Re: [Talk-us] NE2: Changeset 6612910: What is?

2010-12-14 Thread Paul Johnson
On 12/14/2010 12:38 AM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 1:16 AM, Paul Johnson baloo-PVOPTusIyP/sroww+9z...@public.gmane.org wrote: On 12/13/2010 11:07 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: And US 169: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/83581697 was missing a ref tag. None

Re: [Talk-us] NE2: Changeset 6612910: What is?

2010-12-14 Thread Paul Johnson
On 12/14/2010 08:21 AM, Paul Johnson wrote: On 12/14/2010 12:38 AM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 1:16 AM, Paul Johnson baloo-PVOPTusIyP/sroww+9z...@public.gmane.org wrote: On 12/13/2010 11:07 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: And US 169: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way

Re: [Talk-us] NE2: Changeset 6612910: What is?

2010-12-14 Thread Paul Johnson
On 12/14/2010 08:47 AM, Anthony wrote: On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Paul Johnson baloo-PVOPTusIyP/sroww+9z...@public.gmane.org wrote: Besides that, when do you plan on citing a source that isn't copyrighted when you're mapping? If that's your only source, you can't use it: That's

Re: [Talk-us] NE2: Changeset 6612910: What is?

2010-12-14 Thread Paul Johnson
On 12/14/2010 05:38 PM, Jeff Harris wrote: As far as Creek Turnpike and US 169, pics or it doesn't exist. Certainly, but given that stopping is prohibited and there is a minimum speed limit, how do you propose these be taken? signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [Talk-us] NE2: Changeset 6612910: What is?

2010-12-14 Thread Paul Johnson
On 12/14/2010 05:44 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: Thanks for joining in without any knowledge of the area or situation. Same could be said of you; when was the last time you were in Tulsa? signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___

Re: [Talk-us] NE2: Changeset 6612910: What is?

2010-12-14 Thread Paul Johnson
On 12/14/2010 10:53 PM, Bill Ricker wrote: On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 11:46 PM, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org mailto:ba...@ursamundi.org wrote: As far as Creek Turnpike and US 169, pics or it doesn't exist. Certainly, but given that stopping is prohibited

Re: [Talk-us] NE2: Changeset 6612910: What is?

2010-12-14 Thread Paul Johnson
On 12/14/2010 10:59 PM, Paul Johnson wrote: On 12/14/2010 10:53 PM, Bill Ricker wrote: On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 11:46 PM, Paul Johnson baloo-PVOPTusIyP/sroww+9z...@public.gmane.org mailto:ba...@ursamundi.org wrote: As far as Creek Turnpike and US 169, pics or it doesn't exist

Re: [Talk-us] NE2: Changeset 6612910: What is?

2010-12-14 Thread Paul Johnson
Another thing I should mention, proof of surveying for the sign can be found at http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Paul%20Johnson/traces/884510. As soon as I find a suitable dash cam or volunteer to ride shotgun, I'll get video. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [Talk-us] NE2: Changeset 6612910: What is?

2010-12-14 Thread Paul Johnson
On 12/14/2010 11:56 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: Based on your addition of the sign (thanks for adding it) it's only 500 feet (150 m) from the exit ramp, which is where OSM currently has US 169 ending (and where the relation has had it ending since well before this little brouhaha). This is

[Talk-us] NE2: Changeset 6612910: What is?

2010-12-13 Thread Paul Johnson
You wrote US relation fixup etc as the changeset comment for this, and it covers almost all of the lower 48. What is actually going on with this changeset? signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-us mailing list

Re: [Talk-us] NE2: Changeset 6612910: What is?

2010-12-13 Thread Paul Johnson
On 12/13/2010 02:45 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 3:40 PM, Toby Murray toby.murray-re5jqeeqqe8avxtiumw...@public.gmane.org wrote: On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 12:43 PM, Nathan Edgars II neroute2-re5jqeeqqe8avxtiumw...@public.gmane.org wrote: I fixed up some of the U.S.

Re: [Talk-us] High Priority Corridors?

2010-12-12 Thread Paul Johnson
On 12/12/2010 04:31 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 5:25 PM, Richard Weait richard-gnthur35lhcavxtiumw...@public.gmane.org wrote: On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Ian Dees ian.dees-re5jqeeqqe8avxtiumw...@public.gmane.org wrote: It appears that User:NE2 has added a tag

[Talk-us] Panhandling access?

