The reason you don't get it is because you are not listening. Nobody has said
the motorway tagging should continue through the intersection. The debate is
entirely about where the classification change takes place. There are several
instances in Arkansas where a motorway ends similarly. In
I think this is a good general rule. In the instant case, the tagging should
change at the point where the grass median ends northbound, IMO. That marks a
definite change in the physical character of the road. I believe it was tagged
like that when the carriageways were first split after the
Unless there have been significant changes since I moved away, it should be
tagged motorway between the IDL and the light at Apache/Gilcrease Extension.
Before the Gilcrease was extended west of US-75, the Tisdale should have been
tagged entirely as motorway. Adding the intersection did not
The New Sapulpa Road situation is in practice a road with a secondary name.
Just like Flagler Street in part of Miami (FL, not OK) is defined by the state
legislature as being "Natan A Rok Boulevard" (or similar, working from memory
here).
My personal opinion is that if local practice and the
To the extent that the address points are not duplicates of existing address
nodes, unconflated address nodes are a perfectly legitimate means of mapping
and do not need to be "fixed." Even if the address exists on a poly, it's still
fine as long as the node is marking something meaningful,
The tree cover issue is precisely why many states that have seasons have a
recurrent leaf-off (sometimes even in IR) imaging program.
Arkansas has their imagery, along with a raft of other open data, available on
Geostor as a WMS service that should be usable in JOSM and also as downloadable
In the US, we've always treated primary/secondary/tertiary as a way to tag
importance to the road network, while physical construction was secondary.
Motorway, of course, was and still is treated differently. Trunk has always
been stuck in the middle between people who like me and Paul want to
Yes, on more than one occasion back in the mists of time before armchair
mappers had spread the lanes and other condition tags widely I found some
pretty shitty US highways labeled as trunk, not because they are better roads,
but because they happen to be long distance through routes. US412
I guess my question is why primary isn't good enough for the primary route
between places that don't have higher grade roads connecting them? These
important mostly two lane roads are perfectly fine as primary.
In many cases primary routes happen to be divided, but in many cases they
aren't.
I think I've said this before, but I'm mostly in agreement with Paul's
position. Trunk should apply to divided, limited but not controlled access
highways. Other uses should be exceptions in the same vein as rural interstates
with a few at-grade intersections keeping their motorway status.
The problem as I understand it is less copyright violation (in the US, so long
as what you see in Google isn't ever put into the OSM database), and more
database licensing difficulty in the rest of the world where the law is less
permissive and even using Google to identify possible errors in
On October 8, 2017 3:46:07 PM EDT, Paul Johnson wrote:
>
>County and rural roads, particularly of the 3- and 4-digit National
>Forest
>routes and...really pick an unpaved section line almost anywhere in an
>area
>bounded by the Rocky Mountain frontier, the Appalachian
Riverside in Tulsa is fairly clearly a primary for most of its length. It isn't
part of a larger trunk route nor is it an expressway.
Personally, I think of trunk as more like motorway than like the other highway
values. Motorway is clearly used only for controlled access freeways (excepting
I've seen several other uses in local media as well, but no links since I'm
stuck on my phone for a good long while..
-Nathan
On September 14, 2017 12:06:38 AM EDT, James Mast
wrote:
I'm sorry, but the closest thing to toxicity I've seen are the overly vehement
objections to the mere gathering of data. It might be worth examining why
someone gathering demographic data is causing such a strong reaction.
I sincerely cannot comprehend why anyone would be against this. I can
Typically state DOT functional classification freeway and expressway both imply
limited, but not necessarily fully controlled, access, so trunk is a good first
approximation. However, the DOT classification diverges enough from OSM tagging
standards/consensus (such as it is in the US, anyway)
Had it been discussed beforehand so that other consumers would be aware of the
meaning of the new tag, I wouldn't personally have a problem with it. access=no
is also a decent suggestion (and would not require discussion with the
community beforehand), but there is likely a quantitative
OKDOT provides updates on Twitter as well as posts weekly (and occasionally
more often when warranted) "Traffax" PDF updates on their website that has a
list of all scheduled roadwork and closures on state highways. Back in the
olden days Traffax was blasted via fax to all the news outlets in
Personally, I think using TIGER as an example of an import gone wrong is not
accurate. Knowing what we know now, things certainly could have been done
better. If nothing else, waiting for TIGER 2010 would have been prudent, as the
accuracy was much improved. But that wasn't something that was
This is how I have always used addr:city. It reflects the postal address since
it is a property of the address and not the parcel itself. People once used the
is_in tag to capture the other meaning, but it seems unnecessary to me since
one can simply check for an enclosing admin boundary.
