sted, the instructions
"keep to outside lane and wait for clear traffic in the three lanes
coming the other way" could probably be inferred, but I doubt that
stopping the the fast lane would be appreciated by other drivers?
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&hl=en&mra=ls&sll=55.85277,-4.26733&sspn=0.015273,0.029011&ie=UTF8&ll=55.855793,-4.268575&spn=0.007636,0.014505&t=h&z=16
Me thinks it is time for a hall of shame on the OSM site, with links
like this and hopefully the correct solution on OSM?
--
Lester
anes=2 where there is
no doubt, and road junctions where several differing routes through are
allowed will remain a problem, but detailing the lanes of a way where a
complex junction is involved seems an essential area to come to some
agreement? With micromapping the lanes being the
currently documented, and neither are the
guidelines for creating a multiple way route and flaging it as a single
element :(
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ro view would need the
'path=left', 'path=both' information as tags is questionable?
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Mod
was a "band" word & anybody quoting it was given a
> slap on the wrist & told to go & stand on the naughty step :-)
Lots of streets around here, but the only things banned would be
vehicles on the pedestrian only ones ;)
Anyway
Top down view - single way with lots of t
Roy Wallace wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 11:15 PM, Lester Caine wrote:
>>> Can I check? Are there people here who are suggesting that, in my case,
>>> they want to draw all four ways (yes, I know the footpath hasn't been
>>> mapped yet) as a single way
can
exist simply as a POI tag, or as fine detail, perhaps even with parking
bays. The point is to make things transparently scalable. At the
'county' level you don't need the shape of the car park, just a tag to
it's presence so you can indicate where they are. Same with any
d details like two or three deck bridges also require a little more
information, although the layer model would at least keep cars off the
train level ;)
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eted as applying to the
relation level, but then latter additions require all of that 'tidying'
to be undone manually to put the correct data back :(
And this seems to be the case here?
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John Smith wrote:
> 2009/9/28 Lester Caine :
>> And this seems to be the case here?
>
> The problem is the ways are the best place to tag the ABS information,
> and the ABS data just happens to follow rivers, islands, railways and
> roads and so on which is very useful wher
Konrad Skeri wrote:
> Time to end this debate
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/boolean_values
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/boolean_values
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27;rules' ( at least that
is my understanding - based on feedback - since I even have trouble with
English sometimes ;) )
( Egil - a little aside, while a check box for boolean would be nice,
there is still an element of 'NULL' - that is in addition to setting a
boolean tag, one
Andrew Errington wrote:
> On Mon, October 5, 2009 15:36, Lester Caine wrote:
>
>> ( Egil - a little aside, while a check box for boolean would be nice,
>> there is still an element of 'NULL' - that is in addition to setting a
>> boolean tag, one still needs to de
ide of
road'. The field boundaries, and ramblers paths that they follow instead
of the roadway need to be consistently tagged?
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ght.
Rather than all these separate elements, tag values should form part of
the tagkey object, and descriptions can be added at any level. I need to
find the link to a good example, but
one or a series
of short posts for excluding or diverting motor vehicles fr
David Earl wrote:
> On 05/10/2009 11:43, Lester Caine wrote:
>> Rather than all these separate elements, tag values should form part
>> of the tagkey object, and descriptions can be added at any level. I
>> need to find the link t
ld be the norm and
I have no doubt at some point even roads will be represented by areas,
BUT with a macro view that presents things as a simple 'way based' view.
> Of course, nothing is ever final ...
With ever more people adding data, the 'macro' view is straining to
conta
John Smith wrote:
> 2009/10/7 Lester Caine :
>> Mike Harris wrote:
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> Despite the well-argued views of a minority, I am persuaded by the equally
>>> well-argued views of the (considerable) majority who favour option (b).
>>>
&g
ere.
We still have not come to any consensus on the general points of mapping
and who is in charge so a dictate from above TELLING us to move to a new
list seems somewhat out of place?
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, rather than completely
screwing up even the forum type lists would have been a much better use
of peoples time :(
There is not currently a single solution, but I see no reason why a good
email based list can't simply add a web based interactive archive as well?
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elp here is if we actually had agreement on how
this level of micro-mapping is handled anyway ;)
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Mo
and get the same results.
And how many of their competitors would also be linked to that site via
google's linked advertising? OSM simply has no 'baggage' to worry about!
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> wget. The poor machine can barely cope with serving real users without
> also having to handle that.
What database is the wiki running on? My own sites I simply have a backup of
that running and rsync the backup along with the images directory to the backup
machine. Very little load on e
can't for the life of me think what sort of research would require a
> copy of the wiki though.