2010-12-05 Thread Paul Johnson
I'm wondering if there's any good tags for whether a location allows or prohibits panhandling. I've discovered a serious need for that in Tulsa lately, as I would rather shop at places that bar the practice entirely (including bell-ringers) than be bothered by vagrants who can't be arsed to find

Re: [Talk-us] How to use 2010 NAIP imagery for tracing?

2010-11-26 Thread Paul Johnson
On 11/26/2010 12:52 PM, Ian Dees wrote: On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 12:33 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com mailto:nerou...@gmail.com wrote: The WMS URLs on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/National_Agriculture_Imagery_Program don't have the latest imagery available from

Re: [Talk-us] musings on TIGER tags

2010-11-25 Thread Paul Johnson
On 11/23/2010 08:13 AM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 8:46 AM, Antony Pegg apegg-QyUQbcD9tSJWk0Htik3J/w...@public.gmane.org wrote: I agree with most of this. One very useful thing I've found tho is the (off the top of my head) tiger:name_type=aly seems all the alley's

Re: [Talk-us] Tagging bicycle anti-routes

2010-11-05 Thread Paul Johnson
On 11/04/2010 03:22 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: If there's a specific intersection or stretch of road that's hazardous to a law-abiding cyclist, consider cycle_hazard=* (like cycle_hazard=door zone or cycle_hazard=bike lane to right of right turn lane). The problem with this answer is that it

Re: [Talk-us] Tagging bicycle anti-routes

2010-11-05 Thread Paul Johnson
On 11/04/2010 09:31 AM, Leroy E Leonard wrote: The next step is tagging tricky intersections and sections of roadway where cyclist should exercise extra caution. Any recommendations for tagging these anti-features? There's currently a tagging proposal with some live usage on access tags for

Re: [Talk-us] Divided diamond interchanges in the US

2010-10-28 Thread Paul Johnson
On 10/28/2010 03:27 PM, Alex Mauer wrote: I recently stumbled upon an article[1] about the new use of the divided diamond interchange design in the US. It seems that the first one[2] is here[3] in Missouri and as yet unmapped. A second one in the same city is here[4], and it appears that

Re: [Talk-us] Interstate exit junction tagging

2010-10-27 Thread Paul Johnson
On 10/26/2010 06:42 AM, Phil! Gold wrote: * Mike N. nice...@att.net [2010-10-25 21:44 -0400]: Since I believe the name={signInfo] is a US-only convention and there are no other strong opinions, we should look at changing this. I like the idea of putting the immediately-connected road in the

Re: [Talk-us] Interstate exit junction tagging

2010-10-27 Thread Paul Johnson
On 10/26/2010 07:33 AM, Mike N. wrote: I like the idea of putting the immediately-connected road in the exit_to= tag and leaving the rest of the sign's text to destination sign relations. I fully agree that some people's current practice (including mine in the past) makes for a very clittered

Re: [Talk-us] Interstate exit junction tagging

2010-10-27 Thread Paul Johnson
On 10/27/2010 10:45 AM, Peter Budny wrote: Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org writes: On 10/26/2010 06:42 AM, Phil! Gold wrote: * Mike N. nice...@att.net [2010-10-25 21:44 -0400]: Since I believe the name={signInfo] is a US-only convention and there are no other strong opinions, we should

Re: [Talk-us] stop signs

2010-10-27 Thread Paul Johnson
On 10/26/2010 09:17 AM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 8:36 AM, Adam Schreiber sadam-pwfglq4rzxkvc3sceru...@public.gmane.org wrote: I think that 4-way and 3-way stops can be handled unambiguously by highway=stop. More complex stops should probably be modeled with turn

Re: [Talk-us] Route Tagging Consensus

2010-10-25 Thread Paul Johnson
On 10/25/2010 08:43 AM, Zeke Farwell wrote: For Michigan route 12: ref=12 network=state state=michigan For Bennington County route 16 in Vermont: ref=16 network=county state=vermont county=bennington I like it, though it should be pointed out that this is more difficult unless we're

Re: [Talk-us] Highway Tagging Consensus to Improve OSM (and address some of 41 latitude's concerns)

2010-10-23 Thread Paul Johnson
On 10/23/2010 10:39 AM, Ian Dees wrote: On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 10:31 AM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com mailto:nerou...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 11:15 AM, Phil! Gold phi...@pobox.com mailto:phi...@pobox.com wrote: Do you know whether other states have

Re: [Talk-us] Highway Tagging Consensus to Improve OSM (and address some of 41 latitude's concerns)

2010-10-19 Thread Paul Johnson
On 10/18/2010 04:54 PM, Anthony wrote: First of all, the ref tags aren't valid. The numbers are references of *routes*, not of *ways*. Seems like whenever I point that out, the counterargument is that there should be different tags for refs that actually do have anything at all to do with the

Re: [Talk-us] Do City Labels look funny to you?