On
At least with regard to the ref tag on a way, there has seemed to be be a lack
of consensus as to whether the state DOT should be followed or whether to use
the postal abbreviation to prefix state routes. Different states are tagged
differently.
I personally prefer the state code in the ref
I can't speak to this specific instance, but based on Paul's usual criteria,
I'd take what he has to say on the topic with a grain of salt. I gave up trying
to convince him OK11 between I-244 and US-75 in Tulsa should be tagged as a
motorway a long time ago, even though it has zero at grade
Just keep in mind that some ZIPs cover multiple cities. The one I'm standing in
now is found in parts of at least 3 different cities that I know of. Others
cover both (parts of) cities and unincorporated areas outside of the city whose
name they are associated with.
-Nathan
On November 9,
I'm still confused as to why the consumers of a relation can't use the
forward/backward roles of the ways referenced therein rather than requiring
completely separate relations. Why do we need two or more relations plus a
super relation per road route even for undivided highways? Even for a
relations and a super relation.
Maybe I missed some earlier discussions on the advantages of the multiple
relation model?
-Nathan
Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote:
2013/11/18 Nathan Mills nat...@nwacg.net
I'm still confused as to why the consumers of a relation can't use
Sorry, the center of the universe is in Tulsa on the pedestrian bridge across
the railroad tracks downtown.
Also, Postgres tells me that the geographic center of the lower 48 is at
39.5359,-99.1558 (ish)
Yours in precision,
-Nathan
Clifford Snow cliff...@snowandsnow.us wrote:
Just to remind
On 10/17/2013 1:03 PM, Richard Welty wrote:
hmmm. we're using exit_to (i think) for off ramps, maybe we need
entrance_to for on ramps
the value would be more or less exactly the text visible on the
signage.
This makes the most sense to me as the solution for the specific use
case Martijn is
Route relation tagging is explained on the wiki:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:route#Road_routes
On 6/22/2013 7:21 PM, Evin Fairchild wrote:
I get that you say that keeping wiki pages up to date with the status of
route relations is a pain, but I do hope that this new form of
My city kindly places identification signs along the borders of many of the
defined neighborhoods. Other neighborhoods are coterminous with a particular
subdivision.
Still others like midtown are mean whatever the person saying it wants it to
mean.
The former are reasonable to map. The latter
If we're going for accuracy, corridor proposals should be mapped as a polygon.
They are area features which may someday become linear.
That said, I don't think that such early proposals belong in the database at
all.
Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote:
On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 5:35 PM,
On topic, it seems silly to map (in OSM; obviously maps of such corridors are
useful in their own right) a proposed route that is nothing more than a 50 mile
wide corridor in which a route may eventually be routed, prospective USBR
number or no.
Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote:
Let's bring
On 2/13/2013 6:27 AM, Paul Johnson wrote:
Considering that there's nearly 40 in the area within relation 161645
(Oklahoma), I'd honestly be surprised if there aren't at least
50-something just within states starting with O.
AFAIK, all of the reservations in Oklahoma were allotted before
On 2/10/2013 10:32 AM, Russ Nelson wrote:
So I have resigned myself to allowing OSM to be a little bit worse
because of him. How many other people have made the same decision? How
much worse is OSM because of NE2? Does this outweigh his positive
accomplishments?
I don't think I'm the only
So this is not/should not be a mini_roundabout? It seems a little silly
to call it anything else, since the city just dug a hole in the center
of the existing intersection, built a circular curb, and planted a tree:
http://g.co/maps/e2gsv
What about this one? Also a full on roundabout?
On 5/7/2012 3:30 PM, Paul Johnson wrote:
On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 1:28 PM, Nathan Millsnat...@nwacg.net wrote:
http://g.co/maps/hnbp9
All three are roundabouts, yes.
How are you going to properly map the first one? There is no
channelization or anything that makes the intersection circular.
On 5/4/2012 4:21 PM, Ian Dees wrote:
To the contrary, this whole conversation started because we received
multiple complaints about this area from mappers who wanted to create
data in this area but couldn't because of too much data. In that
sense, this data is already handicapping the
On 4/2/2012 12:06 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote:
I offer TIGER as counterevidence. It's imperfect but a great starting
point for local mappers, especially those without a GPS setup.
This is definitely true for those of us in areas with few mappers. OSM
would be largely useless here without the
On 3/17/2012 10:20 AM, Reiser, John J. wrote:
What about using county or state-wide parcel data for address points?
