderers, but in theory the renderer
should be able to get the diagram out of the order of the stops, regardless
of the role. If one stop is twice in the route relation it should be
This should be announced on the talk list.
Richard
On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Dominik Mahrer (Teddy) te...@teddy.ch wrote:
Hi
Voting is open for public transport proposal:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Public_Transport
Regards
Teddy
I add service=something to the relation to roughly describe what the type
of service is. The ones I use a service=city, service=country,
service=express, service=park_and_ride.
I also add a rough weekday frequency (number of buses per hour off-peak).
That way people can pick out stuff they want
On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 9:17 AM, Janko Mihelić jan...@gmail.com wrote:
I must admit I don't know much about getting renderers to work, but
summing frequencies of all bus lines on each way seems to be enough for
now. And if you draw bus routes with colours ranging from blue (rare route)
to red
UK bus stops all have codes (taken from the NaPTAN import), for example:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/533877725
If it's not displayed on the stop, any reference should be prefixed with
the source.
That stop also has a publicly-displayed code which is tagged as ref=69345648.
This is actually
Simply rendering public_transport=platform+bus=yes (if that's correct) as a
bus stop is a matter of a few lines of xml in the tag-transform (to insert
a highway=bus_stop tag in relevant nodes, which the normal rendering
processes can pick up). Though since this is functionally the same as the
tag-transform is an osmosis plugin. It happens before conversion to the
postgres database, so you can use any tags that exist in the wild
On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 8:07 PM, Jo winfi...@gmail.com wrote:
For a long time, public_transport was not transfered to the DB used for
the rendering of
and area
doesn't usually create too many problems ? Currently, either a node or an
area is created to define a railway station, isn't it ? So there is never
separate node and area in the same station. Is there something I didn't
understand ?
Zigeuner
Le Mercredi 18 décembre 2013 10h49, Richard
I added service=express to the coaches that we have locally, using a
similar model to that used for train services. As long as it's clear, it
doesn't really matter (it can always be standardised at a later date).
{Formally, coaches are quite distinctive - the wheels are attached to an
underframe
They get called a bus cage (because of the marking design) or more
officially Bus Stop Clearway (ie somewhere where you can't load/park) in
the UK.
road_markings=yes might be more appropriate
On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 4:11 PM, Jo winfi...@gmail.com wrote:
In Belgium the letters B U S are
Your processing needs to be able to cope with these situations, using the
latlon of the features, if the relationships aren't explicit. Get the
computer to do the work, not the mappers.
Richard
On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 9:53 AM, Jo winfi...@gmail.com wrote:
2015-07-01 10:00 GMT+02:00 Éric Gillet
My impression is that this mess arises because bus stops are
uni-directional and independent from the opposite direction. So we're used
to having them as separate entities to the side of the road.
Whereas tram stops are often in a single location for both directions (or
close enough), so we want
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