2010-10-19 Thread Paul Johnson
On 10/19/2010 05:00 PM, Ian Dees wrote: On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 4:52 PM, Mike N. nice...@att.net mailto:nice...@att.net wrote: Tom Hughes, OSM contributor and infrastructure guru has written an interesting summary of why some part of OSM can look strange.

Re: [Talk-us] Do City Labels look funny to you?

2010-10-19 Thread Paul Johnson
On 10/19/2010 05:09 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 6:00 PM, Ian Dees ian.dees-re5jqeeqqe8avxtiumw...@public.gmane.org wrote: - Support for route relations Why should this be US-specific? Canada certainly has the same sort of route system as the US, That was an

Re: [Talk-us] Request for community mediation

2010-10-17 Thread Paul Johnson
On 10/17/2010 04:23 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote: Tyler, On 10/17/2010 01:57 AM, Tyler Ritchie wrote: If we should continue to receive more complaints from or about the individuals named in this posting, we will respond by banning both accounts until they cool down. How are you

Re: [Talk-us] Request for community mediation

2010-10-17 Thread Paul Johnson
On 10/16/2010 06:54 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 7:44 PM, Paul Johnson baloo-PVOPTusIyP/sroww+9z...@public.gmane.org wrote: On 10/16/2010 06:02 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: So would you have no objection to my use of bicycle=avoid on roads that have bike lanes

Re: [Talk-us] Highway Tagging Consensus to Improve OSM (and address some of 41 latitude's concerns)

2010-10-16 Thread Paul Johnson
On 10/15/2010 11:47 AM, Val Kartchner wrote: The standard should be something easy to parse. Perhaps, for the above example, it would be US:UT:SR-67. This would allow an easy way to parse which shield to use. For instance, a made-up Canadian route would be CA:BC:12. The colons would

Re: [Talk-us] Highway Tagging Consensus to Improve OSM (and address some of 41 latitude's concerns)

2010-10-16 Thread Paul Johnson
On 10/15/2010 03:04 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 3:55 PM, Ian Dees ian.dees-re5jqeeqqe8avxtiumw...@public.gmane.org wrote: Surely we're missing plenty of people by only having a discussion on the mailing list? SoTM.US proved to me that there are orders of magnitude more

Re: [Talk-us] State Route relations

2010-10-16 Thread Paul Johnson
On 10/16/2010 06:24 AM, Richard Welty wrote: On 10/16/10 7:12 AM, Mike N. wrote: One thing I /haven't/ seen addressed yet is whether single relations are preferred, or one relation for each way with a super-relation. Currently both are in use, but I think it would be a lot easier for future

Re: [Talk-us] Highway Tagging Consensus to Improve OSM (and address some of 41 latitude's concerns)

2010-10-16 Thread Paul Johnson
On 10/15/2010 05:08 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: On Fri, Oct 15, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Ian Dees ian.dees-re5jqeeqqe8avxtiumw...@public.gmane.org wrote: I don't think we should be storing any prefix as part of the network=* or ref=* tags (thus my suggestion for

Re: [Talk-us] Request for community mediation

2010-10-16 Thread Paul Johnson
On 10/16/2010 05:38 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 6:15 PM, Frederik Ramm frederik-vktbmbtyydudnm+yrof...@public.gmane.org wrote: There is one person in the US community - Paul Johnson a.k.a. baloo - who is rather creative with his tagging. It seems to us that Paul has

Re: [Talk-us] Request for community mediation

2010-10-16 Thread Paul Johnson
On 10/16/2010 06:02 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 6:52 PM, Paul Johnson baloo-PVOPTusIyP/sroww+9z...@public.gmane.org wrote: If bicycle=avoid were a valid tag, I'd use it on roads like this that have unsafe bike facilities: There's no such thing as an invalid tag

Re: [Talk-us] Removing tiger:* tags

2010-08-08 Thread Paul Johnson
On Sat, 07 Aug 2010 17:55:17 -0700, Alan Mintz wrote: If it's fatiguing for you, I'll accept that, even though I don't see that myself when using Potlatch or JOSM. Let's modify whatever editor you use to hide those tags for you if you want. OK, fix JOSM then.