Centroid of each real property lot. There's many problems with doing this
for a whole state; NJ has many cases of one house sitting on multiple lots
(old subdivisions of 25'x60',
On 3/15/2012 4:59 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote:
lots of driving and all you get is street names, since everything else
is single-family houses.
And address points, amenities, water features, gates, and whatever else
might be around, maybe a bridge or a stream or something. Oh, and don't
forget
On 3/15/2012 6:10 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote:
How does this work? Do you stop at every house and write down the
address?
I mount a camera on the windshield and use JOSM's image plugin to place
them on the track, then it's just a matter of looking at the images and
identifying addresses, then
On 1/17/2012 1:50 PM, Josh Doe wrote:
NE2 is a well known and prolific user. Please be more specific on what
he's doing that you disagree with, and link to specific changesets
and/or objects. I'm assuming you've already discussed this issue with
him and can't come to an agreement.
A well
On Wed, 2 Nov 2011 09:35:58 -0400, Steven Johnson wrote:
Up to now, weve been talking largely about addresses as point
features. However, one thing I think would be good to have is block
ranges on streets. What I mean is a tag that indicates this is the
1000 block, the 1100 block, the 1200
On Wed, 2 Nov 2011 23:12:09 +0100, Frederik Ramm wrote:
Importing more and more data will not make OSM strong. It might make
OSM look useful in the short term but that's cheap usefulness
So you're saying that if I don't go out and spend thousands of dollars
and countless hours driving every
On Tue, 1 Nov 2011 17:16:11 -0600, Martijn van Exel wrote:
By the way, if that page looks empty, that's because I just did not
find very many resources on the state level which is where I looked.
But at least I put in a link to what appears to be the central
clearinghouse / catalog for
On Tue, 1 Nov 2011 19:40:27 -0500, Toby Murray wrote:
It is also data that is time consuming and, for a lot of people,
boring to collect and enter. If you're mapping a shop or restaurant
that you are visiting it's one thing to add in a couple of addr:*
tags
but to get truly good coverage
On Wed, 02 Nov 2011 00:02:13 -0400, Richard Welty wrote:
i don't know about that, but i certainly think that the current
default
mapnik rendering for openstreetmap.org is showing us too much
addressing
detail. i'm not sure what showing the address interpolation ways here
really
adds to the
On Sat, 8 Oct 2011 08:44:04 -0400, Anthony wrote:
By that rationale, all government owned land is access=private.
No. In a park, for example, you have a right of access by default. Or
the flood
control structures around here, where it's perfectly legal to wander
around all
you like, so long
On Sat, 08 Oct 2011 08:40:51 -0500, John F. Eldredge wrote:
The access=emergency tag is documented in the wiki as meaning that
access is permitted for emergency vehicles, and would seem to ideally
fit this situation. Admittedly, it is documented only if you search
for the word emergency,
On Sat, 08 Oct 2011 09:28:32 -0500, John F. Eldredge wrote:
That would also work, although causeway implies that the roadway is
raised higher than the terrain to either side of the roadway, whereas
embankment=yes might imply that only one side had an embankment (as
in
a road built along a
On Tue, 04 Oct 2011 22:39:24 -0700, Paul Norman wrote:
In this case the A was part of the house number and 112A had no
connection
to 112.
What I see around here more often is suite numbers (e.g. 101, 102)
that are
placed in front of the number when written out, but sometimes are
placed
On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 15:05:22 -0400, Lars Ahlzen wrote:
I completely agree with you, though. The trace from my cellphone is
horrifically bad compared to that of my GPSMap60, so I still use the
latter a lot for mapping.
What phones are you guys using? The TI chips Nokia uses seem to usually
get
On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 13:31:51 -0400, Nathan Edgars II wrote:
And what state, despite the implications of some here.
Other than the cases where a state maintains a road as part of their
route network which is not actually in that state. Or the more common
case where a state highway is
On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 15:08:22 -0400, Nathan Edgars II wrote:
In both those (literally) edge cases, the relation will tell all.
So are you volunteering to make relations for every route that has this
complication?
___
Talk-us mailing list
On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 16:52:48 -0400, Nathan Edgars II wrote:
But the same problem exists with county routes along county lines. Do
you think the ref tag for a county route should contain a county
abbreviation?
FIPS codes would be better, as they are a completely unique identifier
for US
Before I was too swamped with other stuff to do much OSM work, I was
using AR XX and OK XX. We've had this discussion before, though. My
contention is and was that the state prefix is necessary because there
are cases of ways belonging to two different networks in (not
physically, but
My personal preference is to use directional roles so that they match
what is written on signage. It also avoids the inevitable which way is
forward and which is backward question.