If a suitable backup is available, then we can provide mirror sites. The
problem
of cause is that editing needs to be restricted to the main site, but even that
can be catered for with care
tags on the linear feature for routing purposes, but the
ability to draw a road in the same detail as a golf course is a no brainer?
Higher level views can then pull out nodes for hospital, golf course and road
grid while higher zoom levels can how acurate fine detail?
--
Lester C
Roy Wallace wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 5:49 PM, Lester Caine wrote:
>> The bottom line is that while adding 'width' tags all the way along a road
>> may
>> be a practical half way house, other area features are not handled the same
>> way
>> s
verges, but what is the route passable by a pushchair or wheelchair?
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their correct
designation . around here it is the footpaths which do not follow directly
the 'roadway' and many of them are 'pavements' where cycling is specifically
banned.
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the 'paths' that I need to describe.
They are really large areas of grass which can be walked across to get to other
points, rather than a 'tag' on the side of a near by road using the road
to
do the 'pedestrian' routing is simply wrong but so also is
y?
This is more than adequate for routing purposes, and any finer detail really
needs the areas of all of the parts that make up the roadway?
At what point to you switch from 'dual carriageway' to 'divided road' ?
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Conta
geway
Seconded - I think in most of these cases, the connection to the other roads
dictates that they need to be split and correctly join other ways. 5 for
example
would seem to be best described as a 'roundabout' as it certainly looks like it
is for turning around.
3 as actually just
'copyright' simply does not do - and is an area where there is NO case law to
fall back on? SO we need something which can then become acceptable case law?
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no reason to remove the existing format, and I see little point adding
tags for something that is hiding the micro view?
SOME roads do need a 'divider' tag, but only to add 'white line' and other
'micro' data that can't be included by areas or other means. The c
t the end is handled much easier with a simple
dual carriage way? And many of the other examples need the same end cases. So
at
what level does a simple 'divided' tag actually work in practice? However
'double white lines' on a single carriage way road IS a divider that needs
Steve Bennett wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 12:30 AM, Lester Caine <mailto:les...@lsces.co.uk>> wrote:
>
> I think my only problem with 'divided' is "At what point do you
> apply it?" The
> samples being shown are quite clearly - on t
are kept separate from vehicles
also requires additional ways. Simply adding yet more tags for something which
is not part of the actual roadway is another 'macro' bodge which in reality
requires at least a separate way ... )
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-
Co
you.
>
> Isn't that in essence what licenses are for?
That is the entire crux of this problem ... CAN we trust commercial
organizations with big bank balances to play fair. I think the answer has to be
'NO' so we need the DATA protected a little better .
--
Lester
Elizabeth Dodd wrote:
> so we don't need imported data?
Only where it is actually adding information. When it is overwriting data that
may well be more accurate - then no we don't ?
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adding the REAL fine detail of ways that do not actually physically form part
of
the 'accompanying' road. This sort of 'shorthand' should not replace mapping
the
real situation on the ground ESPECIALLY where the cycleway ( or
sidewalk/footpath ) is not physically part
round. So really all that is required a
relation
between the A and B views of the world?
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Model Enginee
d party' ways also needs to co-exist with actually mapping the cycleway. I
don't see the creation of tags which then conflict with lower level mapping as
an improvement. BUT if the tags relate to a shorthand FOR the lower level
details and do not prevent actually ad
Steve Bennett wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 4:46 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer
> mailto:dieterdre...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> 2010/1/2 Lester Caine mailto:les...@lsces.co.uk>>
>
> Provided that this does not result in REMOVING ways that are
Claus Hindsgaul wrote:
>
>
> 2010/1/3 Lester Caine mailto:les...@lsces.co.uk>>
>
> It is however a very good example of where people have taken the
> trouble to
> ACTUALLY map reality and their efforts have been destroyed! At the
> end of the
&g
r how do you combine the information from a lower view which
shows the fine detail which is REQUIRED at that level into the higher level
views?
Claus - It's not a simple matter of 'aiding the choice between' - the more
fundamental problem is how do we get both to co exist? If some
a 'road map' or 'cycleway map', then that is
not a problem, but it should not then prevent the fine detail from being
maintained below it?
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ve on
another, offsetting them in the area occupied by the steps gets around the
editor limitations?
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h target.
Micro-mapping the physical areas on the ground is the ultimate, but showing
separate pedestrian and cycle crossing points, and linking them to foot and
bike
only routes is something of a mess currently?
> I can see why this sort of nonsense would put a commercial router off
> - it m
he data
set, nodes may well be on different 'layers'! )
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t lower zoom levels. When zooming in, a '4 lane road' should
become 4 individual ways before coming an area with fine detail of lane
markings, hard shoulder, and central reservation.