Re: [Talk-us] Abbreviation Police

2010-08-08 Thread Paul Johnson
On Sat, 07 Aug 2010 18:13:18 -0600, Kevin Atkinson wrote: On Sat, 7 Aug 2010, Paul Johnson wrote: On Tue, 03 Aug 2010 23:32:54 -0600, Kevin Atkinson wrote: Rather than United Stated Highway 29 Frontage Road just U.S. 29 Frontage Road or maybe US 29 Frontage Road. Why. Because no will say

Re: [Talk-us] Abbreviation Police

2010-08-07 Thread Paul Johnson
On Tue, 03 Aug 2010 23:32:54 -0600, Kevin Atkinson wrote: Rather than United Stated Highway 29 Frontage Road just U.S. 29 Frontage Road or maybe US 29 Frontage Road. Why. Because no will say the formal out load. Rather than Interstate 95 Frontage Road, just I-95 Frontage Road. Why? Even

Re: [Talk-us] Removing tiger:* tags

2010-08-07 Thread Paul Johnson
On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:52:31 -0700, Dave Hansen wrote: Please keep them. They're not hurting anything. Mapper fatigue. I don't really see how anything beyond tiger:reviewed=no and tiger:tlid= tags are useful at this point, save to make tags more difficult to sift through by human editors.

Re: [Talk-us] Abbreviation Police

2010-08-07 Thread Paul Johnson
On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 14:56:51 -0700, Alan Mintz wrote: Yes. Last time, a couple of us (or maybe just me - I forget) argued that it was OK to use common abbreviations for some well-known street types - at least St, Ave, Blvd, Pl, etc. - but the opposition was significant, and no change could be

Re: [Talk-us] Directional Prefix/Postfix Proposal

2010-08-07 Thread Paul Johnson
On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 21:05:10 -0600, Kevin Atkinson wrote: To avoid this either: 1) A clear exception needs to be made 2) The official rule need to be toned down. I vote for 3) It's there for good reason. If you want abbreviations, tell your map renderer to garble the data for you.

Re: [Talk-us] Directional Prefix/Postfix Proposal

2010-08-07 Thread Paul Johnson
On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 19:54:48 -0600, Kevin Atkinson wrote: I would like to formally propose two things 1) An exception to the abbreviation rule for directional indicators with the fully expanded name going into alt_name 2) New tags to record the presence of directional indicators

Re: [Talk-us] Abbreviation Police

2010-08-07 Thread Paul Johnson
On Wed, 04 Aug 2010 00:04:31 -0600, Kevin Atkinson wrote: Since when does a frontage road get a Highway shield? There's some special cases in Oregon where I 84 and US 30 are multiplexed. US 30 takes the frontage in every city except Portland, Gresham, Wood Village and Troutdale. Granted,

Re: [Talk-us] Abbreviation Police

2010-08-07 Thread Paul Johnson
On Wed, 04 Aug 2010 08:09:10 -0400, Richard Welty wrote: On 8/4/10 7:45 AM, Richard Weait wrote: North Service Road and South Service Road. Romantic names, I know. Are these similar to what you are calling frontage roads? http://www.openstreetmap.org/?

Re: [Talk-us] Abbreviation Police

2010-08-07 Thread Paul Johnson
On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 15:42:52 -0700, Apollinaris Schoell wrote: I think typically this isn't part of a name at all. Are people using it in an address for mailing? how is it written in official records? how would anyone do a search for a street? there are many corner cases so there is no simple

Re: [Talk-us] Proposal to change ref format for county roads in Florida from (x) to CR x

2010-08-07 Thread Paul Johnson
On Wed, 04 Aug 2010 08:17:43 -0400, Nathan Edgars II wrote: Presently numbered county roads in Florida (and New Jersey) are tagged using parentheses, for example ref=(535) for County Road 535. The reasons for this are essentially a historical accident. I'm proposing a semi-automated change

Re: [Talk-us] Abbreviation Police

2010-08-07 Thread Paul Johnson
On Mon, 02 Aug 2010 15:37:33 -0600, Kevin Atkinson wrote: Or do people here really think everything should be expand to the fullest. Abbreviations are bad because they can't be easily automatically expanded. However, it's easy to abbreviate in a renderer when you know what the full word is.

Re: [Talk-us] How to get college students involved?

2010-08-07 Thread Paul Johnson
On Fri, 06 Aug 2010 13:00:48 -0400, Stefan Brandle wrote: I teach computer science at a university about half way between Indianapolis and Ft. Wayne. I would love to have someone show us how to get involved mapping precise data locally and submitting it to various online data sets, or working

Re: [Talk-us] Abbreviation Police

2010-08-07 Thread Paul Johnson
On Sat, 07 Aug 2010 18:28:26 -0700, Alan Mintz wrote: Lastly, it matches the overwhelming majority of print usage and signage. If print usage and signage were consistent even between cities in the same state, I'd tend to agree. Given that what areas abbreviate which words and what

Re: [Talk-us] Fwd: Re: [OSM-talk] Mapquest launches site based on OSM!