On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 13:44:45 -0400, Nathan Edgars II wrote:
I've started using forward/backward roles rather
Sounds like someone's idea of a joke to me. I put the chance of accident at
about 1 in 1
- Original message -
On 6/3/2011 9:43 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.722lon=-75.094zoom=10layers=M
I'm currently looking for the source; please report here
On Sun, 29 May 2011 02:18:09 -0400, Nathan Edgars II wrote:
On 5/29/2011 1:50 AM, Nathan Mills wrote:
It's actually faster to take 441 to Yeehaw and get on the turnpike
there
when traveling from eastern and southeastern Orlando to points south
of
Port St. Lucie.
Even with the four-laning
On Sun, 29 May 2011 03:00:03 -0400, Nathan Edgars II wrote:
Perhaps the best way to handle it would be to render a wider line if
oneway=yes and not lanes=1 or if oneway=no/unset and lanes=4 or more.
Thus divided highways would not need a lane count to be wider, but
undivided roads would need to
On Sun, 29 May 2011 12:09:30 -0700, Paul Johnson wrote:
I'm thinking the differences between motorways and trunks are minor.
Trunks may have intersections, motorways don't.
That's the simple way to state my opinion. It also seemed to be the
thrust of most of the discussion on the talk page
On Sun, 29 May 2011 20:00:33 -0400, Nathan Edgars II wrote:
On 5/29/2011 5:16 PM, Paul Johnson wrote:
subtle mass vandalism
This is why I ignore Paul.
Though I really wonder about this edit:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/14751094/history
Using your standard, there's nothing to
On Sat, 28 May 2011 01:36:00 -0400, Nathan Edgars II wrote:
I mean best route, period. There's no diagonal Interstate there.
US-71 to I-44 to I-40 is faster. Not really a route I'd enjoy, but
still faster.
___
Talk-us mailing list
On Sat, 28 May 2011 15:19:03 -0400, Anthony wrote:
In my experience the difference between primary and trunk is
generally
very minor, to the point where I'm not sure there'd be any advantage
at all in a router using it as a hint.
But maybe that's just because the places where I use OSM are
On Sat, 28 May 2011 20:54:07 -0400, Nathan Edgars II wrote:
You described your criteria, but did not explain how trunk is more
appropriate than primary for a two lane rural highway between two
small-to-tiny cities. If you use trunk for that, there is no way to
describe (in a way that shows up
On Sat, 28 May 2011 21:30:50 -0400, Anthony wrote:
Say, Dothan, Alabama to Hattiesburg, Mississippi, avoid motorways.
What should the router take?
In that particular case, it should in fact take US-84. (US-231 to I-10
to US-98 would in fact be faster; I know this having taken both routes,
On Sat, 28 May 2011 21:51:31 -0400, Nathan Edgars II wrote:
It's been rebuilt as a good-quality four-lane in Mississippi, eastern
Alabama, and Georgia. Alabama has been a little slower at four-laning
than its neighbors, but US 84 in western Alabama is still a direct
route connecting the
On Sat, 28 May 2011 22:39:51 -0400, Anthony wrote:
On Sat, May 28, 2011 at 9:47 PM, Nathan Mills nat...@nwacg.net
wrote:
Primary means (at least according to most of the wiki pages)
the primary non-motorway route between two cities.
Any wiki pages that say that are clearly wrong. Trunk
You agree that if a router has two possible roads to take between two
cities, and one is a trunk, and one is a primary, and all other
things
are equal, that the router should choose the trunk, right? Doesn't
that make trunk, by definition, the primary non-motorway route
between
two cities?
On Sat, 28 May 2011 23:00:11 -0400, Anthony wrote:
Instead of giving me hypothetical if..then answers, can you give me a
straightforward answer?
You're trying to get an exact answer to something that isn't an exact
science, so no. I'm allowing for the fact that there may be a situation
in
On Sun, 29 May 2011 00:13:33 -0400, Anthony wrote:
If you want to get people to tag more than two lanes and a
barely-existent shoulder, I think you'd have much more success
creating tags for those features than convincing people that their
area of the country isn't allowed to have any trunks.
On Sun, 29 May 2011 00:13:33 -0400, Anthony wrote:
convincing people that their
area of the country isn't allowed to have any trunks.
Also, why is this any worse than not having a motorway? I don't think
the folks in Newton County Arkansas care a whit whether the main road
through their
On Sun, 29 May 2011 00:57:30 -0400, Anthony wrote:
That's quite the misrepresentation of what I'm saying.
It was an exact quote.