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trying to
work
from lots of replicated data is just wrong? And creating an area covering the
whole fine detail and working from that is also wrong? 'big wide boulevard' is
the entity, and just needs a high level tag, and the lower level detail should
just reference that?
--
road structures and property boundaries set up our own fork with tools that
allow things that the simplify everything camp don't thing we should have?
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features. And the
Idea that natural=water should wrap what are quite clearly man made
waterway features just reinforces that and while the effects are small,
many parts of the world even 'coastline' is now a man made construction.
But the 'tags' list is probably the p
a even if we currently tag it as
leisure=marina without any agreement as to just what area that should cover.
It's the insistence that water only applies to natural elements which
just does not fit properly, and man_made=reservoir while much more
accurate does not fit in with a consistent
waterway data
structure given all of the secondary tagging to
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:waterway%3Driver and the like.
But where lakes - natural and man-made - have navigation routes through
many of the waterway tags also apply but this has been another area of
discussion to map t
e thoroughfare elements may be additional to the postcode itself,
so 10 characters is never enough.
Open Location Code lacks the ability to handle multi-story housing. It
only gets you to the apartment block. This is an area where OSM still
needs some more work.
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Lester Caine - G8HFL
--
coding system' for the physical location can be used to display the
raw numbers? But for readability, just as OLC does, one uses the town
and country and simply provide a GPS location limited to that area. A
bit like 'national grid' in the UK
> Cheerio John
>
> On 11
to be stored in the database.
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Even something as simple as identifying the local time given some sort
of location identifier becomes unreliable when local variations of
language and custom are added in.
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gt;
> How about musical notation? We could sing our parcels to their
> destinations. ;-)
Or even more radical ... just use numbers for time and location :)
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s ... and currently OSMAnd is simply wrong for the UK!
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On 02/11/16 08:41, Paul Johnson wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 2, 2016 at 3:00 AM, Lester Caine <mailto:les...@lsces.co.uk>> wrote:
>
> On 02/11/16 00:57, john whelan wrote:
> > If OSMand etc treat them differently then we may not be showing the
> > shortest ro
likes of yahoo and google ... just
leave working systems alone ...
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the android phone, something that is becoming
worse rather than better. Even driving down the M5 I get gaps in
reception, so everything has to be local, which OSMAnd does a good job
of for most things ... just not B/unclassified roads :(
Docker is yet another infrastructure tool to get ones head arou
On 08/11/16 18:54, Richard Fairhurst wrote:
> FWIW, I like the "-scape" suffix, e.g. OpenStreetscape:
Get's my vote Capital 'S' though OpenStreetScape
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On 30/03/17 18:38, Lester Caine wrote:
> Kind regards, Lester Caine
*I* did not sent that email! Which is why it has another email address
since forging my own would fall fowl of my spf record!
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On 30/03/17 19:47, Lester Caine wrote:
> On 30/03/17 18:38, Lester Caine wrote:
>> Kind regards, Lester Caine
>
> *I* did not sent that email! Which is why it has another email address
> since forging my own would fall fowl of my spf record!
OK anybody know who to repor
t no idea what the tool is supposed to do :)
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Rainb
me and it would not
take much for them to take box="w,s,e,n" as an alternative input. But
the range of 'standards' for passing parameters is the problem here not
simply what is being passed. With each OS and programming language
having it's own style of working there is
you may need to swap between languages ...
> On 22/04/2017 15:45, Lester Caine wrote:
>> On 22/04/17 15:28, Dave F wrote:
>>> As they're parameters, the format can be standardised for the end user &
>>> any programme should be able to sort out syntax behin
Importance can
depend on why you are using the road? Things like 'speed_limit' need to
be handled before adding another 'classification' tag?
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I see no way to harmonization world wide. Even for just 'trunk'. The
'rules' for a country or area need to cover the differences that apply
in that area? Just as the routing rules need to know France is Left Hand
and UK is Right ... with different default speed limits.
>
7;s not just OSM routing
that gives problems, other routing engines are showing similar detours
around local 'shortcuts' ... so even within a single country
harmonization is a problem ...
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to the M5 and again 'shortest'
picks the quick route but then avoids the M5 as well :) Interesting ...
checking OSRM is getting it right so I need to check OSMAND again on that.
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On 22/08/17 17:19, Philip Barnes wrote:
>> called differently, but this is it:
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:maxspeed:practical
>>
> Isn"t that going to be rather subjective?