2010-08-07 Thread Paul Johnson
On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 20:06:52 -0400, Phil! Gold wrote: * Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org [2010-07-21 00:19 -0700]: On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 07:15:18 -0400, Phil! Gold wrote: I what way does OpenCycleMap get this right? As far as I can tell, it doesn't render road shields at all

Re: [Talk-us] Directional Prefix/Postfix Proposal

2010-08-07 Thread Paul Johnson
On Sat, 07 Aug 2010 18:43:33 -0600, Kevin Atkinson wrote: I am unlikely to try too push this though any time soon, so the abbreviation police have won again, for now. Why so condescending? I can't say this attitude is likely to change consensus in your favor, especially considering that

Re: [Talk-us] Fwd: Re: [OSM-talk] Mapquest launches site based on OSM!

2010-07-21 Thread Paul Johnson
On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 07:15:18 -0400, Phil! Gold wrote: * Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org [2010-07-20 00:51 -0700]: On Mon, 19 Jul 2010 17:09:35 -0400, Phil! Gold wrote: In short, I'm okay seeing ref=K-10 on a road, because that's how people refer to them, and because I'd prefer

Re: [Talk-us] Fwd: Re: [OSM-talk] Mapquest launches site based on OSM!

2010-07-21 Thread Paul Johnson
On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 09:18:43 -0500, Toby Murray wrote: On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 2:50 AM, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote:  Curious why they use a starburst symbol that looks like an explosion for the trailblazer shield, though. It's a sunflower :) I like my version better, the mental

Re: [Talk-us] Fwd: Re: [OSM-talk] Mapquest launches site based on OSM!

2010-07-20 Thread Paul Johnson
On Mon, 19 Jul 2010 14:23:28 -0500, Alex Mauer wrote: On 07/19/2010 01:13 PM, Phil! Gold wrote: The problem with using refs to render state shields is that it can be difficult to get the right shield. Some states use the state abbreviation in the road reference (so Maryland route 26 is

Re: [Talk-us] Fwd: Re: [OSM-talk] Mapquest launches site based on OSM!

2010-07-20 Thread Paul Johnson
On Mon, 19 Jul 2010 15:41:10 -0500, Toby Murray wrote: I see at least one highway in Kansas has been tagged with K-10 - I'm guessing most people would consider that flat out wrong? :) Yes, even though Kansas does refer to state highways as K roads, even on official signage. Curious why they

[Talk-us] Oklahoma WMS?

2010-07-17 Thread Paul Johnson
Does anybody have sources for license-compatible WMS servers in Oklahoma? All I am aware of is the USGS data, which is very out of date to the point of inaccuracy around Tulsa and OKC. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org

Re: [Talk-us] Street Naming Conventions

2010-04-07 Thread Paul Johnson
On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 23:36:11 -0600, Val Kartchner wrote: Using USPS abbreviations is the convention used by all commercial online mapping providers that I've seen. (i.e.: maps.google.com, maps.yahoo.com, www.bing.com/maps ) I think that OSM should adopt the same convention. That's a

Re: [Talk-us] Portland, OR datasets might be available

2010-03-21 Thread Paul Johnson
On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 21:44:17 +, dion_dock-Wuw85uim5zDR7s880joybQ wrote: Forgive me if this has been brought up already, but Portland, OR seems to be placing some of its data into the public domain. Is the license suitable for inclusion in OSM? http://www.civicapps.org/about/data-policy

Re: [Talk-us] the meaning of trunk in the US

2010-03-21 Thread Paul Johnson
On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 22:25:40 -0400, Richard Welty wrote: this discussion is triggered by a difference of opinion between myself and NE2 about the classification of US 301 FL A1A between Ocala, Florida and Jackonsville, Florida. Can we get NE2 blocked? He's been torquing the entire US map

Re: [Talk-us] [Warning: Potential Flamewar] Clarifying Interstate Relations

2010-03-12 Thread Paul Johnson
On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 05:16:44 -0500, Nathan Edgars II wrote: Paul Johnson wrote: On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 13:58:38 -0500, Chris Hunter wrote: NE2 has been making a number of questionable edits in the northwest Oregon area recently; I wonder if it's possible to smack 'em upside the head with a clue

Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-newbies] Fwd: Re: Re: Time to retire ref= on ways?