You may have heard of the concept of the pull quote. It describes
using partial quotations to misrepresent someone else's position.
Again, my point is
that
On Sun, 29 May 2011 01:04:24 -0400, Anthony wrote:
On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 12:59 AM, Nathan Mills nat...@nwacg.net
wrote:
On Sun, 29 May 2011 00:13:33 -0400, Anthony wrote:
convincing people that their
area of the country isn't allowed to have any trunks.
Also, why is this any worse than
On Sun, 29 May 2011 01:00:25 -0400, Nathan Edgars II wrote:
On 5/29/2011 12:37 AM, Nathan Mills wrote:
US-441 between St. Cloud and Yeehaw Junction could easily be trunk
by
NE2's definition
Nope, since any through traffic will be on the Turnpike. US 441
serves mainly only local and toll
On Fri, 27 May 2011 12:17:53 -0400, Nathan Edgars II wrote:
The 'major intercity' road ought to be tagged as primary unless
there's
a specific reason to upgrade, IMO. That leaves the data more useful
to
end users.
Actually that leaves it less useful for users in cities, as then
there are
On Fri, 27 May 2011 21:26:53 -0500, John F. Eldredge wrote:
I have driven on quite a few highways here in the USA that vary, mile
by mile, in the number of lanes, how well they are graded, whether or
not driveways connect directly to the highway, etc. This usually
reflects their having been
On Mon, 11 Apr 2011 13:47:02 -0400, Phil! Gold wrote:
In my opinion, there's too much variation in how each state organizes
and
numbers its state-and-lower roads to make a uniform, US-wide rule. I
would say that state highways should be network=US:ST (where ST is
the
two-letter state
On Sun, 10 Apr 2011 20:06:06 +, j...@jfeldredge.com wrote:
How would deleting a way that wasn't part of a relation damage a
relation linked to some other way? Using that logic, every time a
way
is deleted, every relation not linked to that way would be damaged,
regardless of where in the
On Sun, 10 Apr 2011 20:19:19 +, j...@jfeldredge.com wrote:
You had stated that the two ways were identical, other than the
relation, so deleting the way that wasn't linked to the relation
would
still leave the relation referring to the same way, in the same
location, as before. So, the
Assume that there is a state highway routed through a city. At an
intersection within the city, the route turns in some direction or
another. For that to be accurately reflected, the ways must end at the
intersection. If the constituent ways extend through the intersection,
as they might if
On Sun, 10 Apr 2011 20:14:18 -0400, Nathan Edgars II wrote:
It's almost like they defined super-groups of counties identified by
those letters. I'll have to crunch that table to see if that's the
case
so we could have network=US:CA:S + ref=CR S18. Maybe add an
is_in:county tag to the
On Fri, 08 Apr 2011 14:11:49 -0400, Nathan Edgars II wrote:
On 4/8/2011 2:00 PM, James Mast wrote:
I just thought I would throw this out there so this can be settled
once
and for all. Which ref tag setup do you think should be used for
State
Highways on ways (not relations)? PA-44 or 44.
Paul Johnson wrote:
I'd be more inclined to believe this if you weren't the only one arguing
this and you had some local knowledge, and similar local/express
arrangements are tagged in the same manner in Texas when I was looking
for how to tag that section.
As you're aware, I disagree with the
On Wed, 2011-01-26 at 19:56 -0500, Mike N wrote:
On 1/25/2011 12:14 PM, Nathan Mills wrote:
I propose to import the situs address points available from Geostor
In considering future synchronization cycles with point data,
several cases can be seen:
Yes, future synchronization could
I propose to import the situs address points available from Geostor
(http://www.geostor.arkansas.gov/G6/Home.html?q=situs+address). I have
confirmed with that this data is public domain, and spot checks of its
accuracy in areas I'm personally familiar with show that the vast
majority of the points
On Tue, 2011-01-25 at 13:46 -0500, Mike N wrote:
I'd recommend creating a page on the Wiki for this import - link to
it from the base Arkansas page
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Arkansas ; new local mappers should
arrive here to learn about past and future mapping projects.
Done
So if a motorway became sub-standard through a small city with a low speed
limit, but still limited access, you think tagging it as secondary or tertiary
would be appropriate? Seems to me that it's functioning as a motorway
regardless of the speed limit.
I-93 is a pathological case, and since
I ran into a situation today that I can't figure out how to correctly
map. The westbound carriageway of I-40 in the easternmost few miles of
Oklahoma is closed for construction and the westbound lanes are now
routed on the eastbound carriageway.
What's the best way to map this? Leave both
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