And will depend on 'time of day' ;)
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... what it should be using is a percentage,
so 5% would be tidy and 10% pushing where a traffic camera would be
'within tolerance'. Since speedometers are only required to be 'within
10%' currently ... you get the idea ;)
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le Evesham area just
grinds to a halt. Stratford is just as bad and the new roads planned
will make things even worse rather than helping. We don't stand much
chance of designing a harmonized routing process when the planners can't
even fix the problems they create :(
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in UK trunk road :(
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x27;fastest' route
for UK rural areas - and get my blue motorway, green trunk and red
primary road back :)
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one :)
My old dedicated sat nav did a good job as well as handling hands free
calls on the N900 mobile. Modern options are going down hill fast and
can't even do the basics! Simple reception of a signal would be nice to
have once again ...
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took a couple
of minutes to find the right location to see what data was in OSM for
the collage and some material that has not yet made it into wikidata
came up.
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edata become a more
reliable source of such data. Just a single link to a substantial set of
additional data.
So ... where does 'brand:' come from? Should this not simply be 'link:'?
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On 27/09/17 14:40, Andy Mabbett wrote:
> On 27 September 2017 at 14:28, Lester Caine wrote:
>
>> wikidata provides a section which documents a range of LINKS which
>> identify the same object on other databases. It would be nice if there
>> was a stable identity on OS
On 27/09/17 16:48, Andy Mabbett wrote:
> On 27 September 2017 at 16:06, Lester Caine wrote:
>
>>> While it is not yet complete, in what way is Wikdiata failing to be
>>> sufficiently reliable?
>>
>> Much of the work I did on wikipedia was stripped for all s
tion pane (using the default desktop view)
AH - so it's stripped when you grab a printed copy of the article :(
There may be a link to Wikimedia Commons material, but not to wikidata
material in external links ... that is where I expected to find it ;)
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del. It is why I think
'another' cross-reference tool may be more appropriate with OSM and
wikipedia/wikidata simply being sources. THAT requires OSM to have a
'unique id' one can use to cross reference though :(
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ts of objects, which can then be linked to bot's which
manage primary data such as the NSG's update reports adding new streets
and changes to location hierarchy. But I should prefer that this layer
is part of OSM rather than a third party service.
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d displaying location data but it's
the ID of premises such as birth, death and activity locations that
overlay all the objects I'm working with. Premises listed on the UK
national census are a typical fairly reliable source I'm working with
daily ...
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---
Highgate cemetery. wikidata
should probably have an object for that with links to Highgate cemetery
and OSM could have a complete set of all gravestones on the site, or
link to an external copy of that list.
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a during the UK group push on it there were often a
lot of corrections made to get the right 'set' of data on a school
object. While only a small number of objects were actually wrong, that
is enough to justify needing a manual cross check of some sort.
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Lester Caine - G8HFL
--
f the place data that overlays
that, so OSM only needs to use the wikidata namespace for all of that
material. I don't think that the idea of 'bot' space actually fits into
that model as it is the unique ID that is fixed and 'bot' tags either
need to be acces
is an independent and unrelated project
with it's own agenda ...
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s
from the wikidata bot's? Even if it is OSM bots that are doing the
processing. The annoying thing here is that the hierarchy of places that
wikidata provides could be useful to OSM searches ... but it still needs
the likes of Nominatim and/or GeoNames to cross reference that data
which provi
the same object class and is nearby" is not very
> good and error prone. This could be a human-curated process, e.g. ask
> the user to help deciding which Wikipedia articles does this object
> represent, and offer some likely candidates, but it shouldn't be
> automatic. I
ntry.
What is currently missing is a clean set of guidelines for using any
third party reference?
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may not be 'managed' ... and are
combined with 'grassland' and other natural or managed landcover. We can
define landuse=park, but that park can have a lot of detail contained
within it ... We are looking to render blocks of trees, grass, and other
objects how ever created?
--
Le
anning authorities have
requested as perhaps a barrier or simply as an amenity ... or has been
preserved as it has been there for hundreds of years ...
We need to build a proper hierarchy of LANDUSE into which more detail
can be added if required?
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, rather than implying different interpretations on existing tags
depending on where they are used?
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Model E
On 02/11/17 10:34, Warin wrote:
> On 02-Nov-17 09:21 PM, Lester Caine wrote:
>> On 02/11/17 09:40, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
>>> ONE tag to say what? You are still owing an answer to this.
>> I think the problem is similar to the multiple areas problem. There are
>>
On 21/11/17 04:02, Marc Gemis wrote:
> I'll agree with Yuri that is has to be the choice of the mapper to
> work in a specific region and not the challenge creator.
I stopped using MapRoulette simply because it was taking me well out of
my comfort zone ...
--
Lester Ca
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