2010-03-12 Thread Paul Johnson
On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 22:36:36 -0500, Zeke Farwell wrote: Part of Paul's original email: * Many bridges and tunnels have signed references that would actually be physical attributes of a way, but with the ref= tag on ways describing the overlying route instead of the way itself, makes it

Re: [Talk-us] proposed first principles for United States road tagging

2010-03-12 Thread Paul Johnson
On Tue, 09 Mar 2010 17:31:19 +, Emilie Laffray wrote: One of the national road that I used regularly in France (N154) is very interesting as you go from what you would consider to just a secondary road to a primary road and back to a secondary road in some locations. The route is giving

Re: [Talk-us] proposed first principles for United States road tagging

2010-03-12 Thread Paul Johnson
On Tue, 09 Mar 2010 21:37:17 -0500, Anthony wrote: How so? I said motorway and/or trunk roads. Any roads which don't qualify as motorways would be trunks. But expressways are trunks. Can you provide an example of an expressway that isn't paved and isn't divided?

Re: [Talk-us] proposed first principles for United States road tagging

2010-03-12 Thread Paul Johnson
On Tue, 09 Mar 2010 21:39:15 -0500, Anthony wrote: If bicycles aren't prohibited, it's not a motorway. Then most of the US doesn't have motorways, by your definition; an idea I'm pretty sure most would find to be absurdist. ___ Talk-us mailing

Re: [Talk-us] proposed first principles for United States road tagging

2010-03-09 Thread Paul Johnson
On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 09:40:47 -0500, Anthony wrote: On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:36 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: The important, worldwide criteria that I'd expect is this: *Motorways are exclusive to motor vehicle traffic. *trunks are the most important roads in a geographic area which

[Talk-us] Time to retire ref= on ways?

2010-03-08 Thread Paul Johnson
It's time to retire ref=* on highway=* ways to describe attributes of the overlying route instead of the physical attributes of the way itself. Using the ref= tag on ways to describe routes simply creates more problems than it solves for many reasons. * The ref=* tag on a way is describing

Re: [Talk-us] Time to retire ref= on ways?

2010-03-08 Thread Paul Johnson
Apollinaris Schoell wrote: On 8 Mar 2010, at 10:10 , Richard Welty wrote: On 3/8/10 12:52 PM, Apollinaris Schoell wrote: fully agree we should keep this target in mind. But first we have to resolve a long list of problems first. there shouldn't be any time when the renderer or other data

Re: [Talk-us] Time to retire ref= on ways?

2010-03-08 Thread Paul Johnson
Chris Hunter wrote: Definitely a good idea! My only concern would be to make sure the way is correctly included in the route relationship(s) before deleting the ref=* tags. A valid concern, and one in which I believe human intervention is required. Maybe a bot could do this? I'd prefer

Re: [Talk-us] Time to retire ref= on ways?

2010-03-08 Thread Paul Johnson
Apollinaris Schoell wrote: fully agree we should keep this target in mind. But first we have to resolve a long list of problems first. there shouldn't be any time when the renderer or other data consumers will be left with completely broken data because step2 was done before step1 osm

Re: [Talk-us] proposed first principles for United States road tagging

2010-03-07 Thread Paul Johnson
Anthony wrote: On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 4:59 PM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 3:28 AM, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote: I think it would be better if greater weight were given to what network a particular road belongs to. Freeway expressway

Re: [Talk-us] proposed first principles for United States road tagging

2010-03-07 Thread Paul Johnson
Anthony wrote: I'm not sure what you mean by work differently. The laws of different states are different, so the information which needs to be presented by the map is different. The maps, therefore, are going to be different. I wouldn't expect the same map to work differently in

Re: [Talk-us] proposed first principles for United States road tagging

2010-03-07 Thread Paul Johnson
Bill Ricker wrote: On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 5:45 AM, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote: I can think of several interstates that are unpaved and undivided, though all of them are in Alaska. wow that's news to me. Are they limited access ? No, not outside Anchorage, and even then, barely

Re: [Talk-us] proposed first principles for United States road tagging

2010-03-07 Thread Paul Johnson
Richard Welty wrote: probably a better example are the unpaved state highways that may be found in some parts of New Hampshire. they do have signage, are they secondary because they're state highways? I would say so. There's the surface tag, too... surface=gravel, surface=unpaved...

Re: [Talk-us] National Forest signs

2010-03-03 Thread Paul Johnson
Alan Mintz wrote: How should one tag the name signs at the entrance to a national forest (e.g. http://sites.google.com/site/am909geo/osm-1/DSCS5938_small.jpg?attredirects=0d=1 )? boundary=national_park is an error according to JOSM rendering rules. landuse=forest renders and icon in

Re: [Talk-us] Use of highway=tertiary

2010-01-05 Thread Paul Johnson
Stellan Lagerstrom wrote: We have a user (mk408) who seems intent on turning 3/4 of all residential streets in the bay area into tertiary. This seems excessive to me. Most of these are just residential streets, not thoroughfares, etc. Views? Here's one changeset:

Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] Zipcode Import

2009-12-21 Thread Paul Johnson
Matthias Julius wrote: Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org writes: Nobody uses the ZIP codes except the post office. Truckers certainly don't use 'em, it's easier to look up the state, city, and street in that order. Many businesses offer to search for local branches by ZIP code. Businesses

Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] Zipcode Import

2009-12-20 Thread Paul Johnson
Jeff Barlow wrote: Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: A Zip Code is a routing code. It doesn't represent geography any more than you can do a 1:1 mapping of iP address to physical location. You can do a Pretty good job by simplifying the data, but zip codes are attributes of addresses,

Re: [Talk-us] Zipcode Import

2009-12-20 Thread Paul Johnson
jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: I have found a nice source of ZipCode boundries, http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/h4ck3rm1k3/diary/8994 do you want to import them? mike How accurate are they? If it's like the TIGER city limit data, I say no. (TIGER is radically wrong about where

Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] Zipcode Import

2009-12-20 Thread Paul Johnson
Anthony wrote: On Sun, Dec 20, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Jeremy Adams mile...@king-nerd.comwrote: One can easily figure out what town someone is from based on their ZIP Code. Is this not the case everywhere? Certainly not. There are lots of zip codes which represent multiple towns, and lots of

Re: [Talk-us] Marking closed bridges

2009-12-16 Thread Paul Johnson
Zeke Farwell wrote: In this case, I'd say the renderer is right. Both access=private and access=no mean essentially the same thing - you aren't allowed there without explicit approval. In the case of access=no, that approval happens to come from a government agency, but I see no reason

Re: [Talk-us] Marking closed bridges

2009-12-16 Thread Paul Johnson
Randy wrote: Zeke Farwell wrote: access=seasonal makes sense to me in conjunction with the date_on, and date_off tags on the wiki. On and off aren't clear to me. Does on mean open or closed? Probably open, but it isn't obvious, and might lose something in a language translation. I think

Re: [Talk-us] Marking closed bridges

2009-12-16 Thread Paul Johnson
Zeke Farwell wrote: The Crown Point bridge is currently closed. Soon it will be demolished. Then construction on a new one will begin. Because this is the usual cycle, I think the rendering that is used for roads under construction (dashed

Re: [Talk-us] Marking closed bridges

2009-12-16 Thread Paul Johnson
Richard Welty wrote: On 12/3/09 11:27 PM, Richard Welty wrote: On 12/3/09 11:00 PM, David Fawcett wrote: I agree that it would be good to have a standard answer. I am thinking that the tag should be used for both symbology and connectivity. i'm going to try out the suggested

Re: [Talk-us] Marking closed bridges

2009-12-16 Thread Paul Johnson
David Fawcett wrote: I am trying to figure out how to mark up a foot bridge that is closed. The bridge is still standing, but it is gated off because it is unsafe. To me, it doesn't make sense to remove the bridge, like in the case of a bridge that has been washed out. The bridge is still

Re: [Talk-us] Marking closed bridges

2009-12-16 Thread Paul Johnson
Jeff Barlow wrote: Zeke Farwell ezeki...@gmail.com wrote: There are many roads through the mountains in Vermont that are generally closed from Nov 1st through May 30th each year due to snow. These could be tagged as: closed = Nov-May or closed = yearly closure_dates = Nov-May The hard

Re: [Talk-us] TIGER considered harmful

2009-11-19 Thread Paul Johnson
Christopher Covington wrote: On Sun, 2009-11-15 at 10:59 -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: Dave Hansen wrote: 2) The TIGER import violates one of the most basic principals of OSM: Abbreviations: DO NOT DO IT. I really don't understand this. If the United States Postal Service and the Census

Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Karlruhe Scheme addressing ways from 2009 TIGER data

2009-11-19 Thread Paul Johnson
Dave Hansen wrote: On Mon, 2009-11-16 at 15:05 +, Andy Allan wrote: So please, turn away from imports and work on getting mappers in charge, especially out pounding the streets. The outcome will be much, much better in the end, and that end will come much, much quicker. I think TIGER

[Talk-us] TIGER considered harmful

2009-11-15 Thread Paul Johnson
Dave Hansen wrote: If we can come up with a scheme for getting the addressing imported in a sane fashion and the consensus is that people want it done that way, it'll get imported. There are still quite a few squeaky wheels that like to grumble about TIGER, but I haven't heard a single

Re: [Talk-us] Super Wal-Mart Tag

2009-11-15 Thread Paul Johnson
Matthias Julius wrote: I consider numbered tags to be messy. Nodes inside the building is not better unless you are really producing a map of the building's internals. How do you figure? Strip malls typically only have one building but all ammeneties are accessable from the outside. And

Re: [Talk-us] No right turn on red

2009-11-13 Thread Paul Johnson
Owlman wrote: On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 5:39 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 6:29 PM, Dale Puch dale.p...@gmail.com wrote: I would have to side with not tagging them. This is a timming restriction, not a navigation one. Navigation is not the only purpose of OSM

Re: [Talk-us] No right turn on red

2009-11-13 Thread Paul Johnson
Alan Mintz wrote: California being one of those more permissive states, I agree with the annoyance at those who don't know it's legal to turn right on red (or the other cases) unless specifically prohibited. Because it is rare to see this prohibition, I believe it is important to tag and

Re: [Talk-us] Tagging next exit services

2009-11-13 Thread Paul Johnson
Alex S. wrote: Paul Johnson wrote: return-to-where-you-came-from [sign] (at state lines to send you back out of Oregon), etc). U-Turn Route - there are quite a few signed u-turn routes in Washington state, too. I have questioned (myself) whether these should be explicitly defined in OSM

Re: [Talk-us] No right turn on red

2009-11-13 Thread Paul Johnson
Alex S. wrote: Nakor wrote: Anthony wrote: Five other states, namely Alaska, Idaho, Michigan, Oregon and Washington, allow left turns on red even from a two-way street. Thanks. I had always wondered if this is allowed here in MI as only a few people do it at the one intersection like

Re: [Talk-us] No right turn on red

2009-11-13 Thread Paul Johnson
Anthony wrote: On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 1:40 PM, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote: Owlman wrote: On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 5:39 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 6:29 PM, Dale Puch dale.p...@gmail.com wrote: I would have to side with not tagging them

Re: [Talk-us] Tagging next exit services

2009-11-12 Thread Paul Johnson
Chris Hunter wrote: Tag the first node of the offramp as highway=motorway_junction. As far as the sign itself goes, there's a proposed relationship for signs in the UK and EU at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:destination_sign that may be of some help. Note that destination

Re: [Talk-us] Tagging next exit services

2009-11-12 Thread Paul Johnson
Dale Puch wrote: Personally I do not think the signs should be put in OSM, just the actual POI's are tagged. Agreed. Another factor is that the US MUTCD only defines a very small number of specific services nationwide (food, lodging, camping, telephone, gasoline, diesel), while other states

Re: [Talk-us] Super Wal-Mart Tag

2009-11-12 Thread Paul Johnson
Thea Clay wrote: Hi, I have a random question... does anyone have suggestions for how I would correctly tag a Super Wal-Mart? I read through the wiki but there didn't appear to be a tag that fit. The store in question has a 1.) a full grocery store with bakery/deli/produce/dry goods,

Re: [Talk-us] Tagging next exit services

2009-11-12 Thread Paul Johnson
Randy wrote: Dale Puch wrote: Personally I do not think the signs should be put in OSM, just the actual POI's are tagged. There may be reasons to put in signs, I just do not think this is one of them. Dale -- Dale Puch Don't forget the intent of the requester's original question, i.e.,

Re: [Talk-us] No right turn on red

2009-11-12 Thread Paul Johnson
Alan Mintz wrote: How should one tag a no-right-turn-on-red-light restriction? Like other turn restrictions, with restriction=no_right_turn_on_red? I think this is going too far into depth for any real navigation purpose, I'd say skip it as the restriction lasts for only seconds at a time,

Re: [Talk-us] NY Bicycle Routes

2009-11-10 Thread Paul Johnson
Richard Welty wrote: On 10/30/09 6:59 PM, Sam Vekemans wrote: Hi, how are you tagging state-wide cycle routes? I know we have lcn= for local cycle routes (named not named) rcn=for regional cycle routes (ie metro area) then there's ncn=for nation wide but there's no scn (state cycle

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